- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of State of Affairs with Steve Adubato has been provided by Hackensack Meridian Health.

Keep getting better.

The New Jersey Education Association.

The North Ward Center.

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[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC] - Hi everyone, I'm Steve Adubato.

But way more importantly, we are joined by the governor of the great state of New Jersey, the honorable Phil Murphy.

Governor, great to have you with us.

- Thanks for having me back, Steve.

Great to be with you.

- You got it, governor, as I said, right before we got on the air, we'll cover as much ground as we can, but the depth and the substance of our conversation matters as well.

Also, we've gotten so many requests to ask the governor this, ask the governor that, but governor, let me start with this property tax in the state of New Jersey.

It is what it is.

Everyone knows among the highest property tax rates in the nation, the ANCHOR program, what is it?

And what is the most important aspect of it that helps to reduce property taxes in the state?

- Yeah.

- Also with renters as well, go ahead.

- Yep, great question.

And we are obsessed with affordability.

We have been from day one, but certainly in this high inflation environment, this is job number one for us.

So this is a big deal and it's not a one time gimmick.

This is gonna be an annual reality.

If you're a homeowner and you make up to $150,000, you get a $1,500 property tax rebate.

If you make up to $250,000, it's a thousand dollars.

And as you alluded to for the first time ever, there is relief for renters.

So if you make up to $150,000, it's a $450 rebate.

So if you step back and say, okay, what does all that tell you?

Well, the average property tax bill in our state is just under $10,000.

So this is literally as much as 15 to 18% property tax reduction.

This takes it back in many cases to like fiscal year, 2011.

It's a huge deal.

It's not the only thing we're doing on affordability, but it's the biggest one.

And I'm proud that we got it done with the legislature.

- Governor, on the issue of cost of living in New Jersey, it's anecdotal, but you hear it all the time.

I hear it as well that the cost of living in the state is so high is not your administration.

It's many administrations up to yours.

And a lot of other factors.

I've asked you this before, and you've pushed back.

I said, "Governor, we're losing a significant number of folks, particularly higher income earners, higher income earners to Florida, mostly Florida."

And you said, Steve, that's just not true.

Anecdotally, you're hearing it as well governor and them not having an income tax is part of it.

And Governor DeSantis is doing everything he can to get folks down there.

Where do you believe we are in terms of losing New Jerseyans to states like Florida?

- Yeah, it's a great question.

The census in the last decade showed that we grew about average for an American state, five and a quarter percent.

Since then, the growth has only gone up largely for awful reasons.

And that's the pandemic.

I think it's also for some good reasons that we are true to our bumper sticker.

Every state has a bumper sticker, Florida, I guess is no income tax and warm weather.

Ours is the number one state in America to raise a family.

The data doesn't show that we're losing the high earners.

That's not to say some aren't leaving, but there are more coming than leaving by a meaningful amount.

The exposure that we have Steve though, and I'm not blind to this and this is real.

Are the retirees who own a home whose kids have graduated from our best of nation public schools.

Why do I say that?

Because 53% of your property tax bill on average in New Jersey is for public education.

That's the group that we're most exposed to in terms of leaving, which is why that ANCHOR program, it's huge for working families, huge for middle class.

I don't think it's bigger for anybody than it is for our seniors, particularly seniors who own their home.

- If you're listening to us on the radio side, on public radio, WBGO, WNYC, other places.

We're talking to Governor Phil Murphy about a range of issues on the broadcast side streaming as well on digital platforms.

Governor, lemme try this, immigration, as we speak governors again, I'm not gonna make this about DeSantis in Florida, but DiSantis and also Abbott, I believe in Texas, people are being put on buses, going to states.

And I don't know anyone in New Jersey yet, governor, as we speak on the 20th of September.

- As we speak, no, but I suspect it is only a matter of time.

- Okay, so let's play this out.

I don't know what's being told and you don't know what's being told to those folks who are getting on those buses, but Texas and Florida saying "Not here, "go to other states that are either sanctuary city, states, whatever they'll take you in."

That approach or that, it's not even a policy, those actions how would you characterize those actions?

