(INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC) (INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC) NARRATOR: TODAY ON SPECTRUM, WE WATCH A RENOWNED BALLET INSTRUCTOR AT WORK.

A NATIVE OF HONOLULU, MR.

FINIS JHUNG RETURNS FROM NEW YORK TO CONDUCT TWO MASTER CLASSES IN BALLET.

NEXT, CELEBRATED ACTOR AND FOLK SINGER THEODORE BIKEL IS INTERVIEWED BY UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I DRAMA PROFESSOR TERENCE KNAPP.

BUT FIRST, WE WITNESS A UNIQUE PERFORMANCE BY THE SOTO-SHU HAWAII MATSURI TAIKO GROUP FROM WAHIAWA.

ONCE A WEEK IN THE AFTERNOONS, STUDENTS TRAVEL TO THE WAHIAWA RYUSENJI SOTO MISSION.

HERE, THEY ATTEND ANOTHER TYPE OF SCHOOL WHERE TRADITIONS OF THEIR JAPANESE ANCESTORS ARE PERPETUATED.

THEY LEARN THE LANGUAGE.

(SPEAKING IN JAPANESE) AND THEY PLAY THE TAIKO.

(DRUMMING) NARRATOR: THE TAIKO IS A LARGE WOODEN DRUM USUALLY FOUND AT CEREMONIES AND FESTIVALS, PARTICULARLY THE BON DANCE.

ITS TRADITION ORIGINATES IN THE BUDDHIST TEMPLES OF JAPAN.

REV.

SHUGEN KOMAGATA: TAIKO IS USED AS AN INSTRUMENT TO COMMUNICATE AMONG THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN THE TEMPLE WITHOUT TALKING TO EACH OTHER, WE CAN BY LISTENING TO THE SOUND OF TAIKO AND HOW IT'S HIT, WE KNOW EXACTLY WHAT'S HAPPENING OR WHAT IS TO BE EXPECTED.

NARRATOR: TAIKO IS ALSO THE SOUND OF DHARMA, THE BUDDHIST TEACHINGS.

REV.

SHUGEN KOMAGATA: WHEN WE TEACH TAIKO TO OUR YOUNGSTERS, WE WANT THEM TO KNOW THAT THE SOUND OF TAIKO SHOULD CONVEY THEIR INNER FEELING TO OTHERS.

SO TAIKO TO THEM COULD BE AN INSTRUMENT THROUGH WHICH THEY CAN COMMUNICATE WITH OTHERS.

NARRATOR: FAYE KOMAGATA HAS ASSEMBLED STUDENTS AND AN ASSORTMENT OF DRUMS TO PERFORM FESTIVAL DRUMMING KNOWN AS MATSURI TAIKO.

FAYE KOMAGATA: I TELL PEOPLE THAT I'M NOT A TEACHER.

I LIKE TO PLAY.

BUT SINCE THERE'S NO ONE AROUND, I WAITED SEVERAL YEARS, AND NO ONE HAS COME AROUND AND OFFERED TO TEACH.

SO, I CAN JUST SHARE WHAT I KNOW.

IN THE BEGINNING (TAPPING OF STICKS) DURING THE INTRODUCTION, DON, DON, KA KA KA KA KA, BE CAREFUL AS YOU NOT SPEED UP.

OKAY.

THE WAY IN WHICH WE WRITE DOWN OUR MUSIC FOR DRUMMING IS NOT STANDARDIZED.

THE WAY I LEARNED IS WITH THE USE OF WORDS LIKE DON, DON, DON, AND THEN FOR HITTING THE RIM OF THE DRUM, WE WOULD USE THE WORD KARA OR KAKA.

IT'S A GOOD WAY TO LEARN GOOD COORDINATION, TO LISTEN TO ONE ANOTHER IN PLAYING.

WE DON'T USE MUSIC.

WE HAVE TO LISTEN TO THE OTHER PLAYERS.

IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO PLAY TOGETHER, WE HAVE TO PRACTICE A LOT OF SELF-DISCIPLINE.

NARRATOR: DISCIPLINE OF PERFORMANCE IS PART OF THE TRAINING.

ANOTHER RESULT IS CULTURAL.

FAYE KOMAGATA: I'VE HEARD CHILDREN SAY I'M JAPANESE, BUT I DON'T LIKE JAPANESE THINGS WHEN THEY'RE NOT EVEN AWARE OF THE FACT THAT THE FOOD THEY EAT OR SOME OF THE TRADITIONS THEY HAVE AT HOME IS JAPANESE THINGS, YOU KNOW HERITAGE.

