- Anyone who has ever enjoyed watching sports will typically concede that part of the appeal is absolute wonder at the skill, drive, courage, and commitment it takes to perform at the highest levels.

Today's guest embodied all of those attributes as an extreme skier until a traumatic brain injury ended her competitive career.

She's Jamie MoCrazy this week on "Story in the Public Square".

(upbeat music) (upbeat music continues) Hello and welcome to "Story in the Public Square", where storytelling meets public affairs.

I'm Jim Ludes from The Pell Center at Salve Regina University.

- And I'm G. Wayne Miller, also with Salve's Pell Center.

- This week we're joined by Jamie MoCrazy, an extreme skier and motivational speaker who joins us today from Utah.

Jamie, welcome.

- Hi, thank you so much for having me.

I'm excited to have this conversation.

- Well, we're excited to have this conversation with you too, and there's a lot that we wanna talk about, but I wanna start with you and your career and what led you to extreme skiing in the first place.

Let's start with when you were a child.

Were you always athletic, and what drew you to athletics?

- Awesome, you know, I just love talking about myself.

(all laughing) So, that's a good thing with what I do in life.

I have always been very competitive.

Actually, when I was nine years old, I won state championships in ski racing, and the very same year, I won state championships in gymnastics, and I was interviewed by the Connecticut Post, if anyone's from Connecticut.

I was interviewed by the Connecticut Post, and I said in my interview, my dream fantasy was to combine skiing and gymnastics.

At the time, slopestyle and half-pipe skiing didn't exist.

- Wow.

- Slopestyle is when you go down and you're judged on an overall impression, and you have multiple jumps and rails, and half-pipe skiing is when you go through the tube and you do tricks.

Shaun White kind of made that famous as a snowboarder, but it didn't really exist, X Games and stuff like that in skiing, and so that was my sports fantasy.

And then when it came to life and I started competing in slopestyle and half-pipe, my career took off.

I was traveling around the world, I had won junior world championships, I was going to X Games.

I actually became the first woman in the world to do a double flip at X Games.

So, life seemed like it was moving along pretty well when I was a child.

- Well, so you know, anybody who has ever seen any of the events that you're talking about, I watched them and I'm sort of breathless and a little terrified.

When you started doing those kinds of events, what's the adrenaline like?

Are you afraid?

Are you nervous?

Are you anxious?

What's the energy like?

- There is a lot of adrenaline.

Actually, what sums it up is when I was six years old and I was competing in gymnastics, I was super proud of myself because I wasn't nervous at all at one meet.

And then I had the worst performance ever.

And so my coach said, "Jamie, you need to have those nerves and you need to funnel that into excitement.

It can turn into anxiety or excitement, but you need the nerves, and turn it into excitement."

So I've kept that with me throughout my whole life.

So with competing, I had the butterflies, and you know, you have the adrenaline, but you turn that into excitement for it, which is the same thing now with public speaking.

Like when I'm going on a stage in front of 1,000 people, before, I have to slow down my breath, I have butterflies in my stomach, and then I walk on stage and perform.

And if you don't have that adrenaline and those nerves, you're not gonna perform at your highest level.

- So, you were on track for the Olympics after this incredible career already as a young person.

And then came April 11th, 2015.

You were skiing in Whistler, British Columbia, and you had an accident.

Tell us about that.

Tell us what happened.

- I was going up to World Tour finals with my little sister.

It was actually the first time she had made it to compete in World Tour finals in half-pipe.

And this day was the slopestyle day.

And on competition day, my first run, I ended up in fourth place.

And now, you guys don't know me very well, but I'm very competitive, and if you're ambitious and competitive, fourth place does not cut it, right?

So I had to upgrade and get on that podium.

So I changed my off-axis back flip to an off-axis double back flip.

And on landing, I actually landed the trick on my feet, but I caught an edge and I whiplashed my head onto the snow.

My brain started bleeding in eight spots and I hurt my right brainstem.

And my little sister was watching that run, and she heard on the ski patrol radio, "We need all hands on deck and a helicopter on standby."

She skied down and she saw me convulsing, spewing blood, with my eyes rolled back in my head.

- Had you ever worried about an accident like that or thought about an accident like that?

I mean, it's happened to other people as well.

But prior to that moment, was that ever in your mind?

- Not really.

I mean, accidents, yes, I'd torn my ACL a couple of times, but I wasn't really focused on that because I had the belief that if I took the time to go through the steps and go through the training and put in the hours of preparation, it would be okay.

Which is interesting, because I also, after my traumatic brain injury, didn't really have PTSD symptoms that much.

And I think one of the reasons why, because it's very common from people who come back from war.

They have a lot of PTSD symptoms.

But when you're at war, the whole time, you're terrified that you might die.

Versus for me, my day, until a millisecond before I crashed, even when I was falling, I probably was like, "Okay, this isn't done right, but it'll be okay."

So I was happy, and it was a beautiful sunny day, I was happy, I had a lot of friends, I was at World Tour finals, so my mindset was positive going into it.

- So you were in a coma for a period of time.

What happened when you came out of that coma?

That would be of course the beginning of your road to recovery, but talk about that early period and what happened.

- Yes, so I was in a coma for 10 days, and then when I woke up, that means I could open my eyes on command, which means that I had serious amnesia.

Like the movie, "50 First Dates", I had no memory of what was happening in my life for six weeks.

So, during the initial stages of recovery, I have no memory of relearning how to open my eyes, when I was in the wheelchair, when I was hooked up to everything, I don't really have memory of that portion of life.

- Did you have to learn how to talk again, to walk again?

What was involved in going from that point to where you are now?

You're obviously an awesome person, speaking to us from Utah.

- Yes, I had to relearn every basic gross motor skill.

It was like being born again.

When I came out of the coma, I was like a newborn infant, and I could open my eyes, but that was about it.

I couldn't talk.

I actually went through Rosetta Stone in English and I failed the first lesson seven times because it was that hard for me to be able to relearn how to talk.

Another interesting thing, and this is different, the only thing that's different from being a baby in my situation was since I had a feeding tube, I also couldn't swallow things very easily.

So when it went to the stage where I could swallow water on my own, it took me weeks to be able to swallow water again on my own.

- Jamie, you know, so before your accident, you were a world class athlete, and I'm imagining the kind of discipline that that took to maintain that level of performance.

Does that sort of commitment translate then into your recovery?

- I think it does help a bit.

Because I was an athlete and how I was raised, my mom has a master's in psychology, and she used to teach self-esteem to women, she had a federal grant from the government.

And so that's why I was the first woman to do a double flip, was because I was always raised with the belief I could do whatever I wanted to do if I performed at my own personal best, which means for that day, you do everything at your best, which really took on a new meeting in my recovery because my own personal best had changed so dramatically.

But by performing at my own personal best, it allowed me to set attainable goals which helped me reach my growth goals because I had a lot of big growth goals.

I wanted to go back to skiing before I could walk upstairs by myself.

And so I had to keep practicing in the hospital, walking upstairs every day, since that was my attainable goal that I could accomplish to reach those growth goals that I had in my mind.

- So you discovered what you call person-centered care as opposed to patient-centered care.

Obviously you were a patient and you were a person.

What is person-centered care and how is it different from patient-centered care?

- Well, person-centered care is looking at each individual that you work with in the hospital as a person with dreams, wants, visions.

Part of it was my hospital room had pictures all over it, and we really catered to me as an individual versus a patient is really focusing on the statistics and the numbers.

- So some people who survive a traumatic brain injury go on to live with depression.

And that certainly is very understandable.

But you didn't.

What made the difference for you and what message do you have coming from that for other people who might have sustained TBIs?

- Well, one of the big things is almost everyone I've come in contact with has gone through a period of depression from a brain injury, because your emotions are all located in your brain, and so they were damaged by the impact.

And also your life has changed.

I feel like I may rebuilt my identity, Jamie 2.0 has a wonderful life.

(all laughing) But my life did change.

So, recognizing it, and instead of feeling guilty or feeling like you should feel grateful that you're alive, it's okay to feel upset that your life changed and you had this traumatic brain injury.

However, in order not to stay in that depression, I started going to therapy.

- So that brings us to MoCrazy Strong, the organization that you've established.

Tell us a little bit about it.

- So, MoCrazy Strong is a nonprofit.

The name actually was started by my little sister, the one who was at World Tour finals, within the first 24 hours of me going in the hospital.

In the little world of skiing, I was a well-known figure, so she started the hashtag MoCrazyStrong to link together all my supporters and fans on social media so everyone could understand what was going on.

And so it started at that, and then quickly, after my recovery, we started being asked questions about it.

So actually, while I was still in the process of recovery, but I had done the first initial visible stuff, people started asking, "How did Jamie have this recovery?"

And so we started dealing with that and giving out some what we now know as peer-to-peer guidance, educated guidance.

And my mom had studied early childhood brain development and psychology, so she had scientific backing onto some of the things that she did with me and that she recommends with other people to do with their survivors.

And so that started, and so then we became a 501c3.

Actually, just last September, we officially became a 501c3, and we created and produced, and it premiered in February, a documentary called "#MoCrazy Strong", that tells the story and different aspects of the recovery that are replicatable to other individuals.

So it's a real big clocking piece to allow people to discuss brain injury and be open to the fact that with the understanding of neuroplasticity, you can have a recovery if you have the opportunity to build the habits to rewire your brain.

- Yeah, so Jamie, your story is remarkable on so many levels.

When you think back or you look back at that period from April 11th, 2015, when you have your accident, you know, what are the milestones?

How long does the recovery take?

We're sitting here in, you know, May of 2023.

How long were you in the hospital?

How long were you in that recovery phase where you were still learning how to speak again and to move again and to do all of the things that we take for granted?

- Yeah, well, so I was in the hospital for three months, and I left the hospital a little bit early because the hospital understood that my mom was taking care of me 24/7.

So when I left the hospital, I still couldn't be in a room by myself.

I couldn't walk upstairs by myself.

I couldn't go take a shower by myself.

I couldn't do anything a normal 22 year old does by themself.

(chuckles) So that was interesting.

And so then I started outpatient therapy, and I went to outpatient therapy five days a week.

And something that's really interesting is that I received part of a federal grant, the TBI Fund, from the state of Utah.

Every state does not have that fund.

However, Utah does, so it allowed me to do as much therapy as was recommended.

My insurance would not cover the amount that I did.

- So Jamie, let's get into, or let's have you get into a little more depth about mocrazystrong.org.

- So, mocrazystrong.org is a 501c3, and what we do is we raise awareness and education about brain injury recovery.

And so part of our awareness is going to speaking engagements, especially to other nonprofits.

Like, a couple weeks ago, I was speaking at the American Medical Rehabilitation Providers Association Spring Conference.

I was the closing keynote in Washington, D.C., and that's the executive teams of over 600 US hospitals, and talking about what works, what doesn't work from a patient's perspective of brain injury recovery.

We also work specifically with hospitals and help them as consultants to better their family involvement and in brain injury recovery, and so the whole system of brain injury recovery.

And so that's something we do.

And we also do peer-to-peer educated guidance, where we work with traumatic brain injury survivors and family caregivers, and we can guide them.

Like this winter, we were working with a family whose daughter was unresponsive in a coma in a hospital.

And we shared 10 videos under five minutes that we made about family involvement.

And some of the things, like, that you can touch the patient, you can play their music, so like music therapy, what smells you can give them in the hospital, and holding their hands.

And they actually held this daughter's hand, and then that was the first time she was responsive and has recovered and is out of a coma and is moving along in her recovery process.

So that's one of the things that we do, because family caregivers get into this situation with absolutely no training or education on how they can actually benefit the outcome of their survivor that they love.

- It sounds to me, too, like a big part of what you're delivering is hope.

- Yes, it's hope with a backing to it, I'd like to say.

So, one of the big things is the belief process, the understanding, the hope, whatever you wanna call it, to all the different aspects of brain injury recovery.

My older sister was a doctor and she went to Georgetown Medical School, which is a top medical school, 20 years ago, and was taught that after two years, if you're over 26 years of age, the deficits are permanent.

And at the time, that was our understanding and our knowledge, and medicine evolves.

I'm a big advocate of medicine and science, but it does evolve.

And now we know that you can rewire your brain at any age, any stage.

It's not just in the cortical.

It used to be thought it was in the cortical development, which is like babies and child before the brain's fully functioning.

But it's not, you can rewire your brain at any time, which means with an understanding of neuroplasticity, we can have recoveries.

And that whole mindset analog, the narrative surrounding brain injury, needs to change on all different aspects of it, so we can have more individuals have a full recovery.

- So Jamie, I'm sure that many survivors encounter financial difficulties, whether it's through insurance or paying hospital bills or, you know, lost wages and employment.

What would you say to policy makers to change that so that that toll, that impact of a TBI would be lessened?

And just sort of in a general sense, but what would you say to policymakers and legislators?

- In a general sense, it goes back to the narrative.

So, 20 years ago, the politicians figured that if you had a brain injury, they needed to support you with disability insurance for the rest of your life because you would not recover.

And so that was the aspect and the mindset going into it.

Now we know that if there's more upfront care and opportunities, you can have a much better recovery and be able to contribute back to society and not live off of disability for the rest of your life.

And the civilian cost to society is $76.5 billion, which does not need to be so high if there's more federal upfront coverage, so individuals have the opportunities to have the healing to be able to get to the point that they can contribute back to society instead of, like me, for example, I was 22 years old.

