[♪♪] >> Renee: GOOD EVENING AND WELCOME TO KEN "KENTUCKY TONIGHT" I'M RENEE SHAW THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

TONIGHT'S TOPIC STATE OF THE NEWS MEDIA.

WAY WE GET NEWS AND INFORMATION IS EVOLVING WITH DIGITAL AND SOCIAL MEDIA PLATFORMS MAKING UP MORE AND MORE OF CONSUMERS' NEWS DIETS, ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE, AND DECLINE IN TV AND NEWSPAPER DISAND MISINFORMATION AND ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS ARE SOME OF THE CHALLENGES FACING THE JOURNALISM INDUSTRY.

THERE IS A LOT TO DISCUSS AND WE HAVE A STELLAR PANEL OF VETERAN JOURNALISTS IN OUR LEXINGTON STUDIOS WE HAVE AL CROSS, VETERAN JOURNALIST AND DIRECTOR EMERITUS OF THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY INSTITUTE FOR COMMUNITY ISSUES.

RICK GREEN EXECUTIVE EDITOR OF THE LEXINGTON HERALD LEADER.

JAMIE LUCKE EDITOR AND CHIEF OF THE KENTUCKY LANTERN AND MICHAEL ABATE FIRST AMENDMENT AND MEDIA LAW ATTORNEY.

AND JOINING U'SELLIS BY SKYPE IS JENNIFER BROWN EDITOR OF HOPTOWN CHRONICLE.

WE WANT TO HEAR WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY TONIGHT.

YOU CAN SEND YOUR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS AT X FORMERLY TWITTER.

SEND AN E-MAIL TO KET.ORG OR USE THE WEB FORM AT KET.ORG/KY TONIGHT.

OR YOU CAN GIVE US A CALL AT 1-800-494-7605.

WELCOME EVERYONE.

A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE WAITING TO CHIME IN ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE TONIGHT.

BUT YOU WANT TO START WITH YOU AL CROSS AND THANK JENIFER FOR JOINING US BY SKYPE.

Mr. CROSS, WHAT ABOUT J JOURNALISM IS.

DEFINE WHAT THAT IS.

WE ARE NOT TALKING SHOP BUT WHERE THE VIEWERS HAVE GET THE JAM.

WHAT IS THE BIG J JOURNALISM?

>> IT IS A BROADCAST TERM AND AS IT CAME TO ME A CONSULTANT THAT A LOCAL CONSULTANT TO A LOCAL STATION WAS TALKING ABOUT HOW THE ANCHORS NEEDED TO BE MORE CHATTY AND FRIENDLY.

AND ONE OF THE REPORTERS QUESTIONED THAT SORT OF FOCUS AND SAID WHAT ABOUT THE HARD NEWS?

AND THE CONSULTANT SAID YOU WANT TO HANG THE BIG J ON THE WALL.

IT MEANS JOURNALISM.

WHICH THIS IS MY ELEVATOR SPEECH.

IT PRACTICES A DISCIPLINE OF VERIFICATION.

WE TELL YOU HOW WE KNOW SOMETHING OR WE ATTRIBUTE IT TO SOMEBODY AND WE'RE ABOUT FACTS AND NOT ABOUT OPINION.

SOCIAL MEDIA ARE MAINLY ABOUT OPINION NOT FACTS.

>> Renee: AND NO VERIFICATION.

>> AND LITTLE IF ANY DISCIPLINE OR VERIFICATION.

WHO ARE YOU GOING TO TRUST FOR YOUR NEWS?

MOST AMERICANS DO NOT THINK MUCH ABOUT THAT AND GET MOST OF THEIR NEWS FROM SOCIAL MEDIA OR BROADCASTERS WHO FOLLOW THE CONSULTANT'S ADVICE.

>> Renee: LOCAL JOURNALISM, RIGHT, GETS BIGGER SCORES FROM CONSUMERS THAN PERHAPS HOW WE LOOK AT THE BIG FOOTS NATIONALLY?

>> AND THAT IS NO SURPRISE BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE MORE FAMILIAR WITH THE PEOPLE AT THESE LOCAL NEWS OUTLETS.

THEY KNOW AND TRUST THE ANCHORS AND THE EDITORS AND THE REPORTERS.

AND WHEN YOU KNOW A PERSON, YOU ARE MORE LIKELY TO TRUST THEIR WORK AND FEEL LIKE YOU HAVE SOMETHING IN COMMON WITH THEM.

BUT THOSE NEWS OUTLETS ARE BEING DECIMATED BY THE DIGITAL REVOLUTION, REALLY.

YOU HAVE SO MANY PLATFORMS ON WHICH BUSINESSES NOW FIND EASY TO ADVERTISE.

THAT THE OLD BUSINESS MODEL OF NEWSPAPERS HAS LARGELY BEEN DISINTEGRATED AND THEY HAVE TO DEPEND ON THE AUDIENCE FOR THE REVENUE AND REGULAR TELEVISION STATIONS ARE HAVING PROBLEMS BECAUSE THEY FACE ISSUES WITH STREAMING AND OTHER SOURCES OF INFORMATION.

AND FRANKLY, A PUBLIC THAT DOESN'T CARE AS MUCH ABOUT THE NEWS AS IT USED TO.

>> Renee: RICK GREEN HOW DO YOU SEE IT?

>> FIRST OFF IT IS A PLEASURE TO BE HERE WITH TWO INCREDIBLE LEGENDS IN KENTUCKY IN JOURNALISM AND THE GUY WHO SAVED MY BUTT MANY TIMES OVER THE YEARS.

I'VE BEEN A BELIEVER THAT TWO THINGS CAN BE TRUE AT ONCE.

AND I FEEL THE PAIN AL FIRST, SO MUCH ON THE FRONTLINES AND FEEL IT PERSONALLY OF THE CHALLENGES AND THE CHANGES THAT HAVE UNFOLDED AND IT IS NOT A EASY TIME TO BE A JOURNALIST.

BUT THE OTHER SIDE OF ME IS SO EXCITED ABOUT GOING TO THE OFFICE EVERY MORNING, OPENING UP MY LAPTOP AND STARTING THE DAY KNOWING THERE ARE FEW PROFESSIONS JETSTREAM R NOT JUST IN KENTUCKY OR THE COUNTRY OR THE WORLD WHERE THE WORK WE DO THAT DAY CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN SOMEONE'S LIFE.

WE CAN RIGHT A WRONG SAME SOMEONE'S LIFE.

IT IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT TO SAY IT'S CHEMICALLING.

WE HAVE ALL SEEN THE STATISTICS FEWER AND FEWER PEOPLE ARE CONSUMING NEWS AND THE WAYS THEY WANT TO SEE THE NEWS CHANGED GREATLY.

WE CAN REMEMBER WHEN IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO WHERE EVERY MORNING STARTED WITH A CUP OF COFFEE AND THE NEWSPAPER ON THE FRONT PORCH OR WHATEVER AND NOW FOR ME THE DEVICE HAS CHANGED EVERYTHING THAT WE DO.

IN TERMS OF DISTRIBUTION.

YOU TALKED ABOUT US PRIMARILY BEING IN THE PRINT PROFESSION.

I DON'T VIEW THAT THOUGH I'M EDITOR OF THE HERALD LEADER I AM IN THE CONTENT BUSINESS AND HERE WHEN YOU WAKE UP.

AND I'M HERE WHEN YOU GO TO SLEEP AND OUT AND ABOUT.

I SURE DO, I PUBLISH A NEWSPAPER.

BUT IT'S MORE ABOUT HOW DO WE DELIVER MEANINGFUL CONTENT NO MATTER WHAT DEVICE, WHAT PLATFORM, THE PEOPLE WANT TO READ IT.

>> Renee: HOW ARE YOU TRYING TO CHANGE THE BRAND OF THE HERALD LEADER?

>> YOU KNOW, AL TALKED ABOUT THE BIG CHANGE IN JOURNALISM AND I'VE USED THAT TERM TO BE MORE THAN JUST PEDESTRIAN COVERAGE OF A CITY COUNCIL MEETING OR THINGS THAT UNFOLD IN THE STATE HOUSE.

TO ME IT'S THAT LEFT HOOK AS IT RELATES TO HIGH QUALITY PROMINENT JOURNALISM THAT MAKES A DIFFERENT.

SO THE HERALD LEADER HAS BEEN IN THIS COMMUNITY SINCE 1870.

WE'RE CELEBRATING OUR 154TH ANNIVERSARY AS KENTUCKY'S CHANGED WE'VE HAD TO CHANGE.

SO I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO BE THE ESSENTIAL SOURCE FOR LOCAL NEWS NOT JUST IN LEXINGTON OR CENTRAL KENTUCKY BUT FOR ALL THE COMMONWEALTH WE TRY OUR BEST TO DO THAT NOT ONLY FROM THE STATE HOUSE COVERAGE AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS ISSUES FROM AN INVESTIGATIVE WATCHDOG PERSPECTIVE, TOO.

>> Renee: JAMIE YOU ARE THE NEW KID ON THE BLOCK, THE KENTUCKY LANTERN.

>> A YEAR-AND-A-HALF OLD FROM A LARGER ORGANIZATION CALLED STATE'S NEWSROOM.

WE ARE NONPROFIT ALL DIGITAL, ALL FREE.

