- Welcome to Inland Edition where we have community conversations with people who make decisions that affect our everyday lives.

My name is Joe Richardson.

I'm a community member, an attorney, and your host.

And, today, we're going to chat with the person at the top of California's educational system.

He's the son of a teacher who immigrated from Panama and a soldier who died in the Vietnam War.

Tony Thurmond overcame childhood poverty to become the current California state superintendent of public instruction.

He's unapologetic, resilient and driven, and it's time for you to meet him.

[gentle upbeat music] ♪ ♪ ♪ - [Joe] Well, here we are!

State Superintendent of Public Instruction, Tony Thurmond.

Thank you so much for being here.

- Oh, thanks for having me.

- Tell me about your aha moment, and maybe there's several of them, that get you on the road to your path of what is a vast and longstanding public service.

- You know, it's my 16th year in elected politics, but I would say that the aha moment came in college.

- [Joe] Hmm.

- My buddy asked me to run for student government with him, which I wasn't really interested in, and we got elected.

I was the vice president, and then ultimately got elected student body president.

It was the first time that I believed that you could use politics to make a difference in the community.

- Mm hm.

- And, it would take 20 years before I would ever run for any office.

But, it was the moment when I knew that I would hope to have a chance to serve my community.

And, it's just been a great career and I'm just honored.

- Social worker, assemblymember, school board member, public school parent.

- Yeah.

- Tell me how they all converge in your job and inform what you do as a state superintendent of public instruction.

- Best part about being a social worker is doing lots of jobs and I spent a lot of time helping young people.

Young people who'd been in foster care, young people who'd been in the criminal justice system, helping people with developmental disabilities, doing neighborhood revitalization, making our communities better.

All these things were preparing me and training me for service in government.

And, as a former state legislator, I worked on a lot of bills that I was proud to help write them myself.

'Cause I'd worked almost every job you can think of.

It gave me just a body of work to draw upon to be a great advocate for our people.

And, I wouldn't change a thing.

You know, everyone always says you should do these things if you want to get elected.

But, to me there's no one path.

You know, you have to follow your own journey and build your own experiences.

And, the things that I've had the opportunity to do in serving my community have made it possible for me to serve the public.

And, I'm grateful for all those experiences.

- Tell us about what the state superintendent of public instruction actually does.

Give us our 101-- - Yeah.

- for those of us that don't know.

And, would it be oversimplifying to say that you're the "public school guy?"

- Well, I'm just a guy that gets blamed for anything that goes wrong with education!

(Joe laughs) I don't think most people understand the job because we have a thousand school districts, and each of those districts has its own superintendent and its own school board.

But, as a state superintendent, with my headquarters based in Sacramento, I'm able to fight for the people to get the resources that we need for books, for teachers and staff.

I get to work with the legislature and the governor every single day to make sure our schools have what we need and to set a vision so that every single student can get a great education.

You know, in my life, education's been everything.

I've had to overcome a lot of humble beginnings.

Growing up on the free lunch program, growing up on food stamps and government cheese, and times we flat out didn't have any food in my household.

Overcoming those challenges, there's been one constant for me, and that's education.

And, they help to turn things around for me.

And, I want that for all six million of our students.

So, as state superintendent, I get to be the number one advocate for our schools, to champion causes that get us "Universal Meals" for other hungry students, preschool for every three- and four-year-old.

And, to make sure we have 10,000 counselors to support the mental health needs of our students.

And so, it's a tremendous honor and I'm grateful to be able to serve the people of California.

- You said that there's a thousand school districts.

There's six million kids in public schools.

Tell us how you-- who you interface with and how in your job.

- Formally, there are 58 county superintendents who all run a local office of education.

I talk to a lot of them.

I talk to a lot of local school district superintendents and school board members, and, of course, legislators and the governor.

And, we work on educational policy.

But, informally, most of the constituents that I hear from, I meet in the grocery store.

- Hmm.

- And, they come up to me and they say, "Tony, can I talk to you?"

And, they say, "I've got an issue.

My student needs help."

I don't spend any time trying to explain to them how our system works.

I just take down their number and say, "Let me follow up with you and we'll get this done."

And, sometimes I think about it.

Of course, my family won't go to the grocery store with me 'cause I can't get through an aisle (Joe laughs) without getting stopped halfway through!

But, if that's the only way that someone has a chance to meet an elected official who works for them, I'm okay with that.

- I used to have a teacher in high school, in English, who used to always say, "Look for the dramatic irony of a story."

It seems this way-- - Huh.

Huh.

- but it's actually this way!

- Huh.

- Talk about any ironies that you have seen or surprises.

For all of the experience that you've had, maybe looking-- certainly looking at education through a window, doing things directly related to education.

Some of the things that you've picked up on-- - Mm.

- that have been things that have been surprising, or ironic or crazy.

