>> "ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> ERIC: COMING UP ON "ALMANAC," A DEBATE BETWEEN THE THREE CANDIDATES FOR STATE AUDITOR, A LOOK AT ONGOING BIPARTISAN WORK TO HONOR SPEAKER EMERITA MELISSA HORTMAN, AND MARY LAHAMMER ON RESULTS FROM TUESDAY'S BIG PRIMARY.

>> Mary: RECORD TURNOUT AND A RARE IN-PERSON INTERVIEW WITH THE U.S.

SENATE CANDIDATE IN A RACE THE NATION IS WATCHING.

WE GIVE CONTEXT TO THE PRIMARY ELECTION.

ARE YOU EMBARRASSED TO BE FROM MINNESOTA?

>> NO, I'M NOT.

I WOULDN'T BE RUNNING IF I WERE.

>> MINNESOTA IS NOT FOR SALE.

>> Mary: THAT'S COMING UP ON "ALMANAC."

♪ ♪ ♪ >> "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 1.7 MILLION PEOPLE THROUGH ITS MEMBER-OWNER COOPERATIVES AND CUSTOMERS.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH AND HELPING COMMUNITIES THRIVE.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

AND VANESSA DAYTON, THROUGH THE HEALTHCARE FOR ALL MINNESOTANS FUND, SUPPORTING ACCESSIBLE HEALTHCARE STATEWIDE.

>> ERIC: AFTER A BIG PRIMARY ELECTION ON TUESDAY, IT'S A BIG NIGHT OF POLITICS ON "ALMANAC."

WE START WITH A CONVERSATION FOR THE NEXT 25 OR SO MINUTES WITH THE THREE CANDIDATES FOR STATE AUDITOR.

IT'S THE STATE AUDITOR'S JOB TO AUDIT THE FINANCES OF NEARLY 5,000 UNITS OF GOVERNMENT, INCLUDING COUNTIES, CITIES, TOWNS AND SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

THE AUDITOR ALSO TRACKS FEDERAL SPENDING IN MINNESOTA.

>> CATHY: CURRENT STATE AUDITOR, DFLER JULIE BLAHA, IS NOT RUNNING FOR RE-ELECTION, LEAVING THE SEAT OPEN FOR A NEWCOMER.

THERE ARE THREE CANDIDATES ON THE BALLOT AND THEY ARE ALL HERE TONIGHT.

REPUBLICAN SCOTT JENSEN WON A THREE-WAY PRIMARY RACE ON TUESDAY TO BECOME HIS PARTY'S STANDARD BEARER.

JENSEN IS A FORMER STATE SENATOR WHO LOST HIS BID FOR THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE FOUR YEARS AGO.

DEMOCRAT ZACK FILIPOVICH RAN UNOPPOSED IN TUESDAY'S PRIMARY AFTER WINNING THE DFL ENDORSEMENT AT THE STATE PARTY CONVENTION EARLIER THIS SUMMER.

FILIPOVICH IS AN ACCOUNTANT AND FORMER DULUTH CITY COUNCILOR.

AND JAY REEVES IS HERE, ENDORSED BY THE FORWARD INDEPENDENCE PARTY.

REEVES HIGHLIGHTED HIS YEARS OF ARMY SERVICE AND BACKGROUND AS A UNION MEMBER WHEN LAUNCHING HIS CAMPAIGN.

QUICK NOTE BEFORE WE DIVE IN.

THIS WILL BE AN ALMANAC-STYLE DEBATE.

NO OPENING OR CLOSING STATEMENTS NOR TIMED RESPONSES.

IT'LL BE A FREE-FLOWING CONVERSATION ALL OF US AND IT STARTS RIGHT NOW.

THANK YOU, ONE AND ALL, FOR BEING HERE.

APPRECIATE YOUR TIME.

JAY REEVES, I'M GOING TO BEGIN WITH YOU.

>> GREAT.

>> Cathy: NOW, I HAD A LITTLE BIT OF A DEFINITION IN WHAT THE STATE AUDITOR DOES IN THAT INTRODUCTION, UNDER STATE LAW, THE STATE AUDITOR LOOKS AT THE FINANCES, AUDITS THE FINANCES OF CITIES, COUNTIES, SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE STATE AUDITOR SHOULD BE DOING THAT IT'S NOT DOING RIGHT NOW?

>> TO BE HONEST, I THINK THAT WHAT THEY SHOULD BE DOING IS THEY SHOULD BE COMING AT IT WITH A MORE PROACTIVE APPROACH.

SO THE TECHNOLOGY PIECE IS MISSING, AND WHAT THEY'RE NOT DOING IS THEY'RE NOT GOING AFTER THE PROACTIVE SYSTEMS AND THEIR RELATIVE APPROACH IS, WE'RE GOING TO JUST AUDIT THE SYSTEMS, WE'RE GOING TO AUDIT THE CITIES AND COUNTIES AND TOWNSHIPS, BUT NOT ALL OF THEM.

MOST OF THEM ARE BEING DONE BY PRIVATE ORGANIZATIONS.

>> Cathy: PRIVATE CPAs.

>> PRIVATE CPAs, SO IT BECOMES MORE OF AN OVERSIGHT.

WHAT I WANT TO DO IS GET IT BACK TO MORE OF AN AUDITING AGENCY AND DOING THE DATA ANALYTIC PIECE TO MAKE SURE WE CAN FIND ANY OF THOSE ANOMALIES AND DEVIATIONS.

>> Cathy: SCOTT JENSEN?

>> I THINK THE AUDITOR IS GETTING HUNG UP ON JUST NUMBERS.

AND I THINK IN MEDICINE, IF I LOOK AT LAB RESULTS, YOU CAN HAVE AI INTERPRET LAB RESULTS.

I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK BEHIND IT, SEE WHAT THE STORY IS.

AND I HINK YOU HAVE TO DO IT BEFORE YOU HIT THE DEADLINE.

YOU SHOULDN'T BE FINDING A LINE ITEM ON A BUDGET, SPENDING $100 MILLION A YEAR WHEN IT WAS BUDGETED FOR $4 MILLION, AFTER THE $100 MILLION HAS BEEN SPENT.

YOU SHOULD BE ICKING THAT UP IN REAL TIME.

I THINK WE NEED TO BE MORE PROACTIVE.

WE NEED TO HAVE PEOPLE RECOGNIZE, THE AUDITOR IS MORE THAN JUST A DATA ANALYST.

THIS IS SOMEONE WHO'S METHODICALLY AND SYSTEMATICALLY EXAMINING WHAT'S BEFORE THEM, WHETHER IT'S POLICIES, WHETHER IT'S COMPLIANCE TOOLS, WHETHER IT'S DATA POINTS.

AND I THINK IN MY LIFE, I'VE HAD THE CHANCE TO WORK WITH A LOFT ACCOUNTANTS, I'VE BEEN THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS, I'VE BEEN CHAIRING A BOARD OF DIRECTORS FOR AN ACCOUNTING FIRM, I'VE BEEN AN AUDIT COMMITTEE CHAIR FOR A BILLION-DOLLAR BANK, AND I FOUND THE BEST PEOPLE TO BE THE ONES WHO ARE ASKING THE QUESTIONS AND SAYING, LISTEN, I'M NOT BUYING WHAT EVERYBODY ELSE IS SELLING ON THIS.

WE GOTTA GO DEEPER, FIND THE STORY, FIGURE UT HOW THIS HAS HAPPENED.

>> YOU KNOW, STATE AUDITOR'S OFFICE IS HERE TO OVERSEE $56 BILLION OF LOCAL GOVERNMENT SPENDING.

THAT IS THE CHARGE OF THIS OFFICE.

I'M THE ONLY ACCOUNTANT IN THIS RACE.

AND I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE.

AND FROM THAT EXPERIENCE I KNOW THAT WE HAVE AN ACCOUNTANT SHORTAGE IN THIS STATE.

75% OF CPAs WILL BE RETIRING IN THE NEXT FIVE TO SEVEN YEARS.

THAT'S UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA STUDY THAT WAS DONE A FEW YEARS AGO.

AND, SO, WE NEED TO HELP PREPARE LOCAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT FOR THAT LARGE, LARGE CHALLENGE THAT WILL BE COMING AT US, AT ALL OF US.

AND, SO, WHEN WE LOOK AT MAKING SURE THAT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS AND LOCAL TAXPAYERS ARE PROTECTED, WE NEED TO BE PARTNERING WITH THOSE LOCAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT AS THE STATE AUDITOR'S OFFICE TO HELP MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE PREPARING FOR THAT CHALLENGE.

>> I TAKE ISSUE WITH YOU ON THAT, ZACK.

I THINK THE REASON E HAVEN'T HAD AN ACCOUNTANT BE THE STATE AUDITOR FOR 50 YEARS IS BECAUSE THIS ISN'T ABOUT TRYING TO MATCH UP ONE ACCOUNTANT WITH THE JOB DESCRIPTION.

THIS IS A LEADERSHIP EXECUTIVE POSITION THAT HAS TO BUILD A TEAM THAT CAN GET IT DONE.

I MEAN, YOU'VE GOT 100 EMPLOYEES, $10 TO $20 ILLION BUDGET.

THIS ISN'T ABOUT SAYING, WELL, LET'S MAKE SURE THAT THE MINNESOTA VIKINGS FOOTBALL COACH IS THE BEST FOOTBALL PLAYER.

THAT DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY.

THIS IS ABOUT BUILDING A TEAM, MAKING PEOPLE RESPOND TO THE MISSION, AND LITERALLY DO THEIR JOB.

AND IF THEY'RE NOT DOING THEIR JOB, THEY'VE GOT TO BE DISMISSED.

>> THAT MEANS THAT ANYBODY CAN BE THAT -- THAT HAS LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE SHOULD BE IN THAT ROLE, RIGHT?

SO FOR ME, I'VE GOT MILITARY EXPERIENCE, I'VE GOT SENIOR EXECUTIVE MILITARY EXPERIENCE, BEING AT THE DEFENSE HEALTH AGENCY, WHERE I CREATED DATA DASHBOARDS FOR THE COVID-19 CRISIS THAT WE HAD, AND I HAD TWO WEEKS TO DO IT ON ZERO BUDGET, RIGHT, SO I CAN BRING THAT EXPERTISE THAT I HAVE AND THAT LEADERSHIP EXPERIENCE.

AND THAT AS NOT A SHORT TIMELINE THAT WE HAD BECAUSE OF ANYTHING OTHER THAN THE WORLD PANDEMIC.

SO IT NEEDED TO BE DONE NOW, WE NEED LEADERS THAT ARE ABLE TO STEP IN NOW ON DAY ONE AND LEAD MULTIPLE -- THIS WAS A WORLDWIDE ENTERPRISE EFFORT IN THE MATTER OF TWO WEEKS, ZERO DOLLARS SPENT, THAT'S THE EXECUTIVE LEADER THAT WE NEED.

>> I AM SO PROUD OF MY LEADERSHIP ABILITIES.

