>> AN ABOUT FACE IN THE DEBATE OVER STATES' RIGHTS.

TWO NOTORIOUS RUSSIANS AND BRITTANY GRINER'S FATE.

AND HOW FAR IS TOO FAR WHEN PROTESTING SUPREME COURT DECISIONS •AND JUSTICES?

STAY TUNED FOR IVORY TOWER.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING.

WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY, FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

I'M JOINED AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT BY KRISTI ANDERSEN FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, NINA MOORE FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY, ANIRBAN ACHARYA FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE AND LUKE PERRY FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY.

IN RESPONSE TO RECENT SUPREME COURT RULINGS, SOME STATES HAVE CRAFTED WHAT THEY BELIEVE ARE WORKAROUNDS TO THE COURT DECISIONS.

HERE IN NEW YORK, THE STATE LEGISLATURE PUT LIMITS ON CONCEALED CARRY AFTER THE COURT MADE IT EASIER TO GET A PERMIT.

A MAINE LAW PROHIBITS RELIGIOUS SCHOOLS FROM DISCRIMINATING IF THEY WANT STATE FUNDS.

THEY WON'T COMMIT TO THAT, SO THEY DON'T GET STATE MONEY, THE SAME RESULT AS BEFORE A RECENT SUPREME COURT DECISION.

KRISTI, WHERE IS THE BALANCE NOW BETWEEN STATE AND FEDERAL RIGHTS?

IS IT EVOLVING?

>> IT'S ALWAYS EVOLVING.

I THINK ANYBODY WHO HAS TAUGHT AMERICAN POLITICS ALWAYS STARTS OUT WITH THE NOTION THAT THE CONSTITUTION WAS CREATED AS A COMPROMISE, BUT THE PEOPLE WHO WROTE THE CONSTITUTION DIDN'T WANT THE TOTAL POWER OF THE KING, BUT THEY ALSO DIDN'T WANT-- OBVIOUSLY THE ARTICLES OF CONFEDERATION HADN'T WORKED WELL AND TOO MUCH INDEPENDENCE OF THOSE DIDN'T WORK WELL, EITHER.

SO I'M NOT SURE IT'S EVOLVING IN ANY PARTICULAR DIRECTION, BUT I DO THINK THAT WITH THE POLARIZATION WE HAVE RIGHT NOW, WE ARE FINDING THAT THE STATE LAWS IN RESPONSE IN PART TO SUPREME COURT DECISIONS OR NATIONAL DECISIONS ARE MORE VARIED THAN THEY WERE BEFORE, MORE DIFFERENT.

SO AFRO ROW WAS OATER-- SO AFTER ROE V. WADE WAS OVERTURNED, YOU HAVE STATES LIKE NEW YORK SPENDING MONEY IN ILLINOIS TO SET UP PLACES WHERE PEOPLE FROM OTHER STATES CAN COME AND GET ABORTION CARE.

ON THE OTHER HAND, YOU HAVE STATES WHICH NOT ONLY BAN ABORTION BUT ARE GOING TO CRIMINAL SIZE-- CRIMINALIZE FOR SEEKING ABORTIONS OR PEOPLE HELPING WITH ABORTIONS.

THAT'S JUST THE SPACE BETWEEN THOSE DIFFERENT SORTS OF LAWS, WHICH ARE BOTH MADE IN THE LIGHT OF A SUPREME COURT DECISION IS SORT OF SCARY.

>> BUT WE OFTEN THINK OF CONSERVATIVES SAYING, CALLING ON STAWTS RIGHTS AND RELYING ON THAT BUT IN THIS CASE, NINA, IT'S DEFENDING A PROGRESSIVE POINT OF VIEW.

>> YEAH ACTUALLY.

