Many of our kids are not okay.

Mental health issues for young people are skyrocketing across the country and are especially high in Escambia County.

We'll delve into why the impact it's having and what solutions are possible.

On this episode of In Studio Student Mental Health.

Mental health issues among young people is an epidemic.

A 2023 nationwide study found that among 14 to 25 year olds, 87% suffer from some mental health problem on a regular basis.

In Escambia County, the problem is especially acute.

Mental health professionals are seeing a 30 to 40% jump in youth seeking services.

We have an outstanding panel of guests to discuss this challenging issue.

In our second segment, we'll hear from public school, an area college experts.

But we start the discussion with Dr. Kelsey Killingsworth, a licensed mental health counselor.

Abraham Sculley, CEO, and founder of Speaks to Inspire, a young adult mental health consulting agency, and Lamb Ngafeeson and a student at the University of West Florida.

So thank you all so much for taking time out to join us here today.

So we're here talking about this for a reason.

It's a big problem right now, mental health issues among young people.

So just how significant, how widespread do you guys see the problem as being right now?

Dr.. What's up with you?

I I'm seeing a lot of young people in my practice and in my office.

I get referrals all the time from area pediatricians and and calls just, you know, my young adult needs some help.

So it's it's pretty widespread.

There are and there's a range of issues.

It's you know, you've got your anxiety and your depression but also, you know, family issues, you know, financial pressures, social issues, friends.

There's there's a lot going on with our young people.

And Abraham, I know you work a lot with college age young people.

So what are you seeing out there?

So there was a study actually done 2022 that found that 60% of college students meet the criteria for at least one mental health condition.

And so when I think of mental health conditions, it's anything from depression, anxiety or other severe mental illnesses, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder.

And if the statistic is accurate, which it is, and they've done, you know, multiple studies to identify, then the problem that we're seeing and hearing about is also accurate, because one thing that we've noticed, especially since the COVID 19 pandemic, is that more college students are opening up and vocalizing what their challenges are and needs are.

And so if that's the case, then I believe that statistic is something that we really have to pay attention to and for, especially the individuals who are less likely to articulate what they're experiencing.

There are specific demographics of students who deal with multiple barriers, stigma being one of those, and other accessibility issues, and they may not necessarily be counted in that statistic.

And so we're thinking about it as a whole with it being 60% of those college students are dealing with a mental health condition.

There are other students as well.

Who is important for us to look out for those students and identify creative support mechanisms for them.

And tell them you are a college student.

UW After 18 year old.

So what are you seeing among your peers in terms of people having mental health struggles?

I would say that it's definitely voiced more and nowadays students are not really nervous to talk about what they're going through in their mental health.

The problem that I see a lot of the times more is that people do not take it.

People take it more lightly nowadays because in our generation, I think sometimes in a coping mechanism that's used too much is to make light of it.

And so people will insert in the conversation, Oh, like I just feel like I just feel like killing myself.

I just like it's so like, it's so dumb.

Like, I just want to I just want to, like, pop something or whatever.

And it's and it's a joke and it's in that way it takes the edge off of the mental health like conversation.

But the other end of that is that people do not we do not see it's very elusive to see if someone's making a joke or if they're really calling for help.

And a lot of times those conversations are hard to have with someone if you do have that courageous conversation with them and then they come up to you and and then they tell you like, I was just making a joke.

And now that relationship is thrown off.

And I think so that's the stigma part of it.

You know, it's lessened, but then it's also like skewed a little bit, too.

Is that I mean, what do you see with that?

So I would actually say yes and no, because when we talk about stigma, there are different factors to consider.

One being self stigma and then social stigma.

So as it relates to having the conversation broadly, I would say that we're having more conversations about mental health in a general sense as a society, but as it relates to self stigma.

And for example, it is if I were to say to myself, I'm dealing with certain challenges that make me feel depressed, I'm less likely to say that because it has to do with myself versus what I may see in a peer or in a general sense, talking about mental health.

So there are different dynamics to consider with stigma, self stigma, social stigma, institutional stigma as well.

And so as we consider the conversation shifting, I think it's important to recognize that as well.

And I think, you know, all the studies show that the problem is worse now.

There's more people dealing with this, more young people dealing with this.

So why do you think that is?

Why why has this problem got worse among young people?

Well, probably for several different reasons.

And social media is is one of them.

The conversation is started.

People, I think that young people and adults as well are very attached to their devices, their phones, their iPads, their computers and it's a big change from how we used to function.

Used to be you wouldn't know that your friends were having a party in real time and that you were not invited to it.

Now, you know, immediately and then you're you know, it used to be you had to go back to school on Monday, say, and then hear people talking about it.

But it's like it's broadcast.

And so that's a challenge.

That's it's really hard.

It was hard enough hearing about it on Monday, but knowing you were missing out, you know, or that somebody didn't think to invite you or and then the feelings that come with that, it's it's a big challenge.

The other thing is managing time on the devices.

That's an issue.

But also because brain development takes time.

And, you know, they talk about young men and that's like the average is 25 for the prefrontal cortex to really gel, and that's an average.

