- [Narrator] Production and distribution of City Club forums on idea stream are made possible by the generous support of PNC, and the United Black Fund of Greater Cleveland Incorporated.

(upbeat music) (bell ringing gently) - Hello and welcome to the City Club of Cleveland, where we are devoted to conversations of consequence that help democracy thrive.

I'm Jenny Hamel, education reporter at ideastream, sitting in for City Club CEO, Dan Moulthrop.

It is May 14th, and you're with a virtual City Club forum.

We are live from the studios of 90.3 WCPN ideastream.

In March, a series of mass shootings occurred at three spas in Atlanta, killing eight people, six of whom were Asian women.

The shootings stirred outreach and fear in the Asian-American Pacific Islander community, which has seen dramatic increases in racism and hate crimes, since the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic.

According to new data from the activist organization, Stop AAPI Hate, nearly 3,800 anti-Asian hate incidents occurred between March of 2020 and March of this year, with almost 70% targeting Asian women.

Sadly, this is not a new phenomenon.

Even before the pandemic, members of the Asian-American Pacific Islander community were subjected to discrimination and racism.

And women have additionally suffered misogyny and sexism, and often they all suffered in silence.

But that is changing.

Here in Cleveland, nearly 1000 people attended a Stop Asian Hate rally in March.

The Cleveland city council also passed an emergency resolution to condemn racism, xenophobia and hate crimes, especially against Asians, and Asian-American Pacific Islanders during the pandemic.

Today, we're gonna talk about these issues facing the Asian-American Pacific Islander community.

And the work that's being done towards a future that hopefully will include greater empowerment and inclusion.

So, joining us today, professor Antoinette Charfauros McDaniel.

She is an indigenous Chamoru from Guam.

She did doctoral work at Yale University, and was the first tenure track sociologists to be hired to teach Asian-American studies at Oberlin College, where she was a founding faculty member of the Comparative American studies program.

She's also a member of OPAWL, the Ohio Progressive Asian Women's Leadership, which is a grassroots collective that does advocacy for AAPI communities.

Welcome to you.

I'd also like to welcome Lydia Kang, college director for the Korean Central Presbyterian Church of Cleveland.

She has worked as an educator and is currently pursuing her master's of divinity at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary.

Welcome, Lydia.

And finally, we have Elaine Tso.

She's an attorney and the CEO of Asian Services in Action Incorporated.

The largest Asian-American and Pacific Islander-focused health and social services nonprofit organization in all of Ohio.

Asia serves roughly 60,000 Asian-American locally.

If you listeners or viewers have any questions for any of our speakers, you can text them to 330-541-5794.

That again is 330-541-5794.

You can also tweet them @TheCityClub, and we will try to work them in.

So Antoinette, Lydia and Elaine, welcome to the City Club of Cleveland.

I'd like to start with Elaine.

- Thank you for having us.

- Yeah, thanks for being with us.

Elaine, I'd like to start with you, tomorrow on Saturday, all across the nation, unity against hate rallies will be held to draw attention to the violence being perpetuated against the AAPI community.

In some respects, it feels like an unprecedented event in this country.

And I'm wondering if you feel this is a significant moment in AAPI history and what you're hoping the impact of tomorrow's event, again, happening at the same time, all across the nation at 2:00 PM Eastern, what you're hoping the impact might be.

- Yeah, no, thank you.

Thank you, Jenny, for that uplifting the event that's happening tomorrow.

It will be happening in the public square of Cleveland's downtown, which is a historical stage and a platform for communities to raise important issues, like the issue that is currently impacting the Asian-American community.

It's also an opportunity for communities of every color to come together and stand together, united against hate of any sort.

- [Jenny] And do you feel in some respects this level of organization, I mean, what has kind of led to this moment where we are seeing in fact, a coordination nationally that again, you know, I certainly as a journalist who's been working for 20 years have not witnessed thus far.

I mean, it seems to be a moment of galvanization for the AAPI community.

- Yeah.

I mean, historically, the community has remained silent when situations like this arise.

And I think that it's reached a boiling point where the Asian community has just decided enough is enough, and it's time to be visible and heard.

- Lydia, I turn to you now, you know, a lot of the violence that we have witnessed in the last year or so, has been perpetuated against older members of the AAPI community.

It's been hard to watch in some of the bigger cities, on either coast of this country.

We're seeing seniors that are being injured or even killed.