I HELP LEAD AN ORGANIZATION RIGHT OW, A NONPROFIT UP IN DULUTH.

WE DO A LOFT WORK IN RURAL -- A LOT OF WORK IN RURAL ECONOMIES, RURAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT AND SMALL BUSINESS WORK, HELPING TO BUILD ECONOMIES IN RURAL MINNESOTA.

>> Cathy: YOU MENTIONED THAT CPAS ARE RETIRING OR RETIRING SOON, RIGHT?

I THINK, Mr.

REEVES, YOU BROUGHT THIS UP, STATE LAW ALLOWS PRIVATE CPAs TO AUDIT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

DOESN'T SOUND LIKE YOU'RE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.

>> NOT ALL OF THEM.

I MEAN, THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT GET MISSED AND THERE'S SOME IDENTIFIABLE INFORMATION THAT IS THERE.

SO, IF YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE AUDITS, THEY'RE JUST -- I DON'T KNOW THAT THE STATE AUDITOR'S DIGGING IN ON THOSE AUDITS AS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO.

THEY'RE CHECKING THE BOXES, ONE TO ONE, MAKING SURE THAT IT'S DONE IN COMPLIANCE, WHICH THEY'RE BEING DONE.

BUT IS THAT ENOUGH?

I DON'T THINK IT IS.

I THINK WE NEED TO DIG IN WITH THE DATA ANALYTICS PIECE AND SOMEBODY WHO'S GOT THAT EXPERTISE TO DO THAT.

>> Cathy: ARE YOU SAYING, THEN, STATE AUDITOR SHOULD TAKE MORE OF AN ACTIVE ROLE BECAUSE THE CPAs ARE RETIRING?

I'M NOT SURE WHERE YOU'RE -- >> YEAH.

SO, THE RISK OF ALL THE RETIREMENTS OF THE ACCOUNTING CLIFF IS, ALL THESE LOCAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT HAVE PROFESSIONAL STAFF KEEPING TRACK OF ALL OF OUR UNITS OF GOVERNMENT.

I'M THE ONLY PERSON ON THIS COUCH WHO'S ACTUALLY BEEN IN THAT ROLE AS AN ACCOUNTANT WORKING IN A LOCAL GOVERNMENT FINANCE ACCOUNTING OFFICE.

SO I KNOW THE CHALLENGES THAT THESE FOLKS ARE FACING.

AND I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE CRITICAL TO MOVE FORWARD.

THESE ARE THE BOOTS ON-THE-GROUND PEOPLE THAT ARE WORKING EVERY SINGLE DAY TO MAKE SURE THAT LOCAL TAX DOLLARS ARE BEING ACCOUNTED FOR AND REPORTED CORRECTLY TO THE STATE AWE TORE'S OFFICE.

AUDITOR'S OFFICE.

>> I DON'T BELIEVE MINNESOTANS ARE LOOKING FOR ANOTHER ACCOUNTANT TO LEAD MORE ACCOUNTANTS.

I THINK THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A LEADER WHO'S GOING TO COME INNING DIG IN, DO THE DATA ANALYTICS COME IN.

WE'RE TALKING ABOUT T.J., WHEN BOTH GOVERNORS COME IN, THEY'RE GOING TO GO TO THE TECHNOLOGY, 21st CENTURY.

WE NEED SOMEBODY WHO CAN TALK THE TALK, WALK THE WALK, AND I'M THAT GUY.

>> Eric: DOES IT LEAVE THE STATE AUDITOR AS EING MORE OF A ARTNER WITH LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, MORE OF A WATCHDOG OR A COMBINATION?

>> I THINK ONE THING A LOT OF PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE, IN 2021, THE STATE LEGISLATURE, AT THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE OFFICE OF THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR, BECAME RESPONSIBLE PARTY FOR THE SINGLE STATEWIDE AUDIT FEDERALLY.

SO WE NOW HAVE THE ABILITY AS THE STATE AUDITOR, IF YOU SEE $5 BILLION COMING FROM THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, AND YOU CAN ONLY TRACK IN CITIES, COUNTIES, TOWNS, SCHOOL DISTRICTS, $4 BILLION, YOU'VE GOT LEAKAGE OF A BILLION, YOU NEED TO RAISE THE FLAG, HEY, WHAT'S GOING ON HERE, YOU NEED TO COLLABORATE WITH YOUR MMB COMMISSIONER, YOUR LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR, YOU'VE GOT TO SAY SOMETHING'S WRONG HERE.

THE EXAMPLE THAT I LOOKED AT WAS, IN FEEDING OUR FUTURE, WE SAW THAT THEY DID NOT TURN IN THEIR PAPERWORK ON TIME.

ACTUALLY SOME OF THE VENDORS, FOR FEEDING OUR FUTURE, LOST THEIR TAX-EXEMPT STATUS, AND, YET, THE STATE AUDITOR SIGNED OFF ON FEEDING OUR FUTURE'S FINANCIAL DOCUMENTS EVEN THOUGH THEY WEREN'T THERE.

IT WAS ON PAGE 57.

>> THAT'S NOT THE STATE AUDITOR.

>> JULIE BLAHA SIGNED OFF ON THE STATE AUDITOR FOR THE FEEDING OUR FUTURE, AND YOU CAN LOOK AT THAT AND YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE ALL THE DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED.

THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN A RED FLAG.

YOU'VE GOT TO GO INVESTIGATE THAT.

WE COULD HAVE MAYBE FOUND FEEDING OUR FUTURE A LOT SOONER, THE FRAUD, IF WE HAD BEEN DIGGING IN A LITTLE BIT MORE AND SEEING THE STORY BEHIND THE NUMBERS.

>> WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, THE STATE AUDITOR'S PRIMARY ROLE IS TO HELP MAKE SURE THAT LOCAL TAXES ARE ACCOUNTED FOR AND GOING TO THE RIGHT PLACES.

AND, YOU KNOW, YOU SAID IT YOURSELF, Dr.

JENSEN, THAT WE HAVE HAD THIRD-PARTY VENDORS DOING A LOT OF THIS WORK.

I THINK WE NEED TO BRING SOME OF THAT WORK BACK IN TO NOT HAVE THIRD PARTIES DO THAT WORK, BUT LOCAL GOVERNMENTS DO THAT WORK.

AGAIN, THE PRIME EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, WITH COVID-19, FEEDING OUR FUTURE, IF THAT WORK WAS DONE BY SCHOOL CAFETERIAS, THEY'RE ALREADY BEING AUDITED BY THE STATE AUDITOR'S OFFICE, THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN CAUGHT A LOT SOONER.

AND I AM SO, SO GLAD THAT THE OFFICE OF LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR CAUGHT AND NOW THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE IS PROSECUTING SO MANY OF THOSE PEOPLE.

BECAUSE FRAUD -- >> YOU'RE GOING TO BE GROWING GOVERNMENT WITH WHAT YOU JUST SAID.

YOU WANT TO BE DOING MORE HANDS-ON OUT OF THE STATE AUDITOR'S OFFICE.

>> FOR LOCAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT.

>> THERE'S MORE THAN 3,000 LOCAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT.

YOU WANT TO GROW GOVERNMENT.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE STATE AUDITOR'S OFFICE OVER THE LAST TEN YEARS, THE BUDGET HAS GONE UP ENORMOUSLY, THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE, WE JUST KEEP GROWING GOVERNMENT, WE GET FARTHER AND FARTHER AWAY FROM LOCAL GOVERNMENT UNITS AND WE CAN'T SUPPORT THEM.

>> I MIGHT BE BREAKING SOME NEWS HERE, SIR.

I'M JUST TELLING YOU GUYS.

RIGHT NOW, THE STATE AUDITOR'S NO LONGER GOING TO BE DOING THE FEDERAL EXPENDITURES.

>> THAT'S TRUE.

>> AS OF NEXT YEAR, THEY'RE DONE.

SO THAT BUDGET PIECE, THAT TIME AND THAT HR PIECE IS NOW NO LONGER THERE.

THEY'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO CONCENTRATE ON THE LOCAL GOVERNMENTS OF WHICH THEY'RE TASKED TO DO.

SO THAT'S WHAT OUR ROLES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE, WE'RE GOING TO GET BACK TO THE LOCAL AND COUNTIES AND TOWNSHIPS AND EVERYTHING ELSE AND REALLY DIG IN ON THEM AND REALLY SUPPORT THEM BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN FELT LIKE THEY'RE UNSUPPORTED COMPLETELY.

MINNESOTANS ARE TIRED, THEY'RE FED UP, THEY'RE GROSSED OUT BY WHAT'S GOING ON, AND WE NEED SOMEBODY IN THERE WHO'S GOING TO HOLD EVERYBODY ACCOUNTABLE.

>> Eric: WITH THE OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL COMING N BOARD 2027, HOW DOES THE STATE AUDITOR DOVETAIL, IF IT DOES AT ALL, WITH ALL OF THIS NEW ENFORCEMENT THAT WE HAVE, ALL THE NEW PREVENTION STUFF?

>> I AM I'M SO HAPPY THAT -- I'M SO HAPPY THAT THE OFFICE OFE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL GOT PASSED PRIMARILY BY DEMOCRATS IN THE LEGISLATURE.

I THINK THE OFFICE OF STATE AUDITOR IS HERE FOR LOCAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT.

THAT'S WHERE THE FOCUS SHOULD BE.

IF WE START SAYING THE STATE AUDITOR IS GOING TO START LOOKING AT STATE AGENCIES, THAT SORT OF THING, WE'RE GOING TO LOSE FOCUS OF THE $56 BILLION OF LOCAL TAXES, THESE ARE THE MONEYS THAT ARE CLOSEST TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US AND ALL OF YOUR VIEWERS.

AND THEY DESERVE TO HAVE A STATE AUDITOR THAT'S FOCUSED ON THEM.

>> Eric: WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?

HOW WOULD YOUR OFFICE BE INTEGRATED WITH THE LARGEST PREVENTION EFFORT?

>> I THINK YOU HAVE TO COLLABORATE.

I MEAN, WE'VE BEEN FORTUNATE IN MINNESOTA TO HAVE JIM NOBLES HEAD UP THE OFFICE OF THE LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR FOR YEARS.

AND I THINK JUDY ANDALL'S DOING NICE JOB.

WE NEED TO WORK WITH THE MMB COMMISSIONER, WE NEED TO WANTED THE REORGANIZATION THAT HAPPENED IN THE -- NEED TO UNDERSTAND THE REORGANIZATION THAT HAPPENED IN THE 1970s.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THE STATE AUDITOR O ABSOLUTELY BE THERE TO SUPPORT SCHOOLS, COUNTIES,S TOWNSHIPS, SCHOOL DISTRICTS, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS, WE'VE SEEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THINGS ARE BEING GLOSSED OVER.

AND, AGAIN, I THINK THAT FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS, WE'VE HAD ONE PARTY BASICALLY RUNNING THE SHOW.

