(beep) - The human rights campaign estimates that there are 2 million transgender people living in the United States today.

Yet today's guest says the fight for human rights is not yet won as long as transgender Americans lack equal rights under the law.

He's Kylar Broadus, this week on Story in the Public Square.

(lighthearted intro music) - Hello, and welcome to Story in the Public Square, where storytelling meets public affairs.

I'm Jim Ludes from the Pell Center at Salve Regina University - And I'm G. Wayne Miller with the Providence Journal.

- This week, we're joined by Kylar Broadus.

A pioneering advocate for transgender rights and the founder of Trans People of Color Coalition.

Tyler, thank you so much for being with us.

- Thank you, Jim and Wayne.

It's a pleasure.

- So you've been a long time advocate for transgender rights.

What are the issues we're basically talking about here?

- Well, now we're talking about assaults on our transgender youth right now and we're talking about assault on transgender adults.

It's, it's sort of both ways the assaults on transgender adults have been forever, and now since the last administration transgender youth have been used as a wedge issue and now are being attacked in State Houses across the country.

There were over 50 bills introduced across the country to target transgender youth in school systems and regarding transitional related care across the country.

And so this has been a horrible year for transgender youth.

And if I may continue, what that does is people don't understand that advocates like myself have fought to with the American Medical Association, The Indoctrine Association, and the American Psychological Association for these children to have the right to basically have puberty when they're supposed to have puberty which is with other children, and for people that are not educated about transgender people, it it's everywhere now.

We haven't been here since the existence of time with all people, and I know that everybody has met somebody transgender whether they want to, whether they've known it, and whether they want to admit it or not.

And I have to say, and before you ask me the next question, I was fortunate enough to have two parents even back in my day, that understood and just loved their child and did the best thing for their child because I knew who I was the moment I could before I could speak and the moment I could articulate to other people that, no, you definitely are calling me the wrong gender.

- So that is not true though, for all parents.

I'm quite sure that's a correct statement.

Is that a correct statement?

- Wayne, You meaning that they that all parents don't embrace their children?

- [Wayne] Yes, Exactly that.

- Yes exactly.

That's why I said that I was fortunate enough to have two parents that loved their child enough to get that that is not true for most transgender children.

It's becoming more and more understood by parents.

And I have had the pleasure to represent people that totally rejected their children, but learned and did education and came around, and I have represented them in court proceedings to get their child's name and gender marker changed, and put the most resistant parent on the stand to say, I didn't get this.

I didn't understand this, but I saw that my son wasn't my son.

My son was my daughter, but most parents now are understanding that phenomena thanks to platforms because I'm definitely pre-internet and definitely wasn't on although I was followed by local media because when I came out, it was decades ago but now you have Jazz Jennings, you have all these television shows that are not influencing people, but just showing real lives, and that's what happened with me.

And when I came out there were people that had been in their houses for years just because they were transgender and afraid to come out and they were living off of social security.

So why wouldn't we want people that could work to live off of social security disability, just because they were transgender?

It doesn't mean you're disabled, really at all.

It just means not that some people aren't, by the way and happened to be transgender, but it just means that you happen to not fit into the rubric or the social construct that's been created by folks, because way back in grade school, I learned there was only and I can't even remember, there was X, Y, X, X, whatever and that's been proven by science to not be true either anymore.

There are so many configurations of the chromosomes that that doesn't make you one or the other either.

So there has been so much science and technology that's caught up as well to say this is a medical condition, it's not a mental illness, and that these children need the interventions again because that's when their puberty is.

I would have liked to capture my puberty, my parents tried to bolt me out of the house, and I don't mean literally, but try to get me out of the house to go do things, and that's why I literally talk on screen and people see me but I am a loner because I was alone or as a child because I could not live the youth, and one of my biggest joys was to finally do a conference with transgender youth and parents and see the joy these children have because they get to live their real life, and I lived in my head and pretended my parents knew something was going on, but there wasn't the words the terminology, the information, or any of those things like there is now, but you're correct, Wayne, is that a lot of parents don't know it or either deny it and they kicked their children out of their homes and they don't love them, and that's the worst thing you can do.

The suicide rate for transgender children is 70%.

And I asked and asked when I was at that conference individually each child why they would choose because many had records with suicide attempts, why you would choose suicide?

And they said, because we've just had no other recourse even when their parents did love them and support them, and even when they had table and mentors, they could see which is why I've stayed visible for so long because I have actually looked the same and never changed.

I've always looked masculine, but I had no visible mentors, though I thought really that something was wrong with me, and so that's why I've stayed at, to be a mentor.

And my biggest thing and being visible was for you and still is for you.

And I get told so many times thanks for saving my life.

And, that makes me emotional right now, because that's my only purpose in doing the work.

- Well it's, it would have to make you emotional.

Kylar, I'm wondering when we talk about anti-trans bias, it occurs to me that we're talking about two broad categories.

There's the personal assaults and indignities that that might literally be is as grave as physical violence and, murder.

