>> Announcer: MAJOR FUNDING FOR "CHAT BOX" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY FUEL MERCHANTS ASSOCIATION OF NEW JERSEY AND SMART HEAT NJ.

THE MEMBERS OF THE NEW JERSEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, MAKING PUBLIC SCHOOLS GREAT FOR EVERY CHILD.

NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY INSIDER NJ, A POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE NETWORK DEDICATED TO NEW JERSEY POLITICAL NEWS.

INSIDER NJ IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION, AND INSIGHT.

ONLINE AT INSIDERNJ.COM.

♪ >>> HI, EVERYBODY, WELCOME TO "CHAT BOX."

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

HEADING INTO THE FINAL WEEKS OF THE CAMPAIGN FOR GOVERNOR HERE IN NEW JERSEY, AND VOTERS APPEAR TO BE PAYING A LITTLE BIT MORE ATTENTION NOW.

WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT A RACE FROM A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES.

WE'LL HEAR FROM GOVERNOR CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN IN THE SECOND HALF OF THE SHOW, BUT WE BEGIN TODAY IN PRINCETON WHERE A GROUP LED BY LARRY HAMM OF THE PEOPLE'S ORGANIZATION FOR PROGRESS HAS JUST COMPLETED ANOTHER LEG OF WHAT WILL BE A 67-MILE WALK FROM MONTCLAIR TO TRENTON TO BRING ATTENTION TO ISSUES THAT HAVE DRAWN REALLY SHARP CONTRAST IN THIS GOVERNOR'S RACE.

GOOD TO WELCOME BACK TO THE PROGRAM, O.P.

CHAIRMAN LARRY HAMM.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN.

HOW YOU FEELING?

>> I'M DOING GOOD, DAVID, CAN YOU HEAR ME ALL RIGHT?

>> I CAN HEAR YOU FINE.

WHERE ARE YOU RIGHT NOW?

>> WE ARE OUTSIDE THE MUNICIPAL BUILDING IN PRINCETON WHERE WE HAD A RALLY AFTER THE -- AT THE END OF THE MARCH TODAY.

>> SO, IT'S THE LONG MARCH FOR JUSTICE.

FOR POLICE ACCOUNTABILITY, SOCIAL JUSTICE, AND ECONOMIC PROGRESS.

WHO'S WITH YOU ON THE WALK?

>> SAY AGAIN?

>> WHO'S WITH YOU ON THE WALK?

>> OH, WELL, MEMBERS OF THE PEOPLE'S ORGANIZATION FOR PROGRESS, MEMBERS OF AN ORGANIZATION CALLED -- AN ANTI-RACIST ORGANIZATION CALLED SURGE.

WHEN WE CAME TO PRINCETON, WE WERE JOINED BY A LATINO COMMUNITY GROUP.

WE WERE JOINED BY PASTORS FROM PRINCETON COMMUNITY.

WE WERE JOINED BY OUR REVOLUTION AND OTHER GROUPS.

>> SO -- >> GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATIONS.

>> SO, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW THIS WEEK'S GUBERNATORIAL DEBATE, BUT THOSE ISSUES, ACCOUNTABILITY, JUSTICE, PROGRESS, WERE THE ANSWERS THAT NEITHER SIDE DID VERY WELL AT ANSWERING.

DOES THAT SURPRISE YOU?

>> WELL, I'M NOT REALLY SURPRISED.

I'M A LITTLE DISAPPOINTED.

THE POLICE REVIEW BOARD BILL THAT WE'RE MARCHING FOR, POLICE REVIEW BOARDS WITH SUBPOENA POWERS, THAT BILL HAS BEEN IN THE LEGISLATURE FOR MORE THAN A YEAR NOW.

IT WOUND ITS WAY THROUGH THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS AND THE ONLY THING THAT REMAINS IS THAT IT BE PUT UP FOR A VOTE, THAT IT BE APPROVED, AND THAT THE GOVERNOR SIGN IT.

SO, I'M REALLY -- WE'RE REALLY MARCHING TODAY, CALLING UPON THE LEADERSHIP OF STATE GOVERNMENT, THE SPEAKER OF THE ASSEMBLY, THE PRESIDENT OF THE SENATE AND THE GOVERNOR TO MAKE THIS BILL, A-4656, POLICE REVIEW BOARD WITH SUBPOENA POWER, TO MAKE THIS BILL LAW.

