ANNOUNCER: BRICK BY BRICK IS MADE POSSIBLE THANKS TO LEADING SUPPORT FROM: AND MANY MORE.

THANK YOU.

WE COULDN'T DO THIS WORK WITHOUT YOU.

THOMPSON: WHEN THE DEMAND FOR HOUSING REMAINS HIGH, THERE'S BOTH A SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC INCENTIVE TO INCREASE THE SUPPLY OF HOMES TO MEET THE NEED.

ACKERMAN: I THINK ALL TYPES ARE NEEDED BECAUSE ANY TYPE OF HOUSING FREES UP, MOST LIKELY, ANOTHER HOUSE FOR SOMEONE ELSE.

THOMPSON: IN CITIES LIKE CINCINNATI AND DAYTON, THERE'S NATURALLY A LIMITED AMOUNT OF LAND THAT'S READY TO DEVELOP FOR NEW HOUSING OR GOVERNMENT MONEY TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.

SO THE FOCUS NOW IS ON BUILDING STRATEGICALLY, REMOVING BLIGHT TO STABILIZE NEIGHBORHOODS, AND WORKING TO FILL IN VACANT LOTS WITH MIDDLE HOUSING AND APARTMENTS.

SEGER: THERE WAS A TIME WHEN APARTMENTS OR RENTALS WERE KIND OF A DIRTY WORD.

IT'S NOT THE CASE ANYMORE.

THOMPSON: TODAY, ON BRICK BY BRICK, WE'RE LOOKING AT DIFFERENT HOUSING TYPES AS SUPPLY SIDE SOLUTIONS.

WHICH TYPES ARE THE MOST AFFORDABLE, MOST EFFICIENT TO BUILD, AND MOST IMPACTFUL, AND HOW CAN CITIES HELP SCALE IT UP?

DICKSTEIN: WE'RE TRYING TO REMOVE BARRIERS SO DEVELOPERS CAN GO FASTER.

WE'VE GOT TO GET HOUSING UNDERWAY ACROSS THIS COUNTRY VERY FAST.

THOMPSON: LET'S GET INTO IT.

THIS IS BRICK BY BRICK; SOLUTIONS FOR A THRIVING COMMUNITY.

WE'RE FOCUSED ON THE SUPPLY SIDE OF THE EQUATION TODAY, BECAUSE THE OVERALL NEED AND DEMAND FOR BROADLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING TO RENT OR OWN IS NOT GOING AWAY.

WHILE HOMES ARE SITTING ON THE MARKET A BIT LONGER THAN THEY DID LAST YEAR, INVENTORY IS STILL A CHALLENGE IF THE GOAL IS DRIVING DOWN PRICES.

WELCOME TO BRICK BY BRICK.

I'M YOUR HOST, ANNE THOMPSON.

WHILE PRICES AND AVAILABILITY VARY BY LOCATION, IT'S GOOD TO GROUND OUR DISCUSSION IN THE FACT THAT OUR REGION CONTINUES TO BE, ON THE WHOLE, ONE OF THE MORE AFFORDABLE PLACES TO LIVE OR RENT IN THE COUNTRY.

THAT SAID, PRICES HAVE GONE UP AND WAGES HAVEN'T KEPT UP.

SO MANY OF OUR NEIGHBORS DON'T HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO THRIVE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT ALL, OR THEY'RE COST BURDENED BY THEIR HOUSING.

THAT'S WHEN A HOUSEHOLD SPENDS MORE THAN 30% OF ITS INCOME ON HOUSING COSTS, LEAVING LITTLE LEFT OVER AFTER ESSENTIALS AND OTHER COSTS OF LIVING.

IT FORCES FAMILIES TO MAKE HARD CHOICES ON WHAT BILLS THEY CAN AFFORD TO PAY MONTH TO MONTH, MUCH LESS EVER FEELING LIKE THEY CAN GET AHEAD.

WITH A REPORTED NEED FOR THOUSANDS MORE AFFORDABLE UNITS IN OUR METRICS AND SURROUNDING COUNTIES, IT MAKES SENSE THEN, THAT COMMUNITIES ARE TRYING TO DO WHAT THEY CAN TO SPARK MORE HOME BUILDING, MORE RENOVATIONS, AND MORE CONVERSIONS.

PUREVAL: WHEN WE THINK ABOUT HOW TO BUILD A MORE PROSPEROUS, EQUITABLE CINCINNATI, A BROKEN AND ANTIQUATED ZONING CODE, GUYS, IS A MASSIVE BARRIER.

THIS IS SOMETHING MANY OF YOU UNDERSTAND, BUT HOUSING IS A FOUNDATIONAL PART OF WHETHER OR NOT WE'RE LIVING UP TO OUR POTENTIAL AS A COMMUNITY.

THOMPSON: THAT'S CINCINNATI MAYOR AFTAB PUREVAL ADDRESSING RESIDENTS AND STAKEHOLDERS AT THE EQUITABLE NEIGHBORHOOD SUMMIT BACK IN THE SPRING.

SINCE THEN, HE AND CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS HAVE MOVED FORWARD, PASSING THE CONNECTED COMMUNITIES INITIATIVE, WHICH RELAXES RULES FOR BUILDING TWO, THREE AND FOUR FAMILY DWELLINGS FOR MIDDLE HOUSING, AS WELL AS LARGER MULTIFAMILY HOUSING, SPECIFICALLY NEAR NEIGHBORHOOD BUSINESS DISTRICTS AND TRANSIT CORRIDORS.

IT ALSO REDUCES PARKING REQUIREMENTS MORE BROADLY.

THE INTENT IS TO THICKEN UP NEIGHBORHOODS IN A WAY THAT HELPS SUPPORT MORE HOUSING, ECONOMIC GROWTH AND THE TRANSIT SYSTEM, WHILE ALSO STILL ALLOWING FOR SINGLE FAMILY ONLY AREAS.

