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Hello again, friends!

I'm Jason Edens, your host of Lakeland Currents.

Thanks for joining the conversation today and thanks for your ongoing support of Lakeland Public Broadcasting.

On any given night, nearly 10,000 Minnesotans experience homelessness; many of whom experience it night after night, yet this is not breaking news.

Homelessness has been an issue for a very long time, and this really begs the question, can we actually eradicate homelessness in our region?

If so, how so?

Here to help us better understand housing security in our region, and a unique approach in Brainerd, is my guest Vicki Jo Kinney, founder of My Neighbor To Love Coalition.

Vicki, welcome to the program and thanks for making time for our conversation.

Thank you for having me.

Well, first of all, to what extent is homelessness an issue here in the Brainerd Lakes area?

It's a major extent.

I think people don't realize how many people are sleeping outside in encampment areas, and just, you know, it used to be sleeping in apartments, stairwells, and whatnot, but with the warming shelter open this last year, that's helped quite a bit.

I think there was about, just under 800 nights of sleeping, so some people, I think, were..

I think one person that was there 120 nights, but on average; so that many nights, somebody would have been outside sleeping in encampment areas and unsafe situations.

What is the warming shelter that you just mentioned?

The warming shelter was started just this year as a kind of a pilot program, it looks like it'll be running another year.

So, it's in south Brainerd, and it's not part of our organization but we're really thrilled to be able to have it.

It was opened up in, I think, in December and closed its doors at the end of April, so it's just for seasonal, just a seasonal, yes.

So, a seasonal homeless shelter here in Brainerd?

Right, yep, just brand new this year.

Okay, well, in the Brainerd Lakes area, of course, there are many organizations that are working on housing security.

Habitat for Humanity, Housing and Redevelopment Authority, Lutheran Social Services, Salvation Army.

Yes.

What is unique about My Neighbor To Love Coalition, or your approach?

Sure.

It's more of a combination of a lot of services with housing.

So we're not just looking at just the housing piece.

Housing First was started in 1990's under Phil Mangano, under President Bush, and then later a little bit, under Obama and the idea was that the cost for the taxpayers to have somebody be homeless, using emergency health services, or court expenses, and law enforcement, it averaged between $35 thousand to $150 thousand dollars per year, per person, so to cost the taxpayers, and so the idea was, we could take that money, instead, put people in housing, and then, you know, the cost would go down, and they did dramatically go down, by at least $20,000 per person, but they're finding over the years, that it's not enough, just putting people in housing doesn't solve the problem.

For some people, they just don't want to stay, they're isolated and lonely, and it is not really helping with some of the mental health issues.

It doesn't help with getting people back into a dignified life.

So, what we're proposing is, of course, the affordable housing piece.

People need housing, so we're so grateful that for Habitat and for all these different places, of trying to get more housing, but there's a shortage, a desperate need for housing in the Brainerd Lakes area, and especially housing that people can afford.

Rent is quite high, as you know, and properties are continuing to go up, and hopefully that will slow down soon.

So, what we're proposing is looking at each individual person.

I'm looking at the root causes, so what contributed to the homelessness or extreme poverty.

Taking a look at that, providing the homes for them, and then the services and the help to get them back into the workforce, to address whatever those issues are.

So, in addition to the housing, you're also going to be offering us this constellation of wrap-around services for the tenants, is that right?

That's right, yep.

What exactly is the housing solution itself?

Where are you building homes?

What type of homes?

Are you doing this in partnership with other organizations?

No, not at this point, what our plan is to build, focusing on tiny homes, but they're not that tiny, they're a little over 400 square feet.

We'll also be doing some family homes that'll be a little bit larger, like 500+ square feet, just because you can't fit a family in a 400 square foot home.

It's just, you would go crazy.

So we're looking at doing some 4-plexes, or possibly 6-plexes, and building more of a community.

So, we'll have community gardens, we'll have common areas, a playground for the children.

The idea is not just housing, and I guess I would describe it as a 3-legged stool.

