>> ERIC: HENNEPIN COUNTY ATTORNEY MARY MORIARTY ANNOUNCED FELONY CHARGES WEDNESDAY AGAINST A STATE TROOPER WHO KILLED A BLACK MOTORIST LAST SUMMER.

RYAN LONDREGAN FACES MURDER, MANSLAUGHTER, AND ASSAULT CHARGES FOR FATALLY SHOOTING RICKY COBB II DURING A TRAFFIC STOP IN MINNEAPOLIS.

LONDREGAN'S ATTORNEY OBJECTED TO MORIARTY'S USE OF A GRAND JURY IN GATHERING EVIDENCE ON THE CASE, THOUGH SHE HERSELF MADE THE FINAL CHARGING DECISION.

HERE FOR SOME ANALYSIS, TWO LEGAL EXPERTS ON POLICE VIOLENCE CASES AND THE GRAND JURY PROCESS.

FORMER RAMSEY COUNTY ATTORNEY SUSAN GAERTNER, NOW IN PRIVATE PRACTICE.

RICK PETRY IS A FORMER DEFENSE ATTORNEY, NOW A PROFESSOR AND DIRECTOR OF DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION AT MITCHELL HAMLINE SCHOOL OF LAW.

WELCOME TO BOTH OF YOU.

GRAND JURY WAS CALLED.

DIDN'T TAKE A VOTE EVEN.

IS THIS SOME NEW TACTIC OR IS THIS, LIKE, RIGHT FROM THE MIME FREEMAN BOOK?

>> WELL, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MIKE FREEMAN TOOK ON AS A WAY TO GO FORWARD.

AND I THINK IT'S AN EXCELLENT USE OF THE GRAND JURY PROCESS.

I MEAN, IT -- WHAT YOU HAVE IS THE ABILITY WITH A GRAND JURY TO CONDUCT AN INVESTIGATION, TAKING IT A STEP FARTHER THAN YOU COULD OTHERWISE BECAUSE YOU COULD COMPEL WITNESSES BEFORE THE GRAND JURY.

SO YOU GATHER ALL THAT INFORMATION, AND THEN YOU CAN MAKE A BETTER DECISION ABOUT HOW YOU SHOULD MOVE FORWARD.

AND THEN THE COUNTY ATTORNEY STANDS UP TO THE PUBLIC AND STANDS BEHIND THE DECISION SHE MAKES.

RATHER THAN HIDE IT UNDER THE COVER OF THE GRAND JURY PROCESS.

>> Cathy: EVIDENTLY A USE OF FORCE EXPERT WAS CONSULTED, BUT THAT WAS NOT IN ANY REPORT.

WAS THAT A LITTLE IRREGULAR OR IS THAT COMMON TO BRING IN EXPERTS BEFORE THE GRAND JURY?

>> O, THINK THAT'S OKAY.

THERE'S NO LEGAL REQUIREMENT THAT YOU HAVE AN EXPERT USE OF FORCE OR ANYTHING ELSE.

THAT'S A JUDGMENT CALL AND A TACTICAL CALL THAT A LAWYER IS ENTITLED TO MAKE.

SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S A BIG DEAL.

>> I WAS TALKING WITH TO JOE TAMBOURINEO AND HE SAID HE FELT THESE CHARGES ARE CONFUSING AND LEGALLY INCONSISTENT BECAUSE TWO OF THE CHARGES WAS UNINTENTIONAL CRIMES AND ONE WAS INTENTIONAL ASSAULT.

IS IT CONFUSING?

>> NO, I DON'T THINK SO.

AND I DON'T AGREE WITH JOE.

I KNOW JOE, BUT I DON'T AGREE WITH HIM ON THIS ONE.

THIS IS WHAT WE WOULD REFER TO AS AN ALTERNATIVE THEORY.

ON THE ONE HAND, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE WAS AN INTENT TO COMMIT THE SECOND-DEGREE ASSAULT, WHICH IS THE UNDERLYING FELONY FOR THE SECOND-DEGREE MURDER CHARGE, THEN HE COULD BE CONVICTED UNDER THAT.

IF YOU DON'T, THEN WE MOVE O THE OTHER CHARGES.

SO THIS IS NOT UNUSUAL.

AND I DON'T THINK IT'S CONFUSING AT ALL.

>> Eric: A VIEW -- FOR YOU TO VIEW THE -- WHAT WOULD YOU CALL THEM, THE DEADLY FORCE STANDARDS I GUESS THEY WOULD BE CALLED, PROTECTING SOMEBODY SPECIFICALLY AGAINST A THREAT TO YOUR SAFETY OR EVEN DEATH.

IS THAT FIT THE CASE HERE?

>> WELL, THE CHARGES, AS THEY ARE SET OUT, ARE RELYING ON THE PREMISE THAT THE USE OF DEADLY FORCE WAS NOT JUSTIFIABLE.

AND SO THE DEFENSE WILL BE IN FACT THAT IT WAS.

THE DEFENSE WILL BE, IT WAS IMPERATIVE THAT DEADLY FORCE BE USED TO SAVE THE LIFE OF HIMSELF, THE FELLOW TROOPERS, WHOEVER ELSE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A THREAT.

BUT, AGAIN, POLICE OFFICERS CAN USE DEADLY FORCE.