SO, BY THOSE KIDS COMING TO PLAY TAIKO, I HOPE THAT THEY WILL BECOME MORE AWARE AS THEY GROW OLDER THAT THERE ARE MANY THINGS THAT THEY CAN LEARN AND CONTRIBUTE TO THIS AMERICAN SOCIETY, AS FAR AS THINGS JAPANESE AND BEING ABLE TO SHARE IT WITH EVERYONE.

(DRUMMING) (DRUMMING) (DRUMMING) (DRUMMING) (DRUMMING) (DRUMMING) (DRUMMING) (DRUMMING) (DRUMMING) (DRUMMING) FINIS JHUNG: SHOULDER IS OVER THE RIGHT FOOT, WHICH NEVER WIGGLES.

THAT RIGHT FOOT NEVER MOVES.

STOMACH IN, CHEST UP, SHOULDERS DOWN, PLIE.

GO BACK.

DON'T MOVE.

DON'T MOVE.

NARRATOR: FINIS JHUNG IS THE FOUNDER AND ARTISTIC DIRECTOR OF CHAMBER BALLET USA, A NEW YORK BASED DANCE COMPANY.

BORN IN HONOLULU AND A GRADUATE OF ROOSEVELT HIGH SCHOOL, MR.

JHUNG CONDUCTED TWO MASTER CLASSES FOR LOCAL DANCERS DURING HIS BALLET COMPANY'S ENGAGEMENT HERE.

FINIS JHUNG: OKAY, YES, WHEN WE GO FOR THESE BALANCES, NOW, YOU KNOW WHAT WE DID FACING THE BARRE, ALL RIGHT, YOU HAVE TO USE THIS AND YOU HAVE TO USE THIS UP THROUGH YOUR CHEST, OUT THROUGH YOUR EYES.

OKAY.

ALSO, YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE ON ONE FOOT OR THE OTHER.

I MEAN, WE CAN'T FLOAT IN THE AIR.

OKAY.

SO, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE TO LET THAT WEIGHT GET DOWN THROUGH THAT FOOT.

YOU WANT TO BE SURE THAT YOU'RE NOT LETTING THAT HAPPEN TO YOUR STANDING FOOT.

AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS, IT MEANS YOUR BODY'S TOO MUCH ON YOUR HEEL, OKAY, YOU HAVE TO MOVE YOURSELF OVER MORE.

I LOVE TO MOVE.

I LOVE TO TEACH PEOPLE TO MOVE.

I LOVE TO SEE PEOPLE LEARNING TO MOVE, AND I LOVE TO SEE PEOPLE MOVING ON THE STAGE.

AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT MOVES PEOPLE IN THE AUDIENCE, TOO.

NARRATOR: IN HIS PROFESSIONAL CAREER, FINUS JHUNG HAS DANCED BEFORE NUMEROUS AUDIENCES FOR THE SAN FRANCISCO BALLET, THE JOFFREY BALLET AND THE HARKNESS BALLET COMPANIES.

HE NOW TEACHES IN HIS OWN DANCE STUDIO IN NEW YORK CITY.

FINIS JHUNG: SIDE STRETCH BACK AND ALL THE WAY UP TO YOUR HEAD, RIGHT STRAIGHT UP.

FEEL THAT CENTER OF YOUR BODY.

CLOSE THE LEGS OUT.

WE'LL DO THAT FOUR TIMES.

ALL RIGHT, FACING THE BARRE.

I'M A BUDDHIST PERSONALLY AND I PRACTICE A SYSTEM OF BELIEF THAT SAYS THAT WE ARE ONE WITH THE UNIVERSE, AND THAT THERE IS A BASIC FLOW OF ENERGY THAT IS ALWAYS THERE, AND THAT WE ARE ALL PART OF THIS ENERGY.

ALL THE WAY TO THE SIDE, ALL THE WAY BACK.

LOOK AROUND.

STRETCH NOW, STAND STRAIGHT.

WHERE'S THAT CENTER?

STRAIGHT.

YEAH, WHERE'S THAT SQUARE CENTER?

HIPS, WHERE'S THE CHEST?

UP.

MORE, MORE, MORE.

STRETCH.

STRETCH.

EVERYBODY KEEPS GOING.

