CAN ERASING STUDENT DEBT HELP CLOSE THE WEALTH GAP?

SHOULD NEW YORK MAKE OLDER INMATES FOR EXAMPLE LITTLIBLE FOR PAROLE?

AND THIS IS NOT "THE X-FILES," BUT WE ARE GOING TO TALK ABOUT UFOs.

STAY TUNED.

"IVORY TOWER" IS NEXT.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ GOOD EVENING, WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M DAVID CHANATRY FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

I'M JOINED THIS WEEK BY BOB SPITZER FROM SUNY CORTLAND, LUKE PERRY FROM UTICA COLLEGE, BEN BAUGHMAN FROM CAZENOVIA COLLEGE AND RICK FENNER FROM UTICA COLLEGE.

WHEN WE RAN FOR PRESIDENT, JOE BIDEN SUPPORTED $10,000 PER PERSON OF STUDENT LOAN DEAD THAT DISPROPORTIONATELY AFFECT BLACK STUDENTS.

BUT THIS WEEK WHEN BIDEN OUTLINED PLANS TO NARROW THE WEALTH GAP BETWEEN BLACKS AND WHITE, HE MADE NO MENTION OF THE STUDENT DEBT, NOT $50,000 SOME ADVOCATES WANT WAVED AND NOT THE $10,000 HE SAID HE IS COMFORTABLE WITH.

SO LUKE, SHOULD STUDENT LOANS BE ELIMINATED OR REDUCED?

>> YES, DEFINITELY.

I THINK IT'S UNETHICAL FOR THE GOVERNMENT AND BIG BANKS TO PROFIT OFF INDIVIDUALS WHO CAN'T PAY FOR COLLEGE OUTRIGHT BECAUSE THEY HAVE LOWER INCOMES.

AND BLACK STUDENTS ARE TWICE AS LIKELY TO GRADUATE WITH STUDENT LOAN DEBT AND ON AVERAGE, THEY GRADUATE WITH TWICE AS MUCH STUDENT LOAN DEBT AS WHITE STUDENTS.

BLACK WOMEN, THE CORE OF THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY, ARE THE RACIAL AND ETHNIC GROUP THAT HAS THE LARGEST AMOUNT OF STUDENT LOAN DEBT.

SO I THINK BIDEN IS PROBABLY GOING TO MOVE IN THIS DIRECTION.

I THINK HE IS WAITING FOR LATER IN THE SUMMER BECAUSE CURRENTLY BORROWERS DON'T HAVE TO PAY BACK THEIR MONTHLY PAYMENTS NOW AND THERE IS NO INTEREST ACCRUING.

BUT THAT'S SET TO EXPIRE AS THE COVID RELIEF EXPIRES IN THE FALL.

I THINK THAT'S THE TIMING WHERE WE MIGHT SEE SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

>> HE IS JUST WAITING FOR POLITICAL ADVANTAGE, I SUPPOSE, AT THAT TIME?

>> PRIORITIZING OTHER THINGS AND RIGHT NOW PEOPLE ARE NOT BEING HURT LIKE THEY NORMALLY ARE.

>> I AGREE WITH LUKE THAT WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING HERE, BUT WE ALREADY HAVE A NUMBER OF REPAYMENT PLANS ASSOCIATED WITH STUDENT LOAN DEBT THAT HAVE FORGIVENESS.

THERE ARE FOUR REPAYMENT PLANS WHERE STUDENTS CAN HAVE THEIR STUDENT LOAN PAYMENTS TIED TO THE AMOUNT THAT THEY BORROWED, THEIR INCOME AND FAMILY STATUS AND AFTER A NUMBER OF YEARS OF PAYING IT, IF THEY HAVEN'T PAID BACK ALL OF THEIR LOANS, THEY'RE FORGIVEN.

I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT BIDEN'S PLAN BRINGS TO THE TABLE HERE THAT ISN'T ALREADY OUT THERE.

THE SECOND ISSUE IS BOTH BIDEN'S PLAN AND THE CURRENT FORGIVENESS PLANS DEAL MORE WITH SYMPTOMS AND NOT WITH THE UNDERLYING CAUSES.

BROOKINGS LOOKED AT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BLACK AND WHITE STUDENT LOAN DEBT AND THEY FOUND THREE REASONS BEHIND IT.

HISTORICAL DISCRIMINATION BECAUSE OF LOW PARENTAL WEALTH.

SO BLACK STUDENTS HAVE TO BORROW MORE TO GO TO COLLEGE.

THE SECOND ISSUE THEY FOUND WAS THAT BLACKS ARE STILL BEING FACED WITH DISCRIMINATION IN LABOR MARKETS SO THEY HAVE HIGHER UNEMPLOYMENT RATES AND LOWER WAGES.