THIS IS CREATING OPPORTUNITIES FOR MIDDLE HOUSING AND APARTMENT DEVELOPERS, WHICH WE'LL GET INTO A BIT.

MEANWHILE, DAYTON ALSO FACES A NEED FOR MORE QUALITY AND DEEPLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

DICKSTEIN: WE NEED MARKET RATE, WE NEED WORKING OR AFFORDABLE HOUSING, AND WE NEED SUBSIDIZED HOUSING.

THOSE ARE REALLY BIG NEEDS.

AND ON TOP OF THAT, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE BIGGEST PRIORITIES FOR THE CITY COMMISSION IS DEMOLITION OF ALL OF THE BLIGHTED HOUSING THAT'S BEEN URBANLY MINED.

THOMPSON: DAYTON CITY MANAGER SHELLEY DICKSTEIN SAYS THAT WILL MAKE WAY FOR NEW HOUSING EVENTUALLY.

FOLLOWING A MULTIYEAR HOUSING NEEDS ASSESSMENT, GEM CITY LEADERS ARE MOVING INCREMENTALLY TO CREATE HEALTHIER NEIGHBORHOODS AND ENCOURAGE MORE QUALITY HOUSING.

RIGHT NOW, DAYTON'S USING AMERICAN RECOVERY ACT MONEY, ALONG WITH OTHER STATE FUNDS TO STABILIZE NEIGHBORHOODS.

DICKSTEIN: WE GOT $138 MILLION OF ARPA, $18 MILLION OF IT WAS DEDICATED TO HOUSING, HOUSING REHAB OR NEW CONSTRUCTION.

AND SO THERE ARE MULTIPLE PROJECTS ACROSS THE CITY WHERE WE HAVE NEW APARTMENTS BEING BROUGHT ON THAT ARE OF MARKET OR AFFORDABLE.

THOMPSON: DAYTON IS ALSO PARTNERING WITH AGENCIES LIKE THE MONTGOMERY COUNTY LAND BANK AND WORKING TO REMOVE THE BLIGHT OF VACANT PROPERTIES, ONE DEMOLITION AT A TIME TO MAKE ROOM FOR THE NEXT INCREMENTAL DEVELOPMENT.

DICKSTEIN: WE HAVE A PLAN, FIVE YEAR PLAN, AND WE'RE IN YEAR THREE TO REMOVE ABOUT 1100 BLIGHTED STRUCTURES.

NOBODY WANTS TO HAVE AN EYESORE IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD, AND SOME OF OUR RESIDENTS HAVE HAD TO LIVE FOR YEARS NEXT TO THESE BLIGHTED STRUCTURES.

AND SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PERCEPTION OF SAFETY, FOR STABILIZING NEIGHBORHOODS, AND FOR CREATING OPPORTUNITIES FOR NEW INVESTMENT TO COME ONTO THE SCENE.

THOMPSON: WHILE WORK ON BLIGHT IS TAKING PLACE ALL AROUND THE CITY, MUCH OF THE EFFORT HAS BEEN FOCUSED ON HISTORICALLY DISINVESTED NEIGHBORHOODS IN WEST AND EAST DAYTON.

WHILE THOSE PROACTIVE STANCES BY OUR CITIES WILL HOPEFULLY ENABLE MORE HOUSING, THE QUESTION REMAINS WHAT TYPES MIGHT BEST HELP US MEET THE NEED FOR MOST INCOME LEVELS, WHILE ALSO RECOGNIZING THAT THE GREATEST NEED FOR OUR CITIES IS DEEPLY AFFORDABLE OR SUBSIDIZED HOUSING FOR THOSE MAKING BELOW AREA MEDIAN INCOMES.

FOR TODAY'S SURVEY, LET'S BEGIN WITH A STARTER HOME, WHICH HAS EVOLVED SINCE ITS HEYDAY IN THE MID TO LATE 20TH CENTURY DUE TO ECONOMIC FORCES.

WHETHER IT'S BRAND NEW OR RESALE, SALES AGENTS WE'VE SPOKEN WITH SAY WHAT ONCE COST $100,000 OR LESS IS NOW $200,000 OR MORE.

DEVELOPER AND FORMER HOME BUILDER ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT T.J. ACKERMAN SAYS THE LACK OF NEW, AFFORDABLE STARTER HOMES IS DUE TO A SLEW OF FACTORS, SUCH AS THE COST TO BUILD, THE COST OF LAND, AND THE LIMITS OF ZONING.

ACKERMAN: SO THE STARTER HOME HAS GOTTEN MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE TO BUILD, AND WE'RE SEEING IMPACTS ON OUR SIDE AS BUILDERS AND DEVELOPERS IN TERMS OF REGULATION COSTS, ZONING BEING MORE DIFFICULT TO SECURE AND ZONING BEING A LOT MORE RESTRICTIVE.

IN THE PAST WE WERE ABLE TO HAVE THREE, FOUR HOMES PER ACRE.

NOW, WE FEEL FORTUNATE IF WE CAN GET TWO HOMES PER ACRE.

THOMPSON: ON THE MATERIAL SIDE, WHILE LUMBER PRICES MAY HAVE STABILIZED AGAIN, CAUSE FOR OTHER THINGS LIKE DRYWALL AND CEMENT, WHICH STARTED INCREASING EVEN BEFORE THE PANDEMIC, HAVE NOT REALLY COME BACK DOWN.

ADD TO THAT THE COST TO GET THROUGH THE APPROVAL PROCESS AND FOR BUILDERS TO BORROW FROM BANKS, JUST LIKE HOMEBUYERS, IS MAKING THE NUMBERS HARDER TO WORK OUT.

IN WHOLE, IT MAKES THE PROPOSITION TO BUILD AND SELL AFFORDABLY NOT VERY AFFORDABLE.

ANOTHER PART OF THE EQUATION IS THE COST OF THE LAND, EVEN BEFORE YOU BUILD.

AS BRICK BY BRICK'S HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR. FOUND OUT, THE MATH MAY NOT WORK AS WELL WITHIN CITIES AS IT ONCE DID, WHICH MEANS FOR NOW, YOU MAY HAVE TO LOOK OUTSIDE OF CITIES FOR THIS HOUSING OPTION.

[MUSIC] LAGUERRE: THIS IS HOW THE COUPLE, BRENDA KOSH AND JIM STEGMAN SPEND THEIR DOWNTIME.

THEY ARE BOTH WIDOWED AND RETIRED AND ARE LOOKING TO GROW OLD TOGETHER IN THE NEW NEIGHBORHOOD DEVELOPMENT OF HARVEST MEADOWS IN CLERMONT COUNTY.

BRENDA TELLS ME.

KOSH: WE FOUND THAT HOUSES THAT WERE ALREADY BUILT WERE AS EXPENSIVE OR MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE FISHER HOMES HERE AT HARVEST MEADOWS.

SO, SO WHY NOT HAVE A NEW HOUSE?

LAGUERRE: HARVEST MEADOWS IS A VIBRANT NEW NEIGHBORHOOD IN BATAVIA, OHIO, 30 MINUTES EAST OF CINCINNATI.

FISHER HOMES IS HANDLING THIS DEVELOPMENT THAT WILL SEE UP TO 400 HOME SITES IN THE NEXT 4 TO 5 YEARS.

FISHER OFFERS 16 FLOOR PLANS, RANGING FROM 1200 TO 3100 SQUARE FEET.

THEY OFFER SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, PAIRED PATIO HOMES, MULTI-LEVEL OR, IN THE CASE OF BRENDA AND JIM, JIM SHARES THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A SMALLER FOOTPRINT.

STEGEMAN: IT WAS ALL ABOUT DOWNSIZING, SMALLER HOUSE TO TAKE CARE OF, SMALLER YARD TO TAKE CARE OF, NO STAIRS.

SOMETHING THAT NOW WE CAN, YOU KNOW, EASILY MAKE OUR OWN.

LAGUERRE: AND THE NEIGHBORHOOD ISN'T JUST FOR RETIREES.

KOSH: COME ON IN.

WE'RE JUST GETTING OUR MICS ON.

STEGEMAN: COME ON IN, TYLER.

LAGUERRE: BEFORE THE INTERVIEW, BRENDA AND JIM INVITED THEIR NEIGHBOR, TYLER ERWIN.

HE LIVES A COUPLE DOORS DOWN, AND HE SHARED WITH ME WHY HE AND HIS WIFE DECIDED TO MOVE THEIR YOUNG FAMILY TO HARVEST MEADOWS.

ERWIN: WE HAD A SMALLER HOME, IT WAS A STARTER HOME THAT WE HAD PURCHASED WHEN WE WERE NEWLY MARRIED.

IT HAD JUST GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE WE HAD OUTGREW IT.

WE NEEDED A MUCH BIGGER HOME.

WHEN WE WERE STARTING TO LOOK, AND I WAS GETTING ON ZILLOW AND THE INTERNET, HOMES WERE JUST ASTRONOMICALLY MORE EXPENSIVE.

YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU'RE A NEWLY MARRIED YOUNG COUPLE, NO KIDS, LESS RESPONSIBILITY, YOU CAN TAKE YOUR TIME.

YOU CAN LOOK AT A BUNCH OF HOUSES AND CHOOSE ONE THAT'S PERFECT.

WHEREAS IN THIS INSTANCE WE'RE LIKE, "HEY, IT'S NOW OR NEVER," BECAUSE WE DON'T WANT OUR BABIES TO BE LIKE IN LIMBO AND NOT HAVE A PLACE TO CALL HOME.

LAGUERRE: ALTHOUGH JIM AND BRENDA ARE AT A DIFFERENT PART OF THEIR HOUSING JOURNEY IN COMPARISON TO TYLER, THEY BOTH WERE ATTRACTED TO HARVEST MEADOWS FOR THE SAME REASON.

WHAT WOULD YOU SAY WERE THE INCENTIVES THAT ATTRACTED YOU TO MAKE THE DECISION HERE?

STEGEMAN: IT HAS TO BE -- KOSH: THE PRICE AND TAX ABATEMENT.

ERWIN: WHAT REALLY DROVE US HERE WAS, ONCE AGAIN, I GREW UP ON THE EAST SIDE, SO I WAS FAMILIAR WITH BATAVIA.

I DIDN'T LIVE HERE, BUT FAMILIAR, AND THE TAX ABATEMENT.

LAGUERRE: WHAT'S THE DEAL WITH THIS TAX ABATEMENT?

CARRIE IDDINGS FROM FISHER HOLMES EXPLAINS.

IDDINGS: THERE'S A 15 YEAR TAX ABATEMENT IN THIS PARTICULAR COMMUNITY.

SO THAT WAS THROUGH THE VILLAGE OF BATAVIA.

YOU'RE ONLY PAYING TAXES ON THE LAND, SO NOT ON THE PROPERTY ITSELF.

SO THAT'S A HUGE SAVINGS.

WE'RE SEEING A LOT OF FIRST TIME HOME BUYERS IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD.

WE ALSO HAVE SEEN A LOT OF EMPTY NESTERS MOVE INTO THIS COMMUNITY AS WELL.

SO HAVING THAT SAVINGS OVER 15 YEARS, PLUS ANY ADDITIONAL FINANCING OFFERS THAT WE INCLUDE, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT AS ATTRACTIVE AS POSSIBLE.