I USE THE CENTER OF THE BODY LITERALLY, AS THE CENTER FROM WHICH THIS ENERGY EMANATES.

AND THAT, IN FACT, THE IDEA OF BALANCE IS THAT ENERGY IS EQUAL AND OPPOSITE FROM THE CENTER OF THE BODY.

WHAT GOES THROUGH YOUR LEGS, GOES THROUGH YOUR ARMS, GOES UP THROUGH YOUR HEAD, OUT THROUGH YOUR EYES.

AND AS LONG AS YOU HAVE THIS CONSTANT FLOW OF ENERGY, YOU ARE BALANCED.

BECAUSE SO MUCH AGAIN, OF DANCING THE WESTERN CONCEPT IS JUST THROW YOURSELF AROUND AND YOU'RE FIGHTING THE ELEMENTS, YOU'RE FIGHTING THE AIR, AND YOU'RE FIGHTING YOU KNOW THAT LIFE IS A STRUGGLE IN THAT SENSE, WHICH I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS.

BUT IT'S LEARNING TO BE YOURSELF, TO USE WHAT YOU HAVE WITHIN YOU, AND TO LET THAT COME OUT.

NARRATOR: HIS STYLE OF DANCE SYNTHESIZES THE STRONG, CONTROLLED HIPS AND LEGS OF CLASSICAL BALLET WITH THE FLUID UPPER TORSO OF MODERN DANCE.

FINIS JHUNG: ATHLETES SWIM FASTER, JUMP HIGHER, RUN FASTER.

SO WHY HASN'T THAT HAPPENED TO DANCE?

WHY DOESN'T IT HAPPEN TO BALLET?

WHY MUST WE KEEP BALLET IN A TRADITIONAL MOLD, AND I THINK THAT WE HAVE TO KEEP BALLET ALIVE BY MAKING IT SOMETHING OF OUR TIME.

FINIS JHUNG: NOW.

KEEP BREATHING.

RELAX.

TALLER, TALLER.

YUP.

RIGHT, STRETCH, STRETCH.

OKAY, OKAY, YES.

ALSO, I THINK SINCE THE HISTORY OF BALLET, I DON'T THINK ANYONE HAS LOST THE LEG IN A PIROUETTE.

YOU KNOW, I'M SEEING SOME OF YOU DO IT LIKE YOU FEEL THIS LEG WILL NEVER COME WITH YOU IF YOU GO.

SO, YOU QUICKLY MOVE IT, YOU KNOW.

WHY DON'T YOU JUST LEAVE IT THERE?

SINCE IT IS ATTACHED TO THE HIP, IT WILL COME UP WHEN IT HAS TO.

OKAY?

FINIS JHUNG: I TEACH PEOPLE THAT THEY MUST USE THE FLOOR AND FEEL THEIR WEIGHT WITH THE FLOOR, AND THAT IS WHAT BARYSHNIKOV DOES.

AND EVERYONE WHO IS A GREAT DANCER DOES THIS.

THEY MAY NOT SAY THEY DO IT, BUT THEY DO IT.

THEY USE THE FLOOR.

AND THAT'S WHY THEY STAND THERE AND WHY THEY KEEP TURNING WHEN EVERYBODY ELSE IS FALLING DOWN.

OKAY, LOOK AT YOUR EYES.

WAIT.

YOUR EYES AREN'T SET YET.

COME ON, CONCENTRATE.

YOU'RE GONNA DO IT.

THERE YOU GO.

BYE, OKAY, YEAH, YOU HAVE TO, IT'S LIKE HIP.

YOU HAVE TO HYPNOTIZE.

I'M GONNA DO IT.

YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO LOOK.

YOU'VE GOTTA LOOK, YEAH, BUT THERE GOES THOSE ARMS.

NARRATOR: HE BEGAN DANCING AT THE AGE OF SIX, AND THROUGH THE EARLY YEARS, HE FOUND IT TO BE LONELY.

FINIS JHUNG: MOST OF HIS TIME.

I MEAN, I NEVER COULD TALK ABOUT DANCING WITH ANYBODY.

I MEAN, HOW COULD I?

FIRST OF ALL, I COULDN'T EVEN TELL ANYONE I WAS DANCING.

I HAD TO SAY I WAS GOING TO VISIT MY AUNT.

AND SECONDLY, I MEAN, EVEN MY OWN FAMILY, I COULDN'T TALK TO ABOUT DANCING, BECAUSE WHAT DID THEY KNOW ABOUT IT?

