- [Announcer 1] "The Songwriters" is supported in part by... the Nashville Convention and Visitors Corporation, Rusty and Kacie Gaston, The Mike Curb Foundation, SESAC, BMI, and ASCAP, Rich and Charlotte Hallworth, Kerry O'Neil and Carla Wallace.

Additional support is provided by... (peaceful piano music) ♪♪ (peaceful piano music continues) ♪♪ (peaceful piano music continues) ♪♪ (rhythmic acoustic guitar music) ♪♪ (rhythmic acoustic guitar music continues) ♪♪ (rhythmic acoustic guitar music continues) ♪♪ - Welcome to "The Songwriters."

I'm Ken Paulson, and today we have the opportunity to talk to a true champion of song.

This gentleman is a distinguished writer of popular music, but also a real hero to those who care about the rights of songwriters.

Welcome, Steve Bogard.

- Very nice to be here, Ken.

Pleasure to see you.

- [Ken] You wear multiple hats.

- I do.

- Yeah, and I suspect you always have.

- I always have done more than one thing at a time, vocations and avocations and labors of love.

- You grew up in Tampa, Florida.

- I did.

- Which is not a hotbed for American songwriting.

- No, not at all.

- And what put you on the path to being a songwriter?

- I had a band, started a band when I was about 12 or 13.

We were called The Paragons.

We had a lead singer with great hair, but no pitch.

And so I took over that.

(Ken laughing) And we played kind of a lowercase Dick Clark show called "Hi-Time."

And there was a director named Jean Morris, wonderful lady.

And we played a lot of gigs, high school things, and proms and stuff.

And we had a once a month slot on this show.

It was on every Saturday.

And at one point, Jean said, you know, "You'd probably have more fans if you did some original songs.

Why don't you write something and do it on the show?"

So I wrote a couple things and it was fun.

- [Ken] Anything chart?

- No, no, not from that era, not from that era, but we did have a chart record with the band on Scepter Records when I was about 17 that Larry Rogers produced.

- Wow, that's fantastic.

Well, you know, to be clear, your career has all kinds of highlights.

Along with 10 number-one songs, you have endless other cuts.

And yet, your roots are really in Rhythm and Blues and Soul.

- They really are.

I remember the first time I heard Jim Weatherly do his version of "Midnight Train to Georgia."

- Yeah.

- And, also, Merle Haggard to some extent, Tammy to some extent.

At some point, I just realized that this was Roots music.

This was music of the people.

It was story music.

And there was very little difference other than who's singing and what kind of instruments.

- Well, early on, you had an interaction with Jerry Wexler and Tom Dowd.

- Yes.

- Legendary folks.

- Yes.

How did that happen?

- I was living in Memphis, playing with Bill Black's Combo, and opening and playing for Charlie Rich, and all over the Mid-South.

And I got a call, and a band called the Dixie Flyers, with my buddy, Mike Utley, got called to be the rhythm section.

Back then for Atlantic Records, it was Miami, Memphis, and Muscle Shoals.

And so I got a chance to go, I guess, I might've been 19, to just go to Miami, a hundred bucks a week and a place to live.

- Now, did you play with Charlie Rich before his renaissance?

- Yes, yes.

We were playing "Lonely Weekends" and "Mohair Sam."

(Ken laughing) - Were you stunned by his comeback?

- No, I always told him.

I can remember sitting many times when he was discouraged going, just stay with Billy Sherrill.

Just stay with it.

You're gonna be the biggest thing ever.

- He was an incredible talent.

- Yeah.

For those who have forgotten the name, Charlie Rich, "Behind Closed Doors" is arguably the biggest hit of the '70s in Country music.

I mean, he just had a fabulous career, but earlier was one of the Sun rockers, so - Mm-hmm.

- that was a good career.

- Yeah, it was a great career.

- So you had to be a good 19-year-old guitar player.

- I was pretty good.

I've lost a lot of my chops since then.

(Ken chuckles) - Well, well... - I thought I was a guitar player 'til I came to Nashville.

- But if you're playing in the company of Dixie Flyers, and the folks we've mentioned, you held your own.

- Yeah, I could keep up.

- So we already know that your path to songwriter, to a great songwriter legacy began at a Tampa television show.

