♪♪ >> The director of the Office of Public Engagement at the White House and senior adviser to the President of the United States, Steve Benjamin, next on "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity, and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and in our communities.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute -- through API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.

♪♪ >> We're so honored to have the director of the Office of Public Engagement for the White House and senior adviser to the President of the United States.

Mayor Steve Benjamin, welcome.

>> Hey, thank you so much for having me, Dr. Chavis.

>> Tell us about where you were brought up.

>> Sure.

You know, my family originated from Orangeburg, South Carolina, the home of S.C. State and Claflin and the like.

But they migrated to New York City just after they were married.

I was born and raised in South Jamaica, Queens, and then came right back to South Carolina as soon as I finished high school.

And it's been home for the most part.

I spent a little time up in North Carolina after I finished law school.

But Columbia's been home for me.

It's been a wonderful home, very good to me.

Started a great business, service in politics, and started a family there.

>> Where did you go to law school?

>> I went to University of South Carolina undergrad and law school.

In undergrad, I was the college chapter president of the NAACP.

We grew it to the largest one in the country and got steeped in civil rights.

>> I've heard about the prowess and effectiveness of the NAACP at that time.

I think Dr. Gibson was over the state.

>> Bill Gibson and Nelson Rivers and others.

They gave us, as young people protesting about apartheid in South Africa, to take the Confederate battle flag off the state capitol and a sovereign position -- they gave us an amazing amount of latitude -- training and latitude -- so that we could operate in fearless mode to get things done, yeah.

>> Can you explain to us, what is the Office of Public Engagement in the White House?

You're the director of it.

Tell me what its function is.

>> Well, it's interesting, 'cause it's an interesting name.

People always ask that.

But what we basically are is, you think about the three estates.

You talk about the three branches of government, the fourth estate, the media.

We represent the fifth estate.

So we are the front door to the White House, the civil society.

So business, labor, civil-rights groups, our seniors, our youth, special issues like gun violence or working with the LGBT community, veterans.

So everything else that makes up civil society, we are the initial aperture into the White House and we make sure that their issues are addressed and that we serve as not just folks who share the president's and vice president's agenda and/or record of success, but, more so, we also do what my grandmother would say -- God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason.

You're supposed to listen twice as much as you talk.

So we listen to the community and bring ideas, hopes and dreams, and even constructive criticism back to the president in the White House.

>> In your current position, you know, you bring a lot of experience, first being the former mayor of Columbia, South Carolina.

A distinguished career there.

You said that the Office of Public Engagement listens to the American public.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> How does your political background before you got to the White House enhance your ability to do that?

>> Well, I had a wonderful run -- three terms as mayor of Columbia, just about -- just under 12 years.

And it was the privilege of a lifetime.

I was blessed to have the opportunity to serve as the first black mayor of Columbia, as well.

You know, I think it certainly prepared me for this experience, because local government gives you the power of proximity.

You know, my constituents could find me at church on Sunday, at post office, library, at the traffic light, you know?

And the ability to actually not just go to school and get the academic training that you need to be successful in these jobs, but also make sure you develop the emotional intelligence to know how to help people and answer their questions in a way that allows them to move on and go do the great things that God has in store for them, as well, that -- You learn that as a mayor on the local level.

So bringing that, obviously, and taking it to scale here in Washington is something that I've found very helpful, very helpful.

>> So, your career has been a person of accessibility.

You've been accessible.

>> Yes, sir.

Yes, sir.

>> At all levels -- the local level, the regional level, now the federal level.

>> Yeah.

>> How do you view the Office of Public Engagement when it has to deal with unions or labor issues?

You know, no matter what year we are, there's always contention between management and unions.

>> Well, the president and vice president have been very clear that we would break away from Reaganomics and we'd focus on what the press coined "Bidenomics" that he's now adopted it as his slogan, that we're focusing on building an economy from the bottom up and the middle out, that we're focusing on working families and making sure that everyone has a real pathway to the middle class.

And by doing that, it means that we had to take a significant step in changing the trajectory of this nation, investing in smart infrastructure, roads and bridges.

Under the former president, we had Infrastructure Week every week.

Now we legitimately have a trillion-dollar infrastructure decade, building roads and bridges and schools and airports, putting broadband into communities -- rural, urban, and suburban -- All across this country.

We saw the stresses of the pandemic and not having control of our supply chains around microchips and the like.

The president's passed policies through the CHIPS bill that have spurred domestic manufacturing to the point of increasing by over 200% since the end of 2021.

So you think about workers that now have significant, well-paying jobs, with or without a college degree, and having a clear path to the middle class and us making sure that we're not dependent on supply chains that rely on Asia anymore.

And we're seeing the same thing with the clean-energy investments through the Inflation Reduction Act, the largest investment in climate resilience in the history of the world.