So that's older for some people, younger for some people, you make impulsive decisions, maybe you make a bad decision and and somebody captures it on their phone or, you know, they're filming or something and you can't escape it.

It it can get blasted out to everybody.

And we've seen that happen over and over and over again with very ill effects for the students, children involved.

So there are so many different facets to what's happening right now.

And it's moved really fast.

You know, you talk about social media.

LAM As an 18 year old, you only know a world with social media.

You know, some of us know, you know, differently.

But, you know, how much does that put pressure?

How much does that add to people's issues?

What do you have to deal with on social media?

Yeah, so on the side of like image based issues, I think that like no other generation, we've had to grow up from a very young age, having to keep a public image from like the age of like nine or ten people were already getting Instagram and Snapchat.

And so I don't think that we were we were anywhere near as mature enough to handle having a public image and knowing the difference between a public image and who we actually are.

And we kind of pander to our public image.

And so even in our day to day lives, we're thinking like, well, I post, I posted this so I have to be like this.

I posted this like I'm an athlete.

I posted this.

So I'm so I this is this is who I am.

And so in real life, kids try to live up to these identities that they're that they're posting on social media and trying to be trying to do like the most the most exciting thing, the most out of the box thing to then see in that way among their peers.

And it's almost like a contest that everyone's playing, like no one's really calling it out.

And then the other side of it with like the screen time we were talking about, it's almost it's, it almost feels like you are engaging with people when you're on social media.

You really feel like I am in a community, I am, I am.

I'm contacting people like work.

We're communicating right now.

But once I leave my phone after being on 2 hours, it tick tock.

I feel worse and I'm like, How did I feel?

Whereas I laughed the whole time I was I was texting people, I was sharing tiktoks with people.

But then when I'm done, it doesn't feel like the same, like the same euphoric effect you get after you're done talking with your friends in real life.

Yeah, there's a lot of issues to deal with.

Abraham You're a little bit older, but not that all under 30, right?

Yeah.

So, you know, you anybody that knows you knows you're very together guy, very impressive guy.

But you had your issues that you struggled with that kind of got you into this field.

So kind of tell us a little bit about the struggles you went through and how you got through them.

Yeah, so it would have to start from the beginning.

So being raised in Miami, Florida, by two Jamaican immigrant parents, there was a specific dynamic in our household where we talked about certain things.

We didn't talk about certain things.

And one of those things we didn't talk about was mental health or feelings or emotions.

And so I grew up in that environment.

No fault to my parents because you just don't know what you don't know.

And I grew up in that environment where I wasn't told to suppress my feelings, but I learned how to do it because it's what I saw.

Fast forward doing that for years until you're 18, and now you decide to be the first in your family to go off to college, move to Pensacola, Florida.

I'm a full time student.

I'm working full time because I have my own apartment.

And so now I've got bills and new responsibilities.

And then I had this image.

Going back to what you say about this idea of what college is supposed to look like, you go to parties, you have fun, you meet people.

So there's this expectation that I have that is very high.

And especially as a first generation college student, it's very difficult just navigating the college scene in general.

And then you add that additional experience to it.

So it quickly led to me being overwhelmed with stress.

And because I was managing a lot of things as an 18 year old and then I later developed depression and at the time I didn't have the language to call it depression.

It was a friend of mine who saw the shift from me being a very motivated, enthusiastic person to being withdrawn and isolated.

She reached out.

Help me to recognize what I was experiencing and said, Hey, you can get help.

So it was a it was a journey of being able to unlearn a lot of the things that I learned and saw growing up and then just being open to, Hey, what if this is depression?

What if depression is a real thing?

What if I do need help and I'm open enough to even seek support?

So some of the challenge has it had to do with expectations, you know, very high expectations that were impossible to reach and maintain.

And then the image, right.

The things that you see that as a college student, you're supposed to do these things and then working full time managing that time management is another factor.

And then being a first generation college student, no one in my family did it before.

So who do I call to say, Hey, how do you navigate financial aid?

How do you.

How do you.

You know?

So it was a few different factors that I had to consider.

And although my experience is unique to me, it's a very common experience for a lot of college students, whether they're first generation or not.

And then you add the part of COVID 19 shifting our worlds.

So a lot of freshmen college students went from taking or having classes online to going right into the college environment.

And so they had a period of time where there was no real social interaction and the expectation was to still perform at your optimal level.

And now I'm a college student who missed my first year, first two years, and I'm still expected to do well in school and navigate, build relationships, interact.

And then there's, you know, there's factors that we miss, you know, as it relates to just taking care of ourselves.

I'm sure you hear a lot of these different type of things in your practice.

You see many, you know, younger people.

So what are the main kind of triggers and issues with a lot of other young people that come to see you?

Well, you hit on a bunch of them your your financial, your family, that you come from the culture.

If there's any history of abuse, neglect, trauma, but also just just growing up is tough.

So it's hard to be a young person socially.

There's a lot of pressure.

What you were speaking to that we've never been as connected as we are and we've never been less connected.

So it's I, I love talking to young people about, you know, who's the person that you can call that will show up.