NO PAY WALLS AND WE ENCOURAGE OTHER PUBLICATIONS TO BE PUBLISH OUR WORK.

>> Renee: IS THAT A SUSTAINABLE BUSINESS MODEL?

>> WE'LL FIND OUT.

I WAS JUST AT A MEETING OF ALL THE MY COUNTERPARTS FROM 39 OTHER STATES AND LEADERS OF STATES NEWSROOM AND WE WERE ASSURED THAT FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE WE'RE SECURE.

AND THAT THE GOOD NEWS IS FOUNDATIONS ARE STARTING TO COME TO US.

WE DO DEPEND ON DON -- DONORS.

>> Renee: WHAT INFORMATION GAP ARE YOU TRYING TO FILL?

>> AS ALLEN SAID, NEWSPAPERS HAVE BEEN THROUGH A DRAMATIC DOWNSIZING.

WE'VE LOST NEWSPAPERS AND ALMOST ALL NEWSPAPERS HAVE HAD TO REDUCE THEIR STAFFS.

AND ONE OF THE AREAS THAT HAS BEEN MOST IMPACTED BY THE LOSS OF JOURNALISTS IS STATE GOVERNMENT COVERAGE.

SO OUR FOCUS IS TO FILL THAT GAP.

NOW, ACTUALLY IN KENTUCKY, I WOULD SAY WE'VE BOTH HERALD LEADER AND THE COURIER JOURNAL MAINTAINED ROBUST CAPITOL COVERAGE AND WE HAVE NONPROFITS THAT COVER THE CAPITOL.

SO THAT KIND OF GIVES US THE FREEDOM TO RANGE OUT ACROSS THE STATE.

BUT OUR FOCUS IS POLICY.

WE WANT TO EXPLAIN, ILLUMINATE AND WE WANT TO INVESTIGATE HOW POLICY AFFECTS PEOPLE IN KENTUCKY IN THEIR DAY-TO-DAY LIVES.

>> Renee: SASS SOMEONE WHO COVERED FRANKFORT FOR HOW MANY YEARS AL CROSS?

HOW DO YOU GRADE THE NEW GENERATION HOW THEY ARE FILLING THAT GAP AND TAKEN OVER AND COVERING THE STATE HOUSE?

>> THEY HAVE A WAY TO GO.

BUT THERE IS A REAL ENERGY THERE.

AND I THINK THEY REALLY SEE THEMSELVES WITH THE SAME KIND OF PUBLIC SERVICE MISSION THAT THOSE OTHERS WHO WORKED FOR THE COMMERCIAL NEWSPAPERS DID.

AND THE COMMERCIAL BROADCAST STATIONS.

WE'RE THERE NOT SO MUCH TO SERVE OUR PAY MASTERS BUT THE PUBLIC.

WHICH HAS AN ABIDING INTEREST AND WE HOPE IN WHAT GOES ON IN FRANKFORT.

AND THE FRANKFORT PRESS CORPS HAS BEEN MORE THAN DES ESTIMATED.

DECIMATED.

IT'S BEEN REDUCED TO ONE FIFTH OF ITS SIZE WHEN IT COMES TO LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS.

YEARS AGO WHEN I WAS POLITICAL WRITER AT THE COURIER JOURNAL WE HAD A PICTURE TAKING AT THE END OF THE SESSION WITH EVERYBODY IN THE PRESS CORPS AND THERE WOULD BE 30 PEOPLE IN THE PICTURE.

AND I THINK THIS LAST YEAR WE HAD ABOUT SIX.

>> Renee: I WANTED TO GO TO JENNIFER BROWN BUT I THINK WE'RE HAVING AN ISSUE WITH SKYPE BECAUSE OF THE WEATHER.

I WILL BRING YOU IN MICHAEL FOR YOU TO TALK ABOUT FIRST AMENDMENT ISSUES.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE MEDIA LANDSCAPE WHAT DOES THIS PRESENT FOR YOU AND WHAT ARE YOU CONCERNED ABOUT YOU SEE HOW THINGS ARE CHANGING WITH PRINT JOURNALISM.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME IT IS A PLEASURE TO BE HERE WITH FOLKS I'VE HAD THE PLEASURE TO WORK WITH AND THEIR PAPERS OVER THE YEARS.

OUR RULE AS ATTORNEYS WHO SUPPORT A LOT OF THE MEDIA WE DO REPRESENT MY FRIEND THE KENTUCKY PRESS ASSOCIATION WE REPRESENT THE PRINT PAPERS ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH.

AS WELL AS SOME OF THE DIGITAL PUBLICATIONS RADIO AND TV STATIONS.

WE GET TO SEE A WIDE CROSS-SECTION OF THE ISSUES THE PAPERS ARE FACING.

WE PLAY BOTH OFFENSE AND DEFENSE.

WE HELP OUR CLIENTS GO AFTER PUBLIC RECORDS, POLICE OPEN MEETINGS VIOLATIONS, GENERAL GOOD GOVERNANCE TRANSPARENCY ISSUES ARE THE BREAD AND BUTTER OF WHAT WE DO.

AND WE ALSO PLAY DEFENSE.

WE WORK ON DEFAMATION CASES WHEN THEY ARE BROUGHT.

PEOPLE WHO ARE UPSET ABOUT COVERAGE AND LITIGATING THOSE.

I'D SAY THE CHANGING LANDSCAPE THAT EVERYONE HERE HAS DESCRIBED HAS HAD A PROFOUND EFFECT IN OUR SMALLER NEWSPAPER CLIENTS.

THEY HAVE A HARD TIME ONE COMING UP WITH THE RESOURCES TO GO AND FIGHT A FIGHT AGAINST AN AGENCY WHO DOESN'T WANT TO TURNOVER RECORDS.

AND UNFORTUNATELY MORE AND MORE EVERYDAY I'M SEEING AGENCIES JUST ISSUING PRETTY BLATANTLY ILLEGAL DENIALS OF RECORDS BECAUSE THEY ASSUME NO ONE IS GOING TO CALL THEM ON IT.

AND THAT IS UNFORTUNATELY A CONSEQUENCE OF THE SHRINKING MEDIA BUDGETS AND THE SHRINKING MEDIA LANDSCAPE IS REPEAT VIOLATORS WHO JUST ASSUME THEY WILL GET AWAY WITH IT.

AND IT'S QUITE UNFORTUNATE.

>> Renee: RICK, CHIME IN ON THAT ABOUT THE ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS AND THE ATTEMPTS YOU HAVE FOUGHT IN RECENT LEGISLATIVE SESSIONS?

>> WE JUST HAD A VERY CHILLING LEGISLATIVE SESSION THAT ENDED EARLIER THIS YEAR WHERE THERE WAS VERY BLATANT ATTACKS ON KENTUCKY'S OPEN RECORDS ACT.

A PIECE OF LEGISLATION THAT OUR FRIEND AND COLLEAGUE JOHN FLEISCHMANN HELPED CRAFT.

AND I THINK THERE WERE A LOT OF SLEEPLESS NIGHTS FOR JUSH LISTS IN KENTUCKY BECAUSE WE KNOW THE GREAT JOURNALISM THAT HAS BEEN DONE IN THE PAST FIVE DECADES WAS AT RISK IN THE FUTURE.

AN ATTEMPT TO MAKE IT VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE TO OBTAIN SOME RECORDS.

AND THE THING THAT CONCERNED ME THE MOST IS THAT THIS WAS A BIPARTISAN EFFORT.

WE'VE SEEN EFFORTS IN NORTH CAROLINA AND IN NEW JERSEY VERY RECENTLY, TO BASICALLY GUT THEIR OPEN RECORDS ACT.

WE DODGED A BULLET THIS SESSION.

BUT AS AN EDITOR THE THINGS THAT KEEPS ME UP AT NIGHT IS THAT FREE FLOW OF ACCESS TO PUBLIC RECORDS AND INFORMATION THAT THE TAXPAYERS, THE VOTERS, THE RESIDENTS, CONSTITUENTS IN KENTUCKY DESERVE TO HAVE.

IT'S THE PUBLIC'S WORK BEING DONE AND PAID FOR BY THE PUBLIC.

IT NEEDS TO REMAIN A PUBLIC DOCUMENT.

WE'VE SEEN GUYS, THE ATTEMPT TO SAY WELL, YOU'RE TRYING TO GET ACCESS TO MY PHONE AND IF WE'RE DOING PERSONAL BUSINESS I DON'T REALLY CARE ABOUT YOUR KID'S SOCCER SCHEDULE AND YOUR GROCERY LISTS 0 THE FLIRTY TEXT MESSAGES YOU SWAM SWAP WITH YOUR PARTNERS.

BUT IF YOU ARE DOING THE PUBLIC A BUSINESS ON A PERSONAL DEVICE, IT IS A PUBLIC RECORD.

AND SO I'M EXPECTING THERE TO BE FIREWORKS AGAIN THIS NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION.

>> IT WILL CONTINUE BECAUSE IT IS THE NATURE OF PUBLIC OFFICIALS TO WANT TO HIDE WHAT THEY DO.

TO PRACTICE THEIR BUSINESS IN SECRET.

THAT'S BEEN TRUE SINCE WE'VE HAD GOVERNMENTS.

BUT HERE WE HAVE A GOVERNMENT THAT'S FOUNDED ON CERTAIN PRINCIPLES OF TRANSPARENCY.

