- The data tells us that every minute of every day, 20 people are physically abused by an intimate partner in the United States.

Today's guest has turned her personal experience with domestic abuse into a calling to prevent domestic violence and help victims.

She's Ashley Bendiksen this week on Story in the Public Square.

(upbeat music) (upbeat music continues) Hello and welcome to Story in the Public Square, where storytelling meets public affairs.

I'm Jim Ludes from the Pell Center at Salve Regina University.

- And I'm G. Wayne Miller also with Salves Pell Center.

- And our guest this week is Ashley Bendiksen, a domestic abuse survivor, an expert speaker, and an award-winning activist.

Ashley, thank you so much for being with us this week.

- Thank you so much for having me on the show.

- So October is Domestic Violence Awareness month, and so we wanted to have this conversation with you.

Your advocacy is important, your voice is important, but tell us a little bit about the phenomena nationally.

How big a problem are we talking about here?

- Sure.

And as I mentioned, thank you for having me on the show because this is absolutely a huge issue impacting lives in every state, every community across the US.

And while there are numerous different statistics I could share with you, I think the most prominent ones come from the National Coalition Against Domestic Violence, which indicates that one in four women and one in seven men will experience physical violence alone during the course of their lifetime.

So already those numbers are pretty staggering.

However, as we'll talk a little bit more about what abuse is, the number grows even more when we talk about things like coercive control and psychological aggression with one national study finding that just under half of both men and women have experienced that by an intimate partner.

So, these issues are enormous, impacting countless people.

They're often under-reported.

And I also think it's really important that we point out it's not just men, it's not just women, all gender identities, the trans community, all people are affected by this issue.

- Those numbers are breathtaking.

- [G.Wayne] Yeah, horrifying.

- [Ashley] Yeah.

- Why don't we talk about it more?

- That is a great question.

And to be honest, it's the question I ask constantly in my work is, "why is no one talking about this?"

You know, real quick, just personally when I realized I was a victim, that was my first question to myself is, "This is so common, there's a language for this, there's definitions, but no one's talking about this."

And, you know, there's many reasons.

There's internal and external barriers to feeling comfortable, to disclosing.

There is a lot of oppression and lack of access to resources.

And I think for many people it's just inherently a very personal issue where no one really wants to admit that their partner might be abusive towards them.

There's just, there's countless barriers.

So it's a complex answer.

- Is it?

There's still a lot of shame associated with being a victim.

- There certainly can be, yeah.

You know, I guess that depends how you view shame.

There are many victims who feel responsible, feel like it's their fault.

But I think, you know, there's this fear of public shame as well.

What will people think?

You know, will society accept this?

Will I be labeled as a liar if I come out?

So yeah, there's a lot of barriers.

- So are those reasons why a lot of these cases go unreported?

You mentioned that many do.

And so the true number probably isn't really known.

Why do they go unreported?

- Yeah, I think it's a mix.

Well, I know it's a mix of one, both not feeling comfortable, disclosing that one is experiencing abuse.

Many victims also, however, just don't know that what they're experiencing is abuse if the dynamics come from cultural norms or social norms or things that we have, you know, normalized as behaviors in relationships, many just don't realize that they are experiencing abuse.

And then add to that, you know, a slew of actual barriers when it comes to injustices and inequities.

And if you don't fit the, you know, perfect mold of a victim who can go knock on the women's center door, maybe there's no resources for you.

This becomes especially challenging for, say, survivors who might have a different gender identity.

Maybe a trans Black male doesn't know where they can go for help, or they might label their experience as something other than abuse.

- So there's physical abuse, but there are other kinds as well.

This economic, this psychological, which you mentioned, get into that because I think some people may have sort of the image that it's only physical abuse that constitutes domestic violence and that's not the case.

- Correct.

This is perhaps the greatest misconception is that we hear the terms domestic violence and we think physical harm.

- [G. Wayne] Right.

- And while yes, that does happen, as evidenced by that first statistic, and often it does happen as the abuse progresses, most people do experience psychological, emotional and economic abuse.

So often this will be referred to as coercive control.

So a dynamic where a partner is just slowly but subtly kind of eroding a person's sense of agency and autonomy, and they're kind of controlling little aspects of their life from whether they see friends and have a social outlet to whether they can have a job.

And in fact, speaking of statistics, nationally, it is cited that 99% of domestic violence victims experience some form of financial abuse, which also makes it harder then to leave.

So a partner may not allow the person they're with to have a job, they might put them in a financially insecure position, whether that's spending all of their partner's money.

So it's a really complex issue.

So there's many forms of abuse.

- Is there a simple definition of abuse itself?

Like when does behavior rise to the level where we would consider it abusive?

- That's a great question.

So I think to define it, we could say domestic violence is a relationship in which one partner not both having some toxic behaviors, one partner employs a number of different tactics to maintain power and control.

And a partner can do that by physically harming the person they're with.

Or they can do that by cutting off their access to money and resources or their ability to have a job or calling them a name repeatedly, that slowly erodes their self-esteem.

So that's the pattern that you wanna recognize one person kind of constantly being the instigator and doing things that gives them that sense of power and control.

- So, what compels someone to be that person is it... - [Speaker] The abuser?

- The back?

I'm talking about the abuser, yeah.

Is it that person's background?

Is it learned?

What is it?

I mean, all of this is repugnant.

So, you know, in an ideal world, nobody would ever do something.

But what's going on in the minds of these people?

Why?

- Yeah, so for the most part, domestic violence is a learned behavior.

A lot of it can be traced back to an individual seeing certain behaviors young or perhaps trying out certain tactics when they were younger to get their way.

And this just becomes ingrained in them as appropriate responses to conflict or feelings of insecurity.

So, you know, a lot of it is just learned, you know, are people born with challenges that impact their behaviors and decisions?

Yes, but domestic violence is typically something they've seen, witnessed and are perpetuating themselves.

- Do you have a sense of...

So we've talked about sort of the broad sweep of gender identities that might be affected, but abuse of children and abuse of elders, right?

Sometimes it's cross generations, right?

- Absolutely.

I think another misconception is that we hear domestic violence and we think this is a very adult issue.

We may even think this is an issue that impacts married couples, but it's all relationships all across the lifespan.

You know, children experience domestic violence in a myriad of ways, whether they are seeing it or witnessing it in the home, or even being the recipient themselves.

You know, there's this concept called adverse childhood experiences, which basically looks at those, you know, childhood experiences that predispose a person to struggles later in life.

And abuse is the number one sided adverse childhood experience.

So not only is it damaging for children then, but lifelong, and then on the opposite end of this spectrum, you know, seniors can also experience abuse, whether that's by their lifelong partner or it could be a caretaker, parent, caretaker, patient.

You know, anytime you also bring in extra vulnerabilities in a person, that also makes them more at risk for potential harm and abuse.

- So can perpetrators be treated so that they stop these behaviors?

- There are programs that are focused on batterer intervention.

- [G. Wayne] Yeah.

- Often they are mandated through the court system.

So it's really challenging, it's something that's being required of an individual after they've gotten in trouble.

There's not always the most openness and willingness to go through the program.

However, there are these behavioral modification programs in place.

Personally, you know, just from my experience, you know, whether it's a young person or a teenager or someone who's older, a lot of this comes from one having flawed beliefs around, you know, power dynamics and gender roles, but also struggling to kind of just regulate one's emotions, you know?

So a lot of this is just being able to recognize that what you're doing is harmful, abusive, unequal, and wanting to work with a specialist, even a really well-trained therapist on how to unlearn those behaviors that learned young.

So, there are resources, but unfortunately they're not as accessible as the resources for victims.

And I think that's a whole nother piece of this conversation is how do we actually help those who abuse get the help they need to change those behaviors too.

- Well, and you described some of your work as being in domestic abuse prevention.

How do we prevent the abuse from taking place in the first place, particularly when it's an intimate relationship that we don't always have insight in unless we're part of that dynamic?

- Yeah, prevention is a loosely used word.

It's probably more accurately reduction or prevention of things escalating and getting to a certain level of harm.

You know, I think one thing that few people understand about abuse is that no one is abusive in the beginning.

They're often wonderful and charming and lovely and everything you would possibly want in a partner, and then they change later.

So it's really about having the knowledge and the language to recognize, "Oh, that thing this person just did was a red flag."

And that's where I think the prevention piece comes in.

If people can really recognize, "Okay, my partner right now is upset because I have friends of my own, that's a red flag."

Knowing that versus just thinking, "Oh, they love me and wanna spend all their time with me."

You know, that gives you the empowerment and awareness to know maybe this isn't the healthiest relationship.

But there's many different prevention efforts that are taking place.

Everything from looking at social and community systems and inequities and making sure that communities are equipped to reduce these issues and respond from engaging men in the effort to really have men having dialogues around what is healthy masculinity, are the gender roles that we once believed in now ones we need to stop discussing.

So there's a lot of preventative efforts.

- Where should, where does, I'm not sure what the right verb tense here is, but where should that education take place to give people that sense of saying, " Well, wait a minute, that's a red flag."

- Well, the bulk of my work today is speaking to students, and I'm a huge advocate for teaching healthy relationship skills young.

- [Jim] Yeah.

- This is when those things become ingrained and embedded in just our natural responses.

So yes, we can teach people later in life, but I think the younger the better.

And it doesn't have to be conversations around healthy dating for, you know, middle schoolers.

