>> TONIGHT ON "IVORY TOWER..." WHY DID SOMEONE LEAK THAT SUPREME COURT OPINION... BANNING MENTHOL CIGARETTES... AND BANKING AT THE POST OFFICE.

STAY TUNED.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER."

I'M RICH O'NEIL, THE HOST OF "CYCLE OF HEALTH" SITTING IN TONIGHT AS HOST.

JOINING ME ON THE PANEL ARE KRISTI ANDERSON FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY, RICK FENNER FROM UTICA UNIVERSITY, A NEW PANELIST FROM SUNY CORTLAND, MICHAEL TILLOTSON... GLAD TO HAVE YOU, MICHAEL, AND ANIRBAN ACHARYA, FROM LeMOYNE COLLEGE.

WELL, THE MAJOR STORY OF THE WEEK WAS THAT UNPRECEDENTED LEAK FROM THE SUPREME COURT.

A FIRST DRAFT OF A DECISION ON ABORTION SAYS THAT THE MAJORITY WANTS TO NOT JUST LIMIT ROE V. WADE, BUT OVERTURN IT.

NOW WE KNOW THERE ARE GENERALLY MANY REVISIONS TO DECISIONS, SO THAT MAY NOT HAPPEN, BUT I'M WONDERING WHY SOMEONE WOULD LEAK IT.

MICHAEL, WHAT'S YOUR THEORY?

>> FOR ME, THE LEAK IS A SYMPTOM OF ANOTHER THING.

AND THAT IS HOWEVER IT GOT OUT, HOWEVER IT GOT OUT, NO MATTER IF IT IS THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT, IT BROADCAST THAT HYPERPARTISAN POLITICS IS A CANCER ON AMERICAN DEMOCRACY.

IT REFUSES TO PUSH FORWARD THE AMERICAN IDEAL.

NOW WHAT IS MEAN MORE TROUBLING WHEN CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS ANNOUNCED AN INVESTIGATION ABOUT THE LEAK, A LOT OF AMERICANS CANNOT STOP WONDERING CAN THEY EVEN TRUST HIM TO ORCHESTRATE AN INVESTIGATION.

ANOTHER PROBLEM FOR DEMOCRACY.

SO IF ALL OF THIS, ALL THESE CONCERNS START TO EMERGE SUCH AS IS IT TIME TO SERIOUSLY THINK ABOUT TERM LIMITS FOR SUPREME COURT JUSTICES?

DO WE NEED TO RETHINK LIFETIME TENURE AND APPOINTMENTS FOR THE MEMBERS OF THESE ERODING INSTITUTIONS?

THESE ARE THE TYPES OF QUESTIONS THAT VERY FEW AMERICANS HAD NOT LONG AGO.

CLEARLY THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES IS IN CRISIS ON SO MANY LEVELS, I WANDER IF KETANJI BROWN JACKSON IS THINKING QUIETLY TO HERSELF HERSELF WHAT HAVE I GOTTEN MYSELF INTO.

>> WHEN I SAW THE LINK LEAK, IT REMINDED ME OF A SONG, THERE IS A CRACK IN EVERYTHING AND THAT'S HOW THE LIGHT GETS IN.

WE ARE PLAYING WITH IRONY HERE.

WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT AT "IVORY TOWER" HOW THE COURT RELIES ON SHADOW DOCKETS REFUSING TO SHOW ITS WORK.

THIS SHINES A MIRROR INTO THE INTERNAL WORKINGS OF THE COURT.

AND THE SECOND LEVEL OF IRONY IS THE COURT DECIDING SOMETHING WHICH IS ABOUT THE PRIVACY OF WOMAN AND THE DIGNITY TO HAVE A CHILD.

SO PRESUMABLY THE COURT WOULD BE ARGUING AGAINST IT.

SO THIS LEAK KIND OF AGAIN, INTRUDES INTO THE PRIVACY OF THE COURT ITSELF.

SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF MOTIVE, IT COULD BE ANYBODY FROM THE LEFT AND RIGHT, I AGREE.

THERE ARE MOTIVES ON BOTH SIDES.

BUT I AGREE WITH YOU MICHAEL THIS COMES TO SHOW THAT WE ALREADY KNOW COURT WAS A POLITICIZED INSTITUTION BUT WE NEED TERM LIMITS, WE NEED SOME KIND OF CHECK, FURTHER CHECK ON THE INSTITUTION.

