♪ <Gavin> Welcome to This Week in South Carolina, I'm Gavin Jackson.

Schools across the state have welcomed students back into the classroom.

While COVID numbers continue to rise, especially among the young and unvaccinated student population, districts can not enact mandatory facemask requirements due to a budget proviso.

We speak with State Superintendent of Education Molly Spearman about this and more.

Superintendent of Education, Molly Spearman, thanks for joining me.

>> Thanks, Gavin.

Always good to be on your show.

>> Superintendent, teachers, staff, parents and students, they all managed to get through last year's school year, fairly well.

We were back in person five days a week.

They were wearing masks.

It seemed like that's where we we're going to pick up this school year, but that's not really the case.

Tell us the state of affairs right now in schools?

And how you see things progressing at this point?

<Molly> Yes, well, as of today, we have 12 districts that are virtual, temporary virtual is the way we're explaining it.

We're asking districts to evaluate or re-evaluate their situation every five days and announce to the community what they're going to do.

Very different from last year we're seeing spread in the schools, having to quarantine a high number of teachers, staff and students.

So very, very difficult situation that school folks are in right now.

>> Did you have higher hopes for how the school year was going to go?

You had a pretty good idea about how to do things last year, and then it got blown out essentially.

>> Absolutely, we really thought this year would be normal.

Unfortunately, the spread of the Delta variant hit us about the same time that schools started opening in early August, we had five districts to start that first week in August, and within a week, we saw that there were issues we are working very closely with DHEC.

Quite honestly, the standard for closing and making those decisions is varied across the state.

We're working with superintendents so we can get more uniform, on when a classroom should close, when a school should close so that we can keep the quarantine we can keep to a limit.

And we can keep 5-day instruction going on.

But we always like to say to the public, it depends.

You can give a percentage, but sometimes it matters.

Maybe it's the principal and the entire front office staff that is affected by COVID.

And obviously, it's very difficult to keep the school open.

So we can't always just use the numbers.

But we are working very closely with DHEC and school districts to help give them some good guidance on how decisions should be made.

>> So right now, is it pretty much at their discretion at this point?

>> Well, they have some information.

First of all, they're using the three positive cases within a classroom would alert you that you probably have a situation going on that you need to address.

By closing that classroom for a while.

Varied information from us, we're saying it really matters about the staff at the school.

Do you have enough staff in the school building to keep operations going.

So that's what we're encouraging districts to use that rather than just the quarantine numbers.

Now, obviously, if it gets up to high numbers, high 20 percentage, even 30% of your school population is absent with any infectious disease, we would advise them to look at some type of closure.

So, it is different.

We're trying to get all systems to use a similar formula.

But again, it does matter who is infected, not just numbers, >> It seems like a bit of a mess, at least for the students in this learning environment.

You do have these absences.

You have quarantines.

You have virtual.

You have in person, <Molly> It's very difficult.

It is very difficult.

I was just up in the Upstate this morning, in the Anderson County School District and they've been able to stay open.

So, it differs across the state for the spread.

I will tell you the school personnel, they want to be back five days a week.

They want to be in face to face.

It's easier for them that way.

So, don't think anybody's trying to purposefully send students home.

They're dealing with a very, very difficult situation.

We have bus drivers.

We already had a shortage of bus drivers, even with no COVID.

And then bus drivers are getting sick.

So, being able to transport the students to school and in some areas, the majority of the students do have to rely on bus transportation.

So that's another variable that the districts are having to work with.

<Gavin> Yeah, and those school buses.

That's the one and only place at this point that you can require students to wear a mask as well.

>> That's correct.

We're doing that under our federal transportation, or recommendations for those masks to be required there.

We are awaiting Supreme Court hearings.

We've had one ruling already.

There are other cases that are being heard and we anticipate to hear from those this week.

>> Superintendent, we'll talk about that more in a moment.

I want to ask you just, where does the blame fall at this point?

Is it lawmakers who are prohibiting your school districts from being able to put in mask mandates?

Is it parents are not sending kids to school with their masks on, because it's their responsibility at this point?

Is it the governor?

Where's the blame going?

<Molly> Well, I try not to point fingers.

I think it could be a combination of reasons.

For one, the Delta area is different than what we dealt with last year.

That's where the blame is.

I think that the lack or the resistance to getting vaccinated across South Carolina is the number one issue.

Masks help some.

Vaccinations help the most.

If we had a higher vaccination rate in the state.

I think all of us, whether we're vaccinated, or unvaccinated would be better protected.

So, I would put the blame on that.

We need people to go and get the vaccine.

<Gavin> If that's the case, too, I saw some reporting from the State newspaper that said, for the first six weeks of school being in session, 17 thousand children under the age of 10, have contracted the virus.

Unfortunately, we recently saw the passing of a fourth grader in Aiken from COVID-19.

