Welcome to N'digo Studio.

We've got a fashion show today and we're going to be talking to one on one, just he and I, to Mr. Marcellas Reynolds.

He's from Chicago and he loves Chicago as a model.

Went overseas.

Lives in L.A.

But he came home because he's got something wonderful.

He's got a wonderful project, Supreme Models.

And it is a story of 75 models 75 years ago, what they went through, what black models went through to get to where we are today.

And he also has a six part series that is on YouTube.

And we're going to talk to Marcellus today.

Find out what he did, why he did, how he did, and what the stories really reveal.

Cozy Conversations Drop.

Drop the knowledge That's for real... Funding for this program was provided by.... State of Illinois Representative LaShawn Ford, Community Trust, the Field Foundation.

Commonwealth Edison, Broadway, Chicago and Governors State University.

Welcome to Welcome Home.

Welcome home.

Welcome home.

Chicago.

Chicago's very ya ya ya.

Okay, you left us so you had to you went to model and you went overseas first.

Yeah.

That was your first modeling job?

Yeah, the first time I actually went overseas, anywhere was as a model.

I went to London and I spent a couple of months in London and spent, like three months in London.

Loved it, then went to Milan.

Loved it.

Really didn't love love Milan, because I was working almost every day in London because the market is very similar in London to the United States, went to Milan, didn't work really at all, but loved other aspects of Milan because that's really where like the model culture is worked a lot in Paris.

Love that.

Love that loves Paris.

You doing runway?

I was doing no, I was like a big print boy because I'm actually a little short and but I had like a huge personality and was like a good mover, you know what I mean?

Like, I was the boy that was like, the photographer.

I was like, jump.

And I would be like, What do you mean by jump?

Because I can jump like this.

I could really jump.

I could do a run in the jump, like, you know, And I was like, the boy that.

How much.

That right do you want it to be elegant?

Do you want it to be sporty?

Do you want to be?

I was like that boy.

I was like a real mover.

The thing that I didn't like about Paris was I didn't speak French.

And I'm a very language dependent person.

So I hated, like, not knowing what other people were saying about me, like that kind of thing.

But, you know, Paris is beautiful, especially back then, you know, fabulous as it was.

Like, So let's get to today.

So you decided eight years ago, am I correct that you were going to do a book?

No.

In 2011, I came up with the idea for supreme models.

Had the idea emerge.

Having been a model, then transitioning into being a fashion stylist, having worked in Chicago, in retail, I had this love of like fashion and women and clothes, and it was almost like all of these, like little parts of my life led to this big part of my life as a fashion stylist.

I always collected art books, and I used those as a as inspiration.

The big picture, big picture table, top.

Table, top books, sort of big Tom Ford book and the Chanel book and all of the Dior books and the YSL book.

And in 2011, a book came out called Vogue Faces of Beauty was oversize, was super expensive.

And I got it came to my house like four in the afternoon.

Amazon dropped it off, ripped into it, read it from cover to cover.

And there were only two black models included in that book that had 100 models in it, and it was Iman and Naomi Campbell.

Wow.

It was a really bad photo of Iman, and I was incensed.

So if you go on Amazon to this day, there's a review that I wrote at 2:00 in the morning where I was like, I gave it one star, and if I could have given a zero stars, I would have given it zero stars.

But I was like, Where's Tyra Banks?

Where is Veronica Webb?

Where is Liya Kebede?

Where's Alek Wek?

And that was the moment I was like, Are there any black model books?

And there weren't not art books.

There were some books that told the story about individual black models or there was a wonderful book by model named Barbara Summers or Barbara Sumners, but it was like a it was more like a novel that had some pictures and it wasn't an oversize table top.

So your story, you go back to black models and you tell the story of when they had to mix their own make up.

It wasn't even a make up for them.

They had to do their own hair on the runway.

And you talk about a lady that we would be remiss if we didn't talk about Eunice Johnson and what her contribution was to the fashion world, to the mount model world.