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE IS THAT THE STATES RIGHTS IDEOLOGY HAS BECOME A REFUGE FROM CONSERVATIVE SUPREME COURT DECISIONS IN THE SENSE THAT LIBERAL STATES AS YOU MENTIONED, DAVE, LIKE NEW YORK AND MAINE, HAVE POWER TO EFFECTIVELY REVERSE SUPREME COURT DECISIONS SO I WOULD SAY THAT STATES RIGHTS IS NOW A REFUGE FOR LIBERALS BUT IT IS NOT A REPLACEMENT FOR CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHTS THAT APPLY TO EVERY CITIZEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY REGARDLESS OF WHAT STATE THEY LIVE IN AND SO THAT IS REALLY SORT OF THE PROBLEM WITH THERE PATCHWORK APPROACH.

IT WORKS FOR LIBERAL STATES.

IT WORKS FOR CONSERVATIVE STATES, BUT IT DOESN'T WORK FOR INDIVIDUALS WHO SHOULD NOT HAVE TO HAVE THEIR RIGHTS CONTINGENT ON THE STATES THEY LIVE IN.

>> WHEN YOU ARE SAYING RIGHTS, YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ABORTION AND, THE OVERTURNING OF ROE V. WADE BUT WHAT ABOUT SOME OF THE OTHERS LIKE THINGS LIKE THE CONCEALED CARRY LAW?

>> I THINK THAT HELLER, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE YEAR, IT BASICALLY SAID THAT STATES AND LOCALITIES HAD THE POWER TO REASONABLY REGULATE GUNS THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE THE NATIONAL RULES OR THE SUPREME COURT HAS NEVER SAID EVEN IN HELLER THAT, YOU KNOW.

>> WILL THESE CHANGES IN STATE LAWS OR STATES CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS HAVE TO TAKE A BACK SEAT TO THE FEDERAL CONSTITUTION?

ISN'T THAT WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SAID?

>> WE STARTED TALKING ABOUT A BALANCE BETWEEN THE STATE GOVERNMENT AND THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, IT'S NOT A BALANCE, THE STATE GOVERNMENT IS ARE NOW HELPLESS.

BUILDING ON NINA'S POINT, I THINK THE CHALLENGE FOR THE LEFT IS THAT DUE TO GEE GEOGRAPHIC REPRESENTATION, THERE ARE A LOT MORE CONSERVATIVE STATES THAN LIBERAL STATES.

ABOUT TWO-THIRDS ARE CONSERVATIVE.

ONE THIRD ARE LIBERAL, JUST BECAUSE THE POPULATION DENSITY AND THE WAY THINGS WORK.

DEMOCRATS ARE LATE TO THE GAME.

THEY HAVEN'T CONTESTED STATE SEATS THE WAY REPUBLICANS HAVE AND NOW THEY'RE TRYING TO SHIFT STRATEGY IN LIGHT OF RECENT CIRCUMSTANCES BUT THEY'RE NOT IN A POSITION TO DO SO EFFECTIVELY EXCEPT IN LIBERAL STATES LIKE NEW YORK.

>> PICKING UP ON THAT, I AGREE, THE WAY THE FEDERALISM IS STRUCTURED IN THE UNITED STATES IT WAS MEANT TO BE A PRAGMATIC COMPROMISE, TO KEEP THE UNION TOGETHER AND OVER TIME.

IT MAKES THE ARGUMENT THAT OVER TIME THERE HAS BEEN A SHIFT OF POWER BETWEEN STATES AND GOVERNMENT YOU CAN LOOK AT CIVIL WARS BUT WHAT IT DOES IS SYSTEMATICALLY BUILT IN INEQUALITIES IN THE FEDERALISM WHERE AS YOU POINT OUT, YOUR BASIC ASPECTS OF LIFE FOR EXAMPLE, HEALTHCARE, UNEMPLOYMENT, MEDICARE, MEDICAID, THESE ARE INCREASINGLY DEPENDENT ON WHERE YOU LIVE, WHICH I THINK IS PROBLEMATIC AND I DO THINK THAT THERE IS SPACE FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT TO CREATE A UNIFORM ASPECT OF SOME BASIC FUNDAMENTAL LIFE FOR AMERICAN CITIZENS BECAUSE WE TALK ABOUT MEDICAID AND MEDICARE.

THERE ARE 50 OF THEM, RIGHT?