AND SO FOR THESE REASONS, EVEN IF WE FORGIVE PART OF THE STUDENT LOAN DEBT, IT'S NOT GETTING TO THE UNDERLYING REASON BEHIND WHY THEY'RE GETTING INTO THIS POSITION IN THE FIRST PLACE.

>> WELL, IT DOES RAISE THE QUESTION TO ME OF WHAT IS THE GOAL OF THIS PUBLIC POLICY IDEA?

WHAT IS THE OBJECTIVE OF HELPING STUDENTS PAY OFF THEIR DEBT?

I MEAN IS IT BECAUSE BANKS ENGAGE IN, SORT OF UNFAIR BEHAVIOR FOR BORROWERS?

IS IT BECAUSE YOU WANT TO PROMOTE EDUCATION?

IS IT BECAUSE OF RACIAL INEQUITY.

STUDENT LOAN DEBT ITSELF IS LARGELY A MIDDLE-CLASS PHENOMENON.

WHO GOES TO COLLEGE, RIGHT?

THERE ARE POORER PEOPLE WHO GO TO COLLEGE, BUT IT IS A PROGRAM, AS ONE OF OUR COLLEAGUES POINTED OUT, THAT WOULD TEND TO BENEFIT THE MIDDLE-CLASS MORE GENERALLY, WHICH MAY NOT BE A BAD THING.

BUT THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT, THE MORE QUESTIONS IT RAISES FOR ME.

I MEAN EDUCATION IS A GOOD THING.

NOT JUST BECAUSE WE ARE ALL IN THE FIELD OF EDUCATION DO I SAY THAT.

AND IT IS ONE WAY THAT YOU CAN ENGAGE IN MOBILITY IN SOCIETY.

IT'S THE ONE WAY YOU CAN IMPROVE YOUR LOT, THE GREATEST LIKELIHOOD OF SUCCESS BY GETTING MORE EDUCATION.

I'M FOR IT FOR ECONOMIC AND A LOT OF OTHER REASONS.

BUT I HAVE WONDERED WHETHER THIS -- WHAT THE REAL GOAL OF THIS PUBLIC POLICY IS.

>> YEAH, AND I WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT THE PRIVATE LOAN COMPONENT OF THIS THAT WE'VE MISSED IN THE FIRST THREE DISCUSSIONS, WHERE THERE ARE NOT THE SAME PROGRAMS THAT THERE ARE FOR THE FEDERAL PROCESS.

AND THE PERCENTAGES ARE HIGH AND THEY DO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF STUDENTS THAT NEED ADDITIONAL FUNDING.

AND THAT STICKS WITH YOU.

THERE ARE NOT PROGRAMS IN PLACE.

YOU CAN'T EVEN WIPE IT WITH BANKRUPTCY.

>> AND SO I MEAN, DOES THE PRESIDENT EVEN HAVE AUTHORITY TO DEAL WITH THOSE PRIVATE LOANS?

I MEAN-- AND DOES HE HAVE THE AUTHORITY-- CAN YOU JUST WIPE OUT THE FEDERAL LOANS?

I'M NOT SURE WHAT THE AUTHORITY IS.

>> THERE HAS BEEN ANALYSIS OF THIS AND THE SECRETARY OF EDUCATION IS LOOKING AT THIS QUESTION BUT THERE SEEMS TO BE A SENSE THAT BIDEN CAN INFLUENCE IT THROUGH UNILATERAL EXECUTIVE ORDERS.

>> WE WIPED OUT THE LOANS FOR STUDENTS THAT HAD GO TO CORINTHIAN AND I.T.T.

>> YOU MEAN THE FOR-PROFIT SCHOOLS.

>> YEAH AND AGAIN THEY'VE WAIVED THE PAYMENTS, AS LUKE SAID FOR STUDENT LOANS RIGHT NOW.

SO I DO THINK THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION HAS THE ABILITY TO DO THIS.

BUT AGAIN, MY QUESTION IS WHY NOT TRY TO SEE WHY AREN'T THE CURRENT PROGRAMS WORKING?

I THINK PART OF THE REASON IS MANY STUDENTS DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'RE WIDELY AVAILABLE.

THE WHOLE STUDENT LOAN WEBSITE AND EVERYTHING SURROUNDING STUDENT LOANS IS VERY COMPLICATED AND THERE IS NO ADVOCATE FOR THE STUDENTS.

THE BANKS CERTAINLY AREN'T ADVOCATES FOR THEM.