AND I THINK THAT, ACK, YOU BRING UP, THE DEMOCRATS PASSING INSPECTOR GENERAL.

WELL, THAT'S A LITTLE BIT DISINGENUOUS BECAUSE I THINK WE HAD THE SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE IS A REPUBLICAN, SO I THINK LET'S GIVE CREDIT WHERE CREDIT IS DUE.

AND I WOULD SAY THIS ABOUT THE INSPECTOR GENERAL.

WHEN YOU GROW GOVERNMENT, YOU DO ALSO POTENTIALLY GROW THE OPPORTUNITY FOR BLAME SOMEONE ELSE, DO THIS AND THAT.

SO FROM MY PERSPECTIVE, I THINK WE NEED TO BE VERY CAREFUL ABOUT GROWING GOVERNMENT, I THINK WHAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW IS WE'VE HAD CHAOS, AND WE'VE HAD SLOPPINESS IN THE STATE AUDITOR'S OFFICE.

I THINK IT'S GOT TO BE TIGHTENED UP.

I THINK WE NEED TO GO AFTER EXPOSING THE FRAUD.

WE NEED O ELEVATE THE WHISTLEBLOWER, WHEN THEY COME FORWARD AND SAY THERE'S A PROBLEM, WE SHOULDN'T BE THREATENING WITH THEM WITH THEIR JOB.

>> Eric: THE AUDITOR SERVES ON BOARDS AND COMMISSIONS, INCLUDING THE STATE INVESTMENT BOARD.

I WONDER, FROM TIME TO TIME, IT COMES UP, SHOULD WE BE INVESTING IN CERTAIN COUNTRIES, USED TO BE SOUTH AFRICA, NOW IT'S ISRAEL, WHAT KIND OF PHILOSOPHY WILL YOU HAVE TOWARD THE BOARD OF INVESTMENT?

>> YEAH, THE STATE BOARD OF INVESTMENT IS AN IMPORTANT ROLE THAT THE STATE AUDITOR PLAYS.

AND FOR ME, I THINK WE NEED TO BE VERY VERY PRUDENT IN HOW WE MAKE SOME OF THOSE DECISIONS.

THERE ARE PENSIONS TIED UP WITH THE STATE BOARD OF INVESTMENT.

THESE ARE FOLKS WHO HAVE WORKED THEIR ENTIRE LIVES AND THEY DESERVE A GREAT RETIREMENT.

>> BUT IF THAT'S THE CASE, ZACK, THEN WHY DID YOU SIGN A PLEDGE THAT SAID THAT WHEN YOU'RE FOCUSING ON HOW THESE INVESTMENTS AND THESE RETIREMENT FUNDS ARE DOING, YOU WANT TO FOCUS ON DIVERSITY AND THE DEI, YOU SAID THAT YOU WANTED TO MAKE CERTAIN HAT WE WERE NOT AS A STATE INVESTING IN THINGS THAT WEREN'T MEETING SOME POLITICAL MEASUREMENT OR METRIC.

YOU SIGNED A PLEDGE THAT SAID THAT.

I THINK THE TEACHERS AND PUBLIC EMPLOYEES, THEY WANT THEIR RETIREMENT FUNDS TO DO WELL.

>> YEAH.

WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE HAVE -- WE HAVE TO CONTROL THAT RISK AND WE HAVE TO MONITOR THE RISKINESS OF SOME OF THESE INVESTMENTS AND THAT IS THE JOB OF THE STATE BOARD.

EVERY PERSON ON THAT STATE BOARD HAS THAT FIDUCIARY RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT ALL OF OUR MONEY, THE RESERVE DOLLARS OF THE STATE AND THOSE PENSION DOLLARS ARE INVESTED PRUDENTLY.

>> Cathy: I WANT TO GET JAY REEVES IN HERE.

I WANT TO SAY ONE THING, I'M GOING TO LEAVE THAT FINANCIAL PIECE TO THE PROFESSIONALS THAT DECIDE FOR THE LONG TERM WHAT'S BEST FOR THE FINANCIAL ORGANIZATION.

>> Cathy: UT YOU'RE ON HAT BOARD IF YOU'RE THE STATE AUDITOR.

>> OF COURSE, OF COURSE.

I'LL TAKE EVERYTHING TO HEART, MAKING SURE THAT WE MAKE THE RIGHT DECISIONS AS A WHOLE FOR WHAT'S BEST FOR THEM.

BUT I'M NOT GOING TO SIT HERE AND SAY ANY OF THESE HYPOTHETICALS.

IT DOESN'T MAKE NY SENSE TO DO THAT.

RIGHT NOW WHAT WE NEED TO DO, WE NEED TO PROTECT THE TAXPAYER DOLLARS AND THOSE THAT ARE IN THOSE PENSION FUNDS AS WELL, WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE.

I NEED TO GO BACK TO ONE THING THAT YOU GUYS MENTIONED BEFORE, I DIDN'T GET A CHANCE TO CHIME IN, THAT'S THE LEGISLATURE PART OF, I WANT TO PRESENT ON AY ONE A BILL WITH THE -- WITH COMBINED EFFORTS THAT WE AUTOMATICALLY MANDATE THAT ANY NEW PROGRAM, FUNDING OF ANY SORT THAT IS OBLIGATED FUNDS THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE IN ANY SORT OF WAY ALL THE WAY DOWN TO THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE'S NO UNFUNDED MANDATES TO LOCAL GOVERNMENT, THAT THE STATE AUDITOR, LEGISLATIVE AUDITOR, INSPECTOR GENERAL, A.G., MMB, D.E.E.D., WHOEVER IS GOING TO BE IN CHARGE OF ALL OF THOSE PROGRAMS NEEDS TO BE INVOLVED FROM ITS INCEPTION THROUGH ITS IMPLEMENTATION TO ITS SUNSET.

WE CAN'T HAVE -- NO LONGER BE THIS ORGANIZATION, THIS LEGISLATURE OR STATE THAT JUST PUSHES BILLS THROUGH THE LEGISLATURE AND THEN SAYS, FIGURE OUT HOW TO FIX IT ON THE BACK END.

THAT'S NOT HOW WE'RE GOING TO DO IT.

WE'RE OING TO PRESENT IT IN A PROACTIVE APPROACH.

>> Cathy: Dr.

JENSEN BROUGHT UP THIS PLEDGE YOU SIGNED.

AND THANK YOU, I APPRECIATE THAT.

>> YOU AND PEGGY FLANAGAN BOTH SIGNED IT.

BECAUSE IT SURPRISED ME THAT YOU'D HIT YOUR WAGON SO PROMINENTLY TO PEGGY.

IN IT, IT TALKED ABOUT THE INVESTMENTS THAT ERE MADE NEED TO BE PARSED IN TERMS OF WHAT ARE THEY RELATED TO IN TERMS OF POLITICS.

IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU WERE POLITICIZING THE INVESTMENTS THAT WOULD BE MADE FOR TEACHERS AND PEOPLE -- PUBLIC EMPLOYEES.

>> NO.

THAT PLEDGE WAS MADE A WHILE BACK NOW.

>> BUT YOU DO REMEMBER IT?

>> YES.

>> OKAY.

>> AND THAT IS TO HELP MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE TAKING A HOLISTIC VIEW OF THESE INVESTMENTS, MAKING SURE THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT EVERY ASPECT, AS MUCH AS WE CAN, AND S WE TAKE ADVICE FROM THE PROFESSIONAL STAFF OF THE STATE BOARD OF INVESTMENT.

>> SHOULDN'T THE PRIORITY BE FINANCIAL PERFORMANCE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND THE PRIORITY ALWAYS WILL BE.

>> Cathy: JAY REEVES, DO YOU WANT TO CHIME IN ON THIS AT ALL?

>> LEAVE IT TO THE PROFESSIONALS.

WE'LL TAKE THEIR ADVICE, THEY'RE THE PROFESSIONALS, THEY'RE THE ONES THAT DO IT.

WE CAN'T MAKE TASTY DECISIONS ON SOMETHING THAT'S HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IN THE MOMENT BECAUSE IT COULD NEGATIVE HGIVELY AFFECT THE FUTURE OF THEIR RETIREMENT FUNDS.

HASTY MANNER.

THIS IS A PROBLEM IN MINNESOTA.

WE CHANGE ON A DIME, MAKE DECISIONS TOO QUICKLY, COMPASSION GETS IN THE WAY OF COMPLIANCE, THAT'S A PROBLEM.

>> WE DIDN'T MAKE DECISIONS TOO QUICKLY WHEN IT CAME TO FRAUD.

THERE'S PLENTY OF BLAME TO GO AROUND.

WE THEY'D TO REMEMBER, THIS IS AN EXECUTIVE POSITION WE'RE RUNNING FOR.

AND THAT MEANS THAT WE NEED TO BE READY TO LEAD.

SO I THINK WHEN IT COMES -- >> I'M READY.

>> WHEN YOU HAVE REPORTS GIVEN TO OU, IF YOU'RE ON THAT EXECUTIVE COUNCIL ITH THE FOUR OTHER EXECUTIVE OFFICERS IN MINNESOTA, YOU CAN'T DODGE AND WEAVE AND SAY, WELL, I'M NOT GONNA, I'M NOT GONNA MAKE A DECISION, I'M GOING TO LEAVE IT TO THE PROFESSIONALS, YOU GET THEIR REPORTS, YOU MAKE A DECISION.

>> 'VE BEEN IN THE MILITARY, MILITARY ERVICE, 7 YEARS, RETIRED R MAJOR, I CAN MAKE A DECISION WHEN I NEED TO.

>> GOOD.

>> I DON'T NEED SOMEONE TO TELL ME ONE OR ANOTHER.

I'LL MAKE AN EDUCATED DECISION, IT'S GO TO BE RIGHT FOR THE MISSION, MOVING FORWARD OR EVERYBODY, ALL MINNESOTANS, NOT FOR ANY SPECIFIC INDIVIDUAL.

>> Eric: LAND EXCHANGE BOARD IS ALSO FOR THE AUDITOR.

I WONDER WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO BE THINKING ABOUT AS YOU LOOK AT THE MINING VERSUS WATER ISSUES IN THE NORTHEAST.

>> YEAH, WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE ON THAT.

THERE ARE FANTASTIC FOLKS WORKING AT THE MINNESOTA DNR AND MPCA.

WE'RE GOING O LOOK AT THE SCIENCE AND MAKE SURE THAT THINGS ARE RIGHT FOR EVERY PROJECT ACROSS MINNESOTA.

>> Eric: WHAT WOULD YOU SAY, YOU'RE PRO MINING, PRO ENVIRONMENT, A COMBINATION?

>> THERE'S A COMBINATION, THERE'S A FINE BALANCE THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE THERE.

I THINK FOR ME, YOU KNOW, I GREW UP N DULUTH.

MY FAMILY'S FROM THE IRON RANGE.

MY GRANDMOTHER, SHE WAS THE VALEDICTORIAN OF CHERRY HIGH SCHOOL, AND, SO, -- >> Cathy: VERY SMALL PLACE.