>> SO, JACK CIATTARELLI SAYS THAT THE MURPHY ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN THE MOST ANTI-COP ADMINISTRATION IN THE HISTORY OF NEW JERSEY.

MEANWHILE, PHIL MURPHY IS BOASTING ABOUT HOW MANY POLICE ORGANIZATIONS ENDORSED HIM.

IS THE WORLD UPSIDE DOWN?

>> THE WORLD IS ALWAYS UPSIDE DOWN.

BUT THE POINT HERE IS THAT WE HAVE A BILL THAT COULD MAKE POLICE REVIEW BOARDS A REALITY IN THIS STATE, A BILL THAT GIVES MU MUNICIPALITIES THE OPTION TO DO IT.

IT'S NOT A BILL THAT MANDATES THAT THEY DO IT BUT IT ENABLES THOSE MUNICIPALITIES THAT WANT TO ESTABLISH A REVIEW BOARD TO DO SO AND THAT REVIEW BOARD CAN HAVE SUBPOENA POWER.

WITH NEED POLICE REVIEW BOARDS WITH TEETH AND WE BELIEVE THIS IS IMPORTANT STEP IN THE STRUGGLE TO COME TO GRIPS WITH THE PROBLEM OF POLICE BRUTALITY, PARTICULARLY IN OUR STATE.

>> YOU KNOW, NEITHER OF THESE CANDIDATES HAS SAID THAT THEY SUPPORT CIVILIAN COMPLAINT REVIEW BOARDS WITH SUBPOENA POWER.

THE CLOSEST ANYONE GOT THIS WEEK WAS THE GOVERNOR SAYING HE'D AGREE TO IT MAYBE ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.

EACH MUNICIPALITY DECIDING WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANTED TO HAVE A CCRB WITH SUBPOENA POWER.

>> RIGHT.

>> IS THAT A COMPROMISE THAT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE TO YOU?

>> WELL, I'M NOT EVEN CONSIDERING THAT A PROPOSAL.

THAT IS LANGUAGE THAT WAS USED AT A DEBATE, AND I WILL LEAVE IT THERE.

WHAT WE ARE DEMANDING IS THE PASSAGE OF THE BILL AND EVERYTHING THAT THE BILL CONTAINS, THAT'S WHAT WE WANT THE POLICE REVIEW BOARD TO HAVE.

AND AS I SAID, YOU KNOW, ONE MIGHT MAKE A COMPARISON, BUT LET'S JUST SAY AT THIS MOMENT THAT THE BILL GIVES MUNICIPALITIES THE OPTION OF HAVING A REVIEW BOARD.

THOSE THAT WANT IT CAN HAVE IT.

AND IF THEY HAVE REVIEW BOARDS, THOSE REVIEW BOARDS CAN HAVE SUBPOENA POWER.

SO, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE THAT FITS INTO THE GOVERNOR'S CASE-BY-CASE BASIS, BUT BEFORE ANYTHING CAN BE DONE, THE BILL HAS TO BE PASSED.

IT'S GONE THROUGH COMMITTEE.

IT'S READY FOR A VOTE.

THE ONLY THING THAT HAS TO HAPPEN IS FOR THE SPEAKER TO POST IT, FOR THE SENATE PRESIDENT TO POST IT, AND FOR THE GOVERNOR TO SIGN IT.

AND THAT'S WHAT WE WANT.

AND WHAT WE'RE ASKING FOR IS NOT PARTICULARLY RADICAL.

NEW YORK HAS HAD A POLICE REVIEW BOARD SINCE 1966.

THEY HAVE HAD A REVIEW BOARD WITH SUBPOENA POWER.

THE WORLD DIDN'T END.

THE SKY DIDN'T FALL.

SO WHAT'S THE PROBLEM HERE IN NEW JERSEY?

THE PROBLEM HERE IN NEW JERSEY IS THAT POLICE ORGANIZATIONS DO NOT WANT CIVILIAN OVERSIGHT.

THAT'S WHY NEW YORK HAS A POLICE REVIEW BOARD AND WE DON'T.

BECAUSE FOR 60 YEARS, THE F.O.P., THE PBA, THE SUPERVISORS ASSOCIATION, AND OTHER POLICE ORGANIZATI ORGANIZATIONS HAVE OPPOSED COMMUNITY REVIEW OF THE POLICE, HAVE OPPOSED OVERSIGHT.

WHO ARE THE LEGISLATORS GOING TO LISTEN TO?