LAGUERRE: AND HOME BUYERS AND HOME BUILDERS ALIKE ARE GRAVITATING TOWARDS CLERMONT BECAUSE OF THE INCENTIVES, LEADING TO MORE DEVELOPMENT IN THE COUNTY.

I KNOW THE ZONING LAWS REALLY HAVE ALLOWED FOR FISHER TO HAVE THAT FLEXIBILITY.

IF YOU COULD TALK ABOUT THE FLEXIBILITY THAT ALLOWS FOR NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE HARVEST MEADOWS.

IDDINGS: WE WERE ABLE TO ZONE FOR SMALLER HOME SITES AND THEREFORE PASS ALONG THAT SAVINGS ON THE LAND TO THE HOMEOWNER.

SO WE'RE ABLE TO OFFER MORE FLOOR PLANS OR AMENITIES AND THINGS LIKE THAT IN THIS PARTICULAR COMMUNITY.

LAGUERRE: AND THE NEED FOR MORE HOUSING IS THERE.

AND WITH THE RIGHT INCENTIVES, IF YOU BUILD, HOME BUYERS WILL COME.

ERWIN: WE PROBABLY WOULDN'T HAVE CHOSEN BATAVIA IN A VACUUM, BUT GIVEN THE ENTRY LEVEL COST OF A HOME, THE ABATEMENT, WE FELT LIKE IT WAS A LITTLE BIT OF A SACRIFICE TO MAKE ON LOCATION, BUT A WORTHY SACRIFICE.

LAGUERRE: PLUS THE EXTRA SAVINGS GIVES MORE FLEXIBILITY TO HOME BUYERS LOOKING TO DO WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.

KOSH: SO FUN.

THOMPSON: BACK HERE IN THE STUDIO WITH MULTIMEDIA JOURNALIST HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR.

THANKS FOR THAT, HERNZ.

THAT AREA IS REALLY GROWING.

LAGUERRE: YEAH, IT DEFINITELY IS.

THOMPSON: ONE THING I NOTICED IS THAT EVEN THOUGH JIM AND BRENDA AND TYLER AND HIS FAMILY ARE IN DIFFERENT POINTS OF THEIR HOUSING JOURNEY, THEY ALL MOVED TO HARVEST MEADOWS BECAUSE OF THE TAX ABATEMENT.

LAGUERRE: YEAH, YOU KNOW, I'M GLAD THAT WE WERE ABLE TO CAPTURE THESE TWO DIFFERENT GENERATIONS, THESE TWO POINTS OF THE HOUSING JOURNEY, LIKE YOU SAID, BECAUSE I THINK IT SHOWCASES ONE THING THAT WE CAN ALL AGREE UPON, THAT MAJORITY OF HOMEOWNERS AND MAJORITY OF AMERICANS, QUITE FRANKLY, ARE ALL TRYING TO DO ONE THING: SAVE A DOLLAR, RIGHT?

YOU KNOW, THE SUBTITLE OF THIS SHOW IS CALLED SOLUTIONS FOR A THRIVING COMMUNITY.

AND I THINK A PART OF THRIVING IS BEING ABLE TO ENJOY YOUR RETIREMENT, LIKE JIM AND BRENDA, AND GO TO MULTIPLE PLACES THAT YOU'VE ALWAYS DREAMED OF, OR TO BE ABLE TO RAISE YOUR YOUNG FAMILY LIKE TYLER, IN AN AREA THAT HAS RESOURCES AND AMENITIES FOR YOU TO GROW YOUR FAMILY.

I THINK HARVEST MEADOWS GIVES THOSE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE AT DIFFERENT POINTS OF THEIR HOUSING JOURNEY.

THOMPSON: MAKES SENSE.

THANKS FOR THAT, HERNZ.

LAGUERRE: NO PROBLEM.

THOMPSON: FROM THE STARTER HOME, LET'S MOVE TO THE NEXT INCREMENTAL STAGE UP, MIDDLE HOUSING.

THESE ARE YOUR TWO, THREE AND FOUR FAMILY HOMES, AS WELL AS ATTACHED SINGLE FAMILY UNITS LIKE ROW OR TOWNHOMES.

TYPICALLY, THESE BUILDINGS ARE AN EFFICIENT WAY TO FIT MORE UNITS ON THE SAME AMOUNT OF SPACE ALLOTTED TO A SINGLE FAMILY HOME.

SINCE OLDER VERSIONS OF THE TYPE OF HOUSING ARE ALL OVER OUR CITIES, YOU MAY NOT KNOW THAT THEY'VE BEEN BANNED SINCE THE 1960S IN CINCINNATI IN MOST SINGLE FAMILY ONLY ZONES.

IN DAYTON, ZONING CHANGES WERE MADE BACK IN 2006 TO ALLOW FOR DUPLEXES, ROW AND TOWNHOMES IN TRADITIONAL SINGLE FAMILY ZONES, AS WELL AS SOME APARTMENTS, A FAIRLY PROGRESSIVE MOVE AT THE TIME.

CINCINNATI'S BIG PUSH FOR ZONING REFORM EARLIER IN 2024 HIGHLIGHTED THE NEED FOR MORE OF THIS TYPE OF HOUSING, ESPECIALLY NEAR NEIGHBORHOOD BUSINESS DISTRICTS AND KEY TRANSIT CORRIDORS.

YOU CAN SEE THE NEW OVERLAID RULES WHEN NAVIGATING THE CITY'S INTERACTIVE ZONING MAPS ONLINE.

ALONG WITH OPENING UP A LARGE PORTION OF THE CITY TO NEW TYPES OF HOUSING, THE RULE CHANGES ALSO INCLUDED ELIMINATING OR REDUCING PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR NEW OR REMODELED BUILDINGS OF CERTAIN SIZES, WHICH MAY REDUCE THE COST TO DEVELOP HOUSING OR MIXED USE PROJECTS.