>> VERY SMALL PLACE, YES.

MY GRANDFATHER IS FROM EVELETH.

SO WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE FOLKS UP THERE HAVE THE ECONOMY AND THE JOBS THAT THEY NEED TO LIVE A FANTASTIC LIFE.

WE ALSO NEED TO PROTECT OUR ENVIRONMENT.

>> BUT YOU'RE TALKING OUT BOTH SIDES OF YOUR MOUTH, ZACK.

WE'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE HAT THE PEOPLE UP NORTH CAN HAVE A FANTASTIC LIFE.

YOUR PARTY, PEGGY FLANAGAN, YOU GUYS HAVE BEEN SHUTTING DOWN A TRILLION-DOLLAR ECONOMY THAT'S JUST SITTING THERE.

WE'VE BEEN DOING MINING FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS IN THIS STATE.

AND NOW YOU'RE SORT OF SAYING, WELL, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE A FANTASTIC LIFE, WELL, HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET THAT FOR THEM?

>> > I MEAN, A LOT OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE SCRAPING BY TRYING TO AFFORD GAS AND GROCERIES.

WE NEED TO UNLEASH THEIR ECONOMY, TOO.

>> YOU BRING UP A GOOD POINT, Dr.

JENSEN, COSTS HAVE BEEN GOING UP FOR EVERYBODY IN THIS COUNTRY, THANKS IN LARGE PART TO ALL OF THE TARIFFS THAT WE SEE COME OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE.

>> I DON'T THINK YOU CAN BLAME IT ON TARIFFS.

>> YOU ARE RIGHT.

THE WAR IN RAN.

THESE AFFECT ALL OF US LOCALLY.

AND THEY AFFECT OUR LOCAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT.

WHICH IS WHAT THIS JOB IS ABOUT.

LOCAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT ARE UNDER MORE STRAIN NOW THAN EVER BECAUSE OF THESE RISING COSTS.

AND THIS OFFICE IS HERE TO PROTECT LOCAL TAXPAYERS.

CAN I ASK -- >> THAT'S WHAT I WILL DO AS THE ONLY ACCOUNTANT IN THIS RACE.

>> Cathy: THANKS FOR BRINGING UP LOCAL GOVERNMENTS.

THERE ARE SOME SMART PEOPLE IN ACADEMIA WHO THINK THAT THERE SHOULD BE LOCAL OVERNMENT PERFORMANCE AUDITS, NOT ONLY OF FINANCES, BUT CYBERSECURITY, FISCAL STRESS, INFRASTRUCTURE.

DO YOU SEE LIKE THE STATE AUDITOR MAYBE DIVING INTO SOMETHING LIKE THIS?

LOCAL GOVERNMENT PERFORMANCE AUDITS.

>> I CAN ANSWER THAT.

BECAUSE I'M THE TECHNICAL GUY HERE.

>> Cathy: YEAH.

>> SO THAT WOULD HAVE TO EXPAND THAT OFFICE SIGNIFICANTLY.

WE'RE GOING TO LEAVE THAT TO MNIT.

MINNESOTA I.T.

SYSTEM.

>> Cathy: SO THE STATUS, STAY IN THEIR LANE.

>> I BELIEVE THAT THE STATE AUDITOR NEEDS TO REMAIN THERE, WE'RE NOT GOING TO EXPAND THAT OFFICE TO INCLUDE A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER THINGS.

WE NEED TO GET WITH MINN I.T., WORK COLLABORATIVELY WITH THEM, WE NEED TO CONCENTRATE ON WHAT'S GOING WRONG WITH THAT OFFICE NOW.

WE DON'T NEED TO EXPAND THE OFFICE INTO M OTHER DETAIL THAT WE DON'T NEED, THAT WE DON'T HAVE ANY BUSINESS IN RIGHT NOW.

WE HAVE PROFESSIONALS AT MNIT THAT NEED TO DO THAT, THEY'RE ON A 24/7 BASIS, WE NEED TO RELY ON THEIR EXPERTISE, WE DON'T NEED TO CREATE ANY MORE PEOPLE IN THAT OFFICE DOING WHO KNOWS WHAT.

>> Eric: YOU'RE PART OF THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL AS A STATE AUDITOR.

THAT WAS THE GROUP THAT SIGNED OFF ON GOVERNOR WALZ'S POWERS DURING COVID.

>> OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THEY DID.

FIVE OUT OF FIVE.

>> Eric: HOW WOULD YOU HAVE HAND -- HANDLED THAT AS STATE AUDITOR?

>> I CERTAINLY WOULD HAVE SAID, WE'RE GOING TO FOLLOW THE SCIENCE, BECAUSE IF WE LEARNED ONE THING, THE SCIENCE IS NEVER SETTLED.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE ISSUES, WE KNOW NOW WITHOUT QUESTION, NATURAL IMMUNITY IS REAL.

>> Eric: WHAT ABOUT THE GOVERNOR'S POWERS?

>> THE BOTTOM LINE, FIVE OUT OF FIVE PEOPLE VOTE TO EXTEND GOVERNOR WALZ'S POWERS OVER AND OVER AGAIN.

I THINK MINNESOTANS ARE GETTING TIRED OF ONE JUGGERNAUT PARTY RUNNING EVERYTHING.

PEOPLE ARE SAYING, WE NEED TO HAVE SOME DIVISION, WE NEED TO HAVE SOME SHARED SEATS AT THE TABLE.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHY PEOPLE ARE SAYING, SCOTT JENSEN, YOU NEED TO RUN FOR STATE AUDITOR, BECAUSE I THINK THAT I CAN BRING THAT TO THE TABLE.

>> YOU MAKE A GOOD POINT, Dr.

JENSEN, BECAUSE IN ORDER FOR MINNESOTANS TO TRULY BE REPRESENTED, DOES IT HAVE TO BE RIGHT OR LEFT?

WHAT ABOUT TEAM MINNESOTA?

THE GUY THAT'S TRULY INDEPENDENT.- I DEPENDENT.- I DOPENDENT.- I DON'NDENT.- I DON'T ENT.- I DON'T UNT.- I DON'T UNDE- I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY IT ALWAYS HAS TO BE ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.

WHY CAN'T MINNESOTANS HAVE A REPRESENTATIVE AT HE TABLE THAT TRULY REPRESENTS THEM, THAT HAS THEIR VOICE, THAT THEY FELT THAT THEY HAVEN'T HAD?

AND WHAT WE MISSED IN MINNESOTA, I WASN'T HERE, I WAS DOWN IN D.C., WHERE WE WERE LOCKED DOWN TIGHT IN D.C., TOO.

BUT MY ORDERS CAME FROM THE COMMANDER IN CHIEF.

RIGHT?

AND, SO, I WON'T -- I ALWAYS MAKE SURE THAT IS IT.

BUT I WOULDN'T AL HOUR OUR MINNESOTANS TO GO THROUGH THAT.

ALLOW OUR MINNESOTANS TO GO THROUGH THAT.

I'M A SCIENTIST, TOO.

DATA ANALYTICS BUT I'M ALSO A CLINICAL SCIENTIST SO I UNDERSTAND THAT PIECE, TOO.

>> YOU KNOW, I'M SO PROUD OF MY NONPARTISAN PUBLIC SERVICE ON THE DULUTH CITY COUNCIL.

BECAUSE WE WENT THROUGH COVID AS WELL.

WE BROUGHT EVERYTHING ONLINE.

EVERYONE REMEMBERS HOW STRESSFUL OF A TIME THAT WAS FOR EVERYBODY.

HOW WE WEREN'T SURE WHAT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN NEXT.

AND THIS IS AN IMPORTANT QUESTION TO MAKE SURE THAT WE THINK ABOUT EVERYBODY ACROSS MINNESOTA.

I'M NOT SURE THAT A ONE-SIZE-FITS-ALL POLICY ACROSS THE SPECTRUM IS ALWAYS THE RIGHT WAY TO GO.

>> SO ARE YOU AGAINST IT?

>> BUT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR PEOPLE IN THIS TATE ARE SAFE, RIGHT?

THAT IS THE JOB OF US GOVERNMENT FOLKS.

>> SO, ARE YOU AGAINST IT?

>> AGAINST -- >> WERE YOU AGAINST THE SIGNING OF THE ORDER FOR PEOPLE TO BE LOCKED DOWN IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA?

WERE YOU AGAINST IT OR WERE YOU FOR IT?

>> I WAS FOR IT.

>> YOU WANTED TO LOCK THE BUSINESSES DOWN, THE KIDS OUT OF SCHOOL.

>> BECAUSE WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT PEOPLE ARE SAFE AND GET THROUGH THIS TUMULTUOUS TIME AND I'M VERY VERY GLAD -- >> WE HAVE A GENERATIONAL PROBLEM NOW BECAUSE OF THE LOCKDOWNS IN THE STATE OF MINNESOTA.

>> IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS, YOU WERE ON CITY COUNCIL, YOU AS AN ACCOUNTANT LED THE CHARGE, THE PROPERTY TAX WENT UP OVER 60% YOU WERE ON THE COUNCIL.

THAT TRANSLATES TO PEOPLE'S HOMES, PEOPLE ARE BEING PRICED OUT OF THEIR HOMES.

WE SAW THAT FFECT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT IT IS, HE -- THE COUNTIES -- >> Cathy: DID TAXES GO UP 60% IN DULUTH?

>> THAT WAS 2016, 2021, AND YOU WERE ON THAT THEN.

>> YEAH.

WE DID RAISE PROPERTY TAXES BECAUSE WE HAVE SOME SIGNIFICANT CHALLENGES IN DULUTH.

AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT, JUST LIKE OTHER PLACES, THAT WE ARE PROVIDING THE PUBLIC SERVICES, POLICE AND FIRE AND UTILITIES ACROSS THE CITY THAT PEOPLE NEED.

THESE ARE THE TAX DOLLARS THAT ARE CLOSEST TO EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US.

>> Cathy: SAY, GENTLEMEN, I HAVE WHAT MIGHT BE A STRANGE QUESTION BUT I WAS THINKING ABOUT THIS.

SO YOU'RE RUNNING FOR STATE AUDITOR.

TWO GOVERNORS WERE STATE AUDITORS PRIOR TO BEING ELEVATED TO BEING GOVERNOR, GOVERN ARNE CARLSON AND GOVERNOR MARK DAYTON.

WOULD YOU THINK OF USING THE AUDITOR'S OFFICE AS A SPRINGBOARD FOR HIGHER OFFICE?

JAY REEVES?

>> I CAN TAKE A CRACK AT THAT ONE.

AT MY AGE, I'M NOT LOOKING FOR A NEW CAREER PATH.

I MEAN, I'M A FAMILY DOCTOR.

NOW THESE TWO GUYS TOGETHER ADDED UP MIGHT NOT EQUAL MY YEARS BUT I'M NOT GOING TO HOLD YOUR INEXPERIENCE AGAINST YOU AS RONALD REAGAN ONCE SAID.

>> Cathy: Mr.

REEVES?

>> FOR ME, THIS IS A ROLE THAT WAS MADE FOR ME, TO BE HONEST.

I DON'T HAVE A VISION RIGHT NOW AS IT RITZ SITS.

I'M A -- AS IT SITS.

I'M A DATA ANALYST, I DIG IN, I ASK HARD QUESTIONS, I'M A MILITARY LEADER, I'M MINNESOTAN, I'M AN EAST SIDER.

I'M HARD WORKING FOR MINNESOTANS, THAT'S WHERE MY DEDICATION IS.

WHEREVER THAT LEADS ME IS THE FUTURE.

I'M NOT GOING TO PONTIFICATE ABOUT WHAT MIGHT BE IN FOUR, EIGHT YEARS, BUT I KNOW THAT IN FOUR YEARS I WANT TO E IN THAT OFFICE MAKING THE BEST DECISIONS FOR ALL OF MINNESOTA.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU.

>> I WANT TO HELP LOCAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT.

THAT IS WHAT THIS JOB IS REALLY ALL ABOUT.

MY EXPERIENCE AS THE ONLY ACCOUNTANT WHO HAS EEN WORKING IN A LOCAL GOVERNMENT FINANCE OFFICE, I'VE SEEN THE STRUGGLES, I'VE SEEN THE CHALLENGES, AS A CITY COUNCILOR FOR A NONPARTISAN OFFICE, I'VE SEEN THOSE CHALLENGES AS WELL.

I WANT TO HELP LOCAL UNITS OF GOVERNMENT DO WHAT THEY DO BEST AND PROVIDE THE SERVICES FOR THEIR LOCAL CONSTITUENTS.

>> Cathy: YOU'D BE HAPPY TO BE AN AUDITOR, NOT BEING A SPRINGBOARD -- >> I WOULD LOVE TO BE AN AUDITOR.

>> IT'S INTERESTING YOU SAID THAT.

YOU MENTION AS AN ACCOUNTANT SEVERAL TIMES, BUT, YET, YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE OF THE THREE OF US THAT FAILED TO MEET THE DEADLINE IN SUBMITTING YOUR AFFIDAVIT FOR THE PUBLIC SUBSIDY PROGRAM.

AND MY UNDERSTANDING NOW IS THAT YOUR ATTORNEY IS NOW GOING TO THE CAMPAIGN FINANCE BOARD ASKING FOR AN EXTENSION.

AND I GUESS THAT IS WHAT ACCOUNTANTS DO.

>> Eric: REAL QUICK.

>> WE TRIED TO FILE THAT ON TIME.

THEIR SYSTEM WAS DOWN.

AND THAT WILL BE RESOLVED.

>> ALL YOU HAD TO DO WAS FAX IT.

>> Eric: THANK YOU, FELLAS FOR JOINING US.

LIVELY DISCUSSION.

THANKS.

MINNESOTA MAKES HISTORY WITH ALL WOMEN AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET FOR THE FIRST TIME.

THE U.S.

SENATE AND THE GOVERNOR'S RACE NOW FEATURE FORMIDABLE FEMALE CANDIDATES.

OUR POLITICAL REPORTER MARY LAHAMMER TALKED WITH ONE WHO RARELY GIVES IN-PERSON INTERVIEWS AS SHE ROUNDS UP ALL THE FASCINATING IMPLICATIONS OF THE RECORD-SETTING PRIMARY ELECTION.

>> THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN BECAUSE OF ME.

THIS HAPPENED BECAUSE OF YOU.

[ Cheers ] THIS HAPPENED BECAUSE YOU SAID, MINNESOTA IS NOT FOR SALE.

>> Mary: DEMOCRATIC LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR PEGGY FLANAGAN HARNESSED THE PASSION OF PROGRESSIVES IN HER RUN FOR U.S.

SENATE AND WILL CONTINUE TO TRY TO LEVERAGE THE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION AGAINST HER OPPONENT.

>> WE ARE NOT ABOUT TO IVE DONALD TRUMP ANOTHER LOYAL SOLDIER, LIKE MICHELE TAFOYA TO TAKE HIS ORDERS AND DO HIS BIDDING.

MICHELE TAFOYA WAS ALL IN WITH TRUMP WHEN I.C.E.

WAS TERRORIZING OUR NEIGHBORS.

>> THE BEGINNING OF OPERATION METRO SURGE WAS NOT OPTIMAL BY ANY STRETCH OF THE IMAGINATION.

WE HAD TWO VERY TRAGIC DEATHS.

I THINK TWO THINGS CAN BE TRUE.

I THINK WE CAN HAVE A SECURE BORDER AND WE CAN ALSO HAVE LEGAL, VETTED IMMIGRANTS WHO COME HERE, LIKE MY GRANDPARENTS DID.

I'M PROUD OF MY HERITAGE.

>> AND IT'S IN YOUR NAME, RIGHT.

>> SPANISH NAME, IT'S MY DAD'S.

>> I'M NOT A BIG IDENTITY POLITICS PERSON.

WHO I'M RUNNING UP, MICHELE TAFOYA, ALL MY LIFE EXPERIENCES, NOT JUST THE LATINA.

>> Mary: THE SIDELINE REPORTER, MICHELE TAFOYA WON BIG WITHOUT ELECTION NIGHT CELEBRATIONS.

>> SHE EVEN SAID, I.C.E.

TREATED CHILDREN REALLY REALLY WELL.

WELL, MICHELE, TELL THAT TO LIAM RAMOS.

TELL THAT TO THE PARENTS WHO WERE DISAPPEARED.

TELL THAT TO THE KIDS WHO DON'T KNOW WHERE THEIR MOM OR DAD ARE RIGHT NOW.

BECAUSE THE LAST THING THIS COUNTRY NEEDS IS TO GIVE DONALD TRUMP ANOTHER YES, SIR SENATOR.

>> I DISAGREE WITH MY PARTY ON A NUMBER OF ISSUES, AND I'M GOING TO CALL BALLS AND STRIKES, TO USE ANOTHER SPORTS ANALOGY.

>> Mary: WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

>> THAT EANS WHEN THE PRESIDENT IS RIGHT, LIKE IN CLOSING AND SECURING OUR BORDER, I WILL SAY HE IS RIGHT.

AND WHEN I THINK HE IS WRONG, LIKE THE BEGINNING OF OPERATION METRO SURGE HERE, I'M GOING TO SAY IT WAS WRONG.

>> Mary: WHAT ABOUT THE WAR?

IS THAT AN ISSUE?

WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THAT RESOLVED?

>> WHO WOULDN'T WANT TO SEE THAT RESOLVED?

>> Mary: AND THE AFFORDABILITY ISSUES THAT COME WITH IT, GAS PRICES, AFFORDABILITY IS REAL.

DID YOU HEAR THAT ON THE CAMPAIGN TRAIL AND HOW ARE YOU ADDRESSING IT?

>> ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.

WELL, NUMBER ONE, LET'S STOP THE FRAUD.

LET'S STOP TAKING OUR TAXPAYERS' MONEY AND SENDING IT TO CRIMINALS.

>> Mary: THERE'S THIS CLIP OF YOU SAYING PEOPLE AREN'T PROUD TO BE FROM MINNESOTA WHEN THEY'RE OUT VACATIONING.

>> THEY'RE EMBARRASSED.

>> Mary: ARE YOU EMBARRASSED TO BE FROM MINNESOTA?

>> NO, I'M NOT.

I WOULDN'T BE RUNNING IF I WERE.

>> Mary: FOR THE FIRST TIME IN DECADES, REPUBLICANS ENDORSED CANDIDATES -- REPUBLICAN-REPUBLICAN DOORED CANDIDATES LOST TO SAVVY CANDIDATES, MIKE LINDELL, WHO REFUSED TO CONCEDE OVER VOTING CONSPIRACIES.

THE HISTORY-MAKING HOUSE SPEAKER, LISA DEMUTH PREVAILED IN THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR.

>> I'VE HAD THE OPPORTUNITY OF SERVING AS SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS AND I'VE BEEN IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR FOUR TERMS.

THAT EXPERIENCE AND WHAT I HAVE LEARNED IN THAT PROCESS HAS TAUGHT ME MUCH ABOUT HOW OUR GOVERNMENT OPERATES, WHERE WE NEED TO MAKE CHANGES, SPECIFICALLY FRAUD, PUTTING EXTRA INTERNAL CONTROLS AND PROTECTING AND RESPECTING MINNESOTA TAXPAYER DOLLARS, BUT I'VE ALSO LEARNED TO WORK ACROSS THE AISLE IN AN EXACTLY TIED HOUSE.

>> Mary: SHE'LL FACE DEMOCRAT SQUINT PERFORMER U.S.

SENATOR AMY KLOBUCHAR.

>> IN MINNESOTA, TRUST IS NOT GIVEN.

IT'S EARNED.

THAT TRUST COMES WITH AN EXPECTATION, WHICH IS RESULTS.

RESULTS THAT YOU CAN SEE AND FEEL IN YOUR LIFE.

RESULTS IN MAKING LIFE MORE AFFORDABLE, MAKING OUR GOVERNMENT WORK AND GETTING RID OF THE FRAUD.

>> Mary: BEFORE THE POLLS HAD EVEN CLOSED, THE STATE HAD ALREADY SET A NEW RECORD FOR EARLY VOTING IN A MIDTERM PRIMARY ELECTION, AND THEN WE FOUND OUT THE STATE HAD SET A NEW MARK WITH A MILLION VOTES CAST IN A PRIMARY ELECTION, PITTING ABOUT 25 -- HITTING ABOUT 25% OF VOTER TURNOUT, ALSO A NEW RECORD.

>> MINNESOTA HAS SHATTERED THE MODERN-DAY RECORD FOR A NONPRESIDENTIAL ELECTION YEAR.

>> Mary: SIMON SAYS THE OPEN PRIMARY SYSTEM, WITH SO MANY COMPETITIVE CONTESTS, ALSO DROVE TURNOUT UP TO NEW HEIGHTS.

>> WE'RE ALMOST ALWAYS NUMBER ONE NUMBER THE COUNTRY IN VOTER TURNOUT.

WE TAKE OUR VOTING VERY SERIOUSLY IN MINNESOTA FOR GENERAL ELECTIONS.

FOR MANY PEOPLE, IT'S A DUTY, IT'S AN OBLIGATION.

IT'S FUN, COMPETITIVENESS WITH WISCONSIN AND OTHER STATES.

>> Mary: HE'LL FACE FORMER CONGRESSMAN, REPUBLICAN TAD JUDE IN THE SECRETARY OF STATE'S RACE.

>> I'M RUNNING TO SECURE THE VOTE SO WE CAN TRUST THE VOTE.

[ Cheers ] I'M RUNNING TO GET OUR MONEY BACK.

GET OUR FLAG BACK.

AND GET OUR ELECTIONS BACK.

>> Mary: THE ATTORNEY GENERAL'S RACE COULD BE ONE TO WATCH AND THE OPEN STATE AUDITOR'S SEAT.

>> DO YOU WANT TO CROSS ME OVER?

>> Mary: LANT RIGHT, GO LEFT.

FINALLY, FORMER STATE SENATOR MATT LITTLE, KNOWN FOR HIS CROSSOVER VOTES IN THE LEGISLATURE AS A YOUNG DEMOCRAT RAN A PROGRESSIVE CAMPAIGN FOR CONGRESS IN A COMPETITIVE DISTRICT WHERE HE'S MATCHED UP AGAINST CURRENT STATE SENATOR REPUBLICAN ERIC PRATT.

>> Mary: HIS WHEN IS THIS BACK ON THE FLOOR AGAIN FOR YOU AGAIN?

>> WE DON'T KNOW YET.

>> CATHY: IT'S AUGUST IN MINNESOTA.

THAT MEANS THERE ARE SEVERAL NEW STATE LAWS IN PLACE.

TOOK EFFECT AUGUST 1st.

ONE OF THE BIG ONES THIS YEAR, HEFTIER PENALTIES FOR IMPERSONATING A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER.

THIS WAS, OF COURSE, IN THE WAKE OF THE MURDERS OF MELISSA AND MARK HORTMAN.

BUT THAT ISN'T THE ONLY BIPARTISAN LEGISLATION THAT FOCUSED ON HONORING THE HORTMANS.

EARLIER THIS WEEK A TASK FORCE MET TO MAKE RECOMMENDATIONS ON A NEW STATE PARK ON THE CAPITOL GROUNDS TO HONOR THE HORTMANS.

REPUBLICAN REPRESENTATIVE JIM NASH IS CO-CHAIR OF THE HOUSE STATE GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE.

JOINING HIM TONIGHT, DFL REPRESENTATIVE PETER FISCHER WHO WAS NAMED CHAIR OF THE HORTMAN PARK WORKING GROUP.

HE SPONSORED THE BILL THAT CREATED THE CONCEPT.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU BOTH HERE.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> YOU'RE WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Cathy: IT'S NICE THAT THE BIPARTISAN NATURE OF THESE BILLS, LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT, REPRESENTATIVE NASH, IT'S KIND OF EASY TO WORK BIPARTISAN WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO HONOR A COLLEAGUE, OBVIOUSLY.

>> YEAH.

I THINK THAT WHAT YOU'LL SEE IS A NUMBER OF THESE THINGS ARE GOING TO HAVE A STRONG LEVEL OF BIPARTISANSHIP, AND SOME OF THE ONES THAT ARE NOW LAW DID.

YOU KNOW, WE PASSED SEVERAL THINGS TO SPECIFICALLY HONOR SPEAKER EMERITA AND IT WAS A VERY STRONG VOTE.

I KNOW THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT ANOTHER BILL THAT HAD ALL 201 LEGISLATORS, WHICH IS RARE, VOTE IN FAVOR OF IT.

SO I THINK THAT THERE'S ROOM FOR CONVERSATION ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, BUT WE'RE ALSO -- WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO ON IT.

>> Eric: DID THE SHERIFF'S ASSOCIATION AND THE PEACE OFFICERS SIGN OFF PRETTY QUICKLY ON THE MASKS FOR IMITATING AN OFFICER?

>> THAT WAS IMPORTANT, AS HEY CAME TOGETHER AND SAID, WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO DO THESE TYPE OF THINGS TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE HAVE ACCOUNTABILITY AND CAN TRUST WHO'S COMING ON, THEY CAN RECOGNIZE THEM.

I THINK IT TAKES A LITTLE BIT OF ORK.

SOME PEOPLE HAD SOME NGST, BUT I THINK IT WAS SOMETHING WE WERE ABLE TO COME TOGETHER AND FIGURE IT OUT.

>> THAT BILL HAD A COUPLE OF AMENDMENTS THAT HAD TO HAPPEN BEFORE IT CAME OUT OF COMMITTEE AND BEFORE IT HIT THE FLOOR.

I THINK THAT'S, AGAIN, WHERE THE BIPARTISAN NATURE OF THE WORK THAT WE DID ON THAT PARTICULAR BILL, THE IMPERSONATION OF A PEACE OFFICER, WAS REALLY GOOD AND SHOWED MINNESOTANS THAT NOT ONLY WERE THE HORTMANS ATTACKED AND THE HOFFMANS, BUT MINNESOTA WAS AS WELL.

AND THAT THIS BILL, THIS STEP THAT WE MADE TO MAKE IT ILLEGAL TO IMPERSONATE A PEACE OFFICER WAS A VERY IMPORTANT THING THAT WE DID TO MAKE SURE THAT MINNESOTANS KNEW THAT WE WERE NOT GONNA PUT UP WITH THAT.

>> Cathy: AS YOU INCREASED THE PENALTIES, I MEAN, BECAUSE BEFORE THIS SITUATION OCCURRED, BEFORE THE MURDERS OCCURRED, YOU KNOW, WHO WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THAT THIS WOULD HAPPEN, OF COURSE.

BUT WAS IT AN ISSUE PRIOR IN TERMS OF INDIVIDUALS IMPERSONATING POLICE OFFICERS AT ALL?

>> THAT'S A BETTER QUESTION FOR SOME OF THE CHIEFS OF POLICE.

>> Cathy: I WASN'T SURE IF YOU HEARD THAT IN TESTIMONY OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

>> Eric: AS YOU LOOK AT THE WORKING GROUP ON THE PARK, WHAT KIND OF THINGS DO YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER AS YOU GO ABOUT PLANNING THIS?

>> I THINK THE BIGGEST -- THERE ARE SEVERAL BIG THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND AS WE'RE PLANNING THIS.

NUMBER ONE IS AS WE'RE COMING TOGETHER, WE'VE GOT DIFFERENT AGENCIES THAT OVERSEE THE CAPITOL GROUNDS RIGHT NOW.

DEPENDING ON HOW DNR, WHICH HAS NOT BEEN ON HE AGENCY CONTROLLING THE GROUNDS, THEY HAVE NOT BEEN PART OF THAT BEFORE.

SO IT'S TRYING TO SET IT UP SO THAT THERE ARE CLEARLY DEFINED ROLES.

NUMBER TWO, YOU'RE PUTTING IT TOGETHER, MAKING SURE THAT YOU'RE IDENTIFYING THINGS THAT ARE GOING TO BE SUSTAINABLE GOING FORWARD.

THERE ARE GOING TO BE COSTS INVOLVED.

IT CAN ALSO BRING FORWARD TOUTS ESTABLISHING A STATE PARK IS THE OPPORTUNITIES OF CREATING A NONPROFIT FOR THE FRIENDS OF THE STATE PARK, WHICH COULD HELP BRING IN MONEY THAT COULD HELP THEN DO SOME THINGS ON THE CAPITOL GROUNDS THAT WE'RE NOT ABLE TO FIND MONEY FOR AT THE STATE CAPITOL IN THE LEGISLATURE NOW.

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I POINTED OUT, AS YOU BOTH KNOW, WE'RE NOW IN A STRUCTURAL DEFICIT.

AND WE ARE FRESH OUT OF MONEY.

AND IF WE'RE GOING TO DO A STATE PARK AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE STATE APPROPRIATE MONEY FOR IT, I DON'T THINK I CAN PUT UP VOTES FOR THAT BECAUSE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SCENARIO UNDER WHICH PEOPLE WHO WORK FOR DIFFERENT STATE AGENCIES MAY BE GETTING LET GO BECAUSE WE HAVE TO FIND A WAY TO BALANCE THE BUDGET.

HOW DO YOU SAY TO AN EMPLOYEE, WE REALLY APPRECIATE YOUR LONG WORK HERE, WE'RE LETTING YOU GO, BUT STOP BY THE PARK ON THE WAY OUT.

IT'S JUST A VERY TENUOUS THING THAT WE CAN'T HAVE HAPPEN.

SO IF THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN, AND I MADE URE THAT I QUALIFIED MYSELF EVERY TIME WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, IF THIS IS TO BECOME REALITY, THERE'S A LONG LIST OF THINGS THAT HAVE TO ET DONE.

PETER MENTIONED THE INTERJURISDICTIONAL THINGS AS SOMETHING THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT BECAUSE THERE'S A LOT OF JURISDICTIONS THAT HAVE A SAY IN WHAT HAPPENS ON THE CAPITOL GROUNDS TODAY.

IF WE'RE GOING TO ADD MORE LAYERS, THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAIL.

>> AND I THINK AS YOU MENTION THE DEVIL IN THE DETAILS, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP IN MIND, WHEN YOU INITIALLY SET UP A PARK, IT DOESN'T MEAN EVERYTHING ROLLS OUT RIGHT AWAY AT THE SAME TIME.

IT'S SOMETHING THAT COULD BE SCALED OUT SO THAT YOU COULD KEEP SOME OF THE COSTS UNDER CONTROL UNTIL YOU HAVE THINGS SUSTAINABLE IN THE FUTURE.

AND THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I'VE SEEN WHEN STATE PARKS HAVE BEEN DONE ELSEWHERE IN THE STATE.

YOU DON'T ALWAYS HAVE A STATE PARK UP AND RUNNING WITH EVERYTHING RIGHT OFF THE BAT.

IT AKES TIME.

IT'S PHASED IN.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'VE SEEN IN THIS TYPE OF SITUATION, YOU SEE THINGS PHASED IN AS THEY'RE AVAILABLE.

>> Cathy: WOULD THIS BE A SILLY QUESTION TO ASK, WHERE EXACTLY WOULD THE STATE PARK BE ON THE CAPITOL GROUNDS?

>> THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO FIGURE OUT IN THE PROCESS.

BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, KIND OF WHERE WE HAVE THE GREEN SPACES RIGHT NOW, BUT THESE ARE SOME OF THE DEVIL IN THE DETAILS THAT WE'LL GET FIGURED OUT.

>> BECAUSE THE CAPITOL GROUNDS, AS YOU KNOW, ALSO EXTENDS TO THE HOMES THAT ARE NORTH OF THE CAMPUS AND SOME TO THE SOUTH AND WEST.

SO, IF THIS IS TO BECOME REALITY, THOSE, ONCE AGAIN, THE DEVIL'S IN THE DETAILS, THE QUESTION THAT I ASKED REPRESENTATIVE FISCHER TODAY, WHAT HAPPENS TO THE HOMES THAT ARE ENCAPSULATED, FROM A PERMITTING PERSPECTIVE, FROM A SALABILITY PERSPECTIVE, WHAT IS THE LAND USE THAT THEY CAN DO OR NOT DO BECAUSE NOT EVERYTHING IS PERMISSIBLE IN A STATE PARK.

>> Cathy: THERE'S NO CAMPING IN THIS AREA EITHER, I BET.

JUST SAYING.