And in conversations leading up to this forum, you have said that you feel like the younger Asian-American Pacific Islander generation suddenly feels compelled to move beyond their comfort zone to protect their elders.

Why don't you extrapolate on that?

- Yes, I'm so glad you named that because oftentimes us, second generation, third generation, immigrants, we have some kind of cultural gap or even language barrier with our elders, and there has been difficulty in relationship.

I think that's important to talk about, in even our own households, but something that has really sparked in us is that we honor our parents.

We remind ourselves, you know the way that we respect our parents is to honor them.

And that translates to protecting them at their most vulnerable time.

And so, I've been very passionate about that.

And I've been seeing my students, my college students also, you know, just sparked in their passion to prevent anything like this to happen again to their loved ones.

So, it's a really beautiful thing.

Unfortunately, it's something we have to do right now, but it is still something beautiful that I've been seeing in my own community.

- And is there a feeling in some respects that the older generation or again, the AAPI elders that there is a vulnerability about them?

A lot of them don't have a 100% grasp on the English language or don't feel as enfranchised in I guess, Western society.

I mean, do you think that is at play?

- I definitely think so.

When I think about my grandparents and my own mother and father, when they moved to the States, they were learning the language, right?

And because of their context of arrival there, people who were coming after the 1965 Immigration Act they're coming with with skills and tools in their pockets.

And they're hoping for a better future.

And so, any kind of racism or a microaggression that they face, they were silent about it.

And they just thought, this is just what comes with the package.

This is what my life is going to be.

And it's nothing that I'm going to rock the boat about.

But we're seeing people in my generation who have been born in the States, we're facing this perpetual minority status.

Right?

We identify as Americans and yet we're facing discrimination.

And so, yes, I feel like for us, being in America and having more language, tools, we're able to speak up for them and to say, "This isn't actually something "that we can swallow and say is okay.

"We're going to stand up together."

And I think for my appearance and for my grandparents when they see my passion, they are empowered by my will to speak up for them.

- Antoinette, you're a sociologist, and in my conversations with you, I understand you've really thought about the dynamics at play throughout U.S. history that has brought us to this point.

And again, some racism experience, it's nothing new.

Why do you think it's so important for history, AAPI history to be taught to our nations children, young adults.

And for that to be put on the fore, when it comes to encouraging better relations and a better understanding of the Asian-American Pacific Islanders that are in the U.S. - First of all, I wanted to acknowledge that I'm an indigenous woman from the Pacific islands of Guam, which is still one of the last 17 colonial possessions in the world according to the United Nations.

And also, that I am coming to you from Lenape, Ojibwe, Kaskaskia, Potawatomi, Wonderland.

But going back to the larger question about the activism, the recent resurgence essentially of activism on the part of various parts of the Asian-American community I think it's really important to remember that there've been various points in history, where Asians have, and one can surmise that Asians have always pushed back and resisted, which is the truth of all oppressed peoples.

But we can talk about just even the emergence of the Asian-American rubric, under which people were motivated to organize in response to the murder of Vincent Chin, excuse me, a Chinese American man in Michigan, who was killed on the eve of his wedding by two laid off auto workers.

So, there's this kind of scapegoating that where people realized, first of all, he wasn't even Japanese, he wasn't a Japanese national, he didn't represent the 1% or Japanese automotive executives.

And yet, he was racialized in a way that there was no distinction between a Chinese American and a Japanese American, let alone someone who had been in this country for many years.

So, I do wanna say that there have been long periods of resistance.

I think the recent up swelling and the attention to anti-Asian violence really has to do with the spike in anti-Asian violence, which was promulgated by intentionally xenophobic language, the reference to the Wuhan virus, the reference to the China virus.

And at that point, you do have a surge of violence against people who are of Asian-American descent, or even just look as if, are mistaken to be Asian, because I have... Know of elders in the Chamorro community who because of our long history and proximity with Asia, maybe mistaken as Asian, and are also experiencing the kind of anxiety and microaggressions that people who are East Asian in the community are experiencing.

So, I think it's really important to have a really longer view of the kind of discrimination that Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders.

Although, I do wanna talk about that at some point.

It's a fraught category for Pacific Islanders because we are indigenous.

- [Jenny] Sure.

- But I do think it's important to recognize that the Chinese Americans were the first or Chinese were first groups singled out by race to be excluded, to immigrate.