- Um?

Let me think about the crazy!

(Joe laughs) but if I could start with a personal experience?

I grew up as a very quiet and shy student and was very uncomfortable with people constantly asking me why I'm so quiet.

And, there's some life circumstances.

I lost-- I lost my only parent to cancer when I was six years old; my mom.

- Gosh.

- My dad was a Vietnam vet who never came home from the war.

I was raised by my cousin who I met when I showed up on her doorstep for the very first time.

And so, starting out early on, I was trying to overcome trauma and difficult challenges.

And, it was hard for me to find my voice.

But, people kept coming to me and giving me responsibility.

They kept talking to me about the promise of education and what it would do for my life.

And, that promise has been kept.

And, along the way I found my voice.

And, I find myself in a job that has a big microphone to use to amplify the needs of other students who've been in similar situations to me.

And so, it is ironic that this quiet, shy kid trying to overcome adversity has been given the opportunity to be a voice for others; for parents who are looking for ways to be involved.

- In your job, you say, "We're going to fill in that gap "because this student may be, "statistically speaking, missing X, or Y, or Z."

Connect those dots for us in terms of what you find when you look at the profile of a student in the state of California.

- Well, we have great students, and I get to visit lots of schools.

And, what I see all the time are students who just have a hunger and a desire to learn.

They want an opportunity to know what's in their future.

They want to know how I got into my job.

They want to be able to talk about opportunities in just about every profession.

And, we have resources to ensure that every student can get on a pathway.

We call it Career Technical Education.

And, we talk about college and career.

We have ways to support any student on what they wanna do.

You know, there's so many jobs that we need to fill right now that will go unfilled unless we do more around computer science, cybersecurity.

You know, just where everything is going right now with artificial intelligence.

You know, students aren't gonna be working under the hood of a car if they wanna work on a car.

They have to know how to service the robots that help to build the car.

And, we have to make sure that we're providing them with that experience so that what they learn keeps up with where industry is going, and where the sector is going.

So, they're prepared to walk into those jobs.

But, our students have all the talent to do all the things that we need done to continue making California the leader of all states in our great nation.

- [Joe] Let's talk about virtual learning, because I saw this with my wife who is a speech therapist.

And so, she basically delivered services online when you really count on being able to provide those services directly and there being interaction between students.

And, there's an argument that there's no replacement for that.

- That's right.

- But, we needed to do virtual.

And so, here we are, couple, three years down the road, and most of us know what Zoom is, intimately, for better, for worse.

Talk about how we strike that balance-- - [Tony] Yeah.

- in terms of here's what we do better, here are the platforms that we have to help.

However, dealing with parents' concerns about wanting the option to be virtual-- - Yeah.

- or not.

Wanting to be back in classrooms.

How do you support that dichotomy?

- [Tony] Yeah.

- And, that balance-- - Yeah.

- given what we learned through COVID and what we did by necessity.

- Yeah.

Let me first just say there's no replacement for in-person instruction.

- Mm hm.

- And, we're social people.

We need to be connected.

And, we see how many were impacted by the loss of connection at a time when we couldn't be connected for public health reasons.

And, that we needed to keep everyone safe.

And so, thank you to your wife, and to all the teachers and classified staff who did all that they could to keep our students connected.

And, because of the way the pandemic, how coronavirus ebbed and flowed, there were times when we thought it was safe to be open for in-person instruction, and other times, when COVID rates would soar again, people would have to go back into remote learning.

And so, because we've had this experience, I think that we can use the technology to complement what we provide in in-person instruction.

Again, there's no way to place what a great teacher at the head of the classroom does for our students.

We can all think about great teachers in our lives.

You know, I often think back to my own experience struggling in mathematics, and I had a great teacher named Mrs. Harrell in high school who just said, "You're gonna get this."

And, she sat with me until I got it!

And, it was a lot of time (Joe chuckles) until I got it.

And, everyone can think of some teacher in their life who provided that.

And so, we'll never be able to replace that.

But, we can use technology to complement that and help prepare our students for great futures.

- How do you connect the dots to allow us to turn the corner as much as we can and show a future for the young folks using all of the things that California has that we can use to our advantage?

- Yeah.

One of the things I'm working on right now is 'how do we get more 'paid internships for our high school students so they can learn about career pathways?'

We call them-- we call it Career Technical Education.

That just means that they get on a pathway to learn about some career that they wouldn't know about until they've had an opportunity to do so.

We have to partner with industry and with the technological sector to make sure that what students learn in classroom is complemented by real-world knowledge and hands-on knowledge.

And so, if not, then we will fall behind because the technology is changing every single day.

Now, students are writing papers using ChatGPT.

They're writing papers as we speak!

Now, I'm not encouraging that!

Anybody who's watching this, I'm not encouraging you to use AI to write your paper, okay?