I MEAN, THERE WAS VERY LITTLE BALLET IN HAWAI'I AT THAT TIME AND BUT I JUST WANT, I LOVED TO DANCE.

I THINK THAT WAS THE MAIN THING, IS I JUST LOVED TO PUT ON MUSIC AT HOME, AND I WOULD DANCE.

I WOULD JUST DANCE AROUND THE HOUSE.

AND IT SEEMED PERFECTLY NATURAL TO ME TO DO THAT.

ONE STEP, TURN, STEP, TURN, STRETCH, EIGHT.

STEP, POINT AND EIGHT.

OKAY, GO RIGHT LEG, GO.

I REALLY DELIGHT IN SEEING SOMEONE JUST LEARNED TO DO A PIROUETTE.

I MEAN, I CAN JUST LOOK AT PEOPLE AND WORKING AT THE EXERCISES ON THE BARRE, AND THEY HAVE SUCH AN INTENSE LOOK IN THEIR FACE.

THEY'RE SO THOROUGHLY ABSORBED IN WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

AND I THINK THAT IS REALLY GRATIFYING.

HOW MANY MOMENTS DO WE REALLY HAVE IN OUR LIFE THAT ARE JUST SO PURE IN THE SENSE OF WE'RE JUST DOING SOMETHING THAT WE'RE NOT AWARE OF TIME WE'RE NOT AWARE OF ANY FEELINGS JUST OF WHAT WE'RE DOING.

(INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC) FINIS JHUNG: ALL RIGHT?

THAT'S IT.

THAT'S IT.

(INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC) (INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC) FINIS JHUNG: OKAY, THE MEN JUST DO PIROUETTE DOUBLE TORE.

OKAY, SO YOU CAN RELAX, ALRIGHT?

(INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC) [APPLAUSE] NARRATOR: UNIVERSITY OF HAWAI'I DRAMA PROFESSOR TERENCE KNAPP JOINED SPECTRUM IN A RARE CONVERSATION WITH FELLOW ACTOR, THEODORE BIKEL.

MR.

BIKEL WAS IN HONOLULU TO PERFORM AT A KAHALA HILTON BENEFIT DINNER FOR THE AMERICAN FRIENDS OF THE HEBREW UNIVERSITY AT JERUSALEM.

THIS OUTSPOKEN ACTOR OF INTERNATIONAL REPUTATION OFFERS HIS VIEWS ON ART, CULTURE, HISTORY AND THE UNITED STATES.

TERRENCE KNAPP: AND IN A CURIOUS SORT OF WAY, MR.

BIKEL, YOU ARE A VERY INTERNATIONALLY MINDED MAN, AREN'T YOU?

THEODORE BIKEL: I SUPPOSE SO.

IT BY DINT OF THE FACT I GUESS THAT I I SPEAK QUITE A FEW LANGUAGES, BUT ALSO BECAUSE I AM, PERHAPS IN THE TRUEST SENSE, AN INTERNATIONALIST.

I FIND THAT THE INTERACTION BETWEEN HUMAN BEINGS, YOU START BEING CURIOUS ABOUT OTHER HUMAN BEINGS.

YOU START LEARNING THEIR LANGUAGE OR LEARNING THEIR SONG.

AND YOU, IN A SENSE, GIVE THEM THE PAY THEM THE RESPECT BY FINDING OUT ABOUT THEM, TRYING TO EMULATE WHAT THEY DO.

ONCE YOU DO THAT, AND YOU ALLOW THEM TO COME INTO YOUR BACKYARD OR INTO YOUR PARLOR AND LEARN YOURS, YOU STOP SHOUTING AT EACH OTHER OR SHOOTING AT EACH OTHER.

TERRENCE KNAPP: WAS THIS PROMPTED IN YOU BY EXAMPLE AND UPBRINGING?

WAS IT FAMILY?

INSPIRATION, ENTHUSIASM.

WHAT WAS IT THE EXAMPLE OF YOUR MOTHER AND FATHER?

HOW MUCH OF THIS IS AN INHERITED DELIGHT IN, YOU KNOW, THINGS OTHER THAN THE PURELY LOCAL AND PAROCHIAL?

THEODORE BIKEL: WELL, IT WAS.