So, we've got the 1st leg is Home, and that is, people need to have a safe place to live before they can address some of those other issues.

You can't be just trying to get your primary needs met and think, you try to think about getting a job , it's just, it'd be impossible.

You need an address.

The next area is Health and that would be our wrap-around services, with a mental health, financial health, relationship help.

Some people can get a job but just can't keep a job, just because of not knowing how to communicate and relate with other people.

So, it's looking at all of the physical health, all those issues, with the person.

Then the last leg of that 3-legged stool, we call Harmony, and that's that peaceful coexistence, that sense of community, and that's, I think, the piece that's missing with a lot of other supportive type housing communities.

That sense of belonging, that we're neighbors, and we look out for each other, and we care about each other, and if something's going on, and you're having trouble, what can we do to help.

So, it's instilling that value of each individual that everybody has worth.

So that's the goal of the My Neighbor to Love Coalition, is creating a a community, a village, that provides all of that.

Well, I want to ask you about the tiny homes, but I'm also curious about the origin of the name of the organization.

Can you explain that for us?

I certainly can.

Well, to be to be really honest, it was not our first choice of names, but we knew we wanted a name that would have a web, a website, and so, boy, there's not very many domain names left out there.

So we tried and tried, and we were actually quite happy when we came across this name.

It's based on...that My Neighbor to Love is about personal responsibility, it's not YOUR neighbor to love, it's not YOUR problem, it's mine, and it comes from the story in the Bible of the Good Samaritan, when Jesus was telling them about the greatest commandment, to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself.

Then he was asked, "Well, who exactly, is my neighbor?

Maybe trying to get out of a little bit.

I mean, he told the story of the good samaritan, and it was the person that got robbed and beaten and stripped, laying on the side of the road, and it was that good samaritan that came along and helped, and that's the good neighbor.

Then Jesus says, "Go and do the same".

So, for us, the name is meaningful because you know we're looking at people that have been stripped of their dignity, maybe robbed, they've had maybe some bad experiences in their life, they've robbed of self-worth, and so we want to be the neighbors that can come along and lift people back up and get them back on their feet, and back into their life.

So it's a faith-based organization?

It is a faith-based organization, yeah.

You don't have to be a Christian or follower to be part of the coalition, but you'd have to know that our values are faith-based, and that each person has immense worth.

It's faith-based, but it's also a private non-profit organization.

Yes a 5013c non-profit.

So why tiny Practical.

I mean, because well, I guess there's a couple reasons; because some people say "Well, why not apartment buildings?

Why not just pack everybody in there?

We've all seen the projects, and how those turn out.

We find that some people that have had some experiences with with past trauma, maybe have some mental health issues and concerns, to be, to have that much wall space next to you, below you, above you, it can feel very closed in, and also very isolating.

You hear a noise and you look out.

You look out your back window, or you look out into a hallway, it's not, it's not as inviting.

So, when you have that space around you, that green space, and you look out your window, and you look at your front porch, and you see people, it's sort of a, it helps with that community feel.

So, it's maybe more more financially practical to build apartment buildings, but we feel like for the Health part of it, and that sense of community, we wanted it to be a neighborhood, a neighborhood feel, and so the tiny homes, together with the green space around them, and front porches on every unit, so that also invites that sense of community, and walking by and visiting.

Sure.

So for our viewers that aren't familiar with the Brainerd Lakes area and Brainerd, specifically, where exactly will this project be built?

Okay.

Our very first, we've got three (3) separate lot areas, just between 4th and 3rd, and 3rd and 2nd street, north of James street, and then a little one-lot, actually two lots, north of Jackson.

So we'll be building hopefully this summer; we'll be building our model home so that we can give people tours of what this is going to look like, and as we start our home sponsorship campaign - hoping to do that very soon.

Then we'll be, the first community that we'll be building will be between 2nd and 3rd street.

So, for those who know the Brainerd Lakes area, it's by the community's, the Civic Center north of the Walgreens Tyrol Hill shopping area.

Yeah, it's literally a stone's throw from where we are having this conversation.

