- [Narrator] Funding for this edition of One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been provided by RWJBarnabas Health.

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- This is One-On-One.

- I'm an equal American just like you are.

- The way we change Presidents in this country is by voting.

- A quartet is already a jawn, it'’s just The New Jawn.

- January 6th was not some sort of violent, crazy outlier.

- I don't care how good you are or how good you think you are, there is always something to learn.

- I mean what other country sends comedians over to embedded military to make them feel better.

- People call me 'cause they feel nobody's paying attention.

-_ It'’s not all about memorizing and getting information, it'’s what you do with that information.

- (slowly) Start talking right now.

- That's a good question, high five.

(upbeat music) - Hi everyone.

Steve Adubato.

Way more importantly, we are honored to welcome the 56th governor of the great state of New Jersey, governor Phil Murphy.

Governor, we're honored to have you with us.

Thank you.

- Steve, thank you so much for having me.

It's good to be back.

- You got it.

By the way, the governor was just talking about the Hall of Fame, New Jersey Hall of Fame, and we have so many issues to cover.

But real quick, governor, we were backstage with the governor at the Hall of Fame.

We were honored to have my dad inducted, but so many other really terrific people were inducted, and you were there to be very involved.

The importance of that event to New Jersey and all our great citizens, please.

- I think it's a big deal.

I was skeptical as a private citizen way back when it first started, but I'm not anymore.

This is a big deal.

It's a real sort of cool factor.

You know, you and I were backstage with Bruce Springsteen, Steve Van Zandt.

You were honoring your dad.

I honored George Schultz, who was one of my mentors when I was ambassador.

The founder and creator of "Sopranos."

Danny DeVito was the host.

I mean, you could go on and on and on.

I think it's a real badge of honor.

- I appreciate that, governor.

But let's just say that the boss, Bruce Springsteen, was only talking to one of us privately, and it wasn't me, it was you.

(Phil laughs) Let's get that outta the way.

Governor, let's do this.

Substantive issues, one of the first ones.

Really important.

Orsted Wind Energy.

We've been doing very important public awareness programming around the Clean Energy Initiative in the state, and also people with different points of view.

Orsted drops out, right?

You go to bat for them.

The legislature supports the effort to bolster Orsted, if you will, and to keep them in the game.

Wind energy, one of the biggest in the world as a company, right?

And then they go, "Yeah, we're outta here now.

The economics don't work."

They... What was your take on how that could have ever been avoided?

Or was Orsted ever really committed to wind energy in the state?

- I can't speak for them, Steve, but I think they were committed, that they're a global player in this industry.

I guess the good news and bad news, I'll start as I always do with the bad news, it was amateur hour by then.

Bad actor.

That's the bad news.

And this is a speed bump.

It's gonna elongate, at least to some extent, 'till we reach our goal.

But the good news is, and there's lots of data around this.

Overwhelmingly, offshore wind is gonna happen in New Jersey, and there's lots of interest.

By the time this show airs, the Board of Public Utilities is in the middle of their third solicitation.

I'm told there's a lot of interest.

I will have initiated their fourth solicitation to take place early in 2024 because of the demand.

So this is, we'll get there.

It's a ton of union jobs.

It's the smart environmental thing to do for the most densely populated state in America.

I, you know, I'm not happy with Orsted, and we're fighting like heck to keep a big slug of the 300 million that they owe us, but we move on.

Offshore wind will be a reality in New Jersey.

- Governor, speaking of moving on, you've heard this quote, and sometimes I think you wish you never said it.

"I'm going to fix," okay, you finish the rest.

Go ahead, governor.

I'm gonna fix what?

- "I'm gonna fix NJ Transit if it kills me."

- Okay.

It hasn't, thank God.

It hasn't been fixed and you're still here doing important things.

Governor, what the heck is standing the way?

Forget about fixing it.

Just making it significantly better when it comes to customer service, being on time, communicating effectively.

It's a mess.

Please.

- I don't agree, but I do agree with the part I'm still alive, by the way.

I don't agree with the lack of progress or the premise of the question, Steve.

They've made dramatic improvements on on time, on safety, on communications, messaging through apps, et cetera.

Reliability.