WE HAD A SORT OF A POLYGLOT HOUSEHOLD TO BEGIN WITH, AND WITH ONE STIPULATION THAT I WASN'T ALLOWED TO MIX UP LANGUAGES.

IF I STARTED THE SENTENCE IN ONE LANGUAGE, I HAD TO FINISH IT IN THAT LANGUAGE.

TERRENCE KNAPP: BECAUSE BOTH YOUR MOTHER AND YOUR FATHER AND MY GRANDMOTHER TOO WOULD GO FROM ONE LANGUAGE TO ANOTHER?

THEODORE BIKEL: YES, BUT MY FATHER ESPECIALLY, VERY CAREFULLY KEPT THEM APART.

TERRENCE KNAPP: AND DID THEY ALSO LEAD YOU INTO THE EXCITEMENT OF SAY, DRAMA THROUGH LITERATURE?

THEODORE BIKEL: YES.

MY FATHER WOULD GET US TOGETHER IN THE LIVING ROOM EVERY TUESDAY AND READ A PLAY.

YES.

TERRENCE KNAPP: THIS IS A PARTICULAR DELIGHT FOR ME, BECAUSE I FIRST SAW YOU ENTERTAIN AT THE ROYAL ACADEMY OF DRAMATIC ART GALA BALL WHILE I WAS STILL A GRADUATE STUDENT AT THE ACADEMY.

AND I THINK YOU'D BEEN BROUGHT BACK AS A SPECIAL ENTERTAINER, BECAUSE ALREADY YOU WERE STARTING TO MAKE YOUR NAME, AND AT THE SAME TIME, YOU WERE STARTING IN PETER USTINOV'S GREAT SOCIAL AND POLITICAL COMEDY, THE LOVE OF FOUR COLONELS, WITH YOU AS THE RUSSIAN COMMISSAR, AN ABSOLUTELY LOVELY PERFORMANCE, SPARKLING WITH SATIRE AND PARODY.

AND THEN YOUR LIFE CHANGED IN THE SENSE THAT YOU LEFT ENGLAND AND YOU CAME TO THE UNITED STATES AND BEGAN A WHOLE NEW CAREER.

THEODORE BIKEL: WELL, I WAS BROUGHT TO NEW YORK TO DO A PLAY, AND IT WAS LITERALLY IT WAS GOING TO BE A GUEST CHART.

I WAS GOING TO COME AND DO THE PLAY AND THEN GO BACK.

BUT SOMETHING FUNNY HAPPENED ON MY WAY TO THE FORUM.

I FELL IN LOVE WITH NEW YORK, AND I FELL IN LOVE WITH THE NOTION THAT IT'S A FULL BARREL OF STUFF, AND THAT YOU COULD REACH INTO IT WITH BOTH HANDS AND COME UP WITH SOMETHING, NOT EVERYTHING SALUTARY, BUT ENOUGH TO KEEP YOU HAPPY FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE.

TERRENCE KNAPP: DID YOU FIND YOURSELF AT THAT TIME ON THE EDGE OF WHAT I MIGHT CALL A FOLK SONG EXPLOSION?

THEODORE BIKEL: FOLK WAS A VERY NARROW FIELD WHEN I ARRIVED IN THIS COUNTRY.

THERE WERE ONLY A FEW PEOPLE WHO DID IT, AND SOME OF THEM WEREN'T EVEN DOING IT BECAUSE THEY WERE BLACKLISTED AND IT THEN CAME ABOUT THAT I STARTED TO GIVE CONCERTS, AND IT WAS BASICALLY PEOPLE LIKE PETE SEEGER AND MYSELF WHO LATER BECAME WITH GEORGE WEIN, THE THREE OF US, THE FOUNDERS OF THE NEWPORT FOLK FESTIVAL.

TERRENCE KNAPP: WELL, THAT'S QUITE EXTRAORDINARY, ISN'T IT?

I MEAN, THERE YOU WERE INTENDING TO BE A FULLY FLESHED CLASSICAL STAGE ACTOR, AND YOU FIND YOURSELF BECOMING A COMMUNICATOR WITH A HANDHELD GUITAR.

THEODORE BIKEL: WELL, I ALWAYS PLAYED I PLAYED IN ENGLAND TOO, BUT IN ENGLAND I DID IT STRICTLY AS AN ADVOCATION.

BUT YOU SEE AMERICA AS THE KIND OF COUNTRY THAT WON'T TOLERATE YOU DOING ANYTHING WELL WITHOUT FORCING YOU TO ACCEPT MONEY FOR IT.