And also, that an entire Asiatic barred zone was expanded with the Immigration Act of, I think it was 1916 or 17.

And mind you, I think this is relevant to a Cleveland context because those turn of the century Immigration Acts, were trying to interdict immigration from Southern and Eastern Europe.

So, the descendants, some of the people whose grandpa parents or great grandparents at this point were immigrating, were facing a lot of the xenophobia that brown people, essentially, Latinos, Latinx and Asians now are facing.

So, I think it's really important that we have a broader, longer view of history.

Given that, I do want to affirm that in various communities, at least that the elders may be reluctant, whether it's a matter of put your head down, we came here, you know, get your education, work hard, you'll get ahead.

But as we've seen recently, again, with the women who were slain in Atlanta and our elderly being targeted to quote Audrey Lord, "Our silence will not protect us."

So, just to put that in context - Elaine, in our conversations leading up to this forum you have expressed concern.

In this country, I think it's undeniable right now.

You know that in some respects there is a racial reckoning and in progress at least attempted in this nation to address wrongs that have happened against African-Americans, minority communities, but you have expressed concern that while there is all this great work being done in the DEI space, whether it's in corporations and companies or academic establishment, you're not feeling like the AAPI community has as much of a space or is being considered as much as you would like.

So, talk about that.

- Yeah.

So, in my role, I'm frequently intersecting with all kinds of spaces where discussions about diversity equity and inclusion are discussed.

And unfortunately, the focus of those conversations have continuously been, at least in the two years that I've been in my role, they've been continuously focused on black and brown communities, which is very valid and very important.

At the same time though, the Asian community is similarly situated in terms of needing to be supported, acknowledged and recognized as a community that is experiencing challenges of every sort related to race.

And it's been my responsibility in so many ways, when I attend these meetings and when I participate in these groups, to emphasize... By the way, Asians are also part of this community that has been marginalized and faces challenges, and for which there are equity concerns.

So, one thing that professor CHarfauros McDaniel mentioned was this idea that regardless of whether the race of the individual being targeted is some race other... Or some ethnicity other than Chinese, everyone is just lumped together as one.

And we are not a homogenous monolithic community.

Even in terms of our health.

So, Asian services in action has a community health center.

And we see health disparities based on ethnicity.

It's not that the health concerns of Chinese people are the same as the health concerns of an indigenous community.

For example, you know like the Marshalls community that lives in Celina, Ohio, there's a significant population of Pacific Islanders that live in Ohio.

But I think that their concerns are just kind of lumped together.

Like, they're all the same, and they aren't.

So, equity and disparities, those things exist in the Asian community as well.

- This is Jenny Hamel with ideastream.

We are currently having a City Club forum conversation about hate against the AAPI community.

You just heard from Elaine Tso, the CEO of Asian Services in Action.

So, Lydia, I see it might just be your characteristic but you're nodding a lot to what Elaine has to say.

Is there anything you wanted to add to that idea of... And I know it's something that Antoinette has strong thoughts on, is the idea that the AAPI community is not a monolith, and can be just as distinct, you know, well from one extreme to another as different races are.

And yet, I guess, what I see right now, though, is there a tension to say, "Hey, Koreans are different "than the Marshallese, "are different than the Vietnamese, "are different than the Chinese, "or the Chamorro."

However, is there strength in kind of coming together and saying, "Collectively, we have been quiet "for a long time and we want that time to be over."

- Yes.

I think this is such an important opportunity for Asians to come together and to stand up with one another.

And actually, I've been seeing a lot of movement even between...

I'm a Christian, so, between Asian Christians and black Christians bonding over their shared oppression and seeing that their liberation is one in the same as well.

If we're not standing up for one another, we're not fixing the problem.

And so, yes, I do believe even amongst Asians I've been seeing such beautiful conversations like this one, right?

We're all coming together from diverse backgrounds.

We're all sharing the same hurts.

We have similar immigrant experiences.

And yes, I definitely believe there is a strength in seeing each other's pain, and remembering and learning each other's histories and seeing that we have much more in common than we think where we had previously.

- Elaine, I'm sorry.

Did you wanna add to that?

- Yeah.

I mean, absolutely.

Just the fact that we are all Americans, I mean, I think that we all want to thrive and belong regardless of what our ethnicity may be.

We have that shared value to be accepted and to be part of this fabric that we call the United States.