IT IS QUITE OPAQUE AND ONE OF THE LEAST REPRESENTATIVE BRANCHES OF THE GOVERNMENT.

>> I LOOK BACK AT THE NEW YORK TIMES COVERAGE OF THE ORIGINAL ROE V. WADE DECISION IN 1973.

TO MICHAEL'S POINT TO A CERTAIN EXTENT.

IT DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THE PARTISANS POSITIONS OF THE JUSTICES.

IT DIDN'T REFER TO THEM AS DEMOCRATS OR REPUBLICANS.

REALLY DID KIND OF TALK ABOUT THE REASONING AND TALK ABOUT THE DECISION ITSELF.

LATER ON, YOU KNOW, CASEY DECISION AND SO ON AND SO FORTH, THE COVERAGE WAS MORE CONSERVATIVE AND LIBERAL.

"THE NEW YORK TIMES" TALKED ABOUT CONSERVATIVE POSITIONS AND LIBERAL POSITIONS.

NOW IT'S ALL ABOUT PARTISANSHIP.

THE SUPREME COURT IS DESCRIBED AND DISCUSSED IN PARTISAN TERMS, JUST LIKE THE CONGRESS IS.

AND I THINK THAT IS A BIG AND UNFORTUNATE CHANGE.

>> ONE OF THE THUNKS I FOUND INTERESTING IN TALKING ABOUT THE LEAK IS, YOU KNOW, ALL LEADS SEEM TO BE LEADING TO BRETT KAVANAUGH BECAUSE THE THEORY IS THAT LIBERALS LEAKED IT TO PUT PRESSURE ON HIM TO CHANGE HIS VOTE AND THE THEORY ON WHY CONSERVATIVES LEAKED IT IS TO PUT PRESSURE ON HIM NOT TO CHANGE HIS VOTE.

SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, HE IS CERTAINLY GOING TO BE UNDER THE SPOTLIGHT HERE AS WILL CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS WHO IS TRYING, IT APPEARS TO WALK A FINE LINE AND TO HAVE THE MISSISSIPPI LAW UPHELD WHILE STILL RETAINING THE PAST PRECEDENTS.

>> CAN I MAKE ONE POINT QUICKLY?

IT TURNS OUT, I LOOKED UP, THAT 59 COUNTRIES IN THE LAST FEW YEARS HAVE-- WELL, LAST 20 YEARS, HAVE EXPANDED ABORTION RIGHTS.

ONLY FOUR HAVE GONE BACKWARDS.

SO WE ARE IN A GROUP WITH POLAND AND NICAUAGUA, EL SALVADOR AND HONDURAS.

>> MANY OF THE ONES THAT ARE LIBERALIZING ARE CONSERVATIVE-- >> CATHOLIC COUNTRIES.

IT'S VERY SURPRISING THAT WE ARE GOING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION.

>> I'M NOT SURE THAT'S A GOOD GROUP WE WANT TO BELONG TO.

>> THAT'S BACKSLIDING DEMOCRACY.

>> FROM A FIRE TO SMOKE.

HOW ABOUT THAT?

THE FDA IS PROPOSING BANNING MENTHOL CIGARETTES SAYING IT WOULD SAVE THOUSANDS OF LIVES.

BUT SOME ACTIVISTS NOTE THAT ABOUT 80% OF BLACK SMOKERS PREFER MENTHOLS SO THIS WOULD HAVE A DISPROPORTIONATE EFFECT ON THE BLACK COMMUNITY IT COULD LEAD TO INCREASED POLICING OF STORES IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY OR TO SMUGGLING AND AN UNDERGROUND MARKET.

ANIRBAN, IS THIS FAIR TO THE MINORITY COMMUNITY?

>> THIS IS A VERY THORNY ISSUE.

ON THE ONE HAND, YES, MENTHOL CIGARETTES ARE VERY HARMFUL.

NAACP, FOR EXAMPLE, CAME OUT IN FAVOR OF THIS DECISION.

BUT THERE ARE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES AS YOU POINT OUT OF THIS KIND OF A BAN OR ANY TIME WHEN THERE IS A BAN.