Talk about talk about Eunice Johnson for me, what she meant to what she as a Chicagoan, Paris on the runway.

What did the Ebony Fashion Fair really, really mean?

Well you can't talk about black models without talking about Ebony magazine, because Ebony magazine really created the need for black models.

Before that, there was no such thing really as a black model because magazines, white magazines didn't have to cover black people.

And what year when you got in 1945.

45.

When John H. Johnson created Ebony magazine, he created a need for the black model to be represented in his magazines.

So you have these wonderful models like Ophelia, Devoy and Sarah Lou Harris and Dorothy Italia's, but they were like light skinned, almost white, could pass for white Ophelia.

Duvall went to the Vogue fashion school and they thought she was white.

They thought she was like Italian.

And she didn't tell them because she wanted to go to model school.

And she was one of the first people to start her own modeling agency.

And she helped create what we now know as like black models.

Then you have somebody like Helen Williams in the fifties who was the first dark skinned model to book major campaigns.

Then you have the sixties, and that's when they got really exciting for black models.

So we're looking at color.

We're really so it's not just black models coming into the field, but we're looking at skin color we're.

Looking at and the documentary really tackles that because when Ebony started, it created a need for black models, but they were light skinned.

Models.

So how black do you really want it?

Right?

You know what I mean?

And of course, it's like it's like the cultural norms of the time.

It's like, think about it's the 1940s and people are servicemen are coming back from the war and and there is this sort of like new black renaissance that's happening.

But we're still America and it's still like the lighter you are, the more you're the, the closer to white you are, the more beautiful.

And it was also about hair.

And it was also always about hair.

So it really wasn't until like the sixties when you had the black as beautiful movement where we started talking about, you know, natural hair and dark skin and what black people sort of really look alike look like when they weren't, you know, bleaching their skin or perm in their hair.

And what was really beautiful about that time was that was right around the time that Eunice Johnson started going to Paris and she was buying clothes that would appear in Ebony magazine.

That was Yves Saint Laurent.

She was doing it with Saint Laurent.

She's sitting front row next to the richest of the rich and the designers were letting her sit front row because she had money.

They were giving Eunice clothes.

No, Eunice was buying.

She was buying her clothes.

She was buying those designer outfits.

And it was hard for her because there were some shows she couldn't go to even though she had the money to afford them.

There were some designers who didn't let her in the show.

There was some designers that did not let her in their showroom.

But then there were designers like Yves Saint Laurent that allowed her to like, come and sit front row at the show.

And there's these wonderful pictures.

I think even in the documentary there she is in the front row, only black face in the room.

But there she is.

Yes, she anorexic and she bought those clothes, put them in the magazines.

She did articles in Ebony talking about European fashion.

She really educated black people about the couture, about high end fashion.

And that inspired her to do Ebony Fashion fair.

And an out of everything fashion fair.

The models didn't have makeup that inspired a new makeup.

Inspired makeup line.

Pat Cleveland in the documentary was one of the she started her career as a model, and now she's like the legend.

She started her career as a model in every facet of there.

One of the things that was just a highlight in the documentary is you talk about Versace in Paris and how that really not only changed, will it change the game for black models, but it changed the game for fashion.

Talk about that for me.

So the battle of her side was actually people think that the Battle of Vici happened in the sixties.

It actually happened in the early seventies, but it was an offshoot of like all the successes sort of of the sixties.

So you have these designers on Fifth Avenue, the American designers that really used black models as runway girls, because black models could walk, Black models brought their dresses to life.

So you have Stephen Burrows, who was a black designer, and you have Oscar de la Renta and you have Anne Klein and you have, of course, Halston and most of Boston's girls.

His cabin, which was a collection of models, were black girls, you know, like Pat Cleveland.

And he later on, he used demand, but he was using a model named Bethann Hardison as well.

The Bethann is a really pivotal person in fashion.

She started her career working in working in the shops on Fifth Avenue, and Willie Smith, legendary designer, would see her walking to work.

