[Scott] Coming up on "Energy Switch," we'll talk with two very promising energy students.

- So older generation were more interested in having energy at all.

- Hm mm.

- For us, we can think, how can we make it better?

How can we have newer technologies and cleaner ones?

I think we're very hopeful in a cleaner world, and I think that's because it's in our hands.

- I think within 20 years, we could really achieve this ideal energy portfolio if we set our mind to it, if we continue funding research and knowledge and learning to help build that energy portfolio.

[Scott] Next on "Energy Switch," students discuss the future of energy and climate.

[Narrator] Funding for "Energy Switch" was provided in part by the University of Texas at Austin, leading research in energy and the environment for a better tomorrow.

What starts here changes the world.

And by EarthX, an international nonprofit working towards a more sustainable future.

See more at earthx.org.

[upbeat music] - I'm Scott Tinker, and I'm an energy scientist.

I work in the field, lead research, speak around the world, write articles, and make films about energy.

This show brings together leading experts on vital topics in energy and climate.

They may have different perspectives, but my goal is to learn, and illuminate, and bring diverging views together towards solutions.

Welcome to the "Energy Switch."

From now on, we'll devote an episode each season to young voices on energy and climate.

We'll start by hearing from two advanced energy students about the future of nuclear, carbon capture and storage, solar and wind, battery technology, energy reliability and access in the developing world, climate change, and their hopes for the future.

Joining us are, Shadya Taleb, got her petroleum engineering degree in her native Colombia.

She's now a graduate research assistant in Carbon Capture and Storage at the Bureau of Economic Geology.

Grace Stanke is a nuclear engineering student at the University of Wisconsin who hopes to become a nuclear industry advocate.

She has an early start on that as Miss America 2023.

Next on "Energy Switch," we'll hear from students on the future of energy.

Welcome both of you, we're glad to have you here.

What does the younger generation think about energy and climate?

- I think everyone definitely knows of the term climate change but it's something that, you know, everyone has a different level of action.

For me personally, I want to be involved as a nuclear engineer and working in the energy industry.

But whatever it is, there's many ways to get involved.

- Right.

Now Shadya, you've been studying petroleum engineering.

- Yeah.

- A whole different field.

And what attracted you to that?

- Yeah, well, I learned some skills working as a petroleum engineer in the industry and I wanted to learn how to use those skills for a lower carbon solution and technologies.

I am studying now a Master's in Energy and Earth Resources.

I am working towards a lower carbon technology called carbon capture and storage.

So we want to capture CO2 emissions and store them in the subsurface.

- So capturing from an emitting stack or before combustion even, and then putting them back into the earth.

- Yeah, so it would have three phases.

It would be captured, transporting that to our sinks, and then injecting them into the subsurface.

- Doable?

- Doable, definitely doable.

We're working on that.

And there are a lot of major fossil fuel companies working to make this possible.

Already, some pilots that are working today.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- Yes.

- And you're pursuing nuclear engineering.

- I really fell in love with the nuclear industry as soon as I got involved because I realized how it exists all around us.

My dad is a big proponent of why I'm in nuclear now.

He actually went through cancer twice and he wouldn't be here today if it weren't for nuclear medicine and the treatments he received.

Which is something that's just really neat to see how it impacts the medicine world, but also our power industry.

It currently powers 20% of America, it's huge in the agriculture section, and it's in our daily lives.

- You don't have fear of nuclear, right?

- Well, it's a normal thing.

I mean like your radioactive, I'm radioactive.

I think the terms radioactive and like radiological sciences and anything with the word nuclear, people became afraid of.

Imagine the tremendous good that this technology can do if we acknowledge what nuclear is and how it can continue to help our society.

- Hm mm.

Shadya, what do young people you've met think about nuclear?

- People outside the energy industry, they think very different.

So the first thing that comes to their mind is not gonna be nuclear, it's a clean energy.

It's not gonna be that, it's gonna be fear.

Like, what's the potential risk of having a nuclear plant near where I live?

I think it's very important to acknowledge nuclear as a clean energy and as part of energy transition because we're gonna need to diversify our energy resources, and nuclear is a very important part of it.

- Yeah, absolutely.

- Yeah.

- How about people you visited with, Grace?

- I have so many people that when I talk about the energy industry, they bring up, you know, what about the waste?

What about, you know, the global accidents that have happened?

And that's where I have that opportunity to really talk about what happened during those incidents.

And also bring up that that's 50 years of global energy production and only three major accidents have happened.

And every single one of those has shaped our industry to now be one of the safest industries of energy production.

Which is just incredible.

The nuclear industry is the only form of power production that has to have a plan for their waste.

We are the only industry that has that, and we're starting to see that change in the fossil fuel industry, which I'm excited about.

But it's something that, you know, solar and wind don't have those plans.

And I think it is necessary for every form of energy production to have that waste management plan because every energy form has waste.

We just need to know what to do with it.

- Yeah, and you mentioned renewables.

What your generation think about wind and solar?

- I think everyone is really optimistic about wind and solar, which is really fascinating, because to me it's not a great source for base load power, you know, for that primary source of constant power that we need all the time when we plug our phones in every night, you know, charge our smart watches or use our computers.

Everything, right?

- Right.

- I mean, I'm from Wisconsin, we don't see the sun for much of the year when it's winter.

So, you know, things like that is where solar really falls short, when it snows and it covers up.

Same thing with wind.

You know, you don't have a constant reliable energy source for that to be constantly generating power.

And that's where, you know, fossil fuels and nuclear really serve as that base load source of power because we have that ability to not depend on the outside environment, but we're able to continue producing power day or night, increase output or decrease output, depending on if it's, you know, the winter, the cold of January, and you, you know, you see those utility bills go up during that time.

But then also, you know, vice versa on the spring when you've got your windows open, you're not using as much power.

- Yeah I mean, I'm hearing you describe almost a partnership between solar and wind and something else there.

Similar view?

- Oh yeah, I definitely think one of the drawbacks on solar wind would be storage.

How we can storage that energy and use it whenever we have peaks?

Which is where natural gas come to play an important role.

Because during peaks, we can just produce more energy from natural gas or other fossil fuels, right?

- Right.

- But at least in Colombia, solar energy has had a great impact in those remote places that we don't reach energy from the grid.

- Right.

And Shadya, you grew up in Columbia.

And lived in Saudi Arabia and other places.

How do your priorities differ from what we have and were raised with pretty reliable, affordable energy, full stop, you know?

How's it different?

- Yeah, definitely.

So I think energy consumption is connected to quality of life.

And quality of life here in the United States is very high.

But for countries like Latin America, like Colombia, is not necessarily, we don't want energy only because of quality of life but just for basic needs.

- Yes.

- You know when I was very small, we used to have blackouts sometimes.

They were short.

Not for days but few hours.

Right now we don't have that, at least where I am from, but we still have that in remote places.

[Scott] Okay.

- So in Colombia, we have three main issues, let's say, that we're trying to address.

One of them is the cost of energy.

We're still struggling with that.

Also, accessibility will be the second one.

- Right.

- And reliability.

We really need to work on that.

How expensive is it gonna be to make our grid broader and bigger, to be able to connect everything together or is it cheaper to just put solar farms, as we are already doing?

- Right.

Yeah, I think that's such an important piece of this is, there isn't this or this.

There's this gradation from literally nothing all the way through to what you might think of as a pretty well developed country but the energy is intermittent.

How does that play out?

- Well-- - How do we address that conflict in these different regions?

- Well, you know a lot of developing countries claim that for us to get there someday, we need to pass through all those fossil fuels that develop countries already burned in all these years.

Which I don't necessarily agree with because I think there could be a jump.

Developed countries are already developing these technologies for cleaner and lower emissions.

So we can start involving in our energy mix all these new technologies that we learn from them.

- What are some of those new lower emitting technologies?

- Well you know, Colombian government is very interested in hydrogen.

So I think that would be a part of the solution.

Hydrogen would help with that energy storage that renewables don't have right now.

- Okay.

- Another one is carbon capture and storage.

So natural gas is cheap, right?

It's low cost.

So if we have access to natural gas with lower emissions, we can improve that energy availability.

- Yeah, I mean, it's always, it's always gonna be a struggle and always gonna be a battle to find this balance.

But there's a really awesome part of developing this technology.

Even in the nuclear industry, I will fully acknowledge building a current nuclear power plant in the United States, a light-water reactor, is very expensive.

That's a reality.

But we've got so many incredible new technologies, like small modular reactors that are coming out, sooner rather than later.

And that's something that we can share that knowledge, we can communicate with these people all across the globe to help benefit everyone.

- Yes.

When we get to the other components, I mean, fossil fuels, the impacts of those I think are pretty well understood.

And it's not just CO2.

Do we learn as much about the full cycle impacts of other forms?

You think your generation gets that life cycle analysis or not?

- Not really, I wouldn't say that.

If you look at fossil fuels, they're looking at emissions.

If you see a renewables like solar and wind, they're looking at, okay, this doesn't have any CO2 emissions.

But maybe we don't have clear the full picture.

Which is, where are the minerals gonna come from?

How is the geopolitics gonna work where only certain countries in Africa, China, even Chile in South America have minerals necessary for this transition?

[Scott] Right.

- So I don't think that full picture is clear.

- I would fully agree with that because solar is something where it's like, okay, you know, not only are you going through the construction process, how much carbon emissions is being produced during that construction process, but also what are you sacrificing when you build that solar farm in a scenario?

You know, those giant solar fields, are we giving up farmland that we could be using to feed our population when instead we could have a nuclear power plant that's creating tons of energy?

You know one nuclear power plant powers 14% of my home state.

It's the questions like that where, you know, it's the economic analysis of what is the best benefit to use that for?

- Right.

Do young people know about hydrogen?

- I mean, I think people are definitely still learning about it.

Like for me personally, I didn't know about it until I went and worked for a nuclear power plant company and they said, "Hey, we've got this project."

So not only do you have nuclear energy being produced, but you have a hydrogen source as well.

And that's something that is just like eyeopening because we're at this point in time as a society where we're recognizing we need to use everything for everything it can provide, to be sustainable and to continue being good in that sense.

- How informed do you think young people are about energy and climate?

[chuckling] - Ahh.

- Not "or."

How do you see that?

- People are a lot more interested in climate than energy and there's no necessarily a connection between the two.

So people are worried that to have electric vehicles because they're gonna help environment, not necessarily they're thinking, where the electricity in my home comes from?

- Or where the batteries come from.

- Yeah, where the batteries come from, definitely.

- Oh yeah.

Where the minerals that you need to buy those.

[Scott] Right.

- If everyone here has an electric vehicle, how much of those are you gonna need?

[Scott] Right.

- I just want to add on to it.

It's a fascinating thing because I think people look at their personal lifestyles and their personal lives and how they live it.

If they don't see them personally producing waste or personally producing emissions, it's out of sight, out of mind.

- Correct.

- Right?

And that's where this discussion of thinking about the whole picture and talking about, you know, where are these minerals coming from?

Where is your power coming from for your home?

That's where that change really starts to be affected.

- Yes.

Yeah.

So a lot of education.

[Grace] Hm mm.

- A lot of education.

- Like years learning.

[chuckling] - If Greta Thunberg was here, how would she dialogue with the two of you right now in this conversation?

- Yeah, that's a tough one.

For me, it is important to educate on how every energy source plays a role.

For our generation growing up, with people like Greta growing up, listening to how important climate change is affecting our lives, our daily lives, I would say it's very urgent.

We want to take action now.

That's why we are studying what we are doing.

That's why we are working hard towards this because we want to make big scale impacts and we definitely want to develop technologies and we want to be part of that change.

- Right.

- Yeah, I mean, I would honestly probably start off with saying thank you because I feel like that is her main objective, is bringing awareness that climate change is an issue that needs to be addressed.

- Absolutely.

- But that opens the door for people like me, for people like Shadya to talk about energy specifically, to talk about our transportation industry specifically, to talk about these different forms of carbon emissions that are leading to climate change.

So we've got sort of different goals and we're a little bit more focused and narrowed, but it'd be a great opportunity to have a conversation with Greta Thunberg because maybe she can bring a little bit more focus to the energy industry then as well with her incredible platform.

[Scott] Yeah.

- Yes.

Definitely.

[Scott] I love that.

I love that thought.

How do we bring harmony?

How do we get some set of broader compromises to that dialogue?

- Oh gosh.

Yeah, I mean- - What can be done?

- This is wider than just energy, you know.

I feel like we've got such a highlight on the two extreme different viewpoints that despite the fact that, I would say the large majority of people fall in the middle, myself included, that voice isn't heard.

So if we continue amplifying that voice, that middle ground, and have good conversations that include listening and good discussions.

- Right.

How do you feel?

- Well actually, the program that I am right now, which is called Energy and Earth Resources, I think it's a great example of how to address this.

Because it combines a lot of different backgrounds of different professionals to prepare us for what's coming next on the energy transition.

So I mean, it's professionals in finance, economics, that's one part.

The other part is science and technology.

And the other part is policy.

We need to make sure that technology is low cost and effective.

After we have this both, then how are we gonna apply that countrywide, right?

That's where policies and laws come from.

So I think as part of the young generation that is involved in energy transition, I think all of us play a role in one of these three to make it happen.

- And to add on to that, I think it's having those important conversations and acknowledging it's not just nuclear.

You know, my ideal energy portfolio moving forward isn't 100% nuclear.

It involves everything.

And it takes a team to build that ideal energy portfolio.

- Tell me, what does sustainable mean?

Young people living less impactfully.

- I mean sustainable to me personally means using it for everything it has to offer.

You know, you have a resource, make sure you're using it to its fullest capability and getting as many benefits as you can out of it, while also being able to manage the waste in the same way of making sure it's not, you know, putting any harmful impacts on the planet or on people specifically.

Whether it's shorter showers or turning the lights off, or making sure that your dishwasher really is full before you run it.

It might be just being a part of sustainable fashion or things like that that can make a small difference but leads to a bigger impact.

It's a constant improvement and I think it'll be a struggle to finally reach a sustainable society per se but it's possible if we set our minds to it.

- Right.

Are we all willing to live more efficiently?

Let's just pick on the wealthy world first.

- I think every person has the perspective that my individual contribution is not enough.

So if I do it and no one else does it, is not even gonna count.

So I think it's very important for people to start increasing those individual contribution because it's part of the culture at the end.

- To add on to that, I think social media is something that's very powerful in providing that opportunity for people to connect and be leaders in this sustainable climate change shift.

And to show how they themselves are living their life and how easy it is.

You know, I think a lot of people find it to be, they think it's a difficult process, but that's one of the awesome things about social media, is we're able to use it for good and highlight those awesome things.

- Right.

So these intentions are good.

We're starting to see the movement.

How will y'all know when it's working?

- How do we know if it's working?

It's because, you know, there are policies that are supporting our ideas.

- Hm, that's a good one.

- When you see policy taking place and taking action, that's a huge step in the right direction.

However, what is that finish line?

That's a big question because this comes back to, we're never gonna achieve that perfect society but maybe it's possible, you know, when we are living sustainably, when all of a sudden other issues are the biggest issues, you know, maybe that's when we reach that finish line when we are in that point where we're able to focus on something else.

- Yeah.

Talk about it with nuclear a little bit.

We haven't built many new reactors in this country for a long time.

- Actually fun fact, two new reactors are opening up in Georgia.

- Right.

[Grace chuckles] True.

Is that a sign, if the U.S. starts to actually permit some of that?

- Yeah I mean, not even just on the fission front.

So there's two different sources of energy production in the nuclear industry.

One is fission, which is the breaking down of atoms, which that's what's used in our current nuclear power plants and in small modular reactors that will be added to our portfolio soon.

I hope, fingers cross.

There's a lot of movement on the policy side of things supporting SMRs, which is really exciting.

But there's also fusion, which is the building up of atoms.

That's what happens in our sun.

And actually one of the national labs, Lawrence Livermore National Lab, they just created the first net positive energy reaction from a fusion reaction.

And fusion, this is a fascinating subject but I don't know how much you would love to talk about this, but it's almost like, people call it the holy grail of the energy portfolio and the energy industry because it can be fueled by water and there's really little to no harmful outputs, which is just a wild, you know, a wild concept.