We're also, you know, greening the organization slowly but surely, but they're held back by a couple of things that we're working through.

But I'll give you the big one.

The fact that my predecessor canceled the earlier version of Gateway.

Which, if folks aren't familiar with this, this is to add two more rail tunnels under the Hudson and then rehab the two that are there, which were built, by the way, in 1910.

Why is that important?

Well, if you live in a community like Westfield, that's preventing you from that elusive long sought after one seat ride.

So we're finally, finally, our administration, the Biden administration.

This thing is happening.

It'll take a number of years.

And we're beholden to another one.

We're beholden to Amtrak, particularly with their summer chaos, but we're making meaningful progress.

The the next big one at NJ Transit is when the federal support runs out over the next year and a half, we're gonna make sure that they're in a good financial place.

And we're working morning, noon, and night on that front.

- Governor, you mentioned the federal government.

Let's put things in perspective.

By the way, we're talking to the 56th governor of the great state of New Jersey, Governor Phil Murphy.

We're honored to have him with us.

Governor.

The feds.

Billions of dollars come into New Jersey, and other states.

But let's talk about New Jersey.

'Cause that's our responsibility here.

COVID money, federal relief money, that money's drying up very quickly.

That being said, where do you see the fiscal picture 2024 in the state of New Jersey, particularly as it relates to the state budget, which has grown considerably, but a lot of that because of that federal money.

What do you see the fiscal future of the state governor for the state?

- Yeah.

Yes and no on the growth part.

A lot of it also, Steve, two things.

Our revenues are up dramatically, which tells you that the state is a lot healthier in terms of the economy.

- Sales tax.

Sorry for interrupting, governor.

Sales tax, income tax?

- Running year to date, we're within a few hundred million of what our projections were.

But I mean, over the past six years since we've been in office.

- Please.

- The numbers have gone up because revenues had been strong and we get to make up for a lot of bad behavior that preceded us on both sides of the aisle.

So, when you're paying each year $7 billion into a pension system, as compared to years past, people say, "Oh my God, expenses are outta control."

That's actually making up for past bad behavior.

In terms of the general economic picture, I think the near term feels soft to me.

I know inflation is coming down, but it sure doesn't feel that way when you're in a grocery store or a gas station.

Mortgage rates are still very high.

Soft in the near term of a huge bull on Jersey's economy in the medium to long term.

Everything from the usual anchors like pharmaceutical, biolife science, tech, telecom, to the new ones like film, television, digital, I think increasingly generative artificial intelligence.

We are an innovation economy.

Let's own that space.

So, soft in the near term.

Again, that's largely due to stuff that we have nothing to do with.

Interest rates, federal reserve, two wars, et cetera.

But a huge bull in medium to long.

- Governor, it's a couple times that you've mentioned your predecessor, former governor, Chris Christie.

And I ask folks to check out previous interviews we've got done with former Governor Christie.

He'll be back on again.

We don't know how things are gonna play out in another race he's involved in, having nothing to do with the governorship, but a different race for national office.

That being said, governor, I'm curious about this because, you know, I'm a student of leadership, right?

You and I talk about it all the time.

You mentioned your predecessor, but what I'm curious about is, and I've asked you about this before.

As it relates to being governor, during the worst crisis of our lifetime, 9/11 being what it was, COVID being what it was, and to some extent still is.

There's a question here, trust me.

I've asked you about the decisions that you've made.

I didn't have to make them, you had to make them.

Nursing homes, veteran homes.

Who had COVID, who got went back into them, what happened to folks who were there?

And I've often asked you, do you...

I use the term mulligan.

If you had a redo, would you have done the same thing with the information you had?

A and B, what lesson did you learn from the COVID situation at veterans and/or nursing homes, please?

- Yeah.

So, a couple things.

First on Chris, in fairness to him, the pension fiasco, 25 years of not making a full payment was governors on both sides of the isle.

And frankly, in his case, he probably may put more on the pension than the other governors in that period.

On the one hand, on NJ transit and the wreck we inherited, guilty as charged.

So it depends on what the issue is.

And I think in fairness, always, I'm gonna give him credit, he's prosecuting a heck of a case against Donald Trump.

I wish he had done that in 2016, but he's in a lane that I think needs to be filled in the Republican primary.