AND YOU KNOW, THIS IS WHERE I PUT ON MY ECONOMIST HAT.

IF YOU BAN SOMETHING, IT GIVES PEOPLE THE INCENTIVE TO DO IT UNDERGROUND AND AS A RESULT, YOU WILL HAVE MORE, YOU KNOW, SUB MARKET, SUB QUALITY CIGARETTES.

AND AS WE HAVE SEEN WITH ERIC GARNER AND OTHERS, YOU KNOW, MINOR INFRACTIONS IN TERMS OF SELLING LOOSE CIGARETTES HAVE LED TO DISASTROUS CONSEQUENCES.

SO I FEAR THAT THIS WILL DRIVE, YOU KNOW, THE BUYING AND SELLING OF MENTHOLS TO AN INFORMAL UNDERGROUND MARKET BUT I ALSO, AT A BROADER LEVEL THINK IT HAS A CERTAIN KIND OF PATERNALISTIC SMELL TO IT.

IT'S LIKE SAYING PEOPLE DON'T HAVE AGENCY IN THEMSELVES TO KIND OF THINK ABOUT WHAT IS HARMFUL FOR THEM OR NOT.

AND NOW WHEN WE ARE LEGALIZING MARIJUANA ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES, SO IT SEEMS PEOPLE CAN GET HIGH BUT THEY CAN'T SMOKE MENTHOL; WHICH SEEMS A LITTLE BIT, I DON'T KNOW, STRANGE TO ME.

BUT AGAIN, THE POINT HERE IS THAT MENTHOL CIGARETTES ARE AGGRESSIVELY MARKETED TO BLACK COMMUNITIES AND THEY HAVE HARMED BLACK COMMUNITIES AND THEIR HEALTH.

SO AGAIN, IT'S A THORNY ISSUE MUCH.

>> MY INITIAL POSITION WAS TO THINK THIS IS A GOOD MOVE OF THE GOVERNMENT AND IT WAS PUSHED NOT ONLY ENDORSED BUT PUSHED BY THE NAACP AND MORE KIND OF ESTABLISHED AFRICAN-AMERICAN GROUPS.

AND A LOT OF THE REASON INITIALLY THOUGHT THIS WAS A GOOD IDEA, IT HAD NOT MUCH TO DO WITH THAT BUT MORE TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT YOUNG PEOPLE TEND TO-- THIS IS THE ENTRY DRUG, ESSENTIALLY.

IT'S HARD TO SMOKE-- IT'S HORRIBLE TO SMOKE, ACTUALLY, AND MENTHOL CIGARETTES MAKE IT EASIER.

SO THE NOTION IS TO STOP YOUNG PEOPLE FROM BECOMING ADDICTED TO CIGARETTES.

BUT I DO-- I UNDERSTAND THE UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES HERE.

CERTAINLY IT IS NOT A RACIST DECISION IN THE SENSE THAT THE FDA WAS BEING RACIST, BUT IT HAS IMPACTS THAT ARE DIFFERENTIATED BY GROUP.

>> AND I THINK ULTIMATELY, WHETHER THIS IS GOING TO BE SUCCESSFUL AND HOW MANY LIVES ARE ACTUALLY SAVED, DEPENDS UPON WHAT THESE MENTHOL SMOKERS DO.

IF THEY HAVE ACTUALLY THREE OPTIONS.

THEY CAN QUIT SMOKING.

THEY CAN THEN SWITCH TO NON-CIGARETTES THAT DON'T HAVE MENTHOL IN THEM OR THEY CAN GO THE UNDERGROUND ROUTE AS SUGGESTED.

INTERESTINGLY, CANADA, WHICH HAS BANNED MENTHOL CIGARETTES, THEY SAW ABOUT A 5% REDUCTION IN SMOKING BECAUSE OF THIS.

SO I THINK THE INITIAL RESULTS BY LOOKING AT WHAT HAPPENED IN CANADA, ARE SOMEWHAT ENCOURAGING.

BUT AGAIN, THE ISSUE, WHEN YOU ARE CONFRONTED WITH THE FACT AS RICH SAID AT THE BEGINNING, 80% OF BLACKS PREFER MENTHOL CIGARETTES AND ONLY 25 TO 30% OF WHITES, IT'S HARD NOT TO SEE A RACIAL ISSUE THERE ALSO.

