TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> ERIC: IN THE NEXT HOUR, WE'LL BRING YOU A DEBATE WITH THE LEADING CANDIDATES FOR STATE AUDITOR.

A CONVERSATION WITH REPUBLICAN SECRETARY OF STATE CANDIDATE KIM CROCKETT.

AND THEN MARY LAHAMMER, WITH ONE MONTH TO GO IN THE CAMPAIGN, RECAPS A BUSY WEEK IN POLITICS.

>> Mary: WITH JUST ABOUT A MONTH TO GO UNTIL THE ELECTION, THE APITOL AND THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL ARE BUSY.

WE'LL SHOW YOU HOW DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS ARE TRYING TO BREAK THROUGH IN A NUMBER OF CLOSE RACES.

ARE YOU WILLING TO SAY NOW THAT IS NOT TRUE AND YOU DO ACCEPT THAT THERE ARE NOT KITTY LITTER -- >> I'M NOT GOING TO GET DISTRACTED BY THAT.

>> Mary: THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪♪ "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 28 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

THE SHAKOPEE MDEWAKANTON SIOUX COMMUNITY: A TRIBAL NATION FOCUSED ON COMMUNITY AND COLLABORATION, ESPECIALLY IN TIMES LIKE TODAY.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

ONE GREATER MINNESOTA REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE OTTO BREMER TRUST, WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES AND OPPORTUNITIES IN OUR REGION.

ADDITIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY THE BLANDIN FOUNDATION, WORKING TO STRENGHTEN RURAL MINNESOTA.

>> ERIC: IT'S A NIGHT OF POLITICS ON "ALMANAC," AND WE START WITH A CONVERSATION FOR THE NEXT 20-PLUS MINUTES WITH THE TWO LEADING CANDIDATES FOR STATE AUDITOR.

>> CATHY: IT'S THE STATE AUDITOR'S JOB TO AUDIT THE FINANCES OF NEARLY 5,000 UNITS OF GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING COUNTIES, CITIES, TOWNS AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

THE AUDITOR ALSO TRACKS FEDERAL SPENDING IN MINNESOTA.

THE CURRENT STATE AUDITOR IS DFL'ER JULIE BLAHA.

SHE WAS FIRST ELECTED IN 2018.

HER CHIEF CHALLENGER THIS FALL IS REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE RYAN WILSON.

THIS WILL BE AN "ALMANAC" STYLE DEBATE, NO OPENING OR CLOSING STATEMENTS, NOR TIMED RESPONSES.

IT'LL BE A FREE-FLOWING CONVERSATION THAT STARTS NOW.

LET'S TALK ABOUT SOME THINGS THIS NEWS, SHALL WE?

FEEDING OUR FUTURE SCANDAL, THE HUGE COST OVERRUNS FOR THE SOUTHWEST LIGHT RAIL LINE.

OVERPAYMENTS TO NATIVE TRIBES FOR CHEMICAL DEPENDENCY PROGRAMS.

RYAN WILSON, WHAT ROLE IF ANY DOES THE STATE AUDITOR HAVE IN BLOWING THE WHISTLE ON THESE EPISODES, EPISODES LIKE THESE?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK THE -- THANK YOU FOR HAVING US TONIGHT.

THE STATE AUDITOR PLAYS AN SUSPENSION ROLE IN EING MINNESOTA'S WATCHDOG.

THE ONLY ELECTED AUDITOR AT THE STATE LEVEL, THAT STATEWIDE IS LOOKING OVER OUR TAX DOLLARS AND SO WHETHER IT'S THINGS LIKE FEEDING OUR FUTURE, THE LIGHT RAIL OVERRUNS OR FROM A COUPLE YEARS AGO, THE AY CARE FRAUD, THESE ARE THE TYPES OF THING THE STATUTE AID TORE CAN BE A VOICE FOR, IN ADDITION TO BEING A VOICE AND EDUCATING THE PUBLIC ON WHAT'S HAPPENING AND WHAT THE ISSUES ARE AND WORKING WITH THE LEGISLATURE TO POTENTIALLY FIX THEM, WHEN THE JUNIORS DIAGNOSIS FALLS UNDER THE AUDITOR, THEN ITS I'D INCUMBENT TO GO IN AND DO FURTHER EXAMINATIONS AND THEY'RE NOT CONTINUE TO HAPPEN.

>> Cathy: AUDITOR BLAHA, I KNOW YOU HAVE CERTAIN RULES ABOUT AUDITS SO WHAT ABOUT THE STATE AUDITOR'S ROLE IN LOOKING AT THE MONEY OF THESE EPISODES?

>> IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER IS THAT IN MINNESOTA, THE STATE AUDITOR REALLY HAS A HEAVY FOCUS ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND THAT'S ONE OF THE BEST PARTS OF THE JOB, FRANKLY, IS THIS LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT THAT DOESN'T GET THE ATTENTION I THINK IT DESERVES SO ANY TIME WE COME AND TALK ABOUT IT IS GREAT.

BUT IN MINNESOTA, WE FOCUS ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT, WE DO HAVE A -- WE JUST RECENTLY PICKED UP A LITTLE FEDERAL WORK FOR THE STATE-WIDE CANDIDATES BUT IT'S BEEN INTERESTING BECAUSE AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS, FEEDING OUR FUTURE IS UNDER THE JURISDICTION OF THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR, AT THAT TIME, THE DAY CARE ISSUE THAT HE'S BRINGING UP HAPPENED BEFORE I WAS EVEN ELECTED AND IT WAS,GAN AGAIN, A STATEWIDE ISSUE.

IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT WE STAY FOCUSED ON WHAT THE AWED TOWARD REALLY DOES, IT REALLY DOES MATTER AND I THINK THAT'S BEEN ONE OF THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCES, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

INSTEAD OF HOPPING ON HEADLINES AND TALKING ABOUT AREAS THAT ARE LITERALLY OUTSIDE THE JURISDICTION OF THE STATE AUDITOR ENTIRELY.

>> Eric: Mr. WILSON -- >> AGAIN, THAT'S PROBABLY OUR BIGGEST DISAGREEMENT ASK, YOU KNOW, WHEN I'M STATE AUDITOR AND THESE ISSUES ARISE, IF I HAVE THE ABILITY TO AFFECT THEM, TO STOP THEM FROM HAPPENING, I'LL USE WHATEVER TOOLS ARE AT MY DISPOSAL.

TAKE FEEING OUR FUTURE.

THERE WAS A REPORT THAT AUDITOR BLAHA SIGNED OFF ON THAT HAD FEEING OUR FUTURE LISTED IN IT AS ONE OF THE NONPROFITS THAT SEVERED MONEY FROM THE STATE.

IN THAT REPORT, IT HAD FEEING OUR FUTURE LISTED AS NOT HAVING RECEIVED ITS REPORT, SO NO REPORT ON FILE SO WE COULDN'T SAY WHETHER IT WAS COMPLIANT OR NOT COMPLIANT ND THAT REPORT WAS PASSED ALONG EVENTUALLY TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT AND ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS CRITICAL WITH, IT WAS PASSED ALONG WITH NO ADDITIONAL NOTE, NOT RAISING YOUR HAND TO SAY THIS IS AN ISSUE, I'M AWARE OF THIS YOU HAD FROM, RATHER BE CALLING THE USDA, CALLING THE INSPECTOR GENERAL, DOING SOMETHING BIT.

IF THE ELECTED STATE AUDITOR OF MINNESOTA RAISES THEIR HAND AND SAYS, THIS IS AN ISSUE, PEOPLE ARE GOING TO LISTEN.

>> Eric: RESPONSE?

>> THE ISSUE THAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS, AGAIN, IT'S A REPORT THAT WE PASS ON AND IN THAT REPORT, IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT WE GIVE IT TO THEM TO SAY NOW YOU TAKE ACTION ON THIS.

AND ON THE SPECIFIC ISSUE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, THE DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION WAS TAKING ACTION.

THEY WERE IN FACT USING THAT INFORMATION TO TRY TO SEVERE THEIR TIES WITH FEEDING OUR FUTURE, SO THAT REPORT DID EXACTLY WHAT IT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO.

NOW, DID I JUMP ON AND GRAB A HEADLINE FOR IT, NO, BECAUSE THE ONLY RED FLAG -- THE ONLY WAY -- HEADLINES ARE NOT THE ONLY WAY TO RAISE A RED FLAG, ESPECIALLY WHEN SOMETHING IS EARLY LIKE THAT.

YOU NEED TO GET THAT TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE, LET THEM TAKE A LOOK AT I WANT AND THEY DTHAT FELL UNDER THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR AND WE KNOW THAT AND I THINK AS A LAWYER, YOU KNOW THAT BUT TOO BRING IT UMM IS REALLY CONFUSING BECAUSE, YEAH, I'VE SEEN THE EPUBLICAN PARTY SAYING IT'S EITHER THE GOVERNOR'S FAULT OR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S FAULT OR IT'S MY FAULT, ITS I'D THIS IDEA OF TRYING TO HOP ON A HEADLINE THAT'S SO DANGEROUS.

>> WHAT WE KEEP SAYING, THIS HAS BEEN COMMON, SAYING IT'S NOT MY JOB, EITHER SOMEBODY ELSE'S RESPONSIBILITY.

WHEN MY SIGNATURE GOES ON SOMETHING WHETHER AS AN ATTORNEY OR WHEN IT WENT ON SOMETHING, IT MATTERED, IT MINES SOMETHING.

WHEN AUDITOR BLAHA PUT HER SIGNATURE ON THIS REPORT THAT WENT TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ARE AND DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING, DIDN'T ADD ANY ADDITIONAL COMMENT, DAKOTA COUNTY' TAKE THE BEST OPPORTUNITY TO BE ABLE TO SAY, HEY INSPECTOR GENERAL, HEY, USGA, THIS IS A PROBLEM, NOR MONEY FLEW OUT THE DOOR AND ULTIMATELY MONEY THAT WAS MEANT TO HELP FEED KIDS DURING THE PANDEMIC DIDN'T -- >> Cathy: ONE MORE RESPONSE BEFORE BE MOVE ON.

>> GANG, I REALLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO LOOK AT THAT ARE THE ROW.

'6" THE TIMELINE WRONG, YOU HAVE THE JURISDICTION WRONG AND IT REALLY IS, I THINK, REALLY DANGEROUS WHEN YOU'RE SIMPLY TRYING TO KIND OF THROW THINGS OUT THERE HOPING PEOPLE WILL BE CONFUSED.

INSTEAD OF TALKING ABOUT WHAT WE REALLY FOCUS ON.

THIS OFFICE FOCUSES ON LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND WE HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT I'VE SEEN YOU MOVING OFF ON TO THESE OTHER ISSUES THAT WE DON'T COVER, SO YOU WON'T TALK ABOUT LOCAL GOVERNMENT, AND I TELL YOU WHAT, THAT'S WHERE WE GOT TO LIVE THAT'S AN INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT AREA TO BE.

