"ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

>> CATHY: BIG SHOW FOR YOU TONIGHT.

A NATIONAL EXPERT ON USE OF FORCE JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT THE STATE PATROL FATAL SHOOTING EARLIER THIS WEEK.

KAOMI LEE EXPLORES MINNESOTA IN AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE.

THERE'S A NEW TRAIL AT THE MINNESOTA ZOO, AND WE HAVE MORE IRISH MUSIC FOR YOU TONIGHT.

STICK AROUND, IT'S "ALMANAC."

♪♪ "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 27 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

ONE GREATER MINNESOTA REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE OTTO BREMER TRUST, WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES AND OPPORTUNITIES IN OUR REGION.

CLEAR ♪♪ >> WE HAVE I IF YOU MEAN SHOW FOR YOU TONIGHT.

WE'RE GOING TO TALK WITH THE BLOOMINGTON OLICE CHIEF ABOUT DRIVING WHILE UNDER IT IS INFLUENCE OF CANNABIS.

HEAR ABOUT CHALLENGES FACING INDEPENDENT NEIGHBORHOOD PHARMACIES, AND A DUO OF POLITICAL SCIENTISTS SORT THROUGH THE NEW TRUMP INDICTMENTS.

>> ERIC: WE START TONIGHT WITH THE FATAL SHOOTING OF RICKY COBB, II BY THE MINNESOTA STATE PATROL EARLY MONDAY MORNING DURING A TRAFFIC STOP.

EXPERTS SAY THE BODY CAMERA FOOTAGE RELEASED PUBLICLY RAISES COMPLEX LEGAL QUESTIONS.

HERE WITH MORE, A NATIONAL USE-OF-FORCE EXPERT.

DAVID THOMAS IS A PROFESSOR IN THE DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE STUDIES AT FLORIDA GULF COAST UNIVERSITY IN FORT MYERS, FLORIDA.

AND A RETIRED POLICE OFFICER.

THANKS FOR JOINING US.

FROM WHAT YOU KNOW OF THE EVIDENCE, IS IT A CLOSE CALL AS FAR AS CHARGES BEING FILED AGAINST THE TROOPER?

>> FIRST, LET ME SAY THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME AND, YES, IT IS A CLOSE CALL.

I LOOKED AT THAT VIDEO BECAUSE I KNEW TODAY, I LOOKED AT THAT VIDEO LIKE 40 TIMES TRYING TO ASCERTAIN IF WE COULD SEPARATE CERTAIN THINGS AND WE CAN'T.

IT'S VERY DIFFICULT.

>> Cathy: I'M WONDERING, YOU KNOW, OFFICERS DO HAVE A RIGHT TO ASK A PERSON TO GET OUT OF THE CAR, RIGHT?

THAT'S NOT UNUSUAL.

>> RIGHT, THAT IS CORRECT.

THERE IS A COURT CASE OUT OF MICHIGAN CALLED MICHIGAN VERSUS LONG WHICH GIVES THEM THE AUTHORITY TO ASK THE DRIVER TO STEP OUT SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH THE DRIVER.

>> Eric: A KEY FACTOR SEEMS TO BE IF Mr. COBB DROVE AWAY BEFORE OR AFTER SHOTS WERE FIRED.

WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

>> TO ME, WHEN I LOOK AT THE VIDEO, I'M WONDERING IF, HEN THE TROOPER HAD HIS GUN DRAWN, AS Mr. COBB DECIDED TO DRIVE OFF, WAS IT THE JERKING OF THE VEHICLE THAT PORTIONED THE TROOPER TO PULL THE TRIGGER ON HIS GUN, WAS IT AN ACCIDENTAL DISCHARGE?

SO THAT'S THE ISSUE AT HAND.

THERE ARE A HOLE OTHER -- WHOLE HOST OF OTHER ISSUES, LIKE WHY DEV HIS GUN OUT WHEN HE WAS ENTERING THE CAR, WITH THE INTENT OF HELPING REMOVE Mr. COBB FROM THE CAR.

>> Cathy: CAN I ASK, I WANT TO GO BACK TO MY QUESTION ABOUT OFFICERS ASKING A PERSON TO GET OUT OF THE CAR.

BUT, Mr. COBB DID NOT.

YOU'RE BLACK MAN, CAN YOU TALK ABOUT THAT, ABOUT MAYBE SOME FEAR GOING ON HERE, ON THE PART OF r. COBB?

>> THERE'S NO DOUBT.

THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT BEING -- BEING BLACK AND BEING STOPPED BY POLICE, THERE IS INHERENT FEAR THAT HAS GONE ON FOR YEARS AND WITH THE MOST RECENT DEATHS AND THE MOST RECENT SHOOTINGS, YOU KNOW, THERE IS GOING TO BE APPREHENSION.

WHAT THE BLACK COMMUNITY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND, WHAT EVERYBODY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THAT -- OF GETTING IN AND OUT OF THE VEHICLE IS NOT GOING TO BE WON THERE ON STREET AND THEY SHOULD ACTUALLY COMPLY.

>> Eric: WAS THERE A LEGIT STOP IN HE FIRST PLACE?

>> SURE FROM, MY UNDERSTANDING, THE STOP WAS, HE HAD NO TAILLIGHTS AND THEN I ALSO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY RAN HIM, THEY RAN HIS TAG AND WHAT IT CAME BACK TO WAS THAT THERE IT WAS A WARRANT, BUT WHEN THEY MADE THE TRAFFIC STOP, THEY MADE THE TRAFFIC STOP BASED ON THE FACT THAT THERE WERE NO TAILLIGHTS.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, WE'VE HAD OTHER USE OF FORCE SITUATIONS AROUND HERE AND SOMETIMES THE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER SAYS I FEARED FOR MY SAFETY.

CAN YOU ADDRESS THAT?

- WHERE WOULD THAT MIGHT HAVE COME IN WHEN Mr. COBB DROVE AWAY?

WHERE WOULD THAT COME IN?

>> I DON'T KNOW AND, YOU KNOW, IN AN ARTICLE WHERE I WAS INTERVIEWED YESTERDAY, I SAID IT WAS A CRAP-SHOOT BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE.

THIS IS -- WHEN WE TALK ABOUT FEARING FOR YOUR -- AN OFFICER FEARING FOR HIS OR HER SAFETY, THAT LITERALLY IS AN INDEPENDENT DECISION.

SO WHAT ONE OFFICER MIGHT SEE AS FEAR FOR THEIR LIFE IS ANOTHER OFFICER MAY NEVER SEE THAT.

I DO KNOW WHEN I LOOK AT THIS SHOOTING, THIS SCENARIO, I LOOK AT IT FROM THE STANDPOINT OF THERE WERE USE TONS OF TACTICAL ERRORS AND OFTENTIMES, WHEN YOU SEE THIS, THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE ARE TACTICAL ERRORS.

>> Eric: THESE WERE RELATIVELY INEXPERIENCED TROOPERS, DOES THAT COME INTO PLAY A ITTLE BIT, OR DOES IT?

>> YES, BUT IT SHOULDN'T BECAUSE IF THEY'VE BEEN TRAINED PROPERLY, IT SHOULDN'T.

WHEN I'M LOOKING AT -- TO GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

THE TROOPER ON THE PASSENGER SIDE HAD HIS GUN DRAWN.

THE TROOPER ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE S IN THE DIRECT LINE OF FIRE, SO EVEN IF THERE IS A DISCHARGE, THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT HIS PARTNER WOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT.

>> Cathy: HOW DO YOU TRAIN YOUR FOLKS WHEN YOU'RE IN CLASS?

WHAT DO YOU TALK ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO FORCE?

>> THE IDEA IS THAT OFFICERS SHOULD BE IN CONTROL, WHERE I THINK WHERE WE'VE MADE A MISTAKE FOR YEARS IS WE'VE TRAINED OFFICERS TO GIVE LOUD, VERBAL COMMANDS AND YOU SAW THAT, YOU SAW THE TROOPER ON THE DRIVER'S SIDE, HE HAD GREAT DIALOGUE AND HE HAD GOOD COMMUNICATION SKILLS.

AND THEN THE TROOPER ON THE PASSENGER SIDE DECIDED TO JURY JECT BECAUSE IT WASN'T MOVING FAST ENOUGH AND SO HE STARTED YELLING.

SO JUST THINK ABOUT BEING THAT DRIVER AND NOW YOU'RE -- YOUR FIGHT OR FLIGHT IS COMING IN BECAUSE YOU'RE ETTING TWO OPPOSING MESSAGES.

YOU HAVE THE HEIGHTENED ANXIETY OF THE OFFICER WITH THE FIREARM AND THE TROOPER WHO'S TRYING TO BE CALM ON THE OTHER SIDE SO WHAT -- YOU TRAIN THEM TO DE-ESCALATE SO IT SHOULD BE WHERE DEESCALATION IS NECESSARY AND THAT MEANS WHAT SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED, THE TROOPER ON THE PASSENGER SIDE SHOULD NOT HAVE OPENED UP AND STARTED YELLING, HE SHOULD HAVE JUST KIND OF FOLLOWED THE LIED OF THE TROOPER THAT MADE THE ORIGINAL STOP.

>> Eric: I KNOW OU'RE FAMILIAR WITH MINNEAPOLIS/St.

