♪ opening music ♪ ♪ <Gavin> Welcome to This Week in South Carolina.

I'm Gavin Jackson, with the retirement of Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer, a judge close to home is being mentioned as a possible replacement.

We talked with Kirk Randazzo, Chair of the Political Science department at the University of South Carolina, and political strategist Antjuan Seawright about the open seat and Judge Michelle Childs.

But first, more from this week.

Week four of the legislative session featured more budget hearings in the House, a joint assembly to elect several judges, the appearance of a special guest at the Statehouse and the slow burning Medical Marijuana debate in the Senate.

Former governor and US United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley visited with Governor Henry McMaster, as well as House and Senate leaders and lawmakers, for the first time since leaving office.

She pledged her support to help House Republicans win in elections this year, a different tone for when she was in office and backed primary challengers against several city members of her own party.

Horry County Republican Representative Russell Fry received the coveted endorsement of former President Donald Trump in a large but now shrinking field of challengers to unseat 7th Congressional District Republican Tom Rice, since the 5th term incumbent, who supported Trump's policies, voted to impeach the president for inciting the January 6 insurrection.

<Rep.

Fry> ...I think that voters expect their people to stand upright, and I think that the Republicans in Congress were pretty unified on this.

I mean, Tom was an outlier in this... entire endeavor.

So, you know, time and time again, especially in the last year, he has stepped away from the conservative principles that have guided him.

<Gavin> Meanwhile, the Senate is in its second week of debate on Beaufort Republican Senator Tom Davis's Medical Marijuana bill.

<Sen.

Davis> It doesn't make any sense for somebody who wants to get high, a Cheech and Chong, who's going out there buying marijuana very easily, getting what he wants, it doesn't make any sense.

Instead for them to say, well, wait a minute, here's a good idea.

Instead, why don't I try to go ahead and commit fraud than to participate in a medical cannabis program and subject myself to a felony penalty where I could be imprisoned for five years to get something that's going to cost me a lot more than what I can buy down that street.

<Gavin> Up in Washington, talk ramped up around President Joe Biden's shortlist to replace Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer, House Majority Whip Jim Clyburn and Senator Lindsey Graham kept up a media blitz for Judge Michelle Childs, a federal district court judge from Columbia and recently named nominee to the DC Court of Appeals.

>> I can't think of a better person for President Biden to consider for the Supreme Court, than Michelle Childs.

She has wide support in our state.

She's considered to be a fair minded, highly gifted jurist.

<Rep.

James Clyburn> They're calling this lady unqualified.

I wish you would put her resume up against anybody's currently sitting on the Supreme Court and see what their resumes were...at this time in their careers.

They don't touch hers, and there are others in this group, the same way.

<Gavin> President Biden said he'll announce his nominee later this month.

Joining me now to discuss the Supreme Court is Antjuan Seawright.

He's the CEO and founder of the public relations firm Blueprint Strategy.

Antjuan, welcome back.

>> So glad to be with you again, Gavin.

<Gavin> So Antjuan, let's talk Supreme Court and all the hubbub around.

It's been a very busy week, as you know, tell us what your read is on the situation right now, with the announcement of Justice Stephen Breyer, announcing his retirement and just this full court press that we're seeing from some South Carolina lawmakers to fill that spot?

<Antjuan Seawright> Well, two things I think are important for the sake of tone setting.

Number one, I thank the Supreme Court Justice for his longtime service to this country.

The Supreme Court is one of those entities in this country that's insulated or isolated from politics, and so the politics doesn't always influence their decisions.

I think this particular Justice is a pure demonstration of that.

Secondly, we are here in this moment, because of the Majority Whip from South Carolina, the Honorable James E. Clyburn.

It was at the South Carolina debate in Charleston, hosted by CBS, sponsored by the Congressional Black Caucus, where the Majority Whip gave advice and counsel to the President, that it was very important to mention that if and when there's a vacancy on the court, that he would...nominate someone, a Black woman to fill that vacancy, which would be historic in its own way.

Lo' and behold, the President Candidate Joe Biden used the debate opportunity to do so, and it was the highest rated moment of the debate.

...we all know what happened from here.

So, here we are now, Gavin?

Good question.

I know there's a list, and then there's a short list.