SO, I SUDDENLY FOUND A BRAND NEW ADDITIONAL CAREER IN MY HANDS BECAUSE I WAS DOING IT WELL.

TERRENCE KNAPP: IT SEEMS TO ME THAT YOU ARE A MAN OF OVERT AND WELL-DEFINED HUMANITARIAN CONCERNS AND INTENTION IN THE LIGHT OF WHAT I'VE HEARD ABOUT YOU IN THE PAST HOUR OR SO.

THEODORE BIKEL: HISTORY, HISTORY WILL TELL.

TERRENCE KNAPP: YES, OF COURSE, THE PROOF OF THE PUDDING WILL BE IN THE EVENTUAL EATING, RIGHT?

BUT YOU HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN, FOR EXAMPLE, PRESIDENT CARTER'S CONCERNS ABOUT THE ARTS.

IS THAT CORRECT?

THEODORE BIKEL: YES, I WAS CARTER'S FIRST ARTS APPOINTMENT, AS A MATTER OF FACT, TO THE NATIONAL COUNCIL ON THE ARTS.

AND THERE TOO, YOU SEE, NORMALLY, YOU COME FROM A DISCIPLINE PEOPLE SERVE ON THE NATIONAL COUNCIL ON THE ARTS, WRITERS, SCULPTORS, ARCHITECTS, PRODUCERS, DIRECTORS.

YOU COME FROM A NARROW DISCIPLINE, BUT YOU FIND THAT YOU HAVE TO, ALMOST OVERNIGHT, BECOME AN INSTANT SAGE.

AND BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO PRONOUNCE YOURSELF WITH AUTHORITY AND WITH MORE THAN A MODICUM OF KNOWLEDGE ABOUT A VARIETY OF SUBJECTS IN THE ARTS WITH WHICH YOU ARE LESS WERE LESS THAN FAMILIAR.

I CAME TO THE COUNCIL KNOWING A LOT ABOUT THEATER AND QUITE A BIT ABOUT FILM AND TELEVISION, KNOWING QUITE A LOT ABOUT FOLKLORE AND FOLK MUSIC, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT MUSEUMS, ABOUT VISUAL ARTS OTHER THAN INTELLIGENT HUMAN BEINGS, OF COURSE, TO GALLERIES ABOUT LITERATURE AND POETRY, AGAIN, IN TERMS OF VALUE JUDGMENTS, AND THEN YOU'RE SUDDENLY CALLED UPON TO DETERMINE WHO SHALL LIVE AND WHO SHALL DIE, WHO WILL GET $2,000 TO GO AND WRITE A VOLUME OF POETRY BASED ON PAST ON HIS OR HER PAST WORK.

SO, YOU HAVE TO REALLY LEARN A LOT SURE YOU CAN RELY ON YOUR COLLEAGUES.

I MEAN, I SAT ON THE COUNCIL WITH I. M. PEI, AND WHEN SOMETHING IN ARCHITECTURE CAME ABOUT, I SAID, HEY, COME TELL ME ABOUT THIS, AS HE WOULD COME TO ME AND ASK ME ABOUT SOMETHING TO DO WITH THEATER.

BUT BY AND LARGE, IT'S AN EXTRAORDINARY LEARNING EXPERIENCE.

IT WAS FOR ME.

TERRENCE KNAPP: AND IT WAS NO EMPTY GESTURE THAT'S, OH NO, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE IN FACT, YOU BECAME GREATLY INVOLVED IN THE POLITICAL AND ECONOMIC AND SOCIOLOGICAL ASPECTS OF PERFORMING AND OF ART.

THEODORE BIKEL: AND ALSO, I MEAN, I AM TO THIS DAY MORE AND MORE CONVINCED THAT WE, THE ARTIST WHO MAKE THESE DECISIONS, HAVE AN IMPORTANT ROLE TO FULFILL, BECAUSE IF WE DIDN'T MAKE THOSE DECISIONS, IT WOULD BE LEFT TO THE POLITICIANS TO MAKE THEM, AND THAT WOULD BE DEATH.

TERRENCE KNAPP: IN YOUR OPINION, IS THIS THE SORT OF THING THAT HAPPENS ONLY IN THE UNITED STATES?

I MEAN, IN AMERICA, DO YOU AGREE TO THIS DEGREE?

THEODORE BIKEL: I WOULD SAY SO.

