>> COMING UP NEXT, SHOULD SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY PAY MORE TO THE CITY?

ALSO TONIGHT, ANOTHER ROUND OF PINK SLIPS FOR MILITARY LEADERS.

AND IS IT TIME FOR THE CENSUS BUREAU TO STOP ASKING ABOUT RACE?

STAY TUNED FOR THE PROFESSORS OF "IVORY TOWER" >> THIS PROGRAM IS BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE MEMBERS OF WCNY.

THANK YOU.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> GOOD EVENING AND, WELCOME TO "IVORY TOWER" THANKS FOR BEING HERE.

I'M NINA MOORE OF COLGATE UNIVERSITY.

THE PROFESSORS AROUND THE TABLE TONIGHT ARE TARA ROSS OF ONONDAGA COMMUNITY COLLEGE BEN BAUGHMAN OF GANNON.

UNIVERSITY, AND TY SEIDULE OF HAMILTON COLLEGE THE CITY OF SYRACUSE WANTS SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY TO PAY MORE IN TAXES.

AS OF NOW S.U.

PAYS JUST OVER $2 MILLION, AS PART OF A SERVICES AGREEMENT, A CITY AUDIT REPORT SAYS, THAT IS NOT ENOUGH; THAT S.U.

IS THE CITY'S LARGEST LANDOWNER AND IF IT WEREN'T FOR ITS TAX-EXEMPT STATUS, S.U.

WOULD BE PAYING $36 MILLION TO THE CITY.

S.U.

OFFICIALS ARE PUSHING BACK, THEY SAY THE REPORT OVERLOOKS THE $1.8 BILLION THE SCHOOL BRINGS TO THE LOCAL ECONOMY.

SHOULD SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY PAY THE CITY MORE?

EITHER IN TAXES OR OTHER MEANS.

>> THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION.

I THINK REEVALUATING AND TAKING A LOOK AT IT IS REASONABLE.

BUT I THINK UNDERSTATING WHAT THEY'RE BRINGING IN EMPLOYMENT AND EDUCATION AND EXISTING SERVICES THAT THEY ALSO CONTRIBUTE, ALONG WITH THE 1.8 BILLION, THAT'S A REAL CONTRIBUTION AND SHOULD NOT BE OVERLOOKED.

>> BUT, BY THE WAY, IT'S GREAT TO HAVE YOU BACK, TY, ALWAYS GREAT TO HAVE YOU AT THE TABLE.

>> IT'S GREAT TO BE HERE.

>> THE FACT IS THAT SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY OWNS ROUGHLY HALF OF THE PROPERTIES IN THE CITY, WHICH MEANS THE CITY CAN'T TAX MOST OF THOSE.

SO SHOULD IT BE DOING MORE, EVEN IF IT'S CONTRIBUTING?

>> WELL, I THINK THE CITY AND THE SYRACUSE ARE IN A TOUGH SPOT BECAUSE THEY'RE BOTH STARING AT BUDGET DEFICITS, THEY'RE BOTH LOOKING FOR AS MUCH MONEY AS THEY CAN.

BUT THE WAY THAT THEY ARE DOING IT, WHICH IS GOING TO COURT, IS A WASTE OF RESOURCES AND UNLIKELY TO HELP.

NEW YORK STATE IS PRETTY CLEAR THAT THEY HAVE TAX EXEMPT STATUS AND DON'T HAVE TO PAY THAT.

THAT'S MOSTLY WHAT THE LAW IS.

BUT WHAT THIS HAS DONE FOR ME ANYWAY, IS TO MAKE ME LOOK AT MY OWN COLLEGE OF HAMILTON COLLEGE, WHAT ARE WE DOING.

SO I WENT AND LOOKED AT IT.

THEY DO A DIRECT MONEY ABOUT $650,000 A YEAR.

AND UNUSUALLY THEY CREATE AN ENDOWED FUND WHICH NOW SPINS OFF $130,000 A YEAR THAT THE TOWN COMES TOGETHER AND THE VILLAGE, WITH HAMILTON CLJ TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO USE.