What I'm so proud of, and I think what South Carolina should be proud about is that Judge J. Michelle Childs, from South Carolina is on the shortlist, and that has been confirmed by the White House to be a potential nominee to the highest court in our nation.

<Gavin> So, Antjuan, so let's drill down a little bit more on this whole role that Clyburn played in this.

He got the endorsement.

He gave his endorsement to Joe Biden after that debate.

That was a big reason why.

There was some controversy about Biden even taking that advice in the first place.

What do you think made the difference there for the President?

<Antjuan> Well, I think it was manufactured or made up controversy.

I think, probably the lump that was in the carpet around the idea of using the lingo or language was the first half of the debate, the President or candidate Joe Biden, did not have any opportunity to insert that into the debate.

- It has been written, and as the Majority Whip has said, on many occasions, himself, he went backstage halftime of the debate, and reminded Candidate Joe Biden, it is very important that you mention the idea that if and when there's a vacancy, that vacancy will be nominated by a Black woman.

...So I think very soon after the halftime of the debate, candidate Joe Biden came out and mentioned that in his, one of his debate answers, >> Can you talk about the significance of that response at the time and just where we are right now, for Black America?

<Antjuan> Well, two things at that point in time, the candidate Joe Biden's campaign and his candidacy was on life support.

So, it was literally the political IV, I think that we needed and necessary to take him from life support, to a reasonable hospital room, if you know what I mean, and he went from there to go on to be our nominee, but it was important one because it was February, and we're in South Carolina, a place where over 53% of the people who were going to cast their vote in that primary, were going to be African American, and the fact that he mentioned a woman, a Black woman, something that never been done in history.

If you look back over time, the most loyal and consequential voting block or constituency in the country, are Black women.

I don't know how you can talk about this 200 plus year old idea called America without mentioning how Black women have been on the front line leading the charge towards progress, and so it was a very significant moment.

<Gavin> ...regardless of who the nominee is, I know we're talking about Federal District Court Judge Michelle Childs as a front runner.

That's Jim Clyburn's favorite.

That's Lindsey Graham's favorite, sounds like, as well.

There are still other people on that shortlist we can talk about but regardless of who gets nominated, what candidate gets forward, pushed forward, how do you see Clyburn's response to playing such a pivotal role in this historic moment?

>> Well, I think that when we finish this first rough draft history, I think the pages will read when the ink dries, that Jim Clyburn made the American experiment, accessible and affordable for all, and including in that, we will talk about the South Carolina endorsement, We will talk about how he helped mold and shape the most diverse presidential cabinet in our nation's history.

We will talk about how over 51% of the people who cast their vote in that South Carolina primary cast their vote for Joe Biden because of him.

We will talk about how the most consequential pieces of legislation of our day was ushered into law, because he would have served as his Majority Whip, the third highest ranking Democrat to usher in those legislation.

As you know, the job of the Whip is to count the vote.

So I think history will be kind to him on that regard, and if we're fortunate enough as the people of South Carolina Democrats, Republicans, Black, White, Upstate, Lowcountry, middle of the state, if we're fortunate enough to get the nomination of Judge...J. Michelle Childs, as the nominee to the Supreme Court, who I think will be confirmed, I think the history will read it will be it was because of the voice and the leadership and the strength, and I would probably say the net worth and network of James E. Clyburn.

<Gavin> So Antjuan, we've been talking about Clyburn's influence on the president and the candidate at the time, Joe Biden.

But let's talk about his current influence, right now, when we're talking about strategy for the Senate confirmation process.

We've been hearing a lot from Senator Lindsey Graham, both him and Clyburn have been on a pretty big media blitz right now, but we also saw Senator Graham tweeting out a picture the other day of him having lunch with not only Clyburn, but also Senator Tim Scott.

I don't know how often that happens.

Maybe you do.

Maybe it's never happened, but it's safe to say what they were talking about.

I think they confirmed talking about Judge Michelle Childs, but what's going on there, right there?

What's the tactic?

What needs to happen for this to actually get across the finish line for Michelle Childs?

<Antjuan> Well, I think the one thing Judge Childs has in her favor other than the praise and the stamp of approval from the Majority Whip James E. Clyburn.

I think she's one of the only candidates mentioned, where there's a public relations effort, from a bipartisan perspective.

We know 50 votes can confirm a judge in the United States Senate.

However, most judges throughout history with the exception of few have been confirmed on a bipartisan basis.

I think it will be win for the country and the presidency and from a historical perspective, if the next Supreme Court justice could be confirmed with a bipartisan vote, with the support of Senator Lindsey Graham, J. Michelle Childs will have at least 51 votes.

I'm also convinced that the other senator from South Carolina Senator Tim Scott will come along as well, as some other senators who are on the Republican side of the aisle, will also want to be a part of history in voting for the first Black woman to be nominated and confirmed to the Supreme Court.

<Gavin> Well, the White House this week said that they don't really care about what it looks like on the legislative aspect, or how this works in Congress and who's for who, but I have to assume like we're talking about right here is that having that bipartisan support is just going to make it an even easier win for the Biden administration to get their pick through in a least controversial way as possible.

What do you think?

<Antjuan> Well, I think this President pledged to do things in a bipartisan manner, and I think his record and his posture has reflected that from a legislative standpoint, and for some of his nominees for other things within this administration, but it's not just the bipartisan nature around what Michelle Childs can bring to the conversation.

It's the simple fact, Gavin, you got to think about it.

There's not a southern voice on the United States Supreme Court.

Guess what, most of the cases that have been coming to the highest court in the land have been coming from the south.

I think that's important.

When you look at her background, and her life experiences.

Not any other contender brings that to the table.

If you look at history, there is not a single justice in the past sixty years, that have been nominated or confirmed that has a public school background when it comes to graduate or undergraduate education.

Michelle Childs does that, and you look at her experience, whether it's in state government, running agencies.

If you look at how she's ruled on many cases, she has the background, experience, and the credentials to make a heck of a Supreme Court justice.

And I don't think you will get too many people who can argue against that.

<Gavin> So Antjuan, with about two minutes left, I want to ask you just some of the negative criticism we've been hearing about this entire process.

What do you make of it when people are saying this is affirmative action?

This is reverse racism, a confusing term, in its own right.

What do you think about that kind of feedback about this whole process?

<Antjuan> Well, two things, none of those people who were around, did anything about Ronald Reagan campaigning on nominating a woman to the Supreme Court, when he ran for the presidency.

None of those people had anything to say about that.

So, I think it's funny how those people have a lot to say about the idea of nominating a Black woman.

Gavin, truth be told, the browning of America is happening right before our eyes.

I think our country's leadership at all levels should reflect the demographics of the ever so fast changing demographics of this country.

And guess what, one of the fastest and most intense growing populations in our country are Black women.

Why not do historical things?

We have a Latino in the court.

We have a number of White men.

We have White women on the court.

Why not nominate the most consequential constituency in a generation, a Black woman to the court and now would be very good and very handsome, if that Black woman came from the south.

Here's what I know, and here's what you know, politics is a is a contact sport.

...those of us who have been able to navigate this business and have done okay, is because we've demonstrated the ability to take a licking and keep on ticking.

The old Timex saying.

I do believe that J. Michelle Childs has probably mastered that and any other candidate on that list, because you can't be a Black person, in particular, a Black woman in this country without having to take a licking and keep on ticking at some point in your life.

<Gavin> And last question, Antjuan.

There's been some pushback from some Democrats in this recent Washington Post piece I read about.

Her stance, Judge Childs' stance on labor laws and things like that, but not all Democrats agree with this fact that she's anti-labor, and anti-union.

Do you see that being an issue and also just overall.

Where do you see the momentum going right now, with this pick, with the situation?

>> Well, I'll say this Gavin.

People evolve and people change.

That's just human nature.

What was important yesterday may not be as important today.

What's important today may not be as important tomorrow and people's position change.

Thank God men and women can grow.

And I would think and hope that people will not look at one thing about her background or her experiences and try to use that as a weapon of political mass destruction or distraction from nominating an overqualified Black woman to the United States Supreme Court.

I don't know a candidate that exists in this country that will not have something that someone will not have an issue with.

As Democrats, we had a lot of issues with Kavanaugh, Judge Kavanaugh and the latest Supreme Court Justice that was confirmed by a McConnell dominated Senate, and so I think history will prove time and time again, where there's always been something that someone will perhaps have an issue with, but as long as the good outweighs the bad, I think that none of us will have a reason to complain.

<Gavin> Any betting odds right now on where Michelle Childs stands?

<Antjuan> Well, I do know she's on the shortlist, and that all by itself is a tremendous accomplishment, considering the number of judges we have of qualified Black women around the country.

I do believe this President will not forget who butters...his bread at a time when his bread was dry and needed some butter, and I don't believe the history of the body of work of Joe Biden will speak anything differently other than he will nominate the most qualified person to serve on the Supreme Court because that person will supersede his term as president.

<Gavin> Gotcha.

Very interesting insight from Antjuan Seawright.

He's the CEO and founder of the public relations firm Blueprint Strategy.

Antjuan, thanks as always.

>> Thank you for having me.

>> Now, for more analysis, I'm joined by Kirk Randazzo.

He's a political science professor and Department Chair at the University of South Carolina.

Kirk, welcome back.

>> Thank you very much.

I appreciate being here.

>>Kirk, let's get... back into this Last time we talked, I guess it was back in 2020, when we were looking at the late Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, who had just passed away.

There was a vacancy on the court.

We were weeks away from Election Day.

This situation is much different.

We have a justice who is going to retire at the end of the term.

Tell us what's going on right now, the state of play, as you see it.

>> Well, it's interesting hearing Stephen Breyer announce his retirement simply because of the fact that as you mentioned, in 2020, Ruth Bader Ginsburg died while a president of the opposite party was in office, and there were a lot of individuals that had encouraged her to retire when Barack Obama was still president precisely so that Obama could make a replacement appointment.

She chose not to, and now the court has swung pretty far in the opposite direction of her ideology.

So, Stephen Breyer's retirement seems very strategic in order to avoid a potential similar situation to what we had with Ginsburg.

<Gavin> ...you say strategic.

Can we also say political?

I mean, I know they try to be a little apolitical in the court, but how do you see that, when you mesh that?

<Kirk> Yeah, I think strategic probably lines up with political in this regard, because not only do you have a Democrat in the White House, but you've got the Senate, even though it's a 50/50 split, with Kamala Harris being able to cast a tie breaking vote, you do have a Democratic Senate that could get a confirmation done.

<Gavin> It's also a very fragile majority right there, too, when you're talking about Kamala Harris, and also talking about that senator from New Mexico who just suffered a stroke who's recovering, but, you know, that also adds to everything, of course, but then you look at the possibility of a bi-partisan push for at least one candidate that we've heard of, ...Federal District Court Judge Michelle Childs here from South Carolina.

What do you make of that push?

We're seeing it from Majority Whip Clyburn and also Senator Lindsey Graham, who sits on the Judiciary Committee in the Senate that is in control of these, of the nomination process, confirmation process.

<Kirk> Yeah, I think Representative Clyburn, this should come as no surprise.

I mean, he has made it very, very clear that his relationship with Joe Biden is so unique that he is using that influence to sort of move President Biden in particular positions.

I mean, we know that Joe Biden really owes the presidency, in no small part to Jim Clyburn and his endorsement prior to the South Carolina Primary.

So having Jim Clyburn talk about Michelle Childs, it really comes as no surprise, but to see Senator Lindsey Graham come out in support.

Now, Joe Biden might be thinking a possible bipartisan win, which for him that's near and dear to his heart.

He wants to be a bipartisan president, and you mentioned the makeup of the Senate, even though it's a 50/50 split.

We know that Senators Joe Manchin, Kyrsten Sinema don't always walk lockstep and barrel with the rest of the Democratic Party, and Senator Lujan from New Mexico is recovering from that stroke.

So, right now having Republican support really is crucial for Joe Biden.

and for Lindsey Graham to come out this past week in favor of Michelle Childs, I think that moves Judge Childs to the front runner position for the nomination.

>>Kirk, can we stick with that for a bit longer, too and look at, you know, Lindsey Graham, he's a USC Law School graduate, and so is Michelle Childs.

What's the vibe on campus?

I know you're not in the law school, but you're right next to it.

You hear things.

People talk.

What are you talking to students about?

What's it like on campus right now with this buzz?

<Kirk> I'll tell you, it's just excitement on campus about this possibility, because, as you mentioned, Michelle Childs, not only does she bring diversity in terms of race, and gender, being the first potentially African American female nominated, but she brings diversity in terms of geography.