YES.

ALSO, WE HAVE THIS EXTRAORDINARY DEMOGRAPHIC SPREAD, GEOGRAPHICAL SPREAD, THAT AND DEMOGRAPHIC WHICH IS UNHEARD OF.

I MEAN, WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO LOOK AT HAWAI'I WITH THE SAME KIND OF CARE AND NURTURING AS WE DO NEW YORK CITY OR WASHINGTON OR CHICAGO.

TERRENCE KNAPP: MR.

BIKEL, FROM WHERE YOU ARE SITTING NOW, WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST TO US SHOULD BE OUR PRIORITIES, OUR CONCERNS HERE IN HAWAI'I, IN HONOLULU, TO BRING ABOUT THE FLOWERING OF OUR ASPIRATIONS AND HOPES IN THE ARTS.

WELL, WHAT SHOULD WE DO?

WHAT?

HOW DO WE MAKE THINGS BETTER?

THEODORE BIKEL: TO BEGIN WITH, IT'S A QUESTION OF SELF-EVALUATION, OF SELF-IMAGE AND SELF-ESTEEM.

BEING REMOTE MUST NEVER SPELL BEING PROVINCIAL.

AND A LOT OF PEOPLE, INCLUDING HAWAIIANS, THINK OF THEMSELVES AS PROVINCIAL BECAUSE THEY ARE REMOTE, AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SO, AND IT SHOULD NOT BE SO.

AND IF THE HAWAIIANS WOULD STOP THINKING OF THEMSELVES THAT WAY, THE REST OF THE COUNTRY WOULD FOLLOW SUIT, AND ESPECIALLY THOSE IN A POSITION OF POWER AND OF DECISION MAKING WOULD FOLLOW SUIT.

HAWAI'I IS A SPECIAL CASE, ADMITTEDLY.

PERHAPS ALASKA IS IN A SIMILAR SITUATION THAT YOU HAVE TO TRAVERSE AN INCREDIBLE DISTANCE FROM THE NEAREST POINT ON THE MAINLAND IN ORDER TO GET TO IT.

BUT THERE NOW IS ALMOST INSTANT COMMUNICATION.

THERE ARE THE COMPUTERS, AND THERE ARE THE SATELLITES, AND THERE IS THE THE INSTANT TELEVISION.

I REMEMBER I WAS WORKING HERE IN HAWAI'I WHEN, WHEN YESTERDAY'S NEWS WOULD BE PLAYED ON TELEVISION TOMORROW.

THAT NO LONGER IS TRUE, AND SO HAWAI'I IS PART OF THE REST OF THE COUNTRY HAS BECOME SO.

WHAT SHOULD IT DO IN ORDER TO STIMULATE ITS ARTS?

IS TO, FIRST OF ALL, LOOK, LOOK TO ITS OWN NATURAL RESOURCES.

I KNOW THIS IS AN ISLAND, AND I KNOW IT HAS TO IMPORT MOST OF THE THINGS THAT IT CONSUMES, BUT IT HAS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE TRUE OF THE ARTS EITHER, NOR DOES IT HAVE TO BE TRUE OF AGRICULTURE.

YOU CAN GROW YOUR OWN AS WELL, IN MOST INSTANCES.

WELL, AGRICULTURE AND CULTURE ARE NOT THAT MUCH DIFFERENT, ONE FROM THE OTHER.

YOU CAN GROW YOUR OWN.

TERRENCE KNAPP: DO YOU THINK IN THIS RAPIDLY SHRINKING WORLD OF OURS THAT THERE IS, IN FACT, A PLACE FOR AN INDIVIDUAL SUCH AS THE POLYNESIAN IN TERMS OF HIS EXPRESSION, HIS ARTISTIC FULFILLMENT?

BUT HAS EVERYTHING GOT TO BE HOMOGENIZED AND BECOME.

THEODORE BIKEL: AH, YOU'RE NOW.

YOU'RE NOW TOUCHING MY SOURCE.

BUT I'VE BEEN ON THE WAR PATH AGAINST THE PHRASE MELTING POT FOR A LONG TIME.

THE MELTING POT IS A PERNICIOUS NOTION.

I THINK IT WAS SPIRO AGNEW WHO PROMOTED IT.

ACTUALLY, REMEMBER HIM.

I'VE HEARD A GOOD I REMEMBER WHERE HE WENT, ULTIMATELY WELL DESERVED.