PAUL HISTORY ON POLICE OFFICERS SHOOTING BLACK DRIVERS, OR THE GEORGE FLOYD SITUATION AND I WONDER IF YOU HAVE AN OBSERVATION FROM A LONG WAY AWAY FROM HOW POLITICS AND PAST EXPERIENCE CAN GET INVOLVED IN DETERMINING SOMETHING LIKE THIS, CHARGES AND SO FORTH.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE PROSECUTOR HAS -- HE OR SHE -- HE OR SHE HAS THE RIGHT, THEY HAVE TO MAKE THAT FINAL DECISION, BASED ON THE OUTCOME OF THE INVESTIGATION.

AND I WOULD DARE SAY THAT POLITICS HAS A LOT DO WITH IT BUT, ON THE OTHER SIDES OF THAT, I THINK THEY ARE BOUND BY THE DUTY OF LAW, BY THE COLOR OF LAW TO DO THE RIGHT THING.

SO FROM WHAT MY EXPERIENCE SAYS THAT THEY SHOULD -- THAT SHOULDN'T BE AN ISSUE AS LONG AS THEY FOLLOW THE AW AND WHAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO HAPPEN HERE, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO BE VIDEO, NOT JUST THE VIDEO OF THE TROOPERS BUT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE VIDEO WHERE THEY SLOWED DOWN TO SEE WHEN THE SHOT WAS FIRED AND I THINK THAT WILL KIND OF HELP DETERMINE WHERE THEY GO FROM THERE.

>> Cathy: ALL RIGHT.

PROFESSOR, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME.

WE REALLY APPRECIATE IT.

>> Eric: THANK YOU, SIR.

>> HANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

IT'S BEEN A PLEASURE.

>> Eric: OU BET.

♪♪ >> CATHY: BY NOW, MOST MINNESOTANS KNOW THAT RECREATIONAL USE OF MARIJUANA BECAME LEGAL IN THE STATE ON TUESDAY.

WE'VE BEEN EXAMINING DIFFERENT ASPECTS OF THE NEW LAW IN THE PAST FEW WEEKS.

UP TONIGHT, PUBLIC SAFETY CONCERNS ABOUT DRIVING WHILE HIGH.

BLOOMINGTON POLICE CHIEF BOOKER HODGES JOINS US.

IT'S GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

>> THANKS NOR HAVING ME.

>> Cathy: THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE.

WELL, I'M BETTING YOUR OFFICERS HAVE PROBABLY STOPPED I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY DRIVERS OVER MANY YEARS, DRIVING WHILE HIGH.

WHAT DO YOU GUYS LOOK FOR?

WHAT DO YOU ALL LOOK FOR?

>> SO, YOU LOOK FOR SIGNS OF IMPAIRMENT, RIGHT, SO THEIR EYES, SLOW MOVEMENT, BUT MARIJUANA AND CANNABIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN ONE THAT'S BEEN PARTICULARLY HARD TO ARREST PEOPLE FOR FOR D.W.I.

OR DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE.

SO I'LL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

SAY I STOP YOU FOR BLOWING A STOP IGN, RIGHT, AND YOU SMELL LIKE ALL HOME.

I GIVE YOU THE TEST, WE'RE DONE.

BUT SAY I TOP YOU FOR BLOWING THE STOP SIGN AND I SMELL MARIJUANA, RIGHT?

I WILL HAVE O ROVE WAS YOUR DRIVING CONDUCT A RESULT OF IMPAIRMENT AND THAT'S A LOT HARDER TO DO UNDER MARIJUANA.

SO FOR ALCOHOL, YOU CAN GET STOPPED NOR ANY REASON AND IF YOU SMELL IT, YOU CAN DO A TEST AND YOU'RE GOOD.

BUT FOR MARIJUANA, THAT'S A LOT -- GOING TO BE A LOT MORE DIFFICULT TO DO AND MOST POLICE DEPARTMENTS, EACH US IN BLOOMINGTON, WE'RE THE FOURTH LARGEST CITY IN THE STATE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY DRUG RECOGNITION EXPERTS AS OFFICERS RIGHT NOW AND I THINK A LOT OF POLICE DEPARTMENTS HAVE STARTED TO GO AWAY FROM THAT PROGRAM A LITTLE BIT WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE STATE PATROL BUT THAT'S -- THIS IS GOING TO PRESENT SOME ISSUES FOR US.

>> Cathy: AND YOU DON'T HAVE TESTING, THERE'S NOT A TEST LIKE YOU WOULD, SAY, YOU HAVE A BREATH ALIZER TEST.

>> NO, THERE'S NO TEST RIGHT NOW.

>> Eric: ARE YOU AND THE MAYOR AND CITY COUNCIL LOOKING AT LIMITS IN THE IN THE CITY OF BLOOMINGTON?

I GUESS UNTIL THERE ARE STATEWIDE TOTAL LAWS, IT WILL BE KIND OF A CHECKERBLOOD KIND OF STUFF.

WHAT ARE YOU LOOKING FOR IN BLOOMINGTON?

>> WE'RE GOING TO MAKE A PRESENTATION ON THE 28 OF AUGUST, I THINK IT IS, SO THE CITY OF BLOOMINGTON IS STILL WOKING AT THAT.

I KNOW SOME CITIES HAVE ARE LOOKING AT PUTTING WHERE YOU CAN SMOKE IT AND TUFF LIKE THAT.

>> Eric: HOW DOES A MARIJUANA USER KNOW THAT HE OR SHE IS IN NO CONDITION TO DRIVE A VEHICLE?

[Laughter] >> I WISH I HAD AN ANSWER FOR YOU FOR HAT.

I DON'T KNOW, RIGHT?

SO HERE'S -- IF YOU FEEL IMPAIRED, DON'T DRIVER.

RIGHT?

IF YOU USE ANNABIS, DON'T DRIVE AFTER CONSUMING IT, RIGHT, AND I THINK FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, THE ISSUE IS GOING TO BECOME GUM'S, BECAUSE A LOT OF PEOPLE, WHEN YOU USE GUMMIES, IT'S NOT THAT INSTANT EFFECT.

YOU CAN GO AN HOUR, HALF HOUR, YOU DON'T FEEL NOTHING AND THEN YOU GET BEHIND THE WHEEL OF A CAR AND IT HITS YOU.

IF YOU'RE GOING TO USE CANNABIS, I WOULD JUST SAY DON'T DRIVER.

THE SIMPLEST WAY TO GET AROUND THAT.

>> Cathy: YOU MENTIONED YOUR OFFICERS.

HAVE YOU HAD TRAINING JUNE DATES, HAVE YOU UPDATED YOUR TRAINING, HOW IS THAT GOING TO WORK AND I BELT THAT'S PRETTY EXPENSIVE?

>> YEAH, IT IS, AND THE $15 MILLION THE LEGISLATURE PUT FORWARD FOR IT IS NOT ENOUGH.

BUT AGAIN, I GO BACK TO, THESE ARE GOING TO BE VERY HARD $TO PROSECUTE U ABSENT SOME DRIVING CONDUCT.

WHERE ALCOHOL, SERIOUSLY IF YOU GETS STOPPED FOR AN OUT TAILLIGHT OR SOMETHING AND THEY SMELL ALCOHOL, YOU CAN GET WRITTEN FOR A D.W.I.

BUT MARIJUANA, THAT WILL BE HARDER TO PROVE.

>> Cathy: HOW WORRIED ARE YOU ABOUT THE -- ABOUT FOLKS DRIVING AROUND IMPAIRED?

HOW IMPAIRED CAN YOU GET?

CAN YOU CAUSE TRAFFIC CRASHES?

>> WE'RE WORRIED ECAUSE AT THE END OF THE DAY, THE VAST MAJORITY OF PEOPLE IN SOCIETY FOLLOW THE RULES.

WE KIND OF FOCUS ON THOSE THAT DON'T, BUT THE VAST MAJORITY FOLLOW THE RULES.

NOW THIS IS LEGAL AND BECOMES MORE READILY AVAILABLE, ESPECIALLY FOR OUR KIDS, THAT'S GOING TO BE -- I BELIEVE IT'S GOING TO PRESENT A SIGNIFICANT PROBLEM LIKE IT LAST IN EVERY OTHER STATE THAT'S LEGALIZED IT.

>> Cathy: SAY, YOU HAVE DRUG DOGS, DON'T YOU?

>> YES.

>> Cathy: ARE THEY OUT OF A JOB NOW?

>> NO, WE MOVED AWAY FROM MARIJUANA D.U.I.

TEXAS DOGS A LONG TIME AGO SO ANY POLICE AGENCY THAT HAS A MARIJUANA DETECTION DOG, HAT DOG IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO WORK THE STREET.

>> Eric: DID YOU GET A COOPERATION FROM THE LEGISLATURE WHEN CHIEFS OF POLICE RAISED CONCERNS, WERE YOU PART OF THE NEGOTIATIONS ON ALL THAT?

>> NO, THE CHIEFS' ASSOCIATION DID BUT THEY WERE INTENT ON MAKING IT LEGAL AND THE BIGGEST ISSUE, AND I WANT PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND THIS ABOUT THIS WAS, BY THE TIME WE BECAME LEGAL AND THE TIME YOU CAN ACTUALLY BUY IT AT A DISTILL RE, WE BELIEVE THAT THAT TIME DIFFERENCE IS GOING TO BE FILLED IN BY THE ILLICIT MARKET.