I was thinking... Something that I wanted to add, something that I wanted to add about the distinctions in the DEI space is that...

I think that the model minority myth that is attached to the Asian community, it is so harmful because it takes Asians as some sort of rivals against other communities of color.

And that does not unite us.

I mean, the reality is that there are struggles in every community, there are successes in every community, and pitting one community against another is not how we can do more together.

- Yet.

- Additionally, along the lines that we have more in common than we have in terms of differences, I just want to share a quick story.

So, I have a family member who recently graduated from college and joined the Marines.

And so, I called the family member and I said, "Oh, congratulations."

And I thought... "You're joining the toughest branch, "you're joining the toughest branch of the military."

And I thought I was complimenting, I thought I was complimenting my family member by saying how proud I was that... by characterizing as the toughest branch of the military.

And my young family member, responded to that.

This is an amazing young man that I was talking to.

And he said, "Honestly "auntie, I don't believe "in comparing branches of the military, "because we're all here for the same purpose."

- Interesting.

- And I think similarly to all Americans, we all want the same thing.

We all want to live together in the United States and comparing each other or making false hierarchies about race.

That's not helpful, because we're all here for the same reason, and that is to thrive and belong.

- Antoinette, I know that you have thoughts about even just the categorization of AAPI, and the distinctions that need to be made.

And the microcosms that need to be kind of protected and honored as being separate.

How do you see that versus the idea that there is a strength that is created when there is kind of a unification in making the collective community heard?

- I think, for me, one of the... As a sociologist and someone who's work really is always been in comparative race and ethnicity.

I think it's really important, particularly in the context of the City Club, to first of all, talk about context and the importance of place.

I mean, we were in Ohio, in the Midwest.

And so, the experiences of Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders are very different from let's say groups that are...

Some of the folks in turn Asic who are activists in Asian American and Pacific Islander communities talk about coastal elites and the way in which people based in California, in New York, sort of get to...

Sort of shape the dominant narrative, as opposed to looking at the specificities of experiences of Asian-Americans and Pacific Islanders in the Midwest.

So, for example, again, one of the distinctions... And again, it's not so much pushing back or against solidarity, but making it very clear the terms in which we enter or positioned in the dialogue.

So, for example, in California, also the Northwest, you have much denser settlements of Pacific Islanders.

Utah, for example, is was one of the largest communities of offline Island Polynesians.

Why?

Because there's this connection to the Mormon church.

So, it's very much dependent upon where you're settling.

And for me, I've been very clear that I make community with oak wall, because this has been a productive space for me to address these issues while we're all cognizant of both internal and intra ethnic and inter ethnic differences in hierarchies.

And I think that's really important.

And it's something that Elaine was talking about that, for example, when we look at the entire just now talking about the Asian American community on its own, what we've always known scholars have often referred to this community as bi-modal.

And I mean that in terms of the normal...

The bell curve, right?

So, you have highly educated, highly... You have doctors.

Filipino nurses for example, are among the largest group of nurses in the United States.

And yet, when we look at that mode, in that set of experiences of East Asians, Korean, South Asians, their experiences are very different.

For example, when you compare them to the Hmong community, who are Southeast Asians, who came here under very specific...

In a different, again, context.

It does not mean that we cannot be in solidarity.

So in no way, am I suggesting that.

But for my...

I have Pacific Islander colleagues who feel very strongly, given, for example the Hawaii context that you have settler colonization there.

And so, Hawaiians and Micronesians are among the poorest people and have highest rates of incarceration.

And so, for me, having done my work and taught here in the Midwest, I've had exactly one Pacific Islander student in my entire career.

And so, I will... For me, the issue is oppression and how we can all understand how we're positioned.

Be that as it may, I do think we need to come back to the point that you only need to be perceived as Asian to be uncomfortable.

A group of us from Oakwall were talking to Senator Dolan.

And first of all, I said, "I'm probably "your first Pacific Islander constituent to address you."

And I talked about how, when my parents came he and I are both Catholic, Roman Catholic, came for my daughter's first communion.

And then again, for her graduation, years later, both times, they were subjected to micro-aggressions.

And my daughter mind you, and I noticed that you're a mixed race, she's mixed race.

Her father's from Worcester, and she can pass as white.

And so, when my parents were with their granddaughter, their beloved granddaughter, they were given dirty looks, like, "What are you doing with that white child?"

