Five years ago the Supreme Court overturned the federal ban on sports betting, ending Nevada's monopoly on the industry.

At the time, headlines suggested Nevada might suffer as a result.

So has it?

Also, how has the industry changed, and what role will Nevada play in its future?

Here to help answer those questions and much more are Bill Adee, Cofounder and COO of VSiN, The Sports Betting Network; Vinny Magliulo, Gaughan Gaming Sports Director and South Point Oddsmaker; Matthew Holt, President and Founder of U.S.

Integrity; and Patrick Everson, Senior Reporter at Vegas Insider.

Gentlemen, thank you so much for taking the time.

We've got a tremendous panel here.

I had to ask you, prior to us starting, it's 37 states.

But you said, no, 38 jurisdictions.

Right, Matt, because of... (Matthew Holt) The District of Columbia, which has actually done quite well.

And, you know, they were the first jurisdiction to actually have sportsbooks inside a professional sports venue, which we've seen has been amazing.

And it was sort of the catalyst for rollouts among stadiums and arenas across the country.

-And how soon could we see another state added to this number?

-I think very soon.

But we're starting to run out of states as we know at this point.

[laughter] -So I think we're probably going to see Texas, Minnesota, California at some point come on, but we certainly are starting to run out of states.

And then there's probably a handful that will never pass sports betting.

(Bill Adee) There are some states that will never pass.

-Never pass.

-And why?

Why do you think that?

-Well, Utah in their constitution has no gambling at all.

So in order to pass any type of gambling activity, it would take a constitutional change.

Those things are very, very difficult.

-Okay.

I want to go back to that Supreme Court ruling five years ago.

At the time, The New York Times wrote, quote, a trip to Las Vegas to wager on March Madness or the Superbowl could soon seem quaint, end quote.

Patrick, you are our journalist on this table.

What do you think of that quote?

(Patrick Everson) I think it was ill founded.

I think what's happened, and I think Matt can probably speak-- all of us here can speak to it.

Certainly Matt with his past sportsbook experience, Vinny with his continuing in the sportsbook industry.

I think something was profound that Vinny's coworker Chris Andrews told me at the time.

And that was, "I think this is going to be good for Nevada."

And I think so far-- Now, there's some things we'll address in this panel, I think, that might suggest there are moves to be made.

But so far, I think Chris has been proven absolutely correct.

What this has done is it's allowed for the regulated legal sports betting, you know, to expand across the United States.

What I think people have done, people who have come into this who are new betters, recreational players, they enjoy it a lot.

They learn how to do it, and then they're like, Oh, it's Superbowl weekend.

Oh, it's March Madness.

We got to go to Vegas and do this where it's done right.

And the numbers bear it out.

The numbers bear it out.

-Vinny, what has the impact been on Nevada?

(Vinny Magliulo) Well, I would hope that that particular journalist was a bettor because he was dead wrong.

[laughter] -And you would have won because the sportsbook got paid.

-I mean, the thing about it is when PASPA was overturned in 2015, the sports handle in Nevada was a little over $4 billion annually, calendar year.

Last year, we almost hit $9 billion.

So I think-- -Explain what "handle" is real quickly.

-Handle is the amount wagered by betters on sporting events.

And what I think-- And Patrick touched on it.

The fact of the matter is what the expansion of sports wagering has done in this country, and really throughout North America and the world, is really given people-- whet their appetite, but they still want that Las Vegas experience.

Because don't forget, when folks do come here for March Madness, when they come for the Super Bowl-- which we're going to have the next Super Bowl, and it'll set an all-time record for the Super Bowl in terms of betting handle.

There's no question about it, especially because it's going to be here.

Just like when casino-style gambling expanded back in the 1970s in Atlantic City, we heard the death knell for Las Vegas back then.

Well, we've got a few more hotel rooms here in inventory today, over 150,000 hotel rooms than we did back in the mid '70s.

When you look at Native American locations that have done a great job as well, that gives people the opportunity, gives them the exposure, and it starts to break down that intimidation because it is now mainstream.

People still want that overall Las Vegas experience.

And now with Las Vegas being an event-driven destination and so many of those events do have sports wagering attached to it, there's no question that our handle will continue to grow.