If I had never gone through the solid five years of recovery that I did, five years, which is way past what insurance covered, way past what everyone covered, but five good years, if I had not had that opportunity and lived off of disability for the rest of my life, you would be supporting me financially for roughly 60 more years of my life instead of supporting the five years of upfront opportunity to heal.

- That's a powerful statement.

Jamie, you made reference earlier to your goal of getting back on skis.

Are you skiing again?

- I am, yeah.

So, I stepped away from competing.

The first fall and winter, and actually, in the hospital, I was dead set on going back to competing.

But I did realize that I would have to relearn every trick that I had, and when you're learning the tricks, you fall a lot.

That's what happens as an athlete.

And I didn't wanna put all of the support I had received in my recovery at risk.

That was the real thing about it, was I just didn't wanna put it at risk.

So I decided to step away from competing, and that was emotionally hard.

One of the biggest challenges was to be able to dream and have giant goals again and be comfortable pursuing them, because my childhood dream and goal that almost looked like it was gonna come true, of going to the Olympics, did not.

And it didn't come true because I didn't make it, it didn't come true because I was ripped away from that sport.

And so to be able to dream again emotionally was a challenge.

But I went back to skiing, and going back to skiing was so fun.

And it did take like five years for me to really let go of the competitive side.

I always, every year, was like, "Okay, this year I'm gonna do a back flip again," because I love back flips.

But I have never done a back flip again and I'm never going to do a back flip again.

And I do 'em on the trampoline and the water ramps, but I'm not gonna do it on snow, and I'm gonna have some amazing days.

And my husband, he's an actual snowboarder, but loves the mountains so much that we have amazing days together, so that helps.

- That's beautiful.

- And my whole family as well loves skiing.

- Yeah, Jamie, that's great.

You know, before we did this taping, you and I were talking, and I had the perception that I think probably a lot of people have, that traumatic brain injuries are most common in sports.

You know, we think of football, obviously we think of boxing.

In your case, we would think of skiing, but that is not the most common venue or time when you sustain a traumatic brain injury if you look at the statistics.

What is the most common place and activity where they happen?

- I'm glad you brought that up, because the most common is slips and falls in the bathroom.

- Wow.

- And the most media popularized is sports because these public figures can talk about it.

But the most common one statistically are slips and falls in the bathroom, and then the second most common one is car accidents.

And every single person who's listening to this could sustain a brain injury in this way.

It's not just doing, becoming the first woman in the world to do a double flip.

You don't have to be extreme like that.

- Jamie, it sounds like the principle takeaway on this is that if you suffer that kind of injury, get early help and don't just take it for granted that you'll sleep off whatever the injury might be.

- Yes, especially with mild traumatic brain injuries.

I like to use the analogy of, like, if you break your arm, what happens?

You break your arm, you go to the doctor, you get it checked out, you get a cast on it, so you do the rehabilitation process and give it the time to heal, and then you're fine.

You're not gonna have any deficits for the rest of your life, you're gonna be fine.

However, with a brain injury, especially mild brain injuries, because it's invisible, people pretend it didn't happen or they try to push it to the side or they feel guilty that it did happen, so they don't get help.

If you take this example of someone going to work and they slip on the ice and they fall and they hit their head and they kind of black out for a couple seconds and then they get up and then they're okay and they shake it off and they go to work and they do a presentation.

And they forget some of the things that they were supposed to be presenting about, and then their boss is kind of upset with them, and then they behave kind of irrationally to their boss.

And that's a tick mark, and it leads to them getting fired and a whole downward slope, which happens to millions of Americans.

And the whole thing is traced back actually to that brain injury.

But it's not associated that it was because of the brain injury that they became homeless.

Even though there's more and more statistics that are showing that like 87% of those incarcerated have had brain injuries at different points of their life that have led to their irrational behavior, because irrational behavior and depression are two of the most common symptoms of a brain injury.

So if you slipped and you fell and you hit your head before work, if your boss knew about brain injuries, and you told your boss that you slipped and you fell, and your boss said, "Okay, why don't you not present today?

Or let's postpone the presentation, or just take an hour off," or something like that, that would just fix the whole issue right away.

However, there's not enough awareness and knowledge about brain injury that if you told your boss, you might be scared that your boss would be like, "So what, who cares?

Everybody hits their head, no big deal."

But if we took more action at the beginning, then these long-term deficits that do develop would be completely avoided.

- Jamie, you are a tremendous spokesperson on this issue.

Thank you so much for being with us today.

She's Jamie MoCrazy.

That is all the time we have this week.

But if you wanna know more about "Story in the Public Square", you can find us on social media or visit pellcenter.org.

He's Wayne, I'm Jim, asking you to join us again next time for more "Story in the Public Square".

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