SO IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT THAT THE TOWN AND GOWN COME TOGETHER TO COME TO A SOLUTION WITH THIS.

WE CAN'T LIVE WITHOUT EACH OTHER.

THE CITY OF SYRACUSE NEEDS THE UNIVERSITY.

THE UNIVERSITY NEEDS THE CITY.

AND THEY BOTH NEED TO THRIVE.

BUT GOING TO COURT?

THAT IS A RECIPE FOR DISASTER.

>> YEAH, TARA, COLGATE DOES A CONSIDERABLE AMOUNT IN THE TOWN OF HAMILTON, NEW YORK.

BUILDING THE DOWNTOWN AREA, CONTRIBUTING IN OTHER WAYS, KEEPING UP THE COAL DATE INN.

TO TY'S POINT, IS THERE A LEVEL OF PETTINESS HERE IN THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT $62,000 FOR THE CENTER.

THAT WAS FOUGHT IN COURT FOR SEVERAL YEARS.

$62,000.

>> I THINK THERE IS A LEVEL OF PETTINESS.

I ALSO THINK THERE IS A LEVEL ON BOTH PARTS OF PANIC.

AS F TY MENTIONED, THEY'RE BOTH FACING BUDGET DEFICITS.

S.U.

FINDS ITSELF IN A POSITION IT HASN'T BEEN IN MAYBE EVER, IN TERMS OF NOT MEETING THE ENROLLMENT THAT IT NEEDS TO SORT OF, YOU KNOW, STAY BALANCED.

AND SO I THINK PART OF THIS IS A PANIC.

AND TY IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT.

THEY SHOULD NOT BE GOING TO COURT.

I KNOW THERE HAVE BEEN MEETINGS.

AND I THINK BOTH CAN GIVE A LITTLE BIT.

BUT I ALSO THINK SOMETHING ELSE NEEDS TO HAPPEN, TOO.

AND THIS IS WHERE S.U.

SHOULD BE A-- NOT S.U., THE CITY SHOULD BE MORE PROACTIVE.

I THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE A VISITING OF THE WHOLE TAX EXEMPT STATUS AND THAT WOULD COME FROM THE STATE LEVEL FROM THE LEGISLATURE.

WHEN TEXT TAXES EXEMPT STATUS WAS ORIGINATED.

SCHOOLS WERE NOT CONSIDERED BUSINESSES IN THE WAY THAT THEY ARE NOW.

SCHOOLS WERE NOT BUYING UP PROPERTY, MAKING A PROFIT FROM IT IN THE SAME WAY.

AND WHETHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT, THAT IS THE NEW WORLD WE LIVE IN, SO THIS REALLY IS ALSO A LEGISLATIVE ISSUE AND THAT'S, I THINK, A BETTER PLACE FOR THE CITY.

YES, KEEP NEGOTIATING BUT THAT'S A BETTER PLACE FOR THE CITY TO PUT ITS EFFORTS AS WELL.

>> YEAH, BECAUSE IT SEEMS LIKE PART OF THE QUESTION IS HOW MUCH OF THIS EXPANSION IS ABOUT THE EDUCATIONAL MISSION OF THE INSTITUTION AND IN THE CASE OF SCHEIN CENTER, HAVING A DUNKIN' DONUTS IS HOPE TO THE WHOLE PUBLIC.

SO BEN, HOW DO WE PUT PARAMETER AS ROUND EDUCATIONAL MISSION?

IS SELLING DOUGHNUTS OUT OF DUNKIN' DONUTS PART OF THAT IF IT'S ON THE COLLEGE CAMPUS?

>> I WOULD SAY YES.

I THINK YOU ARE PAYING TAXES WHEN YOU ARE EATING AT DUNKIN' DONUTS.

YOU ARE BRINGING REVENUE TO THE AREA WHEN YOU COME TO WATCH A FOOTBALL GAME.

WHEN YOU ATTEND SPORTING EVENTS.

WHEN PARENTS COME FROM GRADUATION, WHEN FRIENDS VISIT.

THAT'S ALL REVENUE THAT IS BEING BROUGHT INTO THE CITY.