SO IF YOU WERE GOING TO DO THERE, YOU SHOULD HAVE MADE IT LEGAL AT THE SAME TIME PEOPLE WERE ABLE TO BUY IT LEGALLY AS OPPOSED TO THE ILLICIT MARKET TO FILL THE GAP IN THE NEXT YEAR.

>> Eric: I HOPE YOU CAN FILL US IN ON THIS AS WE GO DOWN THE TRAIL.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> CATHY: THE HIGH COST OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS HAS LED BOTH CONGRESS AND MANY STATE LEGISLATURES, INCLUDING HERE IN MINNESOTA, TO ENACT LAWS DESIGNED TO CURB SOARING DRUG PRICES.

FRED DE SAM LAZARO IS A TWIN CITIES BASED CORRESPONDENT FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR.

HIS RECENT NATIONAL REPORT ON THE FINANCIAL CHALLENGES FACING SMALL AND INDEPENDENT PHARMACIES IN THE CURRENT DRUG-PRICING SYSTEM BEGINS RIGHT HERE IN ST. PAUL.

>> THIS STORY BEGAN ON A PERSONAL NOTE.

I RECENTLY WENT TO REFILL A PRESCRIPTION AT MY NEIGHBORHOOD PHARMACY.

I ASSUMED MY DRUG'S $500 CO-PAY WAS BRINGING A REASONABLE PROFIT TO THE STORE.

BUT UCH TO MY SURPRISE A FEW MONTHS AGO, THE FOLKS AT St. PAUL CORNER DRUG ASKED IF I COULD TAKE MY BUSINESS ELSEWHERE BECAUSE THEY WERE LOSING MONEY FILLING THIS PRESCRIPTION.

>> IF YOU PAY $578 FOR SOMETHING AND YOU ONLY TAKE IN $500, THAT'S NOT A SUSTAINABLE MODEL AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW.

>> JOHN OWNS THE DRUGSTORE AND NORMAN ROCKWELL LIKE FIXTURE THAT'S BEEN HERE FOR 101 YEARS, COMPLETE WITH A SODA FOUNTAIN UNTIL THE PANDEMIC.

HE'S NOT SURE HOW LONG HE WILLEE BE ABLE TO HANG ON.

>> THEY'RE LITERALLY UCKING THE FINANCIAL LIFE OUT OF MY BUSINESS.

>> THE THE "THEY" HE'S REFERRING TO ARE THREE PRINCIPAL LINKS IN A COMPLEX SUPPLY CHAIN.

DRUG MANUFACTURERS, WHOLESALE DISTRIBUTORS AND HE SAYS, HIS MOST IMMEDIATE EXISTENTIAL THREAT, PBRMs OR PHARMACY BENEFIT MANAGERS.

SO-CALLED MIDDLE MEN COMPANIES THAT DETERMINE WHAT DRUGS ARE COVERED BY INSURANCE, THE PRICE HE IS PAID AND THE CO-PAYS REQUIRED OF PATIENTS.

PBMs BEGAN TO GROW RAPID PLEA IN THE 1980s AND '90s AS THE PHARMACEUTICAL PIPELINE BEGAN SWELLING WHERE NO DRUGS, STATINS TO LOWER CREST CONTROL, ACID-REDUCERS, HEALTH SHORESSERS SCRAMBLED TO KEEP UP.

>> IT DIDN'T TAKE VERY LONG FOR THE INSURANCE SIDE OF LIFE TO SAY, HEY, YOU WANT TO MANAGE THIS STUFF FOR US, GREAT.

IT WAS A REASONABLE THING TO SIMPLIFY THE CLAIMS MANAGEMENT OF PRESCRIPTION DRUGS.

>> PBMs WERE HIRED BY INSURANCE COMPANIES TO MANAGE THE GROWING DRUG BENEFIT COSTS BRING ESTABLISHING AND MAINTAINING FORMULARIES, A LIST OF WHAT DRUGS WILL AND WILL NOT BE COVERED.

OVER TIME, THEY'VE EVOLVED INTO A MULTI-BILLION-DOLLAR BUSINESS THEMSELVES.

>> THEY LITERALLY ARE TAKING MONEY FROM EVERY ASPECT OF PHARMACY DISTRIBUTION.

>> THEY DEMAND EXTENSIVE DOCUMENTATION, TIE REIMBURSEMENTS TO ELABORATE METRICS OF QUALITY AND HITS, HE COMPLAINS, REIMBURSE HIM FAR LESS THAN WHAT IT COSTS TO FILL A PRESCRIPTION, FAR LESS THAN THEY BILL THEIR CLIENT HEALTH PLANS FOR THE SAME PRESCRIPTION.

>> BILL BLUE CROSS $40, PAY ME $7.

PEOPLE ASK WHERE DOES IT IS 33 GO?

TO THE PBM.

>> AMOUNT PBMs MUCH BRANCHED INTO INTO HIS BUSINESS WITH THEIR OWN RETAIL SHOPS LIKE CVS AND MAIL ORDER AND SPECIALTY PHARMACIES.

>> ALL THE THINGS THAT YOU SEE ADVERTISED ON TV, THOSE ARE ALL ESSENTIALLY NOT AVAILABLE AT MY PHARMACY.

THEY'VE BEEN CLASSIFIED BY THE PHARMACY BENEFIT MANAGER INDUSTRY AS SPECIALTY DRUGS, AND WHAT'S SPECIAL ABOUT 'EM IS THAT THEY CAN MAKE A LOT OF MONEY OFF OF THEM.

>> NOTHING BEYOND YOUR EXPERTISE.

>> CORRECT.

>> ERIC: HERE WITH MORE ON THIS STORY, FRED DE SAM LAZARO.

WELCOME BACK.

WHO DUE ROOT FOR HERE, THE BENEFIT MANAGERS, THE INSURANCE INDUSTRY, BIG PHARMA?

>> YOU KNOW, ERIC, THIS IS A HALF-TRILLION-DOLLAR INDUSTRY, $500 BILLION A YEAR AND AS YOU MIGHT IMAGINE, IT'S A LITTLE COMPLICATED, IT'S A LITTLE OH PACK AND -- AND SORT OF WHACK-A-MOLE AS YOU TRY IF YOU'RE A LAWMAKER OR A POLICY-MAKER TO ADVOCATE SOMETHING BECAUSE IT NEEDS TO BE SWEEPING TO BE EFFECTIVE.

OTHERWISE YOU HAVE A WHACK-A-MOLE SITUATION.

ATTACK IT HERE, IT WILL POP UP SOMEWHERE ELSE.

IT'S VERY COMPLICATED AND AS ONE OF THE PEOPLE IN OUR PIECE, Dr. VINCENT, WHO YOU'LL SEE IN OUR SEGMENT SAYS, IT MAY BE FIFTY PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY WHO UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE SYSTEM.

I AM NOT ONE OF THOSE.

>> Cathy: HE DID SAY, HE DID TELL YOU THAT OUTRAGE HE FELT WILL CHANGE THE SYSTEM.

THAT KIND OF HAPPENED WITH INSULIN, DID IT NOT?

>> YEAH, AND FROM ALL ACCOUNTS, THAT IS AN EXCEPTION.

THERE EVEN ARE PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT THE INSULIN DECISION, THAT IS THE DECISION TO LOWER THE PRICE OF INSULIN HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH MEDICAID REIMBURSEMENTS THAT WOULD COME TO PHARM SUIT CALL COMPANIES, SO IT'S A LITTLE BLURRY BUT SUFFICE IT TO SAY THAT THE PHARMA COMPANIES DID COME UNDER CONSIDERABLE PUBLIC PRESSURE FOR THE PRICE OF INSULIN.

WE HAD A CELEBRATED CASE IN MINNESOTA WHERE A YOUNG MAN ACTUALLY DIED BECAUSE HE COULDN'T AFFORD HIS INSULIN.

>> Eric: HOW DID THE PHARMACY BENEFIT MANAGERS GET A TOEHOLD IN THE FIRST PLACE?

>> IT IS A REFLECTION OF HOW THIS IS -- THIS IS THE POSITIVE SIDE OF THE PHARMACEUTICAL STORY.

WE HAVE SEEN A SWELLING OF THE PIPELINE OF DRUGS, JUST SWELL ENORMOUSLY BEGINNING IN THE '70s AND '80s AND IF YOU'RE AN EMPLOYER TRYING TO COFFER YOUR EMPLOYEES, AND YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY IS TRYING TO MANAGE ALL OF THIS, IT WAS BEST TO OUT-SOURCE THIS TO HAVE SOMEBODY ACTUALLY MANAGE A BENEFIT.

WHAT THEN HAPPENS IS THAT YOU HAVE MUSHROOMING OFF THE BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY OF THESE PEOPLE.

PBMs BECOME VERY LARGE AND VERY ATTRACTIVE AND TODAY THE THREE LARGEST OF THEM, ARE OWNED BY LARGE INSURANCE COMPANIES.

>> Eric: IS THIS VERTICAL INTEGRATION OR SOMETHING?

>> THEY'RE OWNED BY INSURANCE COMPANIES WHICH -- AND THE THREE LARGEST OF THEM COMMAND 80% OF THE MARKET, SO YOU CAN IMAGINE THEIR SIZE.