It really is, yep.

So, do you currently own this property?

We do.

We have nine acres.

Well, probably about 6 or 7 acres that are buildable.

We've got, there's some floodplain areas that are unbuildable, and it's quite hilly terrain, so we have our work cut out for us.

When did you acquire this property?

This would have been, I believe, in November.

In November?

That is when we first, we made the purchase agreement.

Which is shortly after you started the organization, correct?

That's right, yes.

We looked for land and we approached many cities looking for some property, and that was very challenging.

You approached multiple cities?

We did.

We looked for land everywhere we possibly could.

It's difficult with zoning, every, from first assessment to different communities, the zoning laws are different, and the availability, and then looking for, the amount of property that we would need, and then infrastructure and expenses, so yeah, we, and then, of course, a lot of cities, like Pequot and a few other ones, they made it very clear that they didn't really want tiny home developments.

I think it's new for some people.

If I'm not mistaken, those nine acres are right along the Mississippi River, correct?

We have one acre on the Mississippi River, but the rest of the acreages are not on the river, no.

Why was this property "not yet developed"?

It was owned by the Gustafson Properties and I think they tried to develop, I think, maybe storage house/storage buildings, I think, at one time.

I think he had some ideas of developing it but things just didn't go through and it was just sitting there.

It got to the point where I was looking at the mapping, GIS mapping system, pretty much every day, and just scouring the community, and like "where is a piece of property"?

I found it and it was undeveloped and I tracked down the owner of it and just called him up and told him what we'd like to do and said "Would you be interested in selling to us"?

Because it wasn't listed.

He said, "yeah, I think that'd be a great idea".

Interesting.

So, yeah.

So do you know the history of the land use there?

I really don't.

I know at one point there was a homeless encampment on the property, so there's still a little bit of debris left over from that.

Okay, and where are you in the stage of getting this project permitted?

For example, do you have the authorization from the City of Brainerd to build this project, at this point?

We really don't need any authorization, because we own the land.

We would like to replat some of the lots, but we are planning on moving ahead with just "over the counter permits", so we're able to just build one home at a time.

We'd like to start with some 4-plexes.

We'd love 6-plexes, but we're prepared for four plexes.

With a 6-plex, we need a conditional use permit.

Are you encountering any headwinds from the community, or is the community generally supportive of this?

You said that you experienced some resistance elsewhere, Pequot, specifically.

Yeah.

Are you experiencing similar resistance or headwinds here in the Brainerd community?

I would say that the neighbors have been great.

So, we invited all the neighbors in Tyrol Hills to talk with us and share their concerns and those kind of things, and we've had really, basically, no push-back at all from the neighbors.

Oftentimes, in this kind of situation, there's fear, and then NIMBY (Not In My Back Yard) campaign, and we were concerned about that, but the Tyrol residents, even though they probably have some concerns, I would think so, because they're, you know, it's new, it's a new idea, a new project, but they've not expressed any, and they've been, they've not put any roadblocks, they've not come to any of the public hearing meetings and protested it, so it's been it's been great.

We've had some pushback from the city council and the planning commission.

I think not, some of them have been really great, I think some of them have some fears about what we're building and what what it's going to look like.

Can you summarize what those fears would be?

I think, well, one of the issues, I believe, is they'd like to see more dense housing, maybe more apartment buildings and that kind of workforce housing on this property, which I understand.

Brainerd does need housing, but we all need housing for a certain population that is being overlooked and ignored, and that's our role.

And with 6 to 7 acres that are buildable, is that correct?

6 or 7 acres.

Yep.

How many units can you build?

Well, right now, we're just looking at the one block, and we potentially could build up to some 20 units, if we can get some conditional use permits for 6-plexes.

It's a very cool design, but, well, I can't show you show you yet, it's still being worked on.

Otherwise, we're looking at probably like 20 to 24 units.

In total?

Just in the first block, and then we have two other, two other block areas that we can, I would say, probably close to 50 altogether.

So once you accomplish your mission, and build out those 6 to 7 acres, how many folks that are experiencing housing insecurity will have a home ?