What was the trigger where you said, well, maybe I'll write for other people rather than aspire to be a Rock-and-Roll guitar player?

- I think the main thing was, I was at Criteria.

Well, this song, "Touch Me With Magic" came from, Henry Hurt brought a band called Tommy Latham and The Traveling Magic to Lyn-Lou where I was kind of assisting engineering and all that.

And he brought them in to record 'em and they only had one song.

So I said to Mike Utley that day, I said, they only have one song.

If we write anything, especially if it has the word magic in it, we'll get their B-side.

(Ken laughing) And so we stayed up all night, and we wrote this kind of Turtles-esque thing called "Touch Me the [With] Magic."

In fact, there's a YouTube clip with Marty Robbins saying, "Yeah, this is my new single.

It's what the kids are calling Country music these days."

- [Ken] Oh, wow.

- It was very... - [Ken] Oh, wow.

- Yeah, it wasn't complimentary, but it was a hit.

So we won a BMI Award.

And my wife, this is 11 years after we wrote the song.

I'm sitting at Criteria and I see it on the charts.

I see it's number 11 or 12, or something.

And I called Larry Rogers, the publisher, and said, he said, "I've been trying to get ahold of you."

I said, "Well, this is really exciting."

I didn't know at that point much about the business, or money, or any of that stuff, but we got invited to, I got invited to the BMI Awards.

I told my wife I'm not going that far for dinner just... She said, "It's a gold invitation.

It's gotta mean something."

(Ken laughing) Not long later when the checks came in, - Yeah - my wife, Beverly, a very outspoken person, said, "You call yourself a songwriter 'cause you do these things in Canada and in England, and all that, but you're not a songwriter."

I said, what do you mean?

She said, "We don't live where songwriters live.

Songwriters live in Los Angeles, New York, or Nashville.

Let's move."

She said, "Do you wanna be wheeling your Super Reverb into doctor's houses when you're 55?"

(Ken laughs) I said, no, I guess not.

So we just packed up and moved.

- How long have you been married?

- 54 years.

- Congratulations.

Clearly she's good for you.

- She's very good for me.

- We just scored you some points there.

- Good, good.

- That's a great story.

So for those who don't remember "Touch Me With Music" are you able to- - [Steve] Yeah, I can just grab a little of it.

- "Touch Me With Magic."

You've made clear that that was a key component of the song.

- It just happened that... I mean, it was kind of the Turtles era, so it was just... (Steve plays intro to "Touch Me With Magic") ♪ Touch me with magic ♪ ♪ Baby, your love's fantastic ♪ ♪ Touch me with magic tonight ♪ ♪♪ (Steve chuckling) - I believe that was "Elenore" by The Turtles.

- It was.

(Ken laughing) - And then I even used the word "starshine" in the second verse.

My grandson, who's a Marty Robbins fan, came to me one day and said, "Papa, that's a terrible song you wrote for Marty Robbins.

It's not anything like his other songs."

I said, "I can't help it.

He recorded it and it got me going."

- (Ken) Wow!

Does everyone in your life give you a hard time?

Is that the- - They pretty much- - [Ken] Runs in the family?

- Yeah.

Well, they pretty much shoot straight.

- Okay, all right.

Well, any cut by Marty Robbins is a great thing.

- [Steve] Yes.

- And so your confidence grew.

And you relocated here and that worked.

- Moved here in 1983, I think.

Eight rooms of furniture and a black lab, and a Big Wheel tied to the back of a U-Haul.

And we got an apartment.

Jess and Zach were four and eight.

And I called Larry Rogers, and he had a joint venture at Welk at the time, which turned out to be Universal later.

And he said, "Well, I can't pay you much of anything."

And phew was that ever true.

"But I can let you hang out.

There's offices there you can hang out."

So that's what I did.

I just went in every day and I met Rory Burke, and a guy named Herb McCullough let me share an office.

And I was kinda getting cuts in a year or so.

- There's, well, it's a story often told by songwriters about a cab driver asks, you know, what do you do?

You say songwriter.

They'd say, well, what songs?

And so many people will go through their four or five biggest hits, and the guy says, I haven't heard any of those.

- They often haven't.

- You don't have that problem because George Strait recorded your stuff.

