[INSPRATIONAL MUSIC STING] - We're now joined by Julie Roginsky, Democratic Strategist and Principal at BARO Strategies, and Jeanette Hoffman, Republican Strategist, President, Marathon Public Affairs.

Good to see you.

- Great to see you guys.

- Both of you.

- Great to see you guys.

- Okay, let's do this.

Julie, the most significant - - Yeah.

- lesson taken from the November 7th legislative election, you said the Republicans would've won if they focused on affordability, taxes, economic issues, but they didn't, is that it?

- Well, also, they need to figure out how to do vote by mail, but, look, (Jeanette and Steve laughing) this was theirs for the taking.

Look, for the taking, and the thing is, Democrats can talk about a whole host of issues, as long as they talk about affordability a little bit.

Republicans have to, they must focus on affordability every single cycle in the last, I mean, in my memory.

Democrats have lost because Republicans have laser-focused on affordability, and for some reason, Republicans decided not to do that this time, they went off on a whole tangent about parental rights, and other social issues.

That never works for Republicans in New Jersey, and so that's why they lost.

- Jeanette, why did your team lose seats?

- Well, I think we were a little bit overconfident going into the 2023 election, because we did so well in 2021.

We picked up seven seats and we lost them.

(Jeanette laughing) We know about that.

But, you know, we Republicans do so well on taxes and affordability and the economy, it was almost like, "Yeah, we got that," and we started talking about parental rights, because, you know, who doesn't care about parental rights?

That should have been a secondary issue, right, because not everybody who votes in a low turnout year is a parent, seniors vote.

They don't necessarily care about that, it's important, but also Republicans have to get it down, vote by mail, early voting.

Democrats have done a great job in low turnout elections of getting Democrats who vote in presidential years and gubernatorial years to also vote in off-years, by just doing the mail-in ballots, doing the vote by mail.

Republicans haven't gotten that down, and if they don't get it down, they're gonna lose every low turnout election, so we gotta get that down.

- Julie, talk about the issue of abortion, how it played out?

We had so many Republican legislators on, and John DiMaio, State Assemblyman, Head of the Minority Party in the lower house, and he said, "Steve, why are you even asking me that?

It's a non-issue.

We didn't have the votes for it anyway," but then he said, "I said, but if you won the majority in both houses, you would you want to change the law in New Jersey so that women could not have an abortion in the ninth month?

He said, "Yeah, of course, we don't have the votes."

Meaning, was abortion an issue?

And if so, how did it play out in the election?

- Well, I'll tell you where it really was an issue, down in district 3, which was probably the, not probably, definitely the biggest Republican... - Southern part of the state.

- Southern part of the state, Ed Durr, state senator who beat Steve Sweeney two years ago.

That election was largely about abortion.

- Ed Durr, the so-called trucker who beat Sweeney, lost his seat to John Burzichelli in the Senate.

Why, like without getting too inside, how's that related to abortion?

- Well, because that race was all about abortion, because Democrats made that race all about abortion.

The day that Ed Durr said on Facebook, well before he got elected, that women, you know, "They don't want an abortion, they should keep their legs closed."

You should have seen the reaction in focus groups, even among Republican men, when Ed Durr, when that quote was read.

Ed Durr liked a post where he said, you know, "Women, if they get an abortion, should be spayed or neutered like dogs, right?"

That becomes about abortion and the problem is that not only does that become about abortion, but it tags other Republicans with that moniker, because none of them came out, I mean, for the large part, none of them came out against him.

I get there's this whole brotherhood in the state senate.

You can't go after fellow senators, but they should have.

They should have.

And by not doing that, they really allowed Democrats to paint, not just Ed Durr, but the rest of them with the Ed Durr brush.

- Why not just say, "Listen, we don't agree with him on that, we thought he was wrong."

Like, where's the brother, sister?

What's that all about?

Why not just say, "This is where I think?"

- I don't know, Steve, it was unfortunate.

I'm a woman, I'm a Republican.

I can't support that, I can't get behind that.

You know, but he basically said, "Women have a choice.

They can keep their legs closed."

It was disgusting.

He was primaried.

Unfortunately, the woman who primaried him lost in the Republican primary.

This was a seat that Joe Biden lost by 16 points.

It should have been Republican seat.

I mean, it's really unfortunate that Republicans couldn't get their act together in district 3.

And this was basically a preventable loss by Republicans in that seat.

- From your perspective, Julie, when I asked the question of every Republican legislator member of Congress, "Was the 2020 election won legitimately by Joe Biden?"

I get different answers.

70 to 80% of Republicans argue that the election was stolen.

Does that have anything to do with every election moving forward in terms of election integrity, democracy in danger, you'll see the graphic up with the...

Larger question is, how much of that a problem is that for Republicans who just don't say, "Yeah, we trust the election."

- It's a problem for all of us.

Because what it does is it allows authoritarianism to be on the rise.

Look at the stuff that's been coming out of the former president's mouth over the last month or so.

I mean, more and more fascistic kind of, I mean, literally, fascistic kind of rhetoric, very reminiscent of what Mussolini and Hitler said.

I mean, his spokesman said, "Anybody who accuses him of being a fascist will be ground into the ground like vermin," I mean... - That was language used by Hitler.

- Yeah, I mean, this is like straight out of "Mein Kampf."

This is insane.

And so I say that because this is a problem for all of us.

I don't care if you're a Republican or a Democrat, if you believe in democracy and you believe in the rule of law, this kind of rhetoric is unhelpful.

And the fact that there is a large swath, and this is not Jeanette, so please, I'm not painting everybody with this, but there's a large swath of the Republican party that not only endorses this, but despite the fact that they know better, they actually won't say a word against it.

And by allowing it to proliferate, by allowing Donald Trump to become the nominee, which I suspect, unless something major happens, he will be.

By lining up behind him, they're effectively endorsing this kind of rhetoric and the end to democracy.

That's a problem not just for Republicans, it's a problem for the country.

It's a problem for the world.

And, it's a tragedy actually.

- Jeanette, where is the place for moderate Republicans who don't buy into any of this crap, this garbage, excuse me, we're on public television.

I shouldn't have said that, go ahead.

(Jeanette laughing) - Well, I think there's a place for moderate Republicans, especially in New Jersey.

Listen, I always say, New Jersey's not a red state, it's not a blue state, it's a purple state.

We like our Republicans moderate, we don't like extremists, we don't like extremist Democrats either.

So, we talk about what's gonna happen in 2025, who's gonna be the next governor?

I think there is a place for moderate Republicans.

Unfortunately, we do have this whole thing called a primary.

And it's hard for moderate Republicans to win a primary for the exact reason that Julie talked about, because there was this whole party that's beholden to the Trump, to the extremists, to people who are election deniers.

So it's very hard for someone like Jack Ciattarelli or Jon Bramnick to run in a primary and say that, you know, "The 2020 election was not stolen.

It was legitimate, and Joe Biden won."

So it's gonna be a very difficult road in the next couple of years, I'm afraid.

- And for the Democrats, Julie, Joe Biden, 86 on the back end of a second term, if he wins, vast majority of Democrats and those in the nation, say "Uh-uh, can't do the job."

Is this the best the Democrats can do?

- Listen, I am maybe in the minority of Democrats.

I think Joe Biden's been the most successful first-term president that we've had, at least in my lifetime.

I mean, look at all... - Well, what about a second term, cognitively and otherwise?

- If he could keep it up, I'm all for it.

The problem is - If... - you have a Republican running against him who thinks Barack Obama's in the White House right now.

I would put up anybody's mental health against Donald Trump's.

So, I'd love to have that debate.

- Well, the problem is - - Jeanette.

- 70, 71% of Americans in battleground states, according to the New York Times/Siena poll, think Joe Biden doesn't have the cognitive abilities and he's too old, and it's gonna be a problem for Joe Biden running for the next term.

So, you know, listen, as a Republican, I would like to see Joe Biden run.

I, you know... - How about for the nation, Jeanette?

How about for the nation?

- Yeah, I think it's a problem.

I don't, you know, I don't like Bidenomics.

I don't think the economy's great.

I think inflation's too high.

I think mortgage rates are too high.

I don't like what I'm seeing in the stock market right now.

I'd like to see an alternative to Joe Biden.

I'd like to see an alternative to Donald Trump.

I think Nikki Haley would be a great candidate for president.

Her poll numbers are nowhere near what Donald Trump's are in the Republican primary right now.

That being said, I think it's a long road now until the, you know, the presidential election.

So I'm a little bit optimistic, but it's a long road ahead.

- I will just say this.

Record unemployment... - Two seconds, go ahead.

- Record low unemployment and there's no growth in inflation in the last month.

So I think the economy is actually doing really well.

Problem is, problem is that Democrats have a messaging problem, as I've said all along, and they need to get a handle on it and be able to communicate better about the accomplishments of this administration.

To Jeanette, to Julie, I wanna thank you for joining us.

We appreciate it.

- Thanks, Steve.

- Good stuff, stay with us, we'll be right back.

- [Narrator] State of Affairs with Steve Adubato Is a production of the Caucus Educational Corporation.

Funding has been provided by RWJBarnabas Health.

Rowan University.

The Turrell Fund, supporting Reimagine Childcare.

Horizon Blue Cross Blue Shield of New Jersey.

Johnson & Johnson.

IBEW Local 102.

PSEG Foundation.

Newark Board of Education.

Veolia, And by these public spirited organizations, individuals and associations committed to informing New Jersey citizens about the important issues facing the Garden State.

And by Employers Association of New Jersey.

Promotional support provided by NJ.Com.

And by Insider NJ.

- I'’m very grateful that I'’m still here.

- That'’s me and my daughter when we went to celebrate our first anniversary.

- With a new kidney I have strength.

- They gave me a new lease on life.

- I'’m still going everywhere and exploring new places.

- Nobody thought I was going to be here, nobody.

- I look forward to getting older with my wife, that'’s possible now.

- [Narrator] We'’re transforming lives through innovative kidney treatments, living donor programs, and world renowned care at two of New Jersey'’s premiere hospitals.

- They gave me my normal life back.

It'’s a blessing.

- [Narrator] RWJBarnabas Health.

Let'’s be healthy together.