SO THIS IS VERY, VERY COMPLICATED IN TERMS OF DETERMINING WHY DRUG PRICES ARE GOING UP BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE PHARMACEUTICAL COMPANIES BLAMING THE PBMs AND THE PBMs SAY, OH, NO, IF IT WERE NOT FOR US, THESE PRICES WOULD BE EVEN HIGHER.

>> Cathy: THERE SEEMS THAT THERE'S, THEN, QUITE A GREAT DEAL OF CONSOLIDATION, SOUNDS LIKE, IF I'M LISTENING TO YOU CORRECTLY.

MIGHT LAWMAKERS -- ARE THERE ANTI-TRUST LAWS THEY COULD USE TO BREAK SOME OF THIS UP?

DOESN'T SOUNDS LIKE THAT'S EVEN POSSIBLE.

>> I THINK WHAT HAS BEEN INITIATED, AND YOU'RE SEEING BIPARTISAN EFFORTS ON THIS, THIS IS ONE OF THE FEW CASES IN WHICH YOU'RE SEEING A LOT OF BIPARTISANSHIP IN TERMS OF TRYING TO GET SOMETHING RESEMBLING TRANSPARENCY INTO THE PICTURE.

ONE OF THE BIGGEST POINTS OF CONTENTION IS THE MOW GUESS OPERANDI OF PBMs WHICH GO TO INSURANCE COMPANIES AND SAY IF YOU -- I'M PICKING A NAME -- PFIZER, WANT YOUR PRODUCT IN OUR FORMULARY TO BE COVERED BY OUR PROGRAM INSTEAD OF THE MERCK PRODUCT OR THE OTHER PRODUCTS, YOU WILL GIVE US A DISCOUNTS ON YOUR PRODUCT AND THAT DISCOUNT OR REBATE, NOBODY KNOWS HOW MUCH IT IS, YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OF THAT IS PASSED BACK ON TO THE CUSTOMER.

IT IS PROPRIETARY INFORMATION SO THERE ARE EFFORTS TO BRING SOME OF THAT TRANSPARENCY INTO THE PICTURE.

THERE ALSO ARE EFFORTS AT THE STATE LEVEL TO DEAL WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING TO THE LIKES OF JOHN HESHON AT St. PAUL CORNER DRUG, WHICH IS HIS REIMBURSEMENTS TO FILL A PRESCRIPTION, WHICH TYPICALLY WOULD BE ABOUT $10.75 FOR ALL THAT IT TAKES TO FILL A BOTTLE OF PILLS FOR YOU AND ME.

>> Eric: YOU REALLY HAVE A TERRIFIC PIECE ON -- IS IT PBS.ORG?

>> IT'S PBS.ORG/NEWSHOUR.

>> Eric: IT'S TIME WELL SPENT TO GET A HANDLE ON THIS BECAUSE IT'S -- >> IT BARELY SCRATCHES IT IS SURFACE AND ONE LAST THING THAT'S UNIQUE ABOUT MINNESOTA, NOT AS MUCH UNIQUE AS A DUBIOUS FIRST PLACE, MINNESOTA HAS SEEN MORE COMMUNITY PHARMACIES GO OUT OF BUSINESS THAN ANY OTHER STATE IN THE COUNTRY.

A THIRD OF OUR MA AND PA PHARMACY STORES, THAT'S SIMPLIFICATION, HAVE GONE UNDER IN THE LAST DECADE.

>> Eric: SAD RECORD.

THANKS, FRED, ALWAYS GREAT STUFF.

>> Cathy: GOOD TO SEE YOU.

GOOD WORK.

>> THANK YOU.

♪♪ >> SO FAR, A LOT HAS HAPPENED THIS AUGUST.

AND WITH THE LEGALIZATION OF MARIJUANA, IT'S UNDERSTANDABLE THAT MANY OF YOU MAY HAVE FORGOTTEN SOME KEY POINTS IN THE PAST COUPLE OF DAYS.

AND WHILE THIS SHOW DOES A GREAT JOB OF KEEPING YOU INFORMED AND UPDATED, I WANT TO REMIND PEOPLE THAT THIS JULY WENT DOWN AS THE HOTTEST MONTH EVER RECORDED IN HUMAN HISTORY.

WHICH IS TO SAY, HUMANITY HAS NEVER BEEN AS SWEATY AS IT IS NOW.

YOU GUYS, WE'RE ALL FEELING THE HEAT AND IT'S MAKING US A LITTLE SELF-CONSCIOUS.

NO ONE LOOKS GOOD COVERED IN SWEAT AND IT'S MAKING US UNCOMFORTABLE.

SO FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS, LET'S ALL GIVE EACH OTHER A BREAK.

FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU'RE TALKING TO SOMEONE AND YOU FIND A BEAD OF SWEAT COMING DOWN THEIR TEMPLE, DON'T ASSUME THEY'RE NERVOUS, ASSUME THAT IT'S AT LEAST 90 DEGREES OUTSIDE.

IF YOU SHAKE SOMEONE'S HAND, DON'T GET TOO SURPRISED IF IT'S CLAMMY.

I BIKED HERE TODAY BUT IF YOU WERE TO SHAKE MY HAND, IT WOULD FEEL LIKE I SWAM HERE.

AND WE GOTTA STOP WORRYING ABOUT SWEAT STAINS.

IT'S HOT!

IF YOU INVITE PEOPLE TO YOUR SUMMER WEDDING, YOU HAVE TO EXPECT SWEAT STAINS.

JUST BECAUSE IT'S YOUR SPECIAL DAY DOESN'T MEAN THERE ISN'T A HEAT ADVISORY.

I KNOW AS MINNESOTANS WE'RE NOT USED TO THE HEAT.

WE CELEBRATE A LACK OF SNOW AND WE THROW CAUTION TO THE WIND, BUT YOU KNOW WHAT WE SHOULDN'T THROW AWAY?

A TINY HANDKERCHIEF THAT YOU CAN PAT YOUR FACE WITH WHEN YOU'RE FEELING A LITTLE STEAMY.

I KNOW IT'S A LITTLE WEIRD, BUT IT'S SUMMER.

AND IN A FEW WEEKS, IT'LL BE FALL.

SO FOR NOW, BE KIND, DRINK YOUR WATER, AND PERSPIRE FOR JUST A LITTLE BIT LONGER.

♪♪ >> ERIC: NEXT WEEKEND, THE ANNUAL IRISH FAIR OF MINNESOTA RETURNS TO HARRIET ISLAND RIGHT HERE IN ST. PAUL.

IF YOU CAN'T WAIT UNTIL THEN FOR A BIT OF IRISH MUSIC, YOU'RE IN LUCK.

WE HAVE A SPECIAL PREVIEW FOR YOU TONIGHT.

NORAH RENDELL IS THE ARTISTIC DIRECTOR AT THE CENTER FOR IRISH MUSIC AND SHE'S BROUGHT SOME STUDENTS WITH HER TONIGHT.

THEY'LL PLAY FOR US.

FIRST OF ALL, WHAT'S THE CENTER'S MISSION?

>> THE MISSION IS TO HAND DOWN THE TRADITION TO THE NEXT GENERATION OF MUSICIANS IN OUR COMMUNITY, SO WE TIRE IRISH TRADITIONAL MUSIC.

>> Eric: QUICKLY GIVE THEM A SHOT.

WHO ARE THEY?

>> THIS IS MAR REIN, KIERAN, AND OWEN OVER THERE ON THE FIDDLE.

>> WHAT PART WILL THEY HAVE IN THE FESTIVITIES?

>> PLAYING ON THE MAIN STAGE ON SATURDAY AND SUNDAY AND DOING AN IRISH PETTING ZOO ON SATURDAY AT 11:00 a.m., AND IF YOU WANT TO TRY OUT ONE OF THESE INSTRUMENTS, COME DOWN TO THE IRISH FAIR OF MINNESOTA.

>> Eric: WHAT ELSE IS ON THE MENU?

>> AT THE FAIR?

>> Eric: YEAH.

>> WE'VE GOT HUNDREDS OF NEW CIRCUMSTANCES ANSWER PLAYING ON SEVEN DIFFERENT STAGES AND THERE'S ALSO LOTS OF CULTURAL EVENTS, SOMETHING FOR EVERYONE.

THERE ARE DOGS THAT YOU CAN PET AND THERE'S, LIKE, I THINK THEY DO SOME IRISH SPORTS, THE GAELIC FOOTBALL AND HURLING, THERE'S CRAFTS, FAMILY INTERESTS BUT ALSO BIG BANDS, JIG JAM, GOING TO BE A GREAT FESTIVAL.

IRISHFAIR.COM.

>> Eric: WHAT'S THE FIRST SONG YOU'RE GOING TO PLAY FOR US?

>> THEY ARE GOING TO PLAY TWO JIGS FOR YOU, THESE ARE TWO TUNES THAT MAUREEN LEARNED OVER IN IRELAND LAST YEAR SO THE FIRST ONE IS CALLED "I WILL IF I CAN WETLAND AND THE SECOND ONE IS CALLED Q FAREWELL TO GURCHING" >> ATTENTION AT IT, GUYS.

GOOD TO HAVE YOU.

♪♪ [FAST-PACED IRISH MUSIC] [Applause] ♪♪ >> CATHY: CAN THE STATE REACH ITS GOAL OF 20% OF CARS ON THE ROAD BEING E.V.S BY 2030?