But so I absolutely...

I think we need to make these distinctions but I also need to address the politics at place.

Ohio, the state legislature has an opportunity for the first time to provide funding for AAPI communities to address the way in which our small business owners really do need economic relief that is linked to not just the pandemic but the additional burden of being seen as a menace.

So, I think as long as we maintain that complexity... And again, I think there's a saying, I've worked in Congress for the non-voting delegate from WAM right out of college.

And the saying there, which I think is that much more relevant is, where you sit, determines where you stand.

And I mean that in the sense that we must stand together.

I also want to mention that groups like Ellipsis Institute that was founded by my dear friend Dr. Shemariah Arki, predominantly black women of color in the Academy.

YLN here in Cleveland, the Young Latino Networks, we have been doing intersectional work to talk about both the differences and the similarities in our experiences, which leads me to the last really critical point.

All the ways in which we are penalized have to do with simply with upholding white supremacy.

And we need to address that, as educators, as professionals as people who care about civil society and the future of democracy.

- This is Jenny Hamel with ideastream.

You are listening to a City Club forum.

You just heard from Antoinette CHarfauros McDaniel, who is a member of the Ohio Progressive Asian Women's Leadership.

You've heard from Lydia Kang, college director of the Korean Central Presbyterian Church of Cleveland.

Also Elaine Tso, who is CEO of Asian Services in Action.

I know in a few minutes, we're gonna turn to your questions.

If you have any questions for our speakers, again text them to 330-541-5794.

That's 330-541-5794.

You can also tweet them @TheCityClub.

So, Lydia, you have a prominent role in the church.

And I understand that for a lot of Korean Americans, as Antoinette mentioned, I'm mixed race and I'm half Korean.

And my mother came from Seoul when she was 21.

So, I have some experience with understanding how much of a central role the church plays for a lot of Korean Christians in the country.

You have expressed to me how the dynamic has changed for let's say the Korean Christian and their relationship with their faith.

And suddenly now, with everything that's been going on kind of seeing the need to have a relationship that is outward, that is beyond the church.

So, will you elaborate on that?

And tell me, do you think that's kind of a fundamental shift that's happening?

- That's such a great question.

I have been observing that in light of our recent events against Asians, that there has been more of an open conversation going on on things that happen outside of our church walls.

I'd say that the Korean church, as you said is the cornerstone for Koreans in this community.

When people immigrate to the States from Korea they find a church because that's where they find everything else.

They find connections to healthcare, anything from dry cleaning to who's gonna make my... Who's gonna watch my kids, who's gonna... You know, all of that.

And so, what I have been seeing in the past was that the church was somewhat... Korean church specifically, was somewhat of a bubble a safe place for people to kind of escape from the racism that they face outside.

You don't talk about those things from the outside because it's painful.

And rather you be silent.

I think that's something that we have all been touching on today.

But what I have been seeing is that in light of all the protests for black lives matter, and kind of this push for racial justice in our nation, that conversation on standing up for Asian Americans, especially at the apex of crimes in America, it has been more present.

I have been seeing that we are more comfortable even being at rallies at a Stop AAPI Hate rally.

The one that happened in March, where a thousand people came together.

It really is an encouragement for me to see that we are acknowledging the pains of our community and seeing that with our faith, as followers of Jesus, Jesus fought for racial justice.

Jesus, I mean, not explicitly, but He fought for the cause of the marginalized and the oppressed, and reached out to those who were discriminated for their race as well.

And so, I'm seeing that marriage in a sense of what we believe in, from what we study in scripture to contextualizing it to our present time and seeing that this is a very active way for us to be living out our faith, not just individually but seeing that collectively, we have a broader mission.

We've got a bigger cause that we believe is in on God's heart as well.

- Elaine.

Well, Lydia, thank you for sharing that with me, 'cause I do on a personal level find that very fascinating and interesting.

Elaine, let's talk about... Antoinette's hit on it.

I would like to hear you serve an organization that serves so many.

What do you think the state and local governments can be doing when it comes to policy or office roles or anything to be a part of this moment to address, acknowledge the AAPI community in the state of Ohio and to support the growth of the community and the feeling of enfranchisement in both the conversation and safety and all the things that you need to be a thriving member of the community.

- Yeah.

That's a wonderful question.

And a question that we've been on a quest for the answer for so many years.

I've lived in Ohio longer than I've lived in any other state in the United States.

And I was really surprised to learn that the state of Ohio does not have an office of Asian affairs.

And that is critically important for us, any state or any place in this country that has Asians living within its borders to have an office that considers what the needs of that community are.

I don't think that it's the responsibility of...

It would be the responsibility of this office on Asian affairs to find out, what are the particular needs of the community?

And then empower that office to deliver on those needs and satisfy those needs, because the community is very diverse and it would not be a solution that would be one size fits all.

There would need to be inquiries to the various communities that live in the state of Ohio and tailored solutions.

- Antoinette, I'm going to turn our first question from the audience to you.

And here we go.

- Okay.

- In everyday American usage, the phrase of Asian-American has come to specifically denote East Southeast Asians.

And as an Indian American, I'm often told by East Asian Americans and white Americans that obviously I'm not Asian.

So, my question is who gets to define the term Asian American?

And how useful is it to lump disparate communities that don't necessarily identify with one another under one catchall category?

- I think that's a fantastic question.

And it really it's interesting, OPAWL recently I curated along with my colleague Suparna Bhaskaran, who is a professor at Ohio State.

And we created a four way conversation between four Asian-American or so denoted uneasily for all of us, feminist scholars, two from UCLA.

So, the panel was made up of a Vietnamese Filipino scholar who looked at Vietnamese diasporas in Guam and Palestine.

Palestinian American scholar, who looks at Arab American diaspora.

Suparna from OPAWL, who's one of the founders, by the way, who identifies as a Kores Asian woman.

And then myself as an indigenous Pacific Islander.

And what was so interesting about that conversation is the way in which our various trajectories into that space.

We're all shaped in different ways, race, empire, war, militarization.

And yet we were sort of talking about the limitations and as Elaine was saying, the possibilities of coming together to address the political, historical and structural issues that we shared in common and how they were distinct.

So, for example, yeah, I mean, for me, as my first memory of ever thinking about race is when I came back from Guam, my first memories are actually of San Diego.

My dad was in the military, which was so true of Chamorus, came back from Guam as a third grader and a little... My black classmate, his name is Leon Sikes, walked up to me and asked me, "Are you a C-H asterick N-K or a J asterick P?"

And I looked at him as a third grader, I didn't know what either of those things meant.

I just knew they were bad.

Right?

And so, I think that when we bond together, it really is about trying to figure out how is this lumping together since it's happening?

How does it allow us to fight for resources structurally in schools, in government, in making sure that healthcare institutions as Elaine was talking about, does work, provides culturally competent practitioners to be available to talk to people based on their backgrounds.

But I will say, I think from the...

I think it's really important to understand that all racialized identities are political.

They are socially constructed.

I may have more in common genetically with Lydia than I do with someone who's from Guam, it's dependent.

So, I think if we understand that race is a political construct, that nevertheless, has real consequences for people's lives.

So, there's always gonna be connection from the individual lived experiences connecting us all the way through to government, to laws, to structures, to schools, et cetera.

And that's where Asian-American/Pacific Islander becomes a tool.

And every tool has its limitations.

And that's really the point.

So, for example, Elaine, when you're talking about the need for an Asian-American office in this particular case, and some Pacific Islanders would grown, I would say, until we're at a point, where our visibility, which is even smaller that it's important to include Pacific Islanders in this place at this time.

- Lydia, I'm curious, you've you grew up in Hawaii.

I'm wondering how your own kind of personal... Antoinette shared a story from her childhood.

Are there any experiences in which you kind of recognized or felt that you were different or not as included as just kind of a normal kid in America because of your race?

- Well, actually...

So, my history is that I actually grew up in India- - Okay.

- For nine years of my life from three to 12.

So, in those days, I was the only East Asian in Southeast Asian.

Sorry, not Southeast Asian, South Asian population in my classroom.

And so, I did face some kind of difficulty.

When I moved to North California, I was in a dominantly Asian population as well.

And so, I can't really speak to that, but I can speak to feeling very different when I moved to Cleveland.

Actually, when I came here, especially in the time of COVID January, 2020, I remember I was walking on Case Western campus 'cause that's where most of my students are.

And someone rolled down their window driving by full speed yelling, "COVID."

At me.

And that's when I felt very different for the first time.

Ironically, in my 25 years of life, 26 years of life, I hadn't experienced that kind of hatred or racism until I moved here to Cleveland in the Midwest.

