♪ ♪ ♪ <Gavin> Welcome to This Week in South Carolina.

I'm Gavin Jackson.

students across the state are back in school, and we're joined by outgoing Superintendent of Education Molly Spearman to discuss the major funding and policy decisions made by the General Assembly and what to expect this school year.

Superintendent Spearman, welcome back to this week in South Carolina, our first in studio show since the pandemic.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Thanks Gavin.

It's great to be here, live and in person.

<Gavin> Well, school is also back in person, I want to talk to you about the school year the 2022 to 2023 school year.

This is your last year as superintendent of education.

We'll get to that in a minute, but I just want to ask you how schools are doing right now.

COVID-19 has kind of gotten to an endemic phase almost.

What's it like?

Are we back to normal?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Well, so far, so good.

I was over in my hometown, Saluda, with school opening and huge excitement people are just so happy to be back.

Football season's going on.

The kids...are excited.

Families are certainly excited to have their children back in school.

So, I think that we're at a point where schools will be able to manage COVID at the local level, to make the choices that they need to make and a responsibility for families.

You know, if your child's sick, stay home.

Otherwise, we're going to be moving on just as normal.

<Gavin> And vaccines became more and more available for school aged students, children.

Is that ever going to get to a point where we're going to have required immunizations?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> I don't think so.

I really don't think that we'll do that.

Of course, we have the normal vaccine requirements for students that have been there for years, and those will stay in place, but I see no move to a requirement on the COVID vaccine.

<Gavin> And there's no mask requirements, either.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> No mask requirements.

Students, even, you know, are not required to quarantine.

There's no contact tracing going on.

Obviously, if you're sick, running a fever, you need to stay home, but other than that, it should be a pretty normal year.

<Gavin> That's good to hear, especially after the past two years, but superintendent, when we look at the past two years, we talked about lessons learned a lot of things changed.

There was a lot of growing pains, obviously, what were some of those big lessons, some big takeaways that you guys look at that you're, you know, you can probably look at, maybe obviously you worked through, but maybe some that have been applied going forward?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Well, I think the number one thing that we that we knew, but this is certainly confirmed.

It is that students, almost all students, particularly those who are struggling need to be in school with a teacher working with them one on one, face to face.

So, having children in school is so important.

I think the whole community and state, world now, realizes that the public school system is so intertwined into all facets of our lives.

So, when schools closed, businesses suffered.

So, we have to work together, and that's why it's so important for us to keep our schools going not just for the learning, but for that whole community involvement that we have.

It caused us to work more closely together.

One of the great successes has been our broadband expansion, that bringing access to students all over South Carolina, where previously, it was difficult to get people to come to the table.

It was some turf battles going on between the providers, but that all has been washed away.

The other thing that has really helped us is the federal relief funding that came down, we were able to provide the sanitary, the cleaning, the supplies that all the schools need, but beyond that, we've been able to hire tutors.

One of the things that we've done at the agency is to put a lot of our funding into an instruction hub, which will be available.

It's available this year now for all teachers, every teacher, whether they're in the largest district or the smallest district to access high quality instructional materials, and that has been a wish for many years, and it was through the federal funding that we were able to do that, and I could go on and on about all the things that have happened, but I think we're all more focused, laser focused, and are learning a lot and implementing a lot about accelerated learning.

How do you bring those students who struggle?

How do we really make that happen even faster, that they regain and are exposed to more learning within one school year?

>> And a big finding that I just heard of, from this report, this COVID debrief, basically from the South Carolina Institute of Medicine and Public Health.

They found that schools should not close in the future, should there be another outbreak like that?

So, it's kind of what you're talking about.

They're finding that hybrid infrastructure when it needs to be.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Yes, yes, and you know, looking back on it, Should we have closed that Sunday afternoon?

I would say probably not, but at the time, we did not know, and there was public outcry for us to close.

Why was it taking us so long?