I don't you know, I don't want to hear about your buddy in England.

I want to know when you've got a flat tire or or you're on the side of the road somewhere.

Who who do you call?

Who shows up for you?

And everybody needs those people that show up for them, whether it's family or friends, because we can build our own families of friends.

Everybody has different resources in that department.

The life today is hard.

COVID, you know, kicked off something that none of us anticipate it and trying to manage that, manage the expectations.

Everything is still required of the young people.

But here, let's add a layer of difficulty that, you know, you might get sick, you might get your family sick, you might, you know, somebody that you love might get sick and die.

And there were a lot of people that had to deal with that.

So a lot of anxiety, a lot of just life anxiety.

What if this happens?

What if that happens?

And then you put in like perfectionism, if you have high expectations of yourself or your family has high expectations and it's it is a lot of pressure.

So and I see it across the ages, across the age, like from middle school, all the way through college and beyond.

Sometimes.

Yeah, people need a lot of help.

Now, if that's that's what you do now.

Abraham So you founded his organization, speaks to Inspire.

So what was the impetus for that?

And tell us a little bit about what it does and what you do.

Yeah, so that speaks to inspire.

We are simply eradicating mental health stigma.

And I know it's a strong statement, but I strongly believe that it's possible to do that if we focus on two aspects storytelling and education.

And what I've learned throughout my own personal experience is if I can be honest, open and transparent enough with someone about my own experience, it creates this safety and space for connection connection where I can then share information for this individual to utilize to better their own mental health and their journey.

So as someone who was diagnosed with major depressive disorder went through treatment and the process of working through that mental health condition by sharing my story and then providing mental health education, I think we can work towards removing the stigma.

So currently we work with schools primarily in higher education, and we provide speaking and training services and we have a team of individuals where we do anything for mental health literacy, peer to peer support programs.

We do suicide prevention, trauma informed training and we're holistically looking at the aspect of stigma that exists and how it's negatively impacting the campus at large.

And how can we insert different opportunities and learning opportunities for students, as well as faculty and staff, to engage in more conversations to create these safe spaces.

And that's kind of how you came in contact with Lambert.

But before we get to that, Lamm, you know, you seemed like a very engaging young man.

Seems like you got it all together.

But I know you went through some struggles yourself.

So what what were some of the challenges that you've had to deal with?

And so a lot of my challenges, I think, kind of stemmed from my life, my background.

And obviously that's going to be play a factor.

But being an immigrant, being a first generation immigrant, I came to America when I was about five years old and my parents worked so hard to get to where they were.

My dad came here with just $600 to his name, and he brought me and my my mom and my rest of my family over here.

Two years later, still working to get his doctorate, my mom staying at home and then going to nursing school.

And so you see a line of hard work, of resilience, of excellence, and your job is to take it to the next level.

My dad always said, like, where we are right now should be the lowest that our family ever is.

And we are, and we are.

And when you start off in like an upper middle class, it's like the next spot is you're there.

Like you're living the American dream.

And so from a young age, I knew that excellence was the standard, and excellence was all like, was all I was.

I was going to do so for my young age.

Like, it started off it started off well because my dad prepared me for school.

I would I would do I would do programs just he would buy me like a math book over the summer just to prepare for the great.

It's like you should be ahead of the grade that you're going into.

And so for the longest time, everyone's everyone's kind of telling me, like, Lamm, you're so brilliant, you're so smart.

At the time, I was very like, it was very of course, it's affirming for me, like it was great to hear.

But then I hit high school and things start being challenging for me.

My first challenging class, I think I can remember, was like either algebra on a chemistry and I was just like, okay, so why is this hard for me?

Because everything has been easy for me.

And so I then I start questioning whether I'm actually smart is someone asked me a question.

I'm like, I just make up an answer because I can not know the answer.

And so that starts that's the first thing is like deflecting any sign of weakness.

And so I start doing that and then it goes into socially, if, if I don't if I don't feel good about something that someone did to me, it's like I'm like, that's a weakness to kind of be like, Oh, that actually hurt me.

So I deflect that as well.

And then finally, like coming into college, there's this I don't know, there's this kind of pervasive theme.

It's kind of, I feel like specifically in minority communities, I would say, for the black community, because I'm a part of it.

But the my parents always told me that I needed to work twice as hard to get to where I wanted to go to among my other peers.

And so I came up with I have to be twice as good as you to get the same position.

But that means if I have if I'm anxious, if I am, if I'm not doing well in a in a in a subject I can't go to, I can go to a counselor.

I can't go get I can't ask someone if they'll help me with this homework because I'm supposed to be better than you.

I'm supposed to be twice as good as you.

And that's a weakness.

And so I only started really unfolding all these things, like literally coming in to college, but I'm still working on it.

Yeah.

It's.

It's a lot.

So.

So how did you hook on with Abraham and how was he helped you act?

Funny story.

His mom met my dad at our local church and then my dad contacted me and said, LAMB, this is someone that I feel like would be a good mentor for you because his mom, his mom introduced me to like he said, this is my son.

I think he'd be a good mentor for your son.