COMPLETE PATCHWORK, 90,000 GOVERNMENTS, 18,000 POLICE DEPARTMENTS, SO I THINK THE ARGUMENT IS THAT THIS KIND OF PARCELLIZATION OF POWER GETS IN THE WAY OF BROAD NATIONAL ACTION AND THAT-- DONALD TRUMP SAID, YOU KNOW, GOVERNORS SHOULD GET-- FROM WHEREVER THEY ARE.

>> AND PART OF IT IS GROUNDED IN THIS SORT OF ORIGINAL INTENT IDEA THAT ALL OF THE POWERS THAT WERE NOT EXPRESSLY GRANTED TO THE NATIONAL GOVERNMENT WERE RESERVED TO THE STATES.

AND SO IT WAS, PRIMARILY, AS YOU POINT OUT, THROUGH MAINLY ECONOMIC ISSUES, STATE BLOCK GRANTS AND SO FORTH, THAT WE SAW THIS SORT OF EVOLUTION OF POWER BACK TO THE STATES, BUT NOW WE ARE TALKING ABOUT FUNDAMENTAL RIGHTS AND THERE WAS A PERIOD OF TIME WHEN THE SUPREME COURT SAID, WELL, YEAH, THERE IS THE RESERVED POWERS AMENDMENT; HOWEVER, ONCE THE 14th AMENDMENT EQUAL PROTECTION AND DUE PROCESS CLAUSES WERE RATIFIED, THOSE THINGS INCORPORATED ALL OF THE RIGHTS THAT WERE PROTECTED FROM CONGRESS NOW TO BE PROTECTED FROM STATES, AND SO TO YOUR EARL EARLIER POINT, DAVE, WE ARE REALLY TALKING ABOUT PULLING THE RUG OUT FROM UNDERNEATH WHAT LUKE DESCRIBED AS THIS SORT OF GRADUAL BUILDING OF POWER AT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT LEVEL SO YES, MORE IS TO COME, I THINK.

>> THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE BRETT KAVANAUGH WAS DINING AT A WASHINGTON STEAKHOUSE RECENTLY WHEN WORD GOT OUT HE WAS THERE, LEADING TO ACTIVISTS PROTESTING ON THE STREET NEARBY.

A GROUP CALLED SHUT DOWN DC IS OFFERING CASH TO RESTAURANT WORKERS IN WASHINGTON TO TIP THEM OFF WHEN MEMBERS OF THE SUPREME COURT ARE INSIDE.

AFTER ROE V WADE WAS OVERTURNED, PROTESTERS GATHERED OUTSIDE JUSTICES' HOMES AS WELL.

HOW FAR IS TOO FAR WHEN IT COMES TO THESE PROTESTS AGAINST THE JUSTICES, OR OTHER PUBLIC FIGURES??

>> THAT'S A TOUGH QUESTION.

I HAVEN'T HAD THE STRUGGLES WITH FREEDOM AND EQUALITY THAT MILLIONS OF OTHER PEOPLE HAVE THROUGHOUT AMERICAN HISTORY, INCLUDING THE CURRENT MOMENT.

SO I'M EMPATHETIC AND SUPPORTIVE TO PEOPLE PROTESTING PEACEFULLY IN OUR DEMOCRACY.

AT THE SAME TIME, I'M ALSO A LITTLE BIT UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE IDEA THAT THIS CAN HAPPEN JUST ABOUT ANYWHERE 24/7 SO I'M SUPPORTIVE, PARTICULARLY OF-- PARTICULARLY OF PROTESTING OUTSIDE WHERE SOMEBODY SERVES AND EVEN DOING SO IN OTHER LOCATIONS DURING STANDrd-- STANDARD BUSINESS WORK HOURS BUT WHEN IT COMES TO GOING TO PEOPLE'S HOUSES OR BUSINESSES THEY PATRONIZE, I DON'T THINK IT'S GOOD FOR DEMOCRACY FOR A VARIETY OF DIFFERENT REASONS.

>> ANIRBAN?

>> WELL, I MEAN, AGAIN, I HAVE MIXED FEELINGS ABOUT THIS I DO FEEL IT'S KIND OF INDECENT IF SOMEONE IS HAVING A MEAL, WHATEVER OPINION THEY HAVE HAD IN A JUDICIAL SENSE, TO HECKLE THEM PERHAPS IS NOT A DECENT THING TO DO.