May I say this on COVID?

To the best of our knowledge, we are the only state in America right now doing a completely independent arms length soup to nuts postmortem on everything we did during COVID.

I'm virtually certain no other state is doing that.

It's costing us a lot of money and a lot of resources, but we owe it to ourselves.

And I promised that from the earliest days of the pandemic.

- When is that report due, governor?

- I don't know.

Actually, I'm being interviewed right around the time that this is airing.

So I would hope it's sooner than later.

My guess is, if I had to put a pin in it, would be first quarter of 2024.

And it's both a law firm and a consulting firm that are doing a completely, end-to-end, thorough responsibility.

So there's two things I would say.

I wish I knew what president Trump knew early on when we weren't getting the information that none of us, no American state was.

That's the biggest regret I have.

Obviously, we lost 35,000 people.

So, the loss of life is crushing.

Obviously, they're gone, and their families who remain.

But there are two, and by the way, the report that the feds on our early veterans home work was completely unacceptable, which has led us to, with working with the legislature, we're gonna restructure the entire veterans' home reality.

- On the nursing homes.

It's one thing to say you regret that you wish you had of known what the President then, Donald Trump.

You know, when people can decide for themselves how the President handled or did not handle COVID.

But forget about the report for a second.

In terms of your sense, you've always been upfront and candid about your own performance.

Is there a part of you that says, "I wish I had done something different as it relates to their nursing homes?"

- Well, I'll give you an example, Steve, When you're doing a full post-mortem, that's independent and I have nothing to do with it.

The referees will assess better than I what worked and what didn't work.

I mean, we're literally gonna have a set of referees like you would in a football game that are gonna call balls, and strikes, or I guess, mixing metaphors.

But I'll give you an example of something that, and you could look the tape up.

In March, April, May of 2020, there was a huge debate among healthcare professionals at the highest level.

Tony Fauci and everybody else.

Whether or not masks were good or bad.

Literally, you can look it up.

It's hard to believe that now, right?

- There was a debate then.

- Huge debate.

So certainly, part of my answer has to be, "Geez, I wish the health professionals said from day one, 'Put a damn mask on!'

Whether you're a patient or whether you're working there."

There's another myth out there, which is less to do with veterans, but I do wanna address it because it lingers for reasons I'm not sure I understand.

Judith Persichilli was crystal clear, amplified by me.

And remember, these nursing homes are not like hotels.

These are residences.

This is where people actually live out their lives.

- Judith Persichilli, the health commissioner.

I'm sorry, governor.

The health commissioner at the time.

Go ahead.

- Former.

Correct.

We were crystal clear that when you were re-emitting somebody from the hospital or you had a patient who had COVID who wasn't in the hospital, segregation by, minimally, floor.

Better, wing.

Even better, building, if you've got more than one.

And staff the same way.

Did some of these operators violate that?

I'm afraid yes, they did.

That was not the direction they got from us.

We were crystal clear about segregating residents.

- You trusted them, Governor, to do what they said they would do and they did not.

You're putting, I just wanna be clear, you're putting that on the nursing home operators.

- On that one.

Absolutely.

Because that you could, again, look this up.

We were unambiguous.

And by the way, the Attorney General, to the best of my knowledge, has taken action, or the Department of Health, if not both, on the basis of that bad behavior.

- So, we're talking to Governor Phil Murphy about a whole range of issues.

And just right after this very quick break, we'll be back with the governor talking about more really important matters to the people of New Jersey, the region, and the nation.

Be right back.

- [Narrator] To watch more One on One with Steve Adubato find us online and follow us on Social media.

- Thank you so much for continuing to be with us as we continue the conversation with Governor Phil Murphy.

Governor, let me ask you this.

We like to talk policy, you know, and not horse race politics.

It's not our thing.

You've known us long enough.

There are so many other places you can go for that.

Nothing wrong with that, but it's not what we do.

However, I would be remiss if I did not raise the question, and you've been asked it before, but I want to have a conversation, we've had the First Lady, Tammy Murphy, on many times talking about maternal health, Nurture NJ, a very significant initiative, and please look at previous interviews we've done with the First Lady.

She's running for the US Senate.

To those who question, particularly in the progressive wing of the Democratic party, "Wait a minute.

The Governor's the governor.

He's one of the most powerful governors in the nation.

He's got line item veto power.

The five county Democratic chairs immediately were supporting the First Lady.

She's pretty much got this thing locked up."

It's not fair, you say.

- Yeah, by the way, first of all, I'm incredibly proud of her.

She's one of the most impressive, hardest working people I've ever met in my life.

In baseball, we've got that phrase, which I love, and she is it, a "5 tool athlete."

There's literally nothing she can't do.

And so God bless her, and that's number one.

Number two, she has not taken anything for granted.

She is gonna earn this on her own two feet.

I promise you that.

She is working her tail off morning, noon, and night, and she's gonna be in all corners of the state.

It's really, Steve, and you know her well.

It's really her third statewide campaign.

She was the finance chair for my first election.

She was the chair and finance chair for the second.

Now, she's on the ballot herself.

And I'd say this, listen, she's gonna earn this or not on her own two feet.

And I wonder what George Bush of the Texas Rangers, did anyone say he couldn't run for governor of Texas because his dad had been President, or his brother in Florida?

Or the Kennedys?

Or Tom Kean Jr?

You fill in the blank.

I would just say folks, judge her on her own merits.

And she is a true blue, progressive, smart, pragmatic Democrat.

And folks, if they don't know that yet, they will know that over the next many months.

- You can see who the Governor will be voting for in the Democratic primary for the US Senate.

Governor, shift gears again.

So the Edna Mahan Correctional Facility, woman's correctional facility.

The reports that have come out are horrific as to what has happened, what happened to many of the women there.

The corrections officers who acted in an abominable, disgraceful fashion.

What is the role of the governor as it relates to the head of the Department of Corrections in administering that operation?

And what responsibility, if any, do you take in this frankly, debacle at Edna Mahan, please?

- It's hard to spin anything in Edna Mahan over the years.

- Mahan.

I apologize for.

It's Mahan, right?

- Yeah, I'm told I mispronounce it, so there's a 50% chance you're right.

- Go ahead.

- I think you could be as right as I.

But listen, I would say one thing, and I want to make sure we're clear about this.

The problems of that facility have been building for decades, literally.

Again, that's something folks can look up.

There's one governor who said he was gonna close it, and it's me.

So I have enormous faith in, for all of the awful stuff that has happened there, and I think we've been unequivocal in condemning all the awful behavior that has occurred there and the outdatedness of the facilities.

And frankly, the lack of flexibility to not have the ability to put a person in a separate building, and only be able to move them down the hall creates enormous challenges when you've got internal friction.

So we're in the process.

It'll take some time.

There will be temporary steps taken, but we're gonna build a 21st century smart new facility.

Again, I think Victoria Kuhn, who's our commissioner, has done an outstanding job of stabilizing the place, our entire correction system, I have to say.

And I have a lot of faith in the future, notwithstanding the sheer ugliness of the past.

- We'll be having the head of the Department of Corrections joining us on "State of Affairs" soon.

Governor, let's try this one.

So education.

I'd love to talk about the quality of education, and where our students are, where they need to be, learning loss during COVID.

All those issues matter.

Check out our previous programs in that regard.

But Governor, clarify this for us.

As it relates to parental rights, what is your view, and I'll give you a concrete example, for a 10-year-old child, if that child says to a teacher, a guidance counselor, a school administrator, "I'm confused about my gender.

I think that I was born the wrong gender," or it's issue about their sexual orientation, do you believe, or what do you believe the school's responsibility is to tell that child's parent, or not to tell them, what are the parents' rights, what are the child's rights, please, Governor?

- I'm so glad that you have asked this question, Steve.

And I want to give, this is a rare shout out for me to the editorial page of the Star-Ledger, but they wrote this seminal op-ed on this about a month before the election.

And they really held up a mirror to a lot of ugly mythmaking out there that completely ignored the facts.

So let me just make sure everyone knows today what is the longstanding law of New Jersey.

A teacher, an educator, if they see any behavior that they feel the parent needs to know, whether that's gender identity or anything else, they right now absolutely have the right to pick up the phone and call the parents.

That's never questioned.

- They have a right to do it.

- They have a right to do it.

- Is that different from a responsibility, Governor?

- Here's the difference.

Sadly, there is unfortunately, history here, both in New Jersey and around the country.

Not every one of those kids lives in a forgiving family.

Not every one of those kids can have that conversation with their mom and or dad and be safe.

Sadly, there've been situations where mom and dad find out about it and even violence occurs.

So the obligation to do it may well put that kid into harm's way, and that ain't gonna happen, particularly in all the anti-trans stuff as long as I'm governor.

Or generally, parents are at the table.

They have been, and they always will be.

You're not the number one public education system in America unless mom and dad are at the table.

That'll always be the case.

Governor, we're involved in an initiative for several years called Reimagine Childcare.

You have your administration has very clear childcare policies.

In a minute or less, make it clear what the priority is as it relates to affordable, accessible childcare in your administration.

- Yeah, three legs to the stool, and it's quite simple.

Number one, we've got, in fact right now, a big a hundred million dollar program to actually rehabilitate, renovate, fix up childcare centers.

Number two, huge amounts of money and resources.

I want to thank the legislature as always for the help here to make childcare more affordable for families.

And then three, particularly during COVID, although this is ongoing as well, to make sure the childcare centers themselves get the support they need to stay in business more from an operating standpoint.

I gave a speech recently to the NJBIA.

And I said one of the big economic programs we have is our investment in childcare.

It's one of the biggest applause lines of my remarks, 'cause folks realize, particularly for moms, it is an impact on the workforce, and the strength of the workforce unless we've got strong childcare, and that'll be a commitment of ours.

- And the Governor makes reference to BIA, the Business and Industry Association.

Governor, last question from my perspective.

We're also involved in a series called 2024, "Decision 2024: Democracy in Danger."

No question mark.

Just in danger.

I've asked this many times, I'm sure people are tired of it.

Democracy in danger, hyperbole?

- No, it is not, sadly, and I think explicitly if Donald Trump were to get reelected President.

It's not only on him.

You got a lot of folks all over the country right now.

Sadly, we're becoming a patchwork quilt country based on things from values, to, did you expand Medicaid or not.

And unfortunately, belief in our democratic institutions is on that list.

So in New Jersey, thank God, I'm not worried.

I'm frankly not worried at all.

But as an American, I'm very worried.

- Yeah, I lied.

One more quick follow up.

If the President, President Biden were actually to proceed in this campaign and win, he would be 86 years of age at the end of his second term.

What, if any, concerns you have about his cognitive ability to be a strong leader on behalf of this country and a leader of the free world, please?

- No cognitive issues or concerns at all.

He's on top of his game for sure.

And we see him and deal with him all the time.

Having said that, he's 81, so he, you know, he's 81 and he plays 81, although he's physically in top shape and mentally he's in top shape.

I've advised him.

I've advised his team.

Own your age.

Own your experience.

Remind folks you got elected to the Senate in 1972.

There's nothing you haven't seen.

And you see his prosecution of the war in Ukraine as an example of that, or the bipartisan infrastructure law.

There's nobody else on the planet who could have pulled off either leading that coalition or getting that law through Congress with Republican votes.

I would own the experience.

- Governor, I want to thank you on behalf of all of us for taking this half hour and being with us.

Thank you, Governor.

- Thanks for having me.

Steve.

On behalf of everyone here at the Caucus Educational Corporation and our partners in Public Broadcasting, we thank you so much for watching.

We'll see you next time.

- [Narrator] One-On-One with Steve Adubato has been a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by RWJBarnabas Health.

New Jersey Institute of Technology.

Johnson & Johnson.

IBEW Local 102.

NJM Insurance Group.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

The Turrell Fund, a foundation serving children.

New Brunswick Development Corporation.

Veolia, And by these public spirited organizations, individuals and associations committed to informing New Jersey citizens about the important issues facing the Garden State.

And by Employers Association of New Jersey.

Promotional support provided by ROI-NJ.

And by New Jersey Globe.

NJM Insurance Group has been serving New Jersey businesses for over a century.

As part of the Garden State, we help companies keep their vehicles on the road, employees on the job and projects on track, working to protect employees from illness and injury, to keep goods and services moving across the state.

We're proud to be part of New Jersey.

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