But there's also the, the whole legal structure, that's that particularly seems to be energized now to try to deny the dignity and individual self-worth of lots of trans people whether they are children or adults.

Can we walk through some of those legal assaults that are taking place right now?

You mentioned the, the, the the plethora of proposed legislation across State Houses that seemed to be trying to attack everything from the, the the bathrooms that people use to whether or not you can play high school athletics.

- Yes, I can walk through some of those definitely.

The most egregious right now is in Florida where they have I think they passed the law that there will be genital checks.

Now, I don't know who else gets genital checks to determine who they are, and by the way, genital checks don't determine your biological sex.

Doctors just determined that the brain was a sex organ, and that's when I could keep up daily with everything that went on in the transgender world from medicine and science to everything.

And I did because I was expected and still I'm expected to be an expert on everything that has to do with actually the LGBTQ world and in particular, the trans world.

And so, doctors found out, and I remember talking to a doctor that was her specialty when I was out in LA for an event, and she said, yeah, we don't know everything.

We're just learning and catching up.

And so by looking at genitalia what's that going to tell you it's going to tell you nothing, and that's how doctors sex babies by a 32 second look in the ER or in the, I'm sorry, not the ER, but in the in the birthing room at a hospital when the brain itself is a sex organ.

So this is egregious that now someone will be looking at your child's genitalia and have regular blood checks to determine if they can play sports in Florida.

To the next worst bill, which is in Arkansas that goes all the way into college, and says, that you're banned from playing sports in college because you're trans.

And that goes the farthest, as far as grade level.

They're trying to solve a non problem.

You can probably count on two hands the number of trans youth playing sports and particularly they were targeting trans females claiming that there was an advantage of trans females against and cis-gender or non-trans females.

I think there were two in the whole United States that actually play sports.

There are more trans masculine meaning people that look like me playing sports, and there were maybe five of those people because trans you have a lot of fear about being attacked just as trans adults do, and so they're working through all their other issues as well as dealing with doctors and so forth, and so we're not very forthcoming or trusting other people.

So to be out with a sports team, or coach that doesn't understand us and to not be with our parents who can protect us, is not something we're just going to jump out there and do.

So what has happened is this whole syndrome of we are creating this, to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and here are my theories on that.

One, the last administration used this as a wedge issue even though they didn't want anybody to attack their child that was underage, it was fine to attack other children and what better children to attack than trans youth?

Secondly, it had to do with the whole Olympic issue with Semenya Caster, who is intersex, and there is intersex means that, you're born with mixed and ambiguous genitalia, and therefore they kept checking, assuming that she was doping up to beat people and she was not, and the Olympic committee saw that time and time again, and then thirdly, it's an attack on the current Biden Harris administration, because I had the fortune of working with the Obama administration and VP Biden.

Did I say Obama?

Yeah.

Obama and VP Biden at the time (laughs) and neither of them had a curve on this issue.

They understood who trans people were and are, and president Biden, actually proceeded in announcement, although the Obamas were organizers.

So they had worked with trans people regularly, but he had made a statement at some conference that this was the civil rights movement of trans gender people.

So they knew and going into office that he definitely is on board with protections.

And VP Harris comes from the state of California, which is leading in this country in protections for transgender Americans and has never had a curve about protections for transgender Americans.

So I think it's also a pushback against the federal administration.

That's made it clear that there will be no discrimination against transgender people in America.

So state legislatures have been taken it upon themselves to get this pushed back.

- So why does the mentality behind this terrible bias?

Is it fear?

Is it ignorance?

Is it lack of education?

I mean, you went through the science and you've talked about the professional groups, the experts what is driving this?

I mean, what would cause individuals to, to have this bias which is reflected in laws in certain states, in many states and the violence and the attacks that you mentioned at the beginning of the show, what, what is the mentality?

I don't profess to understand it.

- Wayne, you hit it on the head.

It is fear, it is ignorance and it's lack of education.

I always use an example of my cousin one of my cousins who isn't well read, actually she's got a high school diploma, but because she loves me she can tell you everything about transgender people.

And I'm in, in detail from science to whatever, and she isn't internet savvy either and has no curves.

So it's lack of choosing to get educated on these issues, and then it's fear because I used to do trainings before the internet, and nobody knew I was transgender because just look at me and I look I've always looked exactly like my father, and so I would go out and do trainings and never disclose until the end of the training, and people would say, oh, you're a fine person.

So I like you.

So at the end of the training, I would say, well, guess what, I'm transgender, and they would go, oh, it just doesn't really matter.

And these people and I would do with my classes because I was a professor and I actually had transitioned on this historically black college campus, and historically black colleges college campuses, typically are religious oriented.

So I did it in my employment discrimination class and let everybody journal, and I didn't care if they belong to the KKK.

I let them own who they were and be who they were because they actually everybody thinks I'm a city boy, but I'm a country boy.

So I let them own whoever they were and never criticized them for a moment, and as they went through real time with me and got to know me, they embraced me and that's it.

And that's what I've found in every single training that I've done.

And I've done thousands and thousands of trainings, is that once people get to know you, it's just a non-issue.