-Bill, you helped launch VSiN, the sports betting network which broadcasts across the country.

You have two main studios here in Southern Nevada, one at the South Point, one at Circa.

You started VSiN right before the Supreme Court ruling, and this only helped to aid your bottom line, as we spoke about on the phone.

How so?

-Well, I think I thought VSiN was a good idea when I first heard about it.

And I realized it was going to be a lot better idea after that Supreme Court ruling because all of a sudden, we had advertisers who could, you know, who were trying to get in the states across the country.

Our distribution grew.

We're in more than 350 radio stations.

And every time a new state comes on board, we start hearing from those radio stations and in those states to say, Hey, can we get some programming?

So thank God for the Supreme Court ruling.

Yeah.

-And you had mentioned that it was tough getting ad revenue from sportsbooks themselves prior to the ruling.

-Yeah, and that wasn't really the tradition here.

I don't even think it was allowed to have promo codes and things like that, that you see in the rest of the country.

So there was really no reason for sportsbooks to advertise specifically on VSiN.

But once it started expanding to other states, those new operators need to get their names out there.

And that's, that provided a huge line of revenue for us, which we needed.

-I gotta bring this up, though.

There is a lot of advertising now.

And we're about to be bombarded with it as the NFL season starts.

Is it too much, Patrick?

-I think there's a fine line here.

And as we discussed pre-show, I feel like there's-- much like with gambling or sports betting itself, especially if you're just the average better, which is who most of these advertisements speak to and who most of the client base is, you know, the recreational betters just having some skin in the game.

I think moderation is the key.

And I think they, you know, as far as the advertising goes, when even sports bettors, and avid sports bettors, are saying on social media, Hey, this seems like a little too much today on this particular NFL Sunday, then imagine what the majority of the audience that maybe is either recreational sports betters or a broad section of them that don't bet at all.

They're probably like, Wow, this is getting hit over the head with a hammer; let's dial this back.

It's better for the industry to police itself, and for the network's and so forth.

-Before-- For example, the State of New York is now getting involved in some of the advertising.

-Exactly.

And I think it's better for the industry to police itself.

-There will be ebb and flow of advertising.

When there's a new state that opens, there's a rush of advertising and then there's a pullback and more awareness is, is the goal at that point.

So I think it'll subside.

-The advertising issues just haven't been with sheer volume numbers.

It's been who's the target audience?

Where are they advertising?

Advertisements on collegiate campuses have obviously been scrutinized at a much higher rate.

Advertisements where books may be promoting free bets or zero risk, that's been sort of frowned upon.

So it's not always the sheer volume of ads.

It's the content of ads and who they're targeted at.

-I think, yeah, and I think it's up to-- it's free enterprise, right?

Let's face it, the advertising is free enterprise, part of the free enterprise marketing system.

So if advertisers, if properties, you know, want to advertise, but it's also what they're advertising, too, not just about the sportsbook.

How does it incorporate the entire property experience as well?

So I think when it comes to Nevada, especially Las Vegas, a lot of those ads really are geared towards, yes, the sports betting portion of it, but also what is the complete property-wide experience involved.

It's a lead in that way.

As the consumer, you've got the ability, especially in today's day and age, you want to listen?

Fine.

If you don't, then you don't have to.

But it's not going to go away anytime soon.

-You can put on mute.

But if you turn it off, you're gonna miss your sporting event.

-There you go.

Trust me, they won't miss the sporting event.

They won't miss the action on it.

-Right.

Okay.

So Matt, according to a Las Vegas Review Journal article, you launched your business in anticipation of the Supreme Court ruling.

You are an integrity monitor.

So your company works with sports leagues, sports teams, sports betting operators to monitor and identify and report suspicious betting behavior.

Just Wednesday, ESPN reported that there are even more NFL players expected to face season-long suspensions because of violating the League's gambling policy.

In particular, Isaiah Rodgers, the cornerback with the Colts, is accused of betting on his own games, on the Colts' own games.

What do you think this indicates about how bad integrity is in sports now, as a result of sports betting being legalized?

-I think it's actually the exact opposite.

I think it shows that the system is working now.

Go back to the years, you know, years ago when Vinny and his comrades here we're having to literally call each other and talk on the phone back and forth.

Hey, what are you seeing?

How is this going?

And we go back 30 years ago now to things like Arizona State, but Arizona State would never happen today.

We would never-- there would never be four fixed games and then we caught someone.

We catch them the first time every time.

We always talk about information, cooperation, and collaboration: the amount of information that we get from regulated sports betting operators in realtime; the cooperation from them--and we work with 93 of the 96 regulated sportsbooks in North America--the cooperation from them to be able to get an alert, respond in realtime so we could figure out what jurisdictions are affected in realtime; and then the collaboration from the leagues.

That's something that nobody ever got before.

Vegas didn't get that prior to the repeal of PASPA, but we get it now.

We work with every major-- almost every major professional collegiate sports league-- NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, UFC, NASCAR, PGA-- and they're committed to the integrity of their events.

So there is more information sharing than there's ever been.

There's more of a commitment to integrity than there has ever been.

And because of that, there's-- sports betting is new to everyone.

That includes the professional and collegiate athlete.

So they're learning the rules.

They're learning the system.

But we're using technology and this massive information sharing collaborative system, and I think it shows that the rules are working.

The processes are working.

Not that sports betting is bad, but now using technology and modern methods, we have the capabilities to catch everyone that's doing something wrong.

I think inevitably what you're going to see is a massive downturn in this spike.

As more and more education comes to these players, they're going to realize, hey, every time I log into a regulated Sports PAC-- -My question is what are they thinking?

-At the end of the day, nobody-- -They don't know how a phone works?

-But nobody-- -I thought-- -What was the thinking?

-We take it for granted when you log into a regulated mobile sports betting app, you are geo located to it, basically a three-foot radius.

If you go out and ask every major professional collegiate athlete, did you know every single time you log into this-- -Don't they order an Uber, for God's sake?

Come on.

-What about the Alabama coach?

I mean, I thought the same thing.

How did he not know that what-- I mean, he had to have known that if you're-- -The Alabama coach didn't get caught because of the actions necessarily of the Alabama coach, but because of his co-conspirators there who did-- and the diligent effort by the operators that were involved in their surveillance equipment, which is amazing.

-Can you explain how that worked, real quick.

-So at the end of the day, in that situation, it's very similar for us.

In most situations, we were notified by an operator in Ohio that they had physical evidence that the Alabama coach was involved in a potential match-fixing scandal with a college baseball game against LSU.

The operator already had collected that physical evidence, done an amazing job with their due diligence.

We then send out an alert, as we always do, in realtime to every other operator across North America.

They receive that alert.

They have six hours to respond.

We're able to identify that other jurisdictions were affected by co-conspirators.

At that point, we collect all the responses that we get from operators, aggregate them, put them into a comprehensive report, and now we can hand it off to the investigative agencies.

And they know this is what operator you need to contact.

This is where the evidence is.

This is who has been affected.

Then they were able to put in the Request for Evidence in this case.

And in this case, it was an individual, you know, talking to the coach or coordinating with the coach that really set it all off.

-And the coach called them and said, My star pitcher is not playing today.

-That's not exactly how it went.

-No?

-No.

I can't get into the details, because it's an ongoing investigation.

But, yes, they were able to use physical surveillance at the property to realize that it was the coach on the phone.

And then, of course, yes, there was some activity around the bets and then a pitching change from their star pitcher to a guy who hadn't made a start that year.

-Vinny?

-I think the key word that Matt mentioned is education, right?

I mean, the thing is, today, there are no secrets today.

I mean, I think players, whether they're professional or collegiate players, who in essence are professionals now too with NIL and things, the fact is, when in doubt, just don't do it.

Now, education on the part of our industry to help with that, I think it'll surprise people to know that as far back as the 1980s and 1990s, I personally, and some of my colleagues, addressed the professional leagues and the NCAA, especially after the unfortunate situation in 1995 with Arizona State, about how the industry works and that we share in the very concerns for integrity.

Every bookmaker, every licensed bookmaker, every bookmaker in the world wants the games, the events to be on the up-and-up and stress integrity.