THE EXPERTS AREN'T SURE.

THERE ARE FEDERAL TAX CREDITS FOR BUYERS AND DOLLARS ARE FLOWING IN FOR INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND THERE ARE E.V.

CHARGING STATIONS SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

REPORTER KAOMI LEE SETS OUT TO SEE WHAT IT'S LIKE TO TAKE AN >> KNEES DAYS, ELECTRIC VEHICLES, OR E.V.s, ARE ALL THE BUZZ.

SO HERE I AM RIGHT NEXT TO THE TWIN CITIES PBS OFFICES IN DOWNTOWN St. PAUL AND I'VE JUST RENTED THIS CHEVY BOLT.

THE PLAN TO DRIVE 291 MILES TO THE GUNFLINT TRAIL IN GRAND MARAIS, ON A FULL CHARGE, THIS 2023 BOLT CAN RUN FOR 247 MILLIONS.

I DOWNLOADED AND APP CALLED PLUG SHARE, IT LISTED ALL THE CHARGERS ALONG MY ROUTE.

WISH ME LUCK.

E.V.s RUN ON ELECTRICITY, MOST OF THEM USE A LITHIUM ION BATTERY.

THIS BOLT USES 29 KILOWATT HOURS PER 100 MILES.

>> WE'RE AT ALMOST 35,000 E.V.s IN MINNESOTA RIGHT NOW.

>> AND THE GOAL WOULD BE, IN 2030, 600 -- >> 600 TO 700,000 BECAUSE THAT'S 20%, YEAH.

>> HE'S ON THE FRONT LINES, PUSHING FOR E.V.

EXPANSION.

SO WHAT'S HOLDING PEOPLE BACK?

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE THINK THAT THERE'S THIS RANGE ANXIETY, THAT THEY WILL NOT BE ABLE TO COMPLETE THEIR TRIPS USING AN ELECTRIC VEHICLE BECAUSE THE ELECTRIC VEHICLE DOES OT HAVE THE RANGE WHICH IS NOT TRUE ANYMORE.

>> HE SAYS MOST NEW E.V.s TODAY HAVE A RANGE OF AT LEAST 200 MILES ON A FULL CHARGE.

>> THERE'S ANOTHER PERCEPTION THAT E.V.s ARE EXPENSIVE.

>> A CHEVY BOLT STARTS AT $27,800.

TAX CREDITS REDUCE THAT PRICE EVEN LOWER, AND IT'S CHEAPER TO CHARGE THAN UYING GAS.

BUT HERE'S WHERE TESLA STILL HAS AN ADVANTAGE.

SO I STOPPED HERE AT HINCKLEY, MINNESOTA, A NATURAL PIT STOP, AND MY CHEVY BOLT HAS ABOUT 50% CHARGE LEFT, AND I'VE DONE ABOUT 80, 90 MILES AND I FOUND THIS TESLA SUPER CHARGER STATION.

THERE WERE EIGHT SUPER CHARGERS BUT YOU WERE E.UNFORTUNATELY THEY'RE NOT YET COMPATIBLE WITH OTHER CARS.

I FOUND SOME TESLA OWNERS TO TALK TO.

>> IS RANGE ANXIETY REAL?

>> NOT FOR US.

YEAH, WE'VE NEVER COME CLOSE TO RUNNING OUT OF CHARGE AND WE DO HAVE A CHARGER AT HOME.

>> >> AND COULD YOU GET TO YOUR CABIN ON ONE FULL CHARGE?

>> YEAH, WE CAN'T GET TO THE CABIN ON A GLADDER BUT... >> FOR THE TIME BEING, IT'S IN ITS OWN CATEGORY.

MY EXPERIENCE WAS A BIT MORE HIT OR MISS.

THIS CHARGING STATION NEARBY ANDED UP BEING A REGULAR OUTLET.

IT COULD HAVE WORKED IF I HAD A FEW DAYS.

IN MOOSE LAKE, I FOUND A FAST CHARGER BUT YOU NEEDED AN APP AND AN ACCOUNT AND I COULDN'T GET IT TO TAKE MY CREDIT CARD.

STAFF AT THIS BUSINESS TOLD ME THEY REMOVE THEIR PLUGS ALTOGETHER.

MORE LOST TIME.

THAT'S SOMETHING E.V.

DRIVERS RIGHT NOW ARE RESIGNED TO.

I MET THIS DRIVER IN SQUAD ON A DIFFERENT TRIP.

>> RIGHT HERE IN St.

CLOUD, THERE'S ONLY A FEW DIFFERENT LOCATIONS THAT HAVE E.V.

CHARGERS AND IF YOU PULL IN AND THERE'S SOMEBODY SITTING THERE, USING THE CHARGER, YOU KIND OF HAVE TO EITHER LOOK TO -- TO MOVE ON TO A DIFFERENT CHARGER OR SIT AND WAIT.

>> FEDERAL INVESTMENT IS ON THE WAY.

THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION WILL SPEND ABOUT $68 MILLION IN MINNESOTA TO INSTALL D.C.

OWES FAST CHARGERS, THEY'LL GO ALONG THE INTERSTATE CORRIDORS.

PART OF A NATION-WILD BUILD-OUT OF AN E.V.

CHARGING NETWORK.

BETH IS A SUSTAINABILITY PLANNER AT MnDOT.

>> IT'S TAN A LITTLE BIT TO GET UP AND GOING AS IT'S A NEW TYPE OF PROGRAM AND WE HAD TO GET SOME AUTHORIZATION FROM THE LEGISLATURE AND -- >> AND THAT JUST HATCHED.

>> THAT JUST HAPPENED AT THE END OF MAY, SO NOW WE HAVE THAT APPROVAL AND WE'RE WORKING ON GETTING OUR SITE PAPERWORK IN PROCESS, ALL SET UP.

>> THE FIRST PHASE INCLUDES 18 FAST-CHARGING STATIONS NO MORE THAN 50 MILES APARTS.

>> WE KNOW THAT OUR CHARGING STATIONS WILL NOT MEET THE NEEDS OF ALL THE USERS.

WE KNOW THEY'RE A START.

>> SHE SAYS THEY'RE WORKING TO FILL IN THE COVERAGE GAPS.

THE STATE HAS AN E.V.

GOAL OF 20% OF NEW CARS ON THE ROAD BY 2030.

>> WE'RE CURRENTLY AT ABOUT HALF A PERCENT.

>> DO YOU EXPECT THE E.V.s TO COME ON THE MARKET AND THEN PEOPLE TO BUY THOSE FIRST OR SHOULD THE CHARGERS COME FIRST?

>> THAT'S A QUESTION THAT NO ONE KNOWS.

GOVERNMENT HOPES ITS INVESTMENT WILL SPUR ON PRIVATE COMPANIES.

ENERGY COMPANIES LIKE EFF ARE WORKING TO EVELOP NEXT-GENERATION CHARGERS AND THEY'VE WORKED WITH CITIES.

IN GRAND MARAIS, I FOUND A D.C. FAST CHARGER AND LEVEL 2 CHARGERS.

THE SET PUT THEM IN IN 2021 AND OWNS THEM.

>> WE DO SELL POWER FOR MORE THAN M WE BUY IT FOR.

IT'S NOT A HUGE REVENUE FOR S BUT WE'RE NOT LOSING MONEY ON THE CHARGING STATIONS.

>> I DID MAKE IT TO THE GUNFLINT TRAIL AND THERE'S EVEN A CHARGING STATION, ROCKWOOD LODGE, A CALIFORNIA BIN RESORT ANDOUT FITTER, ADDED TWO PUBLIC CHARGERS.

THE PLUGS COST ABOUT $800 BUT THE INSTALL WAS ARRANGED $10,000.

CARL MADSON IS ONE OF THE OWNERS.

HE SAID THE INVESTMENT JUST MADE SENSE.

>> IT'S PARTS OF YOUR SOUL, TOO, IT'S SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO DO, YOU WANT TO DO RIGHT BY THE ENVIRONMENT AND BY THE WORLD AND I THINK IT IS THE FUTURE AND I THINK WE DO HAVE A NEED O GET AWAY FROM FOSSIL FUELS AND GETTING INTO AN ELECTRICAL VEHICLE JUST SEEMED LIKE IT WOULD BE EVENTUALLY SO WHY NOT DO IT SOONER THAN LATER.

>> AND WHILE YOU'RE CHARGING, HE SAYS YOU CAN GRAB A CANOE AND PADDLE IN PARADISE.

>> >> CATHY: HERE WITH MORE ON HER ELECTRIC VEHICLE JOURNEY "ALMANAC"'S OWN KAOMI LEE.

DID THE TRIP GO AS YOU THOUGHT?

>> WELL, THERE WERE SOME SNAFUS ALONG THE WAY.

THE ONE THING I DID REALIZE, YOU KNOW, IT'S REALLY A DIFFERENT MINDSET, YOU KNOW, WITH THE GAS VEHICLE, YOU JUST JUMP IN YOUR CAR AND GO AND YOU CAN FIND A GAS STATION ALONG THE WAY AND THE EXPERIENCE IS PREDICTABLE.

WITH E.V.s, YOU REALLY HAVE TO PLAN YOUR TRIP AHEAD.

THAT'S BECAUSE OF THE STATE OF THE INFRASTRUCTURE AT THE MOMENT.

IT'S KIND OF HIT OR MISS AND SO IT IS A DIFFERENT KIND OF WAY OF THINKING ABOUT YOUR TRIP, REALLY PLANNING AHEAD IS THE WAY TO GO.

>> Eric: DID YOU GETS A SENSE OF FIRST HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE AND HOW EXPENSIVE AND CHALLENGING IT WILL BE TO GET UP TO SCALE WITH THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND SO FORTH?

>> WELL, I MEAN, I DON'T REALLY HAVE ALL THOSE ANSWERS BUT -- >> Eric: JUST FROM YOUR EXPERIENCE.

>> WELL, I THINK WE'RE A LONG WAY OFF FROM THE TARGETS THAT THE STATE HAS IN ITS STATE CLIMATE ACTION FRAMEWORK.

YOU'VE HEARD IN THE STORY THAT FOR E.V.

DRIVERS ON THE ROAD, WE'RE AT LESS THAN 1% AND THE TARGET IS -- WHAT PEOPLE WANT IN SEVEN YEARS, AND SO WE HAVE A LONG WAY TO GO AND THERE IS SOME QUESTION ON, YOU KNOW, YOU HEARD ALSO IN THE STORY, OF WHETHER THE CHARGERS COME FIRST OR THE CAR BUYERS.

>> Cathy: YOU KNOW, YOU SAID IN THE PIECE THAT YOU HAVE TO BE -- AND YOU SAID HERE TONIGHT, TOO, YOU HAVE TO BE PLANFUL, SO TO BE BLUNT, WERE YOU LEFT ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, TO BE HONEST, DIFFICULT RUN OUT OF CHARGE AND YOU'VE HEARD THIS THING CALLED RANGE ANXIETY.

I THINK I NEEDED MORE RANGE ANXIETY BECAUSE I WAS, YOU KNOW, VERY -- YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE FIFTY MILES ON YOUR CAR LEFT TO GO, ON YOUR CHARGE, AND YOU HAVE ENOUGH TO GET TO THE NEXT CHARGING STATION, IT'S UNPREDICTABLE WHETHER THAT CHARGING STATION IS GOING TO WORK, WHETHER USER ERROR, WHETHER YOU'RE GOING TO UNDERSTAND THE INTERFACE BECAUSE ALL THE DIFFERENT COMPANIES HAVE DIFFERENT KIND OF MACHINES SET UP, PAYMENT SYSTEMS, AND SO I DID MAKE IT TO GRAND MARAIS AND I WAS AT ZERO CHARGE LEFT AND I COULDN'T GET THE CHARGER TO WORK AT FIRST AND SO I THOUGHT I WAS GOING TO BE SPENDING THE IN MY CAR.

FORTUNATELY, AFTER ABOUT N HOUR OF TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO -- YOU KNOW, TRY TO WORK ON THINGS AND TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT, I WAS ABLE TO GET THE CHARGE AND I WAS ABLE TO GETS TO THE GUNFLINT TRAIL.

>> Eric: IS IT FUN TO DRIVE?

>> IT'S VERY FUN TO DRIVE AND TO BE HONEST, PERSONALLY, I THINK MY CAR NOW IS THE LAST GAS CAR THAT I WILL OWN.

I REALLY DO THINK I WILL BE CONVERTING TO E.V.

SOMEWHERE DO YOU THINK THE FUTURE BUT I THINK FOR A LOT OF DRIVERS, YOU KNOW, MnDOT MADE A STUDY A FEW YEARS AGO AND, YOU KNOW, 40% OF RESPONDENTS SAID THAT THEY'RE INTERESTED IN BUYING E.V.s BUT THE BARRIERS ARE EITHER THE COST PERCEPTION AND THE STATE OF OUR CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE NETWORK.

>> Cathy: WELL, KAOMI GREAT WORK.

>> Eric: HANDS-ON REPORTING, THAT'S FANTASTIC.

THANKS.

>> ERIC: LAST FRIDAY, THE MINNESOTA ZOO CELEBRATED THE GRAND OPENING OF THEIR NEW "TREETOP TRAIL," A RE-PURPOSING OF THE MONORAIL TRACK THAT HAD BEEN IDLE FOR A DECADE.

HERE WITH MORE ABOUT THE TRAIL THAT TAKES VISITORS HIGH ABOVE THE ANIMALS, MINNESOTA ZOO DIRECTOR JOHN FRAWLEY.

1978 I CAME DOWN FROM CHANNEL THREE IN DULUTH AND DID THE STORY ON HE OPENING OF THE MINNESOTA ZOO AND THE PERSISTENT COMPLAINT WAS, THESE ARE GREAT ANIMALS BUT THEY'RE HIDING.

DOES THIS ADDRESS THAT?

>> IT SURE DOES.

GLAD TO HAVE IT BACK, BEEN DORMANT FOR TEN YEARS AND A LOT OF MINNESOTANS RODE THIS MONORAIL BUT IN THE EN, PEOPLE WEREN'T USING IT, GOING TOO SLOW, THEY ARE NOT SEEING ANIMALS SO THE TRACK WAS DECOMMISSIONED.

SO THIS TREETOP TRAIL TOOK OFF AND WE WERE ABLE TO REPURPOSE IT AS THE LONGEST TREE TRAIL IN THE WORLD.

ONE OF THE COOLEST THINGS, IT'S NOT JUST THE ANIMALS.

WE'RE THE IF I HAVETH LARGEST ZOO IN THE COUNTRY AND A LOT OF THIS TRAIL GEESE THROUGH NATURE AND ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE TRYING TO DO MORE THAN ANYTHING IS CONNECT PEOPLE TO NATURE, THE MIDDLE OF OUR MISSION SO THIS TRAIL IS NOT JUST A GREAT TRAIL FOR SEEING ANIMALS BUT ALSO A WAY FOR LL ABILITIES, PEOPLE OF ALL COMMUNITIES AND ALL AGES TO HAVE A WALK IN THE CANOPY.

>> Cathy: IS THIS PATTERNED AFTER, I CAN'T THINK OF IT, IN NEW YORK CITY?

>> THE HIGH LINE.

WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM CREDIT.

MY WIFE AND I WENT TO THERE AND WE SAW THE HIGH LINE, WHICH IS A REPURPOSED RAILROAD TRUST TURNED INTO A WALKING TOUR.

CAME BACK, WE HIRED ENGINEERS TO MAKE SURE THAT WE COULD DO THIS, IT'S THAT SUBSTRUCTURE STRONG ENOUGH AND THE ENGINEERS WERE LIKE THIS IS GOING TO BE HERE FOR A LONG TIME.

AND THEN THE ARCHITECT AND DESIGNERS KICKED IN AND THE PROJECT GOT MOMENTUM, PEOPLE STARTED GETTING REALLY EXCITED ABOUT IT AND I THINK IT WORKED OUT PRETTY GOOD BECAUSE WE'VE HAD OVER 50,000 PEOPLE THIS LAST WEEK.

>> Cathy: REALLY, OH MY GOSH.

>> Eric: WHAT ARE THE EARLY REVIEWS.

>> SPECTACULAR.

I THINK WHAT'S SPECIAL ABOUT THIS PROJECT AND WE HEARD THIS FROM A LOT OF THE LISTENING TOURS AND PEOPLE WE TALKED TO, THEY JUST SAID LET IT BE A WALK IN THE WOODS, DON'T TRY TO OVERPRODUCE IT, DON'T MAKE IT TO BE SOMETHING IT'S NOT AND I THINK OUR TEAM AT HE ZOO, WE HIT THAT.

IT'S JUST A BEAUTIFUL CLASSIC WALK IN THE WOODS.

>> Cathy: AND IT LOOKS EVERYONE AS YOU SAY OF ALL ABILITIES CAN USE THIS, ESPECIALLY THOSE IN WHEELCHAIRS.

>> IT'S SPECIAL, I'VE DONE THE TRAIL A LOT, THIS IS -- 'M AT THE ZOO A LOT AND WE'RE SEEING ALL KINDS OF COMMUNITIES COMING OUT THAT MAYBE HAD ACCESS PROBLEMS GETTING INTO NATURE AND THEY'RE AIL TO JUST ENJOY IS THIS, NOT JUST THE TRAIL BUT IN THE TREES.

>> Cathy: WHAT WAS THE -- DO YOU HAVE ANY ISSUES WITH -- BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN SO RIDICULOUSLY HOT, LOOKS LIKE THERE IS NOT A LOT OF SHADE BECAUSE YOU'RE ABOVE THE TREE TOPS.

ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT?

>> THERE IS A NICE BREEZE UP THERE, AND A LOT OF THE -- BELIEVE IT OR NOT, A LOT OF THE TRAIL HAS SHADE.

IT GOES RIGHT INTO SOME BEAUTIFUL CANOPY SO PEOPLE ARE ABLE IS TO FIND SHADE FROM TREES ALONG THE TRAIL.

IT'S 1.TWO MILES SO THERE IT IS A LOTS OF TREES.

>> Eric: FUNDING MIX, HOW DID YOU PAY FOR THIS?

>> WEDNESDAY AN AMAZING ONOR THAT STEPPED UP BUT WE ERE ABLE TO GET 11 MILLION OF BONDING FROM THE STATE OF MINNESOTA BUT OVER 28 MILLION PRIVATELY SO MINNESOTA STEPPED UP.