AND SO BEFORE WE GO ON AND GO DOWN TO PATH OF DECREASING STUDENT LOAN DEBT FOR EVERYONE, WHY NOT SEE WHY THE PROGRAMS THAT WERE DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY TO HELP THOSE PEOPLE WHO WERE IN LOW PAYING JOBS WITH HIGH LEVELS OF DEBT, WHY HAVEN'T THEY WORKED TO DATE.

>> I CAN SPEAK TO THAT BECAUSE I'M IN THAT SITUATION.

AND THOSE PROGRAMS DON'T WORK BECAUSE THEY GET CHANGED ALL THE TIME.

AND I FEEL LIKE THE PROGRAMS ARE DESIGNED TO HAVE SUCH A HIGH MINIMUM PAYMENT THAT YOU PAY BACK MOST OF YOUR LOAN IN THE 10 YEARS IT TAKES TO GET THE PUBLIC SERVICE LOAN FORGIVENESS UNLESS YOU HAVE OVER 100,000 OR 150,000.

>> THERE ARE FOUR OTHER PLANS THAT START OUT AT ZERO DOLLARS A MONTH.

IN FACT, IF YOU HAVE ABOUT $60,000 OF DEBT AND YOU HAVE A SPOUSE AND ONE CHILD AND YOU ARE EARNING ABOUT $30,000, YOU HAVE ALL OF YOUR DEBT WIPED OUT.

>> NOT THE PRIVATE.

>> YOU ARE RIGHT.

NOT THE PRIVATE.

>> 95% OF STUDENT LOAN DEBT IS FEDERAL DEBT THOUGH.

>> IF THE LOAN IS WIPED OUT, WHAT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALREADY PAID THEIRS?

INGS IT FAIR TO THEM?

THEY'VE PAID THEIRS AND HAVE GONE THROUGH IT... >> BOB BROUGHT UP A REALLY GOOD POINT.

THE GOVERNMENT IS TRYING TO HELP PAY OFF THEIR DEBT.

IT'S REALLY NOT ABOUT GIVING OUT FREE MONEY.

IT NEEDS AN OVERHAUL.

IT NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT THE PRIVATE.

THERE ARE GOOD PROGRAMS FOR THE FEDERAL STUDENT LOANS BUT THOSE ARE TWO SEPARATE THINGS.

AND WHEN YOU CALL IN, LET'S SAY YOU'VE GOT PRIVATE AND PUBLIC OR THE FEDERAL COMPONENT TO IT, HAVE YOU TO TALK TO TWO SEPARATE DEPARTMENTS THAT SUPPOSEDLY DON'T TALK TO EACH OTHER BUT ARE OWNED BY THE SAME COMPANY.

>> I'M SENSITIVE TO THOSE ASKER ARGUMENTS AND I THINK THAT'S-- BUT EVERYBODY AGREES THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN.

IT IS BEING FIXED AND YOU HAVE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CAUGHT AT THE TAIL END OF THE SYSTEM WITH THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS OF DEBT.

I THINK THEY NEED HELP.

>> ALBANY, THE STATE LEGISLATURE IS BUSY TRYING TO WRAP THINGS UP BEFORE THE SESSION ENDS NEXT WEEK.

A BILL TO MAKE ANY STATE INMATE ELIGIBLE FOR A PAROLE HEARING IF THEY'RE AT LEAST 55 YEARS OLD AND HAVE SERVED A MINIMUM OF 15 CONSECUTIVE YEARS OF THEIR SENTENCE.

THE BILL IS BEING PUSHED BY DEMOCRATS AS PART OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE REFORM.

NEW YORK DISTRICT ATTORNEYS ARE OPPOSED AND REPUBLICANS HAVE THEIR OWN COUNTERPROPOSAL FOR REFORM.

SO, BEN, IS ELDER PAROLE A GOOD IDEA?

>> NO, NOT IN ITS CURRENT FASHION.

CURRENTLY THE PROGRAM THAT'S BEING PROPOSED, SON OF SAM, WOULD BE ELIGIBLE TO GET OUT.

IF YOU DON'T REMEMBER HIM, SERIAL KILLER.

WE ALSO HAVE THE LONG ISLAND KILLER THAT IS RESPONSIBLE FOR KILLING NINE WOMEN OVER A PERIOD OF TIME THAT WOULD BE ELIGIBLE AS WELL.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THEY'RE NOT LOOKING AT VIOLENT OFFENDERS FIRST AS NON-VIOLENT OFFENDERS AND OUR VIOLENT OFFENDERS AT A RATE OF 64% ARE MORE LIKELY TO COMMIT ADDITIONAL CRIME AND BE ARRESTED.

SO YOU HAVE THAT ISSUE.

EVEN AT AGE 50 OR OLDER, YOU HAVE 37% THAT WERE REARRESTED AS SOON AS THEY WERE RELEASED WITHIN 18 MONTHS.