NOW, THE MELTING POT MAKES OF EVERYBODY A SORT OF A GRAY, INDISTINCT.

NO SHAPE, NO NO, NOTHING MASS, UNDEFINED.

IF AMERICA IS MEANT TO BE ANYTHING AT ALL, IT'S MEANT TO BE A KALEIDOSCOPE WHERE EACH PARTICLE IS CLEARLY DELINEATED, ALL CONTRIBUTING TO THE BEAUTY OF THE WHOLE.

TERRENCE KNAPP: DO YOU THINK THERE'S ANY PLACE IN THIS WICKED WORLD OF OURS FOR WHAT IS KNOWN AS THE AMATEUR?

I MEAN, I'M THINKING IN THE SENSE OF SCHUBERT PLAYING AND SINGING WITH HIS FRIENDS IN VIENNA ON A SUMMER'S EVENING.

DO YOU ACCEPT THE DISTINCTION OF SOME GOOD, PROFITABLE FLOWERING FROM THAT?

THEODORE BIKEL: IF AMATEURISM IS TAKEN IN ITS LITERAL SENSE, AND THAT IS FROM THE LATIN SOMEBODY WHO DOES SOMETHING BECAUSE HE OR SHE LOVES IT, THAT I THINK, OF COURSE, IS THE BEST OF ALL WORLDS.

BUT YOU CAN BE AN AMATEUR IN THAT SENSE AND BE A PROFESSIONAL AND BE A PROFESSIONAL.

IN THE OTHER SENSE, I WOULD SAY, NO, IT'S NOT A GOOD THING.

I DO NOT LIKE DILETTANTISM, AND I WOULDN'T LIKE AN AMATEUR SURGEON TO MESS AROUND WITH MY GALLBLADDER IF I HAD THAT KIND OF PROBLEM ANY MORE THAN I WOULD WANT AN AMATEUR ARTIST TO MESS AROUND WITH MY SOUL.

TERRENCE KNAPP: AND THEN, OF COURSE, ON THE OTHER HAND, THERE'S THE, WHAT I WOULD CALL THE READER'S DIGEST APPROACH, WHERE, IF YOU HAVE A BLUEPRINT, ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE, BUT IN FACT, NOTHING CREATIVE AND PERSONAL OR SPIRITUAL CAN BE BORN FROM IT.

EVERYBODY THINKING, MAYBE THAT IS POSSIBLE THROUGH THE DISSEMINATION OF INFORMATION, TELEVISION AND SURE, SO ON.

THEODORE BIKEL: SURE, PEOPLE THINK IT'S POSSIBLE, BUT IT'S JUST PLAINLY, IT'S NOT.

TERRENCE KNAPP: WE'RE REALLY TALKING ABOUT A DELICATE BALANCE AND A FINE EDGE OF AWARENESS HERE AND AND FOLLOWING ONE'S NOSE IN TERMS OF WHAT THE ARTISTIC ATTEMPT MAY PRODUCE, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE.

THEODORE BIKEL: YOU HAVE TO FALL ALSO FOLLOW SOMEBODY OF KNOWLEDGE.

IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT A PHOENIX LIKE THING THAT YOU SAID SPRUNG UP OUT OF THE DESERT AND SAYS, YOU SAY, HERE I AM, NO PARENTAGE, NO YESTERDAY, NO HISTORY.

YOU CAN'T.

NOBODY WHO CANNOT KNOW OR ACKNOWLEDGE YESTERDAY IS ENTITLED TO A TOMORROW.

AND I NEVER FORGET THE STORY OF THE SHAKESPEAREAN ACTOR WHO'S BEING ACCOSTED BY A LADY OF LADY OF THE EVENING, WHO INQUIRES WHETHER HE WOULD BE INTERESTED IN COMING HOME WITH HER.

AND HE LOOKED AT HER, AND THEN HE NODDED, AND HE SAID, LOOK AT YOU, AND LOOK AT ME.

I AN ACTOR.

YOU A PROSTITUTE.

THE TWO NOBLEST AND OLDEST PROFESSIONS IN THE WORLD, BOTH SPOILED BY AMATEURS.

TERRENCE KNAPP: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MR.

BIKEL, FOR BEING WITH US TODAY ON SPECTRUM HAWAII.

IT'S BEEN A GREAT JOY.

THANK YOU.

(INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC) (INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC) (INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC) (INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC)