[♪♪] >> GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO KENTUCKY TONIGHT.

I'M RENEE SHAW.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

OUR TOPIC TONIGHT: STATE AND NATIONAL POLITICS AND POLITICAL DISCOURSE.

THE SHOOTING DEATH OF CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST CHARLIE KIRK LAST WEDNESDAY IS PROMPTING A RENEWED DEBATE ABOUT THE TONE AND LANGUAGE OF MODERN AMERICAN POLITICS.

AMONG THE QUESTIONS PEOPLE ARE ASKING: WHERE IS THE DIVIDING LINE BETWEEN LEGITIMATE CRITICISM AND HATE SPEECH?

WHAT KIND OF LANGUAGE GOES “TOO FAR?” GIVEN THE INTENSE RESPONSE TO KIRK’S DEATH, WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?

WE WILL ALSO TALK ABOUT OTHER POLITICAL MATTERS, INCLUDING KENTUCKY’S 2026 U.S. SENATE RACE.

WE’RE JOINED IN LEXINGTON BY: AMY WICKLIFFE, A REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST AND PARTNER WITH MCCARTHY STRATEGIC SOLUTIONS; JONATHAN MILLER, A DEMOCRAT AND AN ATTORNEY WITH FROST BROWN TODD; AND TRES WATSON, A REPUBLICAN CONSULTANT, FOUNDER OF CAPITOL REINS PR, AND HOST OF THE KENTUCKY POLITICS WEEKLY PODCAST; AND IN OUR LOUISVILLE STUDIO: SHERMAN BROWN, A DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST AND PARTNER WITH MCCARTHY STRATEGIC SOLUTIONS.

WE WANT TO HEAR FROM YOU.

YOU CAN SEND YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS BY X — FORMERLY TWITTER -- AT PUB AFFAIRS KET.

SEND AN EMAIL TO K-Y TONIGHT AT K-E-T DOT O-R-G. OR USE THE WEB FORM AT K-E-T DOT O-R-G SLASH K-Y TONIGHT.

OR YOU CAN CALL 1-800-494-7605.

WELCOME TO ALL OUR GUESTS.

BECAUSE WE OFTEN SAY THAT "KENTUCKY TONIGHT" IS THE TABLE WHERE THE HARD CONVERSATIONS ARE HAD.

AND THIS IS INDEED, GOING TO BE A HARD CONVERSATION AND OUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS GO OUT TO THE FAMILY OF CHARLIE KIRK, OF COURSE AND ALL OF THOSE WHO HAVE SUFFERED GUN VIOLENCE AND OTHER POLITICAL ACTS OF VIOLENCE.

SO AS WE VIEW THIS DEBATE NOW, IN LIGHT OF WHAT'S HAPPENED IN THE LAST FIVE TO SEVEN DAYS, IS THERE ROOM, JONATHAN MILLER FOR TWO THINGS TO BE TRUE?

THAT WE CAN DENOUNCE OUT RIGHT THE VIOLENCE THE POLITICAL VIOLENCE THAT CLAIMED THE LIFE OF THIS CRIST WHILE NOT SILENCING SPEAK THAT IS CRITICAL OF THE SPEECH HE USED?

>> ABSOLUTELY AND THAT IS WHAT THE FIRST AMENDMENT IS ABOUT AND WHAT CHARLIE KIRK WAS ABOUT IN TERMS OF TRYING TO STIMULATE DEBATE AND IMPASSIONED DEBATE.

THE QUESTION FOR THE COUNTRY RIGHT NOW, I THINK, WE ARE TO PLAGUER RISE FROM CHARLIE KIRK WE ARE AT A TURNING POINT AND WILL WE FOLLOW THE PATH SET BY FOLKS LIKE THE GOVERNOR OF UTAH, CALLING FOR TEMPERS TO BE AABATED AND TRY AND FIND MORE COMMON GROUND OR FOLLOW THE PATH OF TOO MANY POLITICIANS OVER THE LAST WEEK WHO HAVE ENGAGED IN BLAME SHIFTING AND POINT SCORING AND TRYING TO USE THIS AS A WAY TO BUILDUP THEMSELVES OR TEAR OTHER PEOPLE DOWN.

IF IT'S THE LATTER PATH, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TOUGH MONTHS AHEAD.

>> Renee: WHERE DO YOU SEE THINGS, AMY WICKLIFFE?

>> I THINK WHERE WE GO FROM HERE IS ON US, ALL OF US.

TO QUOTE THE GOVERNOR COX AGAIN, I THINK HE WAS THE PERSON WE NEEDED IN THAT MOMENT WITH HOW HE COMMUNICATED TO THE NATION.

AS HE SAID, THIS IS WHERE WE CHOOSE DO WE ESCALATE?

OR DO WE FIND THE OFF-RAMP?

AND I'M VERY CONCERNED IF WE DO NOT FIND THAT OFF-RAMP VERY SOON THAT OUR NATION THERE'S A LOT AT STAKE.

WHAT WE'VE SEEN IS A STAIN ON OUR DEMOCRACY.

RIGHT?

AND I'M VERY WORRIED THAT IF WE DO NOT HAVE LEADERS FROM THE TOP DOWN AND THAT INCLUDES THE WHITE HOUSE ALL THE WAY DOWN TO OUR LOCAL GOVERNMENTS CALL FOR TAKING THE RHETORIC DOWN AND TAKING THE TEMPERATURE DOWN AND WHAT MATTERS IN THIS WORLD AND RECOGNIZING THAT EACH OF US ARE MOTHERS, SISTERS, BROTHERS, DADS, WE'RE HUMAN.

AND THE MOMENT THAT WE FORGET THAT AND THE MOMENT WE FORGET WE ARE ALL AMERICANS, IS VERY TROUBLING FOR ME TO WATCH.

>> Renee: WE'RE SEEING A LOT DEVELOP TODAY, TRES WATSON WE'RE HEARING OF FIRINGS OF PEOPLE FROM THEIR PLACES OF EMPLOYMENT BECAUSE OF HOW THEY'VE RESPONDED AND WE ARE JUST CONCERNED MANY ARE, ABOUT THE DIRECTION OF WHERE WE GO FROM HERE.

HOW DO YOU SIZE UP WHERE WE ARE AT THIS PARTICULAR MOMENT?

>> IT'S HARD TO WALK BACK FROM WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE OF SOMETHING THAT MAKES THIS COUNTRY GREAT WHICH IS THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

NO OTHER NATION HAS A FIRST AMENDMENT QUITE LIKE OURS QUITE AS BROAD AT OURS THAT ALSO MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO STEP IN WHEN THINGS MAKE -- MAY GET OUT OF HAND.

FREE SPEECH DOES NOT MEAN CONSEQUENCE FREE SPEECH.

YOU NEED TO BE COGNIZANT BUT AS A SOCIETY WE NEED TO DRAW A LINE BETWEEN WHAT IS CELEBRATING THE DEATH OF AN INDIVIDUAL, AND WHAT IS BEING CRITICAL OF AWHAT HE SAID.

ONE PROBLEM HERE IS AN ISSUE WITH SOCIAL MEDIA SPECIFICALLY BUT FREE SPEECH IN GENERAL.

ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IS KNOWING WHEN TO USE AND IT AND NOT TO USE IT.

IF SOMETHING DIED YOU DON'T LOSE YOUR FACEBOOK ACCOUNT IF YOU DON'T TWEET.

YOU CAN SAY NOTHING AT ALL AND THAT IS PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE.

AND SOME PEOPLE NEED TO LEARN THAT LESSON.

BUT WE'LL TALK THROUGH THE NIGHT ABOUT THE EFFECT OF SOCIAL MEDIA WHERE WE'RE AT.

MIKE TYSON HAD A GREAT QUOTE A LOT OF THESE PEOPLE ON SOCIAL MEDIA THEY NEVER GOT PUNCHED IN THE FACE BEFORE.

AND I THINK YOU HAVE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO BECAUSE THEY ARE EITHER SHELTERED IN REAL-LIFE OR THEY ARE SHELTERED ON-LINE, THEY DON'T INTERACT WITH PEOPLE OF OTHER BELIEFS AND OTHER PARTIES AND IT ENCOURAGES THEM TO SAY THINGS ON-LINE THAT ARE INFLAMMATORY AND DOESN'T GIVE THEM AN ANCHOR IN REALITY WHEN THEY HEAR SOMEONE FROM THE OTHER SIDE.

I'M CONCERNED ABOUT WHERE WE'RE AT.

>> Renee: GOOD POINTS THERE AND TO YOU SHERMAN BROWN IN LOUISVILLE.

BECAUSE I HEARD THE PHRASE TODAY IN A CONVERSATION ABOUT KEYBOARD COWBOYS.

PEOPLE CAN MAKE THESE INFLAMMATORY REMARKS ON THE LEFT OR RIGHT AND THERE DOESN'T SEEM TO BE CONSEQUENCE FOR THAT EXCEPT THE PRICE WE ALL PAY FOR THAT.

PICK UP ON THAT POINT THAT TRES WATSON WAS MAKING AND EXPRESS YOUR THOUGHTS WHERE WE ARE AT THIS PARTICULAR TIME?

>> I THINK IS THIS AN INTERESTING POSITION AND A PLACE WE FIND OURSELVES.

I THINK ABOUT THE INTERNET IN GENERAL IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE WHEN PEOPLE FIRST WERE GETTING ON, IT WAS VERY MUCH A PLACE THAT WAS A PLACE WHERE YOU WOULD FIND PEOPLE AND BRING US TOGETHER.

IF MORE INFORMATION AND I KNOW MORE INFORMATION ABOUT TRES AND AMY AND JONATHAN I LEARN ABOUT THEIR INTERESTS AND EXPERIENCE AND IT SHOULD BRING US TOGETHER.

AND WHAT HAS REALLY HAPPENED AS FAR AS THE INTERNET IS CONCERNED YOU FIND OUT OKAY I CAN SEND SOMETHING OUT AND SAY SOMETHING, AND FIVE PEOPLE AGREE WITH ME I HAVE FIVE NEW FRIENDS AND THEY CAN BE ONE PERSON SPREAD THROUGHOUT ALL OVER THE PLACE.

THIS IS VERY MUCH THE SAME WITH THE SPEECH WE'RE HEARING FROM DIFFERENT PLACES IS NOT THAT IT IS A POPULAR THING, NOT THAT IT'S EVEN A POPULOUS TYPE OF A CONVERSATION, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MINORITY SMALL GROUPS OF PEOPLE ON BOTH ENDS OF THE SPECTRUM WHO ARE THE LOUDEST, WHO ARE TAKING A LOT AND SAYING A LOT OF THINGS.

SOMETIMES INFLAMMATORY.

AND THINGS THAT PEOPLE DISAGREE WITH.

I THINK IF SOMEONE DOES SAY SOMETHING YOU DISAGREE WITH YOU HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO SAY YOU DISAGREE WITH THEM.

IF IT IS RACIST YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO SAY SOMETHING IS RACIST AND THE TIMING ON THAT IS ACCURATE.

THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY IT IMMEDIATELY BUT WHEN PEOPLE START TALKING ABOUT THINGS OUT THERE OR A PERSON SPECIFICALLY, YOU KNOW, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO SAY THE THINGS YOU NEED TO SAY IF THAT IS WHAT I ARE FEELING AND COMING FROM AND YOUR EXPERIENCE.

>> Renee: I GUESS MAYBE THE LINE IS CALLING SOMETHING RACIST OR FASCIST AND NOT CALLING THE PERSON A RACIST OR A FASCIST.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND MY DISTINCTION THERE?

DOES THAT MAKE SENSE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Renee: TARGETING THE SPEECH BUT NOT THE PERSON.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

I THINK AND YEAH, WE'VE HAD A DELAY HERE, I THINK THE POLICY ITSELF THAT IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

IF SOMEONE IS TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING, WHERE THE CONVERSATION STARTS YOU ARE TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHERE SOMEONE COMES FROM.

RIGHT?

IF THEY ARE EXPLAINING THEIR SITUATION WHY THEY ARE FOR A POLICY, IF YOU FEEL THAT IT, YOU KNOW, AS THE INTENT IS TO HURT SOMEONE EXPLAINING AND ASKING THAT QUESTION AND TRYING TO START OUT THE CONVERSATION OF IS THIS WHERE IS THE PERSON COMING FROM?

ASKING QUESTIONS I DON'T THINK IS A BAD THING RATHER THAN JUMPING TO CONCLUSION OR ASSUMPTION THAT SOMEONE IS AUTOMATIC THINKING THAT WAY OR THAT'S THE REASON FOR IT IS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHERE THEY ARE COMING FROM.

I DON'T THINK WE GIVE EACH OTHER THAT CREDIT NOW.

PEOPLE ARE IMMEDIATELY IF YOU HEAR I HAVE A D BEHIND MY NAME, I ALREADY AGREE WITH AMY AND TRES NOT JONATHAN AND SHERMAN BECAUSE THEY ARE DEMOCRATS.

A LOT OF TIMES I AGREE WITH AMY AND THAT IS A GOOD THING.

AND I AGREE WITH TRES.

THESE ARE THE WAY WE CAN HAVE THESE CONVERSATIONS AND FIND MORE COMMON GROUND BECAUSE WE FIND THINGS WE CAN WORK ON TOGETHER.

AND I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING WE NEED TO GET BACK TO AS FAR AS THE WAY WE OPERATE AND JUST COMMUNICATE IN OUR LIVES.

JUST NOT IMMEDIATELY ASSUMING BECAUSE THAT PERSON HAS A D BEHIND THEIR NAME OR R OR I BEHIND THEIR NAME THAT I'M NOT GOING TO AGREE WITH THAT PORN.

>> Renee: GOOD POINT.

>> I WANT TO ECHO WHAT WAS SAID MY FATHER GAVE ME GOOD ADVICE WHEN I STARTED IN POLITICSFY WAS ANGRY AND IF SOMEONE CHALLENGED ME, IF I REALLY GOT ME UPSET THE BEST THING TO DO IS SLEEP ON IT.

AND THEN COME UP WITH A RESPONSE THE NEXT DAY.

AND THAT'S WHAT THE OLD MEDIA WAS LIKE.

YOU WOULD WRITE A LETTER TO THE EDITOR OR WOULD WRITE A LETTER EXCHANGE TO AN OPPONENT.

BUT, NOW, IT'S WITH YOUR PHONE IN YOUR HAND IT'S SO EASY FOR YOU TO IMMEDIATELY TAKE THAT ANGER OUT AND TO CONTINUE TO BUILD ON WHAT IS A NEVER ENDING PROBLEM.

AND SO I WROTE A BOOK ABOUT THIS WHOLE ISSUE 20 YEARS AGO.

IT'S STILL AVAILABLE ON-LINE [LAUGHTER] THE COMPASSIONATE COMMUNITY.

AND THE IDEA OF MY BOOK WAS THAT WE ALL HAVE THE SHARED VALUES WHETHER YOU ARE DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS AND WHETHER YOU ARE JEWISH OR CHRISTIAN OR MUSLIM, AND THOSE SHARED VALUES ARE THE TYPES OF THINGS WE CAN BUILD A SOCIETY ON.

I WENT AND LOOKED AT IT AND ONE OF THE GREAT SOLUTIONS I THOUGHT IS WHAT SHERMAN WAS TALKING ABOUT THE INTERNET WAS GOING TO BE A GREAT DEMOCRATIZING FORCE AND ABILITY TO GIVE PEOPLE WITHOUT BIG MONEY TO HAVE THEIR SAY IN POLITICS AND REALLY SHARE THOSE VALUES THROUGH SOCIAL MEDIA.

FIND THOSE SHARED VALUES.

AND I WAS COMPLETELY WRONG AND THE OPPOSITE HAPPENED.

SO THE GENIE IS OUT OF THE BUILDING WHAT CAN WE DO TO TRY TO GET PEOPLE TO TAMPER DOWN THEIR TEMPERS AND TO FOCUS MORE ON THE GREAT VAST MAJORITY OF ISSUES WHICH WE ALL AGREE ON AS OPPOSED TO OBSESSING OURSELVES, ATTACKING OTHERS ON THE MINOR SMALL MINORITY ISSUES THAT WE DISAGREE.

>> Renee: HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE HEARD LEGISLATIVE LEADERS COME ON THIS PROGRAM AND SAY 90% PLUS OF WHAT HAPPENS IN THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS BIPARTISAN HAS BROAD BIPARTISAN APPEAL AND CONSENSUS.

IT'S ONLY THE FEW THINGS AND MORE THAN 90% PROBABLY THE 5% OF THINGS THAT GET A LOT OF HEADLINES AND TAKE UP THE INK AND THE SOCIAL MEDIA SPACE.

MOST OF THE TIMES PEOPLE GET ALONG.

>> THAT IS TRUE.

I WISH MORE PEOPLE COULD SEE THAT I ALWAYS ENCOURAGE ANYONE TO COME AND WATCH THE PROCESS AS IT UNFOLDS.

BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT YOU WILL SEE.

YOU WILL SEE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WORKING ACROSS THE AISLE.

I WAS TALKING TO A LEGISLATIVE FRIEND THE DAY AFTER THE SHOOTING AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS OUR ROLE?

WHAT CAN WE DO?

AND WHEN WE THOUGHT ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES THAT WE HAVE BETWEEN REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS, WE LARGELY AGREE ON POINT A AND LARGELY AGREE ON POINT B IT'S THE LINE HOW WE GET THERE.

AND JUST BECAUSE WE DISAGREE HOW WE GET THERE, DOES NOT MEAN IT'S NOT WORTH HAVING THE CONVERSATION TO FIND COMMONALITIES.

AND I THINK THAT IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER.

I ALSO THINK THAT POLITICAL DISCOURSE AND POLITICAL VIOLENCE UNFORTUNATELY, AMERICA HAS A HISTORY OF THAT.

THIS IS NOT A NEW PHENOMENON IN AMERICAN POLITICS.

WHAT IS DIFFERENT NOW IT HAS BEEN ACCELERATED BECAUSE OF SOCIAL MEDIA, BECAUSE OF A 24/7 NEWS STREAMING.

WE CAN'T AVOID IT.

IT'S RIGHT THERE.

SO WITH THAT COMES ALONG HYPER PARTISANSHIP.

MISINFORMATION CAMPAIGNS AND ALL OF THAT FUELS A LOT OF THIS ANGST OUT THERE COUPLED WITH INDIVIDUALS WHO FEEL THEY CAN SIT BEHIND A KEYBOARD AND CAN SAY WHAT THEY WANT WITHOUT A CONSEQUENCE IS NOT THE WAY OUR SOCIETY NEEDS TO GO.

THE WAY OUT IS THROUGH DIALOGUE AND THROUGH THESE CONVERSATIONS WE'RE SITTING DOWN AND HAVING THESE FACE TO FACE.

AND I HOPE WE CAN HAVE OPPORTUNITIES TO DO THIS MORE.

>> Renee: TRES YOUR ROLE AS A PODCASTER?

>> BEFORE I WANT TO SAY SOMETHING MECHANICALLY IN THE WAY WE RUN POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS THAT IS ALSO CHANGED IN THE LAST 10 YEARS OR SO.

THAT FEEDS WHAT AMY WAS TALKING ABOUT, ABOUT 2016, 2014 WE REALIZED ON THE CAMPAIGN SIDE THAT YOU WORK WITH LIMITED MONEY.

YOU HAVE TO BE AS EFFICIENT AS HUMANLY POSSIBLE YOU HAVE TO RAISE MONEY FROM DONORS AND THE RUSH ON INVESTMENT ON RETURN ON INVESTMENT TRYING TO TURNOUT VOTERS WHO THEY SHOW UP TO VOTE THEY ARE GOING TO VOTE FOR MY GUY IS A BETTER RETURN ON INVESTMENT THAN TO CONVINCE UNDECIDED MEMBERS TO VOTE FOR YOU.

THE CAMPAIGNS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE HAVE PIVOTED AND THEY ARE TALKING IT IT BECOMES AN ECOCHAMBER ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO WIN YOUR RACE IS TALK ONLY TO YOUR VOTERS.

AND PUT ON THE SIDE VOTERS IN A BOX THEY DON'T MATTER.

IF I CAN TURNOUT MY BASE I WIN.

AND I THINK THAT'S AFFECTED THE WAY YOU SEE SOME OF THE CAMPAIGNS TALK.

AND I CAN TELL YOU THE YOUNGER PEOPLE COMING UP TO THE CAMPAIGN WORLD THAT I SEE, AND CERTAINLY NOT ALL OF THEM, BUT A GOOD CHUNK ON BOTH SIDES THEY ARE MORE INTERESTED IN CLICKS ON-LINE AND INTERESTED IN OWNING THE LIBS AND THE CONSERVATIVES AND NOT GETTING OUT A MESSAGE THAT HELPS YOUR BOSS OR THE COUNTRY OR YOUR PARTY, IT'S ABOUT LIKE WHAT CAN I DO TODAY FOR ENGAGEMENT?

AND IT CAN GET DANGEROUS.

I CAN TELL YOU SOMEBODY WHO I HAVE GREAT RESPECT AND ADMIRATION FOR MACK BROWN.

HE GAVE ME A WIDE BIRTH TO SAY WHATEVER I WANTED.

ONE OF THE FEW GUARDRAILS HE PUT UP HE DIDN'T WANT ME TO USE WORDS LIKE WAR OR FIGHT BECAUSE A CRAZY PERSON MAY TAKE THEM SERIOUSLY.

HE WANTED ME TO STAY AWAY FROM PHRASES LIKE THAT.

I THINK THAT ON THE CAMPAIGN SIDE, WE CAN DO BETTER IN HOW WE TALK ABOUT OUR OPPONENTS AND OUR PLANS.

>> Renee: BUT WE HAVE HEARD THOSE EXACT WORDS THE LAST FIVE DAYS THAT HAVE ELEVATED PITCH THAT WE ARE AT WAR, AND THAT WE'RE READY TO FIGHT ON BOTH SIDES.

RIGHT?

NOW IT'S COMMON VEN KNACK LAR.

>> AND I DISLIKE IT.

AGAIN, HOW WE GET OUT OF THIS IS WHAT WE SAW HAPPEN TO CHARLIE KIRK WAS PURE EVIL AND PURE HATE.

THE WAY TO ADDRESS THAT IS NOT WITH MORE HATE.

IT IS WITH LOVE.

AND IT IS WITH KINDNESS AND IT IS WITH A WILLINGNESS TO UNDERSTAND HOWEVER SINGLE AMERICAN VIEWS THIS WORLD THROUGH THEIR LENS BECAUSE IT'S ALL DIFFERENT AND IT DOESN'T MEAN EITHER IS WRONG.

I JUST WE HAVE A LOT OF SOUL SEARCHING TO DO AS AMERICANS.

AND I HOPE WE GET THERE.

>> Renee: AND TO THE POINT YOU WERE MAKING JONATHAN ABOUT A SHARED SET OF COMMON VALUES, SOME WOULD SAY THAT'S BEEN DISRUPTED THERE'S NOT A SHARED SET OF COMMON VALUES.

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT'S TRUE?

>> NOT AT ALL.

I BELIEVE VERY STRONGLY IN THE GOLDEN RULE THAT IS NOT ONLY SOMETHING THAT JESUS PREACHED BUT BEFORE HIM, RABBI FROM THE JEWISH TRADITION AND YOU CAN SEE IT IN EVERY WORLD RELIGIOUS TRADITION OR EVERY WORLD TRIBAL SPIRITUAL TRADITION, THE IDEA THAT TO LOVE YOUR NEIGHBORS YOURSELF AND PARTICULARLY EXPRESS LOVE TOWARDS THOSE OF YOUR NEIGHBORS WHO ARE DISADVANTAGED THE POOR, THE ELDERLY, THE YOUNG.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT ANIMATES ALL OF US WHETHER WE ARE DEMOCRATS, REPUBLICANS OR INDEPENDENTS AND SOMETHING THAT CAN HELP BRING THE COUNTRY TOGETHER IF WE CAN FOCUS MORE ON THAT.

AND I'M HOPEFUL THAT WE WILL SEE THIS NEXT CROP OF PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES ON BOTH SIDES TAKE UP THAT MANTLE TO BRING THE COUNTRY TOGETHER BECAUSE IT'S NEEDED AND WE ARE SORELY IN NEED OF LEADERS TO PUT THEMSELVES OUT LIKE THAT.

>> Renee: WHAT DO YOU DO IN THE MEANTIME?

AND WHAT DO YOU SEE AS YOUR ROLE WHEN WE THINK WHERE DO WE FIT IN TO HELP ADVANCE POLITICAL DISCOURSE AND CIVILITY?

I TAKE PRIDE ON WHAT WE DO ON "KENTUCKY TONIGHT" THAT IS WHAT WE DO TO BRING STAKEHOLDERS TOGETHER WITH A CONVERSATION WITH DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

WHERE DO YOU SEE YOUR ROLE?

>> WELL, A COUPLE THINGS TO ANSWER THAT.

I WANT TO GO BACK TO SOMETHING THAT AMY SAID I'M NOT TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM YOUR QUESTION.

IT IS A TOUGH DISCUSSION.

BUT THE FIRST PART IS ON OUR LEADERS.

SHE TALKED ABOUT FROM THE WHITE HOUSE DOWN.

AS WE DO THAT, I THINK THAT THE FIRST PART IS THAT OUR LEADERS NEED TO BE INTENTIONAL WHEN THEY ARE EMPHASIZING RESPECTFUL DISCOURSE.

THAT IS NUMBER ONE.

WHEN THEY ARE ACTUALLY MEAN THAT AND SAYING IT AND NOT GOING OUT AND SAYING SOMETHING ELSE THAT IS NOT DIRECTED AT THE WHITE HOUSE THAT IS ACROSS THE BOARD AS FAR AS DOING THAT FOR OUR POLITICS.

THAT DISCOURSE AND THAT DISAGREEMENT, THOUGH, OVER IDEAS SPECIFICALLY, SHOULD NOT DIMINISH THE HUMANITY OF THOSE WITH WHOM WE DISAGREE AND THAT IS WHERE I WANT TO FOCUS IS THAT BACK ON THAT WHEN WE'RE TALKING TO OUR FAMILY THERE ARE FAMILY MEMBERS WHO DON'T TALK TO EACH OTHER RIGHT NOW BECAUSE OF WHERE THINGS R AND THAT IS OUR ROLE NOT JUST IN YOUR FAMILY BUT JUST AS YOU ARE GOING OUT RIGHT NOW, AGAIN I'M TALKING TO THE FOLKS THAT ARE WATCHING THIS AND IF YOU ARE A DEMOCRAT OR REPUBLICAN, TONE IT DOWN AND IT DOESN'T MEAN STOP HAVING FEELINGS AND THOUGHTS AND HAVING STRONG OPINIONS ON WHERE THINGS ARE.

BUT REALIZING THAT THE PERSON THAT YOU ARE TALKING TO, SCREAMING AND CALLING THEM A NAME OR WHATEVER YOU ARE DOING IT'S NOT GOING TO WORK AND MOVE SOMEBODY OVER TO YOUR SIDE.

CERTAINLY ANY TYPE OF VIOLENCE.

WE LOOK BACK AMY MENTIONED AGAIN POLITICAL VIOLENCE HAPPENED THROUGHOUT THE COURSE.

I WAS WORKING ON THE CAMPAIGN IN 2010 WHEN THE ALTERCATION HAPPENED OUTSIDE OF THE KET STUDIOS BETWEEN RAND PAUL SUPPORTERS AND A CONWAY SUPPORTER AND THE RAND PAUL SUPPORTERS KICKED OR STOMPED ON THE CONWAY SUPPORTER.

BOTH CAMPAIGNS DENOUNCED THAT PERSON IT WAS ONE PERSON BUT BOTH CAMPAIGNS AND BOTH CANDIDATES AT THE TIME DENOUNCED IT SAID POLITICAL VIOLENCE WAS NOT APPROPRIATE AND NOT EVER APPROPRIATE.

AND WE CAN'T GET TO THAT OPINION.

THAT IS OVER A KICK.

SO FOR THIS, WHEN YOU'VE GOT AN ASSASSINATION OF SOMEONE WHO WHETHER YOU DISAGREE WITH HIM OR NOT, IS NOT -- CAN -- WE CAN'T HAVE THAT.

AND WE HAVE HAD THESE THINGS IN THE PAST AND WE NEED TO TONE DOWN THE RHETORIC.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION FOR US IT'S FINDING COMMON GROUND AND THINGS YOU CAN WORK ON WITH SOMEONE AND REALLY GOES BACK TO AS JONATHAN SAID ABOUT THE GOLDEN RULE.

THAT'S WHERE WE ARE.

WE'RE ALL TRYING TO GET TO TREAT OTHERS AS WE WOULD.

I SEE A LOT OF TIMES PEOPLE DISAGREE ON IMMEDIATE AND YOU GO IN THE BIOAND IT IS A BIBLE VERSE OR SOME TYPE OF SOMETHING I AM A PROUD WHATEVER FAITH, AND I'M READING YOUR TWEETS AND THEY ARE NOT SHOWING THAT.

IT'S NOT EXACTLY WHO YOU'RE DESCRIBING YOURSELF.

SO I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT FOR MYSELF HOW I'M CONVEYING MY THOUGHTS AND MY BELIEFS.

I TRY TO THINK ABOUT THAT.

I HAVE AN 11-YEAR-OLD AND I WANT TO MAKE HIM PROUD IF I'M SCREAMING AT SOMEBODY OR MAD ABOUT IT IT'S NOT DOING THE JOB AND I TRY TO THINK ABOUT ALL THE TIME.

>> Renee: I HAVE A FORMER PASTOR WHO NEEDS TO SAY MAKE SURE YOUR VIDEO MATCHES YOUR AUDIO THAT IS THE TENNESSEE WAY OF PUTTING WHAT SHERMAN SAID.

BUT, TO GET BACK TO THE POINT THAT SHERMAN WAS MAKING ABOUT AND WE REMEMBER THOSE OF US AROUND THEN IN 2010 THAT INSTANCE THAT HAPPENED OUTSIDE OUR STUDIO AND HOW QUICK THERE WAS A DENOUNCE.

OF THAT WHEN AN EFFIGY OF GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR WAS HANGED FROM A TREE OUTSIDE NEAR THE GOVERNOR'S MANSION.

BOTH REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS DENOUNCED THAT.

I DID A SHOW AFTER JANUARY 6TH WHERE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS SAT IN A STUDIO AND TALKED ABOUT THAT INSTANCE.

AND WHAT THAT DID FOR WASHINGTON AND HOW WE SHOULD MOVE FORWARD BUT IT SEEMS LIKE WE HAVE SOMEWHERE HIT A POTHOLE OF SEISMIC PROPORTIONS ABOUT WHAT WE VIEW AS INFLAMMATORY AND SOCIALLY ACCEPTABLE OR UNACCEPTABLE.

>> THAT IS THE FEELING WE HAVE GOTTEN THE HABIT OF KEEPING SCORES AND WHEN ONE SIDE DOES SOMETHING, WE LIKE TO WHIP OUT OUR NOTEBOOK AND SAY BUT YOU DIDN'T SAY THIS OR DO THIS AFTER THIS HAPPENED.

AT SOME POINT IN TIME, THE ADULTS IN THE ROOM HAVE TO BE WILLING TO SAY I WILL PUT MY WEAPON DOWN AND HANDOUT TO SHAKE YOURS.

IF YOU WANT TO USE IT AGAINST ME IS FINE BUT I'M LETTING EVERYTHING THAT WAS BE.

AND I'M WILLING TO WIPE THE SLATE CLEAN AND MOVE FORWARD.

I POSTED THIS FRIDAY.

SEPTEMBER 12TH I'M WILLING TO GIVE EVERYONE GRACE AND I WILL JUDGE YOU FROM WHAT YOU SAY FROM SEPTEMBER 12TH FORWARD IF YOU WANT TO BE PART OF THE SOLUTION I'M THERE WITH YOU.

IF YOU WANT TO BE PART OF THE PROBLEM I WILL POINT IT OUT AND SAY YOU'RE BEING PART OF THE PROBLEM BUT I'M WILLING TO LET THINGS THAT YOU'VE SAID IN THE PAST IF YOU ARE WILLING TO CHANGE AND MOVE THE COUNTRY FORWARD.

>> Renee: YEAH, I HEARD YOU SAY A COUPLE OF TIMES THINGS HELPFUL, NOT HELPFUL AND SPEAKING OF SEPTEMBER 12TH AND THE CONVERSATION AFTER SEPTEMBER 11th, 2001 WHEN PEOPLE WILL SAY THAT IS THE WORST DAY IN MODERN HISTORY AND THE NEXT BEST DAY WAS SEPTEMBER 12TH IT WAS A UNITED COUNTRY COMMITTED TO FIGHTING TERRORISM AND LOVING BROTHER AND SISTER.

>> I WISH WE COULD GO BACK TO THAT.

I TRULY WISH THAT WE CAN GO BACK TO THAT UNITY THAT WE FELT THAT LEADERSHIP THAT WE SAW ON SEPTEMBER 12TH OF THAT YEAR.

BECAUSE THE WHOLE COUNTRY UNITED AROUND ONE THOUGHT THAT AMERICA IS THE GREATEST NATION IN THE WORLD.

AND HOW DARE SOMEONE ATTACK US.

>> AND THERE WAS NOT A SINGLE WORD OUT OF GEORGE W. BUSH'S MOUTH DURING THAT PERIOD OR RUDY GIULIANI'S MOUTH THAT WAS ATTACKING TRYING TO TIE THE TERRORISTS TO THIS LIBERAL IDEOLOGY RUNNING THE COUNTRY.

AND THOSE WERE LEADERS AT THE TIME WHO UNDERSTOOD THAT THIS WAS A MOMENT FOR TO TRANS END THOSE DISPUTES AND BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER AND WE ARE NOT SEEING THAT RIGHT NOW.

AND, AGAIN, I'M HOPEFUL THAT OVER THE NEXT COUPLE YEARS THAT WE'VE HIT A TURNING POINT.

MAYBE WE'LL USE THE ETCH ASKETCH TO WIPE OUT THE PAST BUT FIND LEAD HERS LIKE COX, A REPUBLICAN, WHO WANT TO BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER.

>> AMY AND I JONATHAN AND SHERMAN ALL KNOW HUNDREDS OF POLITICIANS IN OFFICE RUNNING FOR OFFICE, WERE IN OFFICE.

I CAN COUNT ON ONE HAND AND I DON'T NEED TO USE MY FINGERS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE TRULY IN IT FOR BAD PURPOSES.

I MAY THINK A LOT ARE MISGUIDED OR DUMP OR BAD SOLUTIONS THAT DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE NOT SINCERE ABOUT THEIR DESIRE TO HELP THE COUNTRY AND THAT WHAT WE LOST.

IF I DON'T AGREE WITH THEIR SOLUTION WE THINK THEY ARE EVIL AND BAD AND MUST BE STOPPED.

NOT WELL, THEY HAVE GOOD INTENTIONS I JUST DON'T LIKE WHAT THEY ARE TRYING TO DO.

ONE OF MY FAVORITE TERMS IS AGGRESSIVE CONTRAST IN CAMPAIGNS.

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AGGRESSIVE CONTRAST AND NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING THE SAME WITH WORDS THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN AGGRESSIVE DEBATING, AND JUST PLAIN GOING FOR KEEPS.

AND WE'VE GOT TO GET BACK TO WHERE WE UNDERSTAND THAT WE CAN DISAGREE AGGRESSIVELY BUT STILL GET ALONG.

>> Renee: THAT'S RIGHT.

YOU CAN HAVE A BAD IDEA BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU A BAD PERSON.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

AND WE ALSO HAVE TO BE AND IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN █OVERNIGHT BUT WE ALSO HAVE TO BE WILLING TO CALL OUT THOSE IN OUR SPHERE AND OUTSIDE OF OUR SPHERE WHEN WHAT THEY ARE SAYING IS NOT RIGHT.

WE HAVE TO BE WILLING.

AND THAT IS REALLY HARD.

>> Renee: IT'S RISKY.

>> BECAUSE WE HAVE ALL SEEN FRIENDS AND COLLEAGUES AND OTHERS WHO MADE STATEMENTS OVER THE PAST COUPLE OF YEARS, RIGHT?

THAT WE HAVEN'T AGREED WITH AND SOMETIMES YOU WANT TO SAY PULL THAT BACK.

AND WE HAVE TO BE WILLING TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS BUT THEY HAVE TO BE WILLING TO LISTEN IT GOES BOTH WAYS.

UNTIL WE HAVE A SOCIETY WHO IS WILLING TO CALL IT OUT IN A RESPECTFUL WAY AND SAY HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT HOW THAT COMMENT MAY HAVE OFFENDED OR MAY HAVE COME ACROSS?

HAVE YOU THOUGHT ABOUT IT THROUGH THIS LENS?

AGAIN, WE'RE GOING TO GET OUT OF THIS THROUGH DIALOGUE AND WE HAVE TO BE WILLING TO NOT JUST THE LET RICK RHETORIC CONTINUE.

HELPING OR NOT HELPING WHEN IT'S NOT HELPING WE HAVE TO BE WILLING TO SAY THAT.

>> Renee: WE ARE ALL NOT IN 2026 YET BUT WE ARE IN THE THROWS OF A HEATED SENATE PRIMARY ALREADY ON THE REPUBLICAN FIELD AND WE HAVE SEEN THE COMMERCIALS ALREADY.

IF YOU WANT TO RATE SOME OF THOSE?

SOME OF THE TONE AND EVEN SOME OF THE WORDS THAT ARE CHOSEN IN THOSE ADS YOU HAVE TO BLEEP IT OUT, RIGHT?

IS THAT HELPFUL OR NOT HELPFUL?

>> I MEAN, I THINK THE WORDS THEMSELVES, THE BLEEPING WORDS WE ARE IN 2026.

WE'RE BEYOND THE CENSORING PART.

I THINK THAT'S WHATEVER.

BUT EVERYBODY HAS A POTTY MOUTH THESE DAYS.

IT IS WHAT IT IS.

I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT TONE AND TENOR THAN THE WORDS.

THIS IS A WEIRD CAMPAIGN.

BECAUSE USUALLY THE WAY YOU WOULD RUN A CAMPAIGN, YOU WOULD START WITH RUNNING POSITIVE ADS TO BUILDUP YOUR POSITIVE NAME ID.

WHEN YOU GOES NEGATIVE IT BRINGS YOUR OPPONENT DOWN AND YOU DOWN.

THE HOPE IS YOU BRING YOUR OPPONENT DOWN TO A LEVEL WHERE YOUR DROP IS EVENED OUT.

THIS THING NEGATIVE STARTING NATE MORRIS IS UNKNOWN, DANIEL CAMERON HAS NAME ID.

ANDY BARR IS WELL-KNOWN IN CENTRAL KENTUCKY THERE WAS A RUSH TO DEFINE NATE MORRIS.

SO I UNDERSTAND STRATEGICALLY.

BUT IT ALSO SETS A REALLY AWFUL TONE FOR THE BEGINNING OF THE CAMPAIGN WHEN WE SKIPPED OVER THE NICE ADS WITH THE FAMILIES WALKING ON THE BLUEGRASS TALKING ABOUT HOW I LOVE THE STATE AND LOVE THIS COUNTRY.

WE WENT STRAIGHT TO THE NEGATIVE.

SO I DON'T KNOW IF THE ADS SAY ANYTHING ABOUT WHERE WE'RE AT OR IF IT PLAYS INTO THIS CONVERSATION BUT I THINK GOING -- BEING SO NEGATIVE FROM THE WORD GO, CERTAINLY DOESN'T CAST A GOOD LIGHT ON WHERE WE'RE HEADED.

>> Renee: SHERMAN TO YOU WITH THAT QUESTION, TOO.

I MEAN AS WE ARE RAMPING UP WITH SEVERAL MONTHS TO GO BEFORE THE PRIMARY AND THE GENERAL ELECTION OF NEXT YEAR, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WHERE DO YOU SEE THE POLITICAL DISCOURSE GOING?

AND DO YOU THINK IT WOULD BE WISE FOR CANDIDATES TO RECALIBRATE THEIR TONE AND TENOR?

>> I'M HOPEFUL THAT THEY ARE.

I'M HOPEFUL THAT, AGAIN, I THINK BACK TO TRES' POINT EARLIER WHEN HE WAS TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE GETTING INTO POLITICS, STATE REPRESENTATIVES, STATE SENATE BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE THEY GET IN THIS FOR THE RIGHT REASON THEY WANT TO DO GOOD.

THEY WANT TO HELP THEIR COMMUNITY AND HELP PEOPLE THAT THEY SEE AND KNOW AND I'VE SEEN GUYS GET IN A RACE AND LITERALLY BE TALKING ABOUT A STOPLIGHT THEY NEED TO GET PUT IN.

AND TALKING TO THE GOVERNOR WHAT THEY CAN DO FOR HIM IF THEY WERE TO WIN.

THINGS LIKE THAT HAVE VERY MUCH THAT LOCAL FEEL, I THINK FOR THIS WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE THREE GENTLEMEN THAT TRES WAS TALKING ABOUT, IF I'M WATCHING AND THEY ARE DISCUSSING THINGS, ATTACKING EACH OTHER ON POLICY OR ATTACKING EACH OTHER ON YOU ARE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE THE TIE THIS PERSON IS CLOSE WITH THIS POLITICIAN BECAUSE THAT POLITICIAN IS NOT POPULAR.

BUT IF IT IS TIED TO SOMEONE WHO IS MORE CHARISMATIC THAT IS ONE THING OR MORE INFLAMMATORY THAT IS ANOTHER.

AND THOSE ARE MUCH DIFFERENT CONVERSATIONS I'D LIKE TO SEE MORE HOPE FOR OUR COUNTRY AND PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT GETTING BACK TO IF YOU WANT TO TAKE, GET AMERICA BACK ON TRACK AND THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS, I WOULD LOOK AT A REAGAN.

I WOULD TAKE THAT AS FAR AS THE RHETORIC TAKE GEORGE BUSH OVER WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW.

AND DEMOCRATS ARE LOOKING AND SAYING CLEARLY, BARACK OBAMA WAS TALKING ABOUT HOPE AND CHANGE AND AT THAT TIME I DID NOT AGREE WITH GEORGE W. BUSH BUT I DIDN'T THINK HE WAS AN EVIL MAN.

AND DISAGREED WITH A LOT OF HIS POLICIES.

I'M LOOKING AT IS IT IN THAT WAY AND THINK ABOUT THAT McCAIN CONVERSATION THE DEBATE WITH HIM AND OBAMA WHERE HE STOPPED A LADY FROM TALKING ABOUT OBAMA IN A WAY THAT WASN'T A GOOD AMERICAN HE WASN'T FROM HERE THAT HE WASN'T EVEN BECAUSE THEY HAD THE -- WASN'T BORN IN HAWAII HE WAS KENTUCKIAN.

I LOOK BACK AT THOSE CONVERSATIONS ROMNEY AS WELL, AND WHERE ARE THEY?

THAT IS WHAT I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT.

ON THE DEMOCRAT SIDE, GAVIN NEWSOM TROLLING THE PRESIDENT WHILE I UNDERSTAND WHY HE IS DOING IT, NOT HELPFUL.

BUT HE CAME OUT IMMEDIATELY AND SAID AS FAR AS CHARLIE KIRK THAT THIS IS WHERE THINGS ARE AND SAID HE WAS SORRY FOR THE FAMILY AND FOR HIS KIDS.

BUT YOU READ THE COMMENTS EVERY COMMENT WAS LIKE YOU WERE JUST SAYING THIS AND JUMPING ALL OVER HIM.

SO I'M HOPEFUL THAT PEOPLE SEE THAT AND REALIZE THAT WE DO HAVE TO PUT I DON'T REMEMBER WHO SAID IT WE HAVE TO PUT OUR HANDOUT AND COMING FROM THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE OF THE AISLE I AM HOPING THAT SOMEBODY WILL SHAKE THAT HAND THAT IS WHAT IT'S GOING TO TAKE IS OUR LEADERS THAT ARE DOING.

I'M PROUD THAT ANDY BESHEAR IS DOING THAT AS OUR GOVERNOR AND HAS BEEN DOING THAT.

AND TALKING MORE OF COLLABORATION AND WORKING WITH ACROSS THE AISLE.

I'M HOPEFUL WE CONTINUE THAT CONVERSATION THAT IS OUR DISCOURSE FOR THE NEXT PERIOD.

I'M NOT SURE WE ARE THERE RIGHT NOW.

NOT SURE IT'S COMING SOON IT WILL TAKE ALL OF US TO DO THAT.

>> Renee: HOW DO WE GET PAST THE US VERSUS THEM THE NATURE WE'VE SEEN COME TO PLAY?

>> I THINK WE HAVE TO DO WHAT WE'RE DOING RIGHT NOW.

AND I THINK PEOPLE HAVE TO BE OPEN TO THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

GOING BACK TO THIS U.S. SENATE RACE TO TRES' POINT IT STARTED OFF SO NEGATIVE WE SKIPPED OVER THE NICE INTRO ADS WE HAVE A NICE AD FROM CONGRESSMAN BARR THIS WILL BE AN EXPENSIVE U.S. SENATE RACE.

WE ARE NOT NEAR OUR MAY PRIMARY.

>> CONGRATULATIONS TO ALL THE TV STATIONS IN THE STATE.

>> Renee: COMMERCIAL TV STATIONS.

>> THEY STARTED SO NEGATIVE TO SELF CORRECT BACK TO A DIFFERENT TYPE OF TONE IT'S GOING TO TAKE A LITTLE BIT AND I'M NOT SURE ALL CANDIDATES IN THIS RACE ARE WILLING TO DO THAT.

>> AND THERE IS A REASON WHY THEY DO THAT.

THERE IS A REASON WHY THEY ENGAGE IN PROTECT ACTIVE AFD FER ADS BECAUSE IT WORKS.

AND THERE IS REASON WHY THE MESSAGES ON TWITTER AND OR WHATEVER IT'S CALLED, AND SOCIAL MEDIA ARE SO DIVISIVE AND ANGRY AND HIGHLIGHTED BY EMOTION IS BECAUSE IT WORKS.

SO IT REALLY IS GOING TO TAKE ALL OF US AND NOT JUST POLITICIANS OR RECOVERING POLITICIANS, BUT EVERY CITIZEN TO RECOGNIZE THAT THIS IS A FLAW THAT WE ALL HAVE RIGHT NOW.

AND WE WOULD ALL BE DOING BETTER IF WE TURNED DOWN THE NOISE OF THESE NEGATIVE ADS AND THESE AWFUL THINGS BEING SAID ON-LINE AND FOCUS MORE ON THE VALUES THAT THE CANDIDATES SHARE WHETHER THEY ARE DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS.

>> I'VE BEEN PUTTING OUT A POLICY PROPOSAL THAT I THINK WOULD HAVE SOME EFFECT.

CONGRESS NEEDS TO ACT.

I DON'T THINK THERE IS ANY ISSUE WITH FREE SPEECH, CONGRESS SHOULD USE BAN THE ALGORITHMS TO BAN THE USE OF ALGORITHMS TO DELIVER THAT CONTENT TO USERS.

A LOT OF WHAT IS GOING ON NOW IF YOU GO ON TO X OR FACEBOOK, AND X IS EASIER TO DISPLAY IT YOU HAVE THE PEOPLE YOU FOLLOW AND THEN YOU HAVE THE FOR YOU.

AND MY FOR YOU IS A HEALTH SCAN IT IS AWFUL.

IF THAT IS ALL I READ, I WOULD BE DOWN AT BUD'S GUN SHOP MAXES OUT MY CREDIT CARD BECAUSE SOMETHING'S COMING.

AND PEOPLE READ THAT BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT DEFAULTS WHEN YOU OPEN YOUR APP.

THERE ARE COMPANIES OUT THERE WHO ARE PROFITING OFF OF DELIVERING THOSE DIVISIVE MESSAGES BECAUSE THE CAMPAIGNS NEGATIVE WORKS NEGATIVE GETS ICE AND CLICKS NEGATIVE GETS ENGAGEMENTS AND THAT IS WHAT PAYS THE SOCIAL MEDIA COMPANIES THEY ARE PROFITING OFF THE DIVISION OF AMERICANS.

WE NEED TO STOP THAT.

AND AGAIN, THERE'S NO FREE SPEECH VIOLATION.

PEOPLE ARE STILL ABLE TO USE THE APP AND SAY WHATEVER THEY WANT BUT THE COMPANIES SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO PROFIT OFF OF THE DIVISION OF AMERICANS.

>> Renee: SOCIAL MEDIA HAS BEEN AROUND A LONGTIME NOW.

I DIDN'T GET ON X OR TWITTER UNTIL 2011 BUT I'M LATE TO EVERYTHING.

WHY IS IT SEEMS TO BE SO MUCH MORE INTENSE?

THE ALGORITHMS?

>> THE TARGETING OF ADS THE ALGORITHMS USED AND WHEN WE LOOK AT HOW CAMPAIGNS HAVE CHANGED AND WHY CAMPAIGNS ARE SO ENGAGED IN THE SOCIAL MEDIA AND WEB ADS IS YOU CAN REACH MORE VOTERS QUICKLY.

IT IS A LOT EASIER TO REACH AND TARGET THOSE VOTERS THAN TO GO OUT AND WALK IN A PARADE FOR TWO MILES WHICH ARE VERY IMPORTANT THINGS TO DO.

AND WE TALK ABOUT THE SIXTH DISTRICT RACE, THAT IS WHERE THEY ARE FOCUSED AND THAT IS WHAT WE'RE SEEING.

WE HAVE TO BRING BACK THE NOTION THAT CANDIDATES AND CAMPAIGNS CANNOT SUB IN AND CALL IT IN AND DIAL IT IN FOR SOCIAL MEDIA OUTREACH.

THERE HAS TO STILL BE THIS OLD SCHOOL WAY OF CAMPAIGNING THAT I'M CONVINCED YOU CANNOT REPLACE.

AND THAT IS GETTING OUT AND SHAKING HANDS AND TALKING TO PEOPLE FACE-TO-FACE.

AND THAT IS WHERE YOU DON'T SEE THE DISAGREEMENT.

THAT IS WHERE YOU DON'T SEE THE ANGST.

YES, YOU MAY HAVE DISAGREEMENT ON ISSUES BUT IT ALLOWS CANDIDATES TO HAVE FACE-TO-FACE CONVERSATIONS AND ALLOWS VOTERS ACCESS TO THOSE INDIVIDUALS TO BE ABLE TO SEE THEM FOR WHO THEY ARE AND NOT IN A 30-SECOND CLIP.

>> AND THE SOCIAL MEDIA OVERLORDS MADE SERIOUS MISTAKES IN THE PAST FIVE YEARS AS WELL.

THEY MADE A MISTAKE BY BANNING DONALD TRUMP FROM SOCIAL MEDIA.

I THOUGHT IT WAS A BIG MISTAKE AND IT CAUSED TREMENDOUS ANGER.

BUT I THINK THE REACTION HAS ALSO BEEN A MISTAKE BY NOW TAKING OFF ALL OF THE GUARDRAILS.

MY -- I DON'T KNOW IT IS THIS WAY BUT MY FOR YOU ON TWITTER IS FILLED WITH ANTISEMITIC ATTACKS ON MY PEOPLE AND IT'S CONSTANT.

I TRY TO HIDE AND DELETE THEM AND THEY KEEP COMING BACK.

AND AGAIN, EVERYBODY HAS THE RIGHT TO BE ANTISEMITIC AND SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE BUT THE PLATFORMS DON'T HAVE TO ALLOW THAT OR MANAGE IN WAYS THAT FIND BALANCE WHERE WE HAVE FREE SPEECH BUT IT IS NOT A STREAM OF HATE.

>> Renee: SHERMAN?

>> YES.

I THINK AMY AND JONATHAN TAPPED ON WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY.

BUT I WILL GO A DIFFERENT ROUTE.

EMPATHY IS GONE AS OF RIGHT NOW.

WE'RE NOT SEEING ANY TYPE OF EMPATHY WHEN IT COMES TO WHAT PEOPLE ARE GOING THROUGH, HOW THEY ARE REACTING TO A LEADER OF THEIRS OR SOMEONE THAT THEY IDENTIFY WITH OR GO BACK TO THE CHARLIE KIRK IMMEDIATELY PEOPLE JUMPING IN AND SAYING HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT HIM.

THE SAME THING YOU COULD ARGUE WITH THE MURDERS IN MINNESOTA OF THE TWO LEGISLATORS.

AND AS THAT ASSASSINATION THERE AND THE RESPONSE FROM OUR LEADERS AND SPECIFICALLY FROM DONALD TRUMP SAYING HE DOESN'T WANT TO TALK TO GOVERNOR WALTZ, THERE'S NO EMPATHY OF TRYING IT FIGURE IT OUT.

AND AGAIN, WE GO BACK TO I DON'T WANT TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED IN THE PAST BECAUSE OF WHAT IS HAPPENING NOW, THAT EMPATHY NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING THAT WE'RE ALL LOOKING AT AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT.

AND THE ALGORITHMS WE CAN BLAME THAT.

BUT THAT PLAYS A PART I DON'T THINK IT IS THE ONLY THING.

I THINK WE'VE GOT TO BE MINDFUL THAT IS A MEDIUM.

IF THEY WORK BECAUSE OF WHAT YOU ARE SEARCHING FOR AND LOOKING FOR AND WHO YOU FOLLOW I'M NOT SAYING IT'S ALL WRONG, THAT IS DOVE NATURALLY A PART OF IT BUT IT'S NOT THE ONLY THING GOING ON.

AND WE HAVE TO ADDRESS TOP TO BOTTOM HOW PEOPLE ARE TALKING WHO THEY ARE TALKING TO, WHY THEY ARE TALKING THAT WAY.

AND TRES I ONLY HAVE TO TALK TO MY BASE THAT IS WHAT YOU SEE THE PRESIDENT DOING AND YOU SEE DEMOCRATS DOING THAT AS WELL.

WE DON'T HAVE ONE PERSON SPEAKING FOR US SO IT'S DIFFERENT WHEN THAT GETS TO THE 28 RACE AND WE'RE GOING TO BE THERE CLOSER WITH THE MIDTERMS IS WHEN YOU WILL SEE START POPPING OUT AND ARE THEY ONLY TALKING TO THE BASE OR TREATING THIS AS A BROADER CONVERSATION AND TO GET BACK TO THAT SEPTEMBER 12TH AS WE TALKED ABOUT 2001 CONVERSATION AND THAT WAS EMPATHY AND LOOKING AT EVERYBODY.

AND I THINK PRESIDENT BUSH BRINGING EVERYBODY TOGETHER HE KNEW WHAT WE WERE ALL GOING THROUGH AND WHAT WE NEEDED TO HEAR AND IT WAS MORE OF THAT CONVERSATION.

WE ARE NOT GETTING THAT RIGHT NOW FROM OUR PRESIDENT AND HONESTLY I WAS HOPING HOPEFUL I'VE BEEN HOPEFUL BEFORE FOR HIM BUT I WAS HOPEFUL THAT DAY AND IT WASN'T THERE.

>> Renee: WE ALSO KNOW THAT CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS, MEMBERS OF THE DELEGATION ALSO ARE NOT HAVING TOWN HALLS, RIGHT?

FOR ALL KINDS OF REASONS AND TO GET TO AMY'S POINT ABOUT ENGAGING WITH VIEWERS AT A DIFFERENT LEVEL NOT JUST SOCIAL MEDIA THERE ARE OPPORTUNITIES BUT THEY CAN BE FRAUGHT WITH SECURITY CONCERNS AND THINGS YOU FEAR OUT OF PERSONAL SAFETY.

>> AND ESPECIALLY NOW.

I THINK THAT THERE'S NOT ONE OF US, RIGHT, WHO ARE IN THE POLITICAL SPHERE WE ARE NOT CANDIDATES WE DON'T HOLD OFFICE.

BUT DIDN'T FEEL ROCKED BY WHAT WE SAW HAPPEN.

BECAUSE ALL OF US HAVE BEEN TO NUMEROUS RALLIES, PARADES, FORUMS, TOWN HALLS, YOU NAME IT WHERE YOU JUST WALK IN.

AND YOU HOPE AND WE TAKE FOR GRANTED WE ARE IN A SAFE SPACE TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT DISCOURSE.

AND THAT PEOPLE IN THE ROOM WILL BE CIVIL.

AND THAT WE WILL TAKE CARE OF EACH OTHER EVEN THOUGH WE WILL DISAGREE.

AND SO, YES, WHAT I'M FEARFUL OF IS THAT WHAT WE SAW HAPPEN IS GOING TO RESTRICT THAT ACCESS SOMEWHAT.

AND THAT IS A SHAME.

BUT THAT IS THE REALITY OF THE WORLD WE LIVE IN.

AND YOU KNOW, WATCHING THE NEWS BEFORE COMING IN HERE, I THINK MEMBERS OF CONGRESS ARE HAVING DIALOGUE WHAT TYPES OF SECURITY MEASURES ARE PUT INTO PLACE.

WE GO TO LEGISLATIVE CONFERENCES I RECEIVED AN E-MAIL FROM A NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE ORGANIZATION THAT WANTED EVERYBODY TO KNOW THEY ARE REVISITING ALL SAFETY PROTOCOLS AND MEASURES FOR WHEN GUESTS AND LEGISLATORS ATTEND THE CONFERENCES.

THE WORST THING IS WE PUT A BARRIER BETWEEN VOTERS AND THE CANDIDATES FOR OFFICE.

>> Renee: AND BARRIERS FOR GOOD PEOPLE TO RUN.

>> THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS I WILL I'M MOST CONCERNED ABOUT SINCE THE GABBY GIFFORD SHOOTING.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MAKES AMERICA GREAT OUR LEADERS COME FROM US WE DON'T HAVE A HOUSE OF LORDS.

OUR LEADERS COME FROM US AND PART OF WHAT KEEPS THEM GROUNDED IS THE ACCESSIBILITY.

MITCH McCONNELL WHEN HE WAS SENATE MAJORITY LEADER ONE OF THE MOST POWERFUL POLITICIANS IF YOU HAD 50 BUCKS YOU COULD GO TO LUNCH AND BE 25 FEET FROM MITCH McCONNELL.

IF YOU WANT TO SEE ANDY BESHEAR SPEAK OR RAND PAUL OUR LEADERS ARE ACCESSIBLE IT'S GOOD BECAUSE THEY GET TO SEE REALITY.

MITCH McCONNELL SHOPS AT THE KROGER AND TAILGATES HE IS OUT AND ABOUT.

YOU CAN TALK TO HIM RESPECTFULLY OR NOT.

THAT IS YOUR CHOICE.

BUT THEY ARE ACCESSIBLE.

AND WHEN WE START PUTTING UP WALLS BETWEEN THE GOVERNED AND THOSE DOING THE GOVERNING, NOT ONLY DOES IT MAKE THEM LESS RESPONSIVE TO US, BUT IT STARTS TO FEED YOUR PARANOIA, FEED YOUR FEAR AND THAT BELIEF THAT THEY ARE DOING WRONG THINGS BECAUSE WE NO LONGER HAVE THAT FACE-TO-FACE INTERACTION.

I'M FEARFUL NOT JUST AS POLITICAL OPERATIVE AT THOSE EVENTS AND DOESN'T WANT TO HAVE TO BE DUCKING STRAY SHOTS THAT IS HORRIFIC BUT WORRIED ABOUT THE FUTURE OF OUR COUNTRY AND HAVING THE REPUBLIC THE WAY IT IS AND THE RESPONSIVENESS AND THE CITIZENRY TO ELECTED RELATIONSHIP WE'VE GOT.

>> Renee: AS WE LOOK ON THE 250TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE LOOK WHERE WE ARE?

>> I LEFT ELECTED POLITICS 18 YEARS AGO.

AND ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I DECIDED NEVER TO RUN AGAIN WAS THE COURSENING OF POLITICS AND HOW UGLY IT HAD GOTTEN AND BOY, 2007 WAS A HOUSE OWN EDEN COMPARED TO NOW.

ONE OF THE THINGS I'M FEARFUL IS WILL THIS NEXT GENERATION OF PUBLIC SERVANTS OF COMMUNITY ACTIVISTS OF PEOPLE WHO WANT TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE FOR THE RIGHT REASONS ON THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT WILL THEY PUT THEIR NAME ON THE BALLOT?

AND WILL THESE SECURITY CONCERNS BE PART OF THAT CALCULATION?

MY WIFE IS EXCITED ABOUT ME NOT BEING IN POLITICS AND JUST THIS PAST WEEK HAS ADDED TO THE FUEL TO HER FIRE AS TO WHY SHE IS SO GLAD THAT I AM A PRIVATE CITIZEN NOW.

AND THAT MEANS WE'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE PEOPLE WHO ARE IN IT FOR THE WRONG REASONS AND THAT'S COMPILING THE PROBLEMS FOR DEMOCRACY.

>> Renee: BUT YOU ARE STILL PUBLIC FACING, RIGHT?

AND STILL INVOLVED IN THIS POLITICAL DISCOURSE.

ARE YOU EVER CONCERNED QUITE FRANKLY, ABOUT BEING SO PUBLIC FACING AND SHARING YOUR OPINIONS JUST AS YOU ARE DOING NOW?

>> SURE.

ABSOLUTELY.

BUT, I THINK, THE UPSIDE TO IT, RIGHT, WE SHOULDN'T BE FEARFUL.

AND SHERMAN AND I HAD A GOOD CONVERSATION HOW WE KNEW TONIGHT WAS GOING TO BE HARD.

BUT WE BOTH AGREED THAT IT'S HARD BECAUSE IT MATTERS.

AND SO, I THINK, THAT'S EVERY TIME WE'RE GIVEN THESE OPPORTUNITIES, THE PRIVILEGE THAT WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SIT HERE AND SHARE OUR EXPERIENCE ON A PANEL AND THE STATE OF THE NATION AND THE COMMONWEALTH IS A GREAT PRIVILEGE THAT WE HAVE.

AND I THINK IT'S WORTH IT EVEN IF WE CAN CHANGE ONE OR TWO MINDS TO MAYBE PAUSE AND TAKE A BEAT AND JUST THINK.

>> LOOK, I AM A PARTISAN I DO A PODCAST I'M ON LARRY GLOVE RADIO THEY LET ME GUEST HOST NOW AND THEN I'M NOT GOING TO PULL MY PUNCHES.

I'M GOING TO ADVOCATE FOR MY CAUSE AND I'M GOING TO AGGRESSIVELY AGAINST CANDIDATES I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE ELECTED IN OFFICE.

IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU HAVE TO STOP ANY SORT OF NEGATIVE CAMPAIGNING.

IT'S EFFECTIVE BUT THERE IS A WAY YOU CAN DO IT.

THE CONTEXT MATTERS AND THE FRAMING MATTERS AND THE WORDS THAT YOU CHOOSE TO USE MATTER.

AND YOU KNOW, I THINK THAT THERE IS A MEDIUM THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND WHERE WE CAN STILL HAVE POLITICS IS NOT TOUCHED IT'S TACKLE FOOTBALL AND WE CAN STILL HAVE THAT WHILE NOT CAUSING AND FOR MENTDING THE POLITICAL VIOLENCE WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW.

>> Renee: GETTING BACK TO A LITTLE BIT OF RACES ALMOST BEFORE US AND I WANT TO REVISIT U.S. SENATE RACE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANT TO TALK ON THERE?

WE TALKED ABOUT THE CAMPAIGNING STYLE?

>> THE LATEST POLLING WE SAW COME OUT IT WAS AFFILIATED WITH A PRO BARR PACT BUT WHAT WE SEE, RIGHT?

I THINK IT WOULD TREND WITH WHAT WE'RE ALL SEEING HAPPENING ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL RIGHT NOW WHICH IS THAT BARR IS STARTING TO INCREASE HIS NUMBERS AND GAIN ON CAMERON.

CAMERON LEADS THE PACK RIGHT NOW BUT WITH BARR MAKING SIGNIFICANT MOVES, BARR'S FUNDRAISING IS STILL TREMENDOUS AND GIVES HIM THAT BIG ADVANTAGE WHERE CAMERON'S FUNDRAISING HAS NOT MET THAT MARK.

SO I THINK, WE'LL SEE IF MORRIS' NUMBERS START TO MOVE.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE A POLL THAT SHOWS PHASED UNPHASED TO SEE WHERE THE CANDIDATES ARE.

HOPEFULLY WE WILL SEE THAT IN THE COMING MONTHS.

>> THIS IS A WEIRD CAMPAIGN.

BECAUSE YOU HAVE DANIEL CAMERON WHO HAS ALMOST UNIVERSAL NAME ID AMONG REPUBLICAN PRIMARY VOTERS AND MASSIVELY AND HE IS ALSO I WOULD SAY THE LEAST LIKELY OF THE THREE TO WIN.

>> Renee: WHY?

>> HIS FUNDRAISING IS STRUGGLING IN A U.S. SENATE CAMPAIGN IT BECOMES MUCH MORE ABOUT THE AIR WAR THAN THE GROUND WAR.

IT IS A WIG STATE IT'S EXPENSIVE TO CAMPAIGN IN AND RUN ADS IN.

AND I THINK THAT BARR YOU ALREADY SEE BARR'S NUMBERS UP AND HE WILL MOVE FASTER UP, TIM'S ASSUMING POURIES IS GOING TO BE COMING WITH POSITIVE NAME ID STUFF.

WE'RE GOING TO MOVE RETURN BACK TO THE BEGINNING WITH THE INTRO PIECES.

AND I THINK THAT YOU ARE GOING TO SEE CAMERON WITH THE LEAD THROUGH LATE JANUARY, FEBRUARY, MAYBE IN MARCH.

BUT ONCE HE GETS PAST THEY ARE GOING TO FAST HIM FAST.

THEY ARE HAVING THIS TROUBLE RAISING MONEY AND IT SAYS THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A HUGE SHAKE UP ONCE THE OTHER TWO CANDIDATES CATCH UP.

>> Renee: COULD THAT BE BECAUSE THIS IS NOT AN ELECTION YEAR PEOPLE MAY NOT BE PAYING ATTENTION DOES THAT IMPACT ON ONE'S ABILITY TO RAISE MONEY?

OR INDICATIVE OF STRENGTH OR WEAK NNS.

>> IT HELPS CAMERON'S NAME ID FLOAT HIM ON TOP LONGER BECAUSE PEOPLE AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO THE OTHERS.

SO THIS BAKED IN NAME ID LETS HIM IMPROVE.

>> Renee: TO YOUR POINT OF THE INVERSION HOW THIS CAMPAIGN UNFOLDED MAYBE THERE'S POLITICAL CALCULUS TO GO AFTER YOUR OPPOSITION EARLY AND DO THE WARM STUFF LATER?

>> I SAID IF I WAS ANDY BARR CAMPAIGN I WOULD HAVE RUN AN AD DURING THE DERBY LAYING OUT THE CASE OF NATE MORRIS SMOTHER THE CAMPAIGN BEFORE IT GETS STARTED.

ONCE YOU START FIGHTING BACK AND FORTH IT MAKES IT HARDER.

IF I HAD BEEN OUT THERE I WOULD HAVE BEEN TRYING TO DEFINE EARLIER.

TO WAIT UNTIL HE GOT IN THE RACE AND A AIR WAR, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE WHERE THE NUMBERS ARE TO SEE WHAT THE EFFECT OF THE ADS WERE.

>> Renee: I WANT TO GET TO HE IS NOT ON THE BALLOT AND THAT IS GOVERNOR ANDY BESHEAR.

JOHN JOHN THERE WAS A PIECE IN THE JURY JURY LAST WEEK OR BEFORE COURIER-JOURNAL ABOUT BROWN SAYING HE NEEDS TO CONSIDER RUNNING IN THE U.S. SENATE RACE BECAUSE HE WOULD BE A GOOD CANDIDATE.

ARE YOU TRYING TO CONVINCE HIM?

>> I HATE TO DISAGREE WITH CHRISTIE BROWN SHE LIFTED UP MY GUBERNATORIAL CAMPAIGN AND MADE ME A SERIOUS CONTENDER AND SOMEONE I VALUE TREMENDOUSLY.

BUT I DO DISAGREE WITH HER.

AND THE GOVERNOR'S MADE CLEAR THAT HE WANTS TO NOT RUN FOR THIS AND SERVE OUT HIS TERM AND I THINK HE'S CERTAINLY INDIRECTLY MADE CLEAR THAT HE'S GOING TO RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY IF A LANE DOES OPEN.

AND I DO THINK THAT HE'S GOT AS GOOD A CHANCE AS ANYBODY IT IS A LONGSHOT FOR EVERYONE.

I THINK HE HAS AS GOOD A CHANCE AS ANYBODY AND TO GO BACK TO THE MESSAGE AND SHERMAN MADE THIS POINT HE HAS BEEN TALKING ABOUT HIS CHRISTIAN VALUES AND ABOUT UNITING THE PUBLIC AND ABOUT TRYING TO GET OVER THIS NASTY INNOCENCE POLITICS.

IF THAT MESSAGE IS RESONANT MAYBE HE HAS A SHOT AT WINNING.

>> Renee: SHOULD THE GOVERNOR TAKE A PASS ON THE SENATE RACE BECAUSE HE WANTS TO CONTINUE AND SERVE OUT HIS TERM AS GOVERNOR AND LOOK AT A SERIOUS RUN FOR THE PRESIDENCY?

>> HE'S ALREADY SAID HE IS NOT RUNNING.

HE SAID THAT PRIVATELY.

HE SAID THAT PUBLICLY.

HE'S NOT RUNNING FOR U.S. SENATE.

AND THAT'S NOT HAPPENING.

I DO THINK THAT AS FAR AS THE CONVERSATION THAT HE HAS BEEN HAVING, I WAS WITH HIM, THERE, I WAS THERE IN OKLAHOMA WHEN HE SPOKE TO THE OKLAHOMA DEMOCRAT PARTY AND THERE AND THIS IS WELL BEFORE LAST SUMMER.

AND THERE HE IS TALKING AND GIVING -- HAVING A SPEECH ABOUT UNITY AND ABOUT RHETORIC THAT CONVERSATION THERE WAS OTHER THINGS IN THERE HE TALKED ABOUT POLICY AND WHERE HE DISAGREES WITH THE PRESIDENT AND DISAGREES WITH THINGS AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL.

AND AT THE STATE LEVEL.

HE DISAGREED WITH MANY THINGS BUT THERE WAS NEVER AN ATTACK ON SOMEONE AT THAT TIME.

AND I'M HOPEFUL AGAIN THAT WE CAN GET BACK TO THAT OF CLEARLY I'M SUPPORTIVE OF ANDY BESHEAR HAVING WORKED FOR STEVE BESHEAR FOR FIVE YEARS.

HE'S SOMEONE THAT I BELIEVE IN AND WATCHING AND PROUD OF.

I DON'T SEE THAT CONVERSATION -- I THINK THAT CONVERSATION IS WHAT WE NEED AND I DON'T SEE ENOUGH OF IT RIGHT NOW AND I'M HOPEFUL THAT IS WHERE IT IS.

AND IF THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE WANT, THEN LIKE JONATHAN SAID THERE IS A LANE FOR HIM.

AND I'M HOPEFUL THAT'S WHERE I WANT AND WHAT I WANT OUR POLITICS TO BE AND THE DISCOURSE TO BE THAT WE CAN ALL DISAGREE WITH WHATEVER IT IS.

BUT, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY I THINK THAT IS WHERE HE IS LOOKING.

AND HE'S TALKING TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE AND MAKING MOVES AND LOOKING AT THAT OPPORTUNITY IF IT ARISES.

>> Renee: SO FROM THE DEMOCRATS WE KNOW THAT PAMELA STEVENSON IS MOUNTING A CAMPAIGN.

WE EXPECT ANOTHER DEMOCRAT TO JUMP IN?

JONATHAN MILLER?

>> I THINK THAT THIS IS PROBABLY A BETTER QUESTION FOR CHUCK SCHUMER.

AND THE FACT IS THAT FOR A DEMOCRAT TO HAVE ANY CHANCE IN THIS RACE, OTHER THAN ANDY BESHEAR INCLUDING ANDY BESHEAR THERE NEEDS TO BE A COMMITMENT FROM THE NATIONAL PARTY TO SPEND MILLIONS MAYBE TENS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS ON THIS SEAT.

AND I KNOW THEY'VE TALKED TO THE GOVERNOR.

I KNOW ROCKY ADKINS GETS BROUGHT UP.

BUT UNLESS SCHUMER AND THE DSCC MAKES THAT COMMITMENT IT WILL BE A TALL HILL TO CLIMB.

>> Renee: I THANK YOU ALL FOR THIS CONVERSATION TONIGHT.

AND I HOPE THAT YOU FOUND IT HELPFUL AT HOME AND WE HOPE YOU WILL JOIN US ON "KENTUCKY EDITION" WHERE WE'LL TALK MORE ABOUT THE ISSUES CONFRONTING YOU AND WHAT WHATEVERS AT 6:30 EASTERN 5:30 CENTRAL HERE ON KET.

I'M RENEE SHAW THANK YOU FOR WATCHING TONIGHT.

TAKE GOOD CARE AND I'LL SEE YOU SOON.