BUT DEMOCRACY IS NOT NECESSARILY BUILT ON DECENCY.

IT'S BASED ON POWER STRUGGLE AND A LOT OF PEOPLE AROUND THE UNITED STATES ARE FEELING THEY'RE FORCED TO REMAIN PREGNANT AND SO ON AND SO FORTH AND THEY'RE GOING OUT AND TAKING THEIR FIRST AMENDMENT RIGHTS OF RIGHTFUL ASSEMBLY AND THERE WAS SOME JOKES GOING AROUND THAT IS THERE A RIGHT TO DINE IN THE CONSTITUTION?

EQUALING THE KIND OF JUDICIAL... >> SO I THINK THAT'S DEMOCRACY.

THAT'S THE VIBRANCY OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

HOUSE OR PERSONAL PROPERTY IS TOO FAR, BUT RESTAURANTS ARE NOT PART OF A BUBBLE.

THEY'RE PART OF CIVIL SOCIETY.

RESTAURANT WORKERS ARE AFFECTED BY THESE DECISIONS SO I THINK IT'S FAIR GAME.

YOU STAY OUTSIDE... >> YOU KNOW, FOR YEARS, PROTESTORS, ANTIABORTION PROTESTORS HAVE REALLY THREATENED PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO ABORTION CLINICS AND THE PROVIDERS AND THEY'VE KILLED PEOPLE WHO ARE PROVIDING ABORTION CARE.

AND THAT HAS NOT BEEN REALLY STOPPED.

AND THOSE PEOPLE STILL CAMP OUTSIDE OF PLACES THAT WHERE PEOPLE, PLANNED PARENT HOOD CLINICS AND SO FORTH SO GIVEN THAT, I'M A LITTLE LESS SYMPATHETIC TO THE JUSTICES EATING DINNER AND SO ON.

>> BUT I DO SEE A BIT OF A DIFFERENCE THERE, RIGHT?

SO THIS ACTUALLY SEEMS TO ME TO BE COUNTERPRODUCTIVE BECAUSE IT DOESN'T SORT OF FIT THE PATTERN OF THE VERY SUCCESSFUL IMPACTFUL PROTEST POLITICS AND MOVEMENTS OF THE 1960s.

ALMOST ALL OF WHICH WERE GEARED TOWARD BOTH RAISING PUBLIC CONSCIOUSNESS ABOUT THE ISSUES BUT ALSO WINNING OVER THE PUBLIC.

AND I'M NOT SURE THAT THESE THINGS ARE ACCOMPLISHING THEIR GOAL IN SO FAR AS THEY BASICALLY AMOUNT TO PESTERING POLICY MAKERS TO THE BIGGER SORT OF IDEOLOGICAL OR CONSTITUTIONAL ISSUES OF THE RIGHT UNDER THE FIRST AMENDMENT, TO PETITION GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.

SUPREME COURT JUSTICES ARE DEFINITELY PART OF THE GOVERNMENT WHEN THEY'RE IN THE SUPREME COURT BUILDING AND CARRYING OUT THEIR DUTIES.

BUT I THINK ONCE THEY LEAVE THAT SPHERE, THEY BECOME PRIVATE INDIVIDUALS AND I THINK TO ARGUE THAT THEY CAN BE PROTESTED ANYWHERE AND EVERYWHERE WITHOUT ANY LIMITS IS TO DENY THE FACT THAT THEY HAVE PRIVATE LIVES.

>> KRISTI, YOU STRONGLY DISAGREE.

>> I THINK WITHOUT ANY LIMITS IS AN EXAGGERATION.

OBVIOUSLY THEY'VE GOT PROTECTION, YOU KNOW, THE SUPREME COURT HAS DELEGATED PEOPLE TO PROTECT SUPREME COURT JUSTICES, WHICH I THINK IS ALL CORRECT.

PEOPLE SHOULD NOT BE THREATENING THEM.

THERE SHOULD NOT BE PEOPLE CARRYING FIREARMS.

THE PEOPLE PROTESTING, I HAVE TO SAY, IN CHEVY CHASE WERE APPARENTLY THE NEIGHBORS OF KAVANAUGH AND ROBERTS AND THEY WERE, BY ALL ACCOUNTS PEACEFUL.

I DON'T KNOW IF ANY OF YOU SAW PETE BUT BUTTIGIEG BUT HE BASICALLY WAS IN FAVOR OF ALLOWING PEACEFUL PROTESTS AND HE WAS VERY EMPHATIC ABOUT THAT.

BUT TALKED ABOUT HIS OWN EXPERIENCE AND THAT HE WAS ALWAYS, YOU KNOW, BEING PROTESTED, BEING CRITICIZED FOR BEING GAY.

THIS HAPPENS IF YOU ARE IN THE PUBLIC EYE AND SO I THINK THERE IS A BIG DISTINCTION BETWEEN PEACEFUL PROTEST OF VARIOUS SORTS AND I THINK YOU COULD ALSO SAY AFTER NOT AFTER 10:00 AT NIGHT OR 8:00 AT NIGHT SO PEOPLE CAN SLEEP.

>> IF IT'S EVERYWHERE ALL THE TIME, THE RIGHTS ARE CREATING DANGER.

THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT COMPLETELY DEFINED BY THEIR GOVERNMENT ROLE.

THEY HAVE OTHER ROLES AS HUMAN BEINGS, FAMILY MEMBERS, THESE TYPES OF THINGS.

AS AN ELECTED OFFICIAL, I HAVE BEEN HARASSED BY PEOPLE WHO FOLLOW ME AROUND, INTERRUPT MY DAILY ROUTINE TO COMMUNICATE TO ME AT A SMALL LOCAL LEVEL, I WAS IN MEETINGS AND IT GETS MORE AND MORE ESCALATED AND DISINCENTIVIZES PEOPLE FROM GOING INTO PUBLIC SERVICE AND CREATES DANGERS FOR PEOPLE IN THEM.

>> BUT IT DID SAY IN THE SAME COMMENT THAT PUBLIC FIGURES SHOULD BE FREE FROM INTIMIDATION AND HARASSMENT.

>> IT'S A FINE LINE.

HOW DO YOU DEFINE WHAT THAT IS?

AND I AGREE WITH LUKE.

THIS POTENTIALLY DISCOURAGES FINE PEOPLE LIKE LUKE FROM RUNNING FOR CONGRESS OR OTHER... >> THAT'S THE PART OF THE PROFESSIONAL HAZARD OF BEING A PUBLIC OFFICIAL BEING SCREAMED AT.

>> WHAT IF YOU ARE VOLUNTEERED AND UNPAID.

THAT'S NOT SUPREME COURT JUSTICES BUT THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE AT THE LOCAL LEVEL.

VOLUNTEERING THEIR TIME TO HELP SOLVE PROBLEMS.

>> THEY SHOULD KNOW THAT COMES WITH THE JOB.

LIKE MY STUDENTS SOMETIMES HATE ME.

>> SURE.

LOOK, I'M AGAINST GOING AND SCREAMING AGAINST PEOPLE BUT DO I BELIEVE THAT IN THE UNITED STATES, AS A DEMOCRACY PEOPLE DO HAVE THE RIGHT TO PEACEFULLY PROTEST.

>> MAYBE THERE SHOULDN'T BE A LAW OR REGULATION BUT YOU STARTED THE CONVERSATION WITH DECENCY.

COMMON DECENCY.

>> I THINK THERE SHOULD BE LAWS.

I THINK THERE SHOULD BE LAWS THAT MAKE CLEAR WHAT IS PERMISSIBLE AND WHAT IS NOT AND IF THE PROTESTORS DON'T LIKE IT, THEY SHOULD APPEAL TO THE SUPREME COURT.

>> RIGHT.

KAVANAUGH WILL WRITE THAT OPINION.

THE THE WNBA HELD ITS ALL-STAR GAME LAST WEEKEND WHILE BRITTANY GRINER SAT IN A RUSSIAN PRISON.

GRINER FACES A SENTENCE OF UP TO 10 YEARS AFTER PLEADING GUILTY TO BRINGING A LESS THAN A GRAM OF CANNABIS OIL INTO RUSSIA IN A VAPE CARTRIDGE.

PRESIDENT BIDEN IS UNDER INTENSE PRESSURE TO GET GRINER RELEASED.

VLADIMIR PUTIN REPORTEDLY WANTS TO GET NOTORIOUS ARMS DEALER VICTOR BOOT, KNOWN AS THE MERCHANT OF DEATH, OUT OF AN AMERICAN PRISON WHERE HE'S SERVING A 25-YEAR SENTENCE.

SHOULD BIDEN MAKE THAT DEAL?

WILL THAT SIMPLY ENCOURAGE MORE -- IS THIS HOLDING GRINER HOSTAE AND SHOULD BIDEN MAKE THAT DEAL.

>> SHORT ANSWER YES.

LET'S START BY SAYING WHENEVER WE SAY ABOUT RUSSIAN VAPE CARTRIDGES WE SHOULD SAY ALLEGEDLY BEFORE THAT.

WE DON'T KNOW WHAT SHE HAS GONE THROUGH.

WE DON'T KNOW THE PARTICULARS OF THE CASE.

BUT YES, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN DISCUSSED DURING THIS TIME IS THAT THE REASON GRINER THERE IS BECAUSE WOMEN IN THE WNBA AND WOMEN'S BASKETBALL, THEY GET PAID WAY, WAY LESS MONEY AND I WAS LOOKING AT THE STATISTICS, THE NUMBERS, APPARENTLY SHE GETS PAID $230,000 A YEAR WHICH IS LEBRON JAMES GETS PAID $675,000 PER GAME SO IN RUSSIA, SHE EARNS AN EXTRA MILLION DOLLARS FOR PLAYING THE GAME.

SO THERE IS A STRUCTURAL SEXISM WHICH FORCES WOMEN TO PLAY IN THE FOREIGN LEAGUES SECOND IS THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION I THINK LAST YEAR DID THESE KINDS OF EXCHANGES, RIGHT?

CONSTANTINE WAS PICKED UP IN LIBERIA, A BIG COCAINE OR DRUG DEALER AND EXCHANGED WITH TREVOR REED.

SO MY SOLUTION WOULD BE YES, DEFINITELY FREE BRITTANY GRINER NOW AND AT THE SAME TIME, YOU CAN DO A DOUBLE DEAL.

THERE IS ANOTHER PERSON CALLED PAUL WAYLAND WHO WAS PICKED UP BECAUSE OF USB DRIVES.

>> WOULD THAT NOT ADVERTISE TO THE REST OF THE WORLD AND TO SOME STATES WE MIGHT NOT LIKE DOING BUSINESS WITH, HERE IS A GOOD WAY TO DO WHAT YOU WANT.

KIDNAP AN AMERICAN?

>> EVERYBODY KNOWS THAT AND WE HAVE DONE THAT ARE IRAN AND OTHER PLACES, TOO ONE GOOD POINT MADE BY THE ARTICLE YOU SUGGESTED WE READ IS THAT THE MERCHANT OF DEATH HAS HAR WILL BE IN JAIL FOR QUITE A WHILE AND HE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO BE EFFECTIVE ONCE HE GETS OUT.

HE HAS LOST HIS CURRENTLY.

PEOPLE WOULDN'T TRUST HIM AND SO FORTH.

SO IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION, THIS SEEMS LIKE YES.

>> YOU ARE REACTING TO THIS.

>> I'M SURPRISED AT THIS VIEW POINT.

VICTOR BOOT WAS CAUGHT IN A FEDERAL STING WHO OFFERED TO SELL WEAPONS TO HE THOUGHT WERE COLOMBIANS TO KILL AMERICANS.

YOU I FEEL HORRIBLY FOR BRITTANY GRINER.

SHE IS IN A TRAGIC SITUATION, THERE IS NO RULE OF LAW IN RUSSIA.

I UNDERSTAND WHAT IT'S LIKE THERE, PARTICULARLY IF SOMEONE IS BLACK AND GAY, IT MAKES IT A THOUSAND SAND TIMES WORSE BUT TO SUGGEST TRADING HER IS EQUIVALENT AND PRUDENT TO NOTORIOUS ARMS DEALER WHO WANTED TO KILL AMERICANS, IT'S NOT.

AND I AGREE WITH YOU, THERE IS A DOUBLE STANDARD IN TERMS OF SPORTS, PHOENIX MERCURY COACH SAID LEBRON JAMES PROBABLY WOULD HAVE BEEN RELEASED BY NOW.

THAT IS TRAGIC AND AWFUL BUT I DON'T THINK IF I WERE THE PRESIDENT THAT WOULD I MAKE THIS TRADE FOR A LOT OF DIFFERENT REASONS.

IT'S NOT SMART FOREIGN POLICY.

>> I WOULD SAY LET'S-- AND I AGREE WITH YOU, ANIRBAN, THAT WE SHOULD WITH HOLD JUDGMENT BECAUSE THE STATE DEPARTMENT SAYS SHE IS BEING UNLAWFULLY DETAINED ALTHOUGH THEY HAVE NOT DISCLOSED THAT.

HOWEVER MUCH MORE GENERALLY, I WOULD SAY THAT THE PARAMETER AS ROUND PRISONER SWAPS SHOULD BE BASED NOT ON THE PRISONERS AND THEIR BEST INTERESTS BUT THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE U.S. BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU GET AMERICAN TRAVELERS WHO WILL IGNORE THE ADVICE OF THE STATE DEPARTMENT AND GO TO THE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES AND WE HAVE TO POUR OUR RESOURCES AND OUR POLITICAL CAPITAL INTO EXTRACTING THEM FROM THOSE COUNTRIES AND THAT'S A SERIOUS PROBLEM BECAUSE WE HAVE 330 MILLION PEOPLE IN THE COUNTRY.

>> THERE IS VERY LITTLE OTHER THAN A TRADE THAT PRESIDENT BIDEN CAN DO.

AND THERE IS NO LEBRON JAMES LEAVER IN THE SITUATION ROOM THAT YOU PRESS THAT LEAVER AND-- >> THAT'S WHY I WANT TO GO BACK TO SAYING WE HAVE DONE THIS KIND OF TRADE.

>> EX-MILITARY WHO MAY BE SECRET AGENT.

>> OR COULD BE I THINK IT'S A MORAL AND JUST THING TO DO TO GO BEYOND OUR CALCULATION.

IT'S A VERY GOOD POINT YOU MAKE, THAT HE IS NOT A MERCHANT OF DEATH ANYMORE.

AFTER YOU GET PICKED UP AND SPEND IN PRISON-- >> NOBODY IS GIVING YOU A DEAL.

>> HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE THAT WERE KILLED?

>> THIS IS A GREAT DISCUSSION BUT WE HAVE TO GET TO OUR AS AND Fs.

KRISTI WE BEGIN WITH YOUR F. >> TO KATHY HOCHUL WHO CLAIMS TO BE CREATING A NEW ERA OF TRANSPARENCY IN NEW YORK STATE GOVERNMENT BUT THE LAST DAYS OF LEGISLATIVE SESSION SHE ASKED LEGISLATORS TO FAST TRACK BILLS FOR $10 BILLION IN SUBSIDIES WITHOUT A PUBLIC HEARING OR DEBATE ON SEMICONDUCTORS.

THIS SOUNDS FAR TOO MUCH LIKE GOVERNOR CUOMO AND THE BUFFALO BILLIONS.

>> AND YOUR F?

>> SEVERAL CHICAGO PUBLIC HIGH SCHOOLS AUTOMATICALLY ENROLLED HUNDREDS OF BLACK AND LATINO STUDENTS INTO JUNIOR ROTC WITHOUT EITHER THE STUDENTS KNOWLEDGE OR THEIR PARENTS.

THE PROGRAM IS MEANT TO BE VOLUNTARY BUT SOME OF THE STUDENTS HAD TO FIGHT TO GET OUT OF THE PROGRAM AND SOME COULD NOT DO SO.

DURING THIS, THEY HAD TO WEAR MILITARY UNIFORMS, PARTICIPATE IN DRILLS AND FOLLOW THE PROGRAM'S GROOMING STANDARDS.

SO I THINK THAT THIS SCHOOL, WHICH WAS REALLY TRYING TO SAVE THE ROTC PROGRAM GETS A FAILING GRADE FOR IGNORING STUDENTS BEST INTERESTS.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> MY F GOES TO THE WORLD RENOWNED ERNST & YOUNG AIDING AND ABETTING OF SYSTEMATIC CHEATING BY EMPLOYEES ON AN ETHICS EXAM REQUEST FOR THE C.P.A.

CERTIFICATION.

IT AGREED TO PAY HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO THE SECURITIES AND FOUND THAT ERNST AND YOUNG LIED TO THE SEC OFFICIALS.

>> THAT DESERVES AN F LUKE.

>> MY F GOES TO A STRANGE SITUATION AT SEA THIS WEEK.

AN F-18 SUPER HORN HORNET FELL OFF THE U.S. AIRCRAFT CARRIER INTO THE IMMEDIATE DRAINIAN, THE 50 MILLION-DOLLAR PLANE BLEW OVERBOARD UNQUOTE DURING BAD WEATHER IN THE MEDITERRANEAN.

>> LET'S GO TO THE As.

>> I'M GIVING AN A TO WHAT THE NEW YORK TIMES CALLS SURPRISING GOOD NEWS.

MORE THAN 300 INDEPENDENT BOOKSTORES HAVE OPENED IN THE LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

THE PHOTO SHOWS A BOOKSTORE THAT OPENED IN NEW YORK CITY'S CHINATOWN IN 2021, WAS TUSHING A PROFIT WITHIN FOUR MONTHS.

MANY SMALL BOOKSTORES SHUT DOWN EARLY IN THE PANDEMIC, THEY HAVE RALLIED, NEW ONES HAVE OPENED, MAKING MORE MONEY THAN IN THE PAST AND MANY OF THE NEW BOOKSTORES ARE RUN BY NON-WHITE BOOK SELLERS, ESPECIALLY WOMEN.

>> NINA.

>> BY THE TIME THIS SHOW AIRS, 99% OF HUMANS WILL HAVE EXPERIENCED DAYLIGHT AT THE SAME TIME.

EVERY YEAR AROUND THIS TIME, THE SUN'S RAYS BECOME NEARLY UNESCAPABLE FOR ABOUT 99% OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION AND BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL STUCK BETWEEN DUSK AND DAWN.

I THINK IT'S GREAT TO KNOW THAT THE SUN SHINES ON ALL OF US AT THE SAME TIME AT SOME POINT.

>> BEAUTIFUL.

>> VERY NICE.

>> ANIRBAN.

>> MY A GOES TO THE SCIENTIST AND GENIUS AROUND THE WORLD OF GIVING US AMAZING IMAGES OF THE OLDEST STARS OF THE UNIVERSE WITH THE JAMES WEBB SPACE TELESCOPE.

YOU CAN SEE SIDE BY SIDE COMPARISON.

THE LEFT ONE IS THE OLDER ONE AND THE RIGHT ONE IS THE NEWER TELESCOPE.

THIS CLUSTER IS 4.6 BILLION YEARS AWAY, LIGHT YEARS AWAY.

SO YOU KNOW, IT'S FANTASTIC FEAT.

>> THAT'S PRETTY FAR.

LUKE.

>> MY A GOES TO THE 10,000 PARTICIPANTS IN THE UTICA BOIRM, THE BOILERMAKER.

IT RUSHED TO NORMAL THIS YEAR.

>> THE BOILER THERE THE MAKER FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT BEEN TO THE RACE OR THE PARTY, HAVE YOU TO PUT IT ON YOUR TO DO LIST.

YOUR BUCKET LIST AS THEY SAY.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF WOULD YOU LIKE TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY AND FOR ALL OF US AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.