WE HAVE A FIRST AMENDMENT IN THE CONSTITUTION.

AND THAT'S BEEN BROADLY INTERPRETED TO MEAN THE PUBLIC HAS A RIGHT TO KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON.

AND I WONDER IF THE LEGISLATURE ISN'T MORE PROBLEMATIC THAN IT USED TO BE, BECAUSE THERE ARE FEWER REPORTERS IN FRANKFORT.

I WOULD VENTURE TO YOU THAT ABOUT HALF OF THE LEGISLATORS IN FRANKFORT BECAUSE MANY OF THEM ARE NEW, DON'T REALLY HAVE A GOOD WORKING RELATIONSHIP WITH A REPORTER.

AND IT TAKES THAT, IT TAKES AN APPRECIATION OF THE JOB THAT JOURNALISTS DO IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND WHY LEGISLATION LIKE THAT WAS PROPOSED, IS REALLY DAMAGING TO THE PUBLIC'S RIGHT TO KNOW AND TO THE PUBLIC INTEREST, PERIOD.

>> I ADD-ON, ONE MORE THING TO THROW IN THERE IS THE WAY PEOPLE GET THEIR NEWS THESE DAYS IN PLATFORMS THAT ARE UNMEDIATED BY NEWSPAPERS AND EDITORS, MEANS THAT THERE ARE A NUMBER OF POLITICIANS OUT THERE WHO RELISH THE THOUGHT OF PICKING A FIGHT WITH THE MEDIA IN A WAY THAT PROBABLY EVEN WHEN I STARTED WORKING WITH JOHN FLEISCHMANN DOING THIS WORK, MORE THAN A DECADE AGO, YOU KNOW, IT WAS STILL TAKEN MORE SERIOUSLY IN THE HALLS OF THE CAPITOL WHEN THE MEDIA THOUGHT ABOUT SOMETHING AND IF THE PRESS ASSOCIATION WAS STRONGLY OPPOSED TO SOMETHING THAT MEANS SOMETHING DIFFERENT TODAY.

A LOT OF PEOPLE LOVE TO WEAR THE BADGE OF I'M TAKING ON THE FAKE NEWS MEDIA.

>> AND YOU HAVE FEWER SMALL TOWN PUBLISHERS WHO KNOW THE LOCAL LEGISLATORS.

THE PUBLISHERS IN THE OLD DAYS WERE INDEPENDENT THEY HAD A PIECE OF THE ACTION OR THEY WERE THE OWNER.

TODAY, WE DON'T HAVE THAT.

ONE-THIRD OF THE NEWSPAPERS IN KENTUCKY ARE OWNED BY ONE CHAIN OUT OF PADUCAH.

AND THERE IS REALLY NO FIRST CLASS CRUSADING SMALL TOWN DAILY PUBLISHER LEFT IN KENTUCKY.

I HATE TO SAY THAT.

BUT IT'S TRUE.

>> Renee: I WANT TO BRING IN JENNIFER BROWN WHO IS THE COFOUNDER AND EDITOR AND PUBLISHER WE HOPE WE CAN HEAR HER.

WE HAD A GLITCH CAN YOU HEAR US OKAY?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

LOUD AND CLEAR.

>> Renee: YOU HAVE BEEN ABLE TO HEAR THE CONVERSATION.

CHIME IN AND TELEPHONINGS ABOUT THE HOPTOWN CHRONICLE AND YOUR BUSINESS MODEL.

>> SO THE BUSINESS MODEL IS REALLY IMPORTANT TO WHAT WE DO.

Y'ALL STARTED THE CONVERSATION TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRINT AND DIGITAL.

AND I WAS A PRINT JOURNALIST FOR 30 YEARS AND NOW I'VE BEEN A DIGITAL JOURNALIST FOR FIVE YEARS.

BUT THE REAL IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE IS THE FACT THAT WE ARE A NONPROFIT.

AND IT REALLY PUTS A FINE POINT ON THE FACT THAT WE PRACTICE PUBLIC SERVICE JOURNALISM.

WE MAKE DECISIONS TO COVER STORIES OFTEN THAT OTHERS ARE NOT COVERING.

AND WHAT WE DON'T COVER SOMETIMES IS AS IMPORTANT AS WHAT WE DO COVER.

I THINK THAT YOU KNOW, THERE'S ROOM FOR MANY MORE HOPTOWN CHRONICLES IN KENTUCKY.

AND I HOPE TO SEE THAT HAPPEN IN THE NEXT FIVE TO 10 YEARS.

WE ARE TRYING TO LEVERAGE OUR INSTITUTIONAL KNOWLEDGE OF THE COMMUNITY FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE COMMUNITY.

AND THERE ARE MANY OTHERS LIKE ME WHO HAVE SPENT A LONGTIME IN THEIR TOWN AS A REPORTER OR LIBRARIAN OR SOME OTHER JOB THAT HELPS THEM UNDERSTAND HOW THE PLACE OPERATES AND WHAT THE HISTORY IS.

SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO DOWN HERE.

WE ARE VERY SMALL BUT I THINK WE HAVE A STRONG ENGAGEMENT WITH THE COMMUNITY.

>> Renee: THANK YOU, JENIFER.

WE KNOW YOU ARE HAVING A LITTLE BIT OF WEATHER-RELATED INTERFERENCE BUT WE HEARD YOU LOUD AND CLEAR.

JAMIE, CHIME IN WHAT JENIFER HAD TO SAY?

>> WELL, I THINK THAT'S LARGELY THE MISSION OF THE KENTUCKY LANTERN AS WELL.

PUBLIC SERVICE JOURNALISM IS -- IT'S SOMETHING TO ASPIRE TO.

AND I THINK THAT AS AL SAID, JOURNALISM IS A DISCIPLINE AND IT IS A DIFFERENT FROM WHAT PEOPLE ARE SEEING ON THEIR SOCIAL MEDIA AND WE WANT TO BRING AS MANY VOICES AS POSSIBLE ON TO -- INTO OUR STORIES, I WAS GOING TO SAY ON TO OUR PAGES BUT WE ARE ALL DIGITAL, TOO.

I THINK THAT THAT KIND OF DISCOURSE AND ENGAGEMENT IS HAS BEEN VERY REWARDING FOR US.

THE NUMBER OUR READER NUMBERS WOULD NOT SATISFY A HEDGE FUND OWNER.

WE WOULDN'T PRODUCE THE MARGINS THAT THE COMPANIES THAT OUR NEWSPAPERS NOW WANT.

BUT JUST THE RESPONSE WE'VE GOTTEN FROM OUR READERS, FROM KENTUCKIANS FROM LAWMAKERS FROM ELECTED OFFICIALS, CONVINCES ME THAT THERE IS A REAL HUNGER FOR THAT KIND OF REPORTING THAT KIND OF STORYTELLING IN KENTUCKY.

AND I'M SURE IN OTHER PLACES AND I THINK IT WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL IF THERE COULD BE A PROLIFERATION OF HOPTOWN CHRONICLES AROUND THE STATE.

BECAUSE THERE ARE LOTS OF PEOPLE WHO HAVE THAT KNOWLEDGE THAT HISTORICAL INSIGHT AND PERSPECTIVE IN KENTUCKY WHO COULD ADD SO MUCH WHAT HAS BECOME A KIND OF YOU KNOW, JUST A REALLY KIND OF I DON'T WANT TO SOUND LIKE GOVERNOR TEAM COMPANY ANDY BESHEAR WITH THE KUMBAYA STUFF BUT IT IS A VERY POLARIZED UNFRIENDLY AND HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT OUT THERE A LOT.

LIKE EVERYBODY'S READY TO STAKE OUT THEIR POSITION WITH THEIR TEAM.

>> RIGHT.

TOO MANY PEOPLE THINK THAT MOST JOURNALISTS HAVE SOME AXE TO GRIND.

SOME POLITICAL AGENDA, PERSONAL AGENDA, IDEOLOGICAL AGENDA.

YES THERE ARE SOME OUT THERE WHO DO.

AND THEY NEED TO BE CALLED OUT FOR WHAT THEY DO LARGELY THE JOURNALISTS WHO DO PUBLIC AFFAIRS JOURNALISM IN THIS STATE OPERATE WITHOUT ANY POLITICAL OR IDEOLOGICAL AGENDA.

THEY ARE OUT TO SERVE THE PUBLIC.

AND I THINK THEY ARE ULTIMATELY ANSWERABLE TO THE PUBLIC AND THEY KEEP THAT PUBLIC SERVICE ELEMENT IN MIND.

>> Renee: PEOPLE CONFLATE THE EDITORIAL PAGE WITH WHAT REPORTERS DO.

DO YOU THINK THAT IS PART OF IT?

>> THAT IS A LONG-TERM ARGUMENT ABOUT WHETHER NEWSPAPERS OUGHT TO BE EDITORIAL PAGES.

I THINK ANY GOOD NEWSPAPER HAS EDITORIAL PAGE, BECAUSE ONLY A NEWSPAPER BILLS DEEPLY AND BROADLY INTO A COMMUNITY LIKE NOTHING ELSE.

AND IT HAS THE INFORMATION ON WHICH TO BASE REASONED OPINIONS.

AND I THINK PEOPLE LOOK FOR LEADERSHIP IN A COMMUNITY.