THE PEOPLE THAT PUT THEM IN THE OFFICE OR THE PBA THAT ENDORSED DONALD TRUMP IN THE LAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION?

WHO ARE THEY GOING TO LISTEN TO?

>> LET ME ASK YOU THIS.

WE HAD, DURING THE DEBATE THIS WEEK, AN AUDIENCE, A LIVE AUDIENCE, HALF OF WHOM -- LITTLE MORE THAN HALF OF WHOM CHEERLEADER AT THE REFERENCES TO THE CONFEDERATE FLAG AND JEERED AT REFERENCES TO RACIAL EQUALITY.

HOW DID WE GET TO THIS POINT, OR HAVE WE ALWAYS BEEN THERE AND WE'RE JUST NOW STARTING TO REALIZE IT?

>> I THINK THE REALITY IS THAT THESE DEEP-SEATED RACIAL ANTAGONISMS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN WITH US.

WHAT WE HAVE NOW THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE BEFORE WAS A PRESIDENT THAT PLAYED UPON THOSE RACIAL ANTAGONISMS RATHER THAN SPEAKING TO RESOLVE THEM AND SOLVE THE PROBLEMS OF RACISM AND RACIAL INEQUALITY.

AND SO, WHAT WE SAW AT THE DEBATE WITH THEM CHEERING THE CONFEDERATE FLAG AND THEN BOOING ABOUT POLICE REVIEW BOARDS IS REALLY THE PRODUCT OF FOUR YEARS OF RACIAL ANTAGONISM THAT WAS FLAMED BY THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION.

BUT I NEED TO MAKE CLEAR THESE ANTAGONISMS WERE ALWAYS HERE.

POLICE BRUTALITY DIDN'T JUST START.

IT'S ALWAYS BEEN HERE.

WE'VE BEEN CAMPAIGNING AGAINST THE CONFEDERATE FLAG IN NEW JERSEY BACK IN THE '90s.

SO, WE KNOW THESE THINGS HAVE BEEN HERE, BUT WE ARE AT A UNIQUE MOMENT IN CONTEMPORARY HISTORY WHERE WE SEEM TO BE GOING BACKWARDS NOW.

IN FACT, SOMETIMES IT FEELS LIKE 1955 ALL OVER AGAIN.

>> THE PRESIDENT IS GOING TO BE IN NEWARK, FORMER PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA IS GOING TO BE IN NEWARK NEXT WEEK IN A GET OUT THE VOTE RALLY.

YOU'VE RUN IN A DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.

I'M ASSUMING THAT YOU ARE A DEMOCRAT.

ARE YOU CONCERNED WITH THE -- WHAT SOME PEOPLE ARE SAYING IS A LEVEL OF APATHY AMONG DEMOCRATS, CLEARLY NOT YOU INCLUDED, BUT ARE YOU CONCERNED WITH DEMOCRATS STAYING HOME ON ELECTION DAY?

>> WELL, I'M VERY CONCERNED.

QUITE FRANKLY, I CAN'T SEE THE STATE CEDING -- GIVING ITSELF OVER TO A TRUMPIST WHO WANTS TO BE GOVERNOR.

THAT WOULD NOT BE AN ADVANCE.

WE HAVE ISSUES WITH GOVERNOR MURPHY, BUT I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO SEE A DONALD TRUMP WANNABE AS OUR GOVERNOR AND THAT'S WHAT CIATTARELLI SOUNDS LIKE TO ME.

I DO URGE PEOPLE TO COME OUT TO VOTE.

WE'RE PAST VOTING REGISTRATION, IN FACT, YESTERDAY WAS THE LAST DAY FOR VOTER REGISTRATION IN THE STATE, SO NOW IS THE TIME FOR VOTER MOBILIZATION.

EVERYBODY NEEDS TO COME OUT AND VOTE.

AND VOTE LIKE IT'S THE PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION.

VOTE LIKE IT'S A VERY, VERY IMPORTANT ELECTION, BECAUSE IT IS.

YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO SEE THE STATE GO IN A PROGRESSIVE DIRECTION, NOT GO BACKWARDS TOWARD RACISM AND DIVISION.

>> ALL RIGHT, LARRY HAMM, THE CHAIRMAN OF THE PEOPLE'S ORGANIZATION FOR PROGRESS, GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN.

KEEP WALKING, AND STAY SAFE.

>> YOU TOO.

TAKE CARE.

