- In the midst of a year that saw pandemic disease social unrest, and bare-knuckled politics.

Hollywood turned out a tremendous body of work even while theaters closed.

And the films created for the big screen streamed directly to our homes.

Today's guest says this year's Academy award nominees reflect the issues facing Americans.

He's Pete Hammond this week on Story in the Public Square.

(low upbeat music) Hello, and welcome to a Story in the Public Square where storytelling meets public affairs.

I'm Jim Ludes from The Pell Center at Salve Regina University.

Joining me from his home in Rhode Island is my friend and cohost G Wayne Miller of The Providence Journal.

Each week we talk about big issues with great guests authors journalists, artists, and more to make sense of the big stories shaping public life in the United States today this week, we're talking about this year's Academy award nominees with Pete Hammond the Awards Columnist, and Chief Film Critic for Deadline.

Who's joining us from his home in California.

Pete, thank you so much for being with us.

- [Pete] Absolutely happy to be here.

Also, the Academy awards are set for April 25th.

Before we get into talking about some of the nominees.

I wonder if you can just give us a sense at the end of this first year of the pandemic, what's the state of the film industry?

- Yeah.

The state of the film industry is in flux right now.

And that goes to a movie theaters.

The whole idea of what the future is going to look like after this year, where streamers have really owned the conversation and, you know, and there used to be what they call windows of 60 days or more between a movie's released and when it would appear in different forms available on video and streaming and that, and that seems to be disappearing now.

And the studios are finding new ways of bringing movies to film goers and that's going to be a real mark of of what this pandemic has provided.

And that certainly affected the award season here as well because for the first time ever the Academy Awards voters are watching these movies on their television.

Let's hope they're big screen TVs, but you know God help us if it's on their laptops or even their phones, however, they're getting this.

And so it might affect the way they're voting for movies even in watching movies designed for the big screen that are being watched on much smaller screens now, and the movie business it will be interesting to see how it comes out of this.

And if, film goers returned to theaters are if they've gotten used to watching movies this way permanently, I hope not.

I'm a big proponent of theaters.

- Well, I wanted to ask you about that.

I've heard rock stars say that when they started performing in small clubs, the kind of song that they were right for a small club was different than what they would write if they were expecting to perform in a massive arena, having to do with the harmonics the intimacy with the crowd, all of that does the story you tell on a 60 inch flat screen television is a different than if you tell it to an audience in a theater with a two story tall screen.

- Well I think that is the thinking of a lot of studios.

There are certain movies they've reserved for their big screen of films.

These Blockbusters tent poles, they call them and and the movie business has been drifting towards that anyway.

And the other kinds of smaller films that studios used to make particularly and used to release have been fading that that middle range movie.

And that seems to be more aware actors and other creative artists are drifting towards opportunities in streaming that Netflix and Amazon and different places to tell those stories which aren't hurt by seeing by being seen on a smaller screen.

Certainly though, we're seeing now movies, we just announced that "Black Widow", Disney's Marvel movie is going to go what they call day and date same day as streaming on Disney Plus that's a sea change.

And, and I don't know that that's going to work because the movie going has always been sold as this big thing.

You got to go out to a surround sound watching it with an audience.

There is a different vibe for those kinds of movies.

And I don't know if they'll play as well.

And I think that may send people to the option of going to theaters still to see that kind of thing.

But you're right.

There is a different type of movie that you might make for that as opposed to a streaming.

- [Wayne] So obviously one of the driving forces here will be whether or not people do return to theaters for the experience that you just mentioned which by the way is really many movies, the best way to see a movie.

But we're now into the second year of the pandemic.

It's been a horrible year, you know, in terms of tragedy and suffering and people, do you think people will be Larry?

I know you don't have a crystal ball but what's your best guess?

- [Pete] Well, you know, look the theaters just opened where I am in Los Angeles.

They've been closed a solid year, except for drive-ins.

This has brought back the drive in folks, but but they have been closed.

And so we're going to see here in in the big centers that really studios count on for a lot of the gross of movies, a Los Angeles, New York city and see if they're going to go in and if they're comfortable doing it certainly I've seen evidence that they are so far but you can only have 25% capacity.

So it's a much smaller crowd.

I don't know, financially if it makes a whole lot of sense.

So we need to get back to that point where people went out without thinking that they're gonna die, you know, going to see a movie.

And so the theater chains have done a lot to try to assure people that the ventilation is good.

The cleaning systems they have now are beyond state-of-the-art in cleaning theaters.

After every show, the way they deliver popcorn and different things has changed considerably as well as people go in, they'll get more used to it just as they seem to be getting more used to the idea of getting the shot.

That's going to help them out there with some trepidation with that.

But the numbers seem to be going in the right direction.

We hope, and, and we'll get through this and that and this will come back.

People will be comfortable.

And this doesn't just go for movie theaters.

It's even more for Broadway for live theater.

It's even more important to have full audiences.

So they they're gonna be the last in this chain of coming back.

And with everyone comfortable, you know those Broadway theaters are just so tightly with the seats and everything so tight together, as opposed to a lot of movie theaters now have their own version of social distancing.

They've got much bigger seats and in some of the ones that have been redone before the pandemic.

So I think they'll adjust a little bit better but concerts Broadway live theater might have a a bigger problem.

- [Wayne] How has the pandemic changed production?

You know, starting at the beginning of the process actually making a film, obviously, you know studios were shut down for a while but where things stand now and, and what's what's ahead in the future.

- [Pete] Well, they've sort of gotten into a rhythm production is definitely going on.

There are serious protocols.

I mean, you know, I've talked to people like Ryan Murphy who has five [Pete] or six shows going all at once.

And he says, he's had hundreds and hundreds of tests.

You know, they test every day.

They sometimes test more than once a day.

If someone gets a COVID positive tests that can affect the production, it will have to shut down for a number of days.

They're very careful.

The movie industry has really moved seriously into a making sure that it's safe to make these movies in terms of also shooting certain scenes that you may have written into a script before.

You may think twice now about that kind of a scene how that's gonna play out intimacy scenes, all sorts of things have changed in the way they're shooting them and the way they're writing them.

So that and that may be permanent.

You know, that that may be a while before they get out of it, but it doesn't seem to have affected the final product in any noticeable way.

Yet if you watch television right now, you know and all these shows have been produced this season under this kind of thing they look pretty much the same to me.

And we'll see what these movies look like as they start to come out now as well.

- [Jim] Well, let's get into the list of some of the nominees for this year.

And in particular, let's maybe focus on the on the films that have been nominated for, for for best picture.

And we'll just run through these and we'll get your take on sort of the films themselves and their chances this year.

[Jim] Let's start with "The Father" from Sony Classics.

- [Pete] Yeah, well, that's based on a play and it was actually on Broadway, won a Tony award for Frank Langella but the Florian Zeller who wrote the play in French it was a French play by the way, and has gotten a chance to adapt it in this English language version with [Pete] Anthony Hopkins and Olivia Coleman about the onset of dementia with this man.

And it's a fascinating movie.

And I think the way it's connected here, it's been very smartly brought to the screen by Florian Zeller who knows his material well, but you see it all [Pete] through the perspective of Anthony Hopkins as he's going through this.

And so the film also got nominations, a small kind of chamber drama for production design.

And why would that happen?

Because they suddenly change the set, the apartment that he lives in to see it through his perspective.

So you suddenly see rooms looking different as if in the eyes of someone who is going through this and not seeing things as they normally would be.

And that's really an interesting kind of thing they've done.

So it's up for editing, it's up for production design setup for all these kind of categories that don't count and and overall best picture, because I think it's really hit a nerve here with Academy members - [Wayne] You know that, those subtle changes that they make in that room.

Also I was thinking about that when I watched "The Sound of Metal" from Amazon, this is this is a film about a heavy metal drummer.

[Wayne] Who's losing his hearing, but they do things with the audio effects that I found physically uncomfortable.

- [Pete] Yeah.

And that was on purpose.

They actually through Derrius martyr and his sound team, Nicholas Becker, and him and his group to actually put it again very much like The Father and put it in the head of the audience watching it and make you uncomfortable, make you feel like you're, you're experiencing that hearing loss as he is.

I think it's a tremendously effective that movie also it's up in the editing category as well because it's very tricky to put that together.

They worked for months to achieve this effect and it's groundbreaking in the sound, you know the sound category, the Oscars have people vote on it.

If they're not in the sound branch and think it's just, what's the loudest movie.

And usually all you see are these Blockbuster, you know Marvel movies and things nominated for sound or war movies, sometimes musicals.

This is a real example of the art of sound.

And I hope people recognize that.

And I hope it wins in that category too.

And as best picture, you know that got in from a streamer, this, this is the kind of movie that would never have really been discovered on any big level, even by the Academy except that in this year there's an even playing field here and a movie like that.

That's very good, got in and that's unique.

- [Wayne] So what about "Judas and the Black Messiah" from Warner brothers?

That's also nominated for best picture.

- [Pete] This one came in late breaking it's from a major studio, remember them and (both laughing) - [Wayne] You mean Amazon right?

(all laughing) - [Pete] You know, Warner's came out with it.

They had a number of other things a big movie, Christopher Nolan's "Tenet" which was one of the early releases here in this year and was expected to be a big player here.

And isn't got a couple of craft nominations but this movie snuck up because it has a lot to say it's one of a number of social issue, movies that are here about the Black Panthers and Fred Hampton who was head of the Chicago Chapter of the Black Panthers.

And he's played by Daniel Kaluuya [Pete] and then an investigation into them by the FBI and others who are infiltrating that group in Hoover's FBI.

And they enlist this character played by Lakeith Stanfield.

And it's all true story to sort of go in and and be a mole here.

And it's so effectively made here but it's also the first movie ever nominated for best picture to have all Black Producers.

And that's significant.

And this is, this year is significant.

And there's been a number of Black themed movies that could have been nominated for best picture and are in other categories Ma Rainey's Black Bottom, One Night in Miami on and on with that list of spike Lee's "Defied Bloods."

This is the only one of those movies that rated a nomination.

And it's interesting that it did.

And Warner Brothers has released it in conjunction with the launch of HBO Max their new streaming service Warner Media.

So you can see this day in date as, as well.

So that's unusual for a major studio.

That's had many Oscar nominations for best picture.

First one where it's debuted the same day as it did at homes.

- It's not the only film that looks at the activist movements in the 1960s.

In fact, it's not even the only movie in this category.

That's got Fred Hampton perforated.

So we've got "The Trial of the Chicago 7" from Netflix.

Tell us about that.

- [Pete] Well, that's my favorite movie of the bunch when I did my 10 best list.

[Pete] That was number one on it.

And I think Aaron Sorkin who wrote it and directed it but it started about 13, 14 years ago.

And the head of Steven Spielberg who knew this story this crazy trial that happened in the early 70s about riots that occurred at the 1968 Democratic Convention.

And, you know, the instigators, as they said, were put on trial, the Chicago 7, and finally Aaron Sorkin it came around to him and he directed it's a second film directing and it's taken on such resonance now.

I mean, even when they made it they had no idea that when it would be released it would be mirroring what's going on in this country right now.

And so it's one of those movies that may have an advantage because Academy members love to give their best picture to something they feel is important or maybe saying something that makes them feel good too.

This movie fits the bill perfectly for that.

[Pete] And it's got a great ensemble cast of actors down the line and that helps cause actors that make up the biggest branch of the Academy.

So that's an important thing to have.

It's checks all the boxes here.

And it's an exceptionally well-made movie because it not only covers the trial.

It covers what went on before covers the riots.

And it covers the interactions between these characters particularly the Tom Hayden versus Abbie Hoffman and that kind of conflict they had which is kind of fascinating.

And that this movie gives a more detail on.

- [Wayne] So you started at your favorites Is it your pick to win?