SO... >> 37% OF VIOLENT OFFENDERS?

>> YES.

IN YOUR VIOLENT OFFENDERS.

THE SFACT FACT THAT THEY'RE NOT ADDRESSING THE VIOLENT OFFENDERS VERSUS NON-VIOLENT OFFENDERS OR SEX OFFENDERS OR THIS RANGE, THE CONTINUUM TYPES OF CRIME IS PROBLEMATIC AT ITS SURFACE.

THE ONE THING THAT WE LEAD IN AMERICA HERE, WE HAVE THE MOST INCARCERATED PEOPLE WHICH WE SHOULD NOT BE PROUD OF THAT.

THERE IS ROOM FOR ON REFORM BUT A BLANKET EASY BUTTON TO LET PEOPLE OUT DUE TO THEIR AGE AND THE FACT THEY'VE JUMPED THROUGH SOME HOOPS IN PRISON IS NOT THE WAY FORWARD.

>> BOB, I THOUGHT THE PROPOSAL WAS NOT AN EASY OUT BUT WOULD AT LEAST GUARANTEE PEOPLE WHO HAVE SENTENCES OF LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE TO GET A PAROLE HEARING.

NOW I UNDERSTAND THE VIOLENT OFFENDERS THING BUT WE JUST WERE TALKING ABOUT RACIAL DISPARITIES IN STUDENT LOANS AND WE KNOW THERE ARE RACIAL DISPARITIES IN THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM.

SO PERHAPS THERE ARE A NUMBER, A HIGHER PERCENTAGE OF THESE INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE THAT ARE AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

AND PERHAPS THEY COMMITTED THE SAME CRIME THAT A WHITE PERSON DID BUT THAT WHITE PERSON WAS GIVEN A LESSER SENTENCE.

SO I THINK AT LEAST OPENING IT UP AND HAVING A FULL PAROLE HEARING FOR ALL OF THESE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, I REMEMBER IN CALIFORNIA EVERY SO OFTEN CHARLES MANNSON HAD HIS PAROLE HEARING.

HE WAS NEVER LET OUT, OF COURSE BUT HE AT LEAST HAD THAT HEARING.

I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE COST OF DOING THAT IN NEW YORK FOR OLDER PRISONERS WOULD BE.

>> WELL, I MEAN ONE KEY PART OF THE PROPOSAL IS THAT IT IS DISCRETIONARY; THAT IS TO SAY THAT AN INMATE WHO IS OVER 55 AND SERVED AT LEAST 15 YEARS WOULD BE UP FOR A PAROLE HEARING DOESN'T MEAN OBVIOUSLY HE WOULD GET PAROLE AND YOU WOULDN'T EXPECT MARK DAVID CHADMAN, THE GUY WHO KILLED DAVID LENNON TO BE SET FREE OR SON OF SAM, DAVID BERKOWITZ.

AND THOSE ARE THE EXTREME CASES.

ANOTHER FACT TO CONSIDER IS THE RECIDIVISM RATE; THE LIKELIHOOD THAT PEOPLE WILL RECOMMIT CRIMES ONCE THEY'RE LET OUT, ESPECIALLY AT AN OLDER AGE, AND IT'S PRETTY LOW WITH SOME EXCEPTIONS.

I MEAN SEX OFFENDERS TEND TO HAVE A HIGH RECIDIVISM RATE, AS YOU KNOW, BEN, COMPARED TO OTHER CRIMES.

BUT BY THE TIME YOU ARE IN YOUR SIGNATURES OR OLDER, MAYBE IT'S LESS OF AN ISSUE.

MURDERERS TEND TO BE GOOD SIT SENSE AND HAVE A LOWER RECIDIVISM RATE.

WE HAVE LOTS OF PEOPLE IN PRISON WHO WERE PUT INTO PRISON AT A TIME WHEN YOU HAD NO POSSIBILITY OF PAROLE, WHEN HAD YOU LIFE WITHOUT PAROLE, WHEN YOU HAD HIGH LENGTH ESSENTIAL SENTENCES FOR OFFENSES THAT DIDN'T NECESSARILY WARRANT THE SENTENCES.

IT SEEMS TO ME AS A GROUP, PEOPLE IN THEIR 60s AND OLDER ARE A PRETTY GOOD RISK AS LONG AS YOU CAN ADJUDICATE THE CASES ON A FACTUAL BASIS.

>> I DON'T AGREE WITH THAT BECAUSE EVEN OVER THE AGE OF 40, THEY'RE TWO TIMES MORE LIKELY, VIOLENT OFFENDERS ARE TWO TIMES MORE LIKELY TO COMMIT ANOTHER CRIME AND BE ARRESTED, NOT JUST DO IT, BUT GET CAUGHT, THAN YOUR NON-VIOLENT OFFENDERS.

YOU HAVE THAT AND THEY'RE DOING IT WITHIN 18 MONTHS RATHER THAN 24 MONTHS.

AND THEY'RE DOING MORE SERIOUS VIOLENT CRIMES SO IT HAS TO BE LOOKED AT.

IT IS NOT... >> WHY NOT LET THEM HAVE A PAROLE HEARING, DEPENDING ON, YOU KNOW, THERE MAY BE FACTORS, AS THERE WOULD BE FOR SOMEBODY WHO BECOMES ELIGIBLE FOR OTHER REASONS.

WHY NOT HAVE THAT CONSIDERATION AND THAT DISCUSSION AND IF THE PAROLE BOARD SAYS, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T MAKE IT, YOU DON'T MAKE IT.

>> WELL, TWO REASONS.

THE BEST PREDICTOR OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR.

THAT'S ONE.

AND THE OTHER IS, AS WE HAVE SEEN WITH THE U.S.

SENTENCING COMMISSION OF OVER 25,000 INDIVIDUALS THAT THEY TRACKED IN 2005, THAT THEY'RE LIKELY TO COMMIT QUICKLY SERIOUS VIOLENT CRIMES.

SO IT'S A PROBLEM.

>> I THINK THIS IS NOT A NOVEL IDEA.

THERE ARE 17 STATES THAT HAVE SOME FORM OF ELDER PAROLE.

I HEAR THE SPIRIT OF WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND THAT CONCERN AND I'M SUPPORTIVE OF THIS POLICY OVERALL ALTHOUGH I WOULD LIKE TO SEE CARVEOUTS FOR CERTAIN CRIMES WHERE PERHAPS THE RULES WOULD BE DIFFERENT, THE BAR WOULD BE HIGHER.

I WOULD ALSO LIKE TO SEE THE AGE A LITTLE HIGHER.

MOST OF THE 17 STATES THAT HAVE ELDER PAROLE HAVE THE AGE SET AT 65.

THAT SEEMS TO BE THE STANDARD AND THEY TYPICALLY HAVE A HIGHER NUMBER OF YEARS BEFORE PEOPLE ARE ELIGIBLE, SOMETHING LIKE 20, 25.

I THINK THAT WOULD STRENGTHEN THE POLICY AND ADDRESS SOME OF THE CONCERNS YOU RAISED.

>> AND I SUPPOSE THERE IS ALSO THE ISSUE, WE WERE TALKING ABOUT VIOLENT OFFENDERS, OF SIMPLY ACCOUNTABILITY.

YOU KNOW, IF YOU COMMIT THE CRIME, AS THEY SAY, YOU SHOULD DO THE TIME?

>> RIGHT.

FOR MANY OF THESE CRIMES, YOU KNOW, THE VICTIMS AREN'T CERTAINLY GETTING SECOND CHANCES.

SO TO SAY THAT THE PERPETRATOR GETS A SECOND CHANCE WHEN, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, TO BE A GOOD TWO HANDED ECONOMIST HERE, TO SAY THAT SOMEONE WHO IS 65 AND MURDERED SOMEONE, THEY'RE UNLIKELY TO COMMIT ANOTHER MURDER AND SO, YOU KNOW, THEY SHOULD GET A SECOND CHANCE, YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT THE PUNISHMENT PART AND WHAT THE FAMILY OF THE VICTIM IS GOING TO THINK WHEN THEY SEE THIS PERSON RELEASED.

>> THAT GETS TO THE QUESTION OF WHY YOU HAVE INCARCERATION TO BEGIN WITH.

DO YOU DO IT TO PUNISH PEOPLE, TO REHABILITATE, TO KEEP THEM THERE UNTIL THEY'RE NO LONGER A DANGER TO SOCIETY?

I THINK THOSE CONDITIONS NEED TO HAVE THE HIGHEST PRIORITY.

>> AND ALONG WITH CONSIDERATIONS ABOUT MENTAL HEALTH AND ADDICTION THAT ARE FACTORS THAT CORRELATE WITH COMMITTING CRIMES TO BEGIN WITH AS WELL.

>> AND THEN ALSO WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WITH THESE PEOPLE AFTER YOU RELEASE THEM?

IF THEY HAVE BEEN IN PRISON FOR 30 YEARS OR WHATEVER, YOU LET THEM OUT, WHO IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF THEM THEN?

ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE JOBS?

WHO IS GOING TO BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT?

IT'S NOT SIMPLY OPENING THE DOOR AND LETTING THEM WALK OUT.

THERE HAS TO BE A PLAN FOR... >> THAT DOES RAISE A QUESTION ABOUT COST INVOLVED IN THE PROGRAM ITSELF.

I KNOW COST IS ONE OF THE FACTORS THAT THE PROPONENTS HAVE ARGUED, THEY'LL SAVE MONEY ON INCARCERATION COSTS BUT THERE IS GOING TO BE A COST ON THE OTHER END.

>> AND THERE IS GOING TO BE A COST OF THE INVESTIGATING THE SERIOUS CRIME THAT THEY COMMITTED.

YOU LET A SERIAL KILLER OUT, THEY'RE GOING TO START KILLING AGAIN.

AND THAT COMES WITH A HIGH COST OF INVESTIGATION, DNA, FORENSICS AND ALL THE COMPONENTS THAT HAVE TO GO IN MOTION TO CATCH THE OFFENDER, CONVICT THE OFFENDER AGAIN.

>> WHAT PERCENTAGE OF PEOPLE BEHIND BARS IS SERIAL KILLERS.

>> VERY SMALL.

BUT YOUR VIOLENT OFFENDERS THOUGH, THAT'S NOT SMALL.

AND NOT-- YOUR AGE AND ALONG WITH THE TYPE OF CRIME THAT THEY COMMITTED, IS GOING TO CONTINUE.

>> OKAY.

NOW ON TO SOMETHING I NEVER THOUGHT WE WOULD BE TALKING ABOUT ON "IVORY TOWER."

DESPITE ALL THE JOKES ABOUT ALIEN ABDUCTION AND LITTLE GREEN MEN, THE PENTAGON HAS BEEN COMPILING INFORMATION ON UNIDENTIFIED AREAIAL PHENOMENON FOR YEARS AND REQUIRED BY LAW TO ISSUE A REPORT THAT SHOULD COME OUT THIS MONTH.

THIS UFO STORY HAS GOTTEN A LOT OF ATTENTION SINCE THE NAVY CONFIRMED THREE VIDEOS CIRCULATING ONLINE WERE IN FACT CAPTURED BY INFRARED CAMERAS ON NAVY JETS.

WE HAVE ALL SORTS OF HINTS ABOUT MICROBIAL LIFE THAT COULD EXIST ELSEWHERE IN THE UNIVERSE, BUT ALIEN SPACE CRAFT, BOB?

ALIEN INTELLIGENCE?

THAT'S ANOTHER MATTER ENTIRELY.

>> FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE GOVERNMENT REPORT SHOULD COME OUT AND WE SHOULD SEE IT.

BUT WOULD I MAKE TWO POINTS AND I TAKE MY GUIDE THE LATEST ASTRONOMER CARL SAYING SAGAN FROM CORNELL UNIVERSITY, I THINK IT IS HIGHLY, HIGHLY LIKELY THERE IS INTELLIGENT LIFE ON OTHER WORLDS IF YOU THINK ABOUT HOW VAST OUR UNIVERSE IS.

SECOND POINT, IS IT LIKELY WE HAVE BEEN VISITED BY LITTLE GREEN MEN AND THE REPORTS, I THINK THE LIKELIHOOD OF THAT IS VANISHINGLY SMALL.

YOU CAN'T SAY IT'S ZERO BUT THE OVERWHELMING NUMBER OF REPORTS THAT WE HAVE AND FILM FOOTAGE AND PICTURES, DOES NOT WITH STAND ANALYSIS VERY WELL AND IT'S NO COINCIDENCE THAT REPORTS OF UFOS EXPLODED BEGINNING IN 1947.

BASICALLY IT WAS KEY TO THE COLD WAR ANTI-SOVIET HYSTERIA, AND THE DEVELOPMENT AND EXPLOSION OF SCIENCE FICTION MOVIES AND NOVELS AND OTHER-- THAT SORT OF WHOLE GENRE.

AND I THINK IT PUT IT IN THE PUBLIC MIND AND PEOPLE SAW THINGS THAT THEY DIDN'T UNDERSTAND, WHICH IS CERTAINLY, YOU KNOW, UNDERSTANDABLE.

BUT EVEN IF THE CASE OF PILOT TESTIMONY AND FILMS, I'VE SEEN SOME OF THE FILMS, YOU KNOW, ON THE INTERSTATE, AND I SHRUG AND SAY I DON'T REALLY SEE IT.

AND WHEN YOU HEAR THE PILOTS, THE AIR FORCE PILOTS REPORTING ON WHAT THEY'RE SEEING.

IT'S STUFF, LIKE WELL, THAT WENT REALLY FAST.

BOY, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT IS.

THAT SEEMS REALLY FAR AWAY OR REALLY CLOSE.

