David: You're listening to KVCaRts on 91.9 KVCR, online at kvcrnews.org I'm David Fleming.

Up next, Steve Rushingwind and Nelson Rios.

We'll be speaking a lot about "Fuego", the first recording under the name Rushingwind and the Native Groove.

As we go into the conversation though, we have in the background now, one of the cuts from "Fuego."

Although this one recorded in the KVCR studio by Steve Rushingwind, Nelson Rios and special guest on the shakers, Sienna Ruiz.

♪ David: For the most we'll be hearing tracks from "Fuego" in the background, the new release.

We have Steve Rushingwind, indigenous flute, and Nelson Rios, El Rey de Timbales?

Can I say that?

He didn't react to that!

I know you're a Tito Puente fan, so I maybe- Nelson: Absolutely!

David: should not do that!

(Nelson laughs) But, Nelson on percussion and we should differentiate.

You're not on the drum kit.

It's actual percussion.

It's a variety of...things to whack!

Nelson: I started out with drum kits and I switched over to hand percussion.

David: Okay.

So as 10 year old Nelson, you did start off on a kit?

Nelson: That's correct.

David: Okay.

So, it was your brother's Latin band that made you switch over to percussion?

Nelson: Yeah.

My brother's Latin band was called Santa Fe, back in the '60s-'70s, and they pretty much tore up the East Coast.

David: Okay!

Nelson: I got my influence from those guys, and went to a different direction.

David: Nice.

Wow.

I knew of your association with the Miami Sound Machine.

But, Santana?

I just read or re-remembered this one.

I don't know how best to say this?

I think I knew it at one point.

How did you end up with Santana?

I know you played here and there with some of the Santana percussionists.

Nelson: That's correct.

David: But, Carlos!

Nelson: Carlos and I met in '93.

A radio station back east, WMMR, had a contest.

They were looking for the best percussionist in the East Coast, and they had about maybe 1,600 contestants.

It was Friday, the last day.

I had about 30 minutes to go before they selected their percussionist, the winner.

So I happened to be going right by the radio station; stopped in.

I'm looking at these horrible congas.

I asked for a wrench to tune them up.

The director goes 'that's definitely our winner!'

(David laughs) So, to tune them up!

And, the deal was they would select a song from Santana and when he stopped it, you would do a solo.

Well, my tribute band always ended our gig with "Soul Sacrifice".

David: "Soul Sacrifice", of course.

Sure.

Nelson: They happened to pick "Soul Sacrifice"!

David: Ohh, yeah!

So, there was- Nelson: It was like chopped liver!

David: Didn't even have to improvise.

It was just- Nelson: Not at all.

It was all natural and I'm thinking 'man, they're in for a treat!'

From there, 2 weeks later Santana was in town in Jersey doing a couple concerts and I was invited on stage!

David (gasps): Wow!

Nelson: Yeah.

From there on, we just became good friends and he locked me in as a backup.

David: Nice!

Wow.

Well, Steve we've had on the program a few times before.

Steve: Mm hm.

David: We're in essence looking at "Fuego".

This is quite different than past releases.

But in ways, too, it's also- there's a wonderful continuity as well.

Steve: Yeah.

David: The first several were relaxing, even the one that you refer to as your Crazy Horse recording!

(laughter) and then, "Red Beaten Path?"

That is an incredible- Nelson: Wow!

David: disc on so many levels.

And then, very recently, "Nordic Passage".

But now, "Fuego".

This one you can still chill to, okay?

But it's definitely amped up.

It was named- Steve: Yeah.

David: "Fuego" for a reason.

Steve: Yeah.

♪ (shakers shaking/ percussion/flute) David: And so, I want to get to now, that it happened to be Nelson here that called it "Fuego"!

Steve: Yes.

David: Or, threw out that explanation.

Let's hear that story.

Steve: Well, we were standing in the control room and looking at- we were playing some of the music back.

I had just came in from playing my part.

We're sitting there, er?

Actually, standing in the control room talking to Oscar from El Cerrito Studios.

We're there and then Nelson comes walking in and he goes 'man, this album is on fire!'

And then, he goes 'that's fuego!'

He looks at me and I'm like 'oh?'