But it's the people that, cause I've went on the internet a few minutes before we got on.

And I, the look for the actual equality act, and the first thing that pops up is this group that's against it that says, oh, it'll create these things.

It's just fear-mongering that occurs, and that has happened with people that just don't know or don't want to know.

I'm not a dangerous person.

It's just like saying I'm dangerous because I'm a black man, that I'm going to steal your stuff and do this, that and the other.

It's the same sort of fear-mongering.

And sadly, and I do recognize I have privilege because I look and I've always embodied masculinity and could never use female bathrooms, and I have literally been dragged out of them by the police, and the last time was at the House of Blues in LA.

When I was with my corporate coworkers and they knew I had an "F" on my birth certificate.

So I stood at the doors.

I tried not to drink anything, first of all.

For folks that don't know the house of blues is a, is a nightclub.

So we went and I was like, okay I'm not going to drink anything, including water.

So I'm like sitting there for the first hour or so, and I'm like, no, no water, no nothing, no nothing.

Then I start to drink water, and then I'm like, okay, I got to go to the bathroom.

What do I do?

And you know, LA is a hard city to get around in.

So it's not like you can run to the gas station and go to the restroom, which is sadly at the time what a lot of corporate workers were doing that were trans in their office buildings, because they were denied the right to go to the bathroom in their office buildings, and it was legal to do that way back then.

So I went to the women's room because I was with the group of people that knew I had an "F" on my birth certificate.

And I got dragged out of there naked to the men's room by the police.

In the men's room.

- That is just horrifying.

- For people, and it is horrifying and it's like okay, sure!

Just drag me through this place, naked, to the men's room.

No problem.

And so this happens to me, and imagine what happens to people that, you know we're not hired just for being trans.

And I've watched people build up careers including myself and leave them and we're not hired.

And I go around to law schools and talk to law schools.

I train, I get to, to train other lawyers, law professors but we are typically not hired once we leave our professional job, and that's something I'm gonna eventually write a book about, and, and I have to warn other people that when you choose to lead that professional job you don't have the same option as other people do.

And it amazes me law students will ask, well God you seem so competent, why aren't you teaching over here?

Why aren't you teaching over there?

It's because I'm, I'm not hireable.

- Well Kylar, - That takes it, I know what it takes it a little off course from the children but that's the reality of trans people in this country but it's just not in this country, it's global but it shouldn't be happening in what we call not a third world country.

- Right.

Kyle, are you, you, you mentioned the equality act and we've got about three minutes or so left here.

I wonder you had a hand in, in drafting the equality act.

This is a piece of legislation before Congress.

Can you just give us a broad sense of of what it would actually do to address some of these systemic biases that we've been talking about?

- Well, it would give us a leg up.

So instead of opening the 1964 Civil Rights Act, it would add those same protections for transgender people, and not only transgender people, but people that are LGBTQ.

And so the, we would have the right to protection for employment, so that we would have a right for a protection for credit, and we would have a right to use the restroom and it would prevent this whole bathroom panic issue.

It's like, you know, I've been going to the men's room forever and no man has panicked.

Although I have been almost attacked because I'm well known in the area where I came out at and I almost had to have been attacked, you know there just because I'm going to the bathroom.

I'm just going to the bathroom.

We all have to go to the bathroom.

It would protect us and credit and fair housing, and all of these things I get called on for many states and many places to help represent people that get caught in these positions.

It would prevent people from using their religiosity against us, and I know we only have three minutes left, but I am trained at almost every religious place.

And they, they, and the people that are good folks in those religions, find texts that include trans people.

And it's like all religions, and I really went to a religious undergrad institution, all embrace everybody with love.

So that's the short of what it would do and federal funding, and there's several other things.

And I'm happy to say the house passed it.

I had testified previously for the Employment Discrimination Act, but that was not enough.

It had assured and allowed people to discriminate against us.

So it was time for a new vehicle and that vehicle is the equality act.

We need people to support that, to write their Congress people, particularly their senators because it's passed on to the house and we need the senators to take that up and to take action and protect all Americans.

They are voted for by all Americans, and that includes transgender Americans.

- What are the chances in the Senate?

Do you think?

- [Jim] About 30 seconds.

- Well, you know, in this climate, it's hard to say.

Before, we had the previous Commander in Chief, we thought we had a great chance actually of it passing under a Republican president, because if you look back at a lot of legislation, that's been against discrimination, it's passed under a Republican president.

So, but nobody could have predicted what will happen what would have happened.

What did happen rather.

I'll say that what did happen, and so we didn't get a traditional politician, and as a result of that, things shifted greatly.

So we don't have as many sponsors on that bill, and we don't have the Senate doing what it needs to do.

- We got to leave it there unfortunately, but Kyler Broadus, thank you so much for being with us.

That's all the time we have this week, but if you want to know more about Story in the Public Square, you can find us on Facebook and Twitter or visit pellcenter.org.

For Wayne I'm Jim, asking you to join us again next time, for more Story in the Public Square.

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