(Joe laughs) Do the work and when you need help, ask for help.

But, these are tools that can be used.

And, if we don't have access to those tools in the sector as they're being launched and developed, what we teach our students runs the risk of falling behind.

It's also difficult 'cause we don't have enough teachers who can teach computer science.

We need more engineers.

We need more folks with computer science backgrounds.

And, right now we're offering scholarships for anyone who wants to become a teacher, whether it be in computer science or bilingual education, early education.

Right now, we're offering a $20,000 scholarship to anyone in our state who would like to become a teacher or a counselor.

All you have to do is send a message to us at teachinca@cde.ca.gov and we'll walk you through the process of how to get access to the scholarship, to get a teaching credential or a counseling credential.

We have some undergraduate scholarships for those who want to become tutors or counselors as a way of working in a school.

And, they can get paid while they learn, and they get money to go to school as an undergraduate.

I would say that one of the biggest opportunities and challenges that we have right now in public education all across the country is to recruit the workforce.

- We are a leader.

California is a leader.

And, often we are a proving ground for things that other states will then follow suit and do themselves because they saw us do it.

So, what are those things that you are proud of and want California to do as leader so that they can be templates for the rest of the country?

- Very, very proud of how California is building back from the pandemic.

Every state has been impacted in the same way, but no other state has put forward the resources that California has.

As I said, I was a student who grew up on free lunch program, and we often didn't have food in my household.

It means a lot to me to be ensuring that every one of our students now can get two meals a day for free, regardless of their background or their neighborhood.

There are no paperwork requirements.

We call that Universal Meals.

And, that means anyone who wants a meal will be able to get those meals.

We have universal preschool in our state so that we can provide early education for every three- and four-year-old in our state.

This is something that many of us have worked on for decades that hasn't existed.

And now, California offers the resources to make this happen.

But, we have great challenges that we must work through to continue to be a leader.

We have got to keep the American dream alive and make housing affordable for anybody who wants it.

You know, I'm actually sponsoring a bill that would build affordable housing for school staff.

'Cause our school staff can't afford to live where they work.

And, by the way, we have to do that for all of our workforce.

For first responders, and nurses, and teachers, and classified staff, and folks in all sectors.

We've got to address the issues of homelessness, and crime and safety.

We've got to prepare our students for the jobs of tomorrow and make sure that everyone can earn a great living to be able to stay in this state.

That is a challenge that we face.

- [Joe] So, fill in the blank for me and if it's a long answer, that's perfectly fine!

(Tony laughs) "For all we have and for all we've done-- - Yes.

- "if I had X-- - Yeah.

- "we would really be able to maximize the potential of California students."

- Yeah.

- What are we missing?

- We have so many students who live in poverty who are impacted by homelessness.

There are 200,000 homeless students.

I think that number's probably higher.

It's difficult to get a count.

We need more resources from the federal government to support them.

And, we need a solution because the 8,000 homeless students who are on their own are at the greatest risk for becoming homeless adults.

I think in California we have to say that it's not okay for us to just step over people who are sleeping on the concrete or are living in a box.

I think that we have to say that's not okay and we have to find solutions that will work.

These are not easy issues to deal with but we have to say that we're not going to allow that to be part of our experience.

And, that we will make sure that someone who is homeless gets access to supportive housing and access to the mental health supports that they need.

We have to talk more about mental health.

And, I just wanna say for anyone who is looking for help, that there are resources 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

You can text or call this number: 988 to get help and get connected by a professional to someone who can help you with your mental health needs.

We have to have empathy for each other.

We're living in a time where we're seeing acts of hate rise all across our country.

You know, we have to make a statement that says, in California, we don't ban books.

That we want our students of color, and LGBTQ+ students and students from all backgrounds to have access to inclusive education because it's not "woke" education, as some have called it.

Inclusive education means that students do better academically and socially.

And so, I'm very proud of a bill that we are championing right now that would impose a fee on any district that bans a book.

Because I don't think that book banning is in the traditions of California.

We have to send a message to the rest of the country that we can have conversations even when we disagree.

We can disagree without being disagreeable, without there being violence, without there being acts of hate.

And, that our students are gonna be the better for it, 'cause we role model them-- for them how to talk about difficult issues.

And, we give them access to an inclusive education that reflects the beautiful diversity of our state.

It's one of the things that is so special about our state, is the diversity.

And, we can't allow anyone to invert that or to treat that as a negative 'cause it is a great positive.

You know?

Work from the heart.

Support each other so we can all have a great experience in this great state.

- I wanna talk about the Inland Empire.

We're in this area; we're in this county that is actually the biggest in landmass in the country, bigger than most states.

But, I gotta tell you, we often feel under-resourced and it's more than a notion.

So, tell us how, for folks here in the Inland Empire that wanna understand, how Tony Thurmond's work in Sacramento and his department affects us here in the Inland Empire in a real way.

And, how you see us.

- I think the Inland Empire is a special place.

And, I think as California grows, what we do in the Inland Empire can be an example of what we do for the rest of the state.

As you point out, the Inland Empire has great diversity of people, is one of the fastest growing regions of people.

In terms of population, probably some of the fastest growing population statistics anywhere in the country, in terms of growth.

And so, that's a tremendous opportunity to build on what's here.

You have universities, you have a medical school, you have great people, you have a great workforce, you have a great quality of life.

We have to build on that.

We have to create job sectors that allow people to earn a decent living where they can provide for themself and their families.

We have great schools here that focus on STEAM education, bilingual education.

We have to grow that.

During the pandemic, we worked to get computers and hotspots for many of the students and families here.

But, like any area, we have to make sure that we create job opportunities, we address poverty and inequity that exists.

I really do think, as goes the Inland Empire, so goes the rest of our state because of its size, the growth, and the diversity, and the tremendous opportunity that exists here.

- [Joe] You have an enormous responsibility.

I mean, that's a little bit of an understatement because education is so fundamental and it's so important.

I actually remember my mom telling me-- I asked her once, "Why do you always stay up with me and do homework and things like that?"

She said, "Because my mother couldn't read "and she couldn't help me.

And, I know how important this is."

What do you do in those inevitable tough moments to push through and to keep going?

- [Tony] I think about my grandparents and the sacrifices that they made for me and for my family.

My grandmother was born in Columbia and immigrated to Panama and got married as a teenager, had kids and cleaned people's houses to make a living.

She sacrificed to help her children have a better life, including my mom who became a teacher, ultimately.

I think about my cousin who worked as a nurse's aide while she raised me and my younger brother.

She didn't know us.

She took us in, kept us outta the streets.

Well, she kept us on lockdown!

But, she (Joe laughs) kept us out of harm's way.

And, she insisted that we get an education even when she didn't have a formal education.

I think about my dad who, while I didn't get to know him, served our country in Vietnam, and is decorated, and cared deeply about this country.

And that he, like me, a descendant of slaves who settled in places like Mississippi and Detroit, looking for the opportunity to live the American dream.

I think about soldiers who come from the Inland Empire.

I'm thinking about a soldier who was buried in the Riverside Cemetery named Mr. Acevedo, who is a World War II veteran who went to liberate the Jews and ended up serving in a prisoner camp of war.

Being a beacon of hope for other people who, to me is one of the great examples of people from the Inland Empire and in our history, that our students should know about who don't get the opportunity.

I think about those who sacrifice.

I think about those who went before me.

And so, yeah.

When I'm having a rough day, I think about people whose lives were on the line every single day, who made the ultimate sacrifice so that we can get an education and have a chance to earn a decent living.

And, I still have hope.

We have a lot of work to do, but I still have hope that we can build something that's better.

- So, if somebody wants to follow up, where do they go?

What's our follow up - Yeah.

- to find out more about what we've been talkin' about here today?

- They can always visit us on the California Department of Education website.

Lots of information about what's happening.

I'm happy to hear, you know, hit me up directly, tony@tonythurmond.com.

I'd love to get your email and hear from you.

You've already given us an opportunity to talk about these great scholarships that exist.

But, the process for how to become a teacher is complicated and we'd like an opportunity to explain it for folks and to make it easier.

And so, if part of the homework assignment could be just to get the word out about our one-stop way to help anyone who wants to become a counselor in our schools or a teacher at the teachinca@cde.ca.gov And then, I would add one more homework assignment that if you would do, and I know you are already doing this, is open up this beautiful studio to students to have a chance to come and learn even more about what it means to work in public broadcast.

So, they understand the importance of KVCR and what that means to the community, just to learn something that they wouldn't know about a career.

Our state has just given us, through a measure called Prop 28, has given us almost a billion dollars every year for arts and music education.

And, that's great.

But, if we don't create the opportunities for students to learn about every aspect of arts and music education, to see what it's like to work in a great studio like this, how do we prepare the next hosts and the next journalists who'll be doing-- conducting this interview?

And then, I would just say, if there's ever an opportunity for me to do something to promote public television or radio, to promote the work of the Inland Empire, or to support any of the students' families who are in the citizenry of the Inland Empire, to call on me, and the state superintendent will have your back.

- The State Superintendent of Public Instruction, Tony Thurmond.

Thank you so much.

- [Tony] Thank you.

- [Joe] And, I want to thank you guys for watching us on Inland Edition.

Thanks for going with us down the road to building a better community, one conversation at a time.

See ya next time.

[peaceful music] [singers vocalizing/ faster drums] [uplifting music and vocals] ♪ ♪ [softer music] ♪ [music fades]