I go [David laughs] that-?

How do you beat that , you know?

I go 'that's it!

That's it!'

He goes 'what?'

'That's the name of the album!'

He goes 'fuego?'

'Yeah!

Why not?'

So- Nelson: That started it!

Steve: That's it.

David: That fit the picture better than 'quiet sailboat', or something!

(laughter) Well, the first time I spoke with Steve he had just come back from the Native Rhythms Festival in Florida.

And then, the last time Steve and I spoke, you guys were all just about to go to the Native Rhythms Festival.

(Steve chuckles) Again, this is in Florida and this is where "Fuego" got its premiere, the soft release?

Steve: Yep.

Nelson: That's correct.

David: Well, tell us about first of all, what the Native Rhythms Festival is; your part in it.

And, you were more of a feature this year.

You actually got some of the more primo playing time.

Steve: Yeah!

We got the spotlight on Saturday night.

David: With Sunday morning at 11!

(laughter) Steve (chuckles): Sunday morning at 11!

That was the year before.

But, yeah.

We did.

Actually, we did play on Sunday morning!

David: You did play Sunday?

Nelson: It was about 11 o'clock!

Steve: It ends after that.

David: Okay!

Steve: But we- actually, Saturday night, we got the spot.

The headlining spot Saturday night, but it was really cold.

It was freezing, believe it or not!

Florida!

Really?

I had a scarf on and you could see breath coming out of our mouths.

I felt like a football player in Miami!

Nelson: It was chilly!

(laughter) Steve: Over with the Packers or something!

David: Is this the kind of festival where after everyone's done playing at the festival, it wouldn't surprise anyone to go to one of the local watering holes and- Steve: Oh, yeah!

David: there's an informal jam?

Nelson: Absolutely!

David: Yeah?

Steve: Yeah.

Nelson: Just about every single night!

Steve: There's actually videos on Facebook of that!

Nelson: Yes, there is!

Steve: Nelson was playing the congas.

Nelson: Yeah.

I started that mess!

Steve: You actually started that mess!

David: You walked into a bar with a couple of congas strapped to your back?

Nelson: No!

I actually picked up a doumbek.

David: Oh, yeah!

Okay, cool.

Nelson: Yeah, and I started some crazy rhythms.

And, everybody else [David laughs] ran out to get their djembes and stuff.

And people started dancing, and flute players came out!

It was kind of crazy!

(laughter) David: Incredible!

Well, the first several tracks on "Fuego" are somewhat laid back.

Not, again, not quite a quiet meditative thing but there's still interesting percussion going on.

[music plays] This is "Tambor de la Noche": Drumming of the Night.

Well naturally, then, it has quite a percussive dominance.

It's not a loud thing but it's a steady accompaniment, and it is more I think dominant than some of the other tracks.

Steve: That's true.

David: So how did this one, as far as coming together, how did you end up being- how did it end up being more of a dominance?

Nelson: You know, I took the flavors from the African people, the Taino people from the Caribbean Islands.

When you mix that blend together, they have traditional songs that are inviting to outsiders.

David: Hm?

Nelson: And on our homeland, these are graceful songs.

They help to spread health, karma, wisdom and so forth.

You take these rhythms that we grew up with and you kind of combined them.

David: Mm hm.

Nelson: A little piece of this guy, little piece of that guy, and you kind of come up with your own rhythms to offset the beats.

I'm pretty good at that, at coming up with my own ideas.

You know, 7/8 and 5/7 rhythms and he goes like 'wow, that's pretty difficult to do and yet you do it with comfort'.

David: Okay.

Steve: Well, that's what we wanted on this album.

I knew that he had some rhythms, some beats, that he wanted to promote and put out there.

David: Mm hm?

Steve: And, I says 'why don't we do that and just add a flute only?'

So, that's what we did.

David: Ok.

So, some of it really started like that.

'Let's start with the percussion'- Steve: Mm hm!

David: as opposed to, I guess, bringing out the melody and having the percussion supplement that.

Nelson: Right, right.

Steve: Exactly.

David: Ok. Wow, cool.

Now, the art of this- we are speaking of "Fuego" again.