>> Eric: BACK IN 2015, GOVERNOR DAYTON SIGNED A BILL THAT ALLOWED FOR PRIORITIZATION OF MANY OF THE AUDIT FUNCTIONS.

IS THAT A TREND YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE CONTINUE, IS THAT SOMETHING YOU THINK IS GETTING IN THE WAY OF GOOD WORK FROM THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE?

>> WELL, IT'S ULTIMATELY A LEGISLATIVE CHOICE AND THE LEGISLATURE ON BEHALF OF THE PEOPLE SAID THIS IS AN OPTION WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO GIVE COUNTIES.

WE WANT COUNTIES TO BE ABLE TO PICK BETWEEN THE STATE OUGHT TO BE'S OFFICE AND PRIVATE AUDITORS AND PART OF THAT WAS TO INTRODUCE COMPETITION IN THE MARKETPLACE AND THAT IS WHAT IT IS, AND NOW WHAT WE THEY WOULD TO SEE IS THAT THE STATE AUDITOR'S OFFICE MOVES FORWARD WITH THAT NEW REALITY AND PUTS PROCEDURES IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE AUDITORS, THOSE PRIVATE AUDITORS HAVE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF QUALITY, RIGHT, THAT THEY'RE DOING THEIR JOB AND THAT THEY'RE CHECKING THEM AND NOT JUST DOING DESK REVIEWS BUT IN-DEPTH REVIEWS AND IS THAT WE HAVE STANDARDS, YOU KNOW, DEEP STANDARDS AS TO HOW THESE PRIVATE AUDITORS ARE DOING THE WORK OF THE STATE NOW.

>> Cathy: ARE YOU DOING THAT?

>> EXACTLY.

THAT'S ONE 069 THINGS I'M PLOWED OF.

WE HAVE EXPANDED OUR WORK ITH PRIVATE AUDITORS, WE HAVE A GROUP THAT MEETS REGULARLY SO WE CAN TALK ABOUT THAT.

THE KIND OF REVIEWS WE DO ARE CALLED WORK PAPER REVIEWS AND I COULD GET NERDY ABOUT THAT ALL DAY IF YOU WOULD LIKE, I DON'T KNOW IF HAT'S WHAT YOUR PEOPLE TUNE IN FOR BUT I CAN TELL YOU WHEN, WHAT WE DO IS WE NOT ONLY DIG INTO THEIR WORK, WE ALSO BRING THEM TOGETHER SO THAT WE CAN SHARE BEST PRACTICES BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, MINNESOTA DOES RELY ON THE FACT THAT WE NEED BOTH PUBLIC AUDITORS AND A PRIVATE MARKET THAT IS WILLING AND ABLE TO DO THESE ADD ITS BECAUSE UNLESS YOU GIVE ME 800 AUDITORS LIKE OHIO HAS, WE HAVE TO HAVE BOTH PUBLIC AND PRIVATE PEOPLE DOING THE AUDITS.

SO WE'VE WORKED REALLY HARD TO REBUILD THE RELATIONSHIPS SO THAT WE CAN BE SHARING GOOD PRACTICES AND THAT PAID OFF DURING COVID BECAUSE WE HAD TO KIND OF STEP UP AND HELP PEOPLE NAVIGATE THROUGH SOME TRICKY, SOME REALLY TRICKY NEW STANDARDS AND WE WERE THE ONES WHO COULD SAY, ALL RIGHT, WE'LL MAKE THE STATEMENT, WE'LL MAKE THE CALL, AND SO THAT PEOPLE COULD GET THROUGH THERE AND HELP PEOPLE URING ONE OF THE MOST CHALLENGING OVERSIGHT TIMES IN OUR HISTORY.

>> Eric: ARE YOU CONFIDENT, I THINK IT'S FAIR TO SAY, YOU SEE MORE OF AN EXPANDED ADVOCACY ROLE IN THE STATE AUDITOR'S OFFICE AND I WONDER IF YOU'RE CONFIDENT LEGISLATURE WOULD PROVIDE THE MONEY AND YOU'D BE ABLE TO FIND THE TRAINED PERCENTAGE TO FULFILL YOUR VISION HERE.

>> OH, ABSOLUTELY CONFIDENCE.

I RAN A COMPANY FOR A LITTLE OVER TEN YEARS AND PART OF THAT WAS GROWING IT FROM MYSELF AND A PARTNER TO WHAT ENDED UP BEING A GLOBAL LEADER IN AUDITING MEDICAL DEVICE COMPANIES AROUND THE STATE, A LOT F NAMES WE'D REMEMBER.

WHEN PEOPLE WANT TO COME WORK AND A VISION THAT'S ENTICING FOR PEOPLE SO I'M CONFIDENT THAT THE LEGISLATURE WILL WANT TO INVEST IN AULD IT INK.

EVERY LEGISLATURE I'VE SPOKEN WITH SAID WE NEED MORE AUDITING IN MINNESOTA,.

>> LESS.

>> Cathy: I WAS READING THROUGH YOUR WEBSITE AND YOU WANT TO LOOK AT THE MINNEAPOLIS CHARTER COP NUMBERS AMONG OTHER THINGS AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS AND HOW THEY'RE SPENDING MONEY TO HELP STUDENTS.

IS THAT IN YOUR PURVIEW?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, THE CHARTER FOR MINNEAPOLIS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE.

I THINK IT WAS A REAL MISSED OPPORTUNITY BY AUDITOR BLAHA, YOU KNOW, THE CHARTER REQUIRES A CERTAIN NUMBER OF POLICE OFFICERS BE EMPLOYED, AND THERE WAS A LAWSUIT IN AUGUST, 2020, WHERE RESIDENTS OF NORTH MINNEAPOLIS SAW WHAT WAS HAPPENING, THEY SAW THE POLICE WERE LEAVING THE FORCE AND IT WAS ON A TRAJECTORY FOR THE CITY TO BE OUT OF COMPLIANCE.

EVENT BALMILY CAME OUT OF COMPLIANCE.

THEY SUED THE CITY AND IT TOOK TWO YEARS TO GET VIND GAMES.

THE COURTS SAID THEY ARE NOT COMPLYING WITH THEIR CHARTER, AND THEN WE SAW MAYOR FREY COME OUT WITH A PLAN.

THIS IS SOMETHING THE AUDITOR COULD HAVE STEPPED IN BEFORE THE SLIGHT STARTED TO HAPPEN.

IN AUGUST 2020 TO AUDIT TO LEGAL COMPLIANCE WITH THEIR CHARTER.

RIGHT THERE ON THE AUDITOR'S WEBSITE -- >> AND JUST AS THE SUPREME COURT SAID, THEY WERE IN COMPLIANCE ON THEIR BUDGET ABOUT THE NUMBER THAT THEY HAD.

THE ISSUE THAT THEY HAD WAS WITH RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION IS REALLY THE ISSUES THAT THEY WERE STRUGGLING WITH, AND, IN FACT, IN OUR OFFICE, IF YOU REALLY WANT TO SEE WHAT THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE DOES WHEN IT WORKS WITH, SAY, RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION OF LAW ENFORCEMENT, FIREFIGHTERS, EMTs, THAT'S REALLY MORE IN OUR PENSION DIVISION WHERE WE CAN HELP STRUCTURE THE KIND OF PENSIONS THAT CAN ATTRACT GOOD PEOPLE, KEEP THEM THERE, SO, YES, YOU COULD CERTAINLY HOP ON A HEADLINE OR YOU CAN ACTUALLY LOOK AT WHAT THE OFFICE REALLY DOES AND LEVERAGE THAT.

I'M REALLY PROUD OF THE RELATIONSHIPS AND THE WORK WE'VE DONE TO SUPPORT ANNUAL ENVIRONMENT WHERE WE CAN COMPETENT GOOD FIRST RESPONDERS IN A WAY THAT ATTRACTS THEM AND KEEPS THEM IN THE FORCE.

BUT, AGAIN, THIS IDEA THAT THERE WASN'T A PROBLEM WITH THE FINANCIAL PART OF IT, I'M NOT SURE HOW YOU WOULD HAVE GONE IN AND AID, HEY, I'M GOING TO GET PEOPLE TO DO THIS JOB IN THIS DIFFICULT TIME.

AGAIN, IT'S -- THERE ARE PLENTY OF THINGS WE DO IN THE OFFICE THAT MATTER.

YOU ON'T HAVE TO GO OUT AND JUST GRABBING THINGS THAT ARE IN THE HEADLINES.

>> Cathy: RESPONSE.

>> I THINK THAT'S A MISUNDERSTANDING OF THAT LAWSUIT, WHAT THE RESULT SAID WAS THAT THERE WAS A STIPULATION BETWEEN THE PARTIES THAT THEY WERE GOING TO TAKE THE ISSUE OF WHETHER THE CITY COUNCIL FUNDED IT OR NOT.

I THINK IF YOU SPEAK WITH THE PARTIES, THEY'LL TELL YOU THAT IS AN OPEN ISSUE OF WHETHER THE CITY COUNCIL ITSELF IS PROVIDING ENOUGH FUNDING.

BUILT REGARDLESS, IF THE AMOUNT OF FUNDING I WANT TAKES TO HIRE A PARTICULAR OFFICER HAS CHANGED BECAUSE THE WORLD HAS CHANGED, THEN THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THE STATE AUDITOR SHOULD BE GOING IN ADDRESSING THE ISSUES THAT MATTER TO MINNESOTANS.

IT'S NOT GOOD CHASING HEAD LININGS, IT'S ABOUT DOING THE JOB OF STATE AUDITOR.

>> Cathy: MINNESOTANS DO WANT TO KNOW, BY THE WAY, WHEN IT COMES TO SCHOOL FUNDING WHETHER THE ISTRICTS ARE USING MONEY WISELY, RIGHT?

>> TRUE.

>> Cathy: AS STATE AUDITOR, WHAT ARE YOU FINDING AND DO YOU HAVE ENOUGH RESOURCES TO ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, AS A FORMER TEACHER, YOU CAN IMAGINE THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO ME AND WHEN I CAME INTO THE OFFICE, ONE THING I SAW WAS THAT WE HAD -- HAD NOT DONE SCHOOL AUDITS IN OVER 20 YEARS, THEY'VE DONE, SO THEY'RE DONE EVERY YEAR.

>> Eric: THEY CAN REQUEST THAT YOU COME IN AND -- >> THEY COULD, BUT CAPACITY WISE, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE CAPACITY OR EXPERTISE TO BE ABLE TO FULFILL THAT.

WE KNEW IF SOMEONE ID WANT TO ASK FOR US OR IF WE GOT HAT'S CALLED A PETITION AUDIT FROM THE PUBLIC, OR WE HAD INVESTIGATIONS, WE NEEDED TO BUILD A AN EXPERTISE POOL SO THAT WE HAD A TEAM OF AUDITORS THAT WAS READY TO STEP IN.

THE WAY I DID IT WAS I STARTED WORKING WITH SCHOOL FINANCE OFFICIALS, WITH SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS, WITH PARENTS, STUDENTS, AND WE TALKED ABOUT HOW COULD WE COME IN IN A WAY THAT WASN'T DISRUPTIVE TO THEIR BUDGET BUT STILL PROVIDED THE LEVEL OF EXPERTISE WE NEEDED.

I WAS ABLE TO EARN SOME FUNDING FOR THAT, GET SOME LEGISLATIVE CHANGE WITHOUT DISRESULTING A BUDGET.

WE ARE CONTINUING TO WORK ON THAT, COVID WAS BUSINESS DID IT RUPTTIVE SO WE THEY WOULD TO PUT OUR EARTH INTO THAT OVERSIGHT.

BUT WE NEEDED TO GO IN AND DO FINANCIAL AUDITS AND I THINK THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE IN HOW WE APPROACH THAT.

I THINK WE NEED TO STICK TO WHERE THE FINANCES ARE, IS THE MONEY GOING INTO THE RIGHT RACE, IS IT BEING SPENT PROPERLY?

AS OPPOSED TO WHAT I'M SEEING FROM RYAN'S PLAN WHERE HE WANTS TO START TALKING ABOUT TEST SCORES AND HOW THOSE INTERSECT WITH PERFORMANCE AND BUDGETS AND I THINK THAT'S THE OPPOSITE WAY OF LOOKING AT IT.

>> I THINK THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT ARE IMPORTANT SO, AUDITOR BLAHA ASKED FOR THE MONEY, THE LEGISLATURE GAVE IT TO HER BECAUSE THEY SAID THIS IS IMPORTANT, WE VALUE THIS AUDITING, WE WANT IT TO BE DONE.

THIS WAS IN A SPECIAL SESSION SO IN THE MIDDLE OF LAST YEAR, 2021 THAT THIS MONEY WAS GIVEN AND AS LATE AS AUGUST, 2021, AUDITOR BLAHA WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW THIS WAS GOING TO BE HER PLAN AND SHE WAS GOING TO THE MEDIA AND DISCUSSING OW THIS -- AND TO SAY THAT COVID GOT IN THE WAY OF THAT, BETWEEN AUGUST, 2021, AND NOW, JUST DOESN'T LINE UP WITH THE FACTS.

WHAT THE FACTS ARE IS THAT YOU WENT BACK AND SENATOR KIFFMEYER WILL TALK ABOUT THIS AND TRIED TO GIVE THAT MONEY BACK.

THEY SAY YOU PUT IT ON HOLD, YOU SAY YOU PAUSED THIS PLAN, NOW YOU SAY YOU'RE RESTARTING IT BUT THAT'S NOT RUE.

YOU SAID YOU WERE GIVING IT BACK BECAUSE YOU WEREN'T ABLE TO EXECUTE IT.

THOSE AREN'T MY WORDS, THIS IS SENATOR KIFFMEYER.

A CORNERSTONE OF MY CAMPAIGN FROM DAY ONE HAS BEEN HELPING OUR SCHOOLS, HYPING UNDERSTAND WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING, PARENTS WANT TO KNOW -- EVERYWHEN I TRAVEL AROUND ATHE STATE, THEY WANT TO KNOW IS THE MONEY MAKING IT TO THE CLASSROOMS, SO THE TEACHERS CAN TEACH, THE KIDS CAN LEARN, IS IT GETTING SIPHONED OFF ELSEWHERE.

WHEN WE SEE THE TEST SCORES DROP, THEY WANT TO KNOW HUE DO WE GET IT BACK ON TRACK.

OTHER STATES DO PERFORMANCE AUDITS WHERE THEY CAN GO IN AND LOOK AT, IS THIS EFFECTIVE.

WE HAD A MILLION DOLLARS IN iPADS, DID I WOULD MOVE THE MATH ON READING.

>> Eric: WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT TO SAY ABOUT IS THIS.

>> WHEN WE SAW THAT WE AD TO GET ALL HANDS ON DECK TO FINISH THE OVERSIGHT, REMEMBERING, THAT AUDITS LAG, SO THEY'RE LAGGING ABOUT A YEAR SO EVEN THOUGH COVID IS WAYNEING, WE'RE STILL FINISHING UP THE OVERSIGHT BECAUSE YOU'RE ABOUT A YEAR AFTER THAT FUNDING COMES IN.

SO WE SAID, HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, WE HAVE TO SERVE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, THEY HAVE THE ADDITIONAL OVERSIGHT REQUIREMENT, ALL HANDS ON DECK, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE TO SUPPORT THEM BEFORE WE GO TO SOMETHING BRAND NEW.

SO THAT'S WHY WE DID THAT.

AGAIN, ABSOLUTELY RIGHT CHOICE AND I WENT TO SENATOR KIFFMEYER AND SAID, ALL RIGHT, I KNEW WHEN YOU GO BACK AND SAY, HEY, HERE'S THE THING, WE THOUGHT THIS MADE SENSE, I KNEW THAT COULD COME UP AT THE LICKS, THEY COULD TAKE A SHOT AT ME.

BUT GETTING THE MONEY BACK IN THE RIGHT PLACE BECAUSE WHEN YOU CHANGE COURSES, IF YOU CAN GET MONEY BACK SO IT CAN BE USED PROPERLY, THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

SO I WANTED TO GO, ABOUT O.BE VERY TRANSPARENT AND SAY HERE'S THE DEAL, MAKES SENSE FOR US TO PUSH IT BACK SO THIS YEAR WE'RE NOT GOING IS TO SPEND THAT MONEY, YOU HAVE THE CHANGES TO USE IT AGAIN MORE WIDELY AND WE'LL COME BACK TO YOU AFTER THE COVID OVERSIGHT TO REUP IT.

>> Eric: ALONG WITH THE AUDITING FUNCTION, YOU ARE ON SOME VERY IMPORTANT BOARDS OF INVESTMENT, ONE IS THE STATE BARRED OF INVESTMENT, I THINK IT'S $130 BILLION IN THE FUND FOR INVESTMENT FUNDS.

AND I THINK THERE'S DISCUSSION ABOUT MOVING IT TO A CLIMATE-CHANGED FOCUS.

IS THAT SOMETHING YOU WOULD PURSUE OR WHAT'S YOUR THOUGHT ON INVESTMENT STRATEGY?

>> I THINK IT'S BEST TO LEAVE I WOULD TO THE INVESTMENT MANAGERS TO GET THE BEST RETURN POSSIBLE, WHETHER THAT'S CLIMATE RISKS, MACRO RISKS OR WAR IN FOREIGN COUNTRIES, WE WANT THE INVESTMENT MOTION TO PURSUE THE BEST RETURN ON INVESTMENT AS POSSIBLE.

BECAUSE ANYTHING LESS THAN THAT THE PENSIONING WON'T GET WHAT THEY WERE PROMISED OR THE SYMPTOM SENSE OF MINNESOTA WILL HAVE TO BACK-FILL IT.

>> Cathy: I KNOW THE BOARD IS STARTING TO DISCUSS ISSUES ON HOW INVESTMENTS ARE MADE.

TO SOME FOLKS, THAT LOOKS LIKE USING PUBLIC MONEY TO PUTS POLITICAL GOALS.

IS THAT FOCUS PRUDENT?

>> IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO KEEP THAT SEPARATE, YOU'RE RIGHT.

AS A FIDUCIARY, MY JOB IS TO PROTECT THE FUND, AND WHAT WE'RE SEEING THROUGHOUT THE MARKETS IS THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS ROCKING EVERYTHING.

IT'S KNOW SURPRISE, THAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS CHANGING HOW ENERGY WORKS, AND HOW ENERGY WORKS AFFECTS THE MARKETS.

SO I THINK THAT WHEN WE HEARD INVESTORS SAY THINGS LIKE CLIMATE RISK IS INVESTMENT RISK, I THINK THAT'S REALLY CLEAR AND PRETTY COMMON SENSE.

SO WHAT WE THEY WOULD TO DO NOW AND WHAT WE WORKED ON, I LED ON THIS, WAS TO INSURE THAT WHICH HAD THE DATA BEHIND IT SO IT WOULDN'T BE SOMETHING THAT PEOPLE WOULD THINK WHAT WE WERE DOING WAS POLITICAL BUT ACTUALLY BASED ON THE NUMBERS.

SO WE HAVE HAD A YEAR-LONG STUDY THAT JUST WRAPPED UP THAT SHOWS NOT ONLY WHAT CLIMATE CHANGE IS DOING TO MARKETS AROUND THE WORLD BUT TO OUR FUND IN SPECIFIC.

AND IT'S VERY CLEAR THAT WE HAVE TO TAKE CLIMATE RISK SERIOUSLY.

>> Eric: WHAT'S AN EXAMPLE OF THAT?

HOW WOULD THAT -- WHO MILD YOU INVEST IN -- >> IT'S INTERESTING BECAUSE IT'S NOT SOMETHING I THINK THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT EVER COME TO US AND SAID, JUST DIVEST FROM ALL OSSIL FUELS, OTHER PEOPLE WILL SAY INVEST IN FOSSIL FUELS BECAUSE THEY'RE DOING WELL IN THE SHORT TERM.

WHAT YOU SEE IS A MORE NUANCED APPROACH, WE HAVE TO HAVE A GOAL OF GETTING TO A PLACE WHERE WE ARE NOT SO DEPENDENT ON FOSSIL FUELS, BECAUSE THE RISK LEVEL IS SO HIGH.

SO WHAT YOU MIGHT SAY, ARE WE GOING TO MOVE INTO ENERGY COMPANIES THAT ARE DOING THE TRANSITION WELL?

THOSE COULD BE SOME OF THE SAME COMPANIES THAT ALSO HAVE FOSSIL FUEL HOLDINGS BUT ARE PROPERLY TRANSITIONING SO YOU'RE LOOKING AT WHO IS MOVING INTO THE FUTURE AND IS BEST SET TO HANDLE HOW ENERGY IS CHANGING.

>> Eric: YOU LIKE THAT APPROACH?

>> Cathy: IS THIS FOCUS PRUDENT?

>> THEY'VE ALREADY DIVESTED OF SOME TRADITIONAL ENERGY STOCKS AND PUTTING THE THUMB ON THE SCALE OF MORE GREEN ENERGY.

WE NEED TO UNLEASH THE INVESTMENT LAGS TO BET THE BEST RETURNS.

WHEN YOU TOOK THOSE ASSETS OFF THE TABLE AND DIDN'T ALLOW THEM TO INVEST IN CERTAIN TYPES OF TRADITIONAL ENERGY, THAT'S REDUCED OUR ABILITY TO GET A BEST INVESTMENT.

WE'VE UNDERPERFORMED OUR BENCHMARK FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MINNESOTA, .1% BUT ACROSS -- 130 BILLION, THAT ADDS UN, I DON'T BELIEVE WISHED BE USING OUR PENSIONERS' FUNDS FOR POLITICAL PURPOSES.

>> TO BE REALLY CLEAR, THOUGH, THE IDEA OF DIVESTING FROM THERMAL COAL, THIS IS A PRETTY -- EVERYBODY IS MOVING AWAY FROM IT.

THE RISK IS SO CLEAR OUT THERE AND WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW -- WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE LIKE J.P. MORGAN, THESE ARE THE GROUPS THAT ARE LOOKING AT THESE THINGS.

THESE ARE PEOPLE I DON'T THINK ARE DOING THIS TO BE CLIMATE HEROS, THEY'RE DOING IT TO MAKE MONEY, RIGHT?

AND SO WHEN WE MOVED AWAY FROM THE THERMAL COAL, THAT CAME FROM OUR INVESTMENT PROFESSIONALS AND IF YOU LOOK LONG TERM, WE HAVE WOULD BE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE FUNDS IN THE COUNTRY OF ITS KIND.

AND IT'S BECAUSE OUR INVESTMENT PROFESSIONALS HAVE GIVEN US THAT ADVICE AND WE'RE FOLLOWING THAT.

SO, YES, THIS -- THAT IDEA CAME IN BECAUSE THE NUMBERS WERE SO CLEAR.

>> Cathy: DO YOU THINK THE STATE LEGISLATURE SHOULD DO MORE WEIGHING IN ON THE STATE INVESTMENTS THAN JUST LEAVING IT UP TO THE INVESTMENT BOARD?

>> WELL, EMEMBER, F YOU -- IN MY ROLE, I'M ONLY FOCUSING ON THE HEALTH OF THE FUND.

THAT IS WHERE WE LIVE.

SO IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO DO SOMETHING FOR ANOTHER REASON, FOR INSTANCE, WHEN WE MOVED AWAY FROM SUDAN, OR IF DURING APARTHEID, WHEN THEY MOVED AWAY, THAT IS THE STUFF THAT SHOULD COME THROUGH A LICKED.

THAT'S EXACTLY THE RIGHT PLACE FOR THAT.

I'M ALL ABOUT THE NUMBERS.

SO WE'RE SEEING THAT -- THAT IF YOU THINK ABOUT CLIMATE RISK AND CLIMATE OPPORTUNITIES, YOU MAKE MORE MONEY.

IF YOU LOOK AT COMPANIES THAT HAVE A BROAD INCLUSIVE ENVIRONMENT, THEY ARE ON AVERAGE ALSO MAKING MORE MONEY.

SO THAT'S WHAT IT'S REALLY ALL ABOUT.

>> Eric: I WANT TO ASK ABOUT THE SECONDTIVE COUNCIL BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR AND THREE STATEWIDE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICERS, INCLUDING THE AUDITOR, ARE ON THAT COUNCIL.

AND I WONDER HOW YOU FELT ABOUT THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL HANDLING THE GOVERNOR'S CONTINUING THE EMERGENCY POWERS OVER THE PANDEMIC.

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK ONE F THE THINGS THAT CAME CLEAR OUT OF THAT IS THAT THERE WERE SOME DECISIONS THAT EXTENDED A LITTLE BIT FURTHER THAN THEY NEEDED TO EXTEND AND ONE OF THOSE THAT WE SAW IN PARTICULAR IS KEEPING THE SCHOOLS CLOSED.

YOU KNOW, OUR KIDS STAYED OUT OF SCHOOL LONGER THAN THEY NEEDED TO AND NOW WE'RE UNFORTUNATELY SEEING THE NEGATIVE RAMIFICATIONS OF THAT.

WE'RE SEEING RECORD LOW TEST SCORES AND TEST DROPS IN TEST SCORES AND PROPER SUFFICIENCY BECAUSE THEY KEPT OUR KIDS OUT OF SCHOOL AND WE DIDN'T DO MORE TO GET KIDS BACK INTO SCHOOLS.

SO I THINK THAT'S AN AREA THAT'S A FAIR CRITICISM OF THE EXECUTIVE BOARD.

>> Eric: YOU SUPPORTED THE CONTINUATION.

>> WELL, YEAH, THE CONTINUATION OF THE STATE OF EMERGENCY AND I THINK WE HAVE TO BE REALLY CLEAR WHAT THESE DECISIONS.

ONE OF THE THINGS I'M REALLY PROUD OF IS WE WORKED TO INCLUDE SCHOOL DISTRICTS IN THOSE DECISIONS, LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN THOSE DECISION SO THESE DECISIONS WERE OFTEN NOT THE STATE SAYING THIS BUT US ALL WORKING TOGETHER TO SAY HEY, IF YOU HIT THESE STANDARDS, YOU CAN BE BACK.

AS A TEAM, WE FOLLOW THE SCIENCE AND ANSWER THE SCIENCE WAS CHANGING, I NEVER THOUGHT THIS IS WHAT I WOULD BE VOTING ON.

THERE WAS ONE POINT WHERE I HAD MADE MORE VOTES THAN NEW LEGISLATORS HAD AND I'M IN THE SECT DITCH BRANCH.

AND -- BUT WHAT WE HAD TO DO WAS REALLY LOOK AT THE SCIENCE AND WRESTLE WITH THE SCIENCE.

MY ROLE WAS TO REALLY LOOK AT IT FROM THAT FINANCIAL PERSPECTIVE AND MY WORK THERE.

WOULD WE DO EVERYTHING EXACTLY THE SAME, PROBABLY NOT BUT WHAT I'M PROWLED OF IS WE STAYED ENGAGED, WE WRESTLED WITH IT, FOLLOWED THE SCIENCE AND WE HAD TO CHANGE COURSE, WE DID.

AND SO THAT IS WHAT I CAN DO.

THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE KIND OF MONDAY-MORNING QUARTERBACKING THIS, IT'S EASY TO SAY THAT WHEN YOU'RE ON THE OUTSIDE OR WORKING ON LAWSUITS THAT WERE CHALLENGING MASKS OR SUPPORTING A -- SOMEONE WHO KEPT THEIR BUSINESS OPEN DURING THE PANDEMIC WHEN EVERYBODY ELSE WAS FOLLOWING THE RULES, THAT'S A VERY DIFFERENT APPROACH.

WE HAD TO GET IN THE GEARS AND REALLY WRESTLE WITH THIS AND I'M PROUD OF OUR WORK.

>> Eric: ARE YOU SATISFIED WITH THE MECHANISM BY WHICH THE GOVERNOR CAN DECLARE AN EMERGENCY AND HAVE THESE POWERS, WOULD YOU BE SUPPORTING ANY CHANGES IN THAT, OR... >> I DO THINK MORE INVOLVEMENT BY THE LEGISLATURE WOULD HAVE GOTTEN MORE BUY-IN FROM THE PUBLIC HERE.

I THINK THAT WAS ONE OF THE LESSONS LEARNED OUT THIS IS THAT THE LEGISLATURE WAS FOR THE MOST PART LOCKED OUT BECAUSE OF THE STRUCTURE OF HOW WE EXECUTED OUR EMERGENCY ORDERS AS OPPOSED TO OTHER STATES SO SOMETHING I WOULD ADVOCATE MORE IS MORE INVOLVEMENT FROM THE PEOPLE WHO ARE REPRESENTING THE PEOPLE.

>> Cathy: IS IT FAIR TO SAY THAT YOU SEE THE OFFICE AS BEING MORE ADVOCACY RATHER THAN BALANCES AND STRIKES?

>> NO, I THINK IT'S THE OTHER WAY AROUND, I THINK WE NEED AND AUDITOR THAT'S APOLITICAL, THAT DOESN'T WANT TO USE THE OFFICE FOR PARTISAN POLITICS.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT AUDITOR BLAHA SAID SEVERAL TIMES, SHE'S HAPPY THERE IS A PROGRESSIVE IN THE OFFICE, HAPPY IT'S A PARTISAN ROME.

I SEE IT THE OPPOSITE, DOESN'T MATTER IF IT'S REPUBLICAN OR DEMOCRATS, IF HENNEPIN COUNTY NEEDS ADDITIONAL EXAMINATIONS SO WICK SEE IF THE DADE CARE FRAUD THAT HAPPENED ARE BEING CLOSE.

AND FIXED, SOMETHING AUDITOR BLAHA HASN'T DONE IN HER FOUR YEARS THERE, HIM I'M WILLING O DO THOSE EXAMINATIONS.

SAME WITH EMERGENCIES, IN THEY'RE NOT COMPLYING WITH THEIR CHARTER AND IT'S FEEDING INTO A CRIME WAIVE, THAT'S SOMETHING I'M WILLING TO DO.

IF THERE'S HUNKS OF MILLIONS OF FRAUD HAPPENING, I'M WILLING TO RAISE A HAND AND RACE THE ISSUE.

THIS IS AN ISSUE OF BEING A WATCHDOG OVER PEOPLE'S TAX DOLLARS.

>> I THINK THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE IS WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO TELL THE TRUTH ABOUT THE OFFICE.

AGAIN, THE THINGS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE THINGS THE OFFICE DOESN'T DO AND THAT HE'S-HERE'S THE PROBLEM, THE OFFICE IS DOING SO MANY THINGS THAT ARE SO IMPORTANT, THE ONLY WAY YOU'RE OING TO BE ABLE TO GO OFF ON TO THINGS THAT THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR DOES OR THE F.B.I.

IS LOOKING AT IS IF YOU SHORT-SHIFT LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE ENDLESS RESOURCES SO THE ONLY WAY YOU'RE GOING TO GO OFF AND DO -- TRYING TO CONNECT TEST SCORES TO BUDGETS IS OING TO BE TO SHORT-CHANGE A TOWNSHIP OR TO WALK AWAY FROM A COUNTY.

>> LEGISLATURE TO GET MORE FUNDING TO DO THINGS THAT MATTER FOR MINNESOTANS TO MAKING THE CASE TO THE LEGISLATURE THAT THESE THINGS ARE IMPORTANT -- >> I WOULD LOVE THAT.

IN FACT, YOU KNOW WHAT, I TRIED -- I DID GO IN, I'VE GONE IN AND ASKED FOR MORE INVESTIGATORS, COULDN'T EVEN GET ONE.

THE EPUBLICANS IN THE LEGISLATURE BLOCKED EVEN ONE MORE INVESTIGATOR.

>> THAT'S BECAUSE THEY GAVE UP MONEY ONCE AND YOU CHOSE NOT TO DO IT AND TRIED TO GIVE IT BACK TO THEM.

IF THEY CEDE THE MONEY BACK TO THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE AND THEY'RE NOT DOING THE -- >> Eric: THERE IS A SPECIAL INVESTIGATIVE UNIT IN YOUR DEPARTMENT.

>> ABSOLUTELY, AND I'M TELL YOU, ONE OF THINGS THAT'S BEEN A CHALLENGE IN YOU ARE -- IN OUR OFFICE IS REPUBLICAN PRESSURE ON THE OFFICE HAS REDUCED THE SIZE BY ABOUT 40%, AND SO, YES, WE ARE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN WITH THAT, SO I WENT MY FIRST -- ONE OF MY VERY FIRST ASKS WAS TO BEEF THAT OFFICE UP AND THE RESPONSE WAS NO.

AND I'M TELL YOU WHAT, I THINK WE'RE SEEING NOW WHY THAT STUFF MATTERS, WHEN THEY WANTED TO PRIVATIZE WHAT'S CALLED THE STATEWIDE SINGLE AUDIT, WE STEPPED IN TO SAY WE KNEW THEY WOULDN'T WANT TO PRIVATIZE IT THAT SO WE TOOK THAT OVER THIS YEAR.

AS WE'RE GOING IN -- THERE'S BEEN -- IF WE WANT TO DO THE THINGS THAT I THINK RYAN YOU WANT TO DO, ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS FOR YOU WOULD BE TO GET A DEMOCRATICALLY CONTROLLED LEGISLATURE BECAUSE OTHERWISE OU'RE NOT GOING TO GET THAT.

>> Cathy: RYAN WILSON?

>> IF WE LOOK AT SOME OF THE GREAT STATE YOU HADTORS OF THE PAST, ARNE CARLSON, PAT ANDERSON, JUDY DUTCHER, THESE ARE AUDITORS THAT WERE VISIBLE, THAT TACKLED ISSUES THAT MATTERED AND A LOT OF THOSE WERE THINGS LIKE AT THE MET COUNCIL, PLACES WHERE AUDITOR BLAHA HAS BEEN REFUSING TO HELP GET ANSWERS ON.

THEY'VE TACKLED THE BIG ISSUES OF THE DAY AND WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE THE POWER THEY NEED, THEY'RE WILLING TO GO TO THE LEGISLATURE AND GET IT.

>> Cathy: LAST WORD?

>> A GOOD WATCHDOG DOESN'T HAVE TO BARK OWNED SO THIS IDEA THAT YOU'RE NOT HEARING WHAT WE'RE SAYING AND MAYBE YOU CAN ONLY HEAR WHAT'S SUPPORTING YOUR OWN AGENDA BUT I'M PROUD OF THE FACT THAT WE HAVE BEEN STANDING UP FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT, HELPING THEM BEING MORE SUCCESSFUL AND I CAN'T WAIT TO DO THAT FOR ANOTHER FOUR YEARS.

>> Eric: OUT OF TIME.

GOOD LUCK TO YOU BOTH.

SAFE TRAVELS.

♪♪ >> THERE HAS BEEN NO EVIDENCE, NO COMPLAINT FROM ANY TACO NIGHT COMPANY THAT THEY COULD NOT EXPAND OPERATIONS BECAUSE OF PERMITTING.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU GET THIS.

YOU DON'T -- [Overlapping Conversation] I'VE WATCHED -- I'VE WATCHED MORE IRON ORE FROM BEHIND MY EARS AND BETWEEN MY TOES THAN YOU'VE SEEN IN YOUR LIFE AND I KNOW THE IRON ORE INDUSTRY, I GREW UP IN T AND I'M NOT GOING TO ACCEPT THAT STUFF FROM YOU.

>> ERIC: WE HAD PLANNED TO SPEND THE LAST HALF OF TONIGHT'S PROGRAM WITH A DEBATE BETWEEN THE TOP TWO CANDIDATES FOR SECRETARY OF STATE.

WEEKS AGO, INCUMBENT STEVE SIMON AND CHALLENGER KIM CROCKETT AGREED TO A DEBATE FOR THIS EVENING.

TWO DAYS AGO, STEVE SIMON'S STAFF INFORMED US HE WAS NOT FREE TO JOIN US TONIGHT, AND WASN'T INTERESTED IN RESCHEDULING A JOINT APPEARANCE WITH HIS OPPONENT.

REPUBLICAN HOPEFUL KIM CROCKETT WILL NOW JOIN US FOR A PORTION OF THE TIME WE WOULD HAVE DEVOTED TO A DEBATE.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR PARTICIPATING.

GLAD YOU'RE HERE.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> Eric: I WANT YOU TO EXPLAIN THIS CONTEXT OF THE QUOTE YOU'VE SEEN IN THE COMMERCIALS, I'M THE ELECTION DENIER IN CHIEF.

WHAT'S THAT ALL ABOUT?

>> WELL, I WAS SPEAKING M JEST, THAT WAS A GET-OUT-THE-VOTE EVENT IN A NORTHERN SUBURB WITH A LOT OF REPUBLICANS AND I'M GLAD YOU BROUGHT THAT UP BECAUSE THERE IS THIS WHOLE NARRATIVE GOING ON THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY, CERTAINLY IN MINNESOTA, THAT ANYONE WHO CRITIQUES ELECTIONS IS AN ELECTION DENIER, AND I WANT TO -- YOUR AUDIENCE IS A WELL-EDUCATED ONE AND I WANT TO TAKE US BACK TO JUST 206.

WE COULD GO BACK FURTHER TO MAYBE BUSH V. GORE IN 2000 AND KENNEDY ND NIXON, WHATEVER, LET'S JUST GO TO 2016.

WHERE YOU HAD A LOT OF DEMOCRATS VERY UPSET ABOUT THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION THINKING THAT HILLARY CLINTON WON.

>> THERE WOULDN'T 60 LAWSUIT CHALLENGING IT, EITHER, SO -- >> SO THIS DIDN'T JUST START IN 2020, AND THEN IF YOU HAVE THE WHOLE, OU KNOW, EXPLOSION AFTER 2020 ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE AND -- BUT THIS NARRATIVE HAS DEVELOPED THAT IF YOU CRITIQUE ELECTION LAWS, AND I'VE BEEN A CRITIC OF MINNESOTA'S APPROACH FOR MANY YEARS AS A VOLUNTEER REPUBLICAN LAWYER ON ELECTION DAY AND AS A POLICY PERSON OVER THE YEARS, YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO CRITIQUE WHAT HAPPENED, AND IN 2020, AND WE CAN GET INTO IT -- >> Cathy: YOU CRITIQUED IT AND YOU'VE SAID THAT YOU BELIEVE THE ELECTION WAG RIGGED AND I WILL LEGIMATE, AND STEVE SIMON, WHO WE WERE HOPING TO HAVE HERE TONIGHT -- >> YES, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN NICE.

>> Cathy: SAYINGS THOSE BELIEFS ARE DISQUALIFYING FOR THE ROLE OF THE CHIEF STATE'S CHIEF ELECTION OFFICER.

>> LET ME TELL YOU WHAT I MEANT BY THAT WORD, IT ACTUALLY COMES FROM A OOK, I THINK THE BETTER WORDS ARE PARTISAN ON BEHALF OF Mr. SIMON'S ADMINISTRATION OF OUR ELECTION LAWS HERE IN MINNESOTA, PARTICULARLY IN 2020, DURING THE COVID CRISIS.

>> Eric: DO YOU WANT ANY OF THOSE CHANGES TO REMAIN IN PLACE OR DO YOU WANT THE CONSENT DEPSYCHIATRY STUFF TO GO AWAY?

>> NO, IT DID GO AWAY, IT DID GO AWAY BUT THAT CONSENT DECREE WAS DECLARED UNCONSTITUTIONAL BY THE EIGHT CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS.

NOW, Mr. SIMON AND I ARE BOTH LAWYERS AND I EXPECT US TO FOLLOW THE RULE OF LAW AND RESPECT THE FACT THAT THE LEGISLATURE MAKES OUR ELECTION LAWS, NOT THE SECRETARY OF STATE.

SO THE IDEAS THAT I HAVE, FOR EXAMPLE, LIKE PHOTO I.D.

AND OTHER THINGS ARE THINGS THAT THE LEGISLATURE HAS TO DECIDE, NOT THE SECRETARY.

SO GO TO 2020 -- I'M TRYING TO EXPLAIN THAT COMMENT BAUG IT'S BEEN USED OVER AND OVER.

>> Eric: GO AHEAD.

>> Mr. SIMON WENT INTO A COURT OF LAW, IN A FRIENDLY LAWSUIT WITH THE DEMOCRACY DOCKET AND CHAINED OUR LAWS OUTSIDE THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS.

HE EXTENDED THE ELECTION IN 2020 BY A WEEK, TO NOVEMBER 10TH FOR ABSENTEE BALLOTS TO BE COUNTED AND HE WAIVED TWO CRITICAL MEASURES OF SECURITY.

ONE WAS A POSTMARK AND THE OTHER WAS A WITNESS SIGNATURE ON THAT ABSENTEE BALLOT.

>> Cathy: BUT IN TERMS OF COVID, THOUGH, IN TERMS OF KEEPING PEOPLE SAFE: THAT WAS THE ARGUMENT OF THE PLAINTIFF IN THE INDICATION AND RATHER THAN DEFEND OUR LAWS OR SAY, I CAN'T CHANGE THE LAWS, I'M THE SECT, HE ENTERED INTO A CONSENT DECREE, THAT CONSENT DECREE WAS FOUND TO BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL BY A FEDERAL COURT BECAUSE HE MADE LAW OUTSIDE OF THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESSION AND HE DOESN'T HAVE THE AUTHORITY.

SO THAT'S THE LAWLESS ASPECT OF IT.

>> Eric: OKAY, WEPT TOO GET AS MANY QUESTIONS IN AS WE CAN.

>> RIGHT.

>> Eric: WE HAD JUST UNDER 80% TURNOUT IN 2020.

IS THAT THE RIGHT NUMBER, IS THAT TOO MANY PEOPLE VOTED -- >> I DON'T KNOW, WHAT RIGHT NUMBER THERE'S SUPPOSED TO BE.

MINNESOTA UNDER THE LAST 16 YEARS AND MAYBE EVEN LONGER THAN THAT, HAS EMPHASIZED THIS IDEA THAT TURNOUT SOMEHOW MAKES IT LL WILL HE GET AND THERE COULDN'T BE ANY PROBLEMS BECAUSE SO MANY PEOPLE VOTE.

WELL, I THINK WE VOTE AT THAT RATE AND WE HAVE FOR YEARS, IF YOU GO BACK AND LOOK AT THE NUMBERS, WE HOVER IN THE HIGH 70s, YOU KNOW, NEAR 80 -- WE'VE BEEN DOING THAT FOREVER AND EVERY SECRETARY OF STATE LIKES TO TAKE CREDIT FOR IT.

BUT THAT'S WHAT WE DO IN MINNESOTA, BECAUSE, NUMBER ONE, WE'RE POLITICALLY DIVIDED AND, NUMBER TWO, WE ARE A CIVICALLY MINDED PEOPLE SO THAT'S THE TURNOUT.

I THINK WE COULD IMPROVE TURNOUT EACH MORE IF WE HAD - BETTER ELECTION LAWS, LIKE HAVE VOTERS IDENTIFY THEMSELVES.

IT'S SUCH A POPULAR IDEA.

I TELL YOU, WHEN I DRIVE ACROSS THE STATE, PEOPLE GET OUT OF THEIR SEATS WHEN I'M IN A PARADE AND I HAVE PHOTO I.D.

TO VOTE -- >> Cathy: THAT WAS URNED DOWN BY VOTERS BACK IN 2012 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

>> AT THIS POINT, THAT'S A LONG TIME AGO.

THE DISCUSSION AROUND ELECTIONS HAS BECOME TOXIC.

WHEN YOU TALK TO YOUNG PEOPLE, THEY DON'T WANT TO TALK POLITICS BECAUSE OF THIS DIVISIVENESS AND TO THE EXTENT THAT I'VE CONTRIBUTED TO THAT AT ALL, I PUT OUT A PRESS RELEASE BEFORE I CAME TONIGHT AND I BROUGHT YOU TWO A DRAFT COPY OF IT BECAUSE I WANTED TO CLARIFY SOMETHING.

I WAS INTERVIEWED SUNDAY NIGHT AND I WAS ASKED ON WCCO WHEN I WAS DEBATING THE SECRETARY THAT NIGHT -- >> Eric: WOULD YOU ACCEPT THE RESULTS.

>> Cathy: AND I THINK YOU SAID YOU WOULD HAVE TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS BETWEEN NOW AND THE ELECTION.

BUT I SAID THAT COMMENT WAS MISCONSTRUED.

>> SO IT WAS A TWO-PART QUESTION ON 'CCO.

ONE WAS WOULD I ACCEPT THE RESULTS AND I'M HERE TO SAY TONIGHT ABSOLUTELY, UNLESS SECRETARY SIMON AND I ARE IN A CONTEST UNDER MINNESOTA LAW WHERE THERE'S RECOUNT GOING ON, I ABSOLUTELY WILL ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF HE ELECTION.

BUILT -- >> Eric: LET ME -- OKAY.

SORRY.

>> THE SECOND PART OF THE QUESTION WAS, ARE YOU CONFIDENT ABOUT OR -- THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE ELECTION AND I THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, IT'S FIVE WEEKS OUT, FOR GOODNESS SAKE.

WE MAY HAVE ELECTION SEASON HERE BUT THAT ELECTION IS STILL FIVE WEEKS AWAY, SO CAN WE GET TO NOVEMBER 8th AND I'LL GET BACK TO YOU ON THAT.

>> Eric: LET'S DO IT.

>> DO YOU SEE THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE TWO?

THE REASON I'M RUNNING FOR SECRETARY OF STATE IS I THINK WE HAVE WEAK LAWS AND I THINK THAT Mr. SIMON ADMINISTERS THEM IN A VERY PARTISAN FASHION.

>> Eric: AME-DAY REGISTRATION, DO YOU LIKE IT OR NOT?

>> I'M I NOT A BIG FAN OF SAME-DAY REGISTRATION BUT IF WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THAT, WE ALSO HAVE TO HAVE PROVISIONAL BALLOTS, 47 STATES USE A PROVISIONAL BALLOT IN THAT SITUATION.

Mr. SIMON CALLS IT THE MAYBE PILE AND SAYS, OH, WE CAN'T BURDEN VOTERS WITH -- >> Eric: DO THEY -- >> HAVING TO -- >> Eric: DO THEY GET COUNTED EVER IN OTHER STATES?

>> OF COURSE THEY DO.

YEAH, THERE IS A PROCESS FOR THAT.

OF COURSE WE WANT EVERY ELIGIBLE VOTE TO BE COUNTED.

>> Eric: HOW ABOUT EARLY -- >> Cathy: WHAT ABOUT ABSENTEE VOTING, CHANGES IN THAT, MAIL VOTING?

>> WE NEED TO DO BETTER JOB OF MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE ELIGIBLE VOTERS CASTING THOSE BALLOTS AND THAT'S WHY I WAS SO UPSET WITH THE SECRETARY WHEN HE WENT INTO COURT AND REMOVED SOME OF THE PROTECTIONS THAT WE -- I MEAN, ABSENTEE BALLOTING IS KIND OF A COMPROMISE TO ACCOMMODATE PEOPLE WHO DON'T WANT TO VOTE ON ELECTION DAY.

USED TO BE YOU COULDN'T, YOU'RE IN THE MILITARY, YOU HAVE SURGERY SCHEDULED THAT DAY, A BUSINESS TRIP THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.

NOW, WE HAVE THIS SIX-WEEK PROCESS, IT'S SORT OF LIKE, FOR ANY REASON, EUROPE HAS REJECTED THAT ECAUSE OF PROBLEMS WITH ABSENTEE BALLOTS.

>> Eric: I THINK VIEWERS MAY WANT TO HEAR DIRECTLY ONE MORE THING BEFORE WE GO -- >> YOU MEAN WE'RE OUT OF TIME?

>> YES, MA'AM.

>> Cathy: SEVEN MINUTES GOES BY FAST.

>> DO YOU BELIEVE THAT JOE BIDEN WON NEAR AND SQUARE THE ELECTION OF 2010?

>>IBILITIES THAT HE IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.

>> Eric: DID HE WIN FAIR AND SQUARE?

>> I'M A CITIZEN JUST LIKE YOU, HE WAS CERTIFIED TO BE THE PRESIDENT, HE'S BEEN IN THE WHITE HOUSE AND BOY, HAS IT BEEN A BUMPY RIDE EVER SINCE.

>> Eric: REALLY APPRECIATE YOU COMING IN.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME.

I APPRECIATE IT.

♪ >>CATHY: THERE'S JUST A MONTH TO GO UNTIL THE ELECTION.

AND EVEN FOR MINNESOTA, IT'S AN INTERESTING TIME, TO SAY THE LEAST.

SEVERAL STATEWIDE RACES ARE CLOSE AND NEW CONTROVERSIES EMERGED AS REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER FOUND OUT DURING A DOGGED WEEK ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL.

>> BETTER THAN NOTHING.

>> Mary: CHECKS FOR $487 FOR FRONT-LINE WORKERS ARRIVED JUST AS EARLY VOTING IS UNDERWAY.

>> FOR ME IT'S BEEN REALLY SURREAL.

>> WE ARE STILL EXPERIENCING WORKFORCE SHORTAGES ACROSS SECTORS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO THE WAY THAT WE LEAD OUR LIVES.

WHERE THERE ARE WORKFORCE SHORTAGES, I THINK WE NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO WORKER WAGES AND WORKER SAFETY.

>> Mary: INTERESTING THE TWO LAWMAKERS WHO LED THE ULTIMATELY BIPARTISANSHIP BILL ARE THE LEADING CONTENDERS FOR MAJORITY LEADER IF DEMOCRATS PREVAIL IN THE HOUSE AND SENATE.

>> IT WAS THE BARRIER AND RESISTANCE OF OUR REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES THAT PUT IT AT THIS MOMENT SO THIS ISN'T REALLY COINCIDENCE.

I'M JUST HAPPY THAT WORKERS WILL FINALLY GET A TOKEN OF OUR APPRECIATION.

>> Mary: A NEW POMP SAYS D.F.L.

GOVERNOR WALZ STILL WAY AHEAD AS SENATOR JENSEN WANTS -- >> OVER MY SHOULDER USED TO BE A POLICE DEPARTMENT.

NO LONGER THERE.

GOVERNOR WALZ HAS BEEN MISSING IN ACTION DURING THINKS TEMP.

>> ary: THE KSTP POLL 10 PERCENTAGE POINTS?

>> SOUNDS LIKE WE CLOSED BY HALF AND IT'S GOING TO BE A HECK OF A RACE.

>> Mary: REPUBLICANS WERE SEEING THE TOP OF THE TICKET AS MORE COMPETITIVE AS MORE REAL CLEAR POLITICS CALLED THE RAISE A TOSS-UP, THAT WAS BEFORE SCOTT JENSEN WAS CAUGHT ON CAMERA REPEATING AN INTERNET HOAX.

>> LITTER BOXES IN SOME OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS SO KIDS CAN PEE IN THEM.

>> PEOPLE ARE CABLING FOR SCOTT JENSEN TO APOLOGIZE TO STUDENTS AND COMMUNITY MEMBERS IN MINNESOTA PUBLIC SCHOOLS NOW.

LET ME BE CLEAR.

THERE ARE NO LITTER BOXES IN SCHOOLS.

IT'S SIMPLY NOT TRUE.

>> WHAT SCOTT JENSEN HAS SAID IS REPREHENSIBLE.

>> TRUE LEADERS DON'T FOLLOW HOAXES, DON'T FOLLOW CONSPIRACIES.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT THE LITTER BOX COMMENTS, TEACHERS YESTERDAY CALLED ON YOU TO APOLOGIZE?

>> WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT'S WRONG WITH WHAT'S GOING ON IN OUR SCHOOLS, WHY ARE ACHIEVEMENT GAPS INCREASING.

ARE WE REALLY ON TARGET WITH WHAT'S GOING ON IN EDUCATION, WHY HAS EDUCATIONAL BECOME SO IN DOCKS TRY NATIONAL.

I THINK PARENTS WANT AN EDUCATION PROVIDED TO THEIR KIDS.

>> Mary: BUT WHAT ABOUT THAT SPECIFIC MOMENT?

DO OU OWE ANYONE -- >> IF YOU PUT THE -- PUT IN THE WORDS GENDER NEUTRAL BATHROOM.

WE TALK A HUNDRED WORDS -- THIS IS WHERE THE PRESS HAS TO FOCUS ON THE ISSUE.

>> Mary: ARE YOU WILLING TO SAY THAT'S NOT TRUE AND -- >> I WON'T GET DISTRACTED BY THAT.

I WON'T GET DISTRACTED BY THAT.

>> Mary: THE D.F.L.

PARTY ALSO HAS AN ENORMOUS FINANCIAL ADVANTAGE THEY'RE READY TO RELEASE.

>> I'M SEE AN EVERT BY THE D.F.L.

THAT YOU'VE NEVER SEEN BEFORE.

WHAT MONEY DOES ALLOW US TO DO IS BUILD THE TYPE OF GROUND GAME THAT WE HAVE TO ACTUALLY ENGAGE IN THOSE TYPE OF CONVERSATIONS ON THE DOORS, FACE TO FACE WITH VOTERS THROUGHOUT THIS STATE.

>> YOUR VOTE FOR ATTORNEY GENERAL COMES DOWN TO ONE QUESTION.

DO YOU TRUST KEITH ELSE SON TO KEEP YOU AND YOUR FAMILY SAFE?

>> Mary: THE CLOSE ATTORNEY GENERAL RAISE FEATURES A NEW AD FROM REPUBLICAN JIM SCHULTZ.

>> FIGHT FOR VERYONE TO FEEL SAFER.

>> FORMER AND CURRENT PROSECUTORS ENDORSED INCUMBENT DEMOCRAT ATTORNEY KEITH ELSE SON.

>> HE IS MOTIVATED BY ONE THING AND THAT IS HAVING THE BACKS OF THE PEOPLE OF MINNESOTA AND PROTECTING THEM.

>> Mary: WHO ANNOUNCED A LAWSUIT AGAINST MILLS FLEET FARM FOR ALLEGEDLY ILLEGAL GUN SALES.

>> IT WOULD BE POLITICAL TO NOT DO ANYTHING.

WE'VE GOT TO ACT.

THE FACT THAT THOSE GUNS PURPOSED LIKE THAT COULD END UP BEING USED IN A CRIME, THE FACT THAT GUNS PURCHASED LIKE THAT COULD COST US THE LIFE AFTER I 27-YEAR-OLD IN OUR COMMUNITY IS JUST OFFENSIVE.

>> MY GRANDSON STILL LIVES WITH A BULLET IN HIS HEAD FROM A GUN SHOT WOUND.

>> A MIXTURE OF EMOTIONS REGARDING OUR SIX-YEAR-OLD AT THE TIME FINDING THE GUN IN OUR FRONT YARD.

>> THIS BEAUTIFUL KID RIGHT HERE FOUND A LOADED WEAPON THAT CAME FROM THERE.

>> Mary: WHILE SCHULTZ WENT AFTER ELLISON ON CRIME, THE D.F.L.

HITTING SCHULTZ ON THE ISSUE OF A, BOW.

>> WHEN HE SAYS INCREMENTAL APPROACH, THAT'S JUST FANCY LANGUAGE FOR I'M GOING TO BAN ABORTION AND THAT'S WHAT JIM SCHULTZ HAS VOWED TO DO.

>> IT'S WRONG FOR THE PRIVATE NON-MEDICAL BELIEFS OF A THIRD PARTY TO INTERFERE IN THE SANCTITY OF THE DOCTOR-PATIENT RELATIONSHIP.

>> ABORTION IS RELEVANT TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, THERE IS A CASE RIGHT NOW THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL COULD BE DEFENDING, AND IS IT -- SO YOU REALLY DO HAVE TO DEAL WITH THAT HEAD-ON.

TELL US WHERE YOU'RE AT ON ABORTION AND HOW YOU WOULD HANDLE THAT AS ATTORNEY GENERAL.

>> OH, YEAH, I'VE BEEN VERY EAR COMMISSIONER, THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, WE'RE NOT LEGISLATORS, NOT IN THE BUSINESS OF SETTING POLICY AROUND THAT ISSUE, BUT WE'RE IN THE BUSINESS OF IS ENFORCING AND DEFENDING MINNESOTA LAW AND THE FACT IS THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE ISN'T ABOUT GETTING INTO EVERY POLITICAL FIGHT THAT'S OUT, THERE THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE IS ABOUT ENFORCING AND DEFENDING MINNESOTA LAW AND THAT'S WHAT I'LL DO.

I WON'T BE IN THERE FIGHTING ON -- FOR A CHANGE OH ON ABORTION POLICY, I'M BE THERE FIGHTING TO RESTORE PUBLIC SAFETY TO OUR COMMUNITIES.

>>ERIC: THE FEEDING OUR FUTURE FOOD FRAUD, COMPETING POLLS AND ENDORSEMENTS, DEBATE CONTROVERSIES, NOT TO MENTION KITTY LITTER.

PLENTY TO TALK ABOUT AS THE FALL CAMPAIGN SPEEDS INTO ITS FINAL FOUR WEEKS.

OUR TALKERS TONIGHT, DFL ACTIVIST, LAWYER AND FORMER LEGISLATIVE STAFFER, ABOU AMARA.

ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COUCH IS REPUBLICAN BRIAN MCCLUNG.

FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO GOVERNOR TIM PAWLENTY, NOW IN THE P.R.

BUSINESS.

ABOU, KSTP SURVEY USA, TIM WALZ OVER SCOTT JENSEN BY 10.

THREE OTHER STATEWIDE RACES ARE TOSS-UPS.

ARE WE GOING TO SEE SPLITS TICKETS HERE OR WHAT'S GOING ON?

>> I DON'T THINK SO.

I THINK TWO THINGS ARE HAPPENING, NE IS GOVERNOR WALZ IS CONSOLIDATING HIS BASE.

THE FIRST TIME WE'VE SEEN POLL WITH A MAJORITY AND THAT'S IMPORTANT.

DOWN-TICKET, VOTERS MAY NOT KNOW AS MUCH ABOUT THE CANDIDATES SO YOU'RE SEEING MAYBE VOTERS AS WE GET CLOSER TO ELECTION, REALLY START TO STUDY THE CANDIDATES, LEARN MORE AND IF WE EE POLLING BETWEEN NOW AND THEN, YOU START TO SEE MOVEMENT AND GROWTH AND DISTRIBUTION.

>> Eric: WHAT DID WE LEARN FROM THAT POLL, IF ANYTHING?

>> LIKE YOU SAID, YOU SAW THAT 10-POINT MARGIN BUT THAT IS MOMENTUM FOR JENSEN, THAT SAME POLL A MONTH AGO HAD JENSEN DOWN BY SO YOU SEE THE RACE TIGHTENING AND I WILL THAT WILL BEING MORE BETWEEN NOW AND ELECTION DAY.

THIS WON'T BE A 10-POINT GAP IN THE GOVERNOR'S ELECTION AND THOSE DOWN-BALLOT RACES ARE VERY COMPETITIVE.

AND SO I DO THINK THAT YOU WILL SEE SOME VOTERS WHO MIGHT VOTE FOR TIM WALZ VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS IN SOME OF THE OTHER RACES.

YOU KNOW, MINNESOTANS ARE TICKET-SPLIT YEARS AND WE KNOW THAT PUBLIC SAFETY IS A MAJOR ISSUE SO I DO THINK THAT THAT ATTORNEY GENERAL RACE MIGHT BE THE ONE TO WATCH AND YOU COULD SEE THE PUBLIC WINNING IN THAT RACE BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE A PLACE FOR PEOPLE TO KIND OF TAKE OUT THEIR CONCERNS ON PUBLIC SAFETY.

>> Cathy: WE JUST HAD KIM CROCKETT ON BECAUSE, OF COURSE, STEVE SIMON OPTED NOT TO SHOW UP TONIGHT AND OF COURSE SHE WAS A LITTLE DODGEY ABOUT WHETHER SHE'D ACCEPT THE ELECTION RESULTS WHEN SHE WAS INTERVIEWED ON WCCO RADIO BUT TONIGHT SHE SAYS I WILL ACCEPT THE RESULTS OF THE 2022 ELECTION, WIN OR LOSE.

AS FOR ER CONFIDENCE IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE 2022 ELECTION, THAT'S A DIFFERENT QUESTION SHE'LL ANSWER AFTER THE ELECTION IS OVER.

WHERE DO YOU THINK THIS RACE IS BETWEEN CROCKETT AND SIMON?

>> I THINK IT'S LIKE A LOT OF THINGS, THERE'S THE KIND OF POLARIZATION OF OTERS SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SEEING IN THE POLLS.

I THINK THAT ULTIMATELY THIS IS GOING TO COME DOWN TO GOOD MINNESOTANS BELIEVE THAT THE ELECTIONS ARE BEING FACIAL ADJUDICATED AND THAT'S WHAT CRIPPLE -- ARE BEING FAIRLY ADJUDICATED AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT BUT I DO THINK THAT GENERALLY SPEAKING, MOST MINNESOTANS BELIEVE WE'RE AN ABOVE-BOARD STATE.

I THINK YOU WOULD BE HARD-PRESSED TO CONVINCE MINNESOTANS THAT THERE IS A LOT OF MISCHIEF AROUND OUR ELECTIONS SO I THINK THAT'S GOING TO -- IT'S TOUGH TO OVERTURN AN IN CUT BEEN SECRETARY OF STATE WITHOUT MALPRACTICE HAPPENING ON.

>> THAT WAS A TRUMP SAME, MINNESOTANS WON'T BUY THAT.

I THINK MINNESOTANS UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE ONE OF THE BEST VOTING SYSTEMS IN AMERICA, INTEGRITY.

IT'S NOT RUN BY THE SECRETARY OF STATE, POLITICIANS BUT EVERY 13 DAY PEOPLE ON THE GROUND.

, ACROSS COUNTS NOTE STATE AND I THINK MINNESOTANS SHOULD HAVE CONFIDENCE AND I THINK THAT WILL REFLECT IN THE VOTING.

I EXPECT SECRETARY STEVE SIMON TO BE REELECT FIND.

>> Eric: I WANT TO TALK TO YOU POLLSTERS ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S CAMPAIGN.

TOOK THREE TIMES FOR GOVERNOR WALZ, YOU EVER SCOTT JENSEN TALKING ABOUT FURRIES AND LITTER BOXES IN SCHOOLS.

ARE THEY A LITTLE UNDISCIPLINED HERE ON THE MESSAGE, WHAT'S GOING ON?

>> A LITTLE BIT.

I THINK NUMBER ONE, GOVERNOR WALZ LEARNED AN IMPORTANT LESSON WHICH IS DO NOT CRITICIZE A JUDGE, YOU WILL LOSE.

AND WHEN JUDGE GUTHMAN PUT OUT THAT SENTENCE THROUGHOUT THE -- I THINK THAT'S THE FIRST TIME I'VE SEEN A JUDGE PUT OUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN ALMOST 30 YEARS.

SO BAD CAM, WE SHOULD INVESTIGATE THE JUDGE, THAT'S NOT GOING TO WORK.

I THINK HE GOT OFF-TRACK IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT TRYING TO FIND HIS WAY.

>> Eric: HOW ABOUT JENSEN?

>> SCOTT JENSEN WE KNOW ROM DAY ONE IS GOING TO BE AN UNORTHODOX CANDIDATE, RIGHT?

HE IS SOMEBODY WHO IS, HAVE SPEAKING OFF THE CUFF, WHAT HAS A CERTAIN APPEAL TO PEOPLE IN THAT AY, I MEAN, I THINK MINNESOTANS KIND OF LIKE QUIRKY POLITICIANS TO AN EXTENT BUT OBVIOUSLY THAT GOES TOO FAR, RIGHT?