THERE IS NOTHING EMPIRICAL ABOUT THE OBSERVATIONS.

THEY'RE TRAINED PILOTS WHICH IS AN IMPORTANT CONSIDERATION BUT YOU ARE NOT TRAINED AT IDENTIFYING UFOs AND I JUST DON'T THINK THE EVIDENCE IS THERE AND FINAL POINT, THERE WERE NO AND I REJECT THE IDEA THAT THERE WERE ANCIENT SPACE ALIENS, A COTTAGE INDUSTRY ON THIS THAT BUILT THE PYRAMIDS OR ANY OF THAT SORT OF STUFF.

>> YOU BRING UP TAYE GOOD POINT, BOB, ABOUT THE EXPLOSION OF THESE SITES TAKING PLACE.

SUMMER OF 1947, ROSS VEL ROSWELL, THE INFAMOUS ONE.

AND WHAT ISN'T EXPLORED VERY OFTEN IS THE END OF WORLD WAR II THAT TOOK PLACE IN 1945 AND OPERATION PAPER CLIP THAT BROUGHT 1600 GERMAN SCIENTISTS AND THERE I FAMILIES OVER TO THE UNITED STATES.

500 OF THOSE BEING PUT IN THE AREA THAT IS KNOWN AS AREA 51, WORKING ON DEVELOPING, WHAT THEY CALLED THE BELL THAT THEY HAD BEEN WORKING ON IN NAZI GERMANY.

>> ANYBODY WANT TO GO OUT ON A LIMB HERE?

>> I THINK THE BIGGER CONCERN, WHERE PERHAPS THE MORE LIKELY EXPLANATION IS WHAT THESE THINGS ARE, COULD BE OUR MILITARY TESTING THINGS OUT.

ALTHOUGH THEY SAID IN THIS REPORT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE HERE CATEGORICALLY DENYING THAT ANY OF THOSE ARE OURS.

LIKE YOU ARE GOING TO TELL US THE TRUTH IF IT WAS.

>> WE SHOULD SAY THAT THE REPORT IS NOT OUT YET, BUT THERE HAVE BEEN SOME LEAKS.

>> THE OTHER THING IS COULD SOME OF THESE THINGS BEEN CHINESE OR RUSSIAN DRONES DEALING WITH HYPERSONIC TECHNOLOGY.

SO IT'S MORE LIKELY THAT THAT'S AN EXPLANATION THAN, THE VISITATION OF ALIENS.

>> I HAVE A LOT MORE TO SAY FROM THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY TO SORT OUT.

YOU TALK TO PEOPLE IN AEROSPACE AND THIS TYPE OF MILITARY WORK, THEY'RE NOT GOING TO SHARE ANYTHING THAT IS AT ALL REMOTELY RELATED TO NATIONAL SECURITY AND JEOPARDIZE OUR POSITION IN THE WORLD.

SO WHATEVER WE GET FROM THIS AS THE PUBLIC IS GOING TO BE VERY LIMITED IN TERMS OF WHAT IS REALLY GOING ON AND THE TYPE OF INVESTIGATIONS THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING.

>> WE CERTAINLY HAVE PLENTY OF SCIENTISTS WHO ARE FOCUSED ON THE GALAXIES AND LOOKING FOR SIGNS OF LIFE AND IT WOULD BE SURPRISING THAT THEY'RE NOT SEEING SOME OF THESE AS WELL.

AND OF COURSE YOU CAN'T, AS SCOTTY ALWAYS SAYS ON STAR TREK, RIGHT?

YOU CAN'T CHANGE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

WE NEED TO MOVE ON TO OUR As AND Fs.

WE'LL START, BOB, WITH YOUR F. >> MY F TO STANFORD LAW SCHOOL FOR HOLDING UP ONE OF ITS LAW STUDENTS DIPLOMA BECAUSE HE SENT OUT A SATIRICAL EMAIL MOCKING THE CONSERVATIVE FEDERALIST SOCIETY AND SENATOR JOSH HAWLEY.

AND THEY WITH HELD HIS DEGREE.

THEY HAVE DECIDED TO LET HIM PROCEED AFTER ALL, BUT IT'S WELL ESTABLISHED LAW THAT SATIRE IS PROTECTED SPEECH AND STANFORD LAW SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MUCH BETTER.

>> AND LUKE, YOUR F, PLEASE.

>> TO SENATORS REED AND MHOFF WHO STALLED LEGISLATION TO BETTER PROSECUTE SEXUAL ASSAULT IN THE MILITARY, EVEN THOUGH 70 SENATORS NOW SUPPORT THIS DECADE OLD BILL.

>> BEN.