SO LIKE WHAT TY SAID, IT IS A BOND THAT THEY DO NEED EACH OTHER; THAT IT CANNOT BE OVERSTATED HOW MUCH THE CITY NEEDS THE UNIVERSITY AND THE UNIVERSITY NEEDS THE CITY.

SO TO SAY YOU ALL OF A SUDDEN OWE THIS AMOUNT, THERE IS NO WAY THAT YOU COULD DO THAT AND SUSTAIN AN EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM LIKE S.U.

>> YEAH, THE OTHER THING THE CITY NEEDS, TY, IS MORE MONEY.

BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT A 30% POVERTY RATE GENERALLY.

A 50% CHILD POVERTY RATE.

SO IS IT GOING ABOUT IT THE RIGHT WAY BY EXPECTING-- OR EXEMPT INSTITUTIONS TO PAY?

SHOULD THEY LOOK ELSEWHERE.

>> THEY HAVE TO LOOK EVERYWHERE.

THAT'S THE PART CITIES AND STATES-- YOU CAN'T RUN A BUDGET DEFICIT LIKE CITY GOVERNMENT DOES.

EVERY MUNICIPALITY IS LOOKING FOR MORE MONEY.

HOW ARE THEY GOING TO GET IT TO PROVIDE THE SERVICES WE NEED?

CERTAINLY FIRE, POLICE, AND THOSE THINGS, THAT THE CITY IS PROVIDING, THAT'S ONE OF THESE THINGS SAT THE UNIVERSITY DOES HAVE TO PROVIDE.

MORE FOR THOSE.

IT'S SUCH A HOLISTIC THING FOR THE CITY, TOO.

AND ALL EARLIER, TARA.

SO, DID THE CITY APPROACH THIS THE RIGHT WAY?

BECAUSE THE CITY AUDITOR CAME OUT AND MADE A BIG SPLASH ABOUT THIS REPORT.

S.U.

SAID WE WERE NOT CONSULTED.

IS THERE A BETTER WAY TO APPROACH THIS?

HOW DO WE GET PAST THE IMPASSE?

>> WELL, AS I MENTIONED, THEY HAVE BEEN HAVING MEETINGS.

AND AND I'M ASSUMING THAT PART OF THIS SORT OF BIG SPLASH, WAS A NEGOTIATING TACTIC, YOU KNOW.

WE HAVE BEEN TALKING.

WE NEED TO MOVE, MAYBE MOVE THIS PROCESS FORWARD A LITTLE BIT MORE.

SO I'LL MAKE THIS BIG SPLASH, MAYBE GET THE PUBLIC BEHIND THIS.

DO I NECESSARILY THINK THIS WAS THE RIGHT TACTIC?

PROBABLY NOT.

OR AT LEAST, YOU KNOW,DO THE OLD FASHIONED, OKAY, WE ARE HAVING THE PRESS CONFERENCE AT 10, 8:00 IN THE MORNING, HERE YOU GO.

AT LEAST DO THAT.

BUT I DO THINK THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME SORT OF RESOLUTION FOR THIS BECAUSE I DON'T THINK IT BEFITS ANYBODY BUT THE LAWYERS.

IT ALSO HIT ME AS WE HAVE BEEN TALKING, MAYBE BEGIN TO THINK A LITTLING MORE CREATIVELY.

OKAY, YOU HAVE-- AND THIS IS JUST OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD.

YOU HAVE S.U.

S.U.

HAS THESE PROPERTIES.

WE HAVE A HOUSING PROBLEM IN THE CITY.

IS THERE SOME WAY THOSE TWO CAN WORK TOGETHER SO, OKAY,... >> ON THE HOUSING.

YEAH, AND ON THAT VERY POINT, AND WE ARE TALKING ABOUT S.U., BUT LET'S BRING IN LeMOYNE COLLEGE HERE AS WELL WHICH IS NOW STARTING LITIGATION AGAINST THE CITY, THE SHORT OF IT IS LeMOYNE PURCHASED I THINK 20 SINGLE-FAMILY HOMES TO BE USED EXCLUSIVELY FOR HOUSING, BUT IT DID IT THROUGH A SUBSIDIARY THAT'S WHOLLY OWNED BY LeMOYNE.