>> AND YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

AND THIS IS WHERE SOME OF THE THINGS MAY COME IN, IS THAT IN TERMS OF A STATE PARK, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THE SAME RULES THAT WE HAVE OUT THERE.

WHEN WE PUT IT TOGETHER, WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE TO HAVE SOME ENABLING LEGISLATION THAT SAYS THAT NOTWITHSTANDING WHAT WE DO IN OTHER STATE PARKS, THERE MAY BE SPECIAL RULES AND SPECIAL WAYS WE DO IT HERE.

SO IT DOESN'T HAVE TO FOLLOW THE SAME MODEL WE'VE GOT ELSEWHERE.

WE CREATE IT FOR WHAT WOULD BE BEST FOR THE ENVIRONMENT WE'RE IN AND ALSO PARTICULARLY THIS IS ALSO WITHIN A NEIGHBORHOOD, WITHIN THE CITY OF St.

PAUL.

WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT T'S ALSO INVOLVING RESIDENTS ALONG THOSE LINES.

THERE'S BEEN SOME PLANNING, THERE'S A MASTER PLAN THAT WAS ORIGINALLY DONE SOME WORK ON IN THE LAST YEAR OR SO FOR THE CAPITOL MALL DESIGN.

THOSE WILL BE SOME THINGS WE'LL BE LOOKING AT.

>> Eric: IS NAMING THE NEW HOUSE OFFICE BUILDING IN THE CARDS OR IS THAT TOO CONTROVERSIAL A PROJECT TO ATTACH ANYBODY'S NAME TO IT?

>> I THINK THAT THAT IS A BIGGER LIFT THAN MOST PEOPLE REALIZE.

I THINK THAT THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT CAN HAPPEN RIGHT NOW.

AND I THINK THAT IF YOU WERE TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO ASK MELISSA HORTMAN IF SHE WANTED TO HAVE THAT BUILDING NAMED AFTER HER, SHE'D PROBABLY HIT YOU FIRST AND THEN SAY, DON'T DO THAT.

I THINK HERE'S A LOT OF DESIRE TO HONOR HER AND, AS REPUBLICANS, WE WANT TO HELP WITH THAT, BUT WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE DOING IT ALSO TO HONOR WHAT THE INTENT OF THE GROUNDS WERE IN THE BRILLIANT DESIGN OF CASS GILBERT.

AND WE TALKED ABOUT THAT AS WELL.

BUT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HAS TO HAPPEN AS A QUALIFICATION OF MOVING FORWARD ON ANY OF THIS, IS, ARE WE DETRACTING FROM ARGUABLY THE MOST BEAUTIFUL CAPITOL IN THE COUNTRY?

>> Eric: WELL, THIS REALLY SET THE STAGE FOR THE ONGOING DEBATE.

SO THANK YOU BOTH FOR COMING DOWN.

>> THANK YOU.

>> THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY.

APPRECIATE IT.

>> Eric: YOU'RE WELCOME.

♪ >> YOU KNOW, MINNESOTA TAXPAYERS ASSOCIATION RANKS US NOW ON STATE AND LOCAL TAXES PER THOUSAND DOLLARS OF PERSONAL INCOME 21st AMONG THE STATES.

IF YOU WERE TO TAKE MY TAX INCREASES, WE'D RANK 11th.

>> YOU KNOW, IT'S AMAZING TO ME THAT YOUR AMILY CREATED A GREAT BUSINESS, CREATED, IN FACT, ONE OF THE BEST BUSINESSES NUMBER THE STATE OF MINNESOTA, NATIONALLY, MAYBE, AND EVEN INTERNATIONALLY.

AND NOW WHAT WE'RE SUGGESTING IS THAT WE'RE GOING TO PUT A TARGET ON THE BACK -- THE TARGET CORPORATION IS YOUR FAMILY'S BUSINESS.

>> ON YOUR BACK.

>> YOU'RE GOING TO PUT A TARGET ON THE BACK OF EVERY BUSINESS IN THIS STATE.

>> ERIC: HAVE WE MENTIONED TUESDAY NIGHT'S BIG PRIMARY YET TONIGHT?

IF YOU'VE BEEN PAYING ATTENTION AT ALL, YOU KNOW THAT WE HAD RECORD VOTER TURNOUT, SEVERAL HIGH-PROFILE RACES, AND FOR THE FIRST TIME, MINNESOTA WILL HAVE A FEMALE GOVERNOR.

HERE TO BREAK IT ALL DOWN FOR US, THIS WEEK'S VERSION OF THE POLITICAL PANEL.

REPUBLICANS UP FIRST TONIGHT.

BRIAN MCCLUNG, FORMER GOVERNOR PAWLENTY STAFFER AND LONGTIME CAPITOL OBSERVER, NOW A PUBLIC RELATIONS PROFESSIONAL.

PREYA SAMSUNDAR IS A GOP STRATEGIST AND A FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR THE RNC AND THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN.

DEMOCRATS ON THE COUCH TONIGHT, ALYSEN NESSE IS A PARTY LOYALIST AND A LOBBYIST UP AT THE CAPITOL.

AND JAVIER MORILLO IS A LONGTIME UNION AND PARTY ACTIVIST AND A FORMER NATIONAL COMMITTEEMAN FOR THE DNC.

HOW DID PEGGY FLANAGAN BEAT ANGIE CRAIG BY 0 PERCENTAGE POINTS, WHEN THE LAST POLL HAD IT 40%-40%, SHE WAS OUTSPENT, KIND OF WELLSTONEESQUE, I GUESS YOU MIGHT SAY.

>> IT WAS REALLY HARD WORK.

SHE DID 300 EVENTS ACROSS THE STATE.

AND THAT'S NOT 300 EVENTS THAT THE CAMPAIGN DID, THAT'S LIKE 300 THAT PEGGY HERSELF WAS AT.

SHE JUST -- IT WAS JUST OLD-FASHIONED SHOE LEATHER, LIKE GRASSROOTS POLITICS.

I TOLD YOU, LIKE LAST FALL, THAT THIS WAS GOING TO BE -- THIS WAS NOT GOING TO BE CLOSE BECAUSE I KNEW THAT PEGGY IS MORE IN TUNE WITH WHERE THE DEMOCRATIC ELECTORATE IS RIGHT NOW.

AND THE MONEY THAT WAS SPENT AGAINST HER, AND SHE WAS OUTSPENT 6 TO 1, ACTUALLY ENDED UP MAKING THE ARGUMENT FOR US.

BECAUSE THE DISTINCTION WAS BETWEEN A CORPORATE DEMOCRAT, WHO WAS BEHOLDEN TO SPECIAL INTERESTS, VERSUS A GRASSROOTS CANDIDATE.

>> Cathy: WELL, PEGGY FLANAGAN STUCK O HER PROGRESSIVE STANCES, AND ANGIE CRAIG, OF COURSE, ARGUED THAT HER MORE MODERATE VIEWPOINTS WOULD BE MORE -- WOULD MAKE HER MORE ELECTABLE STATEWIDE.

OBVIOUSLY SHE LOST, RIGHT?

SO I'M WONDERING, DID TUESDAY'S RESULTS MAYBE US A LITTLE MORE UNCERTAIN ABOUT THE ASSUMPTIONS WE MAKE ABOUT ELECTABILITY?

>> I MEAN, CERTAINLY.

BUT -- >> Cathy: OR JUST ONE RACE?

>> YEAH, NO.

ELECTABILITY IS THE PERSON THAT CONNECTS BEST WITH THE ELECTORATE AND AS JAVIER SAID, SHE DID 300 EVENTS AROUND THE STATE.

SHE IS THE MOST PROLIFIC ORGANIZER AND THAT IS WHAT WINS ELECTIONS AND THAT WHAT IS ELECTABILITY.

IS TO BE CLEAR, WE TALKED ABOUT IT ON THE PROGRAM BEFORE, THE AFTERMATH AND THE IMPACT OF OPERATION METRO SURGE ON THE VOTERS IN MINNESOTA CANNOT BE OVERSTATED.

AND PEGGY SPOKE TO THAT.

SHE SPOKE TO IMATION.

-- IMMIGRATION.

ANGIE CRAIG HAD THE VOTE OF THE LAKEN REILLY ACT AND PEOPLE WERE UPSET ABOUT IT AND THE NUMBERS WERE REFLECTIVE OF THAT.

>> THE MOMENTUM ON THE DEMOCRATIC SIDE NATIONALLY IS CLEARLY IN FAVOR OF PROGRESSIVES, RIGHT?

WE SAW THAT IN MICHIGAN, WE SAW THAT HERE IN MINNESOTA.

THAT HAS JUST BEEN THE CASE.

WHAT'S INTERESTING, ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE, THE ELECTION WENT TO ELECTABILITY, LIKE ELECTABILITY IS BACK.

AND, SO, REPUBLICANS ENDED UP WITH OUR BEST POSSIBLE OUTCOME, WITH MICHELE TAFOYA WINNING THE SENATE RACE AND WITH LISA DEMUTH WINNING THE GOVERNOR'S RACE.

SO THAT IS AN INTERESTING CONTRAST, BECAUSE MOSTLY WHAT WE HAVE SEEN IN MINNESOTA IS THAT DEMOCRATS WOULD TYPICALLY GO BACK TO THE MORE MODERATE OR MAINSTREAM, RIGHT?

WHEN TIM WALZ WON THE PRIMARY AFTER NOT BEING ENDORSED, WHEN MARK DAYTON WON THE PRIMER AFTER NOT BEING ENDORSED.

THAT'S NOT WHAT HAPPENED.

THE DEMOCRATS WENT WITH THEIR FAR LEFT INSTINCTS, PEGGY FLANAGAN WINS.

AND REPUBLICANS HAVE PRESENTED A MORE MAINSTREAM, MODERATE CENTRIST VOICES AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET.

>> Eric: HOW DOES FLANAGAN/TAFOYA RACE SHAPE UP?

SEEMS LIKE A PRETTY GOOD BATTLE.

>> IT'S GOING TO BE, I THINK, ONE OF THE RACES TO WATCH NATIONALLY.

THE FACT THAT YOU SAW NATIONAL GROUPS, NRSE TO COME IN BEHIND TAFOYA EARLY ON, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE FOUND OUT THAT FLANAGAN IS GOING TO BE ON THE BALLOT, SEEING THE NATIONAL BALLOT THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, IT STARTED WITH MOM DANI IN 25, IT STARTED WITH THE PROGRESSIVE SOCIALISTS FOR GETTING THE NOD.

HUNG, A KNOWN DSA, GOT TO BE THE DEMOCRATS' NOMINEE IN WISCONSIN.

JUST KIND OF SEEING THAT AND BRINGING THAT ELECTABILITY FORWARD.

I THINK REPUBLICANS REALIZED WHAT WAS ON THE LINE.