And, you know, Bethann would have on her outfit and she'd be moving down the streets in New York on her way.

And he would be like, Who is that girl?

Where is she?

Do you know the black girl with the short hair?

Finally, somebody.

Watching that movie.

Watching that movement.

And he made her a model.

He was like, I want you to show my clothes.

If I have to go show my clothes at a department store to a buyer or to the press, I want you to be the model.

He made Bethann a model, and Bethann was the kind of person that was like, I'm going to keep my day job, but I'll leave my day job and go hang out with you for an hour.

This modeling thing might not.

Work, Mom.

They might not work.

It was very practical, and she was one of the models that went to the Battle of Versaille And so it's five European designers versus five American designers.

And it was really a fundraiser to restore the Palace of Versailles, which is like fallen into disrepair after decades after, you know, hundreds of years.

And it was supposed to be a showcase for both of the for the American designer who did sportswear.

And it was supposed to be a showcase for the Parisian designers.

But somewhere along the line they had the Parisian designers are like, why are they even coming here?

They can't compare to us.

And, you know, the American designers were like, All right, then it's a battle.

And the difference was the main difference was that the American designers bought a bunch of black models because that's what Fifth Avenue was.

It was like white models and black models on the runway together doing the shows.

And the Europeans, of course, were all white models.

The Europeans went first.

They showed their collections boring, 2 hours, two and a half hours, you know, of white, you know, I think that at one point there was like a break where like there were ballet dancers.

And then when the Americans came on, it was about fashion.

It was a fashion show.

You know, you got like Bethann Strut and you got Pat Cleveland doing her thing, all her twirls.

You got Bonnie Blair, you got all these wonderful Fifth Avenue girls working that organza and bringing those gowns to life.

And literally, Bethann says that within the first season, because there were five different designers with show, there's a moment where she strikes a pose and all of a sudden all the people in the audience throw their like throw their programs, their programs into the air.

And then it's just like applause and stomping.

And the.

The.

Designers knew.

They won it Yeah, models thing.

So black models knew that they won the show for the Americans.

Let's be very clear.

About so So okay so that's the runway.

All right, runway.

So then what happens after they come back is now the magazines began to look differently right at the black models.

So there was always I say this in the documentary during every decade from the 1940s with the advent of Ebony magazine, there have always been black models.

Trends of the time sort of define how many black models we see, how much they work and the amount of black models working.

So we're talking when it's one or two.

We're talking one or two.

You've got the you've got the mid-forties, the Fifties brings in Helen Williams and that brings in like a more diverse definition of beauty with darker skinned models as well.

Then you've got the sixties where you've got Don't Yo Luna, who becomes the first black woman on the cover of British Vogue, was from Detroit.

Looks like an Italian.

Looks Italian people, people kind of diss don't yell because she was sort of they say she denied her blackness.

She was exotic.

She was exotic.

And that's what happens.

They always cast the black model as exotic, you know what I mean?

And so she had to play that exotic thing up to, like, work, you know what I mean?

But you can't take away her impact.

She was the first black woman on the cover of Americans Harper's Bazaar, which was major, because back then, Harper's Bazaar was as big as Vogue and she was the first black woman on the cover of British Vogue.

And that was eight years before American Vogue put Beverly Johnson on its cover as the first as the first black model to appear on the cover of American Vogue.

That's one of the things about the documentary that I'm a stickler for.

I'm a stickler for facts.

I'm a stickler for history.

And so people will say, oh, Beverly Johnson was the first black woman on the cover of Vogue.

She was the first black woman on the cover of American Vogue.

She's actually the third black woman to cover any vote.

The first was Danielle Luna, who was on the cover of British Vogue.

And so you can't take away that person's legacy in that person's history, because when Danielle appeared on the cover of Vogue in the UK, it caused advertisers to pull their advertising.

You know what I mean?

But she did that.

She did that when she appeared on the cover of American Harper's Bazaar.

The people that put her on the cover lost their jobs, you know what I mean?

So it was it was revolutionary.

It was revolutionary.

And somebody took the hit to make that happen, you know?

So I think, yeah, we can this Don Yeah, but she was playing the game.

If you're going to work, if you're going to exalt me for being this exotic beauty and I need to make money, I'm going to play that up and she was one of the first models period of any color to become a film actress.

And she was Fellini's muse and she was a Andy Warhol girl.

You know, in that period, one of my favorite models, and I think people understand this.

And she was she's a Chicagoan, Daphne Maxwell Reid, who black people know is light skinned Aunt Viv, which I hate that that's.

But, you know, she famously replaced Vivian, the first aunt Viv.

It was like the dark skinned woman went to the kitchen and out came the light skinned Viv.

But Daphne maxwell Reid, who people know for being the second Aunt Viv on The Fresh Prince of Bel Air.

She was the first black woman to appear on the cover of Glamor magazine.

So here we are Today we're picking up a magazine, Elle Vogue, Harper's Bazaar, Vanity Fair.

Not so unusual to see a black model one of the things we can see did when she was on Vogue is she was like, yes, I'll be on Vogue.

But my terms are I bring the photographer, I control the styling.

I control talk about what that really means.

Well, I always say that the black model is the vanguard for change.

Whatever is like happening in the bigger culture, the black model becomes like the example of that.

And that's what we're talking about.

The in the forties, it's like skin models, then it's dark skinned models because that was happening in the culture.

Black people were reclaiming their idea of beauty.

They were taking control of their narrative.

The naturals and afros and, and I'm not relaxed in my hair and I still want to be able to go to work and wear my natural hair, that sort of thing.

And so it happens.

I always say it happens in fashion first because it happens in advertising, because if if, if advertisers can make money off of the black consumer, black image, here we go.

And that's sort of what we're seeing.

That's sort of what we're seeing now is like with the advent of Black Lives Matter and the George Floyd murder and then the pandemic.

And we really started having these conversations on social and the advent of social media, we really that really changed the game for the black person, I think, and the black model, because we could literally as something was happening, we could actually show it to like and it becomes and it could become viral.

Instant.

Instantly.

Instantly.

So now we're in this place where it's like black models in their stories matter because the black model could actually go to the public and tell a story.

It wasn't hidden as it's been in the past decade.

So talk about the images.

So because with the black model, the image changes, the image, the face, like you say, it really becomes the face pop culture of black folk.

Talk about those images, what those images meant.

I think we're going to talk about the images.

I think you have to talk about sort of the big moments in modeling.

And they become, to me, the big moments and sort of in this fashion in black American history.

So, of course, we're going to talk about don't y'all doing don't on the on the cover of British Vogue.

We're going to talk about Daphne on the cover of Glamor.

There was a black woman that was on the cover of of Karen LaBrie, Carole LaBrie on the cover of Italian Vogue in 1971.

Then we, of course, going to talk about Beverly Johnson's legendary Re American Vogue cover in 1974.

We have to talk about the arrival of Iman in 1975.

But we get into the eighties and we get into like Naomi, Naomi Campbell, the second, you know, Naomi being the first black woman on the cover of Paris Vogue and that was only because she complained to Yves Saint Laurent about not being on the cover of Vogue and and about all her little white friends.

Getty I love this story.

It's Naomi Campbell is like a teenager.

And in Linda Evangelista and Christy Turlington are her friends and they're getting covers every 2 minutes.

And Linda goes to St Lawrence.

It's like, I'm not going in covers like they are.

And even Saint Laurent is like, I got you, girl.

So he calls up he calls up Paris Vogue, and he's like, If you don't put Naomi on the cover, I'm pulling my advertising.

And they put Naomi Campbell on the cover.

Got a little attention.

That would get you a little tip.

So kudos for Naomi to walking over and saying to ease, being able to communicate what she wanted.

And kudos to East Saint Laurent for being powerful enough to say she deserves a cover.

You know, and kudos to Paris Vogue for being like, we're not just going to put anybody on the cover.

And so if you have to put someone, it's, you know, Naomi.

Are the are are the Brits are Europe's the European magazines maybe a head of America?

Because listen to what you're saying.

The magazines that did the first black models, not in the US, they were British.

And even today Paris we have a the fashion editor of the London Edward Enninful.

Right Italian Vogue did an all black issue in 2008 and it was revolutionary.

But there are so many problems with that issue.

So you do an all black issue and you do four different covers with black models on the cover.

Great.

Every editorial in the magazine is black, but the next step that they needed to take was putting all black.

Ads.

In those in that magazine problem.

So as you flip through the magazine, the real money in fashion is the model that's in the advertising in the makeup campaign.

Those editorial girls are maybe getting two, three, $400 for that day.

But that model that's in the advert and the advertising, 10,000, 20,000, 25, 50, if it's a makeup campaign, it could be, you know, $1,000,000 contract.

So you give us the all black vogue with these wonderful issues of editorials, but the real money is in the advertising and when you flip through those pictures, that's where the real money is.

And Narrows are all black models.

So it would have been interesting if that editor Franca Sozzani had taken that extra step and said to all the advertisers, I need you to shoot black models for your ads for this issue.

So now you've got Vogue Italia, the all black issue, which becomes their biggest selling issue ever.

They have to reprint it multiple times because it is flying off the stands.

The next month.

They go right back to business as usual.

There you go.

So there's a white model.

Of a special issue.

Only one time.

One time.

That's call the Black History Month syndrome.

Right?

So, okay, so tell me, define for me style.

What is style?

Oh, my God.

That's such a big question.

You know, in a previous life we talked about that I used to be a fashion stylist.

Style for me is how an individual chooses to present themselves.

Okay, you can take ten people and give them the same ten pieces and accessories, but you're going to get ten different those ten different pieces or accessories are going to be worn a different way.

And that style.

Now define fashion for me.

Fashion is literally the pieces that you choose to wear.

In my opinion.

Fashion to me is also armor, especially for black people.

Is it art?

Fashion can be art.

Fashion can definitely be art.

You know, I have a huge reverence for fashion.

It changed my life.

I was a little black boy from the South Side of Chicago that grew up poor, and I got my first job in retail at 14, working in a woman's clothing store and water tower.

And I started off as a as a stock boy, and I had this manage her, who was very astute and I would be selling from the ladder as I'm changing a light bulb and those women would always come over to me and they'd be like, What do you think of this?

And I would be like, Girl, yes, you need to get that in pink.

And there's a black leather skirt and it has a it has a, I think they call it a bustle, it has a bustle in the back and you need to put that with that sweater.

And my manager saw that and she was like, Get off the ladder, get on the sales floor, I'll cut your hair.

I'm going to take you and buy you some clothes so you look like a salesperson.

And she made me a salesperson.

You got your job.

And I got me a job out of that style.

That's not going to the department store and seeing a head to toe Ralph Lauren look and buying that head to toe Ralph Lauren look.

It's about taking particular pieces and putting them together and showing your point of view.

Thank you for doing what you did.

Thank you for the book and thank you for the documentary and thank you for having them at the same time, because it is just a huge effect when you read the book, which I did, and then look at all six episodes of the on YouTube of the documentary.

And if you don't if you don't get it from that impact, then shame on you.

And on that note, we've got to go.

Thank you, Marcellus, for being with us.

Thank you for the book and thank you for talking about black models.

It is just so insightful, so historical and so interesting.

And I know you've got more to come, so we're going to bring you back.

I'm Herman Hartman with Indigo Studio.

And thank you for watching.

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Funding for this program was provided by State of Illinois Representative LaShawn Ford Community Trust, the Field Foundation, Commonwealth Edison, Broadway, Chicago and Governor's State University, "Music Playing" N'digo Studio...