- He has recorded numerous.

- And my understanding is that you have a medley of the two songs, two huge songs you wrote for George Strait that involve carrying.

- (Steve) Mm-hmm.

- Was that a theme in your work at the time?

- It really wasn't.

"Carried Away" came first.

And that was just, it started as an apology to my wife, for being overly over-the-top about music, or whatever I was carried away with at the time.

And it turned out to be more of a love song.

And "Carrying Your Love With Me" is a tribute to the Nashville ethos of sharing, because my buddy, Jeff Stevens, gave me this little scrap of paper that said, "Carrying Your Love With Me" on it.

He said, "I don't know what this means, but it's a great title.

You hang onto this.

And when you figure out what it means we'll write it."

(Ken laughs) We wrote it in a couple hours, once I sat down and came up with that little metaphor.

- Can we hear those two classic songs?

- Yeah, sure.

Sure.

I medleyed these so that I could get two songs in at some of the Congressional offices we played in where they're in such a hurry.

- Yeah, just to be clear, to people who are watching, I mentioned the work you do on behalf of songwriters, but that involves reaching out to legislators, convincing them the importance of the work you're asking them to do, and entertaining them for three minutes.

- Mm-hmm.

- So this has been heard in the halls of Congress.

- Yes, it has.

And, actually, a funny story.

I have a little Martin.

And when I testified at the Copyright Royalty Board, I was one of three witnesses, Lee Miller and Victoria Shaw and I. And when I testified, I snuck my little Martin up onto the witness stand with me.

And at that time, there was a rule you couldn't talk about what the sound recording got paid.

You couldn't talk about that.

You couldn't compare sound recording to publishing rights, the copyright.

And at the end of my testimony, one of the judges said, "Do you have anything else you wanna say?"

And I said, I'd like to play you a song.

And, of course, the lawyers were beside themselves.

But what could they say?

So I took out... I took out my guitar and I played a verse and chorus of "Carrying Your Love With Me."

And then I took out my phone and played the George Strait second verse and chorus of "Carrying Your Love with Me."

And I said, I just wanna ask you a question.

Do you think that George's wonderful version is worth 17 times what I played you?

He just said, "Thank you."

We ended up with, I'm not claiming it's just because of that, 'cause it isn't.

There's a lot going on.

But we ended up with a 44% mechanical raise.

- [Ken] That's good.

- After that CRB, so.

- [Ken] That's great.

- The song means a lot to me.

- Well, let's hear the songs that made that happen.

(Steve plays the intro to "Carried Away") ♪♪ ♪ I don't take my whiskey to extremes ♪ ♪♪ ♪ I don't believe in chasing crazy dreams ♪ ♪♪ ♪ My feet are planted firmly on the ground ♪ ♪♪ ♪ But darling, when you come around ♪ ♪ I get carried away, ♪ ♪ By the look, by the light in your eyes ♪ ♪ Before I even realize the ride I'm on ♪ ♪♪ ♪ And baby I'm long gone ♪ ♪ I get carried away, nothing matters but being with you ♪ ♪♪ ♪ I'm like a feather flying high up in the sky ♪ ♪ On a windy day ♪ ♪ I get carried away ♪ (guitar solo) ♪♪ (guitar bridge to "Carrying Your Love with Me") ♪♪ ♪ Baby all I got is this beat up leather bag ♪ ♪♪ ♪ And everything I own don't fill up half ♪ ♪♪ ♪ But don't you worry about the way I pack ♪ ♪ All I care about is getting back real soon ♪ ♪♪ ♪ A goodbye kiss is all I need from you ♪ ♪♪ ♪ 'Cause I'm carrying your love with me ♪ ♪ West Virginia down to Tennessee ♪ ♪ I'll be moving with the good Lord's speed ♪ ♪ Carrying your love with me ♪ ♪ It's my strength for holding on ♪ ♪ Every minute that I have to be gone ♪ ♪ I'll have everything I'll ever need ♪ ♪♪ ♪ Carrying your love with me ♪ ♪♪ - Wow, excellent.

- Thank you.

- I love both those songs.

So having written 10 number-one songs, what was the biggest surprise of those?

- The biggest surprise.

- [Ken] Well, you know, every song you write, you have high hopes.