>> THE RACE FOR GOVERNOR, AS WE'VE SAID, HEADING INTO THE HOME STRETCH.

THE FINAL DEBATE TOOK PLACE THIS WEEK, AND NOW IT'S DOWN TO TV ADS AND STREET TEAMS, BUT THERE ARE IMPORTANT VOICES STILL TO BE HEARD FROM.

ONE OF THOSE IS THE FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW JERSEY, CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN.

GOVERNOR, GOOD TO SEE YOU AGAIN.

WELCOME.

>> GOOD TO SEE YOU, DAVID.

GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> SO, YOU WANTED TO FURTHER ENDEAR YOURSELF WITH REPUBLICANS BY AUTHORING AN OP-ED IN THE "TIMES" TELLING THEM TO VOTE FOR DEMOCRATS?

WHAT POINT WERE YOU TRYING TO MAKE HERE?

>> AND DEMOCRATS SHOULD VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS.

IT'S TIME TO PUT ASIDE PARTY LABELS SP LABELS AND THINK ABOUT OUR DEMOCRACY.

AND WE NEED PEOPLE WHO WILL WORK TOGETHER, PEOPLE WHO WILL STAND UP TO THIS BIG LIE THAT WE KEEP HEARING THAT SOMEHOW THE 2020 ELECTION WAS STOLEN, THAT THERE WAS MASSIVE FRAUD.

THERE'S NO PROOF THERE.

IN FACT, IT HAS BEEN ADJUDICATED OVER 60 TIMES WITH JUDGES, SOME OF WHOM WERE APPOINTED BY DONALD TRUMP HIMSELF, WHO SAID THERE'S JUST NO THERE THERE AND WE'VE GOT TO STOP THIS BECAUSE IT'S UNDERMINING THE PUBLIC'S CONFIDENCE IN OUR ELECTORAL SYSTEM AND WE SHOULD BE ENORMOUSLY PROUD OF WHAT HAPPENED IN 2020, BECAUSE IN THE MIDST OF A PANDEMIC, AT A TIME WHEN THE INCUMBENT ADMINISTRATION HAS BEEN TELLING EVERYBODY THAT THEY WERE GOING TO BE MASSIVE FRAUD, PEOPLE STILL CAME OUT IN RECORD NUMBERS AND IT WAS A FREE, FAIR, AND ACCURATE ELECTION.

BUT WHAT WE'RE SEEING NOW IS AN EFFORT TO UNDERMINE THAT CONFIDENCE SO THAT WE, IN 2022 OR 2024, THE GO-TO IS IF YOU LOSE, YOU DON'T CONCEDE.

YOU SUE.

AND IT COSTS TAXPAYERS A LOT OF MONEY.

IT'S DISRUPTIVE AND IT'S JUST WRONG WHEN WE HAVE ELIGIBLE VOTERS WHO ACCURATELY VOTE AND WE HAVE THE RIGHT PEOPLE OVERSEEING THOSE ELECTIONS.

SO, WHAT WE'RE DOING IS SAYING TO PEOPLE, HERE'S A LIST OF THOSE REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE STOOD UP AGAINST THE BIG LIE WHO ARE THOSE WHO ARE WILLING TO WORK WITH THE OTHER SIDE OF THE AISLE AND IF THEY ARE BEING CHALLENGED BY AN EXTREME ON THE OTHER SIDE, YOU SHOULD VOTE FOR THEM BECAUSE WHAT WE WANT TO DO IS GET A GOVERNMENT BACK THAT'S WORKING FOR US, AND SO THOSE ARE PEOPLE WHO WON'T PUT ASIDE PARTY LABELS WHEN THE ISSUE IS BIGGER THAN A REPUBLICAN OR A DEMOCRAT.

IT'S ABOUT THE COUNTRY.

>> BUT IN THIS CASE, IT'S AN EXTREMISM BROUGHT ON, BY AS YOU SUGGESTED, DONALD TRUMP, AND HIS SUPPORTERS.

IT'S SHOCKING TO ME THAT A MAN LIKE DONALD TRUMP COULD HAVE SUCH AN IMPACT, BECAUSE HE'S NOT PARTICULARLY INTELLIGENT.

HE'S NOT PARTICULARLY IDEOLOGICAL.

BUT HE WAS ABLE TO GARNER 70 MILLION VOTES.

THERE HAD TO HAVE BEEN SOMETHING THERE.