And maybe that's what the finish line looks like.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

What gives you hope?

- [laughing] Ooh, this is a very like deep philosophical question.

Boy, what gives me hope is, there's always progress to be made.

There's always improvement to be made.

There's always striving for perfection.

That's the beauty of humanity, is we hope.

Like that's what's awesome about us.

So I think it is a long road ahead, but we're on it and we're traveling.

- Yeah.

What gives you hope, Shadya?

- What gives me hope is seeing younger generation start being interested in cleaner energies.

So older generation were more interested in having energy at all.

For us, we can think, how can we make it better?

How can we have newer technologies and cleaner ones?

I think we're very hopeful in a cleaner world, and I think that's because it's in our hands.

So we're the ones shaping this energy transition.

- Right.

What would your ideal future look like with energy and climate?

And put some timeframes on it.

- For me personally, I would see nuclear as the major source of our base load power, right?

But then I'd like to see a mix of fossil fuels and hydroelectric and solar and wind after that.

Because I think that that's how we build that healthy energy portfolio.

And I think with nuclear specifically, you know, it's not like power plants are built overnight, but I think within 20 years, we could really achieve this ideal energy portfolio if we set our mind to it.

If we continue funding research and knowledge and learning for people all around us to help build that energy portfolio, to help fund, you know, carbon capture in terms of fossil fuel production and things like that.

- Right.

How about you, Shadya?

In terms of energy and climate, what is your ideal future look like and by when?

- I think in the next 30, 40 years, fossil fuels are gonna be still a very important percentage of this energy mix.

They're gonna be there with lower emissions.

But I think the industry that's gonna have more development is gonna be definitely renewables.

There's a lot of investment and interest.

So I think that's gonna be the fastest growing.

- Anything you want to say that we didn't get to?

Any thoughts that you'd like to make sure you share?

- As population grows, we're gonna need more energy and this problem is just gonna get bigger.

So I think it's important to acknowledge advantage and disadvantage of every different source, energy source that we have, get the most out of it.

And also as population grows, not only we grow as like quantity of people, but amount on quality of life.

The more generations we see, the better quality of life they have.

[Scott] Right.

- So this is another issue that we need to think about.

- And that takes a certain amount of energy.

For some quality of life, we can certainly bring ours down and still have our same quality life, but others have a long way to go.

- Yes.

- I love that thought, yeah.

How about you, any final thoughts that you're missing, Grace?

- I mean, I think the solution here to climate change is listening to people, being open to having minds changed.

It's always about learning and learning more about the industries around us and how they're working to create change and be a part of that change.

You know, I think it's been brought up multiple times that maybe there's a stereotype that fossil fuels are bad and nuclear is bad nowadays.

But taking the time to research, to learn, to ask questions.

I know tons of people in every industry would be more than happy to talk about what they do for their life's work for hours on end, myself included, right?

But that's something that is a really powerful resource, is each other.

And I think we need to start relying on that as we continue moving forward as a society and in this battle against climate change.

Not only for climate change, but for other issues as well.

There's a lot of power in listening and learning.

- Yeah, yeah.

That's terrific.

Terrific closing thought.

I'm Scott Tinker, "Energy Switch."

I heard from our students that their generation accepts nuclear as a reliable low-carbon energy source.

Though some remain fearful of nuclear in general.

They recognize that solar and wind are intermittent and need backup from other electricity generation or battery storage.

But overall, their opinions are positive.

However, they believe young people are more concerned about climate than energy and may not fully understand how they're related.

More thorough understanding of energy communicated without bias would help.

They see diverse young professionals working together to address these challenges.

And they see peers living with efficiency and conservation in mind.

They believe they can change the culture to prioritize these issues and spread the message through social media.

They're hopeful because their generation is passionate about creating a better future.

Listening to them makes me hopeful too.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ [Narrator] Funding for "Energy Switch" was provided in part by the University of Texas at Austin, leading research in energy and the environment for a better tomorrow.

What starts here changes the world.

And by EarthX, an international nonprofit working towards a more sustainable future.

See more at earthx.org.