I LIKE TO SAY THAT A GOOD NEWSPAPER OR ANY GOOD NEWS OUTLET IS THE IB THROUGH THE INFRASTRUCTURE IT RUNS THROUGH THE MIDDLE AND EVERYTHING ELSE ATTACHES TO IT.

AND WHEN IT STARTS WEAKENING THEN THE CIVIC ENTERPRISE WEAKENS.

>> Renee: RICK, I WANT TO COME TO YOU.

YOU MENTIONED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT HOW YOU ALL ARE CHANGING, YOU DID NOT SAY THIS, THAT HOME DELIVERY WILL BE DIFFERENT THREE DAYS A WEEK, VERSUS WHAT IT IS NOW COME AUGUST 5.

TELL US WHY YOU MADE THAT DECISION?

AND YOU ARE NOT ALONE?

>> WE'RE SEEING IT ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND THOSE COMPANIES PERHAPS SOME IN KENTUCKY THAT MIGHT NOT BE DOING IT WILL FOLLOW SUIT.

I'VE ALWAYS BELIEVED AS A LONGTIME JOURNALIST YOU NEVER ABANDON AN AUDIENCE BEFORE IT ABANDONS YOU.

IT IS CLEAR THERE ARE LONG-TERM BELIEVERS IN PAPER AND PART OF THEIR DAILY LIFE IT IS A STAPLE THEY'VE HAD FOR GENERATIONS.

GENERATIONS AND DECADES OF LONG TIME SUBSCRIBERS TO THE HERALD LEADER BUT THERE ARE FEWER AND FEWERRER.

AND EVEN THOUGH WHO ARE SUBSCRIBERS OF THE NEWSPAPER MANY OF THEM THAT WANT TO READ THEIR NEWS THEIR MORNING CONTENT ON DIFFERENT DEVICES NOT JUST ALWAYS IN THE NEWSPAPER BUT NEWSLETTERS OR DAILY EDITION THAT COMES OUT.

AND SO WE'RE LOOKING CLOSELY AT THE NOTION THAT GREAT CONTENT IS GREAT CONTENT WHATEVER PLATFORM IT'S DELIVERED UPON.

OUR COMPANY BELIEVES WHOLEHEARTEDLY IT'S NOT JUST THE FUTURE IT'S THE HERE AND NOW IT'S IN THE DIGITAL SPACE.

YEAH, WE MADE A TOUGH DECISION AS IT RELATES TO THREE DAYS A WEEK.

WEDNESDAY, FRIDAY AND SUNDAY ALL DELIVERED IN THE POST OFFICE.

USPS.

FOR SUNDAY NEWSPAPER WILL COME ON SATURDAYS.

BUT THE THING THAT YOU GUYS ARE SAYING I TOTALLY AGREE WE'RE 24/7 CONTENT MACHINE.

OUR DAY DOESN'T END WHEN THE PRINT DEADLINE IS HERE.

IT DOESN'T END WHENEVER IT'S DELIVERED.

WE ARE CONSTANTLY SEEKING NEWS AND FINDING NEWS AND PLACING NEWS AS IT HAPPENS.

>> AND YOUR AUDIENCE UNLIKE MOST PEOPLE IN YOUR POSITION, IS PRIMARILY DIGITAL NOW.

>> IT IS.

IT'S BECOME SO.

EVEN SOME OF THE FOLKS WHO HAVE BEEN DIEHARD MORNING NEWSPAPER FOLKS HAVE SAID TO US, YEAH, I STILL GET IT BECAUSE I LIKE TO DO THE CROSSWORD PUZZLES.

BUT I START MY MORNING READING IT DIGITALLY IN A NEWSLETTER OR THE E EDITION.

SO WE ARE CHALLENGED IN WAYS THAT EVEN JUST FIVE YEARS AGO, THREE YEARS AGO, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE SAME KIND OF CHALLENGES.

IT'S ECONOMIC FOR CERTAIN.

WE KNOW WHAT BIG TECH HAS DONE TO ALL OF US IN THE FOR-PROFIT MEDIA SIDE.

BUT I WOULD ARGUE ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT HAS HAPPENED WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT LEGISLATORS AND THE WAY WHICH THEY REACT TO MEDIA NOT TO BE POLITICAL, I'M BEING OBJECTIVE WHEN I SAY THERE ARE MANY POLITICIANS THAT ARE NOW EMBOLDENED AND CONSIDERED A BADGE OF HONOR TO ATTACK THE MEDIA.

AND I CAN UNDERSTAND IN SOME WAYS THIS FRACTURED ENVIRONMENT AT THE NATIONAL LEVEL BETWEEN FOX AND MSNBC IN PARTICULAR.

I'VE BELIEVED THAT A LOCAL HOMETOWN MEDIA OUTLET NEEDS TO SERVE THE NEEDS OF THE LOCAL HOMETOWN.

I TOTALLY AGREE.

I DON'T BELIEVE A COMMUNITY CAN GROW WITHOUT THE STRENGTH OF A GOOD MEDIA SITE AND TRADITIONALLY THAT HAS BEEN NEWSPAPERS.

AND GREAT JOURNAL IS NOT CONFINED TO TRADITIONAL MEANS OF RECEIVING THE NEWSPAPER.

BUT WE ALL HAVE TO BE CONVICTED TO THE FACT THAT GREAT JOURNALISM HAS TO HAPPEN NO MATTER THE CHALLENGES.

>> EVERY COMMUNITY NEEDS A TRUSTED SOURCE OF INFORMATION THAT IS BROADLY RECEIVED.

AND A PLACE THAT ACTS AS A FORUM A MEETING PLACE FOR PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT IDEAS TO DEBATE ISSUES.

AND GOOD NEWSPAPERS IN THE STATE ARE STILL DOING THAT.

>> Renee: I DID WANT TO ASK YOU ABOUT THE THE HERALD LEADER MAY HAVE WITH GETTING NOTIFICATIONS OUT ALL THE TIME, IT'S 24/7 DOES THE KENTUCKY LANTERN WORK IN THAT SAME FACE PACED DELIVERABLE?

>> WELL, WE'RE POSTING STUFF EVERY HOUR OF THE DAY AND IT FEELS LIKE EVERY HOUR OF THE NIGHT, TOO.

NO, WE DON'T ATTEMPT TO EMULATE WHAT A DAILY NEWSPAPER DOES BECAUSE WE DON'T COVER -- AS A RULE WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE COVERING A BIG PILE UPS ON THE INTERSTATE.

>> Renee: THE BREAKING NEWS KINDS OF THINGS.

>> WE DO TRY VERY HARD TO FIND STORIES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH THE INTERACTION BETWEEN PEOPLE AND THEIR GOVERNMENTS.

>> Renee: SAME QUESTION TO YOU JENIFER.

TALKING ABOUT TRYING TO KEEP UP WITH A LOT OF THE NEWS THAT BREAKS BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT THE HOPTOWN CHRONICLE IS DOING?

>> NO, IT'S NOT.

I THINK OUR GREATEST TOOL IS OUR DAILY NEWSLETTER.

THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IF I DON'T GET IT OUT AT A TIME WHEN PEOPLE ARE EXPECTING IT, I WILL HEAR FROM SOMEBODY.

AND WE HAVE A HIGH RATE OF PEOPLE OPENING OUR NEWSLETTERS AND I HEAR FROM PEOPLE WHO E-MAIL ME BACK.

I SEE PEOPLE IN TOWN.

I SEE PEOPLE IN THE STORE.

TAXES' -- I NEVER IMAGINED THAT A NEWSLETTER CAN BE THAT POWERFUL BUT IT IS FOR HOPTOWN CHRONICLE.

>> Renee: AND STAFFING.

IS THAT A CHALLENGE FOR YOU, RICK GREEN?

AND THE CHANGING DYNAMICS OF DOING BUSINESS IN THE NEWSPAPER INDUSTRY?

>> THE ONLY CONSTANT IN OUR BUSINESS IS CHANGE AND CHALLENGE AAND THAT LEWDS THE STAFFING LEVEL.

I'M PROUD THAT I CAME BACK TO KENTUCKY I WAS AT THE COURIER JOURNAL AND LEFT FOR CALIFORNIA AND CAME BACK BECAUSE I'M DRAWN TO THIS BEAUTIFUL STATE AND THE GREAT JOURNALISM THAT IS THERE.

STAFFING LEVELS AT THE HERALD LEADER HAVE NOT SHRUNK SINCE THE BEGINNING OF COVID.

THE COMPANY MADE A CONSCIOUS DECISION TO NOT TO FURLOUGHS OR LAYOFFS OR ANYTHING AND WE'VE HELD TRUE TO THAT.

I WISH THERE WERE MORE HORSES IN THE BARN?

I DON'T KNOW ANY EDITOR THAT WOULD SAY OTHERWISE.

BUT WHAT I WILL TELL YOU AND AL TOUCHED UPON THE IN TERMS.

ECONOMICS OF GOOD JOURNALISM IT'S NOT THE ADVERTISERS THAT ARE NECESSARILY FOOTING THE BILL FOR MY NEWSROOM NOW.

IT'S LOYAL SUBSCRIBERS.