SYRACUSE CITY WANTS TO TAX LeMOYNE.

YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT THAT.

>> I KNOW THAT AT HAMILTON, WE FIND THAT PART OF OUR CHARTER NOW IS IF WE BUY NEW PROPERTY, AND IT HAS PREVIOUSLY BEEN PAYING TAXES WORN, WE ARE GOING TO CONTINUE TO PAY THE TAXES.

I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.

IF YOU ARE BUYING NEW PROPERTY, AND IT WAS PAYING TAXES, I THINK THE COLLEGES SHOULD THINK ABOUT CONTINUING TO DO THAT.

THAT'S JUST ONE WAY OF THINKING ABOUT IT.

>> CERTAINLY IF THEY'RE ABLE TO.

SO LIKE YOU SAID, TY, IT'S A VERY COMPLEX SITUATION THAT BRINGS IN ALL SORTS OF OTHER FACTORS.

WE ARE GOING TO MOVE ON NOW.

THE SECRETARY OF DEFENSE RECENTLY ANNOUNCED PLANS TO CUT 10% PERCENT OF GENERALS AND ADMIRALS IN THE MILITARY.

IT'S PART OF HIS BROADER MISSION TO RID THE MILITARY OF, SO-CALLED BEARDOS, WEIRDOS, AND WIMPS.

THIS YEAR'S CUTS FOLLOW THE 10% REDUCTION OF A YEAR AGO.

SOME REPUBLICANS BELIEVE THE PLAN INCREASES EFFICIENCIES AND STAMPS OUT "WOKENESS", OTHERS REPUBLICANS ARE NOT SO SURE AND QUESTION THE TIMING.

WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THIS, TY?

>> I HAVE THOUGHTS.

LFT.

[LAUGHTER] >> FIRST I WILL SAY THAT SECRETARY HEGSETH IS THE WORST SECRETARY DEFENSE OF WAR SINCE JOHN FLOYD IN 1860.

THAT'S NUMBER ONE.

FLOYD IS THE GUY THAT GAVE ARMS TO CONFEDERATES AND THEN EVENTUALLY BECAME A CONFEDERATE GENERAL.

HE WAS LITERALLY A TRAITOR FOR SLAVERY.

HE IS WORKING TOWARD THAT.

THE SECOND POINT IS THAT I WORRY THIS IS GOING TO BE A POLITICIZED GENERAL OFFICER COURT.

THE MILITARY IS AN APOLITICAL ORGANIZATION AND FAMOUSLY WILL DO WHATEVER THE CIVILIAN LEADERSHIP TELLS IT TO DO WHICH IS EXACTLY THE RIGHT THING.

BUNKED THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION THERE WERE OTHER PRIORITIES, THEY EXECUTED THOSE PRIORITIES.

NOW WE HAVE A SECRETARY WHO IS ACTUALLY PUNISHING GENERALS FOR DOING WHAT THE LAST ADMINISTRATION TOLD THEM TO DO.

THAT IS CREATING A POLITICIZED GENERAL OFFICER CORPS WHICH I THINK IS TERRIBLE.

THE OTHER THING THAT IS DRIVING ME CRAZY WITH THIS GUY IS THAT HE IS BASICALLY SAYING THAT THE MILITARY IS BETTER THAN THE PEOPLE THAT THEY SERVE.

THAT THE MILITARY, THE 1 PERSE THAT SERVES IS BETTER.

AND THIS IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE.

THE REASON AMERICA HAS A GREAT MILITARY IS BECAUSE THE MILITARY REFLECTS THE GREAT COUNTRY.

AMERICA MAKES THE MILITARY GREAT.

A SINK FATTIC CINCO PATHIC PEACOCK IS CREATING A POLITICIZED OFFICERS CORPS WHICH IS GOING TO HAVE LONG TERM TERRIBLE EFFECTS.

>> OTHER THAN THAT... >> I DARE TRY TO ASK THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS, TY, ISN'T LOYALTY IMPORTANT?