LIKE THIS IS A DEBUNKED INTERNET HOAX, THERE ARE NO LITTER BOXES IN SCHOOLS SO I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE A JOKE WITH YOUR BASE AT SOME SPEECH, THAT'S NOT THE WAY IT WORKS ANYMORE, IT'S ALL ON TAPE.

>> THESE TWO EXAMPLES ARE VERY DIFFERENT, ONE IS THE GOVERNOR FIGURING OUT WHAT HE'S ATTEMPTED TO SOLVE A PROBLEM, SOMETHING THAT EVERY MINNESOTAN I THINK UNDERSTANDS IS UNDERRABLE -- IS ARCHING, THE FRAUD THAT TOOK PLACE.

YOU HAVE THE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR SAYING THAT CHILDREN ARE USING THE BATHROOM IN LITTER BOXES.

THE IDEA THAT THESE TWO THINGS ARE THE SAME IS JUST BORDERLINE LAUGHABLE AND SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT DISCIPLINE, ONE IS A GOVERNOR WHO WAS DISCIPLINED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED, HOW DO WE FIGURE IT OUT AND MAKE SURE IT DOESN'T HAPPEN AGAIN, AND WE HAVE ANOTHER CANDIDATE WHO'S UNDISCIPLINED AND TALKS ABOUT HONEST FLEE DERANGED THINGS THAT MINNESOTANS I THINK WILL FIND EXTREME.

>> Cathy: WHAT ABOUT DEBATE-GATE, AS IT WERE?

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK OF THE FACT THAT WE DID NOT HAVE A DEBATE TONIGHT BETWEEN Mr. SIMON AND Ms. CROCKETT AND HE GOVERNOR'S ONLY GOING TO BE DEBATING, WHAT, THREE TIMES NOW, I GUESS THIS ELECTION CYCLE.

>> IT'S A REAL SHAME, I THINK IT'S A DISSERVICE TO THE VOTERS OF MINNESOTA AND WHEN GOVERNOR PAWLENTY WAS RUNNING FOR REELECTION IN 2006, THE LAST STATEWIDE CAMPAIGN I WAS INVOLVED N HE DEBATED SEVEN TIMES, RIGHT?

HE WAS THE INCUMBENTS GOVERNOR, WE KNEW THERE WAS SOME RISK AT GETTING OUT THERE IN FRONT OF PEOPLE AS THE INCUMBENT, OF COURSE, BOTH OF THESE OTHER CANDIDATES ARE GOING TO TAKE THEIR SHOTS AT YOU BUT WE FELT IT WAS IMPORTANT TO O THAT AND I THINK ESPECIALLY SOME OF THESE TRADITIONAL DEBATES, LIKE THE "ALMANAC" DEBATE THE FRIDAY BEFORE THE ELECTION, MPR TYPICALLY THE SUNDAY BEFORE THE ELECTION, KSTP HAS ALWAYS DONE A STATEWIDE DEBATE.

THOSE ARE IMPORTANT OPPORTUNITIES FOR VOTERS TO HEAR FROM THE CANDIDATES DIRECTLY.

THE ONLY TIME WE GET TO LARRY FROM THEM UNSCRIPTED, NOT IN A TV AD AND SO I REALLY HINK WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO GEM BACK TO THAT.

SOME OF US HAVE KIND OF JOKED THAT MAYBE WE THEY WOULD A MINNESOTA COMMISSION ON DEBATES LIKE THE PRESIDENTIAL COMMISSION, THAT WOULD ORT OF SET STANDARDS AND PRESSURE CANDIDATES TO DO THAT, BUT I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE THAT HAVING CAN AND IT'S HAPPENING EVERYWHERE.

THIS IS NOT A MINNESOTAN PHENOMENON, THIS IS HAMMING IN STATES AROUND THE COUNTRY WHERE ESPECIALLY INCUMBENTS ARE TRYING TO AVOID HAVING DEBATES.

>> Cathy: ABOU, WHAT IS LOST WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE DEBATES, FOR THE VOIGHTERS?

>> WHEN YOU EVER TWO CANDIDATES OPERATING IN GOOD NATURE HAVING A DEBATE IT'S GOOD FOR VOTERS BECAUSE THEY'RE INFORMED ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING AND WHAT THE CHOICE ULTIMATELY IS BEFORE THEM.

GENERALLY SPEAKING, OBVIOUSLY I'M FOR DEBATES, I THINK MOOR IS ETTER THAN LESS.

I WILL SAY THAT THE THE CANDIDATES YOU'RE SEEING ON THE REPUBLICANS TICKETS I'M AFRAID ARE GIVING SOME MISINFORMATION.

QUITE FRANKLY, I THINK THERE WAS SOME MISINFORMATION SAID TONIGHT BY THE APPLICANT FOR SECRETARY OF STATE.

YOU CAN JUST SAY YES, I'M GOING TO ACCEPT THE RESULTS AND I WON'T QUESTION THE ADMINISTRATION.

SHE TRIED O PAIRS THIS BETWEEN THE SYSTEM ITSELF AND WHETHER THE RESULTS ARE GOING TO BE DIFFERENT.

NO, MINNESOTA HAS A GREAT SYSTEM AND SO I THINK WE NEED TO THINK DEEPLY ABOUT, YES, WE WANT MORE DEBATES, MORE EXCHANGE AND THAT'S IMPORTANT, BUT HOW DO WE MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE NOT PARTICIPATE OF FACILITATING MISINFORMATIONAL TO MINNESOTANS AT A TIME WHEN THEY'RE FOCUSED IN AND THINKING WHO HIM A GOING TO VOTE FOR ON NOVEMBER 8th?

>> Eric: WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE FOCUS THIS WEEK, GOVERNOR WALZ WAS RECORDING COLLEGE KIDS AND SCOTT JENSEN WAS SAYING I HAVE THE POLICE OFFICERS AND PEACE OFFICERS WITH KNEE.

>> I THINK IN PART, RIGHT NOW, AND ABOU IS TALKING ABOUT THIS, THE CONSOLIDATION OF VOTES, THE CANDIDATES REALLY ARE FOCUSED ON THEIR BASE AND DRIVING OUT THEIR BASE.

THAT'S WHY KEITH ELLISON HAD BERNIE SAUNDERS HERE TODAY, THAT'S NOT ABOUT EXPANDING TO THE INDEPENDENTS IN THE MIDDLE, THAT'S ABOUT MOTIVATING YOUR BASE.

BUT I DO THINK MORE BROADLY THAT WHAT WE'RE SEEING RIGHT NOW IS THAT REPUBLICANS SPEAKING TO INDEPENDENTS MORE THAN DEMOCRATS ARE.

DEMOCRATS IN MINNESOTA ARE DOING THIS AS A VOTER TURNOUT ELECTION, TALKING TO THEIR BASE, TRYING TO DRIVE TURNOUT THERE WHEREAS I THINK REPUBLICANS NOW ARE TALKING ABOUT ISSUES LIKE PUBLIC SAFETY AND EDUCATION, THOSE THINGS THAT ARE RESONATING WITH VOTERS WHO HAVEN'T MADE THEIR MINDS UP YET.

SO I DO THINK, THOUGH, THAT THE PUBLIC AFETY ASPECT OF MPPOA'S ENDORSEMENT DOES PLAY TO INDEPENDENTS IN THIS RACE AND I THINK REPUBLICANS ARE DOING A BETTER JOB OF THAT RIGHT NOW.

>> IF YOU LOOK AT THE LARGEST GROUP OF INDEPENDENTS, SUBURBAN, MIDDLE-AGED WOMEN AND WHAT IS THE NUMBER ONE ISSUE WITH THAT DEMOGRAPHIC?

IT'S AABORTION, IT'S CHOICE.

SO I THINK -- I JUST DON'T AGREE, I THINK DEMOCRATS ARE FOCUSED ON TURNING OUT THE BASE, THAT'S CORRECT, BUT ALSO MAKING SURE YOU'RE REACHING OUT TO INDEPENDENT, IN THE SUBURBS AROUND CHOICE, AROUND MAKING SURE THAT PEOPLE TEAM LIKE THEY ARE IN CONTROL OF THEIR LIVES, NOT THE GOVERNMENT, WHICH IS AN ACTUALLY IRONIC POSITION THAT DEMOCRATS ARE NOW ARGUING IN THE SUBURBS ABOUT FREEDOM, AND THE REPUBLICANS ARE TALKING ABOUT HOW THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD HAVE CONTROL OVER WOMEN'S BODIES.

>> Cathy: SO WHAT ARE YOU HEARING ABOUT SOME OF THE CONGRESSIONALLAL RACES, SAY THE SECOND?

>> THE SECOND IS THE RACE IN THEN M. IT IS A TOP-10 RACE NATIONALLY, YOU HAVE THE RNC CHAIR HERE FOR TYLER KISS ENGINEER THIS WEEK.

I THINK IT'S PROBABLY THE SECONDS MOST EXPENSIVE RACE IN THE OUNTRY SO THIS -- I LIVE IN THE, I SEE IT, WITH' GEMMING THE MAILERS, IT'S I ALL AROUND US AND I THINK IT WILL BE A VERY CLOSE RACE.

WE HAD ANOTHER TWIST WITH THE PASSING OF PAUL OGLEBY THIS WEEK.

[Overlapping Conversation] LEGAL MARIJUANA NOW CANDIDATE, SAME THING HAPPENED TWO EARS AGO AND THAT COULD KIND OF MESS THINGS UP IN A WAY, SHE'LL STILL BE ON THE BALLOT BUT I THINK THAT IS REALLY THE RACE THAT'S GETTING A LOT OF ATTENTION HERE.

>> Eric: 30 SECONDS ON CD2?

THAT'S THE TOP RAISE IN AMERICA, I SUSPECT IF KEVIN McCARTHY THE REPUBLICAN LEADER IN CONGRESS WANTS TO BE SPEAKER, IT WILL PROBABLY GO THROUGH THE TWIN CITIES SUBURBS AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A SEAT THEY'LL PAY ATTENTION TO.

I THINK CHOICE, IF YOU'RE GOING TO LOOK AT SEATS ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND CHOICE, ABORTION, I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE THE ISSUE THAT ULTIMATELY GETS ANGIE CRAIG OVER THE TOP IN THE SOUTHEAST SUBURBS.

>> Eric: GOOD STUFF TONIGHT, FELLAS.

THANKS VERY MUCH FOR COMING OVER.

>> ERIC: WE STUFFED 10 POUNDS OF POLITICS INTO A FIVE-POUND SACK TONIGHT.

AND NEXT WEEK WE DO IT AGAIN AS THE CANDIDATES FOR HENNEPIN COUNTY ATTORNEY JOIN US LIVE IN STUDIO FOR A DEBATE.

THE WEEK AFTER THAT, ATTORNEY GENERAL CANDIDATES WILL JOIN US ON THE COUCH.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

BE CAREFUL.

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