IT'S FOLKS THAT ARE DIGITAL SUBSCRIBERS, AND I'M ALSO IN THE FILL LAND TROPIC GAME I'M PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION TO FIND THE RIGHT PHILANTHROPIC SOURCES TO HELP OFFSET MY EXPENSES AND IDENTIFY CONTENT AREAS THAT KENTUCKIANS MIGHT CARE ABOUT THAT WE MIGHT NOT HAVE ENOUGH REPORTERS TO DO BUT IF I CAN FIND SOURCES TO OFFSET THAT EXPENSE I WILL DO IT.

>> Renee: IS THAT WORKING?

>> I WAS PLEASED.

WE LAUNCHED A CAMPAIGN RIGHT AROUND THANKSGIVING LAST YEAR.

I'M PLEASED WITH WE WERE ABLE TO PAY FOR AN INTERN THIS SUMMER WITH THAT.

AND WE ARE OTHER PLANS AS IT RELATES TO THE SPORTS COVERAGE PLAN IN FOOTBALL.

BUT I WILL TELL YOU, I GOT A ANONYMOUS CHECK WITH A VERY, VERY KIND LETTER FROM LOUISVILLE NEVER MET THE PERSON IT WAS ANONYMOUS IT WAS A $10,000 CHECK.

I'LL TAKE THAT EVERYDAY AND TWICE ON SUNDAYS.

BUT AS WE'RE ALL SAYING IS THAT WE HAVE TO HOLD-UP OUR END OF THE DEAL AND THAT IS FAIR AND FEARLESS JOURNALISM.

AND WE HAVE TO BE THAT DEPENDABLE SOURCE.

AND PARTICULARLY IN BREAKING NEWS, JAMIE YOU TALKED ABOUT THAT.

BUT IT USED TO BE AND MAYBE IT IS A DRIVEN PRIMARILY BY TELEVISION, THE BLEEDS IT LEADS AND THE URGENCY GOT TO GET IT FIRST.

IF I'M THE LAST GUY TO THAT BREAKING NEWS PARTY BUT I HAVE THE RIGHT STORY AND I'M ACCURATE I WILL TAKE THAT HANDS DOWN EVERYDAY.

I WOULD RATHER BE RIGHT THAN FIRST AND THAT COMES TO CREDIBILITY.

>> Renee: THERE WAS A RECENT PEW RESEARCH STUDY THAT SHOWED ALMOST A MAJORITY OF FOLKS DO APPRECIATE LOCAL JOURNALISM AND LOCAL NEWS BUT THEY DON'T NECESSARY VALUE IT ENOUGH TO WANT TO PAY FOR IT.

>> EXACTLY.

PEOPLE HAVE NOT READJUSTED TO THE FACT THAT ADVERTISERS ARE NO LONGER PAYING THE FREIGHT.

NEWSPAPERS USED TO BE A TRULY MASS MEDIUM FOR EVERYBODY.

THERE WAS SOMETHING IN THE NEWSPAPER FOR EVERYONE.

AND NOW, YOU CAN GET THAT KIND OF INFORMATION FOR FREE ON THE INTERNET.

CROSSWORDS ARE DIFFICULT.

BUT THAT'S AN EXCEPTION.

I THINK SOME LOCAL PUBLISHERS AND RESEARCH HAS SHOWN THIS HAVE DIFFICULTY ASKING THEIR AUDIENCES FOR MONEY.

THEY VIEW IT AS AN ADMISSION OF FAILURE.

IT IS NOT AN ADMISSION OF FAILURE.

IT IS A RECOGNITION THAT THE LANDSCAPE UNDER YOUR FEET HAS CHANGED AND IT'S TILTED IN A WAY THAT IS GOING TO TURN YOU OVER UNLESS YOU GET TO THE OTHER SIDE AND FUND YOUR NEWSPAPER PRIMARILY WITH REVENUE FROM THE AUDIENCE.

SUBSCRIPTIONS, SINGLE COPY, DONATIONS, EVENTS, HOWEVER YOU CAN DO IT.

>> I THINK PART OF THE SUCCESS OF STATE'S NEWSROOM AND FUNDRAISING IS THAT MANY FOUNDATIONS AND INDIVIDUALS NOW SEE A FAIR AND FEARLESS PRESS AS CRITICAL TO DEMOCRACY.

AND SO THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO CAN'T AFFORD TO SUBSCRIBE TO PUBLICATIONS.

BY SUPPORTING YOUR LOCAL NEWS, YOUR STATE NEWS, YOU ARE HELPING OTHERS HAVE ACCESS TO INFORMATION AND NEWS THAT PEOPLE NEED TO MAKE GOOD DECISIONS AS CITIZENS.

>> Renee: I WANT TO GET TO THE BIG D DEMOCRACY QUESTION THAT HOW CRITICAL IS JOURNALISM TO DEMOCRACY AND OPEN PRESS TO DEMOCRACY?

>> I DON'T THINK IT'S EVER BEEN MORE CRITICAL.

IN THE ENVIRONMENT WE ARE LIVING IN TODAY WHERE PEOPLE ARE CONTESTING THE BASIC FACTS AROUND ELECTIONS AND WHO WON THEM, HAVING THE TRUSTED LOCAL SOURCES LIKE AL WAS TALKING ABOUT, NOT JUST NATIONAL MEDIA OUTLETS THAT YOU CAN WRITE OFF AS BIASED TOWARDS ONE SIDE OTHER ANOTHER IS CRITICAL.

THE OTHER THING THAT PEOPLE LOSE SIGHT OF, IT'S THE WORK THAT IS DONE EVERYDAY IN NEWSROOMS ACROSS THE STATE TO HOLD LOCAL LEADERS ACCOUNTABLE AND TO WATCHDOG WHAT IS GOING ON AT CITY HALL OR THE FISCAL COURT OR WHEREVER IT IS THAT IMPORTANT DECISIONS AFFECTING PEOPLE'S LIVES ARE BEING MADE.

THAT IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT.

AND THAT TAKES RESOURCES AND IT TAKES PEOPLE THERE TO SHOW UP TO EVERY COUNCIL MEETING AND WATCH AND MAKE SURE THEY ARE FOLLOWING THE RULES AND THEY ARE NOT HANDING OUT BINS TO FRIENDS OF THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS.

YOU NEED PEOPLE THERE TO DO THAT.

AND IT GETS SO EASY TO FOCUS ON NATIONAL ELECTIONS AND NATIONAL TV NEWS AND THE NOISE THAT THAT CREATES.

BUT REALLY THE SMALL D DEMOCRACY WORK IS DONE IN EVERY LOCAL PAPER ACROSS THE COMMONWEALTH EVERYDAY.

AND WE HAVE THE PLEASURE OF THROUGH THE PRESS ASSOCIATION RUNNING A HOTLINE FOR JOURNALISTS ACROSS THE STATE.

WE GET CALLS EVERYDAY FROM EDITORS, FROM ONE SIDE OF THE STATE TO THE OTHER WITH QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AT CITY COUNCIL MEETING OR I WAS DENIED THESE RECORDS DOES IT LOOK RIGHT TO YOU?

AND I KNOW THERE ARE REPORTERS AND EDITORS ALL ACROSS THE STATE DOING THAT EVERYDAY.

AND THAT'S FOR MY MONEY SOME OF THE MOST REWARDING WORK WE GET TO DO BUT IT'S IMPORTANT.

>> THE DISAPPOINTING THING IS THAT SO FEW PEOPLE REALLY CARE ABOUT THE NEWS ANYMORE.

I THINK THOSE OF US IN THE NEWS BUSINESS AND JOURNALISM AND THEY ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS, IS TO THINK EVERYBODY CARES ABOUT THE NEWS.

NO, THEY DON'T.

WE HAVE NOW HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR NEWS.

AND I THINK PEOPLE OUGHT TO REALIZE THAT EVEN IF THEY DON'T CARE MUCH ABOUT GETTING THE NEWS, THEY NEED TO CARE ABOUT THE WATCHDOG FUNCTION.

THERE'S GOOD RESEARCH THAT SHOWS THAT WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE REPERTORIAL ATTENTION ON LOCAL GOVERNMENTS, YOU HAVE HIGHER TAXES, YOU HAVE MORE WASTEFUL SPENDING, PAY MORE FOR BOND ISSUES, FEWER PEOPLE RUN FOR OFFICE THERE ARE A LITANY ON THE REBUILD LOCAL NEWS COALITION WEBSITE.

EVEN IF YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE NEWS, THE NEWS CARES ABOUT YOU.

>> Renee: WHAT IS THE ROLE OF LOCAL JOURNALISTS TO HELP WITH NEWS LITERACY IN A COMMUNITY?

>> I THINK WE'VE DONE A BAD JOB OF SELLING OUR BRAND.

I THINK JOURNALISTS NEED TO ENGAGE THE PUBLIC AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY TO EXPLAIN WHAT JOURNALISM IS OR IS SUPPOSED TO BE.

THAT WE ARE INDEPENDENT.

THAT IS THE HALLMARK OF AMERICAN JOURNALISM.

INDEPENDENCE.

WE DON'T CARRY WATER FOR ANY PARTICULAR PARTY, PERSON, GROUP OR WHATEVER.

AND WE TRY TO BE AS FAIR AS WE CAN.

AND WE'RE HUMAN BEINGS SO WE FAIL.