It can just be healthy friendships, recognizing when someone's presence doesn't make you feel good about yourself, recognizing when something doesn't feel right or this person might have a bad influence on you.

You know, those are just very basic traits that come down to our own self-advocacy and self-awareness and being able to make choices for ourselves in life.

So, I think we should be teaching this as young as elementary school from that healthy interpersonal skills perspective.

- So has awareness of this issue grown since you began your advocacy many years ago?

Have you seen any progress on that front?

- I would say yes and that's largely due in part to just the platforms we have today to raise awareness.

With the advent of technology now being at our fingertips, more survivors having platforms to share their stories, celebrities taking place, taking part in know advocacy campaigns.

There's certainly more awareness out there, and learning is so much more accessible.

If you want to look up the red flags of abuse, you can quickly Google it and there are endless websites.

So I do feel like there has been a lot of amazing work that's done.

On the flip side of that coin though, you also have a lot of problematic views out on the internet and advice on Reddit forums or TikTok videos about what's healthy that's actually not at all.

So there's still the need to counter that and make sure we're all agreeing to what's right and what isn't.

- So if somebody, someone in our audience today is listening to this and recognizes that they are in an abusive relationship, what resources are available?

- I think step one is to educate yourself on what abuse is.

Many people who are living through it, believe that their situation is unique, complex, hard to explain.

And it's really eyeopening sometimes when you go do a Google search and you read an article and you realize that your story is in writing right in front of you, that awareness is a huge step.

And leaving is complex, it's also unsafe.

And this is why it's really important to then talk to a specialist.

There are agencies nationally and in every community that have free, confidential, anonymous resources, there are even text lines where you can anonymously start to get some objective advice from, you know, someone who's not in your world.

And I think just that information gathering and kind of planning is a great first step.

And should you decide to leave this relationship, working with those specialists is critical to really figure out how do I do this safely in case my partner lashes out, gets upset, tries to find me, keeps blowing up my phone.

They will give you amazing personalized tips on how to do this in the safest way possible, while also pointing you to other resources that you might need.

- So you are a survivor yourself.

How was your life affected during that period when the abuse was taking place?

- Yeah, thank you for asking.

So I experienced abuse from the ages of 14 to 20 by my first boyfriend and then multiple other individuals after that.

And it completely turned my life upside down.

You know, I grew up in a small town, two parent loving home, was never exposed to these issues.

I was relatively outgoing and confident, and I loved school and I was just kind of that, you know, gold star chasing kid.

And then when this first abusive relationship came into my life, it affected me mentally.

I, for the first time experienced anxiety and depression as a teen, not knowing how to cope, not feeling comfortable talking to an adult.

I turned to a lot of unhealthy coping tools.

I was experimenting with substances and I had disordered eating habits.

I was self-harming and my grades were dropping.

And it just felt like everything else in my life felt impossible to focus on because something like this feels all consuming.

And to make a long story short, you know, my life was derailed so much that six years later I was homeless, penniless and had to drop out of college because of my abusive partner.

So it totally changed not just my life but me.

And, you know, I often say that when I finally started to escape, you know, perhaps even worse than the trauma of what I'd gone through was realizing I didn't even know who I was anymore.

And that was part of my healing journey and my rebuilding process.

And this is very true for a lot of victims and survivors that, you know, it's not just a toxic relationship that's over here in your life.

It becomes this all consuming thing that can really change and destroy you in many ways.

So it had a tremendous impact on my life, but obviously today it also gave me a purpose and a path forward.

And I'm so grateful to do what I do today to kind of be that voice and raise awareness that I needed.

- How did your healing begin?

So you describe sort of that natter but how did you recover from that?

What was your path out?

- Yeah, so unfortunately I only left after my partner did become physically aggressive.

I was one of those people who often said, "Well, my partner's never hit me, this isn't abuse."

But unfortunately, that did start to occur over time.

And I left because he was arrested.

I had to go through the court system and it really marked a rock bottom for me.

And it was at that rock bottom that I just kind of had this moment where I saw so clearly that my life was in pieces because of him, because of the person before him.

I just kind of saw this bird's eye view of my life and realized they ruined everything.

You know, for a long time I thought it was me.

I thought that there was something wrong with me and that's why I was attracting this.

And, you know, I share this story and I don't mean to share it lightly because for many victims, for many survivors, the process of leaving and healing is so complex.

And why I just had this little moment of clarity and decided to change my life and started working on it, you know, is still a mystery to me.

But just having that awareness, I knew I have to fix this, I can't go through this again.

And it was a slow challenging process of learning what abuse was, being able to diagnose my situation, kind of externalize it and not feel so guilty about everything I'd gone through.

And probably the most helpful thing was that I got involved in anti-domestic violence efforts during my own healing.