>> TO Dr. A'S POINT, THERE IS A LONG DOCUMENTED HISTORY, TO PUT IT MILDLY, OF AGGRESSIVE TARGETING OF MENTHOL CIGARETTES TO BLACK AMERICANS, ESPECIALLY IN THE URBAN CORE IN THE URBAN SOUTH.

BIG TOBACCO INSINUATED ITSELF INTO THE BLACK COOL, THE AND OVER TIME, MENTHOL CIGARETTES BECAME PART OF THE CULTURAL SCRIPT OF URBAN BLACK AMERICA, ESPECIALLY AFTER THE BLACK EXPLOITATION FILMS OF 1970s TOOK OFF AND IMAGES OF BLACK KOOL GAINED TRACTION IN THE DEFINITION OF BLACK AMERICANS AS A FORM OF HUMAN POSITIVE AGENCY.

IN ADDITION, I WOULD SAY THERE ARE NO GOOD ACTORS HERE.

THERE ARE NO GOOD ACTORS HERE.

NEITHER BIG TOBACCO NOR THE FDA.

THEY'RE BOTH GUILTY OF IGNORING THE HEALTH CONSEQUENCES OF MENTHOL ADDITIVES TO CIGARETTES AND RESULTING DEATH AND DISEASE OF THEIR LACK OF EFFORTS SO THERE ARE NO GOOD ACTORS HERE.

>> ONE THING IN RESPONSE TO THAT, WHAT ABOUT THE E-CIGARETTES?

DO WE KNOW WHAT LEGISLATION IS COMING OUT?

I SAW A BUNCH OF SCHOOL KIDS THE OTHER DAY AND THEY WERE NOT SMOKING CIGARETTES.

THEY WERE SMOKING E-CIGARETTES AND THEY HAVE FLAVORS IN THEM AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.

SO I WONDER, DO YOU KNOW LIKE WHAT IS THE LEGISLATION AROUND THAT BECAUSE... >> E-CIGARETTES WERE OUTLAWED BUT NOT BEING A SMOKER, I'M NOT SURE.

YOU RAISE AN INTERESTING POINT WHY, FROM WHAT I'VE READ, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MENTHOL AND NON-MENTHOL CIGARETTES IN TERMS OF RISK OF LUNG CANCER.

WHAT DIFFERENTIATES THEM IS 1: THE FACT THAT MENTHOL CIGARETTES ARE EASIER TO SMOKE AND THAT THEY'RE HARDER TO QUIT.

ONE THING I WANT TO MENTION, IF WE GO THROUGH WITH THIS BAN ON THIS, WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE OUT THERE TO HELP THOSE PEOPLE THAT DO ATTEMPT TO QUIT SO THAT THEY DON'T TRANSFER OVER AND JUST TRY TO GET THEIR HABIT BY SMOKING THE NON-MENTHOL CIGARETTES.

>> I THINK IT'S THE CASE THAT FLAVORS ARE PROHIBITED, NOT JUST MENTHOL.

BUT I'M NOT POSITIVE ABOUT THAT.

>> I HEARD RECENTLY ALSO THAT EVEN VAPING HAS LOTS OF NEGATIVE EFFECTS ON YOUR BODY.

EVEN THOUGH IT DOESN'T HAVE ALL THE BAD STUFF THAT CIGARETTES DO.

TO YOUR POINT ABOUT AGENCY, YOU KNOW, I THINK PEOPLE LOSE THEIR AGENCY IN A LOT OF WAYS AS SOON AS YOU GET ADDICTED TO SMOKING BECAUSE IT IS HARDER TO QUIT THAN HEROIN.

SO PEOPLE LOSE THEIR AGENCY.

I THINK-- DO YOU KNOW, MICHAEL, IF OR I THINK IT WAS RICK MADE THE POINT ABOUT CANADA SAW 5% REDUCTION.

DID THEY SEE ANY REDUCTION IN KIDS STARTING SMOKING?

>> I DIDN'T SEE THAT.

I SAW THE OVERALL.

AND THEY-- THE RESEARCHERS PREDICTED THAT IF THIS WERE TO GO THROUGH IN THE UNITED STATES, THE 19 MILLION SMOKERS WHO SMOKE MENTHOL, THEY THOUGHT ABOUT 1 MILLION WOULD QUIT SMOKING AND ABOUT 200,000 TO 300,000 OF THOSE WERE AFRICAN-AMERICAN.

>> IT HASN'T BEEN IN EFFECT FOR VERY LONG IN CANADA, RIGHT?

JUST FIVE YEARS OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

>> MICHAEL... >> ON THE ISSUE OF AGENCY.

FOR QUITE SOMETIMES AFRICANA STUDIES TALK ABOUT TWO TYPES OF STUDY.

POSITIVE AGENCY AND NEGATIVE AGENCY.

SMOKING IS NEGATIVE AGENCY TO PUT IT MILDLY.

WHEN I SAY THERE ARE NO GOOD ACTORS, THERE ARE NOT.

WE TALK ABOUT THE HISTORY OF THE NAACP.

THEY HAVE TAKEN MONEY FROM BIG TOBACCO.

EBONY JET MAGAZINE IN THE 70s TOOK BIG MONEY FROM BIG TOBACCO.

CERTAIN PARTS OF AMERICA, THE KOOL JAZZ FESTIVAL SPONSORED JAZZ FESTIVALS SO THE HIGH AND MIGHTY PEOPLE STEPPING OUT NOW, WHERE WERE THEY 10, 20, 30 YEARS AGO.

IT'S AN INTERESTING COMPOSITION OF THE HIGH AND MIGHTY FOLKS.

WE HAVE TO MOVE ON TO BANKING.

BANKING IS ANOTHER ISSUE THAT AFFECTS BLACK AND MINORITY COMMUNITIES.

MANY DON'T HAVE A BANK AND PAY SKY HIGH RATES FOR CHECK CASHING OR LENDING.

AND IN RURAL AREAS, THERE ARE FEWER BANKS.

IN FACT, ABOUT ONE FIFTH OF THE POPULATION LIVES IN A COMMUNITY WITHOUT EVEN ONE.

UP UNTIL THE LATE 60, THE U.S.

POSTAL SERVICE OFFERED BANKING SERVICES.

IS IT TIME TO REVIVE THAT?

RICKS?

>> ON THE SURFACE IT SOUNDS LIKE A REASONABLE PROPOSAL.

WE HAVE MILLIONS OF HOUSEHOLDS THAT ARE UNBANKED AND BY UNBANKED, WE MEAN NO ONE IN THE HOUSEHOLD HAS A CHECKING OR SAVINGS ACCOUNT AND WE HAVE 31,000 OR SO POST OFFICES AND AS YOU SAID, THERE IS A HISTORY OF THEM OFFERING THESE SERVICES.

BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE NUMBERS A LITTLE MORE CLOSELY, I THINK YOU QUESTION WHETHER THIS MAKES SENSE.

FIRST, THE FDIC DOES A BIANNUAL SURVEY AND THE NUMBER OF HOUSEHOLDS UNBANKED HAS BEEN GOING DOWN AS HIGH AS 8.5% A FEW YEARS AGO DOWN TO 5% NOW.

YOU ALSO SEE THAT FEWER HOUSEHOLDS ARE USING PAYDAY LOAN AND PAWN SHOPS AND RENT-TO-OWN AS NON-BANK CREDIT.

BUT THE PRIMARY NUMBER THAT STUCK OUT TO ME IS WHEN THEY ASKED PEOPLE WHO WEREN'T BANKING, WHY THEY DIDN'T.

NUMBER ONE REASON WAS THEY DIDN'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO MEET THE MINIMUM BALANCE REQUIREMENTS.

29%.

17% SAID THEY DIDN'T TRUST BANKS.

ONLY 2.2% SAID THE PRIMARY REASON BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE ACCESS TO A BANK OR THE HOURS WEREN'T REASONABLE.

SO THIS SUGGESTS THAT IT'S NOT THE PHYSICAL LOCATION OF A BANK THAT'S REALLY MATTERING.

AND IF THEY DON'T TRUST BIG BANKS, ARE THEY GOING TO TRUST BIG GOVERNMENT WITH THEIR MONEY?

WE SAW WHEN IT CAME TO LOWER VACCINATION RATES FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS, THAT THEY DIDN'T TRUST THE GOVERNMENT TO TELL THEM TO GO OUT AND GET VACCINATED.