ELIMINATING DENSITY RESTRICTIONS AND PROVIDING HEIGHT BONUSES TO INCREASE DENSITY WHERE POSSIBLE AND APPROPRIATE.

AND WHILE CONNECTED COMMUNITIES DOESN'T TACKLE SUBSIDIZED AFFORDABLE HOUSING HEAD ON, IT REMAINS THE BIGGEST NEED IN OUR CITIES RIGHT NOW.

RECOGNIZING THIS, THE REFORMS ARE RELAXING RULES AND RESTRICTIONS TO STREAMLINE CITY SUPPORT FOR ANY PROJECT THAT INCORPORATES OR QUALIFIES FOR LOW INCOME HOUSING TAX CREDITS.

OF COURSE, MIDDLE HOUSING COULD ALSO INCLUDE INCOME RESTRICTED UNITS, THOUGH MAKING THE MATH WORK ON THAT FRONT COULD BE A CHALLENGE INITIALLY.

MIDDLE HOUSING DEVELOPER KAI LEWARS, PRINCIPAL AT KAIKER DEVELOPMENT, SAYS HE AND OTHER INCREMENTAL DEVELOPERS ARE ALREADY TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITIES PRESENTED BY CONNECTED COMMUNITIES TO CREATE MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR MIDDLE INCOME HOUSEHOLDS.

LEWARS: WE'RE WORKING ON SEVERAL DEVELOPMENTS IN DIFFERENT COMMUNITIES, SCATTERED SITE, NEW CONSTRUCTION DEVELOPMENTS WHERE COMMUNITIES ARE GOING TO SEE A GREAT EFFECT BY CONNECTED COMMUNITIES REALLY OVERCOMING SOME OF THE MIDDLE HOUSING NEEDS AND THINGS THAT WERE RED TAPE.

IT'S NOT ALL SOLVES ALL, SO LET'S START THERE.

BUT IT DEFINITELY HELPS SOOTHE SOME OF THE PAINS IN TRYING TO BUILD NEW AND HAVE SOME ECONOMIES OF SCALE.

THOMPSON: KAIKER HAS ALREADY ADDED A SET OF ROWHOMES IN AVONDALE AS PART OF A PHASE ONE DEVELOPMENT ON HALE AVENUE, AND WILL BE ADDING EVEN MORE AS PART OF A PHASE TWO MOVING FORWARD.

HE SEES THESE PROJECTS AS FITTING NICELY WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOODS AND HELPING TO STABILIZE SURROUNDING PROPERTY VALUES WHILE ALLOWING FOR MORE OPTIONS.

LEWARS: I KNOW WHAT AFFORDABLE HOUSING DID FOR MYSELF AND MY FAMILY, AND WHAT I HOPE IT DOES FOR FUTURE GENERATIONS.

IF I CAN CREATE THAT FOR OTHERS AND REALLY HELP REVITALIZE THESE COMMUNITIES THAT HAVE SET RELATIVELY DORMANT WITH VACANT PARCELS, WHERE IT COULD ACTUALLY HAVE A TRUE HOME THAT COULD HOUSE PEOPLE, THEN ALL THE BETTER.

THOMPSON: WHILE THEY ARE SEEING THE BENEFITS OF THIS NEW HOUSING TYPE, LEWARS RECOGNIZES MAKING A LASTING CHANGE WILL STILL TAKE TIME.

LEWARS: WHAT I WILL SAY IS EXPECT IT TO BE A DIMMER, NOT A LIGHT SWITCH, RIGHT?

THINGS LIKE THIS TAKE TIME, AND TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, TO THE COMMUNITY'S BENEFIT, YOU WANT IT TO TAKE TIME.

WHAT I WOULD TIME IT TO BE 3 TO 5 YEARS IS WHEN WE SHOULD REALLY START SEEING THE IMPACT OF CONNECTED COMMUNITIES.

THOMPSON: THAT TIMELINE OF 3 TO 5 YEARS TO SEE A MORE MEASURABLE IMPACT OF THOSE ZONING AND MIDDLE HOUSING CHANGES CORRESPONDS TO THE IDEA THAT IF NEW PROJECTS ARE IN THE PLANNING PHASE THIS YEAR, THEN THEIR IMPACT MAY NOT BE FELT FOR A FEW YEARS MORE, AS THAT'S HOW LONG IT MAY TAKE FOR THEM TO GET APPROVED AND BUILT.

MOVING ON FROM MIDDLE HOUSING, IF YOU WANT TO ADD TO THE HOUSING SUPPLY IN A BIG WAY, BUILDING MORE LARGE SCALE APARTMENTS COULD BE THE ANSWER.

IT'S HAPPENING IN CINCINNATI AND DAYTON.

BERLING: THE MORE HOMES YOU CAN GET ON A PIECE OF GROUND USUALLY WILL DRIVE COSTS DOWN.

THOMPSON: SOME EXPERTS SAY RECENT CONSTRUCTION MIRRORS THE BUILDING BOOM OF THE 1970S.

NATIONWIDE WILL SET A RECORD THIS YEAR FOR APARTMENT CONSTRUCTION AT A HALF MILLION UNITS.

GREATER CINCINNATI IS ON TRACK TO WELCOME ABOUT 4000 NEW APARTMENT UNITS.

FOR METRO DAYTON, IT'S MORE THAN 550, AND THOUSANDS MORE ARE IN THE PIPELINE LOCALLY THROUGH 2028.

ONE SUCH EXAMPLE IS IN SUBURBAN CINCINNATI'S ANDERSON TOWNSHIP.

SIEVERS: IT HAS BEEN A CONSTRUCTION SITE THAT WE'VE KIND OF SEEN ONGOING NOW FOR ABOUT EIGHT YEARS, ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE PANDEMIC, BUT WE'RE HOPEFUL THAT THIS WILL NOT BE, YOU KNOW, THIS IS THE NEXT PHASE, BUT IT'S NOT THE LAST PHASE.