The art that's on this will be different when we get to the hard release.

But first, this one.

Who did the art of this?

Steve: This one was done by Sandor, and he's from Sweden.

Nelson: Sweden.

Steve: And, he did this CD cover for the promotional one.

David: Okay.

Steve: We knew we were going to have a different one for the hard release.

David: What's going to be on the new one?

Steve (sly): That's going to be kind of a surprise!

Nelson: Interesting!

David: Ok!

It's still coming.

Steve: Well, we have an idea already but it's coming.

But, we're not gonna release that one out of the bag yet!

David: There'll be some fire, at least.

Right?

Nelson: Absolutely!

Steve: Eh, there'll be some colors.

Let's just put it that way!

David: Ok, good.

Good.

Well, "Fuego" itself.

Now, we're talking about the title track to this release; four tracks into it.

This one does, again, starts gently.

Although I have to say, there is a reminiscence of Santana in there!

(Steve chuckles) There is!

I don't know whose fault that it is!

Or who did it, but-?

Nelson: I had a lot to do with that!

David: Yeah?

Nelson: You know, our good buddy, which Dave met a couple years ago?

Brian?

Steve: Yeah!

Nelson: Brian Klock is our guitarist.

David: Oh, okay!

Nelson: He was my guitarist, back east.

David: Ahh!

Nelson: Phenomenal player and heavily influenced by the way Santana played.

David: Mm hm?

Nelson: And, I had talked to him several times: 'hey, when we do a CD you gotta bring that flare that Santana does'.

It's very unique.

As Santana changes guitars, he tunes them a half scale down.

David: Hmm?

Nelson: And that's why he gets that vibrant, rich, raw, nasty sound out of his guitars.

David: Okay.

Wow!

Nelson: Brian's got such an open, vivid mind that he knows how to tune that guitar exactly like Santana!

David: Oh, incredible.

Nelson: And, that's what you heard.

David: And, this one breaks a little over 2 minutes in with an all too brief percussion solo, but then some guitar.

And, I mean guitar that's actually searing stuff that you would not expect by now that we're four tracks in.

[music plays] You think you might get a gentle strum from this guy.

But, no!

Steve: No!

Nelson: No, we don't.

We took- basically told Brian 'it's all yours.'

Steve: Exactly.

Nelson: 'Do whatever comes to your mind.

Own it'.

And, he knows how to- Steve: Yeah, he knocked it out of the park!

Nelson: Yeah!

David: Oh, yeah.

Truly, truly.

Steve: And then, he also plays a saxophone.

So, there's a song on there with the sax.

Nelson: And that- Steve: Me and him were sparring on the sax, but it was interesting because that one, it was like 'should we put a saxophone in, or what?'

It was- we were-?

Nelson: Playing with it?

Steve: Yeah, we were playing with the idea.

I said 'you know what?

We've got to.

He plays sax.

Let's do it!'

I had no idea how good Brian was.

Nelson: That's his main instrument.

Steve: Then, I found out later that was his main instrument.

He gets up there and we start recording the saxophone, and that was- it blew me away!

David: Ok!

Steve: It was so much fun to hear the saxophone.

You don't hear much saxophone on Native music!

David (dry): Uh, no!

No.

Steve: So to me, it was just absolutely perfect.

David: It's not a surprise to hear a saxophone as to being a flute doubler but not so much indigenous flutes.

It's a different kind of thing there.

Steve: You know, I'd like to say.

Kind of chime in here a bit.

David: Yeah, please!

Steve: We're talking about Brian Klock.

What happens is we have our main core guys that go out.

Nelson: That's true.

Steve: Brian Klock, he's from the West Coast.

He does a lot of West Coast.

He will be joining us in a lot of these gigs.

But we also have Thomas Curtner.

Now, Thomas Curtner is from Townsend, Tennessee.

Now, this cat plays- Nelson: He's phenomenal!

Steve: the horn, he plays a trumpet.

He plays a cello.

He plays all kind of things!

But he's our guitar guy too, as well.

He's the one that played actually in- Nelson: Native Rhythms.

Steve: Native Rhythms.

David: Oh, okay.

Okay.