THIS KXENOPHOBIA THAT HE HAS INSPIRED, THIS RACISM HE ENCOURAGED HAD TO HAVE ALL BEEN THERE IN THAT PARTY, NO?

>> IT'S ALL BEEN THERE IN OUR HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, UNFORTUNATELY.

IT JUST WAS NEVER OKAY TO ACT ON IT.

IT WAS NEVER OKAY TO BRING IT OUT IN THE OPEN AND OPENLY ATTACK PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN OR THE WAY THEY WORSHIP OR WHO THEY LOVED.

I MEAN, THAT JUST WAS NEVER SOMETHING THAT WAS OKAY TO GO OUT AND SAY, AND NOW YOU KNOW WHAT, DAVID?

WE HAVE 21 MILLION AMERICANS WHO SAY IT'S OKAY TO ENGAGE IN VIOLENCE TO OVERTHROW AN ELECTION, AND JANUARY 6th WAS JUST THE TIP OF THAT ICEBERG.

WE NEED TO BE CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

THAT'S NOT WHO WE ARE AS A NATION, I DON'T BELIEVE.

AND MORE PEOPLE WILL STAND UP TO IT, BUT YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, DONALD TRUMP TAPPED INTO A FRUSTRATION AND AN ANGER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE AGAINST OUR CONGRESS THAT HAVE BEEN SO DYSFUNCTIONAL.

THEY WEREN'T MAKING DECISIONS ON THE BIG ISSUES THAT PEOPLE REALLY CARE ABOUT.

AND THEY WERE SICK AND TIRED OF THIS PARTISAN BACKING AND FORTHING AND THEY WANTED SOMEONE WHO SAID, I'LL TURN IT ALL OVER AND I'LL JUST REPRESENT YOU.

UNFORTUNATELY, THEY PICKED SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY DOESN'T DO THAT AND HASN'T DONE THAT.

IN FACT, ALL HE IS DOING IS TRYING TO SET US UP SO THAT WE HAVE A -- AN AUTOCRACY.

HE WOULD LIKE TO BE THE SOLE RULER, AS IT WERE, AND THE CONSTITUTION SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN AN INCONVENIENT DOCUMENT TO HIM AND HE DIDN'T CARE ABOUT THE RULE OF LAW AT ALL, AND THAT SHOULD WORRY ALL OF US.

>> AND -- BUT THESE ARE ALL PEOPLE WHO SUPPORTED HIM, AS I SAID, 70 MILLION PEOPLE, YOU HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THERE ARE THOSE EXTREME ELEMENTS IN THERE WHOSE THINKING, AS WE SAID, WAS ALREADY PREDISPOSED TO THESE KINDS OF THINGS.

HOW DO YOU CHANGE THIS?

HOW DO WE GO FROM WHAT SEEMED TO BE AT LEAST DISCORDANT BUT NOT POTENTIALLY VIOLENT DISAGREEMENT TO WHAT WE HAVE TODAY WHICH IS WE'RE RIGHT ON THE BORDER OF, AS YOU SUGGESTED, A POLL THAT SAYS 21% OF PEOPLE THINK IT'S OKAY TO USE VIOLENCE.

>> 21 MILLION AMERICANS.

THAT'S A SCARY NUMBER.

WHAT WE DO AND FOR INSTANCE, THE RESTORE AMERICA MOVEMENT HAS JUT PUT OUT -- WE'VE JUST PUT OUT A LIST OF REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS WHO HAVE STOOD UP TO THE BIG LIE AND WHAT WE NEED TO DO AS AMERICANS, AS WE COME INTO THIS ELECTION CYCLE, IS TO SUPPORT THOSE PEOPLE, TO HAVE THEIR BACK BECAUSE THEY'RE STANDING UP TO THEIR PARTY LEADERS, IN MANY CASES.

THEY'RE WILLING TO SAY, THIS IS JUST WRONG.

WE HAVE TO DO THINGS IN A WAY THAT IS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY AND RESPECTS THE CONSTITUTION AND THE RULE OF LAW.

BUT NOBODY'S HAD THEIR BACK BEFORE, AND WHAT WE HAVE DONE IS BEEN STRATEGIC IN THOSE RACES WHERE IT'S NOT THOSE DISTRICTS AREN'T SO BIASED THAT THERE'S NO HOPE OF SOMEBODY FROM THE OTHER PARTY WINNING, BUT WHERE WE HAVE INCUMBENTS WHO HAVE STOOD UP AND IT'S A, YOU KNOW, A 1% OR 2% MARGIN DISTRICT WHERE SUPPORTING THEM, WE DON'T HAVE TO PULL EVERYBODY, YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE EVERYBODY IN THE WORLD.