THOMPSON: THIS IS THE THIRD NEW BIG APARTMENT COMPLEX IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS IN A COMMUNITY KNOWN FOR GREEN SPACE AND SINGLE FAMILY HOMES.

GREATER DAYTON IS ALSO ON A LARGE SCALE APARTMENT BUILDING BOOM, WITH PROJECTS IN HUBER HEIGHTS, KETTERING AND TROTWOOD.

BUT ADDING LARGE SCALE APARTMENTS ISN'T EASY, AND IT ISN'T QUICK.

JUSTIN SEGER DEVELOPED THE ANDERSON TOWNSHIP'S VANTAGE YOU JUST SAW.

HE'S ALSO THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE GREATER CINCINNATI NORTHERN KENTUCKY APARTMENT ASSOCIATION.

SEGER: YOU HAVE A CONCEPT.

YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD A NARRATIVE.

YOU'RE GOING TO GET THE PROJECT APPROVED BY MUNICIPALITY.

AS PART OF THAT PROCESS, YOU HAVE TO WORK WITH AN ARCHITECT TO DESIGN THE PROJECT, INTERIOR, EXTERIOR.

YOU'RE BUILDING A UNIT MIX.

YOU'RE DOING ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

YOU HAVE TO COME UP WITH THE MONEY TO ACTUALLY CLOSE ON THE LAND.

THOMPSON: AND THAT'S JUST THE BEGINNING.

AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, IT COULD BE 3 TO 5 YEARS UNTIL PEOPLE MOVE IN.

THE BUILDING BOOM WE'RE SEEING NOW ACTUALLY STARTED YEARS AGO WHEN INTEREST RATES WERE LOW, THE HOUSING GAP CONTINUED TO GROW AND THE SUPPLY OF SINGLE FAMILY HOMES WAS NOT ONLY DECLINING, BUT THE COST WAS ESCALATING.

SOME OF THESE CIRCUMSTANCES HAVE NOW CHANGED, ACCORDING TO HARVARD'S DAN MCCUE.

MCCUE: COMPLETIONS ARE STILL RISING, ARE STILL PRETTY HIGH, BUT THAT'S STUFF THAT WAS PERMITTED, YOU KNOW, TWO, THREE, FOUR YEARS AGO, YOU KNOW, AND SO IT'S KIND OF A BIG TRAIN THAT HAS TO TURN.

AND SO RIGHT NOW THAT TRAIN IS HEADED SOUTH.

THOMPSON: SO WHILE WE ARE SEEING AN EXTENDED JUMP IN LARGE SCALE APARTMENT CONSTRUCTION, IT IS EXPECTED TO SLOW BEFORE THE END OF THE DECADE.

COMMUNITIES DO RECOGNIZE BUILDING MORE BIG APARTMENTS CAN HELP KEEP RENTS DOWN.

THE REAL ESTATE COMPANY COSTAR LOOKED AT RECORD APARTMENT CONSTRUCTION AND HOW THAT AFFECTED WHAT PEOPLE WERE PAYING.

MYRTLE BEACH, SOUTH CAROLINA, HAD THE HIGHEST RATE OF APARTMENT CONSTRUCTION IN THE THIRD QUARTER OF LAST YEAR AND SAW A 4% DECREASE IN RENT.

YOU CAN SEE THAT RESEARCH AT CETCONNECT.ORG AND THINKTV.ORG, WHICH HIGHLIGHTS TEN CITIES WHERE RENT DECLINED.

ONE THING THAT CITIES AND TOWNS IN OUR REGION ALSO HAVE TO NAVIGATE IS THE QUESTION OF HOW MORE OF THIS MARKET RATE OR LUXURY HOUSING WILL AFFECT THOSE ALREADY STRUGGLING TO AFFORD THEIR RENT OR MORTGAGES WITH THE NEED FOR QUALITY HOUSING GREATEST AT THE LOWER END OF THE INCOME SPECTRUM, RESEARCHERS SEE A SILVER LINING THAT COMES WITH A BUILD ANY HOUSING YOU CAN ATTITUDE.

ACCORDING TO A NOTRE DAME RESEARCHER, BUILDING MORE EXPENSIVE HOUSING DOES BENEFIT EVERYONE IN THE LONG RUN.

AND IT HAS A TERM.

IT'S CALLED FILTERING.

EVAN MAST LOOKED AT MARKET RATE APARTMENT LIVING IN 12 OF THE BIGGEST CITIES NATIONWIDE, TRACKING ADDRESS HISTORIES AND HOW THOSE APARTMENTS HELP CREATE MORE HOUSING AT DIFFERENT INCOME LEVELS.

EVEN THOUGH HE DIDN'T STUDY CINCINNATI, MAST IMAGINES HOW IT WOULD WORK HERE.

MAST: FOR EXAMPLE, SUPPOSE THAT I'M A NEW PROCTER AND GAMBLE EMPLOYEE AND I MOVE INTO ONE OF THESE BUILDINGS, THAT MEANS THAT MAYBE THERE'S SOME HOUSE A MILE AWAY THAT I OTHERWISE WOULD HAVE LIVED IN THAT'S NOW VACANT.

THOMPSON: BUT, MAST EXPLAINS, IT'S NOT JUST ONE RIPPLE EFFECT, IT COULD BE MANY.

WITH EACH ROUND MAKING MORE HOUSING AVAILABLE AT A LOWER PRICE POINT, HE SAYS.

BUT HOW LONG DOES THIS RIPPLE EFFECT TAKE?