>> IT IS ALARMING WHEN OUR LEGISLATORS CHOOSE A COURSE OF ACTION BASED REPORTEDLY ON PERSONAL FAVORS OVER THE SAFETY OF OUR CONGRESS AND THE VERY FABRIC OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

35 REPUBLICANS VOTED AGAINST THE BIPARTISAN COMMISSION TO PERFORM AN ANALYSIS ON THE JANUARY 6 ATTACK ON THE CAPITOL.

THIS INCREDIBLY SHORT SIGHTED DECISION TO CHOOSE A LACK OF TRANSPARENCY IN FEAR OF POSSIBLE POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS, AT THE RISK OF SIMILAR EVENTS OCCURRING AGAIN WITH POTENTIALLY WORSE OUTCOMES IS, AT MINIMUM, NEGLIGENT TO OUR HOMELAND SECURITY.

>> RICK.

>> MY F GOES TO PROFESSIONAL TENNIS.

EARLIER THIS WEEK, NAOMI OSAKA ANNOUNCED SHE WOULD FOREGO THE REQUIRED MOST MATCH INTERVIEWS.

THE FEDERATION OF GRANDSLAMS THEN FINED HER $15,000 AND THREATENED TO DISQUALIFY HER.

SHE SUBSEQUENTLY WITHDREW MUCH SHE CAME OUT WITH A VERY HEART FELT LETTER THAT SAID THAT SHE WAS SUFFERING FROM ANXIETY AND DEPRESSION.

AND THE GRANDSLAM NOW THEY THEY WOULD WORK WITH HER.

BUT FOR NOW, AT LEAST, TENNIS FANS ARE BEING DENIED SEEING ONE OF THE BRIGHTEST, SMARTEST, MOST INTELLIGENT OF THE STARS IN THE FRENCH OPEN DURING THESE TWO WEEKS.

>> THE AS WITH BOB.

>> AN A TO FORMER PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP FOR HIS OPERATION WARP SPEED PROGRAM WHICH RAPIDLY DEVELOPED AND DISSEMINATED VACCINES FOR THE COVID VIRUS.

PRESIDENT TRUMP BEING AS INEPT AS HE COULD, HE DID EVERYTHING HE COULD TO SABOTAGE THE PROGRAM BY SAYING THE COVID-19 WAS UNDER CONTROL, IT WASN'T A BIG DEAL, ET CETERA.

NEVERTHELESS, THE PROGRAM GETS AN A.

>> LUKE.

>> MY A TO JOHN BUTLER HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATOR FROM LOUISIANA WHO GAIF HIS SHOES TO ONE OF THE STUDENTS WHO INADVERTENTLY VIOLATED THE DRESS POLICY AND PROHIBITED FROM GRADUATING FROM GRADUATION.

THE STUDENT WAS ABLE TO WALK BEFORE HIS FAMILY EVEN THOUGH THE SHOES DIDN'T FIT.

>> MY A TO ELIZABETH AVERY, A BUS DRIVER FOR CAZENOVIA SCHOOL DISTRICT.

THROUGHOUT THIS PANDEMIC, SHE HAS GIVEN KIDS TRIENG ITS, SUNGLASSES, TOY CARS, AND EVEN LAMINATED PHOTOS WITH SELFIES WITH MOTIVATIONAL MESSAGES ON THE BACK LIKE WE'LL GET THROUGH THIS TOGETHER.

>> EXCELLENT.

RICK.

>> MY A GOES TO ENGINE NUMBER 1, A SMALL INVESTMENT FIRM THAT ROCKED EXXON THIS WEEK BY GETTING THREE OF ITS CANDIDATES ELECTED TO EXXON BOARD OF DIRECTORS.

USUALLY THEY RUBBER STAMP THE CHOICE OF THE COMPANY BUT THEY SAID EXXON WAS NOT TAKING CLIMATE SCIENCE SERIOUSLY AND PUT FORTH THEIR OWN CAST OF CANDIDATES AND GOT SOME MAJOR INSTITUTIONAL INVESTORS SUCH AS BLACKLOCK TO VOTE AGAINST THE EXXON CANDIDATES.

THIS WAS A BIG WIN FOR SHAREHOLDER ACTIVISM.

>> THAT WAS QUITE A DEVELOPMENT WHEN I FIRST HEARD THAT THEY WERE TRYING THIS.

I FIGURED THERE WAS NO WAY.

BUT THEY PULLED IT OFF.

THANK YOU FOR JOINING US THIS EVENING.

FOR COMMENTS YOU CAN WRITE TO THE ADDRESS ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WATCH THE PROGRAM AGAIN, YOU CAN DO SO ONLINE AT WCNY.ORG.

I'M DAVID CHANATRY.

AND FOR ALL OF US AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.

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