And of course, there have been wonderful experiences I've had in Cleveland, but that one was my first very blatant experience of hate just for the way that I looked.

- And how did that make you feel?

I mean, in that moment did it...

I mean, obviously had staying power, but I mean... - Yeah.

I actually had a flashback to a conversation that I had with my mom where she was bullied in her younger years when she lived in Queens, New York.

And when she was bullied or like literally spat upon, she would freeze.

And she couldn't say anything because not just because of language barrier, but because she had no way of processing those emotions that she was feeling.

And I felt similarly, actually in that moment.

I almost felt like I had to just look down and turn away and act like I didn't hear him yelling that at me.

But I also felt extremely unsafe.

I felt like he could find me and come back and just turn around, turn his car around and do something else to me.

So, I felt very, very vulnerable at that moment.

Yeah.

- This is Jenny Hamel with ideastream.

You're listening to a City Club forum.

And you just heard from Lydia Kang, who is the college director for the Korean Central Presbyterian Church of Cleveland.

Elaine, I'd like you to share your younger experiences in Ohio.

And I know that in our previous conversations, you talked about kind of the cultural desire to kind of keep quiet about things, even if they were painful.

When you talk about incidents that were perpetuated against you.

- Yeah.

No, thank you for that question.

So, absolutely.

I mean, as a child growing up in the Midwest, it was very difficult to be be seen as anything other than different.

I mean, it's not like I could hide or for someone to not know that I'm Asian.

So, it was very difficult when I first moved... My family had first moved into a neighborhood where there were very few people that looked like me.

And when my family was unpacking the boxes and things like that, my mom in her typical way, what saying, "Go out, go out, meet the friends in the community."

And so, I went out and I ventured out and I came across a porch that had like a child there.

And I got scared because I was like five years old and didn't know anyone, didn't know anyone in the new neighborhood.

And so, I hid behind a tree and I kept peering out, thinking if that child that was about my age would talk to me.

But unfortunately the encounter was one where that child, that was about my age, instead of saying, "Hi, welcome to the neighborhood."

Or something along those lines.

The child who was still young but five years old said to me, kind of came closer, closer to say to me... And it just kind of like rings in my memories.

"You don't speak English, do you?"

And it was such a shock that I just I ran all the way back to our home.

And I told my mom, "We need to move.

"We can't live here.

"The kids aren't friendly.

"I need to run away."

And that was very sad and unfortunate, but to be honest, it made me into the person that I am today because my mom told me to ignore it and be above it and not consider it... Don't make that a weakness for me.

Find strength.

Find strength in someone else's heartlessness and be a bigger better person to represent your community.

And so for the rest of my educational experience, for the rest of my career, it was extremely important for me to make sure that everyone knew that I speak English.

I can speak it as well as you do.

And let's go, if you want to say that I'm not able to do something because of my race or my heritage.

- Elaine, I'm going to ask you another audience question because I know that your organization is kind of actively working on the protection of the AAPI community in light of all the attacks.

And you've discussed kind of even dialogues with law enforcement, as far as their understanding of hate crimes against Asian-Americans, or have at least worked with members of your organization in dealing with that.

The question is, do the speakers think the current hate crime laws can effectively address acts of prejudice against the AAPI community and other marginalized groups?

If not, what would they change?

And I guess I would just add to that, what would you change in terms of even law enforcement approach or perception when it comes to acknowledging hate crimes against the AAPI community?

- Yeah.

So, that's been one of the biggest challenges during the current uptick in unwanted anti-Asian bias and mistreatment.

So, it's extremely important, in order to address a problem for that problem to be known, to report it, document it, track it.

That piece, I think we all can agree is extremely important.

Unfortunately, what happens a lot of times is an incident will be reported to the police, and it will not get the same consideration or it won't be acknowledged in the same way that another report of an incident might be.

And I say this as an attorney licensed in the State of Ohio, who is...

I'm aware that there is no hate crime per se law in the state of Ohio.

What the state of Ohio has, is a statute that makes...

It enhances the crime, if it is related to race, ethnicity or gender and a list of other characteristics related to the incident.

But there isn't a standalone hate crime act in the state of Ohio.

And I think one is needed.

I don't have the the exact formula for what that would look like, but for sure the key stakeholders across the state need to at least sit down and consider a law that makes it illegal to commit acts of hate against anyone in the space.