MAST: IT'S HARD TO EXACTLY MEASURE THE TIME THAT IT TAKES FOR EACH ROUND OF THE CHAIN TO OCCUR, BUT IN MY RESEARCH, I ESTIMATED THAT FOR A NEW BUILDING TO START TO AFFECT THE, LIKE, BELOW AVERAGE INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS THAT THAT WOULD TAKE SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 2 AND 5 YEARS.

THOMPSON: THERE'S THAT 2 TO 5 YEAR TIME FRAME AGAIN.

SO HOW DO THE NUMBERS PLAY OUT IN THE RESEARCH ON FILTERING?

FOR EVERY 100 NEW MARKET RATE APARTMENTS, MAST SAYS 50 VACANCIES ARE CREATED.

OVER THE COURSE OF THE STUDY, HE TRACKED THE ADDRESSES OF 52,000 RESIDENTS AND WHAT HAPPENED TO THE HOUSING OVER SIX ITERATIONS.

HE DOES POINT OUT A SHORTFALL IN LOW INCOME NEIGHBORHOODS REDUCING DEMAND THROUGH THIS MIGRATION CHAIN MAY NOT ULTIMATELY LOWER COSTS BECAUSE, HE SAYS, RENTS HAVE LIKELY ALREADY REACHED THE BOTTOM OF THE MARKET.

ACKERMAN: THE PROCESS THAT YOU WORK THROUGH WITH THE MUNICIPALITY CAN USUALLY BE SHORTENED AND EXPEDITED.

THAT IS PROBABLY THE LARGEST CHALLENGE THAT WE FACE AS DEVELOPERS.

THOMPSON: ANOTHER FACET OF THIS CONVERSATION AROUND EFFICACY AND HOUSING FORMATS IS THE COST AND TIME ASSOCIATED WITH DEVELOPMENTS SIMPLY DUE TO THE SYSTEMS IN PLACE.

BERLING: SO YOU'RE BUYING THE PIECE OF PROPERTY, YOU'RE SPENDING MONEY ON ENGINEERS, ON CONSULTANTS, ON ATTORNEYS.

YOU'RE SPENDING YOUR OWN MONEY AND YOU'RE BORROWING MONEY FROM THE BANK.

AND SO YOU HAVE CARRY COSTS ON THAT INTEREST THAT YOU'RE PAYING.

AND THE LONGER THAT APPROVAL PROCESS TAKES, THE MORE MONEY THAT THAT COSTS YOU.

THOMPSON: HOME BUILDERS ASSOCIATION PRESIDENT AND PRIVATE DEVELOPER GREG BURLING SAYS THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF RED TAPE, AND THE AMOUNT OF IT DEPENDS ON WHICH DISTRICT YOU'RE BUILDING WITHIN.

BERLING: IT TAKES A LITTLE BIT LONGER IN THE CITY OF CINCINNATI TO GET THINGS THROUGH.

THEY THEY HAVE STREAMLINED THINGS.

THEY'VE DONE THEIR BEST.

BUT YOU'RE DEALING WITH MULTIPLE AGENCIES.

YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE SEWER DISTRICT, YOU'RE DEALING WITH THE WATER DISTRICT.

YOU'RE ALSO DEALING WITH THE DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT, THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT.

AND THEY'RE ALL SEPARATE DEPARTMENTS OF THE CITY THAT YOU'RE HAVING TO WADE THROUGH.

SO WHEN YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THAT PROCESS WITH THEM, YOU HAVE MANY DIFFERENT HANDS TOUCHING YOUR PROJECT THAT TYPICALLY DON'T TALK WITH EACH OTHER THAT MUCH.

THERE'S LESS HANDS THAT A DEVELOPMENT GOES THROUGH AS YOU GO OUT FURTHER OUT INTO THE COUNTIES.

THOMPSON: DEVELOPERS AND HOMEBUILDERS LIKE BERLING AND ACKERMAN SAY IN MANY WAYS, IT'S ABOUT SETTING EXPECTATIONS FOR DEVELOPERS SO THAT THERE AREN'T ANY INCONSISTENCIES ON HOW A DISTRICT MAY DEAL WITH ONE PROJECT OR ANOTHER.

PART OF REFINING THAT, THEY SAY, COULD BE STREAMLINING THE ZONING AND BUILDING APPROVAL PROCESS IN EVERY AREA.

NOYES: WE HAVE BUILDING CODES.

WE HAVE ZONING CODES.

WE WOULD JUST LIKE TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE ARE APPLIED EQUALLY FAIRLY TO EVERYBODY.

THOMPSON: HAMILTON COUNTY'S DIRECTOR OF PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT, JAMES NOYES, WOULD AGREE WITH THE IDEA OF STREAMLINING ZONING AND FINDING OTHER WAYS TO MAKE THE PROCESS MORE EFFICIENT.

IN AN EFFORT TO MAKE IT EASIER FOR DEVELOPERS TO UNDERSTAND HOW ZONING WORKS FOR THE AREA THEY'RE TRYING TO DEVELOP, NOYES' TEAM, ALONG WITH THE HAMILTON COUNTY REGIONAL PLANNING COMMISSION, HAS CREATED A MODEL ZONING CODE THAT DISTRICTS CAN USE IF THEY'D LIKE.

NOYES: AND THAT ZONING CODE ESSENTIALLY ALLOWS FOR CERTAINTY.

SO IF YOU'RE A DEVELOPER OR A BUILDER OR A HOMEOWNER, IF FENCES ARE ALL IN CHAPTER SEVEN, THE DEFINITION FOR A FENCE IS THE SAME.

IT'S NOT ONE DEFINITION IN THIS PLACE AND ONE DEFINITION IN THIS OTHER SO THAT THAT CERTAINTY, YOU KNOW, IS SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN COUNT ON.

THOMPSON: WHILE ONLY A HANDFUL OF DISTRICTS HAVE SIGNED ON TO THE MODEL ZONING CODE THUS FAR, NOYES IS HOPEFUL MORE WILL ADOPT THE FORMAT.

NOYES ALSO RECOGNIZES THAT TIME IS MONEY TO DEVELOPERS, AND THAT'S WHY HE PLANS TO SHIFT ALL PERMIT FILINGS WITH THE COUNTY OFFICE TO A DIGITAL SYSTEM EARLY NEXT YEAR.

NOYES: THAT IS ALL LEVERAGING TECHNOLOGY AND MAKING SURE THAT WE UTILIZE THAT TECHNOLOGY SO THAT OUR CUSTOMER CAN BENEFIT, AND ALSO THE TAXPAYER AND THE PUBLIC BENEFITS.

WHILE WE DON'T HAVE A REVIEW TO CUT THINGS DOWN FROM 18 MONTHS TO SIX MONTHS, FOR SAY IN ATLANTA.

I KNOW THAT ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CHICAGO DID IS THEY WENT TO DIGITAL PERMITTING AND THAT, LIKE I SAID, IS A VERY IMPORTANT THING.

THOMPSON: WHILE NOYES WASN'T YET ABLE TO SAY HOW MUCH TIME THIS UPDATE WILL SAVE FOR EVERYONE, THERE IS A RECOGNITION THAT DOING THINGS THE SAME OLD WAY IS NOT GOING TO GET YOU BETTER RESULTS, AND MODERNIZING THEIR SYSTEMS IS A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

THE SOLUTION SOUNDS SIMPLE: IF WE NEED MORE HOUSING, BUILD IT.

BUT A NUMBER OF FACTORS ARE SLOWING DEVELOPERS DOWN AND DRIVING UP THE PRICE.

HERE ARE SOME TAKEAWAYS.

AT THE FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL, KEY CHALLENGES THAT OUR HOUSING BUILDERS AND CITIES ARE FACING INCLUDE THE COST TO BUILD, THE COST OF LAND, AND THE LIMITS AND COSTS THAT ZONING CAN CREATE.

DEVELOPERS SAY UNNECESSARY OR ONEROUS ZONING HAS THEM LOOKING FARTHER AWAY FROM DOWNTOWN AREAS IN SOME CASES.

ALL OF THESE COSTS HAVE MADE CREATING NEW, SMALLER HOMES MUCH HARDER IN CITIES.

FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS, THAT MEANS RENOVATING THE HOUSING STOCK WE HAVE IN CITIES BECOMES EXTREMELY IMPORTANT.

AND FOR THOSE LOOKING FOR MORE AFFORDABLE SMALL HOMES, YOU MAY NEED TO LOOK A BIT FURTHER OUTSIDE THE CITY WHERE LAND IS CHEAPER, AS ARE EVENTUAL PRICES.

ON THE MIDDLE HOUSING SIDE OF THINGS, CINCINNATI AND DAYTON BOTH ALLOW FOR THIS TYPE OF TWO, THREE, AND FOUR FAMILY HOUSING.

DEVELOPERS AND CITY LEADERS SAY THESE ARE GOOD FOR INFILL CONSTRUCTION PROJECTS.

ONE CAN IMAGINE THEY MIGHT BE PERFECT FOR VACANT LOTS IN DAYTON AFTER ALL THE BLIGHT REMOVAL.

THIS TYPE OF HOUSING MAY BE KEY TO INCREASING DENSITY MORE INCREMENTALLY IN OUR NEIGHBORHOODS, WHILE NOT CHANGING THE CHARACTER.

ON THE MULTIFAMILY SIDE OF THINGS, WE ARE ALREADY SEEING A NUMBER OF LARGE SCALE APARTMENTS BEING BUILT IN OUR REGION, AND IF THE INTENT IS TO ADD MORE HOUSING QUICKLY, THIS MAY BE THE BEST BET NUMBERS WISE.

GREATER CINCINNATI WILL WELCOME ABOUT 4000 NEW APARTMENT UNITS, FOR METRO DAYTON IT'S MORE THAN 550, AND THOUSANDS MORE ARE IN THE PIPELINE LOCALLY THROUGH 2028.

MORE APARTMENTS HELP LOWER RENT, AS WE'VE SEEN IN OTHER CITIES AROUND THE COUNTRY, AND THAT'S A MAJOR ISSUE FOR OUR REGION WITH SO MANY RENTERS SPENDING 30 TO 50% OF THE INCOME JUST ON HOUSING.

AND THE RESEARCH AROUND FILTERING THAT WE TOLD YOU ABOUT SHOWS THAT EVEN IF MANY OF THE NEW APARTMENTS ARE FOR UPPER INCOME RENTERS, THAT THE UNITS WILL EVENTUALLY BENEFIT EVERYONE, SINCE THOSE TENANTS WILL CREATE OPENINGS AT LOWER INCOME HOUSING LEVELS WHEN THEY MOVE, AND SO ON.

AGAIN, SOMETHING THAT TIME WILL HOPEFULLY PROVE OUT CONSIDERING WHERE THE LARGEST NEED IS LOCALLY, THAT NEED IS FOR SUBSIDIZED AFFORDABLE HOUSING.

BRICK BY BRICK WILL CONTINUE TO FOLLOW THE ADDITION OF NEW HOUSING AT ALL LEVELS IN CINCINNATI AND DAYTON, AND BRING YOU UPDATES HERE, ON THE PODCAST, OR ON OUR WEBSITE.

UNTIL THEN, FOR CINCINNATI BASED JOURNALIST HERNZ LAGUERRE, JR. AND OUR DAYTON BASED CORRESPONDENT EMIKO MOORE, I'M ANNE THOMPSON.

WE'LL BE BACK TO EXPLORE MORE SOLUTIONS SOON.

TAKE CARE.

CAPTIONS: MAVERICK CAPTIONING CIN OH MAVERICKCAPTIONING.COM