THEY WANTED THIS TRAIL AND A LOT OF ORGANIZATIONS MADE THIS POSSIBLE.

>> Eric: DO YOU STICK PEOPLE WITH A SEPARATE FEE ONCE THEY'RE IN THE ZOO?

>> NO, THIS IS FREE, ONCE YOU GET IN THE ZOO, IT'S PARTS OF THE EXPERIENCE OF THE MINNESOTA ZOO AND I THINK ONE OF THE THINGS WE'RE PROUD OF AT THE ZOO IS ACCESS TO -- YOU DO QUALIFY FOR GENERAL ASSISTANCE WITH THE STATE OF MINNESOTA, YOU COME TO THE MINNESOTA ZOO FOR FREE SO IT'S FREE FOR THOSE PEOPLE THAT NEEDS IT TO BE FREE.

>> Cathy: DO YOU THINK THIS WILL BOOST ATTENDANCE POST-COVID?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WE'RE A GREAT ZOO AND THE CONNECTION TO THAT IT BUT WE'RE TRYING TO BE MORE THAN ZOO, TRYING TO REACH ALL AUDIENCES, ALL COMMUNITIES AND I THINK THIS TRAIL IS SOMETHING EVERYBODY'S INTERESTED IN CHECKING OUT.

>> Eric: THANKS FOR COMING OVER AND TELLING US ABOUT IT.

SOUNDS EXCITING.

>> YEAH, COME ON OUT.

>> Cathy: ALL RIGHT.

THANKS.

>> Eric: SOUNDS EXCITING.

>> CATHY: FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP APPEARED IN A WASHINGTON, D.C. FEDERAL COURTROOM THURSDAY AND PLED NOT GUILTY TO CHARGES THAT HE TRIED TO OVERTURN THE 2020 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION RESULTS.

MEANWHILE, ON TUESDAY, THE FIRST NEW YORK TIMES/SIENNA POLL IN THE 2024 PRESIDENTIAL RACE SHOWED TRUMP IN A VIRTUAL TIE WITH CURRENT PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN.

HERE TO HELP US SORT THIS ALL OUT, DAVID SCHULTZ TEACHES POLITICAL SCIENCE STUDENTS AT HAMLINE UNIVERSITY, AS WELL AS LAW STUDENTS AT THE U OF M. THE U OF M'S HUMPHREY SCHOOL IS WHERE LARRY JACOBS TEACHES.

PROFESSOR JACOBS, THIS THIRD INDICTMENT IS THE MOST SERIOUS OF THE ONES THAT HAVE BEEN HANDED DOWN AGAINST THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

WHAT DO YOU THINK OF THE FORMER PRESIDENT'S DEFENSE?

>> YOU KNOW, IN DEFENSE -- IF YOU WERE A LAWYER AND YOU WERE GOING TO BECOME A DEFENSE ATTORNEY, THERE ARE A NUMBER OF STRATEGIES.

ONE IS CALLED DISTRACTION.

IT'S LIKE LOOK OVER HERE AND THE DISTRACTION STRATEGY IS, REPUBLICANS ARE ARGUING, THIS IS A FREE SPEECH ISSUE.

I DON'T READ IT THAT WAY AT ALL.

I THINK IT'S A VERY SIMPLE CASE OF DONALD TRUMP TRYING TO TAMPER REQUEST AND QUITE FRAUDULENT ELECTIONORS WHO WOULD BEING TO WASHINGTON AND CLAIM TO BE REFLECTING STATE -- AND THEN DONALD TRUMP'S REPEATED EFFORTS TO PRESSURE THE VICE PRESIDENT PENCE TO ENGAGE IN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY AND REFUSING TO COUNT AND CERTIFY THE BALLOTS ON JANUARY 6th.

SO THIS WAS -- THAT'S THE CORE OF THE CASE AND I THINK THE REPUBLICAN TALKING POINTS ARE TRYING TO MOVE AWAY FROM IT.

IT LOOKS LIKE A PRETTY DEVASTATING AND PRETTY CLEAR CASE.

>> Cathy: YOU WERE SHAKING YOUR HEAD NO IN TERMS OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT DEFENSE.

>> NO, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, I AGREE WITH LARRY, IF YOU READS THE 45-TEENAGE INDICTMENT, NOT A SINGLE THING REFERRED TO THE SPEECH OR ANYTHING THAT HE DID ON JANUARY 6th AND NOTHING AT ALL TALKS ABOUT, LET US SAY, ANY ADVOCACY HE MADE.

IN FACT, THE CRIMINAL COMPLAINT GOES OUT OF THE WAY TO SAY THAT AFTER HE KNEW, AFTER HE WAS REPEATEDLY TOLD THAT HE HAD LOST THE ELECTION AND HE ACTUALLY AT SOME POINT ACKNOWLEDGES IT, HE NOW TALKS ABOUT HOW HE TAKES ACTION TO TRY TO BASICALLY OVERTURN THE ELECTION.

ACTION IS NOT PROTECTED UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT.

IN A CASE LIKE THIS, IN YOU LOOK AT THE CHARGES HERE, THEY ARE INCREDIBLY SERIOUS.

THIS IS BASICALLY ATTEMPTING TO OVERTHROW A DEMOCRATLY ELECTED ELECTION.

IT DOESN'T GET ANY MORE SERIOUS THAN THAT.

ONE OF MY STUDENTS SAID TO ME, WHY ISN'T THIS TREASON?

IT'S BORDERLINE ON THE CHARGES HERE OF TREASON.

>> Eric: IS THERE A CHANCE OF A PLEA BARGAIN OR CONSOLIDATION OF THE CASES?

ON CALENDAR, HE'S A CANDIDATE FOR REELECTION, HOW WILL THIS FIT INTO THE CALENDAR?

>> IN TERMS OF, IS THERE A CHANCE, YEAH, THERE IS ALWAYS A CHANCE.

I DON'T THINK IT'S LIKELY.

IN TERMS OF THE CALENDAR, THIS IS THE CALENDAR, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE MORE THAN A YEAR OF VERY SERIOUS COURT CASES AND IN MY VIEW, WE'VE HAD TWO THREATS TO OUR DEMOCRACY.

FIRST WAS IN JANUARY 6th, THE NEXT WILL BE COMING.

RIGHT NOW WE'RE ABSORBED WITH THE DETAILS OF THE CASE BUT AS WE MOVE INTO THE REPUBLICAN DEBATES AND THE PRIMARIES AND CAUCUS, WE'RE GOING TO SEE A FULL-ON, ALMOST UNIFIED ATTACK ON OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM, WHICH DONALD TRUMP HAS SAID HAS BEEN WEAPONIZED AGAINST HIM.

SO THIS IS A VERY SIGNIFICANT THREAT TO THE RULE OF LAW AND THAT WE'VE ALL TAKEN FOR GRANTED.

>> IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY DIFFICULT TO ONSOLIDATE THE CASES BECAUSE WE'RE LOOKING AT VERY DIFFERENT ISSUES, YOU KNOW, ONE IS IN NEW YORK, WHICH IS BUSINESS FRAUDS.

WE HAVE THE FLORIDA ONE WHICH IS ABOUT ILLEGALLY OBTAINING GOVERNMENT DOCUMENTS.

THIS IS ABOUT TRYING TO OVERTURN AN ELECTION, AND THEN MOST OF US ARE BETTING, BEFORE THE END OF THE MONTH, ANOTHER INDICTMENT, YOU KNOW, IN FULTON COUNTY.

THE FACT PATTERNS ARE SO DIFFERENT AND THE ISSUES SO DIFFERENT, YOU REALLY CAN'T CONSOLIDATE THEM.

THE OTHER THING I WAS GOING TO MENTION, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT CALENDAR.

THINK ABOUT HOW HE'S GOT TO PARSE HIS TIME BETWEEN COURT APPEARANCES VERSUS CAMPAIGNING AND I THINK I SAW SOMETHING RECENTLY THAT SAID HE'S BLOWN THROUGH, WHAT, $43 MILLAR IN CAMPAIGN FUNDS THAT ARE GOING INTO COURT EXPENSES AT THIS POINT.

HE'S DRAINING HIS CAMPAIGN TO PAY FOR HIS LEGAL DEFENSE.

>> Eric: MOST OF THE OTHER REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES FOR PRESIDENT HAVE RUSHED TO HIS DEFENSE, IN THIS CASE, IS THAT A FRUITFUL STRATEGY FOR KNOCKING HIM OFF OR -- >> NO, I THINK THIS IS JUST A REALITY.

REMEMBER LIZ CHENEY?

AND THEN WE SEE MIKE PERSONS, YOU KNOW, IF YOU DEFY DONALD TRUMP, GIVEN THE STRENGTH OF HIS SUPPORT, AND THE FEAR VENCY OF HIS REPORT, AMONG THE PRIMARY VOTERS, IT'S ABOUT SURVIVAL.

SO I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE A UNIFIED FRONT.

THAT'S ONE OF MY CONCERNS ABOUT THE SECONDS THREAT TO OUR DEMOCRACY TO HAVE REPUBLICAN PARTY'S MAIN CANDIDATES FOR PRESIDENT UNIFYING AN ATTACK ON OUR LEGAL SYSTEM, THAT SHOULD NOT BE A PARTISAN ISSUE.

IT SHOULD BE -- WE SHOULD MOVE PAST IT AND I THINK THIS IS SERIOUS ISSUE.

>> Eric: BUT WITH THE HUNTER BIDEN SITUATION SEPARATELY, AREN'T A LOT OF VOTERS GOING TO SAY HEY'RE ALL CROOKED AND -- >> THIS IS THE INTERESTING QUESTION NOW, TO WHAT EXTENT ARE MULTIPLE TRUMP INDICTMENTS AND MULL HIM PLACES NOW GETTING TO BE BACKGROUND NOISE FOR MANY PEOPLE AND NOW THROW SORT OF THE HUNTER BIDEN STUFF IN, YOU SORT OF WONDER AT SOME POINT, ARE PEOPLE GOING TO KIND OF GLAZE OVER AND JUST SORT OF SAY, I'M TRYING TO THINK OF HE RIGHT ANALOGY HERE.

IS THIS HATFIELD VERSUS McCOYS, IS THIS, WHAT, THE OSBORNS VERSUS THE KARDASHIANS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS, YOU SEE WHAT I'M GETTING AT BUT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE, IT'S STARTING TO BLUR IN TERMS OF WE'VE GOT TWO REALLY FLAWED CANDIDATES IN FLAWED FAMILIES BUT I GOT TO WORRY ABOUT OTHER STUFF.

>> Cathy: SO THAT'S THIS POLL, WHICH I KNOW YOU SAW, BOTH BIDEN-TRUMP ARE NECK AND NECK.

WHEN IT COMES TO, YOU KNOW, WORRIES ABOUT THE CANDIDATES, WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF DEAN PHILLIPS POSSIBLY THINKING ABOUT CHALLENGING JOE BIDEN?

>> I HAVE A LOT OF RESPECTS NOR CONGRESSMAN PHILLIPS, I'VE KNOWN HIM FOR QUITE A WHILE.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS.

YOU KNOW, THE RIMARY VOTERS TEND TO BE THE MOST LIBERAL AND ESPECIALLY THE MOST CONSERVATIVE.

THIS IS NOT DEAN PHILLIPS' PLACE.

HE IS A DEAL-MAKER, WILLING TO WORK ACROSS THE AISLE.

THERE IS NOT A PATH FOR HIM IN THE PRIMARIES SO YOU WONDER, IS THIS ACTUALLY HELPFUL OR IS THIS ABOUT DEAN PHILLIPS BUILDING UP HIS RESUMÉ TO ENHANCE HIS POSITION IN CONGRESS OR PERHAPS POSITION HIMSELF IF THERE WERE AN OWNING FOR U.S. SENATE.

I DON'T THINK THIS MAKES POLITICAL SENSE.

I'M NOT SURE WHY HE'S DOING IT.

>> Eric: DON'T THINKING THE OTHER DEMOCRATS INCLUDING DEAN PHILLIPS ARE PREPARING FOR KIND OF A JUST IN CASE CAMPAIGN?

>> I THINK THEY ARE BUT, STILL, THIS IS AN INCREDIBLE LONG SHOT IN TERMS OF HIM -- I MEAN, TOKATA PUT -- SECOND TERM, SECOND TERM MEMBER OF CONGRESS, YOU KNOW, TO BEING A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE, I MEAN, IF I'M THINKING OF OTHER PEOPLE WHO ARE OUT THERE AHEAD OF HIM, GRETCHEN WHITMERE IN MICHIGAN, OTHER POSSIBILITIES.

I'LL PROBABLY SAY NOW FOR THE 100TH STEAM BETWEEN NOW AND NOVEMBER, 2024, NO ATTER WHAT WE THINK ABOUT THE NATIONAL POLLS, REMEMBER, IT'S THE RACE TO 270 AND IT'S ALL ABOUT THE SWING STATES, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE FACT THAT IT'S GOING TO BE ABOUT SIX TATES OR SO THAT ARE GOING TO DECIDE THE ELECTION AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT MEANS IN THE NATIONAL POLLS, I DON'T REALLY CARE: IT'S ABOUT WHAT THE POLLS ARE IN THOSE STATES?

>> Eric: SHUT?

DOWN IN SEPTEMBER?

>> PROBABLY.

>> >> Eric: HOW DOES THAT AFFECT THINGS?

>> YOU CAN SEE DONALD TRUMP PLAYING OINT, HE'S CONSTANTLY TALKING ABOUT THE CESS POOL IN WASHINGTON AND THE ESSENTIAL OF THE COUNTRY IS OFF IN THE WRONG DIRECTION.

IT'S TODAYER FOR DONALD TRUMP'S POPULOUS CAMPAIGN.

>> Eric: IS THIS SHATTERING CONVENTIONAL POLITICAL SCIENCE WISDOM ON THIS, THIS CYCLE?

>> WE'LL SEE.

IT COULD BE, BUT IT COULD ALSO BE A CASE WHERE THERE IS A PENALTY FOR DONALD TRUMP'S BEHAVIOR AND SOME OF THE POLLS SUGGEST THAT MAYBE SIX OUT OF TEN VOTERS ARE UP FOR GRABS.

I'M REALLY QUITE CONCERNED ABOUT WHAT COULD BE LAW-BREAKING BY HIM.

IF THE ECONOMY IS IMPROVING, JOE BIDEN MATE GET A BUMP.

I THINK IT'S AN OPEN QUESTION BUT CERTAINLY WANT TO ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO TAKE POLITICAL SCIENCE COURSES.

>> Cathy: OF COURSE YOU DO.

[Laughter] >> Eric: MORE TO COME FROM YOU FELLAS.

WE'RE JUST GETTING STARTED.

>> Cathy: GOOD TO SEE YA.

♪♪ >> CATHY: LET'S JUMP RIGHT IN TO THE HISTORY SECTION OF TONIGHT'S SHOW.

LAST WEEK WE DUG IN TO THE MINNESOTA INVENTION FILE.

WE WERE LOOKING FOR A NEW PRODUCT THAT WAS CREATED BY A MINNESOTA COMPANY IN RESPONSE TO A DISCOVERY MADE DURING WORLD WAR II.

THE FIRST VERSION WAS INTRODUCED IN 1947.

IT MARKED THE BEGINNING OF A WHOLE NEW INDUSTRY.

OUR QUESTION TO YOU... WHAT WAS INVENTED BY A MINNESOTA COMPANY IN 1947 IN RESPONSE TO A DISCOVERY MADE DURING WORLD WAR II?

WE START, AS ALWAYS, WITH A QUARTET OF WRONG ANSWERS.

>> CATHY: NOPE, NOPE, NOPE, AND NOPE.

THOUGH THE PRODUCERS MAY LOOK INTO SOME OF THESE INVENTIONS FOR FUTURE INDEX FILE EFFORTS.

FOR THIS WEEK'S CORRECT ANSWER, WE TURN TO RON FROM EAGAN.

>> CATHY: YES!

3M AUDIO TAPE IS THE INVENTION WE SOUGHT.

AS RON NOTED, DURING WORLD WAR II, THE U.S. MILITARY DISCOVERED GERMANS WERE RECORDING AUDIO ON SOMETHING CALLED A MAGNETOPHONE.

ONE OF THE DEVICES WAS BROUGHT TO THE U.S. 3M WAS ENLISTED TO CREATE TAPE TO USE, AND THE MAGNETIC AUDIO TAPE INDUSTRY WAS BORN.

BING CROSBY WAS THE FIRST U.S. RADIO STAR TO PRE-RECORD HIS SHOW, AND HE DID IT WITH 3M TAPE IN 1947.

THOSE BIG REEL TO REEL TAPE MACHINES.

THANKS TO 3M FOR THIS FINE-LOOKING PHOTO.

BEFORE WE GO, HAPPY 97 BIRTHDAY TO BETTY ESKOLA.

WE'RE GOING TO HONOR THIS FINNISH GALLON WITH OPPORTUNITIES BY STUDENTS FROM THE CENTER OF IRISH MUSIC.

DON'T FORGET TO CHECK OUT THE IRISH FAIR OF MINNESOTA NEXT WEEKEND ON HARRIET ISLAND HERE IN ST. PAUL.

SEE YA LATER.

♪♪ [FAST-PACED IRISH MUSIC] CAPTIONED BY: VERITEXT/PARADIGM CAPTIONING WWW.VERITEXT.COM "A LMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE BY MEMBERS OF THIS PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION.

SUPPORT IS ALSO PROVIDED BY... GREAT RIVER ENERGY: PROVIDING WHOLESALE POWER TO 27 MINNESOTA ELECTRIC COOPERATIVES.

DELTA DENTAL OF MINNESOTA FOUNDATION: IMPROVING ORAL HEALTH WHILE ADVANCING SOCIAL EQUITIES.

DELTADENTALMN.ORG/TPT.

AND EDUCATION MINNESOTA: THE VOICE FOR PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS AND STUDENTS THROUGHOUT THE STATE.

MORE AT EDUCATIONMINNESOTA.ORG.

ONE GREATER MINNESOTA REPORTING ON "ALMANAC" IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE OTTO BREMER TRUST, WHOSE MISSION IS INVESTING IN PEOPLE, PLACES AND OPPORTUNITIES IN OUR REGION.

"ALMANAC" IS A PRODUCTION OF TWIN CITIES PBS FOR THE STATIONS OF MINNESOTA PUBLIC TELEVISION ASSOCIATION.

CLEAR