'Cause many of those folks don't know where they're going, why they're going there and what's gonna happen on the other end.

And I'm also told governor that public officials, on the other end are not even being told beforehand who's coming and why they're coming.

Loaded question, I know governor.

- Yeah, that last point I have no insight.

So I don't have any insight as to whether or not they've been given advanced notice.

Let me be critical first and get that out of the way.

And then, hopefully address the fundamental issue.

I think it's despicable to use human beings, particularly human beings are who are fleeing a desperate situation as it is in Venezuela to use them as pawns and to be less than forthright with them.

I'm not a lawyer, I wasn't there, but I'm told that they're agreeing to go on these buses or planes based on false premises.

If that's true, that's just not right.

So let me just say that using humans as pawns is despicable.

Having said that, we have an immigration crisis in our country that's been building a long time and we need to get around a bipartisan table and figure it out.

And that is, and I've always thought there's a deal to be made here, which includes on the one hand, intelligent securing of our borders.

And on the other hand embracing the fact that we are an immigrant nation and immigration done the right way is a hallmark of our country's history.

And by the way, in a country, I'll speak for New Jersey where I can't, I don't speak to any small business, restaurant, bar, you name it, who can right now staff up to the extent they need to, with our unemployment rate at or near an all time record low, it's not just the humane thing to do.

It's the smart right thing to do consistent with our great American history.

Again, but part of that has to be intelligent, smart, securing of our borders.

That to me is a deal that can be done.

I hope it can be done, we'll be a better country for it.

- I'm gonna, I hope, I have so many questions that came in, I'm getting too many of them.

And so many of you asked the same question of the governor, which is why I'm not giving 10 different names per question, but I'm gonna try this governor.

Childcare we have in a series and many series called Reimagine Childcare.

You've talked to us about it in the past.

The first lady Tammy Murphy has talked about her concerns in that regard and her initiatives in that regard.

My understanding is that there's approximately $700 million of childcare money that the state is dedicating to improving the childcare situation in the state.

And it was approved I believe in the fall of 2021, Governor is that money being held up in the quote unquote regulatory process to get to childcare centers.

And if so, why is that?

- Yeah, well most, if not all of that is federal money and when you put federal money to work, you have to jump through a lot of hoops, a significant amount of that money is on the street, but there's a significant amount that we're still trying to get on the street.

That's the case, by the way, probably across the board for anything that's federal, it is the nature of the beast.

You've gotta, as I mentioned, you've gotta go through a lot of hoops to make sure you do it right, by the way, largely for the right reasons.

You wanna make sure this does what it's supposed to do.

It gets into the hands it's supposed to get to, et cetera, but we are committed.

We know that we cannot get back to the employment levels that we need to be at, particularly among moms, particularly, even more so among single moms, unless we have a really robust childcare backbone in our state.

I think we're, I wouldn't trade our hand with any other state in America, but we're not where we need to be yet.

And we will stay at it until we are.

- Governor, we clearly have a shortage of teachers.

Many have argued we're bordered on a crisis.

The term crisis is used too often.

And very often it's actually accurate.

That being said, in terms of the regulatory process, in terms of the approval process, there are many states that are, Florida being one of them.

I don't wanna keep talking about Florida, but again, that are making it easier for people to teach in classrooms without certification, teacher certification.

What do you believe is one substantive policy change that would help ease the teacher shortage crisis in our state?

- Yeah, so we've already done a couple of things, Steve, and I'll highlight them very briefly.

And then one other one, which is probably gonna have been baked by the time this airs, number one, we made it easier for retired teachers to come back in the classroom, even on a temporary basis without upsetting their pension circumstances.

Secondly, we made it much more flexible for qualified substitute teachers to come in from the bullpen.

Thirdly, what we're working on now with the various stakeholders, including most importantly, the educators is trying to find that, and we think we can, that holy grail, common ground of streamlining certification, making it more straightforward.

But, and this is unlike Florida, not giving up on the quality.

We have the number one public education system in America.

That is a precious asset in so many respects.

So can we streamline that process and still keep the quality high?

I believe the answer is resoundingly yes, but that's three quick examples.

One we're not doing yet, I was in the White House a few weeks ago on this very topic.

I like what other states, Tennessee was the example that day that are doing with apprenticeship programs.

And that's something that we're looking at very closely right now.

Get it people earlier, even that we're getting to them and make sure we use that, we take that profession of being an educator and make sure it's up on a pedestal as it should be.

- Governor, since you mentioned the White House, let's get it out of the way.

So you're there, you're speaking with President Joe Biden, correct?

- Yes.

- Okay.

The president gave an interview right before, a few days before we're doing this interview at 60 minutes and he wasn't crystal clear about running for reelection in 2024.

He said his, was his intention, but who knows what could happen?

I'm paraphrasing, check it out the interview yourself.

If the president did not run for reelection in 2024, is it a job that intrigues you?

And if so, why?

- Yeah, I'd rather not, Steve, get into the hypotheticals.

I suspect there will be, I don't know, dozens of Democrats who will kick the tires if the president were to say, I'm not running, but the fact of the matter is, and he said this publicly and he said it, he said this publicly.

And he and I discussed it privately.

I said, listen, Mr. President, you say you're running.

I've known you a long time.

I take you on your word and assuming you are running, there will be no stronger supporter than yours truly.

And that to me is the base case right now.

I also think it's hard to argue against the following observation.

He's had one heck of a few months here across a whole range of interests.

- You mean the last few months, you're not the last, - The last few months.

-There have been a whole range, you don't mean before that, 'cause we can go through a series of things that did not go well for this administration in our nation, go ahead.

- I mean the past few months, huge bill to help our veterans, bipartisan, infrastructure law, bipartisan chips technology, got through a huge climate and healthcare law, killed one of the biggest, most senior terrorists out there that's killed a lot of our blessed service members.

I could go on, but that's a pretty productive summer.

And I think he deserves that praise and he deserves the right to have the position he is on running again.

- Steve Adubato, Governor Phil Murphy, we're gonna take a break for just a few seconds and we're right back right after this.

- [Narrator] To watch more State of Affairs with Steve Adubato, find us online and follow us on social media.

- Welcome back.

Steve Adubato, talking with the honorable Phil Murphy, the governor of great state of New Jersey.

Governor, real quick on small business, we had representatives from the Business and Industry Association saying that in the last budget, we also talked to Tim Sullivan, the head of the economic development authority about this.

And he represented the administration well, but I said, we'd have the governor on and I'd ask him this.

Some at the Business and Industry Association, some of the small business community have said not enough direct state aid, too small businesses tied into a budget.

The last budget struck at the end of June, you say?

- Well, there's a significant amount of that budget, but look more broadly.

I think since the beginning of the pandemic, we have put-- a lot of it's come from Tim Sullivan in the EDA and he's done a great job.

I think something like $900 million of the street for small businesses that puts us only behind California and New York.

And they're a lot bigger than we are.

So per capita, we're far and away punching at the highest weight.

Having said that, we are not impervious to the pain, we are not suggesting that we're done.

We're not suggesting that this is behind us.

So we do have money in the budget and small business owners out there should know we're gonna stay with them until everybody is back on their feet and whole again.

- Governor, let me ask you this, you know that we don't do politics per se.

We do policy and try to focus on not on horse race, but on things that really matter in people's lives.

But in the last election, in a state that it has a million more plus Democrats than Republicans, it was a relatively tight race.

Is there any aspect of your first term that you said, particularly dealing with the pandemic that you say, you know what?

I could have and should have handled that better.

And whether it had an impact on the election, who knows you still won, you're still governor, first term, you know what, could have, should have done better at that?

What would it be governor?

- Well, I don't, we're gonna do a full recounting on the pandemic.

And even by the time this show airs, there may have been news on that front.

So I'll leave that to a completely independent assessment.

But I will say this, I think the big wake up call, we were on affordability.

I think we needed to be on it on steroids.

And by the way, we got that message.

And that's exactly what we're doing.

The ANCHOR Property Tax Relief Program is the big gorilla program that we've got in place, which we mentioned earlier, but affordability, it seems to me was the screaming message.