I would say, well, households, because some will be families, but I would say households - we would have probably at least 50, was our goal, and we may, we may consider more density housing between 4th and 3rd street so it could be higher than that.

And how will you select the tenants, or how will the tenants find you?

How does that process work?

We've already been meeting with a lot of the people that are experiencing homelessness in the community and forming relationships and getting to know them and this is, we want them to be involved too, and hear what their needs are and what they'd like to see in the community, as well.

We have an application process that we've already started, we're working on our handbook.

It's not just going to be anybody that wants to.

It'll have to be somebody that is proving that they are either experiencing homelessness or have some housing insecurity and they have to want to live in a community.

That's, probably the two, I guess hallmarks.

So, we're low barrier and that you can still be struggling with addiction, you can be a felon, you can have that on your background, we're not concerned about that.

If there's some violent criminal behavior in the background, then we can't, we can't allow that.

Just for the safety of the residents.

So, formally incarcerated individuals can certainly apply?

Sure.

Folks don't need to be sober to apply?

Right.

Some, I know that some housing initiatives require the tenants to be sober, but that's not part of your application.

No, its not.

Now, is that a result of the fact that you have these additional wrap-around services that will address that?

Yeah, I think that, that is.

We want, we want people to be... Again, it's about dignity, and we want people to have hope again, and I think when you've been beaten down for as long as some of these people have, it's hard to imagine.

It's hard to dream again, so we want to be able to to provide that.

Alan Green from Community First in Austin, Texas, he talks about some people need a longer runway, and that's what we want to provide.

So, we want to be able to give them enough time and enough support and help so that they can start dreaming again and get back into the workforce and maybe even do some micro enterprise businesses on site.

One more question about the tenants.

You said that you're already meeting with some potential tenants?

Yes, yeah.

How are you identifying those potential tenants?

Where are you finding them?

Sure.

People that are experiencing homelessness are in Brainerd and so, sometimes going to the the soup kitchen, sharing bread.

Our place has been great with Northern Pines.

Some people in the cold would go there and visit, and so they've been, they've been just really great to meet with them.

So, this model with the tiny homes with a number of different units, where has this proved successful elsewhere in the country?

That's a good question and that's where the Community First is the model that we found.

We researched for about two, about a little over two years.

I'm looking at what does work and what doesn't work and there's all kinds of solutions throughout the country and it's unique to each probably demographic and area of the country but when we came across Community First, it had everything.

It checked all of our boxes of what we were looking for.

So, the idea that people are valuable and that it's about community not just about housing and they also offer a lot of those same services.

They're growing.

They've been around for a long time now and it's successful and they keep developing and growing.

Since then Eden Village USA and Springfield adopted that same model to Springfield and also in Illinois and also now North Carolina and I think they're looking at Tulsa.

Branson, Elevate Branson is a similar project same way.

So, they're starting to to pop up throughout the country but this would be the first in Minnesota of this type.

Of this type?

Yes.

So, there are no precedents in Minnesota in terms of tiny homes that focus on Community First as you say.

That's right.

Yeah.

There's a tiny home development in Duluth but it's for profit.

It's just for people that want to live in smaller homes.

It has nothing to do with homeless population or anything.

Interesting.

But, there are some developments in Minneapolis that are working on also very similar projects, working with tiny homes and community.

I think Envision is one of them and there's a few other ones as well but I think we'll be the first in and especially in this area but I believe in Minnesota to do the kind of project that we're doing.

We're hoping that this will spread throughout the state.

We'd love to be a beacon for the rest of of Minnesota where other towns could come and look.

And would you lead that charge?

I would love to see, I would love to see Minnesota and homelessness.

Our goal is not to keep homeless people more comfortable.

The idea is to end homelessness all together and that's our goal.

So, after this first project here in Brainerd, you envision your organization doing something similar in other communities.

Is that what I'm hearing?

I would say we probably wouldn't be taking on the charge but we would be helping the other communities, show them the ropes, show them what to do and how it's done and get them started and be a more of an advisor position to help them to duplicate the same thing that we're doing here.

Sure.

Well let's talk money.

Okay.

Securing or I should say procuring nine acres along the Mississippi River was probably not terribly inexpensive.

So how are you paying for this?

Generous donation.

So we had a $400,000 donation to purchase the land and then about just under $100,000 of city assessments for the road improvements and so we still have that to pay and we'll put on the taxes.

So we've got a good start.

So, the land is paid for and clear and free.

Our biggest fundraiser, we won a few grants which is great and we'll continue to apply for grants and look for other funding sources as well.

But that's the land right?

Right.

Because you still have to build the units.

Now it's time to build.

So how much will that cost?

We're looking at this point probably about another $1,800,000 altogether.

Because we'll be building not only just the tiny homes but a community center and in the community center will be staff offices.

It will be meeting rooms for Celebrate Recovery and AA meetings, a big kitchen, couch area, library area, exercise room and an art and crafts room.

So, we want it to be a gathering place where people can just kind of come and hang out and spend time together.

And that's kind of Community First ethos?

Yes it is and we hope to do some micro enterprises down the road as well.

So we're saving a couple lots for that as well for the future.

But yes our biggest fundraiser we anticipate and what's proven successful in other states is the sponsoring of the tiny homes.

So encouraging businesses, groups of people, churches, organizations to get together and do their own fundraising and then commit to building or having built one of the homes.

Do you have any commitments yet?

No, we haven't even started the fundraiser yet.

So, we're finishing the floor plans and we're about ready to apply for a building permit probably within the next month or two.

So, you mentioned staff.

Who is going to be staffing this and what are their jobs?

Well, we will we're very low in staff because we're all volunteers but we do want to hire a property manager and build an apartment for them to be able to live on site and they'll just be making sure that rents because all these units will be, you have to pay rent.

So, it, you know, will be low rent but but they'll be the ones just kind of making sure everything's running smoothly.

What happens if a tenant can't pay their rent?

Right.

What we want to do is have enough funds set aside for, I'm looking at the cause of that.

So, was it a job loss?

Was it a health issue?

So, we're not about booting people out because these are month-to-month leases but it's looking at what happened, what can we do and so if we can provide some jobs on site that people can then use for credits to be able to pay that rent for that month.

So, we're about helping people stay in housing.

They can live there as long as they want as long as they're good neighbors and can, you know, pay the minimum rent.

And if it's one of the 500 square foot tiny homes, what would the rent be?

Well these are the smaller ones are 400 square feet.

The single families will be 500.

We're exploring it right now.

We'd like to keep the cost closer to $350 a month.

So, that's what we're looking at but we're still we're still looking at the numbers but that's what we're hoping for.

And who's designing these?

Well, we have, you know, as a team I've mostly done some of the design work on them.

So, we're taking it to an architect now to do the blueprints.

I see.

So, you've done the design work that's part of your background is designing homes?

Well, it's more of a hobby.

So yeah.

So and they're small.

It doesn't take a lot of creativity.

Sure.

And the building code and city ordinances are not a barrier to this project in any way shape or form?

We're following everything according to the city.

True city ordinances.

Well, I'm also curious about how this model can address longer term housing.

According to the Aspen Institute nearly 43 million Americans face eviction.

Is this the model or a model that can help address some longer-term housing insecurity issues nationally?

I think absolutely.

The homes are easy to put up.

They're very simple, you know, roof lines, floor lines.

And they're, I know that some people can put them up in a matter of a few weeks if they, you know, get a team together to do them.

So, and it shouldn't be.

I know costs are a lot right now with building costs but they're very easy to build and simple floor plans.

So, how much does one cost?

We're looking, we're still getting our bids in and looking at it but we're we're anticipating if we do labor volunteer for the construction, we're looking at closer to around $50-55,000 and that would include the sewer hookup and flooring and appliances and so it could be anywhere between $50,000 to $70,000 is what we're looking at.

And every unit will have access to city water and city sewer?

That's right.