So, we've learned...a lot, and I appreciate the patience of the parents and communities, because I hope they understand that while we were doing the very best we could do at the time with the knowledge, we were relying on health experts to help us through that, and we did try to keep the well-being of the student at the height of the decisions that were made.

Going back now, we probably would have reacted a little differently, but those are lessons learned.

<Gavin> I mean, It was a global pandemic.

We had never seen something like that.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> That's right.

>> You knew what you knew at the time we all did, so, but looking at that superintendent, How are children performing right now?

What are the assessments looking like, the end of the year assessment, perhaps, that they just had done?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Well, it's not good, but I will say this, generally speaking, the students who were A and B students did okay, and they were able to carry on whether they were in school or at home, virtually, they had the support that they needed.

Our C students and below are the ones who really struggled, and we are beginning now with midterm assessments to see that they are making gains, not as fast as we need them to do, but we are laser focused on that.

I would say our lower performing students, while some of them were are already half a year to a year behind, add another four to five months behind for them.

So, it is alarming.

It's not shocking, but it is something that we have to focus on, and I think it's more time on task, and it's more high quality expectations for these students and really figuring out what are the priority standards that they have to learn.

You can't teach everything, but we have to laser focus in on what are those priority standards in mathematics, reading that they have.

<Gavin> Yeah, because that's been a big focus, of course, since last year too, when you started seeing those, those students really falling behind.

So, how are you?

I mean, have we made accomplishments?

It sounds like it's still kind of... <Supt.

Molly Spearman> Yes, we're seeing in the mid, in the mid-term assessments and the end of year assessments, we are beginning to see some gains, but we, they have not caught back up to the level where they need to be.

So, they're well identified.

Teachers at the school know exactly where the students are, and they are, they have hired extra tutors.

They're giving extra time on tests, smaller groups, whatever method that school can accomplish, they're doing that with their students now, and we need parents to help us at home, and we need the after-school programs, which we have funded many of those to really be high quality to make use of every minute we have with the student.

<Gavin> Superintendent, does that tie into that federal money you're talking about too, in terms of getting the targeted resources?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Yes, and we have three pots of that funding.

One pot had to be spent by this September, next...the year 23, and then the final money has to be spent by September of 24.

So, you will see this support going on for the next two years?

<Gavin> Are you seeing some innovative initiatives, I guess from some of these school districts with this federal money in terms of, you know, either catching kids up, or implementing new technology?

I mean, you're talking about that, that centralized instructional database, essentially, but are we seeing some novel changes when it comes to instruction?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Well, I think more and more technology being used, the access where students we have tutoring available 24/7 through a program that the state is paying for called tutor.com.

Any child can access that with a live person assisting them 24 hours a day.

So, technology is helping us be able to deliver the support that the students need.

<Gavin> When we look at, not just federal funding, but state funding, you guys had a pretty big year.

The budget was massive this past year, we had a lot of, you know, growth in the budget.

We had a lot of one time dollars, which can get a lot of capital investments and the like.

Tell us what you guys got out of the budget.

I know there were teacher pay raises.

We saw a per pupil funding increase.

You even saw a re-organization of funding streams for schools.

Tell us about that.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> It was a big year and the one I'm most proud of, Well, there's two things that I'm really, really proud of that were in the budget this year.

When I started, Gavin, in 2015, the starting pay for teachers that the state sent to the districts, now most districts supplement this, but the starting pay for first year teachers was $29,500.

This year is $40,000.

That's a 35% increase in eight years.

I think that's phenomenal, and I really appreciate the General Assembly being devoted to that and working with me on that.

The other thing that I am so proud of I have been crying for out to, for support for the rural districts in their facilities.

You know, in South Carolina building schools, keeping up your buildings all falls to the local.

There used to be a little money and there was a bond bill back 20 some odd years ago, but we have not given state support for that, and when I mill of tax in Charleston is over $2 million, and a mill of tax, and Allendale is $20,000, to do any kind of school renovation or build a new building, is just, not even, in their dreams that they could do that.

So, the legislature came through last year, and again this year with facility funding $140 million dollars, both years going to the poorest and the neediest districts in the state, and they gave, me, as state superintendent the responsibility to decide who to come up with the formula, which we did, and we have been allocating that funding, and first was Lee County, and you may have reported that, you know, over in Lee, they have three elementary schools, one building, one side, the roof fell in, and they had to move children to the other side.

So, they're getting around $40-$42 million now, to build a new elementary school.

They'll consolidate all three schools into one.

Could never have done that without state support that's happening in Clarendon and all over the state, Saluda, Abbeville, Hampton, and other announcements that will be coming.

So, it's a dream of mine, and I think it really goes back to the Abbeville lawsuit, that we are really helping those districts who cannot help themselves who have really good clean buildings, but they're just old and do not meet the safety and technology needs of today.

<Gavin> I mean, we know that, you know, it's not just a building that makes an education, but do you think it's going to make a big difference in terms of how these children learn?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Well, all you have to do is walk through, okay, I think some folks need to get off the interstate, and drive through the other part of South Carolina and really see it and feel it.

When you see the beautiful buildings that we have in some areas of the state, you see that pride in education, and that's what the teachers feel, the students feel the community feels, and then you go into an old, dilapidated building where it's clean.

And yes, you can learn there, but there's something about the pride in having something fresh and new to show the commitment that we have to education for every student in South Carolina no matter where they live.

>> And then also this the change of how the funding is going too.

Is that something that was a long time coming as well?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Well, the new formula, yes, we've all talked about it.

I know, throughout my career, we've worked on this to try to come up with something that would be easier to understand, and very fair to everyone.

The new formula is in place.

It is streamlined, it is based on a student-teacher ratio.

We are, we're learning and working out all the glitches now that we're in the first year of implementation.

So, I think it's going to be a really good thing, and will help move us forward.

It gives more responsibility to the local districts, gives them more flexibility, which they've been asking for a long time.

So, now we need to see how they're going to handle it, and it's going to take them being very dedicated to keep students first, teachers to support their teachers as they should.

>> Superintendent, just to go back to teacher pay raises getting to that $40,000 level and of course, step increases too, for current teachers, what more needs to be done to retain them?

Obviously, that's been a big issue, and what's the current vacancy situation looking like in South Carolina schools right now?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Well, you're absolutely right, and we've done a lot too, over the last eight years, I've been in office working with the General Assembly that we've added steps to the...salary ladder, so that teachers as they work longer will continue to get an increase.

We've also had 2%, 3%, I think about seven or 8% total, over the last few years to the entire salary schedule.

So, it is.

Money is important.

When a teacher can leave the classroom and go work at a fast food restaurant, and make more now.

I think most teachers realize that it is not just about the money, and but they do need to make a fair living for their family.

So, it's about the impact that they make.

So, we'll continue even as we're preparing and even though I won't be at the General Assembly in January, when they come back to work, I do have to submit a budget to them, and we're asking again for another increase.

It's a little different now.

It won't be just a percentage increase in the new formula, but we're asking for $75 million to be put into the new budget toward teacher salaries.

And, I've spoken with the leaders.

Some of the leaders are ready, and I know they're interested in doing that.

I can't say what the exact amount will be, but I know that they're committed to continually - We can't it's not just a one year thing, because North Carolina, Georgia, the other states are working on it too, and we want to be at the top of the southeast and really at the national average.

So, we got a little work to keep doing.

>> Especially in this job market too.

You have to compete to keep them.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> So, right.

>> Superintendent, what's it looking like right now in terms of vacancies in the state?

How do you how do you mitigate that?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Well, we're still waiting to get the exact numbers on how many.

There are districts who have everything filled.

And then there are others who are still looking for folks, having to be creative in how they staff their school.

I don't have the exact number yet, but I'm sure there'll be several 100 vacancies are that that are there, and we have to remember, South Carolina is a growing state, more students coming, our charter movement is growing, but that means there's those are teacher positions too, that have to be filled.

So, it's a huge requirement, and with the job market, as it is right now, nationally, and in South Carolina, people have their pick where they want to go work, and so, it whenever we have low unemployment, like we do now, too, there's always an issue with teachers, teacher shortages.

So, we've got to continue to show support.

I think that's the main thing that teachers just want to know that we now more than ever, that we appreciate them, we care for them, and we're listening to them, giving them opportunities to be involved in leadership decisions at the school and doing, helping them unencumber time.

That was a bill that passed this year.

I mean, so true.

They need a break during the day.

Now, many of them do get a break, but there still are some who do not get a break and this new law that goes into effect next year, that has to happen, at least 30 minutes, I believe is the number that says that they have to have of unencumbered time.

So, just things like that, that seems so little, <Gavin> It's a matter of being heard, essentially.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> It's a matter of being heard and showing that type of support in a district at the local level and state level means the world to our teachers.

>> Yeah, I guess just, talking about that, of course, you walked right into that, 30 minutes.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Good.

>> But, when we switched from, you know, from that aspect of schools to safety, you know, we saw that horrible shooting in Texas at Uvalde, Are our schoola safe?

Do you know if we would ever face a similar situation where police - I don't know, if you've talked to police in the state, if they would ever wait in a situation like that, or where they go right in and handle it?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Well, a couple of things.

I will say that our schools are prepared for that horrible thing.

They do drills.

They have hardened, We've given money to harden the entrances to do that things.

In fact, school safety, we're just announcing I approved a memo to go out to districts this week of safety training that will be go that will be going on September and October, constantly learning from horrible mistakes, like those in Uvalde, to do better.

Now, when that did happen, I asked that question because we have a few larger school districts that do have their own security force.

What would happen in for instance up in Greenville?

I asked.

That would not ever happen in South Carolina, this confusion about who's in charge, even though a local district might have their own security force, the entity, the county, or the city that the school is located in, automatically is in charge.

So, I'm happy that we, that part is already been worked out.

<Gavin> ...chain of command.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Yeah, and I'm just really impressed with our folks over at SLED, our district safety leaders.

We have organized even more over the last few years.

We have a roundtable group now of safety directors and folks who come in quarterly during the year to meet to always be upgrading.

This past summer, we reviewed our safety checklist plans.

Schools reviewed their plans.

Those are coming into us now for review.

So, it's a continuation.

We continue to learn the new equipment.

New technology comes out, but I just have real strong confidence in Chief Kiel at SLED, and our district safety directors that they are well prepared.

Human beings still make mistakes.

So, you know, you can't ever say 100%, but I will tell you that we're as prepared I believe as we can be for any horrible thing that might happen.

>> And of course, we've seen more SRO funding as well.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> That's right.

Thank you for reminding me of that.

The governor has taken that as one of his agenda items, and yes, there's sufficient funding there to hire.

The problem is finding the people just there's a shortage in law enforcement as well.

So, some districts work with private security firms.

However, they can man their schools, but the funding is there to do, for that support.

<Gavin> As well as mental health counselors, too.

We know that's another side of this coin, but that's also a difficult challenge to get.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> It really is, and again, I'll give hats off to Governor McMaster because he called for and appointed Robbie Kerr over the ending of the last school year to look at our delivery of mental health services across the state in schools.

We met with the school superintendents to get their ideas and now more authority, more money is the number one thing because we were not paying these mental health counselors enough.

The reimbursement rate has been increased, so schools can get and hire better people and more authority at the local level for them to hire.

So, I think it's going to take a while for that.

That transition is happening now, but I think it will mean better and more services available to students at the local level.

<Gavin> Superintendent, we have five minutes left.

We've already talked about so much, but we have so much more to talk about including another bill that got passed, the controversial bill that got passed this past year, the Save Women's Sports Act, and with transgender girls playing on sports teams, up through high school.

Was this law necessary in your opinion?

There were already procedures in place to kind of handle these issues?

Do you think it accomplishes anything?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Well, you know, I spoke out on this issue, and let me be clear, I think it is an issue that we have to look at very carefully, because we don't want one student to have a physical advantage, an unfair physical advantage over another student.

So, my position on it though, however, was we only had a few students, transgender students to apply.

The South Carolina High School League had put in place a plan to review that with a medical team to decide, does this student - is this something that's just happening now where you- there really definitely is an unfair advantage?

Or is this something that happened long ago, and probably most folks didn't even realize the child was transgender?

I felt like it needed to be handled on a case by case basis rather than just one legislative issue that - or rule that everybody had to follow under.

So, I could have lived with it the way it is, I think we're working now, and we'll just have to see how it plays out.

>> Another controversial bill that was discussed, but did not pass dealt with critical race theory.

It's not an issue that's taught in South Carolina schools, K through 12 schools, but it consumed a lot of time.

There's big hearings on it.

Can you tell us about that?

Do lawmakers need to get involved in this curriculum down to this level?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Well, they believe that they do.

I think I testified again, that I think it's we don't teach it.

We don't want ideologies to play into effect in our classrooms of the state.

We have to be very, very careful, and we have to make sure teachers understand what they should say, not say.

We want to teach the truth.

We want the good and the bad of history or whatever it may be, but we certainly don't want to make any child feel guilty or that they were responsible, and I think that's where this issue comes into play.

So, I have testified over and over these - Critical race theory is not taught in our standards.

It won't be.

We are reviewing our textbooks and materials more closely than ever.

So, I think our local schools can handle it, and we can handle it through guidance, but our teachers definitely need some guidance now, because they're very confused about what they can and cannot say.

So, if that takes some legislation to help with that, I can support that, but I do think it's our responsibility, and we are working on that guidance right now.

<Gavin> A divisive issue that we saw across the country, but also, we're seeing more and more divisive moments at school board meetings too, and there was a non-binding question on the June primary ballot for the Republican ballot, asking if that we should have partisan elections at school boards.

Do you think that we should be doing that?

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> No, I do not.

I do not, and I think we need to come together not only just around education, but on other issues.

The partisanship has not brought us better policy, and I think folks need to calm down often.

I think we all choose our TV stations that we'd like to watch, because they say things that we agree with, but we need to realize that look, our educators are dedicated folks.

They're doing this because they love kids, and we need to get back to that supporting and a trust with them rather than questioning everything.

So, the incivility I'm very concerned about, I think in our schools, we really do need to be helping our students learn to love each other, respect each other, value each other, and listen and realize that yeah, we may not, disagree on things, but we can do it in a civil way.

So, I think that's a part of our responsibility at school to help prepare future citizens of our state.

>> Superintendent, we barely have a minute left, I want to ask you to wrap up your legacy in about 30 seconds.

You were a school teacher.

You were in the Statehouse.

You were a superintendent for two terms.

What do you see your legacy being especially in the era of COVID.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> I hope that people will look to see that Molly Spearman...added value to the lives of students and families in South Carolina, and that maybe I did a little something to make our state a better place.

I am...it has been a joy to serve, and it's sadness that I leave, but I feel I'm very much at peace about I know that I've done the best job that I could do, always focusing on what's best for students and families in our state.

<Gavin> Very good.

It's great to have you back on set.

Superintendent Molly Spearman, thank you so much.

<Supt.

Molly Spearman> Thank you, Gavin.

To keep you updated throughout the week, check out the South Carolina Lede podcast.

We drop it twice a week and you can find it on South Carolina public radio.org or wherever you find podcasts.

For South Carolina ETV, I'm Gavin Jackson.

Be well, South Carolina.

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