There's kids in ICUs.

The Pediatric ICUs are getting full across the state.

Would you say that schools are safe right now?

Should we be shifting to virtual until we get a better grip on this Delta variant?

>> I think that the districts are trying to ensure that we are as safe as possible, certainly walking out into the grocery store, going to church, whatever playing on the softball team basketball team.

There's a risk there.

And our schools are not 100% safe.

They were not last year either.

But I do think we were able to keep things under control because of the variant, last year was not as transmissible.

We were using every possible mitigation tool that we had, We're not able to use the mask, I personally believe that they help.

I think the research shows that.

So I'm disappointed that we're not able to use every tool.

I will tell parents that schools are still doing a good job of the cleaning, of the social distancing, those things that matter, but the number one tool is vaccination.

And where we have children who cannot be vaccinated, it's even more important that the adults and the older students around them are vaccinated.

>> One of the reasons obviously, with the mask mandates situations, because of what the General Assembly did tacking in that proviso to the budget, how concerned were you when you saw those moves, and other moves we saw take place this past legislative session with, limiting the time virtual schools can be in session to help promote face to face instruction?

>> Yeah, I was a little worried when I saw that added to the budget, the no mask mandate.

But I will say at the time, who knew I mean, things were really looking good.

I took the mask mandate off of buses at that time, also.

So I can't point fingers at everyone else, but I have re-added that seeing how serious the situation is.

And I came out several weeks ago and asked the legislature to address this.

I hope that they will do that when they come back.

>> Did you worry about any schools being affected when it comes to funding when we talk about virtual schooling and the certain percentages the school can do online?

>> Well, I was concerned, the percentage number that was first proposed was at 1%.

So, we were able to negotiate and get that up to the 5%.

And most districts so far, Most districts have been able to work within that percentage, because again, we wanted children back.

We were working very closely with families, If their students were not successful last year with virtual, it was going to be a joint decision between the school and the family.

So there were many families who may have wanted virtual that it was not a good decision for their child due to the child being able to be successful.

But so far, most districts have said, we're working within the numbers.

Now, of course, there's more of their more folks who are wishing to go virtual now.

We'll have to look at that and see.

I will say these temporary virtual situations, I want folks to understand, those do not count in the 5%.

The 5% is for those families who sign up for long term virtual the entire semester or the entire year.

So districts are able to do this temporary virtual, but again, we cautioned them about this that they re-evaluate, they offer that five days a week, as soon as possible to hang on to make sure that we're complying with the law, but they do have to make these decisions at times when it comes to the health of the students who are in the school.

>> Yeah.

So still kind of little hamstrung there by the General Assembly, for sure.

Superintendent, any idea if you've seen more students actually, taking up the virtual school that you have offered, statewide.

Do we see more enrollment there, off the top of your head?

<Molly> Yes, the numbers are not quite as high as they were last year, as far as the virtual program offered by the Department of Education, virtual schools, and we have charter virtual schools, understand that their enrollment is holding, and that they do have students on a waiting list right now.

I think that those families were very pleased with the services that they received from the virtual school programming and they're continuing in that.

So, I look for that to continue to grow.

>> And, of course, to the General Assembly passed a law that said, if teachers are doing both in person and virtual teaching, that they're being compensated for both.

Are we seeing multiple cases of that, because of situations?

>> Yes, we are.

Much more than we envisioned.

We are working right now.

There have been some complaints of teachers saying, we're having to do this.

We're not getting paid.

But I don't think any district wants to be out of compliance.

It was just a misunderstanding about exactly what does it mean, to be teaching, synchronous teaching.

So we've worked last week, we met with all the superintendents.

We're working out those details, and we'll be watching very closely to ensure that is complied by with all the districts that any teacher who does additional work that way will receive compensation for it.

I'm just asking for a little patience.

I've talked with the two teacher professional groups and said, just give us a few days, we'll be getting this worked out because we are using it much more than we anticipated.

And is that just a teacher maybe in their classroom like this right now?

They have the students there, but they're also being virtual on ZOOM too, or is it something completely separate?

- >> Some of both of that.

It's really, if the teacher has to push a button and bring in students in virtually, then yes, that's considered the asynchronous teaching, so they need to be compensated.

<Gavin> Another cause to this pandemic, and of course, not taking the proper safety measures, causing cause to rise, of course, and safety and health.

As of our taping right now, Superintendent, you mentioned the State Supreme Court.

We heard that ruling with the City of Columbia mask mandate for schools that got thrown out, We're waiting on the ruling for this, which in two cases, they also heard the same day, You guys were a part of that suit.

Can you tell us what's your thoughts are about this suit and where you see this going?

>> Well, we will abide by whatever the Supreme Court says I have been very vocal that I think that this should be a decision made at the local level, with any infectious disease, whether it's COVID, or the flu, if an outbreak occurs, you need folks on the ground who can make the decision that is needed to be made in their community.

So I disagree with the state legislature mandating this, because they can't come back, if a decision needs to be made.

That's why anything dealing with a pandemic or emergency situation needs to be handled as quickly and at the closest level possible.

I hope that the court will rule in our favor.

However, we will comply with whatever the court says.

My job is to ensure that the law is met and we'll do that.

We do have another case dealing with special education students and their ability to be protected.

That will be heard as well.

So, there's a lot going on in the courts, right now.

<Gavin> There's no doubt, you have your hands full, never ending it seems like.

You mentioned that, when talking about special education students.

The U.S. Department of Education has also said that South Carolina is running afoul with its ability to provide a healthy school environment, specifically for those children with disabilities.

How do you react to that letter that we got from Secretary Cardona the other day?

>> Well, I think we had done our part in that we had previously sent out a memo to districts about two weeks ago, reminding them of this issue, that special education students do fall in a very special category and that precautions need to be made.

So, we have notified the school districts, and of course, working with them so that we can be in compliance.

I never like to be under investigation.

I like for us to be in good standing.

So, we're going to be working to get this cleared up as quickly as possible.

>> Could this jeopardize any federal funding - ?

<Molly> It could.

It could.

We don't want to go there.

I'll be doing everything I can to get this straightened out.

I want our special education students to be served.

We ask for their parents to be patient because this is a situation that we've never been through before.

Their students deserve special services, and we want to do that.

During last year, we sent out recommendations and allowed schools to bring those students in to bring teachers in when no one else was going to school so that they could receive their services.

So, I'm very, very concerned about this.

And we'll be working closely to be in compliance.

>> We have less than 10 minutes.

I want to talk about funding and report cards just came out too.

Are you concerned about how kids are doing right now?

We saw that learning loss situation happened last year because of the virtual, because of the in person the difference in learning instruction.

We got some report cards out that showed that things weren't really going that well.

How do you kind of mesh everything?

What did those report cards show in the year of assessment tests?

>> Well, I think everyone needs to understand that we had students who were behind.

They were struggling before the pandemic hit.

Again, I was in Anderson County today, met with Rotary Club members there.

There were school board members.

There were teachers.

There were principals there at the meeting, Most of their students did really well.

In fact, their graduation rate went up, because they were able to be in school.

Their virtual program worked really well.

I spoke with the principal of their virtual program.

He said amazingly, our kids did great.

We taught children how to read.

We had kindergarten virtually, and it went well.

The difference, as always, is the parental involvement, the resources that the families are able to give.

So there are some students who did very, very well, but on average, and with those students who were already struggling, they go home don't have access to the Internet.

We had to get hotspots out and even then it may not have worked very well.

They may be at home alone trying to struggle, trying to learn, listening to new instruction.

So those are the students that I worry the most about.

And they're the ones who did not - They struggled.

And those are the ones who are anywhere from three to four months, maybe even a year of learning that did not happen.

I don't like to call it learning loss, because they never had it.

They just did not get the instruction.

So here's what we're doing - Is that your next question?

<Gavin> Yeah, how do we fix this problem.

Yeah.

<Molly> So, it's a huge problem.

We're using our ESSER funding to address this accelerated learning.

First of all, we went through and looked at our standards, What are we requiring students to learn in third grade, fourth grade, we cannot teach everything that we were going to teach last year, and then also teach everything that needs to be taught this year.

We really had to look at what are the priorities, the basic standards that kids need to move forward.

So we have done that we continue to improve on listening for our teachers, and then matching up the resources that teachers need, the extra tutors that students need to work with them, and being sure that teachers are prepared with the right curriculum.

So, we've done curriculum audits, in our literacy project schools.

Those are the schools where at least 30% of their students are behind.

We're giving extra focus to those schools to work there, because they're the ones who really need that focus.

Now, I think all of us, the trauma of being in a pandemic, all of us have been affected, and certainly all students have been affected.

But academically, many students did fine.

Some never missed a day.

Some had the resources, parental support that they needed virtually to stay up.

But we're focusing our efforts on those students who did not have those luxuries, and really trying to accelerate their learning that goes through working on these priority standards, having the right resources, and then additional after school programs, and already planning for additional summer school programs for next year, Because we won't make up all of this in one year.

>> You've had some summer school activity over this past summer.

Did you see any improvements?

Is there any way to measure what we saw over this past summer?

>> Yes, we did.

I don't have the results of those assessments yet.

But by state law, we are assessing all students in the first 10 days in an interim assessment.

Many schools have the information.

We are in the process of collecting that now at the state level.

We will know.

We'll talk later and I can give you more specific information, But certainly there should have been some growth there.

If there's not, we got a big problem.