SO I THINK THERE ARE BETTER ALTERNATIVES THAN THE POST OFFICE.

>> I WOULD BE INTERESTED TO HEAR YOUR BETTER A LITTLER.

I WOULD PUSH BACK A LITTLE BIT.

I THINK THAT PEOPLE DON'T THINK OF THE POST OFFICE, THEIR POST OFFICE IN THEIR TOWNS AS BIG GOVERNMENT, FRANKLY.

I THINK PEOPLE DO TRUST THE POST OFFICE.

AND THE FACT THAT THE RURALNESS OR THE LACK OF BEING CLOSE TO A BANK IS NOT THAT MUCH OF A PROBLEM, MAYBE, STILL DOESN'T GET AT THE PROBLEM OF PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE EXACTLY AS YOU SAY, DON'T HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO OPEN A CHECKING ACCOUNT OR OPEN, YOU KNOW, OR TO KEEP IT IN THERE SO THE POST OFFICE COULD, I THINK, DOESN'T THAT MEAN THAT THE POST OFFICE, BY NOT HAVING THOSE REQUIREMENTS FOR WRITING CHECKS OF... >> MOST CREDIT UNIONS, WHILE THE BIG BANKS LIKE BANK OF AMERICA AND CITICORP, THEY HAVE PRETTY HIGH FEES, YOU CAN USUALLY FIND CREDIT UNIONS AND OTHER MORE LOCAL BANKS THAT DON'T HAVE FEES.

SO-- AND PLUS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FACT THAT MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE DOING, YOU KNOW, MOBILE BANKING, AND MOST OF THE POOR ALSO HAVE ACCESS TO MOBILE PHONES, I THINK FEWER AND FEWER PEOPLE ARE GOING INTO BANKS.

SO I THINK BY ENCOURAGING THAT USE, WE ARE ABLE TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM WITHOUT OPENING UP 31,000, YOU KNOW, MINI BANKS IN EACH POST OFFICE.

>> SO A COUPLE OF THINGS HERE, RIGHT?

SO FIRST OF ALL, THE POST OFFICE IS VERY MUCH TRUSTED.

SO THE EARLY 1911-1967 WHEN WE HAD A POSTAL SYSTEM HERE WHICH IN MANY PARTS OF THE WORLD WE HAVE THAT, ONE OF THE REASONS WAS PEOPLE DID NOT TRUST BANKS AND THEY WERE WILLING TO PUT THEIR DEPOSITS WITH THE POSTAL SERVICE.

NOW MORE TO RECENT TIMES, THE RECENT POSTAL REFORMS ACT ACTUALLY PRESSES THE POST OFFICE HAND TO LOSE MONEY BECAUSE THEY'RE LOSING BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

SO THIS IS ONE WAY DO THAT.

AND THE MINIMUM DEPOSIT WOULD BE $1-500, THEY COULD PUT THEIR PAYROLL AND GET A TRANSFER TO A DEBIT CARD AND AVOID PREDATORY PAYDAY LOANS AND SO ON.

AND YES, BANKING, BUT 2021 WAS LOOKING AT THE REPORT THAT ABOUT 4,000 BANKS BRANCHES CLOSED AROUND THE UNITED STATES.

SO I DO THINK THERE IS A GOOD SPACE THERE FOR PEOPLE TO TRUST AND PUT THEIR MONEY IN AND ALREADY THERE ARE FINANCIAL SERVICES AT THE POST OFFICE.

FOR EXAMPLE, MILLIONS OF MONEY ORDERS, WIRE TRANSFERS TO DIFFERENT PARTS OF THE WORLD.

SO I THINK THERE IS A POSITIVE GAIN TO HAVE, ESPECIALLY TO MAKE POSTAL SERVICE MORE VIABLE.

>> THE PROJECT HAS FAILED MISERABLY HERE.

THEY TRIED FOUR CITIES AND BRANCHES AND VERY FEW PEOPLE WERE USING THE SERVICES PLUS NOW YOU HAVE WAL-MART THAT YOU CAN GO INTO ANY WAL-MART WHERE THEY HAVE A MONEY CENTER WHERE THEY PROVIDE IF OF THE SAME SERVICES.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THE IDEA OF REAL ESTATE.

WHAT DOES IT HAVE.

IT HAS A LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.