This is all about making sure that our families are sustained, that workers have an ability again to do what, you know, my parents and I know your parents did, too -- make sure that our children can have a better future than we had.

And that's the president's focus.

>> So, you're giving affirmation that Bidenomics is working.

>> Oh, we're kicking butt and taking names, man.

We are -- If you just think about the African-American community, where the lowest unemployment rate since we've been keeping records, in 1972, the highest African-American labor participation rate, more small businesses and African-American businesses created in the last two-plus years than we've seen in 20.

The guys on the other side keep coming for the boss on crazy things.

The president and vice president are working diligently every single day across the globe and in communities on a very granular level to make sure that Americans win.

And the proof is in the pudding.

>> So, you work with the president very closely as a senior adviser.

That means you spend time with the president.

>> Yes, sir.

>> The mainstream media seems to be speculative and always questioning the president's age.

As a person who works directly with President Biden, do you think age is a factor of his effectiveness?

>> No, man, I think age is one of his superpowers.

With age comes wisdom... >> Yes.

>> ...comes experience.

You know, the good thing about experience is that you got to go through something.

But this age thing -- they used that in 2020, when he kicked their butts.

They used it in 2022, when he did it again.

As someone who has gray hairs now -- and I know you share that, as well -- I would take a 53-year-old Steve Benjamin over a 23-year-old Steve Benjamin every single day, just because of the experience that I had.

There's no more experienced president in the history of this country than Joe Biden, and that is inured to the benefit of Americans in a significant way.

>> So experience and wisdom counts.

>> In my book, it does.

And I think to the -- to most Americans, who -- As we get closer and closer to Election Day, everyone starts doubting.

And most people are busy, quite frankly, living their lives right now.

You know, we got to make sure that we pay the mortgage, pay the rent, we take care of our families, make sure our kids are getting a good education.

There's so many things that keep us occupied that ought to keep us occupied.

As we get closer and closer to the election, people are going to want that same stability and that character and that experience that Joe Biden represents.

And we're going to be all right.

>> In every administration, there's always questions of the relationship between the president and the vice president.

And certainly, under the Biden administration, again, there are forces out there that try to make some separation between the two.

As a senior adviser to President Biden, how have you observed the ability and the capacity of the vice president and the president to work together to solve our nation's problems?

>> Oh, I've watched them work together in a robust manner, and it's been exciting to watch.

And you think about this -- there are a number of major decisions the president has to make, but probably, I'd say the first decision is, "Will I serve?"

And, obviously, the president speaks very eloquently about his experience watching Charlottesville and determining that he had to get back in the arena.

The third decision is probably, "Will I go to war?

Will we send American soldiers across the oceans to fight and defend this country?"

But probably right in between, right between those is the second-most-important decision, that if God were to ever call me to glory, the one thing we can't control in life, who will lead this nation?

Who will lead the essential nation?

Who has the experience, the character, the credibility, the emotional intelligence to take this country to the next level?

And he made that decision.

It was Kamala Harris.

Their connection is real, their partnership is genuine, and they work together every single day.

I've seen it and I'm excited about continuing to be a part of their team.

>> Of all the current programs that you're working on now, what has been -- what has given you the greatest response from the American people?

>> Oh, man.

You know, it's been exciting.

You know, we're in an implementation mode.

You think about the historic Inflation Reduction Act, the infrastructure bill, the CHIPS bill, the American Rescue Plan.

We're talking about reinvesting in America to the tune of well over $3 trillion.

But, just as I mentioned, the insulin and some of the things that just are -- It may be the mayor in me, but they're just downright granular, in which you can immediately see how a child tax credit cut child poverty in half in this country, you know, just like that.

>> Say that again.

>> The child tax credit cut child poverty in half in this country -- >> For all children?

>> Yeah.

Exactly.

So, the policy decisions -- Being able to see the impact of what might be macro-policy decisions on the micro level and continued advocacy, again, that the president has every day -- I get calls regularly from people who've had their student loans forgiven.

The president had his initiative that the Supreme Court upended, and he just couldn't stop, wouldn't stop.

And on almost every single week, we've watched a new measure that now we've forgiven over $120 billion in student loans.

I mean, changing people's lives, their entire life's trajectory.

It's a special moment to be serving the United States of America, and I'm looking forward to continue to do so.

>> The Biden-Harris administration seems to be the most diverse administration in American history.

Racial diversity, gender diversity, age diversity.

>> Sure.

>> Tell us, from your perspective, how has diversity enhanced the ability of the federal government to take care of the nation's business?

>> We are by far the most diverse administration.

And, obviously, you think about a table.

If you have everybody around the table with the same background, same experience making big decisions, you're going to make some bad decisions.

You want different people, different backgrounds sharing the life experiences, helping them form what we're doing.

When you think about the power of diversity, a third of the president's appointments to the federal bench have been African-American.

He's appointed more black women to the federal appeals court than every single president combined.

You think about the power of that and how that's going to influence our judiciary for the next 20-plus years.

There's power in making sure that everyone in this country has a voice in helping shape their government and shaping this great republic.

So that diversity matters, and even more so now.

I'll stop here.

Every single piece of legislation the president's passed, every executive order, indeed, his very first executive order, made a commitment to equity in everything that the administration does.

It is the connective tissue between the Biden-Harris administration and the sacred trust they have with the American people.

And I would ask people to dial in to the Biden-Harris agenda, and I think they will see it represents the best of America.

>> Steve Benjamin, what gives you your greatest hope for the future?

>> My greatest hope for the future is, I have a chance to see the overall vision of our ancestors manifested.

My job as a man, as a provider, as a father is to make sure that happens with my children.

And now having the opportunity to not just watch my two teenage girls, one who's at Spelman and the other one who's 16 years old, trying to take over the world, but having the opportunity to make sure that their blessings are the same blessings that every child in this country has an opportunity to also take advantage of.

That's motivating.

It's exciting watching these young people become that much more connected with the movement that makes America America.

And, again, just very fortunate to be a part of it and looking forward to kind of taking the next few steps over the next several months.

>> Steve Benjamin, director of the Office of Public Engagement at the White House and senior adviser to President Biden, thank you so much for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Thank you so much, Doc, for having me.

God bless you.

>> Welcome back to "The Chavis Chronicles," Dr. John Hope Bryant.

Operation HOPE has helped thousands, hundreds of thousands of people.

Where do you get this energy, man?

Because a lot of people -- You know, I come out of the Civil Rights Movement and I know you've talked about from civil rights to silver rights.

>> Mm-hmm.

>> But tell us, man, what drove you to see the economic piece as a major driver for social change -- not only in America, but throughout the world?

>> Now, you know I'm a math guy, so I like accurate numbers.

So, we've helped, as you say, thousands and tens of thousands in the place we're at now, which is the city of Atlanta, but we actually have helped more than 4 million, globally, in the work since I founded it.

>> 4 million.

>> 4 million-plus.

And we've directed -- we've invested $4 billion, U.S., for home ownership, small-business ownership, entrepreneurship, emergency disaster response since our founding.

So, we're the largest community-based investor in underserved neighborhoods -- I don't know -- since forever, but it's -- You know, $4 billion is a lot of money.

You know, we're in 250 offices now in 40 states.

We're also the largest distribution center, the largest coach for folks, financial coach, in America's history.

So, in some ways, it's finishing what the Freedman's Bank started in 1865 with Abraham Lincoln and Frederick Douglass and what, of course, later on, Ambassador Andrew Young, with Dr. King, tried to continue, what you worked on also during -- People don't know.

Your work with Reginald Lewis and others during the Civil Rights Movement.

So I'm excited about it or I get energy about it because I see it as a part of a continuation, a relay race of a historical arc of change and transformation.

>> What is relevant today with the term Freedman's and the fulfillment of those promises made but not kept?

>> I'll answer those questions, which are excellent questions from you, as usual, but I also want to tell your audience, which is diverse, that, you know, being free today doesn't necessarily mean that you're white and whatever.

In fact, more -- There are more poor white people in America today than poor anybody else.

>> Well, most Americans don't understand that.

>> It's about knowledge capital.

It's about, yes, financial capital.

It's about, yes, access to capital.

You can't build a community without good -- without backing, financial backing.

You cannot build a community -- I'll say it -- without banking.

There are no billionaires without leverage.

Let me rephrase that.

There are no people who became billionaires without understanding good debt.

Leverage of capital.

So -- >> Good debt.

Most people think that all debt is bad debt.

>> Oh, that's wrong.

No, bad debt is financing jewelry.

[ Laughs ] Bad debt is financing, you know, a Hertz car rental or any car rental.

Bad debt is financing a ticket to a concert.

Bad debt is financing something that depreciates.

>> Depreciating assets versus appreciating assets.

>> Good debt is attached to something that might appreciate, and you build wealth in your sleep.

So, this building, commercial building, is good debt.

A home is certainly good debt.

Number-one way you build wealth in America is home ownership.

But 41%, 44% of black folks own a home.

>> 'Cause homes appreciate.

>> They appreciate in value.

Now, somebody who's watching this will say, "Aha!

We got them."

There's been several recessions, and I lost my rear end buying a home."

You shouldn't have sold, because the history of real estate in the history of the world is that real estate has never depreciated in value.

It's never gone down.

It goes up, it hits a dip, a recession, it dips, and then corrects above the line.

It dips, corrects above the line.

It dips, corrects above the line.

All you have to do is hold on.

>> So, geometrically, there's an incline.

>> By the way, this has been about money from day one, which now goes to your point about Field Action 15, which people call "40 acres and a mule."

It was signed in -- Well, the backstory is that there were some ministers who were asked, "What do you want after slavery?"

And this pastor was a thought leader, these pastors.

"What do you want after slavery?"

No welfare, no, you know, sad song, no -- >> They don't want charity.

They want the opportunity.

>> They want an opportunity.

So they said, "We want land.

We want to do for ourselves."

And so the the Secretary of War, General Stanton -- Secretary of War.

"Oh, my God.

Okay, this is impressive."

So, they said, "Well, we're going to assemble 400,000 acres."

That was along the coast from North Car-- we now know to be North Carolina down to Florida.

>> You got to say that again.

It was along the ocean coast.

We're talking about oceanfront property.

>> You're talking about beachfront.

To be very specific, this was beachfront property about 20 or 30 miles from the shore, back out.

And keep in mind, this was the least-attractive property at that point, because we lived in an agricultural age.

So that was not where people were planting seeds.

I mean, you put your seeds on the beach, it ends up in Jamaica tomorrow.

But it was a start.

So these folks said yes to that.

That land was from North Carolina all the way down to what we call North Florida.

And they worked that land so hard, that first 1,000 people worked that land so hard.

It was only 18,000 people, by the way, at its height.

You had millions of formerly enslaved people, about 4 million, but you had only 18,000 people who were Union soldiers who got this benefit -- this benefit, plus the Freedman's Bank.

I'll get to that in a second.

They worked that land so hard.

They said, "My God, they're so industrious.

Give them a mule."

That was like saying, "Give the farmer a tractor."

It wasn't charity.

It was an investment.

So you had 40 acres and a mule.

That was January 1865, February 1865, and in March 1865, Abraham Lincoln, inspired by another pastor out of New York, a black pastor who created the first Freedman's Bank and who inspired Congress and, thus, the president to bake that into the Freedmen's Bureau, there came a bank called the Freedman's Bank March 3, 1865, chartered to teach freed slaves about money.

Think what would have happened, Dr. Chavis, if that experiment had sustained and been expanded to all of the formerly enslaved people.

Again, that was only an experiment of 18,000.

We talk about 40 acres and a mule as if it was everybody.

It was only 18,000 formerly enslaved -- And that experiment only lasted a minute, because the new president that took over was a segregationist, and he cut a deal to take all federal troops out of the South in order to try to ensure his power base.

And so you had, for 100 years, federal laws that protected us in the South that were just not enforced for 100 years.

It's because federal law was being ignored and local laws were being put in place, called Jim Crow acts, to keep people from their rights and privileges.

In an economy when we're all tied in together, we all need each other.

So everybody needs financial literacy now.

Everybody needs to be educated.

Everybody needs to be rooting for this team called America, at least in this country, and wherever else you're watching this from, you need to be rooting for wherever you are.

Unless we want to speak Mandarin in the next 10 years, we'd better get our act together.

China can't win on a fair fight.

They got to cheat at capitalism.

They can only win if we keep arguing with each other and shooting each other in the foot and trying to handicap each other.

We got to realize that, actually, an educated population is how we all win.

And, so, I finally think that there's a moment now, this period I call the Third Reconstruction, where we're going to talk about for the first time, not red or blue politics.

Thank you for all your work, bipartisan matter.

Not white or black race.

But green.

>> So, John Hope Bryant, you're not only keeping hope alive, you're making hope thrive.

Thank you so much for joining "The Chavis Chronicles."

>> Honored to be with you.

>> For more information about "The Chavis Chronicles" and our guests, please visit our website at thechavischronicles.com.

Also, follow us on Facebook, X, formerly known as Twitter, LinkedIn, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok.

Major funding for "The Chavis Chronicles" is provided by the following.

At Wells Fargo, diverse representation and perspectives, equity, and inclusion is critical to meeting the needs of our colleagues, customers, and communities.

We are focused on our commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion both inside our company and in the communities where we live and work.

Together, we want to make a tangible difference in people's lives and in our communities.

Wells Fargo -- the bank of doing.

American Petroleum Institute -- through API's Energy Excellence Program, our members are committed to accelerating safety, environmental, and sustainability progress throughout the natural-gas and oil industry around the world.

Learn more at api.org/apiEnergyExcellence.

Reynolds American, dedicated to building a better tomorrow for our employees and communities.

Reynolds stands against racism and discrimination in all forms and is committed to building a more diverse and inclusive workplace.

At AARP, we are committed to ensuring your money, health, and happiness live as long as you do.

♪♪