Communication amongst colleagues, as Matt pointed out, not only took place then but takes place today.

You've got to have a good network.

And to help ensure that integrity and the regulations working with the regulators with corporate security in house, we have to abide by the federal banking regulation, Title 31, just like any other financial institution.

So there are a lot of things in place now that a lot of people don't realize.

But education with that, and working in conjunction-- we stand ready to work, continue to work with the leagues and with the NCAA to help that education process.

-Patrick, any concerns about sports integrity?

-Well, I don't have concerns.

I think it goes straight to the beginning of Matt's talking point there.

And that is, it shows this is working.

Because imagine where we're at if these things aren't being rooted out.

And imagine where we're at, as Vinny pointed out, if he and his peers 20, 30, 40 years ago hadn't started in on this.

And that's why I think there was so much pushback initially when PASPA got repealed.

And leagues--won't name any specific--were kind of pushing for, Well, we need integrity fees paid by the sportsbooks.

Look, the sportsbooks were the ones providing a great deal of that integrity to root out the Arizona State situation and others.

Especially Nevada.

Nevada was the gold standard there and had proven itself capable.

Now, not necessarily as quickly as now when you have Matt and his group, U.S.

Integrity, and this volume of information and communication going on that helps root out these instances even sooner, but the basis for that began, you know, decades ago.

And it shows that this has always been a concern with sportsbooks-- the games are on the up-and-up, the integrity is there.

And Matt and his group have just kind of taken it to the next level.

-Here's where it can get a little juicy here, a little bit controversial.

Matt, you told me in a conversation we had on the phone that Nevada is one of a few states that does not require an integrity monitor like yourself, does not require sportsbook operators to contract with them.

You think they should.

Vinny, do you think they should?

Let's start with you, Matt.

-We're able to send an alert in realtime.

The idea of, I'm going to call a bunch of people and with almost every book-- 93 of 96 in the country being a part of an integrity monitor system, we could send one alert and hit 93 people instantaneously, and they get responses in realtime.

And then they're notified that there's something going on with an event.

So 93 of the 96 books can discontinue taking wagering on that event, hold wagers that are deemed to be suspicious, and now we can start that communication process, that investigative process in realtime.

Anyone who's not part of that, you're not getting alerts.

Let's go back seven months.

UFC issue.

This happened here in our backyard.

And, again, this fighter didn't fix multiple.

We got him the first time.

That fighter, his trainer, another individual from that camp on indefinite suspensions, released from the UFC, that's a collaborative effort amongst everyone involved.

Anyone who's not part of that, how do you get the information?

And the idea of calling people now, why?

Like one call, it goes out on a system, an alert get it, 93 people get it instantly.

Why are we going to try to do it any different way?

I think at the end of the day, it's like anything.

When I was in high school, I used to contact my girlfriend using a beeper.

I wouldn't contact my wife using a beeper.

I can send her pictures on-- we have to go with what technology-- luckily regulators across the country have put in integrity mandates.

Those mandates enforce operators in all those states to participate in an integrity program.

Nobody's asking that they don't want to do it anymore.

At the end of the day, that integrity program allows us to get to 93 or 95% of the regulated operators in America in seconds with one call, with one action.

That's what's really important because speed counts.

And Vinny will tell you, the longer a game is up that we know has nefarious activity, the more bets that are taken, the more things that can go wrong with it, we want to get the information out as quickly as possible to as many people as possible.

That means there has to be one network where everyone's connected.

-And before I have you respond, Vinny, I did reach out to the Nevada Gaming Control Board to ask why they haven't implemented this.

They did not have a comment at this time.

Do you think it's necessary in Nevada to have an integrity monitor?

-With all due respect to Matt and his company, they do a terrific job.

But part of our job is to be able to identify that.

And in terms of with 45-plus years of experience, I need to be able to recognize what is an irregular betting pattern and things like that.

My colleagues and I, we have our network.

Again, in today's day and age, there are very few secrets out there.

You have the ability, if you suspect something is not right with a particular event or a game or something, we have the ability to just stop taking wagers on it and investigate what it is.

We can't put ourselves in a position to where every, say, five- and six-figure wager could be nefarious activity.