THIS IS DOABLE.

GET A SMALL NUMBER OF REPUBLICANS TO VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT CANDIDATE IF THEIR CHOICE IS AN EXTREME REPUBLICAN, GO FOR A CENTRIST DEMOCRAT AND WE'RE SAYING TO DEMOCRATS, IF YOUR CHOICE IS A FAR-LEFT DEMOCRAT, GO FOR A CENTRIST REPUBLICAN.

AND IT WON'T TAKE MANY VOTES TO CHANGE THOSE DISTRICTS OR TO ENSURE THAT RIGHT NOW THE LIST IS INCUMBENTS BUT WE WILL SOON BE COMING OUT WITH A LIST -- WELL, TWO LISTS, ACTUALLY, ONE THAT SAYS THESE ARE THE BAD ACTORS, THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE GONE OUT THERE AND SUPPORTED THIS LIE.

THESE ARE THE PEOPLE, THE MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENES OF THE WORLD WHO COME UP WITH EXTRAORDINARY CONSPIRACY THEORIES WHO DON'T DESERVE TO BE IN OUR CONGRESS, WHO ARE NOT PEOPLE WORKING FOR THE GREATER GOOD AND THEN WE'LL HAVE A LIST OF CANDIDATES WHO ARE FIRST-TIMERS, CHALLENGERS, AND OF WHO WE THINK WE SHOULD SUPPORT AND LET PEOPLE MAKE THE DECISIONS, GO ONLINE, CHECK THEM OUT FOR THE CURRENT LIST, YOU CAN GO TO THE RESTORE AMERICA MOVEMENT, BUT THEN I'M ALSO PART OF SOMETHING CALLED THE STATES UNITED DEMOCRACY CENTER AND WE'RE MORE FOCUSED ON WORKING, CONNECTING THOSE IN PUBLIC OFFICE WHO ARE PUSHING BACK AGAINST SOME OF THESE LAWSUITS TO START YET ANOTHER RECOUNT OF THE 2020 ELECTION, WHICH IS MIND-BOGGLING AND JUST COSTING TAXPAYERS A BUNCH OF MONEY, OR WHO ARE TRYING TO FIGHT BACK AGAINST SOME OF THESE LAWS THAT ARE BEING PASSED TO TAKE THE OVERSIGHT ADMINISTRATION OF ELECTIONS AWAY FROM THE PEOPLE TRAINED TO DO IT AND PUT IT IN THE HANDS OF THE PARTISAN LEGISLATURES AND WE'RE WORKING WITH THEM, GIVING THEM TOOLS AND HELPING THEM WITH LEGAL CHALLENGES AND LANGUAGE AS WELL AS GIVING THEM THE SUPPORT THEY NEED TO TRY TO DO THAT.

TO PUSH BACK AGAINST THAT.

>> WE -- I KNOW THAT YOU HAVE BEEN THROUGH A CAMPAIGN OR TWO.

HAD YOUR SHARE OF DEBATES.

I DON'T KNOW IF YOU SAW THIS WEEK'S DEBATE IN THE GOVERNOR'S RACE, BUT WE HAD AN AUDIENCE THAT WAS QUITE RAUCOUS THAT CHEERED AT THE -- AT REFERENCES TO THE CONFEDERATE FLAG AND JEERED TO REFERENCES TO RACIAL EQUALITY AND SCHOOL DESEGREGATION.

I MEAN, YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH A FEW ELECTIONS, AS I SAID.

HAVE YOU EVER EXPERIENCED ANYTHING LIKE THAT IN NEW JERSEY AND HOW MUCH DOES THAT CONCERN YOU?

>> YES, I DID.

THERE WERE CERTAINLY THOSE FACTIONS IN THE STATE, NO QUESTION ABOUT IT.

AND I WAS ON THE RECEIVING END OF SOME OF THAT.

BUT AGAIN, THE MAJORITY OF NEW JERSEYANS AREN'T THERE.

THEY'RE NOT THERE.

THEY MAY COME TOGETHER IN SMALL GROUPS AND BE VERY LOUD, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAT'S HOW THEY REALLY SEE OUR STATE.

I MEAN, WHAT GIVES OUR STATE SUCH STRENGTH IS THE IMMIGRATION.