- Right.

The babies are all beautiful when they're first born.

- Right, but when you walk out of, you know, there are times, you hear this all the time about classic songs where people went, yeah, that's the one.

- I think probably it's the Dustin Lynch number-one, "Seein' Red" because that was written with a couple of guys from Aldean's band.

It was a role that I play much more often these days.

We call ourselves topliners, I suppose, where I didn't even pick up the guitar, but there was a monster, massive track that was hooky as all get out.

And one of the guys said, "What does this mean?

What is this gonna be about?"

And the other one said, "I don't know, I'm seeing red."

And so I just put together, you know, bullfighting and Mars and blood and passion, and tried to put it all together.

- Could I get a little taste of that without the track?

Is that possible?

- Yeah.

Yeah, sure.

(Steve plays the intro to "Seein' Red") ♪♪ ♪ Flame ♪ ♪ Girl, you light it up when I hear you say my name ♪ ♪ 'Cause you know just how to start it ♪ ♪ You shine ♪ ♪ And I just can't wait to get you out tonight ♪ ♪ 'Cause you know how bad I wanna ♪ ♪ Ride this Chevy like a Cadillac ♪ ♪ Blow the one stoplight, no looking back ♪ ♪ Wherever we're going, gotta get there fast ♪ ♪ I'm talking red hot, red dress hanging off your hips ♪ ♪ I'm talking red hot, wet kiss falling off your lips ♪ ♪ I'm talking backseat, heartbeat pounding in my chest ♪ ♪ I'm seein' red ♪ ♪ I'm seein' red ♪ ♪ Can't get you outta my head, girl ♪ ♪ Can't get you outta my head ♪ ♪ The way you color up my world ♪ ♪ I'm seein' red ♪ ("Seein' Red" continues) ♪♪ - Yes!

Yes!

That has to feel good.

- [Steve] It does.

- You know.

You know, it is quite some distance from, you know, "Carrying Your Love With Me."

You've adapted even as the industry throws you curves.

And I'm sure that's not always easy.

I have a related question now.

I asked you what top, what number-one song was the most biggest surprise?

I think I know the answer to this question.

What was the album track that was most surprising in terms of its overall success?

- Well, it has to "Damn Your Eyes."

- I would think so.

What amazing credits you have on that.

- It was.

- I mean, I don't know anyone else in Nashville who has a Sinéad O'Connor cut.

- It's been an amazing song.

My publishers actually told me when we went, it was Barbara Wyrick and I wrote it.

She was a background singer for Milsap.

And we played them the rough.

And both my publishers said, "Don't demo that.

Nobody's gonna cut that in Nashville.

That's done."

But their boss, Henry Hurt, said, "Do whatever the hell you want.

Go record it.

Spend whatever you want on it."

So we did a really fabulous demo, and Kevin, God, I can't think of Kevin's last name.

Kevin took another publisher with no interest in it, took it to Barry Beckett.

Barry Beckett.

And I got to go into the studio.

I got to meet Etta.

- [Ken] Etta James.

- I did.

I got to go in the studio.

And then when it was time for her to sing, she said, "You can leave now.

I don't sing with no songwriters in the room."

- [Ken] Oh, wow.

(Steve chuckles) Wow.

- [Steve] So it was fun.

And after that, Sinéad cut it.

It's still getting recorded and played and stuff.

- Etta James was the first to cut it then?

- [Steve] Yes.

- That's special.

- [Steve] Yes, it is.

- That's special.

Legendary Soul artist and, you know, also the inspiration for a lot of people who followed her, female performers, '60s, '70s and beyond.

Okay, can you do that song?

- I can do some of it, I guess.

- Just a little bit of it.

This is increasingly becoming a game show.

- Okay.

(Steve chuckles) Do I win something?

- We're gonna put you in the Nashville Songwriters Hall of Fame.

- Let's see a B.

(Steve strums the guitar to find the tune) ♪♪ Oh, here it is.