So you've got to draw the line between certainly what is overkill and what isn't.

And I'm not saying that it's overkill, by any means.

Again, integrity is first and foremost on our radar.

But we've, with the experience that we have, we feel that the regulations that are in place, our internal controls that are in place, and our network that's in place, that we do a good job of being able to identify if there's an impropriety.

-I want to move on to-- -You only get to see your bets.

At the end of the day, each operator only gets to see their own activity.

And now it's nationwide.

It's North America wide.

-But we network with our people.

If we see a pattern, we're going to be able to know if that pattern is taking place in other places as well, Matt.

-How does Nevada stay-- -That other person in the network would be obligated to call us because they're a part of the integrity-- Almost every book in Nevada--SuperBook, MGM, Circa, Caesars--they're all part of an integrity program.

So if somebody sees something in a state that none of them are even operating in, they get notified.

And at least they can look out for it.

I think at least we get coverage here across every book in North America that way.

-You want to add anything?

-I think, again, I'm not saying it's not-- I think what we have in place right now is working for us.

-It's sufficient.

-Bill, how does Nevada stay competitive in the sports betting industry?

-I think it-- well, it's interesting how it's evolved in the rest of the country versus here.

I was looking at some of the stats.

In New Jersey, mobile betting is about 95%.

Here it's in the mid to low 60s.

So there's a-- there's definitely a difference in how people bet in Nevada versus the rest of the country.

And some people think that that's why New Jersey has grown so quickly.

And it's probably one of the reasons.

I think one of the reasons, Vinny cited the numbers about the handle still being strong and growing, is the experience of Vegas, right, and that you do want to be in the books.

You want to experience Circa's Stadium Swim or, you know, the South Point in all its glory or SuperBook or any of the other books, because they are an experience.

I can't say, having been around the rest of the country, you get those kinds of experiences elsewhere.

-I don't think so.

Do you think the Circa with its pool, its huge TVs, you think that would have existed prior to this ruling, or did this ruling lead the way for something?

-I feel like I saw Derek sketch on a napkin back before the Supreme Court ruling.

You have to remember the Supreme Court ruling when VSiN started, the government was actually arguing against the Supreme Court even taking the case, if I'm correct on that.

-Yes.

-So it didn't seem very optimistic at the time.

We now say, Oh, yeah, the Supreme Court rejected the, you know, PASPA, but that isn't what we thought was going to happen early on,.

-Patrick, where is Nevada lacking in terms of staying competitive?

-I don't know if they're lacking.

I feel like as the evidence is borne out, that Vinny pointed to and Bill alluded to as well, that Nevada has done really well under this the last five years.

It's definitely helped.

I do think-- and I think in a lot of ways there are still things about Nevada and the way they operate sportsbooks and some of the operators themselves that are the gold standard.

But other states have shown, as Bill pointed out, that the ability to mobile bet-- not only to mobile bet, but to register remotely, to fund and withdraw remotely and so forth.

And that might be an area where the Gaming Control Board or the Gaming Commission might need to address that.

But I know Vinny and his peers have to do this delicate dance because to be a sportsbook operator in Nevada, you need to be tied to a physical retail sportsbook.

And those are generally casinos.

You need to drive traffic into those casinos too.

So it's a delicate dance.

I think Nevada has some room for improvement there.

But I know they've got-- it's a little bit-- it's tricky.

-I think the other thing noticed from the rest of the country in Nevada, frankly, is just the wagering options.

Like there's a broader menu in some of these other apps in the rest of the country.

But again, the numbers speak-- Nevada is still pretty strong.

-Speaking of numbers, when you look at that and you look at New Jersey and New York in particular, right, you've got 40 to 60 million people within an hour drive, or go across a bridge or through a tunnel.

And so you've got, you've got that aspect there.

Nevada will continue to evaluate what we do and what we need to do, and we'll continue to do that.

But as an event-driven destination-- which circles back to the integrity as well --Formula One, the Super Bowl, the NCAA Tournament, they wouldn't be here if they didn't feel comfortable.

-Gentlemen, we have run out of time.

I think we could have gone a lot longer, but I appreciate your time so much.