WE HAVE 150 DIFFERENT LANGUAGES SPOKING IN JERSEY CITY ALONE, AND THAT GIVES US -- MAKES US WHO WE ARE.

WE'RE BETTER FOR THE FACT THAT WE ARE A MULTIRACIAL STATE.

IT SETS US APART.

IT'S MADE US SUCCESSFUL IN THE PAST.

BUT THERE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THOSE ELEMENTS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE THREATENED.

THEY'RE FEARFUL.

THAT'S PART OF IT.

THEY'RE SCARED OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T LOOK LIKE THEM.

THEY'RE SCARED THEY'RE GOING TO LOSE THEIR PLACE IN SOCIETY.

THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO BE, PARTICULARLY WHITE PEOPLE, THAT THEY ARE NO LONGER GOING TO BE THE DOMINANT RACE, AND THAT, FOR THEM, IS TERRIFYING FOR SOME OF THEM.

I'M NOT SURE WHY.

THERE'S NO NEED FOR THAT.

BUT THAT'S WHERE THEY ARE, AND YOU JUST HAVE TO KEEP TRYING TO WORK WITH THEM, TO SHOW THEM THAT THAT'S NOT A FEAR THAT THEY NEED TO HAVE.

>> SO, WHAT ABOUT THIS GOVERNOR'S RACE NOW?

DO EITHER OF THESE TWO CANDIDATES REPRESENT EXTREME ELEMENTS IN THEIR PARTY?

AND ARE THEY THE KIND OF CANDIDATES THAT YOU WERE REFERRING TO IN YOUR OP-ED?

>> WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT'S NOW DOWN AS IT IS IN EVERY ELECTION AND YOU HEAR IT ALL THE TIME, IT'S THE GET OUT THE VOTE.

IT'S GETTING YOUR BASE OUT.

AND IT APPEARS TO ME THAT THE REPUBLICAN TICKET HAS DECIDED THAT THEIR BASE IS THE TRUMP BASE.

AND THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE GOING FOR.

THEY'RE COUNTING ON THE FACT THAT THE DEMOCRATS MAY NOT BE ALL THAT ENTHUSIASTIC ABOUT THE INCUMBENT GOVERNOR.

YES, THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT ISSUES AROUND HIM, BUT WHAT'S REALLY -- WHAT THEY'RE REALLY DRILLING DOWN ON IS THOSE THAT YOU MENTIONED BEFORE ON, YOU KNOW, SEGREGATED SCHOOL BUSSING, ALL THOSE ISSUES THEY BRING UP AGAIN AND THE INCUMBENT GOVERNOR HAS GOT TO TRY TO ENERGIZE HIS DEMOCRATS SO THEY DON'T TAKE FOR GRANTED THAT BECAUSE HE'S THE INCUMBENT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A MILLION MORE REGISTERED DEMOCRATS THAN REPUBLICANS IN THIS STATE, THAT THAT'S AN AUTOMATIC WIN FOR HIM.

IT IS NOT.

THE REPUBLICAN CHALLENGERS HAVE A SHOT.

AND THINGS ARE GOING TO TIGHTEN, OBVIOUSLY, IN THIS LAST MONTH.

THEY ALWAYS DO.

BUT WHAT THEY SEEM TO BE COUNTING ON IS APPEALING TO THAT TRUMP BASE BECAUSE THOSE PEOPLE VOTE.

THEY WILL COME OUT AND VOTE AND AS LONG AS THEY STAY ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THEM, I SHOULD SAY, THE CORRECT SIDE EXCEPT IT SEEMS TO BE THE RIGHT SIDE, THE CORRECT SIDE OF THEM, THEY CAN WIN.

AND THAT SEEMS TO BE THE CALCULATION THAT'S GOING ON, AND IT'S DISAPPOINTING TO ME, BECAUSE YOU KNOW, I'VE ALWAYS KNOWN THOSE -- THERE ARE REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES, I KNOW THEM BOTH, GUBERNATORIAL AND LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR CANDIDATES, AND SOME OF THE POSITIONS THEY'RE ESPOUSING NOW ARE NOT WHAT THEY ESPOUSED BACK WHEN I WAS GOVERNOR, WHEN WE WORKED TOGETHER.

>> DOES IT THEN CONFIRM WHAT WE ALL KIND OF HAVE BEEN SUGGESTING AND THE NUMBERS SUGGEST AS WELL THAT THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IN NEW JERSEY IS, IN FACT, THE PARTY OF TRUMP AND THE PARTY OF THE MOST CONSERVATIVE THINKERS IN NEW JERSEY?

>> I THINK ALL THE ORGANIZED REPUBLICAN PARTIES AROUND THE COUNTRY ARE THE PARTY OF TRUMP.

BUT THAT'S WHY YOU HAVE -- YOU HAVE 50% OF REGISTERED VOTERS ACROSS THE COUNTRY NOW ARE INDEPENDENTS.

AND THE REPUBLICAN PARTY HAS LOST MORE THAN THE DEMOCRAT PARTY AND THAT'S HAPPENED HERE IN THIS STATE TOO.

WE HAVE NOT BUCKED THAT TREND AT ALL.

AND THAT'S PEOPLE WHO ARE SAYING A POX ON BOTH YOUR HOUSES.

I DON'T LIKE THIS EXTREMISM.

BUT PARTICULARLY FOR REPUBLICANS, BECAUSE YOU SEE MORE REPUBLICANS LEAVE THE PARTY THAN DEMOCRATS LEAVE THEIR PARTY, ALTHOUGH THEY'RE LOSING TOO.

SO, IT SHOULD BE A WARNING TO THE TWO PARTIES THAT THEY'D BETTER BE CAREFUL, TO STOP THIS SLIDE TO THE EXTREMES BECAUSE OUR COUNTRY DOESN'T WORK WELL THAT WAY.

OUR COUNTRY, WE GET THINGS DONE WHEN PEOPLE CAN WORK TOGETHER.

WHEN THEY WORK ACROSS THE AISLE FOR THE GREATER GOOD, WHEN THEY PUT ASIDE PARTY LABELS IN ORDER TO SUPPORT WHAT'S RIGHT FOR THE COUNTRY.

AND THAT'S TRUE HERE IN NEW JERSEY AS WELL.

>> IS OUR SENSE OF CIVILITY, THOUGH, GONE IN POLITICS?

>> WELL, DON'T FORGET, BACK DURING THE CIVIL WAR, WE HAD SENATORS HITTING EACH OTHER OVER THE HEAD WITH CANES AND SENT THEM TO THE HOSPITAL.

IT HASN'T GOTTEN QUITE THAT BAD IN THE HALLS OF CONGRESS BUT JANUARY 6th WAS AN EFFORT TO OVERTURN THE ELECTION.

THAT WAS AN INSURRECTION.

THAT WAS NOT A GROUP OF PEACEFUL PEOPLE GOING TO PROTEST THE FACT THAT THEY LOST AN ELECTION.

THAT WAS PEOPLE WHO WERE HELL BENT ON OVERTURNING THE ELECTION, ON STOPPING THE COUNT OF THE ELECTORAL VOTES, AND THAT IS JUST WAY OUTSIDE THE NORM FOR THE UNITED STATES.

AND WE ALL WANT TO BE REALLY CONCERNED ABOUT THAT.

>> AND NO ONE SHOULD THINK THAT SOMETHING LIKE THAT COULDN'T VERY WELL HAPPEN AGAIN.

CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN, GOVERNOR, THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US, ALWAYS GOOD TO TALK TO YOU.

>> GOOD TO TALK TO YOU.

>> THAT'S "CHAT BOX" FOR THIS WEEK.

THANK ALSO TO LARRY HAMM.

YOU CAN FOLLOW US ON TWITTER, @DAVIDCRUZNJ.

BE SURE TO SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL TO GET MORE "CHAT BOX," NJ BUSINESS BEAT WITH RHONDA SCHAFFLER AND NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS WITH BRIANA VANNOZZI.

FOR THE ENTIRE CREW, I'M DAVID CRUZ.

THANKS FOR WATCHING.

SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>> Announcer: MAJOR FUNDING FOR "CHAT BOX" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY FUEL MERCHANTS ASSOCIATION OF NEW JERSEY AND SMART HEAT NJ.

THE MEMBERS OF THE NEW JERSEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, MAKING PUBLIC SCHOOLS GREAT FOR EVERY CHILD.

NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY INSIDER NJ, A POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE NETWORK DEDICATED TO NEW JERSEY POLITICAL NEWS.

INSIDER NJ IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION, AND INSIGHT.

ONLINE AT INSIDERNJ.COM.

--Captions by VITAC -- www.vitac.com