♪♪ ♪ I can do what I want ♪ ♪ I'm in complete control ♪ ♪ That's what I tell myself ♪ ♪ I'll be all right alone ♪ ♪ Got a mind of my own ♪ ♪ Don't need anybody else ♪ ♪ I give myself a good talking to ♪ ♪ No more being a fool for you ♪ ♪ Then I see you and all I remember ♪ ♪ Is how you make me wanna surrender ♪ ♪ Damn your eyes ♪ ♪ For taking my breath away ♪ ♪ For making me wanna stay ♪ ♪ Damn your eyes ♪ ♪ For getting my hopes up high ♪ ♪ For making me fall in love again ♪ ♪ Damn your eyes ♪ ♪♪ - Bravo, that's great.

Let's talk about another song that got you there.

And it's a song that Dierks Bentley recorded, "Every Mile A Memory."

Where did that come from?

- Beverly and I were on a trip to visit some relatives and friends in Miami, and we decided to take a detour through my hometown of Tampa.

And as I was boring her to tears with, this is where the big kids stole my basketball.

This is where I rode my bike into the Hillsborough River, accidentally.

And she's getting more and more bored, and I said... It was pre-iPhone.

I said, write this title down, though, 'cause this might work.

So I ended up with a pretty good chunk of lyric of sentence fragments that my English teacher would probably roll over in her grave.

But it turned out Dierks really liked it and Brett Beavers, and it went on to be a Grammy nominee, which means you lost.

- Could we hear a bit of that?

- [Steve] Sure.

- You're so accommodating.

- That's what I'm here for.

(Ken chuckling) (Steve plays the intro to "Every Mile a Memory") ♪♪ ♪ Country roads ♪ ♪♪ ♪ Old theater marquee signs ♪ ♪♪ ♪ Parking lots ♪ ♪♪ ♪ And billboards flying by ♪ ♪♪ ♪ Spanish moss ♪ ♪ Little hick town squares ♪ ♪ Wild roses on a river bank ♪ ♪ Girl, it's almost like you're there, oh ♪ ♪ Every mile, a memory ♪ ♪ Every song, another scene ♪ ♪ From some old movie going back in time to you and me ♪ ♪ Every day, a page turned down ♪ ♪ Every night, a lonesome sound ♪ ♪ Like a freight train rolling through my dreams ♪ ♪ Every mile, a memory ♪ ♪♪ - [Ken] What a relatable song that is, I mean.

- It has really done well.

One story I tell sometimes is I played it at the Bluebird one night, and a really young guy came up and he said, "Can I show you something?"

I said, sure.

He showed me his wrist and he had a tattoo and it said "Every Mile A Memory."

- [Ken] Wow.

- And he said, "And the story is my best friend and I both enlisted at the same time.

And we went over to Iraq and we both got these exact same tattoos, and I came back and he didn't."

- Wow.

Powerful song.

- [Steve] Yep.

- So I described your work in general in terms of looking out for other songwriters.

And what kind of work does that involve?

You know, people who are sitting at home might go, whoa, you know, you write a three minute song.

I'm sure you make millions.

- [Steve] Right.

- And what's the problem?

What is the problem, Steve Bogard?

(Steve chuckles) - Well, the problem is the delivery method of our copyrights.

At one point, when people bought records and CDs the total value of a copyright was 9.1 cents per song.

- So did that mean that a songwriter got 9.1 cents for every copy of that song sold?

- No, it meant that all the writers and all the publishers split 9.1 cents.

- [Ken] Okay.

- But it was still a system that if you were on some great albums, it was a living wage.

It was normal.

You could probably buy a house, probably send a kid to college if you wanted to.

- Steve, it's been great to talk to you, and thank you for the music.

- My pleasure, Ken, thank you.

(rhythmic acoustic guitar music) ♪♪ (guitar music continues) ♪♪ (guitar music continues) ♪♪ (guitar music continues) ♪♪ ♪♪ - [Announcer 2] For more information on "The Songwriters" visit SongwritersShow.org ♪♪ - [Announcer 1] "The Songwriters" is supported in part by... the Nashville Convention and Visitors Corporation, Rusty and Kacie Gaston, The Mike Curb Foundation, SESAC, BMI, and ASCAP, Rich and Charlotte Hallworth, Kerry O'Neil and Carla Wallace.

Additional support is provided by... (peaceful piano music) ♪♪ (peaceful piano music continues) ♪♪ (peaceful piano music continues) ♪♪ (bright music) (dramatic music)