Don't forget, please remain at our kitchen table, please remain relevant as government.

I think we were.

And by the way, what's my evidence, we won?

But your good question is probably a narrower victory than some might have expected.

I think affordability is the one area that we said, you know what, that's where we gotta double down, triple down and we've done just that.

And we'll stay in that posture.

- You know, governor, it's easy to Monday morning quarterback and look back and say, why didn't he, why didn't they, why didn't she?

But question, I've asked you about this pandemic question before about the nursing homes, the decision you made and at the time Governor Cuomo.

And I don't know if you made it separately, collectively, I'm not sure, but it's your decision and your administration and Department of Health together.

But you've always stepped up and said, yeah, my call, if you had known what you found out later on about sending folks who went from nursing homes to the hospital and then back into the nursing home, that it would've, who knows if it spread the virus?

But it was problematic.

I don't wanna answer the question for you, but in retrospect, do you look back and go, you know what?

Should have handled that differently.

- So I don't normally argue with the premise of your question, Steve, as you know, but the premise is not.

- Free to go ahead, governor, feel free, go ahead.

- The premise is not accurate.

We actually didn't do that.

We did the exact opposite.

I can't speak for New York, but both Judy Persichilli and I were crystal clear.

- Commissioner of Health.

- You betcha, about the protocols of any returning residents.

I say residents, remember this is their home, importantly, folks forget that, we were crystal clear about segregating by floor, by wing, if possible, by building, if you have more than one building and that included not just the residents, but the staff.

So we were absolutely crystal clear about that.

Did some homes violate that?

Sadly, probably yes.

And to some extent the Attorney General has been on top of that.

So, I don't wanna speak for him, but.

- We'll have the Attorney General on talking about that.

I'm sorry, governor.

- Yeah, just to say we were crystal clear in our directions on returning residents.

- Okay, so clarify this for us.

A fair number of people, Tom from Monmouth county, Linda from Essex county wanted to know about sex education in our schools.

We've had many legislators, particularly Republican legislators saying that the state of New Jersey, the Department of Education, our public schools, our teachers are trying to indoctrinate young children regarding sexual orientation, gender issues, et cetera, explicit sexual acts being taught to young children.

What's fact, what's fiction?

- Yeah, well, a lot of that is fiction, the state Board of Education, by the way, this was voted on several years ago.

None of the members who voted on this were appointed by me, I have to say, so I just wanna make that point.

But having said that, this went through a process and we support the outcome.

And sadly, you've got a lot of folks throwing stuff out there, as you rightfully point out in your question, that's fiction and not fact, and sadly, even more it's being used to sort of demonize certain populations.

And as usual, the LGBTQIA+ community in particular gets demonized.

This is age appropriate stuff.

And I'll give you two examples.

At the youngest ages, it is very much in the vein of "girls don't always have to wear pink, "boys don't always have to wear blue."

There are only subjects or sports that girls can pursue, versus what boys can pursue.

The point is you could grow up no matter who you are to be anybody in the United States of America, certainly in New Jersey.

That to me is an incredibly empowering message for little kids.

The other example, let's get up now, you're through puberty, again it's age appropriate.

So this gradually gets up to more age appropriate, explicit stuff.

We absolutely wanna make sure that girls and boys know what is acceptable behavior and what is unacceptable behavior.

So they know where that line is drawn.

And if they, if someone is putting unacceptable behavior on them, they know when to raise their hand and tell somebody about it.

I'll speak as a parent.

I want my kids to know that.

I don't wanna, they don't need to know it when they're five years old, but there's a certain age where they do need to know that.

- And so, excuse me governor, people say, let the parent, let the governor Murphy as a parent, say it, but not a teacher, you say?

- So guess what?

We have an opt out program where if you're a parent and you're uncomfortable with the school teaching that, you can opt your child out and do it at home, I think that's a fair deal.

- Something you can't opt out of is if congestion pricing becomes a reality, governor's short version, congestion, congestion pricing is what, and what's your position?