I see and do you think that you'll be able to fill these rapidly once they're built?

I think we'll have a waiting list.

Is that right?

It's going to be, I definitely think we'll have a waiting list.

Just talking with not too long ago some of the social services agencies in the area, I think they had, I believe it was 50 people waiting right now.

I think half of them were families, some were single, some are, you know, young adults aging out of the foster care system that were waiting for housing, applying for housing and it can take it sometimes up to a year for somebody to get Section 8 Housing and there's many people that won't, you know, won't be able to to get it because they don't qualify because of their backgrounds.

So, we're anticipating and that's just one organization that has those in our waiting list and there's many people that won't go into the coordinated entry system.

They just have some, you know, fears of social services and those kind of things.

So, we anticipate that we will have, we'll have a waiting list.

So in order to provide all these wraparound services right, this constellation wrap-around services are you partnering with county social services or with whom are you partnering in order to provide that?

What we're hoping to do is looking at what's already being provided and so some of the things that we'll be doing will be hooking people up with what's already available.

If there's a really good program already available that works for them then we'll just be referring out but we want to have as many services on site as possible because even if there's a great program out there, we're hoping that they will bring that program to the Community Center because people just won't utilize them.

Sure.

They just won't go and they won't show up.

They, you know, don't even show up sometimes to to sign up and do the paperwork.

It could be overwhelming.

Right.

So, $350 a month.

Does that include utilities?

We have to do these all separately so probably not including utilities.

Probably not.

But we're still exploring some of those details.

So, Minnesota's cold.

This winter is a great example of just how cold it can be and how long and grueling the winter can be.

How are you going to heat them?

Well, we're looking at whether they're going to do natural gas or electric.

So, we're still looking at some of those options too.

One of those two?

One of those two.

Okay and how can the community get involved?

If someone's listening and getting excited about this model and wants to get involved, how can they get involved?

Contact us.

We've got our website is www.mntlc.org.

My Neighbor To Love Coalition.

It's kind of easy to remember because it's also Minnesota Tender Loving Care.

So they can contact me.

We've got our contact information on there.

We'll be doing some of the sponsoring for homes coming soon.

So if anybody wants to get involved with that that would be great.

We're always looking for volunteers.

We'll be needing land clearing.

There'll be gardens there.

I mean there's so many, we would like to match each resident up with a mentor or just like a community advocate.

Just somebody that's kind of looking out for them.

Somebody they can call on.

So people that want to get involved personally we'd love that.

People want to offer their education and skills.

Do they want to help with job training or cooking classes or we've got we really even have room for any volunteer that would like to help.

So potentially scores and scores.

Scores and scores and then down to the actual building and landscaping and gardening and so.

So, speaking of building are you going to hire someone to build them or are you going to be building these with volunteer labor?

We are going to mostly build them with volunteer labor in as much as we can.

Habitat for Humanity has been great and Kevin said that we will train your volunteers.

Yes.

We will train your volunteers.

So when it gets to that point.

So, we'll be looking for volunteers and anybody that has some skills.

So Vicki what brought you to this work?

What motivates you to do this work?

Why did you start the organization?

We knew there was a need and both my husband and I have people that are dear and close to us that have experienced homelessness and we've seen the impact and the trauma that they've experienced.

So, it's just something that's very close to our hearts.

My son, I wasn't going to even share this, but my son had been experiencing chronically homelessness for several years and mental health issues and he recently passed and we just, it's been rough, but we just really believe that what was missing in his world when he was living in Colorado, we're trying to create that here.

So, that other parents don't lose their children and siblings don't lose their brothers or sisters because we want to build a community and a development that addresses all those needs and gets people back into a healthy and helpful lifestyle.

Vicki, I want to thank you so much for sharing that and thank you so much for spending time with us.

Thank you so much.

I'm excited about what God's doing here.

Thank you and thank all of you for joining me once again.

You can continue the conversation on Twitter.

Tweet me @currentspbs.

I'm Jason Edens, your host of Lakeland Currents.

Be kind and be well.

We'll see you next week.