- Yeah you know, it could win.

It's a very difficult year to sort of see how the whole pandemic and watching these movies at home.

I think this one plays well in that way, as opposed to one we haven't talked about yet, but is the front runner because all the critics groups picked it and that's "Nomadland."

And, and that movie is a very slow moving, quiet beautifully shot, but your attention, and I think benefits [Pete] from being seen in a theater, quite frankly and I think you can get distracted at home when you're watching a movie like that which is a beautiful film.

Chloe Zhao the Chinese American Director has done this story of those who have dropped out of society and hit the road in their vans and live like nomads.

And Frances McDormand actually is a producer on it too.

So if it wins best picture she'll get an Oscar on that level in addition to best actress, if she were to win that.

So it's a very interesting small movie that has won all the Critics Awards.

So it's got going in it's definitely the front runner at won the Golden Globe.

It won the Critic's Choice Award.

So all these televised awards we'll see what happens as we get closer to the Oscars.

I'm not making my prediction yet.

I think there are other factors including a couple of movies we haven't talked about yet.

- Well, let's talk about a Promising Young Woman from Searchlight, excuse me.

From Focus Features, "Promising Young Women" [Jim] from Focus Features.

I gotta tell ya this.

I've tried to describe this movie to a couple of people and I don't think I can do it justice.

This one, this one, you know, socked me in the stomach.

- [Pete] Yeah, me too.

And this was in my top three of the year as well.

I was blown away by "Promising Young Woman."

It's an extraordinary movie.

It's also highly entertaining and that helps it too.

It's old-fashioned in the sense that it's a, it's a real, you know [Pete]riveting kind of story to watch with Carey Mulligan play this a young 30 something woman's giving up her career basically was still traumatized by an incident in high school that happened to her best friend.

And she is now taken all these years later a sense of revenge in unexpected ways against men involved and women too.

It's very interesting.

It comes from a first time feature filmmaker Emerald Funnell, who you may know she plays Camila Parker Bowles on the current season of "The Crown."

She's an actress, but she's always wanted to tell stories.

She said, when she was seven years old she told her parents I want to write stories about murders and moved to America.

(all laughing) - [Wayne] She came to the right place for murder.

- [Pete] Her sure did.Didn't she?

I talked to her a couple of days ago and I asked her that and she said, that's absolutely true.

And I said, well, you've done it.

And, but you wanted to say something that you couldn't quite tell what it was gonna be.

She said in this scene you think I'm doing a romantic comedy in this scene.

You think I'm doing a different kind of movie.

And she said, it's all got to come together.

And, you know, with all the twists and turns but it also speaks to these times, no question the me too era she's made something that again has real gravitas and resonance but it's also hugely entertaining, great performance by Carrie Mulligan there and beautifully cast down the line.

I think that movie has a shot at it.

Just won the Writer's Guild Award for screenplay over "Trial of Chicago 7."

And that's important to see how these guilds vote because they are crossovers with Academy voters.

They're all in the industry.

So we'll see that's a movie that could build but I really am impressed with "Promising Young Woman."

- Tell us about "Minari."

- [Pete] Another movie I'm really impressed.

That was number four on my list.

[Pete] That is just a true American story kind of reminiscent of classics, like grapes of wrath.

It's about the American dream, but as seen through these immigrants here and, and, you know actually they're Korean Americans, they're moving from California to Arkansas because the dream [Pete] of the father they're played by Steven Yeun who's nominated for best actor is to have his own farm and [Pete] and see if he can do that against all odds and everything they're up against.

And it's a true family story.

And, and, and you really do identify with this family.

It's like, you don't have to be Korean or Korean American or anything to specifically identify.

They seem universal in a lot of ways.

And it's one of those quiet films from Lee, Isaac Chung.

[Pete] Who's a Korean American taking a lot from his own life and bringing it to the screen.

It was at Sundance well over a year ago and it won all these awards and it seemed to be an audience favorite.

This was one to look out for too just on the basis of how the Academy votes for best picture.