- Yeah, so New York City wants to have a central business district in Manhattan where they would charge vehicles, not just coming from New Jersey, but frankly from other parts of New York City and Long Island.

And here's my response, our commuters, and by the way, mitigating climate is something that we're probably leading the nation in.

So it's not like I've got a conceptual problem, but here are my two problems.

Number one, I can't allow New Jersey commuters to be double taxed.

It would be significant in the Lincoln and Holland.

It would be outrageous over the GW bridge.

And secondly, because of all the inaction before we got here, we don't have the extra two rail tunnels under the Hudson.

We don't have a new Port Authority bus terminal.

We don't have the option, the realistic option for a New Jersey commuter in the scale that this would require to say, you know what?

I'm gonna leave my car at home and take the bus or train, we're getting there someday we will, but we're not there yet.

- Got it, governor real quick on this.

We'll have the head of the board of public utilities, Joe Fiordaliso to talk about clean energy, but there have been Republican legislators, particularly senator Tony Bucco.

As we tape today, he was on saying, "It just costs too much.

It'll cost $75,000 for a family to implement the governor's clean energy plan to go from where we are to fully electric in our homes, too much."

You say?

- Yeah, I'm not sure where, Tony's a good guy.

He's a good friend.

I'm not sure where he got that number from, but we're gonna do this.

We're gonna transition to a 100% clean energy, New Jersey by the middle of this century, you can put that in the bank, but you can also put in the bank.

We're not gonna do it on the back of the rate payer.

We're not gonna do it on the back of the residence period.

We'll do this in a way that's responsible, but we will get there.

We're the most densely populated state in America.

We have no choice.

- Clarify this, abortion rights in New Jersey after the Supreme, United States Supreme Court decided to overturn Roe versus Wade with other states doing all kinds of things.

Once the state, excuse me, the Supreme court said, let the states decide many states are making it more restrictive than ever before.

What is the situation in New Jersey?

- Well, thank God before Roe V Wade, or before the Dobbs decision came down, I had already codified in law, signing a bill in January of this year, that protected a woman's right to abortion.

So that thank God is done.

Before that, prior to that bill, all of the protections and freedoms were based on case law, which all of which are in turn based on Roe V. Wade, so that would've gone away immediately in New Jersey.

That's not the case.

So please God, we're standing on the right side of history on the right side of women's right to choose.

And the thing that would, the only thing that could trump our state is if you had a federal law passed and signed by a president, and I would just remind everybody out there, that's why elections have consequences, both these midterm elections and ultimately who the president of the United States is, but I'm proud of where New Jersey is.

And we are a stark contrast sadly to a whole lot of states right now in America.

- One final follow up and I have about 30 seconds left, but is the codifying of abortion rights in New Jersey?

Does it mean at any point in a woman's pregnancy: all nine months?

- It does.

It does.

- It does.

Okay.

- Correct.

- Governor, I just wanna say thank you for not only being with us once again for a full half hour and to those who asked so many questions of the governor, we tried to get as many in as possible governor, but thank you for answering every question for being accessible.

And also thank the First Lady who's joined us many, many times to talk about the work she's doing on behalf of the state as well.

Governor to you and your family, we wish you all the best.

- Thank you for your kind words.

Same right back, Steve.

I'll make sure to pass them on to Tammy as well, take care.

- Thank you, I'm Steve Adubato.

More importantly, that's the Governor of New Jersey, Phil Murphy.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato Is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by Hackensack Meridian Health.

The New Jersey Education Association.

The North Ward Center.

Rowan University.

PSE&G, The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

Veolia, Operating Engineers, Local 825.

Eastern Atlantic States Regional Council of Carpenters.

And by these public spirited organizations, individuals and associations committed to informing New Jersey citizens about the important issues facing the Garden State.

And by Employers Association of New Jersey.

Promotional support provided by ROI-NJ.

And by Insider NJ.

- Many of New Jersey'’s children have been affected by Covid-19, but now that there'’s a safe and effective vaccine available for children ages twelve and older you can help make COVID-19 history by getting yourself and your child vaccinated.

Let'’s end this pandemic together and help all children get back to being kids.

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