Steve: So, Thomas Curtner and then we have Randy McGinnis joins us- Nelson: on bass.

Steve: once in a while on bass.

So, we have a slew of musicians that- it depends on what part of the world we're in, they'll join us if we happen to be in their neck of the woods.

David: Okay.

Well, it's nice that you've got these folks.

You don't have to truly travel with a band.

And also, introduce other "flavors", if you will, I suppose.

Steve: Mm hm.

David: Now, it doesn't seem like you've ever really limited yourself to any one genre.

Steve: No.

David: All these things that have happened, (chuckles) unless we refer to the Crazy Horse album!

I think that may have been the fourth one, with you and Michael Mucklow?

Steve: That was our...yeah.

Our fourth album.

David: Okay, yeah.

So, that one had a little bit more, I don't know?

A country edge, or country-rock kind of touch to it?

Steve: It was more country-rock.

It was more kind of like influenced from Neil Young.

David: Okay.

Well then, with "Red Beaten Path" there was a variety of different explorations in that one.

And of course, "Nordic Passage", well?

There's something else!

Steve: But to be honest with you, you know, as an artist, I'm a painter.

When I paint, I might have an idea what I want.

David: Right.

Steve: But if I had everything planned out, it wouldn't be art.

David: Yeah.

Steve: For me, it has to come as it goes.

It's part of the journey.

This music is the same thing.

After I'm done, sometimes I don't even know what I'm going to do next.

David: Okay, good.

Steve: Sometimes, I just sit there and something just strikes me and I'm like 'you know what?

I want to go that direction'.

That's why I have so many genres of music that I do because I can't- I have never been one to stick just to one thing as far as- the variety of life is spice.

David: Okay!

Steve: It really is, you know?

So I'm more into changing the tune, the tempo, bringing in different, whatever- who I can collaborate with.

It's a lot of fun!

That's what makes music, life, fun!

David: One of the things that I love about, really I have to say, any of your discs at this point, it's exploring the different levels.

The textures, that is.

They're all very thick textured releases and there are things layered in and on top of each other.

Steve: Mm hm.

David: It's always really cool.

You can give things an 18th, 19th and 38th listen and get something new.

Steve: Something new on that.

And you know, going back to traditional Native flute music.

David: Mm hm?

Steve: I'm in the process where- I just figure I'll let people know about this.

But, I'm an endorsed artist now: High Spirits Flutes.

David: Yes!

Steve: High Spirits with Odell Borg, we've decided to through his label, we're going to do a more traditional type, flute album.

I'll bring Nelson in and do a few songs with some beats in it.

But mainly, it's going to be more concentrated on the flute.

David: Okay!

Steve: And, going back to basics.

Basically, that's how I'm going to look at it.

David: That really Haunting through the Canyons-?

Steve: Yes.

Nelson: Yes!

Steve: Pretty much.

No crickets, though!

Trust me!

(David/Nelson laugh) No crickets, no birds, no water!

I don't- I'm done with those!

David: Well, despite R.C.

Nakai having the various, you know, the jazz grouping and- Steve: Yeah!

David: the orchestral groupings, if I think of R. Carlos Nakai, what I think of is that Haunting through the Canyons kind of thing with him.

Steve: Mm hm.

David: Okay.

Well, we were talking about endorsements.

Now, Nelson also has some quite cool endorsements and helped to shape one of the drums.

Can we just explore this?

Nelson: Yeah, sure!

You know, when I first was endorsed by Tycoon Percussion- David: Tycoon.

Nelson: Tycoon Percussion.

David: Okay.

Nelson: Basically, their homeland's Thailand.

That's where they're made.

David: Okay.

Nelson: And, I approached their R & D team and we were talking about congas.

I said 'hey, guys.

You're missing the boat here'.

They go 'what do you mean?'

I go 'you got beautiful percussion stuff, but you've got to go back to old school'.

And, their artist relation guy is George Balmaseda, and I said 'George?'

He's Cuban.

I said 'George, what do you have in your homeland when you were a kid?

Think about it'.

You know?

We always called them the brown wheel barrel because- David: Okay, sure.

Nelson: they're naturally brown with a metal strap around them.

And- David: And the metal, so people know- nobody really will know.

There's going to be a couple of drummers out there and probably fewer percussionists.

Nelson: Yeah.

David: So, talk about why the metal band, even?

It's more than just holding the thing together.

Nelson: That's true.

It allows it to resonate different tones.

You know, it's pretty much like the glue of the drum.

David: Okay.

Nelson: And, it's traditional.

I mean, this drum was founded in Cuba and that particular style with the band strapped around it.

A lot of manufacturers and percussion manufacturers, in general, got away from that.

Then when Tycoon got the idea from me, it's like 'hey, bring it back'.

And sure enough the following year, I was at NAM and they had what I'm playing with now on the line.

I was their first artist to pick up their Heritage series.

And ever since then, it's like I take'em on tour.

David: Now, I have to tell say that the way you just told this was a much gentler version than what you told me earlier!

(Nelson laughs) It was more like, you saw the drum and it was like 'what are you thinking?

(laughter) God, is this-?

Come on!'

Nelson: I gotta be nice!

(laughter) Steve: The G-rated one!

(laughter) Nelson: Yeah, there you go!

G-rated one.

David: I have to say, too, that I'm trying to work this one out to about Steve telling me how Nelson would be coming up, and Nelson with the Miami Sound Machine.

How, when I first met you roughly a year ago, I'd be showing up there with a bunch of Sharpies and the album of the Miami Vice soundtrack and...but that never happened!

But, I'm trying to work out that story better somehow, and someday, I maybe will (Nelson laughs) have you sign my Miami Vice soundtrack just so I can- take pity on me.

(Steve/Nelson chuckles) But one of the other tracks on here, I believe this is- oh!

The next track on here.

This is track five on this: the Heart of Love, " Corazón del Amor".

Nelson: Corazón!

David: And this one, backing down again.

This one starts, what?

It's a bit of a synth.

There's some percussion and then some chanting by Steve.

Nelson: Yes!

Steve: Oh, yes.

David: Last time Steve and I were speaking, you were talking about getting a little bit freer with your chanting.

Steve: Mm hm.

David: And so, is this something [music plays] that you've been exploring then?

Does that come out here?

Steve: This one here was not as free as the one with "Nordic Passage".

David: Yeah.

Steve: "Nordic Passage" had a little bit more, longer chanting on it.

This one here is a little shorter.

But what we wanted to do, this song here- when we were in the studio in Philadelphia, we were talking.

We were actually collaborating on this one.

I wanted it to start off and then change into something else.

I wanted it to morph.

David: Ok. Steve: So, we started off thinking 'well, this is going to be the typical type of chanting'- Nelson: Chanting.

Steve: Flute and things like that.

But then, I wanted it to just kind of slow down and then it picked up.

All of a sudden it changed into something else.

That's with this song.

But the chanting though, it's not as long as it is on "Nordic Passage".

David: Sure, no.

Steve: It's more like a sample, I guess you might want to say.

Nelson: It's brief and short, you know?

Steve: Short, yeah.

David: And, did you by chance or any of you by chance know, well?

One, how it was- what it was going to morph into?

Or, did you know how it was going to start and what it morphed into was sort of free, and it just happened?

Steve: I kind of had an idea in my head.

David: Okay.

Steve: But, we really didn't.

I just had an idea, what I envisioned, but as- I didn't want to be stuck on it.

So, when these guys started doing something different, I was like 'you know, I'm gonna go with it'.

David: Okay.

Steve: I don't know want to say 'no, don't do that'.

David: Alright.

Steve: 'Let's change, a little bit'.

David: And, I am hearing a drum kit in this one too, not just percussion.

Yes?

Steve: Hmm?

David: No?

Steve: No.

David: There's some high-hats!

There's somebody hitting cymbals in it.

Steve: Everything's real in it.

There's no kits.

David: No drum sampling?

Nelson: No.

Steve: OH!

I'm sorry.

I take it back!

Nelson: There is a kit.

Steve: There is a kit.

Oh, yeah.

David: I mean, like a little Buddy Rich kind of fellow- Nelson: Exactly.

Steve: Yes.

David: sitting there- Steve: That's Butch.

Nelson: Butch.

David: Okay.

Nelson: Butch Armstrong.

David: Alright.

So, we've got both types of percussion.

Steve: Sorry, I thought you meant something else!

David: Oh, drum sampling?

No way!

Steve: Yes!

There you go.

(Nelson laughs) I thought you meant samples!

David: No.

Nelson: We don't do samples!

David: That's when I walk out on one of your shows, Steve!

(they laugh) That's it.

I'll drive to Philadelphia and then walk out!

Steve: I'll get a turntable.

I'll do some scratchy!

How's that?

David: Now, that's good!

That's really good, especially with the FNX guys here.

Steve: I'll do scratchy, then I'll do flutes.

Scratch, flutes!

That might be kind of cool, actually!

David: Some of the folks I just interviewed, that would go right well!

(they laugh) Steve: Just might!

David: Well now, this one, not quite wrapping it up but wrapping up the disc anyway.

(Steve chuckles) Despite the thick textures that we were talking about earlier- Steve: Right.

David: and presented in this release through and through, the last track "Luna Loca".

This one is just you and Nelson?

Steve: Yes.

Nelson: Yes!

Steve: Me and Nelson.

David: So, was this one- I want to know how this one came about.

It could easily be a little jam that got recorded, or was it truly something intended to maybe end the disc?

To back down and get simpler?

Bring people down a bit?

Nelson: You know, David, when I first met Steve 5 years ago in Ohio, and I've been playing for a very long time.

I developed that tune 20 years ago- David: Wow!

Nelson: so I had it in my head for many, many years.

I couldn't find anybody to envision that vision.

When I first heard Steve play, I'm thinking 'that's my go-to guy'.

David: Wow.

Nelson: We can take this and elevate this to where people are just going to either love it or hate it, and when we had the opportunity to create this, he flipped!

You know, with all this we wanted something dominating?

David: Mm hm?

Nelson: But yet, again, we wanted the flute to be heard, be the voice.

But yet, we wanted the drums to capture your mind and spirit.

Where, you can just sit there and just rock with it!

David: Yeah.

They are very much, not so much a dominant instrument but let's say "more present" than- they're equal voices almost, these two: the flute and the percussion.

Nelson: Yes, yes.

David: So, was this intended to be the last track to truly bring things down?

Or, is it just something that you had and, then, it felt right to place there?

Steve: Yeah!

Nelson: Yeah, it did.

Steve: That's exactly what it was.

Nelson: Yeah.

It pretty much ended like that, yeah.

Steve: We were putting together the songs and kind of going through the flowing of it.

'Should we end it on a high note?'

But at the very end, I wanted to end this on kind of a natural acoustic feel.

David: Simpler.

Steve: Just simple flute and congas, and that's it.

Nelson: I mean, we wanted to capture not only the island traditional, Puerto Rican/Latino vibes.

David: Mm hm?

Nelson: But we wanted the Native American- Steve: Mm hm.

Nelson: tones to overcome everything else that I was doing.

And, that's what we established on this one.

Steve: Another thing, too, as far as the Latin?

Why I picked a Latin theme- David: Mm hm?

Steve: was basically because my mother is from Mexico.

She was born in Mexico- David: Okay.

Steve: came over in the '20s, became an American citizen.

So, I've never done anything on my mom's side of the family.

David: Oh?

Steve: And, she was from Sonora- Chihuahua, Mexico.

And, my dad was born in Phoenix, Arizona and being a full Native, I've been playing all these albums, making all these albums mainly with Native themes.

David: Mm hm.

Steve: I decided 'you know what?

I'm going to put my mom and my dad in this album'.

David: Hmm!

Steve: This is basically how it all started out.

[music plays] When I came to Nelson with the idea I said 'hey, let's do a Latin album.

I got my mom, dad.

Why not?'

You got fry bread and (Nelson laughs) you got a taco on the other side!

So, why not put'em together?

Nelson: There we go!

Throw some rice and beans in there!

Steve: You got Indian tacos.

Why not?

(Nelson laughs) David: Oh, good!

Steve: Actually, I'm hungry!

I could go for an Indian taco right now!

(laughter) ♪ (shakers shaking/ percussion/flute) ♪