It's a weighted voting system where you put your favorite your second favorite, your third favorite.

Sometimes it's more important to be number two, you know and that can add up to, to a win, as we've seen in the past with movies like "Moonlight" and "Greenbook" and others that are real audience, favorite kinds of movies.

And I think this one is too beautifully acted too across the line by them.

And so, and it follows Parasite which was a Korean movie, that won what became the first foreign language film to ever win best picture.

And so it's interesting that we have this movie the next year or two which could capitalize on that.

What happened there last year?

- [Jim] The last film on our list is "Mank" from Netflix which is for at least, for me perhaps as entertaining a film as is, as is in this list.

Tell us a little bit about that movie.

- [Pete] Well, I love black and white movies, first of all and this is a beautiful black and white movie from a great Director, David Fincher who has been snake bit when it comes to Oscars he's been nominated many times.

I think he should have won with the social network, you know, has had a "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button", many others great movies that weren't even nominated like Fight Club and Seven and different genres.

And here he's done a really masterful movie about the golden age of Hollywood as it were [Pete] but really dissecting the making of what many people still consider to be the greatest film ever made.

Certainly one of the most influential Orson Welles, "Citizen Kane" but it's coming from the point of view of the screenwriter which ironically was the only Oscar "Citizen Kane" won out of nine nominations was for screenplay.

And now even more ironically not nominated among 10 nominations for "Mank" is it's screenplay.

(Pete and Jim laughing) Go figure you cannot make this stuff up.

There are, it was written though by David Fincher's father Jack Fincher.

Who died in 2003 and always wanted it to get made.

There are all kinds of stories about how actually the final product represents the script that he wrote or was there help from among others, Eric Roth.

Who's a great Oscar winning screenwriter.

Who's a producer on the film.

So I think maybe the writers were sort of wondering questions about the screenplay, but it certainly when I saw this movie, I said, the one group that's gonna vote for this movie for sure are writers.

And because it really does show the value of writing credit and, and the fight for that.

And, and the whole thing of Hollywood at that time the whole thing with William Randolph Hearst beautifully reproduced here digitally, by the way mostly most of that whole mansion and everything is digitally done because Fincher is a master of digital.

You know, there are directors who love film and want to use film.

He is a guy that's adapted to these times and made a movie that looks like the ultimate film with the great acting to Gary Oldman [Pete] Terrific as Herman Mankiewicz and on down the line Amanda Seyfried also nominated here as Marion Davies as the actress and on and on.

I think it's a beautifully made movie.

It may have gone off the rails a little bit whether it's whole thing about the California governor's race.

It seemed to leave what it was trying to be a little bit there.

So some people were turned off by that aspect of it.

It's made it more of a long shot to actually win here even though it has the most nominations.

- [Jim] You know, so we've got, we could talk to you all day.

We've got about 30 seconds left.

Were there any other films that you thought should have been in this category or at least deserves some consideration in this category?

- Yes.

My number two film of the year, Paul Greengrass a great Director News of the World which is a beautifully made Western Tom Hank.

First time he's ever done a Western first time Paul Greengrass has but that's a movie that also set five years after the civil war really dealt with a divided America with two sides that just didn't seem to come together or believe anything from the other side.

And I talk about a movie with real pertinent for now.

I thought that one had it and also it was beautifully made.

I think that should have been in the the best picture race you could go on.

And on next year it's going to be 10 movies, period.

Not, not like between five and 10, like it is now.

It's gonna be back to 10.

So a movie like that could have gotten in next year.

Oh, well.

- [Jim] Pete, we hope you'll come back and talk to us about next year's but thank you so much for being part of this.

Look at the Academy Awards.

He's Pete Hammond from Deadline and the Academy Awards are April 25th.

You can, if you want to check them out that's all the time we have this week.

But if you wanna know more about story in the public square, you can find us on Facebook and Twitter or visit Pell center.org.

We can always catch up on previous episodes for G Wayne Miller.

I'm Jim Lewis asking you to join us again.

Next time.

For more story in the Public Square.

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