Additionally, something that's a concern for the community anyway, is that there's this hesitancy to report acts of hate, or anti-Asian sentiment because the police, I don't think that they fully understand the circumstances or when an incident is happening, it might not be the best solution to call the police because it could cause the situation to escalate or if police came and did not believe the victim of an anti-Asian act, that that would be revictimizing the individual all over again, to have to say that someone did something.

And it was because of my race.

So, for sure, the Asian community, we're working as an organization, Asian Services in Action is working with the community to have other safety plans.

If a community member has been victimized in a way related to anti-Asian hate, we have bilingual advocates available if that individual wishes to report it.

But if the individual wishes just to have the incident be heard and address some sort of healing strategies, we have available staff as well.

- Antoinette, what do you think can be done in greater support of those who feel that they have been victims of prejudice or even hate crimes?

Are there changes that can be made kind of systemically or with the agencies of power in Ohio and in this country to support the AAPI community when it comes to violence against, or attacks against of, in any nature?

- Right.

Thank you for the question.

I think it's a really important one.

And I think that a number of experts who have studied anti-Asian violence and just violence more generally, in various communities really want to go even deeper than that, want to get to the root causes of sort of dominant narratives around who we are, the lack of education.

After leaving Oberlin, I've taught at several institutions, universities around Cleveland, the Cleveland area, and not one of them had a single course, or I didn't see my colleagues who are sociologists teaching about Asian-American studies with recent exceptions at John Carroll.

So, I think part of it is getting to the root causes, expanding our understanding of civil rights because there's a way in which more policing may exacerbate the problem as opposed to address again, the underlying causes of it.

One of the things that OPAWL in particular would advocate for is changes in the curriculum K through 12, as well as I would encourage my colleagues around the city to again... And this goes back to Elaine's point about DEI spaces, where it never even occurs to political science departments, sociology departments, history departments, with very exceptions in Ohio to really address the Asian-American Pacific Islander experience.

So, I think it needs to go deeper than that.

Another one of the options is to really train both teachers and healthcare workers, wherever their institutions and people have power, to learn about bystander training.

How can you change the interaction that heartbreaking experience of watching this elderly woman be pummeled, and to see someone closing the door as her poor body was lying on the... And I think one of the commonalities I will address that are very much shared by Asian Americans, Pacific Islanders but also Latinx communities is our reverence for our elderly.

And so, I think there's something that's really gutting for us to think that our parents who are watering their gardens, who are getting some daily exercise, would be vulnerable.

So, for OPAWL and for myself, I would say it's not so much about policing but addressing underlying root causes, because that's what will make the difference long-term as opposed to... And also, at some basic level what we're saying is let's change the conditions in which people who are of Asian American descent perceived to be such or simply different are looked at as possible targets to take displaced anger out on.

We're not the cause - Antoinette, - We are out of time.

I am so sorry.

- All right.

Sorry about that.

- I can go on forever (Antoinette laughs) with you ladies.

You have so much to say, and this is such an important conversation.

But I wanna thank everyone for joining us for our Friday forum.

We have been talking about the issues facing the Asian-American Pacific Islander community.

We were joined by Antoinette CHarfauros McDaniel, a member of the Ohio Progressive Asian Women's Leadership.

Lydia Kang, college director for the Korean Central Presbyterian Church of Cleveland.

And Elaine Tso, CEO of Asian Services in Action Incorporated.

I appreciate all of your time.

And I'd like to thank the members, sponsors and donors and others who support the City Club's mission to create conversations of consequence that help democracy thrive.

They have some great conversations coming up next week on Thursday.

They'll present this annual state of the County address with Cuyahoga County Executive, Armond Budish.

And on Friday, City Club CEO, Dan Moulthrop, will talk with congressman, Anthony Gonzalez.

You can find out more and see what else is coming up at cityclub.org.

And check out what you miss there, or on PBS Passport, Roku, Amazon Fire Stick, Vimeo.

And of course, the YouTube channel.

I am Jenny Hamel.

Thank you so much for joining us today from our ideastream studio.

Our forum is now adjourned.

(bell ringing gently) - [Narrator] For information on upcoming speakers or for podcasts of the City Club, go to city club.org.

(upbeat music) - [Narrator] Production and distribution of City Club forums on ideastream are made possible by the generous support of PNC, and the United Black Fund of Greater Cleveland Incorporated.