I wanted to learn, I wanted to give back a little bit, but getting involved in that movement was so empowering and really kind of gave me this springboard towards kind of the rest of my healing journey and where I am today.

But this is atypical, you know, I have inherent privilege in my journey and, you know, just deciding you wanna change your life is not the norm.

And I think that's really important that I make that abundantly clear, which is why it's important to ask for help, tap into those resources and know that healing is going to be a complex but ultimately rewarding process if you can stick it out.

- So you went on to do the great work you do now, but I also want to note that you returned to college, Salve Regina University, where Jim and I both work.

And not only did you return, you were the valedictorian of the class of 2013.

- [Ashley] I was.

- Talk about that.

(all laughing) - Oh my gosh.

I mean, what a triumph that must have been that's just extraordinary, really.

- Yeah.

- And congratulations.

- Thank you.

- A little belatedly, but congratulations.

- Thank you.

It's still one of my proudest moments to this day.

You know, it took me many years to put back all the broken pieces together, and going back to school was kind of the last piece of that puzzle for me.

You know, that was something that my abusive partner had taken away.

And I remember when I went back, you know, maybe this is like the Virgo in me, but I thought, "I'm gonna go back and I'm not just gonna graduate, I'm gonna graduate top of my class and then I'm gonna speak and I'm gonna share this story."

And that was like my driving vision.

Whether it happened or not, I knew that I would land close because that's how motivated I was.

But what I realized is that by having a clear goal, by wanting it badly enough, and by surrounding myself with healthy relationships, these types of things became more achievable.

So, it wasn't that I, you know, woke up one day and now I was a genius and didn't realize all those years it was that I was driven, motivated, focused, and I didn't have a partner in my life crushing my dreams.

And so I'm very proud of that to this day.

And yeah, very special moment.

- You know, when we were chatting in the greet room before we got started, I told you that I personally, I worried about this conversation because here we are, two men interviewing you, a survivor about domestic violence, and there's a certain level of discomfort that I feel because I don't wanna cross any lines for you, and you've just been so gracious and wonderful and open about this, you've put me at ease.

But I'm wondering if somebody in our audience has somebody in their life that they think is struggling confronting their own abuser or dealing with this, do you have advice for those, you know, I guess it's bystander intervention, right?

Do you have advice for those people who might have somebody in their life who is a victim of domestic abuse?

- Yeah, this can be one of the most challenging positions to be in.

It can feel inherently frustrating, especially if you've maybe tried to talk to this person and they've not heeded your advice.

And so I would say, you know, I would say the best thing that they can do is one, be direct when it's needed.

Say things like, "You know, that's not healthy."

Or, "That's a red flag."

If you recognize something, let's help this person to self-reflect.

But I think a big mistake that people make when they try to talk to a loved one is they'll kind of attack the abusive partner and say, "They shouldn't be doing this."

"And I don't like that.

"And that wasn't okay."

And any victim is going to defend their partner.

This is just, they're trying to survive one day at a time.

And they're not about to say, "You're right, this is abuse."

So a really empowering approach is to focus on your concerns for your loved one.

Pointing out things like recognizing how they've changed or that you're worried about them.

So for example, "Hey Ashley, you used to come out every Wednesday with all of us to that yoga class and I noticed that you've had a lot of excuses lately, or it seems like you can never make it, is everything okay?"

Those little things, just focusing on the individual versus the relationship versus the partner and what they're doing.

Sometimes that's the most powerful thing you can do, because that plants those little seeds of awareness that you're right, maybe I am different, maybe this is hurting me.

So, you know, being a loved one, being a friend requires patience, persistence, and most importantly, presence.

Because most abusive partners want to isolate the person that they're with from their support network.

So it's just about kind of having that knowledge of what abuse is like, knowing it's complex.

And all you can really do is just kind of stay a constant presence in their life, knowing that when they're ready, they will turn to you.

- So among the organizations where victims can find help is the National Domestic Violence Hotline.

The hotline, thehotline.org.

There you can text call or live chat.

And there are others.

We only have about a minute left here, but can you recommend a couple of other sites?

I mean, this is a legitimate site.

We check that out with you and I check that out myself.

There are others though too.

- Yes, so that's our national organization.

However, there is an agency in every single state.

So you can just type your state name and find organizations that are more local to you.

Your community might even have these organizations.

And again, you can start by being completely anonymous and confidential.

- And if people wanna know more about you, it's ashleybendiksen.com.

- That's it.

- That's it.

Ashley Bendiksen, thank you for spending some time with us today, it's a hugely important issue, we're grateful to you for your time.

That is all we've got this week but if you wanna know more about Story in the Public Square, you can find us on social media or visit pellcenter.org where you can always catch up on previous episodes.

For G. Wayne Miller, I'm Jim Ludes asking you to join us again next time for more Story in the Public Square.

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