RURAL SPACE NOTWITHSTANDING.

THE FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION FOR ME BECOMES WHERE DO THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO HAVE THE EXPERTISE TO RUN THIS PLACE GOING TO COME FROM?

ARE THE BIG BANKS GOING TO LEASE SPACE FROM THE POST OFFICE?

HOW WILL THAT DRIVE UP COSTS FOR THE ELDERLY?

DO YOU TRAIN THE INSIDERS AND HOW IS THIS NEW LABOR FORCE GOING TO BE PAID?

FUNDAMENTAL QUESTIONS I HAVE.

I WOULD ARGUE IT WOULD BE BETTER THAN THE CURRENT EXCHANGE BUT IF WE GO BACK A FEW YEARS AGO, WE STILL HAVEN'T FIGURED OUT THE QUESTION OF THE CURRENT LEADERSHIP OF THE POST OFFICE.

ARE WE ASKING THE CURRENT LEADERSHIP WHICH IS HIGHLY QUESTIONABLE BY SOME, TO TAKE ON A NEW RESPONSIBILITY IN TERMS OF MONEY?

>> THEY PRESUMABLY TOOK ON THAT RESPONSIBILITY AND DID IT OKAY UP UNTIL 1967.

I MEAN I WOULD, MY INITIAL THOUGHT WAS LIKE YOURS, THE PEOPLE I KNOW IN MY POST OFFICE, ARE THEY GOING TO BE ABLE TO BE BANKERS, TOO?

AND THAT WAS AN ISSUE.

>> SORRY, BUT I'M THINKING THAT ONE OF THE MAJOR THINGS MIGHT BE JUST CASHING A CHECK BECAUSE I KNOW WHEN YOU GO INTO A CHECK CASHING PLACE, THEY CHARGE A HUGE CHUNK OF THE CHECK.

>> PAYDAY LENDERS.

>> YES.

>> YOU CAN PUT THE PAYROLL IN A DEBIT CARD SO YOU CAN USE THAT MONEY ALSO.

>> ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN CHECK CASHING PLACE.

>> ANYTHING IS BETTER THAN THAT.

AND I KNOW THE CLERKS AT MY PLACE.

I DON'T HAVE TO TRUST THE GOVERNMENT.

I CAN TRUST THOSE PEOPLE.

AND THEY'RE THERE AND WE SMILE AT EACH OTHER.

>> BUT IT IS INTERESTING THAT THE TRIAL PROGRAM DID NOT, AND WOULD I LIKE TO KNOW MORE ABOUT THAT, TO KNOW WHY.

>> IT WAS LIMITED IN THE SERVICES BUT VERY FEW PEOPLE TOOK ADVANTAGE OF IT AND SO AGAIN, YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT HOW OFTEN I EVEN GO INTO MY BANK NOWADAYS.

IT'S VERY, VERY SELDOM.

SO I THINK RELYING ON PHYSICAL LOCATIONS, YOU KNOW, MICHAEL, YOU MENTIONED ALL THE POST OFFICES WE HAVE.

I THINK WE NEED TO CLOSE MANY OF THESE POST OFFICES IN ORDER TO INCREASE THE LIKELIHOOD THAT THE POST OFFICE CAN MEET ITS BUDGETARY NEEDS.

WE DON'T NEED THEM IN EVERY... >> THE SENATE VOTED, YOU KNOW, BIPARTISAN WAY JUST THIS WEEK, I THINK, TO STOP DRAINING POST OFFICE'S MONEY BY PUTTING THE RETIREES ON MEDICARE AND SO ON WHICH WAS A TERRIBLE... >> SUPPORTING EVERY ONE OF THOSE SENATORS AND REPRESENTATIVES HAVE AT LEAST ONE AND MANY TIMES MANY, MANY MORE LITTLE POST OFFICES IN... >> RICK, YOU ARE GIVING THIS IDEA AN F WHICH IS A BRIDGE TO AS AND Fs.

KRISTI YOUR F. >> AN F TO TURBO TAX FOR YEARS IT HAS USED DECEPTIVE TACTICS TO STEER LOW INCOME FILERS AWAY FROM THE FEDERALLY SUPPORTED FREE SERVICES THEY QUALIFIED FOR AND TOWARDS ITS OWN COMMERCIAL PRODUCTS.

NOW IT IS BEING SUED SUCCESSLY AND WILL BE REQUIRED TO PAY $441 MILLION IN RESTITUTION TO CLIENTS.

>> RICK.

>> MY F TO FIDELITY INVESTMENTS.

ONE OF THE LARGEST AND MOST PRESTIGIOUS INVESTMENT FIRMS RECENTLY ANNOUNCED IT WILL BEGIN ALLOWING INDIVIDUALS TO PURCHASE BITCOIN AS PART OF THEIR 401(K) RETIREMENT ACCOUNTS.

ENCOURAGING PEOPLE TO INVEST IN SUCH A RISKY ENVIRONMENT IS AN F FOR ME.

>> MY E TO THE MAJOR AMERICAN AIRLINES OVER STRESSING PILOTS, WORKING THEM INTO THE GROUND WHICH, IN MY VIEW CAN COMPROMISE PUBLIC SAFETY.

>> ANIRBAN?

>> WELL, I HAVE TO JOIN WITH KRISTI ABOUT THE F. ON THE SCREEN, THIS IS THE WAY TURBO TAX HAVE BEEN TURBO SWIND LING ITS CUSTOMERS.

THIS IS FALSE ADVERTISEMENT AND THEY'RE GOING TO PAY A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY.

THEY DID NOT CONFESS THEY'RE GUILTY BUT THAT'S THE NORM THESE DAYS ANYWAY.

>> OFF TO THE As.

KRISTI.

>> I'M GIVING AN A TO MY ALMA MATER SMITH COLLEGE WHOSE TRUSTEES ENABLED THE COLLEGE TO BE CARBON NEUTRAL BY 2030.

PLANNING TO CONVERT THEIR ENTIRE HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS FROM FOSSIL FUEL TO ELECTRICALLY POWERED GEOTHERMAL ENERGY.

THE EFFECT OF REDUCING THE COLLEGE'S WATER CONSUMPTION AND SAVE THEM A LOT OF OPERATING COSTS AS WELL.

>> QUICK AS HERE.

LESS THAN TWO MINUTES.

SO RICK.

>> A TO LIFE LONG TORONTO BLUEJAY FAN CAUGHT AARON JUDGE'S HOME RUN AND INSTEAD OF THROWING IT BACK, HE TURNED AND GAVE THE BALL TO A YOUNG YANKEES FAN 10-YEAR-OLD WHO WAS ECSTATIC AND GAVE HIM A HUGE HUG.

SHOWS HOW SPORTS CAN BRING PEOPLE TOGETHER.

>> MICHAEL.

>> MY A GOES TO ALL THE MOMS IN THE WORLD, ESPECIALLY MY MOM.

THANK YOU FOR ALL THAT YOU DO.

>> I WANT TO DO THAT, TOO.

HELLO TO MY MOM.

HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY EVERYBODY.

YES.

ANIRBAN.

>> MY A GOES TO MOTHER WHO RAISED GREAT CHILDREN IN NIGERIA.

THEY BUILT IN THEIR ROBOTIC CLASS IN A.I.

MEDICAL EQUIPMENT WITH YOU KNOW, JUST SCRAP MATERIAL THAT THEY FOUND.

MY ROBOT IS ALSO A SHORT FILM BY PHILLIP AND IT'S A CHARMING FILM TO WATCH.

>> ANYBODY GOT AN ADDITIONAL A?

WE HAPPEN TO HAVE AN EXTRA 30 SECONDS HERE?

ANYTHING ELSE GREAT GOING ON IN THE WORLD?

>> A TO "IVORY TOWER."

>> AND TO MICHAEL, OUR NEW PANELIST.

GOOD JOB, MICHAEL.

THANKS SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME HERE.

WELL, FOLKS, THANKS FOR WATCHING PLEASE LET US KNOW WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT WE'VE DISCUSSED.

YOU CAN WRITE US AT THE ADDRESSES ON YOUR SCREEN.

IF ANYBODY WRITES ANYMORE.

IF YOU MISS THE SHOW ANY FRIDAY NIGHT, TUNE US IN ON SATURDAY AFTERNOONS AT 5:30 OR WE'RE STREAMING ANY TIME AT WCNY.ORG.

STAY SAFE AND GOOD NIGHT.