BUT WE TRY TO DO THAT AND WE HOLD OURSELVES ACCOUNTABLE AND WE WANT OTHERS TO HOLD US ACCOUNTABLE.

I THINK EVERY NEWSPAPER EVERY NEWS SITE IN THIS COUNTRY OUGHT TO BASICALLY EXPLAIN THAT ON ITS PAGES, DIGITAL OR PRINT EVERYDAY.

BECAUSE AMERICANS HAVE A HARD TIME UNDERSTANDING WHAT THE HELL JOURNALISM IS ANYMORE.

>> Renee: ARE YOU DOING THAT, RICK?

>> WE ARE.

WE ARE DOING OUR VERY BEST TO DO THAT.

I WANT TO BUILD ON THAT.

THAT WE'VE BECOME A NATION OF ECO-CHAMBERS.

MY MOTHER GOT BLESS HER SOUL WAS A DIEHARD WATCHER OF "FOX NEWS".

AND SHE THOUGHT TUCKER CARLSON WAS THE BEST THING EVER AND TUCKER DESERVED TO BE ON MT.

RUSHMORE.

I HAVE A GOOD FRIEND WHO WATCHES ONLY MSNBC AND THINKS RACHEL MADDOW SHOULD BE ON MT.

RUSHMORE.

AND THE SCARY THING IS THEY ONLY LISTEN THEMSELVES.

THE LACK OF CIVILITY.

YOU TALK ABOUT THE DNA SHORT COMINGS IN THIS COUNTRY AND WE'RE SEE TO GO ON A DAY IN DAY OUT BASIS IN OUR NEWSROOMS.

IT'S THE LACK OF CIVILITY AND THE TRIBAL POLITICAL WARS THAT EXISTED THAT ARE JUST DEFINING US.

AND IT'S SO FUNNY WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT WHERE DO YOU FIND NEWS?

WELL, I GET MY NEWS ON FACEBOOK.

WHO DO YOU THINK IS POWERING FACEBOOK WITH GREAT LOCAL CONTENT?

JAMIE AND ME AND HOPTOWN.

>> AND WHAT ALGORITHM GAVE YOU WHATEVER NEWS YOU'VE GOT?

WE DON'T KNOW THEY ARE NOT TELLING.

>> IT IS A MUCH MORE COMPLEX ENVIRONMENT THAN IT EVER HAS BEEN.

YES IT COMES DOWN TO THE STAPLE MICHAEL DOES A GREAT JOB OF HELPING US DEFENDNA THAT FIRST AMENDMENT IT'S HIGH QUALITY BIG J JOURNALISM THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT.

MY, GOD IT'S JUST BECOME SO MORE CHALLENGING ON SO MANY LEVELS.

BECAUSE THE THINGS THEY ARE NOT TEACHING IN JOURNALISM SCHOOL LIKE HOW TO STAND IN FRONT OF A PHILANTHROPIC GROUP AND ASK FOR DOLLARS I CAN DEFEND MY NEWSROOM AND TALK ABOUT THE BODY OF WORK AND SAY IT WITH PRIDE AND ADMIRATION BUT I NEED TO BE ABLE TO TAKE THAT CONVICTION IN FRONT OF A LARGE PHILANTHROPIC NONPROFIT TO SAY PLEASE HELP ME CONTINUE MY MISSION BY SUPPORTING EXPANSION OF MY STAFF.

IF YOU CANNOT DO THAT IN 2024 YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO BE IN THIS BUSINESS.

>> Renee: JENIFER ARE YOU DOING THAT?

>> ARE YOU MAKING THOSE SPEECHES TO THOSE IN YOUR COMMUNITY TO SUPPORT YOU PHILANTHROPICLY?

>> YES, WE ARE.

AND YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT YOU'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IN TERMS OF WHAT KIND OF NEWS PEOPLE CONSUME, I HEAR PEOPLE SAY EVERYDAY IT'S ALL BIAS SO I'VE JUST GIVEN UP.

AND IF YOU ASK THEM WHERE DO THEY GET THEIR NEWS IF THEY SAY THAT QUITE OFTEN THEY MEAN CABLE TELEVISION.

AND WHEN YOU POINT OUT SOME SOURCES THAT THEY COULD USE EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT WILLING TO PAY FOR IT, KENTUCKY LANTERN IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE IN HOPKINSVILLE KENTUCKY BECAUSE WE ARE IN A WEIRD POSITION WHERE FOLKS DON'T KNOW AS MUCH ABOUT STATE GOVERNMENT AS THEY SHOULD.

SOMETIMES I TELL PEOPLE THAT NATIONAL IS THE STATE CAPITAL OF WESTERN KENTUCKY THAT IS WHERE OUR NEWS COMES FROM.

THERE ARE MANY WAYS TO GET GOOD, CREDIBLE NEWS.

AND SOMETIMES I JUST THINK AREN'T WILLING TO SPEND THE TIME TO READ A STORY OR GO FIND A GOOD SOURCE AS OPPOSED TO JUST SITTING IN FRONT OF THE TELEVISION IN THE EVENING AND WATCHING FOX AND MSNBC.

>> UNFORTUNATELY, I THINK MOST AMERICANS WOULD RATHER BE ENTERTAINED THAN INFORMED.

>> Renee: THAT IS WHY YOU HAVE INFO TAN.

A BLEND OF THOSE OF THOSE.

>> IN JOURNALISM WE HAVE KNOWN YOU NEED TO PUT SIZZLE WITH THE STEAK TO HOPE PEOPLE READ IT BUT THE SIZZLE OVERCOMES EVERYTHING.

>> IT'S THE PERSONALITIES OF THINGS.

IT'S BEING ABLE TO SHARE THE ANALYSIS AND THEIR PERSONAL FEELINGS AND CONVICTIONS AS OPPOSED TO YOU SEE ON PBS HERE IS THE STORIES, HERE IS WHAT ONE SIDE SAYS AND THE OTHER SIDE SAYS YOU DECIDE AS OPPOSED TO SOMEBODY BARKING LIKE A CIRCUS.

SHOW MEN.

>> PEOPLE WANT THEIR EXISTING BELIEFS CONFIRMED.

THEY ARE OFTEN LOOKING NOT FOR INFORMATION BUT CONFIRMATION.

>> DON'T CONFUSE ME WITH THE COMPLEXITIES.

>> PEOPLE ARE VERY SUBJECT THESE DAYS TO SIMPLE ANSWERS TO COMPLEX PROBLEMS.

>> Renee: SO HOW DO YOU GET PEOPLE TO WANT TO BE MORE INFORMED AND TO BE AN INFORMED CITIZEN?

>> HOW DO YOU PENETRATE THE ECOCHAMBER?

I THINK THAT IS THE CHALLENGE FOR ALL OF US.

AND I THINK THIS ELECTION THIS YEAR IS GOING TO BE A TEST AND A MEASURE OF HOW COMPLETELY OVERTAKEN WE'VE BEEN BY THOSE ECOCHAMBERS, CAN PEOPLE MOVE AWAY FROM THEIR TRIBAL FEELINGS AND.

>> I'M GLAD THAT THE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE IS GOING TO BE HELD IN 11 DAYS.

BECAUSE WE NEED TO GET OUT OF THIS DOOM LOOP THAT WE'RE IN.

OF EVERYBODY JUST THROWING OPINIONS BACK AND FORTH TO SEE THE TWO CANDIDATES THERE, DEBATING FACTS AT LEAST WE HOPE THERE WILL BE MORE FACTS THAN OPINION.

AND HAVING GOOD ANALYSIS AFTER THE DEBATE IS VERY IMPORTANT TO CHANGE THE NATURE OF THIS CONVERSATION.

>> Renee: HOW ARE YOU GOING TO COVER THE ELECTION DIFFERENTLY THIS TIME YOU WEREN'T EDITOR OF THE HERALD LEADER IN 2020.

BUT HOW WOULD YOU DO IT DIFFERENTLY?

AND WHAT PIECE DO YOU THINK WAS MISSING ACROSS THE LANDSCAPE THAT NOW YOU HAVE TO ZERO IN ON?

>> IT'S IRONIC TO BE BACK IN A STATE WHERE 601 WHEN THE POLLS CLOSED THE WINNER IS ANNOUNCED AND HE IS WEARING RED.

THAT IS ONE THING.

AND TO ME IT'S MORE ABOUT THE LOCAL ELECTIONS IT IS A FRANKFORT AND BEING ABLE TO DIG INTO THE THINGS THAT "THE NEW YORK TIMES" AND "CNN" AND FOX WON'T BE COVERING.

IT'S MORE ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS AT THE STATE CAPITOL.

WHAT IS THE EMERGENCE OF ANDY BESHEAR LOOK LIKE?

HE IS HEADED TO IOWA.

A GUY WHO WORKED AS EDITOR AND PUBLISHER AND I KNOW THE DES MOINES IS STAGING GROUND FOR FUTURE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES.

TRYING TO TELL THE NATIONAL STORY THROUGH THE PRISSISM WHAT IT MEANS TO KENTUCKIANS THAT IS SOMETHING THAT NO OTHER MEDIA SITES CAN DO ON THE NATIONAL LEVEL HERE IS WHO IT MEANS FOR KENTUCKY.

AND SO EXPLAINING IT, ANALYZING IT AND MAKING IT AS PERSONAL AS POSSIBLE IS ALL OF OUR MISSION.

>> Renee: AND HEARING FROM THE VOTERS THEMSELVES?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

>> Renee: HOW DOES THAT COVERAGE LOOK DIFFERENT ABOUT GETTING THE PULSE OF WHAT THE AVERAGE KENTUCKIAN IS THINKING?

>> IT'S GOING OUT AND TALKING TO PEOPLE.

WE'RE GETTING READY TO LAUNCH A SUMMER AND FALL KIND OF A MOVABLE NEWSROOM WHERE WE'RE GOING TO DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE COMMUNITY TO INTERACT AND ENGAGE.

YOU KNOW, IT'S BEEN THERE IS A MOMENT OF CANDOR AND HONESTY IT'S BEEN A LITTLE DISHEARTENING FOR A MEDIA ORGANIZATION THAT HAS BEEN HERE FOR 154 YEARS FOR THERE TO BE LITTLE UNDERSTANDING AS TO WHAT WE DO OR WHERE WE ARE.

THOSE ARE ISSUES THAT PRECEDED ME THAT WE'RE ALL STRUGGLING WITH.

I THINK IT'S INCUMBENT UPON ME AND OUR LEADERSHIP TEAM AND OUR STAFF TO BE OUT THERE.

TO BE SEEN AND TO INTERACT AND TO REALLY TRULY TELL PEOPLE I CARE ABOUT YOUR OPINIONS.

I WANT TO KNOW WHAT ARE THE ISSUES KEEPING YOU UP AT NIGHT WHAT.

IS YOUR FAMILY TALKING ABOUT AROUND THE TABLE.

WHAT DOES IT LOOK LIKE WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO BED AT NIGHT AND KEEPING YOU AWAKE.

WE HAVE TO EXPLAIN THAT AND OUR COVERAGE HAS TO REFLECT THOSE ISSUES.

YOU KNOW, THE BEAUTY AND THE CURSE WHERE WE ARE RIGHT NOW AND JAMIE YOU ARE PROBABLY ATTUNED TO THIS AS I AM WE HAVE ANALYTICS THAT CAN TELL YOU HOW MUCH TIME PEOPLE ARE SPENDING WITH OUR STORIES, HOW MUCH TIME THEY SPEND ON STORIES.

>> Renee: ARE THEY READING THE WHOLE STORY?

>> OH, MY GOD, NO.

THERE ARE SOME STORIES AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT BIG J I'VE SEEN GREAT ENGAGEMENT.

TWO-AND-A-HALF THREE MINUTES OF TIME WITH OUR MORE POWERFUL WORK.

TOO OFTEN PEOPLE SEE THE HEADLINE AND READ TWO OR THREE GRAPHS AND MOVE ON TO THE NEXT THING AND THEY ARE READING.

AND THAT IS IMPORTANT.

>> Renee: IS IT PART OF YOUR PLAN TO ENGAGE YOUR REPORTERS MORE ON SOCIAL MEDIA SO THAT THEY ARE HAVING THOSE TWO-WAY CONVERSATIONS WITH THOSE READERS?

>> IT'S TWO-FOLD.

I THINK OUR TEAM DOES A GOOD JOB OF BEING OUT THERE ON SOCIAL MEDIA.

AND FROM X FORMERLY TWITTER AND ON INSTAGRAM AND PLACES WE GO WHERE THE READERS ARE.

BUT ONE OF THE MISSIONS THAT I HAVE IS WE'RE MORE THAN A NEWSPAPER.

RIGHT IN THE WE'VE BEEN HERE FOR 154 YEARS.

WE ARE YOUR NEIGHBORS.

OUR KIDS GO TO YOUR SCHOOLS.

I GO GROCERY SHOPPING AT THE KROGER ON RICHMOND ROAD AND I SEE PEOPLE THAT READ OUR WEBSITE.

WE GO TO YOUR HOUSES OF WORSHIP WE ARE PART OF THE COMMUNITY.

TOO EASY TO PAINT OUR HOMETOWN NEWSPAPER AS OH, YOU'RE PART OF THE MEDIA.

THE ENEMY OF THE PEOPLE AND THAT CRAZY.

NO WE'RE NOT.

WE CARE ABOUT THE STATE AND OUR HOMETOWN WE CARE ABOUT THE COMMUNITIES THAT DEFINE THE RICHNESS OF THE COMMONWEALTH.

AND YOU KNOW WHAT?

WE'RE GOING TO TELL GOOD STORIES AND TRY TO KEEP THE READERS AND CONSTITUENTS AND VOTERS FIRST AND FOREMOST.

>> Renee: WHAT DOES IT LOOK FOR YOU JAMIE AS WE APPROACH THE GENERAL ELECTION?

>> I THINK WE DO WANT TO WE ARE A PART OF A NATIONAL NEWS ORGANIZATION.

AND THERE IS A WEBSITE CALLED THE NEWS OF THE STATE WHICH COMPILES ALL OUR WORK.

SO WE WANT TO TELL KENTUCKY'S STORY TO A NATIONAL AUDIENCE.

SO A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH TALKING TO PEOPLE.

BUT I THINK WE HAVE SOME INTERESTING RACES.

I THINK THAT THE AMENDMENT TO THE.

>> Renee: SCHOOL CHOICE AMENDMENT.

>> I WOULDN'T CALL IT CHOICE I CALL IT PUBLIC MONEY FOR NONPUBLIC SCHOOLS WE ARE ONE OF FIVE STATES THAT DON'T HAVE CHAFORTER SCHOOLS OR VOUCHERS AND WHAT WILL THE RACE BE LIKE IN KENTUCKY.

WILL THE BILLIONAIRES WHO SUPPORT CHARTER SCHOOLS AND VOUCHERS PUT THEIR MONEY HERE?

OR DO THEY NEED TO SAVE IT FOR A NATIONAL RACE?

I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING WE WILL BE WATCHING.

AND WE KNOW WE HAVE A JUDICIAL RACE A SUPREME COURT RACE AND LOTS AND LOTS OF LOCAL RACES.

AND LOTS AND LOTS OF LEGISLATIVE RACES.

AND SORT OF ONE OF THE PRINCIPLES OF STATE'S NEWSROOM IS THAT THE LEVEL OF GOVERNMENT THAT REALLY AFFECTS PEOPLE MOST DIRECTLY IT'S NOT IN DC IT'S IN STATE CAPITOLS LIKE THE CONGRESS DOESN'T DECIDE YOUR VOTING HOURS OR WHAT YOUR SCHOOLS ARE GOING TO BE LIKE, REALLY.

SO TO TELL THE STORY OF THE STATE, TELLS THE STORY OF THE NATION AND THAT IS PART OF WHAT WE WANT TO DO AND WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT KENTUCKY'S STORY GETS TOLD ON THE NATIONAL PLATFORM.

>> AND THAT WORK IS IMPORTANT IN THE AGE OF DONALD TRUMP AND SOCIAL MEDIA.

TRUMP LIKE HIM OR HATE HIM, CREATED A MUCH STRONGER FOCUS ON NATIONAL NEWS.

HE DOMINATES THE NEWS CYCLE.

AND HE ALSO CAME ALONG AT THE TIME THAT SOCIAL MEDIA WERE TAKING OVER AS THE MAIN SOURCE OF INFORMATION.

AND HE AND HIS PEOPLE ARE GOOD AT THAT, TOO.

AND ALL THAT TOOK ATTENTION AWAY FROM STATE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT NEWS.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T MISS IT.

AND THE PEOPLE WHO WERE PROVIDING IT, SOMETIMES DIDN'T DO A GOOD ENOUGH JOB REMINDING THEM HOW IMPORTANT IT WAS AND STILL IS.

>> Renee: YOU THINK ABOUT THE NEW GENERATION OF JOURNALISTS COMING UP WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE THEM WHY TO DO THIS WORK?

AND IF YOU WANT TO BE A FIRST AMENDMENT LAWYER?

>> I AM A TEACHER ON THE PANEL LET ME GO FIRST.

THE MOST ENCOURAGING THING I SAW IN MY FINAL YEARS AT THE UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY I'M OFF THE PAYROLL AS OF AUGUST 1, IS THAT WE HAD STUDENTS COMING INTO THE SCHOOL OF JOURNALISM AND MEDIA WHO SAID I WANT TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE GET THE TRUTH.

THAT WAS ENCOURAGING.

>> Renee: INTERESTING.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

>> IT'S REALLY FUN.

I MEAN, I DON'T THINK YOU COULD HAVE A MORE FUN AND REWARDING JOB.

GET TO GO OUT AND POKE YOUR NOSE IN OTHER PEOPLE'S BUSINESS.

AND TELL THEIR STORIES.

AND IT'S JUST A FASCINATING CAREER.

>> Renee: BUT DO STUDENTS OFTEN CONFUSE JOURNALISM WITH ENTERTAINMENT?

MAYBE NOT IN THE PRINT JOURNALISM SPACE BUT MAYBE THAT IS MORE OF A BROADCAST JOURNALISM?

>> A GOOD STORY SHOULD BE ENTERTAINING.

>> NO COMMENT.

>> THE KENTUCKY LEGISLATURE IS ENDLESSLY ENTERTAINING.

>> TO US AT LEAST.

WE HAVE TO MAKE IT ENTERTAINING TO EVERYBODY ELSE.

>> Renee: ITH THINK THEY DO THAT WELL.

>> WHEN WE COVER THE LEGISLATURE IS HAVE A TIDBIT OUT OF THE DAY THAT WAS FUNNY.

OR ENTERTAINING OR MAYBE IRRITATING.

BUT SOME LITTLE THING ON THE SECTION PAGE THAT WOULD REMIND PEOPLE THAT THESE ARE HUMAN BEINGS, SOMETIMES WAYWARD DOING YOUR BUSINESS THERE IN FRANKFORT.

>> AT ONE POINT, ARE LUCKY TO WORK WITH THE COLLEGE NEWSPAPERS AND HIGH SCHOOL NEWSPAPERS.

AND IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT GIVES ME HOPE ABOUT THE STATE OF WHERE WE'RE GOING, THE ENTHUSIASM AND THE SKILL OF A LOT OF THE COLLEGE JOURNALISTS THAT I'VE WORKED WITH, HAS BEEN UNBELIEVABLE.

AND I THINK.

>> AMEN TO THAT.

>> SOME OF THE BEST INVESTIGATIVE STUFF IS OUT OF COLLEGE NEWSROOMS IN THE STATE.

>> Renee: RICK?

>> THREE THINGS.

ONE, I'M HIRING YOU AS A REPORTER NOT HIRING YOU TO BE AN ADVOCATE.

YOU ARE COMING OUT OF SCHOOL IN HOPES OF BEING ABLE TO THROUGH YOUR WORK CHANGE CAN HAPPEN BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN BECAUSE YOU ARE ON THE FRONTLINES DEMANDING CHANGE THAT IS NOT THE ROLE OF A REPORTER.

THE REPORTER IS TO REPORT THE FACTS AND BE TRUTHFUL AND HOLD THEM TO ACCOUNT.

>> Renee: CHANGE IS A BYPRODUCT.

>> BUT YOU ARE NOT THERE TO BE THE ADVOCATE AND SHARING YOUR OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS.

IT'S HARD WORK.

AND IT'S HARDER NOW THAN IT HAS BEEN AND I'VE BEEN DOING THIS SINCE I WAS 15 YEARS OLD IN OHIO.

YOU ARE REPORTING NEWS AS IT HAPPENS.

YOU ARE TAKING PHOTOS AND VIDEOS.

YOU ARE DOING STAND UPS.

YOU ARE ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND YOU HAVE TO WRITE A STORY THAT IS GOING TO APPEAR ON THE WEBSITE.

WE'LL TAKE THE LAST VERSION.

I MEAN IT IS A JUGGLING ACT IT'S HARD WORK.

BUT THE REWARDS ARE I MEAN, THE REWARDS OF BEING ABLE TO AT THE END OF THE DAY GO HOME AND KNOW THAT YOU CONTRIBUTED TO THE DEMOCRACY AND THE PROTECTION OF SOMETHING THAT IS SO PRECIOUS IN THIS COUNTRY AND YOUR HOMETOWN AND THAT THE WORK YOU DID POTENTIALLY COULD HAVE CHANGED SOMEBODY'S LIFE OR PROTECTED AN INDIVIDUAL WHO IS VULNERABLE.

AND WITHOUT SOUNDING POLY ANNISH, YOU KNOW, I AM IDEALLISTIC ABOUT THAT YOU CAN CHANGE WHERE YOU LIVE BECAUSE OF THE POWER OF THE JOURNALISM WE PRODUCE.

I BELIEVE THAT WHEN I STARTED AND I BELIEVE IT TODAY.

>> Renee: JENIFER FOR A FINAL TIME?

>> SO I RECENTLY WAS CONTACTED BY AN ENGLISH TEACHER AT HOPKINSVILLE HIGH SCHOOL SHE WILL BE TEACHING JOURNALISM AND IS SO EXCITED.

AND SHE ASKED ME TO PARTNER WITH HER AND TO SEE WHAT WE CAN DO.

SO MAYBE I'LL HAVE SOMETHING TO REPORT TO YOU NEXT FALL ABOUT WHAT COMES OUT OF THAT.

I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO IT.

>> Renee: WE ALSO KNOW A LOT OF ADVOCACY GROUPS ARE GETTING INVOLVED IN MEDIA IN SOME WAY, RIGHT?

WHETHER THEY PROVIDE COMMENTARY OR THEY ARE ON THE SCENE OR THEY ARE ON SHOWS LIKE WE HAVE HERE THAT THEY ARE TRYING TO INFILTRATE PERHAPS AND BECOME THE CREDITS OF A JOURNALISM.

>> THE GERT OF STATE AND LOCAL NEWS IS BEING FILLED BY PEOPLE WHO HAVE SOMETHING TO SELL YOU.

BUT THEY ARE NOT BEING UP FRONT ABOUT IT.

THEY PRESENT THE NEWS IN THE WAY THEY THINK YOU WANT TO SEE IT AND THEY ARE OUT FOR PERSUASION INSTEAD OF INFORMATION.

WE HAVE OUTLETS PRINT AND VISIONUAL CALLED PINK SLIME NAMED AFTER THE MEAT INGREDIENT BECAUSE IT'S NOT REALLY JOURNALISM BUT IT'S MASQUERADING AS JOURNALISM AND THAT WORRIES ME BECAUSE OF WHAT I SAID ABOUT PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTANDING WHAT JOURNALISM IS SUPPOSED TO BE.

>> Renee: AND IT GIVES THEM THE CONFIRMATION THEY ARE SEEKING RATHER THAN THE INFORMATION THAT THEY SHOULD BE.

ANY OTHER COMMENT ON THAT?

>> THIS IS NOT ON THAT.

BUT WHEN MICHAEL TALKED ABOUT OUR OPEN RECORDS AND OPEN MEETINGS LAWS, I THOUGHT THOSE TRANSPARENCY LAWS IN MANY WAYS GREW OUT OF THE WATERGATE SCANDAL IN THE 70s.

AND YOU KNOW, TO MAYBE SOUND A BIT MORE OPTIMISTIC NOTE THAN I HAVE SO FAR OUR DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTIONS WERE ON THE LINE THEN.

DOING THE -- DURING THE NIXON SCANDAL.

AND THEY CAME THROUGH REALLY WELL.

AND IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS THIS TIME AROUND.

>> Renee: REAL QUICK QUESTION FROM ROBERT COMING ASKED WHAT IS GOING TO FILL THE VOID OF NEWSPAPERS AND MAGAZINES WHICH ARE DISAPPEARING QUICKLY?

>> THEY ARE NOT DISAPPEARING QUICKLY.

NEWSPAPERS HAVE OVERINFLATED THEIR OWN OBITUARY.

THERE ARE ONLY FIVE COUNTIES IN THE STATE THAT DON'T HAVE A LOCAL NEWSPAPER AND THREE OF THOSE HAVE GOOD ON-LINE LOCAL NEWS OUTLETS IN NORTHERN KENTUCKY.

AND NEWSPAPERS ARE SMALLER THAN THEY USED TO BE.

THEY ARE NOT A STRONG AS THEY USED TO BE.

BUT THEY ARE STILL THERE.

AND PAPER'S LIKE THE EMPTYINGLE AND WHITE SPUR KENTUCKY IS STILL DOING A HELL OF A JOB FOR THE PEOPLE.

>> IT STILL SCREAMS.

>> AND THE COMMUNITY VOICE IS DOING THE SAME THING.

BUT THE PUBLISHER SHARON BURTON HAS HAD TO BRANCH OUT AND GET INTO THE SIGN BUSINESS.

THAT IS THE STATE OF LOCAL JOURNALISM TODAY.

IT NEEDS ALL THE HELP IT CAN GET.

ESPECIALLY FROM THE AUDIENCE.

>> I'M MORE CONCERNED ABOUT IT THAN THAT.

I ABSOLUTELY I FEEL THAT THE COMMONWEALTH IS AN ABERRATION BUT WE HAVE SEEN AROUND THIS COUNTRY HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF NEWSPAPERS THAT HAVE SHUT DOWN.

AND, YES, WE ARE REINVENTING OURSELF?

SOME FORM.

THE FACT THAT WE ARE A DIGITAL POWERHOUSE AS OPPOSED TO BE A SEVEN DAY PRINT EDITION BUT IF YOU LOOK AROUND THE COUNTRY, THERE IS A VACUUM OF LOCAL NEWS AND WE'RE BLESSED TO NOT HAVE THE SOBERING EFFECTS AS WE DO IN KENTUCKY VERSUS OTHER PARTS OF THE COUNTRY BUT I WORRY HOW LONG THAT CAN LAST.

>> THE PROBLEM IS NOT QUANTITY AS IT IS QUALITY.

WE ARE LOSING ABOUT TWO-AND-A-HALF NEWSPAPERS A WEEK AND THEY ARE MOSTLY WEEKLIES AND NONCOUNTY SEAT TOWNS.

>> Renee: I HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

WE WILL HAVE YOU BACK, OF COURSE.

AND WE WILL SEE YOU TOMORROW NIGHT 6:30 EASTERN, 5:30 CENTRAL FOR KENTUCKY EDITION I WILL BE IN HOPTOWN TALKING TO JENIFER AND OTHERS FOR THE NEXT TWO OR THREE DAYS AND I WILL SEE YOU THEN.

TAKE GOOD CARE AND HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.