The only other justice with ties to the south is Clarence Thomas.

Everybody else is pretty much northeast, sort of New England.

She also brings diversity in terms of her education, and coming out of a public law school when everyone else is basically from Harvard and Yale, that is tremendous.

So, the students on campus, not just in the law school, but across campus, are excited about the possibility of a Gamecock getting on to the Supreme Court and that's actually very, very cool to see.

>>Yeah, I've been hearing a lot of that same enthusiasm at the Statehouse, as well, from lawmakers, but kind of focus on that education aspect here.

Lindsey Graham has really been making a push for this anti Ivy League approach.

Do you think that's really to maybe garner a bit more support from Republicans, who will, you know, try and give Biden a win, essentially, that's not really a controversial one, because it's not changing the makeup of the court?

>> Yeah, I think what Lindsey Graham is doing is actually very, very smart, very shrewd on his part.

Since this nomination is not going to move the needle at all, in terms of the ideological makeup of the court itself.

He is changing the narrative away from race, and talking about other things like the educational background, and making that switch, I think, is giving other members of his party room to come out in favor of Judge Childs, but do it in a way that doesn't play up any kind of racial politics, or may alienate some of the Republican base or things along those lines, and I think that's an incredibly smart thing that Lindsey Graham has done.

<Gavin> ...then when we talk about just you know, the race aspect of it, there have been some people who have been critical of it.

Do you see that slowing anything down?

Do you think that's going to be a wrench in any of these plans going forward?

Or do you think they're going to maybe follow suit with Lindsey Graham saying, we need to make this court more - look more like America?

<Kirk> I don't think it's going to slow things down at all.

I think these are talking points that folks are putting out like Ted Cruz.

I think they're putting these out just to give a nod to their base, But in the end, I do think there will be a sizeable number of Republicans that vote in favor, especially if it's Judge Childs that's nominated.

If it's one of the other candidates, that might be a little bit different, because you don't have the educational diversity to fall back on, but if Judge Childs becomes the nominee, I could see a fair number of Republicans voting in favor of her confirmation.

>>Kirk, with about two minutes left, I want to ask you about age.

There has been some talk about age.

Judge Childs is 55.

If she serves for the same amount of time as Stephen Breyer did, 27 years, she'd be younger than Steven Breyer, who's 83, if she were to retire, or anything happened to her at that point.

So, do you think age will be a factor in this when they're looking at some other candidates who are also in their early 50s?

Amy Coney Barrett, was 49, I believe, when she got confirmed to the court.

So how do you see that, you know, situation, an aspect of this?

>> Yeah, I think age very much plays into things because all presidents want to leave a legacy, and the Supreme Court is a great place for that legacy to play out.

Knowing that those... justices are there for life, If you can get someone confirmed that's in their late 40s, early 50s and can spend multiple decades on the court.

That really is a tremendous legacy to leave, and so I think we are no longer going to see nominees that are over 60, 65 years old.

We're going to see individuals that are a bit younger, again late 40s, early 50s, in the hopes that they can serve at least 30 years on the court.

<Gavin> ...you said she's a front runner at this point, in your opinion?

...How do you see this going in the next couple of weeks when we expect an announcement at the end of the month?

>> Yeah, I think she's very much the front runner, given what Lindsey Graham said this past week.

So, it's ironic she's in the middle of a confirmation right now, for the Circuit Court of Appeals in DC.

So, I think that is going to kind of go through very, very quickly, in the hopes that, that confirmation gets done prior to when President Biden announces his nominee, and it should be just more of a pro forma kind of vote in the Senate to confirm her to the Supreme Court.

<Gavin> Yeah, so even still, there will be a vacancy to fill here in South Carolina from the Feds, so.

we'll be watching with Kirk Randazzo.

He's a professor of political science at the University of South Carolina, who's also department chair.

Thanks.

<Kirk> Thank you.

Appreciate being here.

>>To stay up to date with the latest news throughout the week.

Check out the South Carolina Lede.

It's a podcast that I host twice a week that you can find on South Carolina public radio.org or wherever you find podcasts.

For South Carolina ETV, I'm Gavin Jackson.

Be well, South Carolina.

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