BUT IT HAS TO BE REASONABLE.

SO THAT WILL BE WHAT THE BATTLE IS ALL ABOUT.

>> Eric: ARE JURIES MORE INCLINED NOW TO BE TOUGHER ON LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS POST-GEORGE FLOYD, OR IS THAT JUST A COINCIDENCE?

>> NO I THINK THAT JURIES ARE MUCH MORE OPEN-MINDED NOW ABOUT THE RESPONSIBILITY THAT PERHAPS LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS HAVE COMMITTED CRIMES.

I'LL TELL YOU WHY I THINK THAT.

PRIOR TO GEORGE FLOYD IN VOIR DIRE, JURY SELECTION, IF YOU ASKED A JUROR, IF A POLICE OFFICER COMES IN, THAT THEY'RE MORE LIKELY TO BE HONEST THAN A LAYPERSON, MOST URORS WOULD SAY, YEAH, I THINK SO.

NOW I'M HEARING FROM MEMBERS OF THE BENCH THAT THAT'S NOT THE CASE.

THAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING I'M NOT SO SURE.

I'M GOING TO HAVE TO REALLY PAY CLOSE ATTENTION.

SO I THINK THERE'S MORE OF AN APPETITE IN THE COMMUNITY TO AT LEAST CONSIDER IT WITHOUT JUST DISMISSING IT OUT OF HAND.

>> Cathy: WHAT DO YOU MAKE WHEN IT COMES O SEATING A JURY?

I MEAN, THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE, AGAIN, THIS IS A WELL COVERED STORY.

WILL THIS HAVE TO BE MOVED OUT OF HENNEPIN COUNTY?

>> NO.

I'M SURE THAT THERE WILL BE AN ATTEMPT TO MADE TO MOVE IT OUT OF HENNEPIN COUNTY, BUT IN FACT THE MORE PUBLICITY ANY GIVEN CASE GETS, IN SOME WAYS, THE LESS LIKELY IT'S TO BE MOVES.

WHEN YOU CONSIDER THAT THERE IS A MEDIA MARKET THAT'S STATEWIDE, MOVING IT TO -- AND I KNOW THIS WAS A FACTOR IN THE HAUVIN DECISION NOT TO MOVE THE CASE, YOU MOVE IT TO BEMIDJI OR BRAINERD AND THEY'RE READING THE SAME PAPERS AND WATCHING THE SAME NEWS, AND SO THEY'RE JUST AS LIKELY TO KNOW ABOUT IT AS JURORS IN HENNEPIN COUNTY.

>> Eric: COULD YOU REACT TO THE TROOPER'S ATTORNEY'S COMMENTS.

MARY MORIARTY'S MADE SWEETHEART DEALS WITH MURDERERS AND KID NAPPERS, NOW SHE CHARGES A HERO.

MORIARTY IS OUT OF CONTROL.

IT'S OPEN SEASON ON LAW ENFORCEMENT.

IT MUST END?

>> I'M REALLY GLAD YOU ASKED THAT QUESTION BECAUSE THAT'S GRAND-STANDING, RIGHT?

LEGALLY, THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO SIGNIFICANCE TO THOSE COMMENTS.

IT'S GRAND-STANDING.

ALL THAT IS JUST TRYING TO POTENTIALLY INFLUENCE A JURY PANEL AND THE GENERAL PUBLIC.

IT HAS ZERO BEARING ON THE LEGAL COMPONENTS OF THIS OFFENSE.

AND FRANKLY, I THINK IT'S REALLY UNNECESSARY.

WHETHER OR NOT THIS TROOPER IS GUILTY OF THE OFFENSE WILL BE GOVERNED BY THE LAW.

AND THE JURORS WILL HAVE THINGS THAT THEY'LL HAVE TO WEIGH AND CONSIDER AND SEE IF THE STATE CAN ROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT THAT THIS PERSON'S GUILTY.

IF THEY FIND THAT HE IS, BASED ON THE LAW, THEN HE WOULD BE CONVICTED.

IF NOT, THEN HE WOULDN'T BE.

>> >> Cathy: IT WAS A LITTLE UNUSUAL BECAUSE I DON'T THINK -- WHEN'S THE LAST TIME WE HEARD A DEFENSE ATTORNEY GO AFTER THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IN INITIAL STATEMENTS ABOUT HIS CASE?

>> IT IS VERY UNUSUAL.

AND I THINK IT'S VERY MUCH LIKE OUR POLITICS THESE DAYS.

IS JUST THE RHETORIC IS SO MUCH ANGRIER, NO MATTER WHICH SIDE YOU'RE ON.

AND IN THIS INSTANCE, A VERY EMOTIONAL CRIMINAL JUSTICE DECISION HAS BEEN MADE AND SO TO PERSONALIZE IT AND CRITICIZE THE COUNTY ATTORNEY IN THIS WAY IS I THINK A TREND AND A VERY UNFORTUNATE ONE.

>> Eric: DID YOU GET SOME OF THAT INCOMING WHEN YOU WERE COUNTY ATTORNEY?

>> ON OCCASION, BUT NOTHING THIS BOLD, THIS HOSTILE.

THIS OUT OF CONTROL.

>> Eric: OKAY.

WELL, GOOD STUFF.

WE LEARNED A LOT.

APPRECIATE YOU