THEY CHOSE CANDIDATES WHO WERE ELECTABILITY, SOMEONE WHO HAD DONOR SUPPORT HERE IN MINNESOTA, HAD SUPPORT NATIONALLY, COULD COALESCE, AND BRING IN NEW FOLKS INTO THE PARTY, FOLKS THAT WE HAD KIND OF LOST OVER THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS, I THINK THAT PRESENTS A VERY INTERESTING RACE.

>> Eric: JAVIER.

>> THE REPUBLICANS WERE SUCCESSFUL AT NOMINATING LESS EMBARRASSING CANDIDATES.

THAT IS TRUE.

BUT FOR SOMEONE TO BE ELECTABLE, YOU HAVE TO TURN OUT VOTES.

AND THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS, PEGGY LANAGAN GOT MORE VOTES ON TUESDAY THAN ALL OF THE REPUBLICANS COMBINED.

AND THE EXCITEMENT 8 ON THE LEFT IS PALPABLE IN MINNESOTA AND ACROSS THE COUNTRY.

>> Cathy: I'M WONDERING, OKAY, O OUR POLITICAL ANALYSTS HERE, SO, RIAN, AND MAYBE, ALYSEN, JUMP IN, HOW DOES THE RACE LOOK BETWEEN FLANAGAN AND TAFOYA, WHAT IS ARE THE THEMES THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HERE?

>> REALLY, LIKE PREYA WAS SAYING, THIS IS A KEY RACE NATIONALLY, I THINK NATIONAL REPUBLICANS, IF WE DIDN'T HAVE MICHELE TAFOYA -- AND LISA DEMUTH AT THE TOP OF THE TICKET, NATIONAL REPUBLICANS WOULD PUT US TO THE SIDE.

NOW IT'S FRONT AND CENTER.

REPUBLICANS HAD A 30% INCREASE FROM THE HIGH WATER MARK IN 2018.

SUFFICE IT TO SAY, ON BOTH SIDES, THERE IS A LOT OF ENTHUSIASM, INTEREST IN ALL OF THESE RACES.

I THINK THE U.S.

SENATE RACE IS GOING TO BE PARTICULARLY INTERESTING BECAUSE THE LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR PEGGY FLANAGAN IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET AWAY FROM THE FACT THAT SHE'S PART OF THE WALZ/FLANAGAN ADMINISTRATION THAT LED TO $9 BILLION IN FRAUD.

AND THIS IS STILL A CRITICAL ISSUE AND THIS IS GOING TO UNFOLD.

WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEE PROSECUTIONS, GUILTY PLEAS, CONVICTIONS AROUND THE FRAUD THAT'S HAPPENED IN MINNESOTA.

AND I JUST DON'T KNOW HOW PEGGY FLANAGAN TRIES TO WASH THAT AWAY.

THAT'S GOING TO BE FRONT AND CENTER IN THAT SENATE RACE.

>> Cathy: WHAT DOES FLANAGAN ATTACK TAFOYA ON?

>> BEING A RUBBER STAMP FOR TRUMP.

AND THE IMPACTS, AGAIN, OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT ON MINNESOTA, TO MINNESOTANS -- TWO MINNESOTANS THAT DIED, WERE KILLED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IN JANUARY, AND IMMIGRATION AND JUST EVERYTHING THAT IS HAPPENING AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL AROUND IMMIGRATION AND THE ENFORCEMENT, BUT ALSO AFFORDABILITY.

GAS, MORTGAGE, HEALTHCARE, I MEAN, EVERYTHING IS THROUGH THE ROOF.

WE HAVE A LOT TO RUN ON.

AND PEGGY IS ADDRESSING FRAUD HEAD ON.

SHE IS NOT RUNNING FROM IT.

SHE IS TALKING ABOUT IT.

AND IF YOU HAVE ONE THING TO GO AFTER HER AND THEN MULTIPLE OTHER THINGS TO GO AFTER THE REPUBLICANS WITH, I STILL THINK THAT SHE'S GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL.

>> THE DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW, PUT THIS BACK ON THEIR TRUMP RUBBER STAMPS.

DONALD TRUMP DIDN'T ENDORSE EITHER OF THE CANDIDATES THAT WON.

IN FACT, BOTH OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY-ENDORSED CANDIDATES LOST.

SO YOU HAVE STATEWIDE CANDIDATES WHO CAN RUN ON THEIR OWN MERITS AND WHO CAN GO BACK TO THE DEMOCRATS AND SAY, WHERE WERE YOU?

WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THIS FRAUD HAPPENED?

WHERE WERE YOU WHEN THIS WAS UNFOLDING IN MINNESOTA?

AND I THINK REPUBLICANS, FOR A CHANGE, HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO RUN ON THEIR OWN MESSAGE.

>> I THINK ALSO THE POINT, TOO, IS THAT WE SEE THIS CYCLE AFTER CYCLE.

DEMOCRATS HAVE ONE MESSAGE, ONE MESSAGE ONLY.

IT IS DONALD TRUMP, BAD.

DEMOCRATS ARE GOOD.

WELL, THE REALITY IS, REPUBLICANS ACTUALLY HAVE SOMETHING TO RUN ON WITH THIS FRAUD ISSUE.

THE REALITY IS, DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN IN CONTROL IN MINNESOTA FOR THE LAST 20 YEARS.

THIS HAS FALLEN SOLELY ON THEIR WATCH.

THAT IS GOING TO BE SOMETHING OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE AT THE TOP OF THIS RACE.

BUT I THINK ALSO, YOU KNOW, WE MENTIONED IMMIGRATION HERE FOR A QUICK SECOND.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT POLLING ACROSS THE COUNTRY, WHEN IT COMES TO METRO SURGE TYPE SITUATIONS IN CITIES LIKE CHICAGO, NEW YORK, LOS ANGELES, MINNEAPOLIS, WHILE PEOPLE DISAGREED WITH WHAT I.C.E.

WAS DOING AND STRONGLY OPPOSE THAT, THE CORE MESSAGE OF WHAT DONALD TRUMP RAN ON IN 2024, WHICH WAS TO GET RID OF CRIMINAL, ILLEGAL ALIENS OUT OF OUR STATES, TO FIX THE IMMIGRATION PROBLEM THAT LET HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF INDIVIDUALS INTO THE COUNTRY THAT WE DIDN'T KNOW, EVERY SINGLE MONTH INTO OUR COUNTRY, THAT IS STILL VERY POPULAR AMONGST INDEPENDENT IT IS, SOFT -- INDEPENDENTS, DEMOCRATS AND REPUBLICANS.

>> Cathy: WE'VE GOT TO TALK ABOUT KLOBUCHAR AND DEMUTH.

HOW DOES THAT STACK UP?

>> AMY KLOBUCHAR IS A BEHEMOTH HERE.

AND SHE HAS THE CREDIBILITY TO TAKE ON, LIKE, THE ISSUES OF FRAUD.

AND TO THINK BROADLY -- MORE BROADLY ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE STATE.

I MEAN, I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE -- IT'S A BETTER PAIRING FOR REPUBLICANS THAN WHAT THEY WERE RACING FOR, BECAUSE EVERYONE WAS RACING FOR PILLOW GUY.

SO IT'S A LESS EMBARRASSING ONE.

>> Eric: DEMUTH WOULD BE THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN TO BE GOVERNOR.

>> CORRECT.

AND FOR SURE, LIKE, LET'S TAKE A MINUTE.

ALL FOUR MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATES OF BOTH RACES ARE WOMEN.

AND THAT IS FANTASTIC.

THAT IS GREAT TO SEE.

THE THING ABOUT AMY KLOBUCHAR IS, CERTAINLY SHE IS A JUGGERNAUT, BUT SHE HAS NEVER FACED A SERIOUS CHALLENGER.

LISA DEMUTH IS NOT CURT BILLS, WHO WAS THE OTHER GUY WHO RAN AGAINST HER?

JIM EWBERGER.

SHE'S A LEGITIMATE STRONG CANDIDATE WHO IS REALLY GOING TO TAKE THE RACE O HER.

YES, CERTAINLY SHE IS THE MOST POPULAR CANDIDATE OR POLITICIAN IN MINNESOTA RIGHT NOW.

BUT THIS IS A DIFFERENT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES AND A DIFFERENT RACE.

>> Eric: GOT 30 SECONDS.

>> I KEEP GOING BACK TO THE ENTHUSIASM GAP.

THERE ARE 614,000 MINNESOTANS WHO VOTED FOR AMY KLOBUCHAR.

ONLY 287,000 WHO VOTED FOR LISA DEMUTH SO I THINK THAT CARRIES INTO NOVEMBER.

THERE'S A BIG ENTHUSIASM GAP TO MAKE UP.

THE POLLS JUST SHOW US THAT IT'S GOING TO BE A GOOD YEAR FOR DEMOCRATS.

AND I WAS A LITTLE WORRIED ABOUT MINNESOTA, BUT TUESDAY NIGHT TURNED OUT VERY WELL.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT LISA DEMUTH?

>> I THINK DEMUTH IS AN EXCELLENT CANDIDATE TO RUN AGAINST KLOBUCHAR.

THE REALITY IS, TO BRIAN'S POINT, LOBUCHAR HAS NOT FACED A SERIOUS CHALLENGER SINCE RUNNING HER POLITICAL CAREER ROAR IN 2006.

WHEN THE REALITY IS, SHE HAS LOST GROUND WITH VOTERS EVERY SINGLE TIME THAT SHE HAS RUN, TO THE POINT WHERE HER VICTORY OF MARGIN WAS AT ITS LOWEST POINT IN 2024 WHEN SHE RAN AGAINST ROYCE WHITE.

PUT UP A CHALLENGER LIKE DEMUTH, HO'S GOT MONEY, WHO'S GOT INFLUENCE, WHO'S GOT A RECORD, CAN ACTUALLY AKE THE FIGHT TO HER, SHE'S GOING 0 HAVE A -- SHE'S GOING TO AVE A SERIOUS FIGHT IN NOVEMBER.

>> POLLING IN THE PRIMARY IS HARD.

I HAVE A LOT OF FRIENDS WHO ARE POLLSTERS, I'M NOT GOING TO BLAME HER.

IT WAS OFF HERE, OFF IN WISCONSIN, IT'S SOMETHING TO LOOK AT.

>> GREAT NIGHT FOR PREDICTION MARKETS, THOUGH.

>> Eric: PANEL, TERRIFIC.

FUN STUFF THIS WEEK.

GREAT ANALYSIS.

A QUICK NOTE AS WE HEAD INTO THE GENERAL ELECTION SEASON, WE ARE INVITING CANDIDATES IN MAJOR RACES TO DEBATE ON THE SHOW AND PLAN TO HOST AS MANY CONVERSATIONS AS POSSIBLE BETWEEN NOW AND ELECTION DAY.

WITH ALL OF THE PRIMARY NEWS TO PONDER, WE HAVE RUN LONG TONIGHT.

WE'LL HAVE THE INDEX FILE SECTION, AN ESSAY AND OTHER REGULAR SHOW FEATURES BACK NEXT FRIDAY.

WE'LL SEE YOU THEN.

AND BE CAREFUL.

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