And at the time, I was like, okay, that's that's, that's, that's good.

I mean, I just I saved his number.

Contact him later, ended up going to a pre-med event at FSU.

And after hearing again, all of the things that I now I have to do to get into medical school, I was like, okay, I need a mentor.

I was like, okay.

So I ended up texting him like right after the event.

And that's how we got to know each other.

Yeah, Yeah.

So obviously not everybody has a name for him, even though obviously they can, they can, you know, jump in on your services, you know, at different times.

But a lot of people try to go to counselors.

But but how much is there a shortage right now of of counselors compared to how many people how many young people need counselors?

I was going to say, I don't know that there's a shortage of counselors, but the need is so great.

You know, it seems like there is and maybe access to them is a problem.

I know that in some ways that online counseling through different platforms that they're advertising on all over social media.

Right.

Get some help.

And that is a way that people can access therapy services, maybe easier.

I am a little bit old school and I happen to believe that sitting with somebody and and holding space for them and whatever they bring to me is more therapeutic.

It definitely helps me in terms of reading somebody and sitting with them and really getting a clear message about what they're dealing with, what they're going through.

And it's it's easy or I think to hide that when you're dealing with, you know, everybody's using phones.

I don't know how they're doing that.

The screens are too small for me, but like behind a computer or an iPad and you can you only get to see a little bit of somebody when the full presentation may tell you more.

But but you don't really the demand for your services.

You can't meet that, right?

I can.

I can't.

I'm you know, I practice alone.

I'm solo practitioner.

I've you know, I've got my office.

I don't have staff and I have to limit the number of people that I can see for myself, for my own well-being, for my own mental health, but also for my clients, because I don't feel as though I would be as effective if I'm completely wrung out at the end of the day.

Plus, if we're going to talk about like being healthy and stuff, work life balance and I have teenage daughters and if I've given at all during the day and I have nothing left over for them, that in some ways I am perpetuating mental health problems through not taking care of what my kids need.

So it's it's definitely a balancing act.

Yeah.

And some of the challenges of shelter for so many people, but for many in the African-American community, maybe there's more of a stigma attached to that because I know there's there's a study out there saying that in terms of college students, white college students are almost twice as likely as black students to seek out mental health.

Is that is there a special challenge for minority students in dealing with this?

Yeah, so lam actually touched on it when he was sharing about his own experience.

So there is this common misconception, especially in the African-American community and other minority communities, that when you're dealing with a mental health condition, that is a sign of weakness.

So for example, if you're depressed, you're weak.

And it wasn't until I heard a psychiatrist put it this way, he said Depression is a mood disorder.

And as long as you have moods, right, and you are unable to effectively manage those moods, you can develop a mood disorder.

So by learning how to effectively manage your mood, it it's it keeps you and it develops a protective factor for you so that you're less likely to develop a mood disorder like depression or anxiety.

And so in the African-American community, if we genuinely believe that depression is a sign of weakness, we're not going to say I'm depressed because it's like saying I am weak.

And so with that being the misconception, I think the biggest thing that we can do is to showcase other individuals from similar backgrounds who don't believe that misconception and have had experiences with mental health support or to encourage other black students, minority students, that it's okay to seek help.

And this is actually a condition just like if you had the cold or you had the flu and you would seek support.

Which is what you're doing, your modeling.

That's the.

Whole hope.

Exactly.

All right.

So so we're not going to solve the world right here, but having a discussion like this goes a long way in helping people.

So what are some solutions that you guys think can be helpful as we try to tackle this?

What do you think you know from within your peers?

What would you like to see happen to help more people like yourself deal with mental health issues?

So the biggest thing that I've seen, help me and help my friends is just smaller group, smaller knit communities.

So like, first of all, like I was I was I played sports for most of my life and that was a community.

But even in that, sometimes I was a bit too big to share some things with.

And so you get smaller than that.

And then you go to like my like my church, like my youth group community, and then sometimes there's some things that I even can't share.

There you go, smaller than that.

And that's where I that's where that's where I saw that there was a missing link.

There was a smaller group that I still didn't I felt like I didn't have.

And that's why I created Chosen Generation Bible Study.

And it's just something that I do on the weekends with my very tight group of friends where I just share a message.

But then we just talk about exactly what we're going through and no judgment.

And usually I have to be the one to like, bring up something that I'm going through more than someone, everyone.

But Oh yeah, like, yeah, me too.

But I'm okay being the first one to be vulnerable if it means that other people can find relief and then find community in that.

So I think smaller tightknit communities is what is going to ultimately help us because because it feels like there's a pressure to have a lot of friends.

I know a lot of people be a part of a lot of groups, but as I've grown older, I've seen that like this, that the smaller friend groups, the core people that I have are the ones that bring me 90% of the of the of the reassurance of the of the social of the social I guess health that I need other than like the other 10% which is like way more people.

Which speaks to the social media issue because most of the people they don't really know you and they deal with all of the issues at Dr. Killingsworth, what do you think is something you can point to that you'd like to see more of that you feel like can be helpful in this area?

I, I really do wish there was an easier way for people to access actual people, you know, to to have their have somebody to sit with.

I, I am a human being.

I am not a therapist.

When I walk out of my office, I, I take it with me.

But it's not how I operate in the world.

It would be weird.

And and so you know, I find that people are afraid sometimes to even tell me they've come to me, but they're afraid to tell me what's really going on internally, that there's some kind of competition.

Yes, I feel bad, but I don't feel as bad as this person or, you know, I haven't had any hardship in my life.

Why do I feel this way?

And I don't I don't deserve to be here, you know, like somebody else needs to be here.

Well, that, you know, is not a it's not a factual statement.

It's not true.

They they have standing by being a human being.

And and I hold a lot of respect for anybody that comes into my space and is willing to be vulnerable and authentic and and let me know what's going on.

That's when I can actually help.

But I'm not the expert on everything.

They're the expert on their life and what they've experienced.

I just bring the counseling expertise to the table, my own experience and my experience as a human being.

So if there were a way to have opportunities to get people with smaller groups with real connection, I think that would be the best way to address a lot of these issues.

The disconnect that people feel when they look at their friends online and and the disconnect that they feel sometimes in their own family of origin, because they have to be something that they don't feel that they are.

If they're good enough.

Be willing to talk about.

I think one of your topics is it's okay to not be okay.

Yeah.

Is that a big thing?

Is that maybe some of the biggest hurdles right there is just accepting the first part of it and then seeking the help and reaching out?

Yeah, that's the big part because it starts with you.

You have to recognize whether I'm good or I'm not good.

And then from there you can articulate what it is that you need to.

I think to your point about what we can do, I think a big part of it is investing.

And I'd start with investing time, because I think our approach typically is that there's a one size fits all approach to supporting everyone.

But the reality is, especially if you're working with African American individuals or minority individuals, there are creative ways that we can engage these individuals.

I had a speaking engagement at a university recently and one of the peer educator specialists was saying how she's gained so much from creating spaces for students to create their own solutions.

And then she, you know, empowers them to execute on those solutions.

And similar to what you're saying, Doc, is that when we can realize that they bring a level of expertise to the table and we invest the time and energy worth and that's necessary to empower them, I think we can help because if there aren't as many people accessing formal mental health care, how can we equip students to be peer supporters?

You know what I mean?

So just being creative in our approach to supporting them.

All right.

That's a great way to finish our first segment.

So I thank you all so much for spending time with us and sharing your stories and your knowledge.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Of course, our young people spend much of their time at school and that puts the mental health crisis front and center there.

We'll hear from a panel of experts in education coming up.

Studies show over 60% of college students meet the criteria for at least one mental health problem.

That's a nearly 50% increase since 2013.

And the issues really start before that.

50% of all lifetime mental illness begins by the age of 14.

The number of teens with depression has more than doubled in the last decade.

And the problem is front and center in our schools.

Here to help me, help us understand the challenges and solutions being attempted are Dr. Greg Thompson, the VP for Academic Engagement and Student Affairs at UW at the University of West Florida.

Caesarea McCord Pensacola State College, Mental Health Services Specialist, and Silvio Fina, Escambia County Public Schools Mental Health Services Coordinator.

So thank you all so much for joining us here today.

So we know this is a big issue out there.

So just how how significant, how prevalent are mental health issues with youth right now?

And Sylvia, I'll start with you.

Okay.

Since 2018, which was the inception of our department, which was formed in the wake of Marjory Stoneman Douglas, we have seen 8151 students at Tier three mental health counseling in the schools.

And that's commensurate with outpatient counseling because we move the counseling into the schools.

So of those 8151, we did a survey one time, and we're really heartened by the results that 78% of those students who completed an episode of CARE reported significant improvement and so did their referral sources, the school counselors in the guidance department, the administrators and the teachers.

So so think things are being done, but there's obviously still a very significant problem.

Caesarea what are you seeing out there?

I work with PSC Pirates Care.

So when we first started mental health counseling here, it was just one mental health provider.

Now there's four.

One being a intern from USF and we see an influx of students on a daily basis for various reasons and then some.

We even have to outsource out to community providers because we are not able to handle that load.

So it's as we see it come in, it's been increasing specifically since I've received this position.

And Greg, what are the how significant is it out there?

Sure.

You've already heard the problem is is pretty big in our community and in our high schools.

And that, of course, rolls up into colleges and universities.

The healthy Mind study is a big national study that's done every year on college and university campuses.

And we have great data from that study that shows that anywhere between 30 and 40% of college students in the United States have a clinically significant mental health problem.

And that's usually depression, anxiety or some stress related disorder.

So I would say that at those numbers we are definitely looking at an epidemic of mental health problems on our campuses and in our young people.

Of course, it encompasses a lot of different type of issues.

So what are some of the the main issues that you see with the different with the students that come in to see you?

The main issues I see are loneliness, depression and anxiety, loneliness.

There seems to be, especially after copay, a lack of connections.

One thing I met Mr. Sylvio when I was in school myself, working in practicum.

Even there, those students were coming out of COVID and they struggled with the same things I see now working on the collegiate level.

And it's it's just progressed.

So I see students where it's like they all struggle with the same thing, but yet they're all scared to connect with others.

And a lot of them don't know how to connect with others to the point where we are now initiating a program called Project Connect, where we kind of help build social skills.

Greg, what are you what are you seeing where the people at UW after the medical issues that people are struggling with?

Everything we've heard so far, and I would add to that that we're seeing more severe cases of mental health problems.

So Severity is increasing in addition to the number of students presenting who have mental health clinically significant mental health problems.

And we're learning a lot.

That trauma informs a great deal of what we're seeing.

So some of the latest research in the field is really looking at how life experiences early in life or in the student's current life cycle are are creating traumas that create problems that are just very intractable and very hard to deal with.

You know, backing up what you're saying that I saw a study that said 11.5% of youth are experiencing severe major depression.

That's a big number, 11.5%.

It's severe depression.

So it's obviously a big, big problem.

What about in the public schools?

What are the main issues that pop up for you that you guys have to deal with on a daily basis?

Right.

So I echo with both what both of them said and I think at the heart of it is how the young person feels or sees himself or herself.

So kids are excellent observers, but they're terrible interpreters sometimes, and they ascribe things to themselves like, I'm unlovable, I'm bound to be abandoned, I'm not good enough.

This means that I you know, I caused the disruption in my family.

You know, I don't think the political environment with the divisiveness and the hatred that's constantly being spewed, it's doing anybody any favors.

So, yeah, we see a lot of that.

And the counselors that I supervise, that's our starting point.

And sometimes our ending point is how does the client feel and see himself or herself.

And we try to, you know, move outwards from there.

And a lot of times the first step is seeking help, you know, and there's a stigma that's still out there.

And the first segment they talked about, in some ways that's better.

In some ways it's worse.

So.

So, Greg, what are you seeing in terms of the stigma?

Is it is it better or worse in terms of seeking the help?

I agree with what Lam said earlier, that some of the stigma seems to be getting better, that there's more of a normative expectation that mental health services are available and that students can take advantage of them.

But I don't want to say that that's corrected the problem.

So we have introduced other avenues for students to seek mental health services that aren't necessarily walking into the counseling clinic and asking to see a counselor.

So we have online options.

We have peer mentoring options, pure wellness educators.

There are social networks online that are moderated by mental health professionals, all of which give students who may be experiencing some reluctance or that feeling of being stigmatized an opportunity to enter into a space for mental health care.

That's a little bit more open, a little bit less frightening.

How about ABC?

Are you finding an openness to people wanting to seek help?

Yes and no.

So one thing that we do have here at PSC is call it a student of concern report.

So if the student does not come in their cells, there is a way for staff and faculty to send a message to the Powers Care team in order for us to reach out to that student to see if they need mental health resources or case management resources.

We also have different ways for them to receive care.

We have the Together all platform, which is kind of like a peer community online that they can sign up for, for free and get some help through there.

We have virtual and in-person options to seek counseling and also case management.

So there's a lot of things out there in the public schools.

What are the services that are available in mental health?

Since 2019, we have trained 4619 faculty staff and administrators in our buildings, 54 of them, to recognize the signs and symptoms of mental illness at their beginnings.

It's not specific to Escambia County.

The other 66 counties in Florida had to do it as well.

But we're proud of that because it's a big number and we've been at it a long time.

But we've got teachers and teacher aides and support staff and admin looking for those early signs and symptoms.

So we operate a tiered approach.

And so, for example, a teacher may go up to a student say, Hey, you don't seem like your usual self.

I've noticed.

And then the kids ears perk up and you say, You know what you noticed?

And is there something you want to talk about?

There are people who can talk to you more about it if you'd like to.

So we've got people constantly surveying the faces and the emotional dispositions of our kids and then they refer them to the school counselor in the guidance department.

They try to resolve and refer 85 90% of the time they're successful.

If they're not, then we enter in with a Tier three and do like a treatment plan.

Parent consent and move forward from there.

Maybe, you know, evidence based stuff.

You find a lot of the students are open to it.

Are they they're willing to accept the help or is that a challenge?

They think they're open to it, Yes.

If they ease into it and, you know, the person who recognizes they step through that window of opportunity when they saw it, they already had that connection.

That relationship was built in the easement.

It's like a link in the chain.

So, yeah.

How about at UW?

Have you talked a little bit about it?

But the counseling and psychological services, the caps.

So you know, what are some of the things that are available to students?

Right.

We're trying to move from walk in the door and immediately get counseling, which we can't provide to every single person who walks through the door to what we call a step to care model.

So step care involves, as you would imagine, different levels of care, sort of what Sylvio just said.

But can you get into a maybe a group therapy session?

Can you get into a peer support group?

Can you get into an online community that fits you Would one or two sessions of coaching or tutoring or other kind of mentoring be the right fit for you?

So we go through a process of evaluating each student who comes to us, whether they come to us through a faculty referral or through the front door of the counseling center to try to find the best fit so we can address the issues.

And often with college students, as we heard Abraham saying earlier, it's not just how they're feeling about their mood, it's about how they're navigating the campus.

And so providing a wraparound suite of support services becomes incredibly important.

Yeah, you all have a lot of elbow, but still, there's such a demand for this right now.

So do you feel like the services meet the demand or is there enough counselors, are there enough programs there?

Is there enough help right now for for what's needed?

Is there ever I feel as if with my team specifically, we do our best to support as many students as we can.

But of course, I think if you all want to just pop in one day and just do some volunteer work, we will accept you proudly.

But we do.

We we make sure that every student that walks into our office is served in the best way possible.

And that's no matter what they need.

We also have a clothing closet, professional attire.

Clothing closet.

So even if it's as simple as the meeting, something to wear to an interview, we have that for them guys, cars, bus passes to get to and from school.

We have that for them.

So in from what we have seen, students are very appreciative and they come back.

Is the funding there, you know that you feel like it is needed to to be able to run your departments?

You know, these services as much as you would want at the present time.

We don't run a waitlist in our counseling center, which is one of the metrics or measures that I use to try to understand demand.

But we will start running a waitlist as we get closer to final exams when stress levels go up.

So we keep an eye on that.

Right now we are adequately staffed and we have been able to add, for example, a part time psychiatric care practitioner or a psychiatrist, and we have a full time psychiatric nurse practitioner.

So we've actually been able to expand some of our services.

But as the demand increases, we are, of course, running up against a challenge.

And statewide, I would say we're definitely experiencing some pressure.

How about the public schools?

I think we are happy and very grateful to the state legislature for the $1.8 million that we got this year and we are adequately staffed and we have like a break even point because we're in the public school setting and our teachers are hard charging.

They are on a pacing guide.

They are not messing around.

They've got to take care of business when they get there.

That's why absences hurt everybody so much.

Because when you miss a day, you're behind.

There's a gap.

So, you know, I said that to say this, there are only about three and a half hours in the school day possibly that we can actually access the kids without disrupting their academic gains because everything we do is based towards removing the emotional or mental health obstacle.

So can achieve academically.

So it's more like you see, it's like a brief, brief therapy that works.

It gets them over the hump and it stops it from festering and worsening.

But it looks a little different in the public school system.

Of course, parents are always a big part of this equation.

Sometimes they're trying to find help, sometimes they don't know there's a problem and sometimes they may be the problem.

So how would I know?

It's handled differently college wise and public school wise?

So how are parents involved?

Notified.

I'll start with you because that's always going to be the case, I guess.

You know, in your scenario.

A parent who's concerned about their student who needs counseling would contact their school counselor in the guidance department, the school counselor would make first contact with the student, try to resolve the situation.

Like I said earlier, about 85 to 90% of the times they they're able to resolve it with 1 to 2 or three meetings if that's not possible.

They refer to tier three where we come in with evidence based counseling, and then we would contact the parent, get a parent consent, do a behavioral service, record a treatment plan, and involve the parent at the beginning, at the middle, at the end.

We we follow the parent notification law.

You're familiar with that.

That came out a couple of years ago where I think it's great.

When it first came out, we thought we were going to owe the confidentiality.

The kids are never going to talk, but it didn't have that effect at all because what that says is it's incumbent upon the counselor.

If the minor reveals to the counselors something egregious, they're in a gang, they're doing drugs, they're stealing, they're any activity that could lead to long term, painful consequences.

The counselor will call the parent because we need to involve them so they can stop it right.

And help us stop it.

Y'know, obviously, on the college level, once you're 18, it's a totally different story.

So.

So what are the challenges in trying to involve if you need to involve parents?

Sure.

There are two main laws that govern how we can and can't share information.

One is HIPA, one is fir.

But I won't go into all the details, but they are very strict and we can't just pick up the phone and call parent when a student is in trouble.

There are different releases that a student can sign that could give parents different levels of information.

Health care information, though, is a completely different level of protection.

So we do have exit clauses in those laws that allow us to bypass the restrictions and contact a parent when there are extreme situations of life and death.

But beyond that, if there's not a life in danger, it's very, very hard.

A lot of different reasons for these things and I covered the pandemic was definitely something that exacerbated, you know, all these mental health issues.

How much of a factor do you feel like the pandemic had and still has on students mental health?

As I was saying earlier, I kind of started in the field during COVID.

Of course, prior to that, I had case management experience.

But one thing I noticed from pre-COVID, working in case manager management, too, after COVID, working in counseling was there was an influx of younger people and then also there was an increase in loneliness.

And with that came the increase of anxiety and depression became the decrease of social skills.

I find that students become overwhelmed a lot, and then when you break it down, yes, they're overwhelmed over school, their studies, whole life, work life, so on and so forth.

But they're also overwhelmed because they don't have anyone to talk to.

And a lot of them, they come in saying, Hey, I just want I just want I just want to talk.

Of course I tell them, yeah, we can talk.

But I'm also going to do some therapeutic work in here because, you know, but a lot of them, they come in just like that.

Like I just want someone to talk to.

And a lot of people felt like they weren't ready because they were sheltered for such a long period of time.

They weren't ready to go to college or they weren't ready to go to high school.

You know, as that's.

Do you find a lot of issues still out there with that?

Oh, absolutely.

And any data set that you look at, there's always these great aberrations, you know, right.

During the pandemic and immediately after.

And we are still making up for and trying to understand the implications of that social isolation that turn to digital learning, to more intensive digital networks in our lives, not leaving our houses.

All the issues that were discussed by the panel earlier are pervasive in in everything that we see and do.

How do you guys.

I agree completely with what they both said.

It came at a great cost because of all the loss and isolation.

And we're still we see the gaps.

Some of our referring sources in eighth grade.

You can go back to, you know, 20 whenever the pandemic once the pandemic.

2021, 2020.

20, excuse me.

And you can see that it follows that gap is following that class, especially the third grade and so on up there, everything's delayed.

Yeah.

How about social media?

Obviously, that's a big topic also.

And that makes a lot of these issues worse.

I mean, there's positives to it, certainly, but there's a lot of negatives too.

So are there things in place that that you try to limit?

I guess you can't limit an oncologist, but what what can you do?

Social media wise, to lessen some of the negatives they come from that we talk a lot about wellness education.

So you heard Liam earlier talk about the euphoria he feels when he's on social media and the emptiness that comes after.

So how do we have all of our students gain that kind of insight?

So peer education, wellness education can help our students develop a better self understanding of how social media is affecting their mental health.

Because the effects are being shown all the time.

And we have an emerging body of national data that just reinforces that truth is real.

Usually ask the question, What do you like to do outside of your phone?

And I have them create a list of hobbies or activities they can do that takes them away from me and as they will, instead of picking up your phone and being on it for two, three, 4 hours, how about you go outside and go for a walk for 30 minutes?

How about you play with your dog?

How about you play dominoes?

What your grant?

And usually they after some apprehension, usually once they start doing those skills and putting that work, they feel better.

How do you get how do you guys kind of try to control this in the public schools?

Well, we like to focus on fear of missing out.

That's been a recurring and that's the phenomenon that kids believe that someone your age right now is experiencing something in the know about something or possesses something better than you do and you're missing out.

So that causes them great angst.

And so we try to employ grounding techniques, you know, breathing, to try to get them to understand that, you know, other people don't have it better than you.

You're very important.

Try to create what you want.

Take steps to make it happen.

It's about the journey, right?

About being together on the way while in dialog, while being taken seriously.

And it's never a one off.

So it's not come in and look at something inside you and you know, that helps because you know, it provides relief.

But it's not a one off.

I know one service you guys have at UW is called Together All.

Tell us a little bit about that program or what it does together.

All is one of the online based social connection peer to peer platforms that allows students who may have some hesitancy about coming into the counseling center to connect with each other and receive guidance from mental health professionals who monitor the platform.

It's a national service.

A lot of universities use it.

One interesting thing we note about together is that it does tend to heavily help populations that tend not to walk in the front door of the counseling center.

Men in particular are overrepresented on together all and underrepresented in the counseling center.

And sometimes in some areas.

Students of color are underrepresented in the counseling center, but overrepresented and together.

So it speaks to some of that stigma and and different community based issues that we deal with in providing mental health services.

So we all want to find solutions that we're all trying different things.

So as we get towards the end of the program here, what's what's been the biggest thing that you would like to see happen that you feel like in advance?

You know, the knowledge advance, you know, the tools that we can tackle this problem more significantly.

I would say, is something that we're currently offering free mental health services and free wellness services.

A lot of students, they are struggling financially, especially post-COVID.

And so they can't afford to actually seek private mental health care.

So us being able to offer these services for free on the campus is great for them.

And then also we, as the ACA does, a lot of my clients are call me old being able to listen to them, take in what they're saying, and they improve who I am as a counselor, as a person in order to meet their needs.

Sylvia, what do you think?

You know, what's a big step that we can take?

I think if we continue to focus on the collective impact that the adults in the child's daily life have by stepping into that window of opportunity when they come to you, the emotions are right there and you say, Hey, I've noticed, you know, you're not your usual self.

Do you want to talk?

What's going on?

What's on your mind?

Let's sort it out.

I think that collective impact can have as good a effect as sitting down with a counselor at 4:00 when it's no longer a problem for them.

Greg, I'll give you the final word.

Sure.

Keeping the services available and free is crucial.

Stepped care is crucial.

Alternatives to social media are crucial.

And one other thing we haven't mentioned is with just a moment, We mentioned it was training for faculty, teachers, staff.

The teachers and faculty are on the front lines of engaging with students.

And even before they come into a counseling center or find together role, they're talking to their faculty.

The faculty are watching them, interacting with them.

And we need to provide deeper, better, stronger support, education and relief to our teachers who are on the front lines.

I think that is crucial in this particular program.

All right.

Well, thank you all so much for your time and your expertise.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I'd also like to thank our guests from our first segment, Dr. Kelsey Killingsworth, Abraham Scully and Lamb Ngafeeson.

Hopefully, this discussion is helpful for those dealing with student mental health issues and those that want to do something about it.

I know we all want all of our kids to be okay.

Thanks for watching.