That's where we come in to work with the teachers to make sure that they are addressing those specific needs with the right strategies for struggling students.

>> You mentioned how you're using some of those ESSER funds to help with this, this learning loss to help really boost targeted learning.

Can you talk more about the 3 billion dollars that was slated, allocated to the state through these federal COVID funds and the plans that you've seen submitted to your agency and just where things stand right now in implementing those funds.

>> Yes, every district had to write a plan.

We have read those, in fact, many of those we have sent back to the district to go back to the drawing board, because we did not think that they met the standards that we needed to see there, in being specific on what they were going to do.

So districts are working on those now.

We want to see an alignment between what they plan to do and how they're spending their money, If that didn't align, they're getting a chance to rework that.

They've had a lot of work going on in schools right now.

So I don't say that to be detrimental.

But it's just so much for them to try to get done.

But we want it done well, because that we got one shot at this.

A lot of money coming in, it has to be spent well.

We are also making some changes that I think were necessary.

It took us a while to realize this, but you hear us talking about the science of reading.

We're looking at this because there's been a tremendous amount of support that's gone into Read to Succeed and our plans to help struggling readers.

The truth is, we have not gotten the bang for the buck.

We still have students who are not able to read on grade level after all that we've done.

And so we've come to the conclusion, maybe we need to change what we're doing.

And so we are giving professional development to our teachers' new curriculum, that focuses more on Phonics, and different ways that students learn how to read and preparing our teachers with those tools.

You would think they would have already learned that when they were in their higher ed programs.

Some teach many strategies.

And obviously, some don't do enough of that.

So, we're going to be working with our higher ed institutions, also, to make sure that our teachers know how to teach every child how to read.

And we have so many students in poverty, that we believe that they need a very strong phonics program.

>> We have less than three minutes left, Superintendent, but I want to ask you about that money that you're still approving, still seeing those plans go through the State Department of Education, itself.

It had about $211 million dollars I think that you guys have for programs.

You've rolled out two, so far.

What's the targeted nature of those programs?

>> Well, our target is on literacy, learning how to read giving better strategies, buying additional resources, doing professional development, with our teachers around the science of reading, a lot of math interventions as well.

In fact, our math scores, our students lagged and need acceleration in math, a little more than they do even in literacy.

So but 20% of our funding is going toward that literacy, emphasis, math emphasis, after school programming, additional time on tasks for students that are struggling, where COVID has had its greatest impact, we are working with the Arts Commission, as you know.

You saw that announced earlier, also with the South Carolina Alliance of After School Programming to get high quality interventions out in those areas where COVID has had its greatest impact.

We're reserving about 40 million, Gavin of personal burden that I have seen and witnessed as the disparity in school facilities across the state.

And so we need to upgrade some of our facilities COVID related problems, that some facilities have.

So you're going to be seeing some construction going on, renovations going on in our most disadvantaged neighborhoods.

<Gavin> Two questions with one minute left, but the first one Superintendent, do you see that money being able to use to help recruit any teachers or help, prevent this loss of teachers in the profession?

>> I hope so.

We will be announcing some special funding going to some of our most productive strategies, that we know recruiting teachers, not just any teachers, but we're looking also how to recruit more minority teachers into the field, particularly minority men.

So, we'll be making those announcements.

But absolutely, we've got a full package of interventions and recruiting teachers is one of those that we need to make sure some of those funds go to >> Last question, vaccine mandates, when can we expect to see those being rolled out?

>> No, there will be no mandate on vaccine.

However, you will see school districts implementing testing for teachers and possibly even their students.

If a school has to close down completely.

We got to get them back in and we can't require vaccines, but we can certainly require testing of all of our employees.

If you're vaccinated, you may not have to go through those steps.

If you're unvaccinated, you will.

Many districts are giving incentives, financial incentives to take the vaccine.

So I don't think you'll see a requirement.

However, you are going to see testing starting in the next few weeks, if it's not already in your school district.

<Gavin> Even with the full approval of the Pfizer vaccine, you can implement that in high schools for students to have those mandatory vaccines like you have other vaccines.

You don't see that happening?

>> Not at the moment.

No, I don't.

That would be a call from DHEC, not from the Department of Education, but we're certainly encouraging folks to get the vaccine.

<Gavin> So much to deal with.

So much to look forward to.

Glad we had a chance to catch up with you, Superintendent, because it is an ever evolving situation.

So, we'll be in touch in the future.

That's Superintendent of Education, Molly Spearman, Thank you so much.

>> Thank you, Gavin.

>> Stay up to date with the latest news throughout the week.

Check out the South Carolina Lede.

It's a podcast I host twice a week and you can find on South Carolinapublicradio.org or wherever you find podcasts.

For South Carolina ETV, I'm Gavin Jackson.

Be well, South Carolina ♪ ♪