I MEAN IF HAVE YOU GENERALS AND ADMIRALS WHO ARE NOT ON BOARD WITH WHAT HE IS TRYING TO DO IF THEY WERE FOLLOWING THE PREVIOUS ADMINISTRATION, WHY NOT FOLLOW HERE AND IF NOT, WHY NOT GET RID OF THEM.

>> THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THAT HAS HAPPENED.

WHEN HE BRINGS THEM TOGETHER AND TELLS YOU I WANT YOU TO GO THAT WAY, THEY DO BECAUSE THAT'S THEIR JOB.

TO DO WHAT CIVILIAN POLITICAL LEADERS TELL THEM TO DO.

NOBODY IS SAYING ANYTHING THAT SAYS OTHER THAN I'M GOING TO DO THE MISSION.

BUT INSTEAD, HE IS TAKING 80 PEOPLE OFF OF PROMOTION LISTS, MAINLY WOMEN AND BLACK OFFICERS.

HE HAS FIRED FIVE OF THE EIGHT MEMBERS OF THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF WITH NO, NOT TELLING ANYBODY WHY HE IS DOING IT.

>> AND PART OF THE PUSHBACK FROM REPUBLICANS, TARA, IS THAT THIS IS HAPPENING WHILE WE ARE IN INVOLVED IN CONFLICTS SO THE TIMING, SOME OF THEM ARGUE, COULD NOT BE WORSE.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

YOU KNOW, THIS OPERATIONAL CONFUSION, THIS IS THE WORST TIME TO DO THIS.

AND AS TY HAS ABSOLUTELY POINTED OUT, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT THERE IS A NEED FOR THIS.

YOU ARE LOSING THE EXPERIENCE THAT THESE GENERALS AND ADMIRALS WOULD BRING AT A TIME WHEN YOU ALSO, YOU KNOW, IF THE REPORTS ARE TO BE BELIEVED, HAVE A GROWING MORALE PROBLEM IN THE MILITARY SO, YOU KNOW, THIS IS LIKE THE WORST TIME TO DO THIS.

AND THE RATIONALE FOR IT REALLY HASN'T BEEN SHOWN OTHER THAN TO SAY THIS WILL MAKE THE MILITARY MORE EFFICIENT AND IT WILL SAVE MONEY.

BUT THERE HAS BEEN NO PROOF OF THAT.

>> RIGHT.

NO PROOF OF THAT AND SO WHERE DO YOU COME IN ON THIS?

>> WELL, I THINK BOTH MADE REALLY GOOD POINTS, THAT TARGETING THE ROLES TO MAKE A MORE EFFICIENT AND EFFECTIVE MILITARY WOULD BE ONE THING.

BUT TARGETING SPECIFIC PEOPLE IS A DIFFERENT THING.

I THINK THAT IS WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO, IF YOU ARE SPECIFICALLY TARGETING PEOPLE, INDIVIDUALS, ON A LIST FOR PROMOTION VERSUS TRYING TO TRIM BACK WHERE YOU HAVE EXTRA LAYERS THAT YOU DON'T NEED, OR IT'S GROWN TO A POINT WHERE YOU NEED QUICKER DECISIONS AND PEOPLE ARE GETTING IN THE WAY.

IT NEEDS TO BE EVALUATED FOR THAT.

AND THAT SEEMS LIKE AN AFTER THOUGHT ARGUMENT.

>> WELL, THE STATED RATIONALE, TY, IS THAT HE IS BOOSTING COMBAT READINESS.

AND SO IF NOT THE INDIVIDUALS AND THEIR WHOLE GROUPS OF PEOPLE THAT HE IS SORT OF FOCUSED ON, WHAT ABOUT THE COMBAT READINESS?

>> HE OFTEN SAYS LETHALITY.

THAT IS HIS TRADEMARK BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT THE LAST TIME WE HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE ENEMY HAVING MORE LETHAL MEANS THAN WE DID WAS 1950 AT THE BEGINNING OF THE KOREAN WAR.

THAT'S THE LAST TIME ANYBODY OUT LETHALLED US.

SO THE PROBLEM THAT HE IS HAVING, HE WANTS TO CUT THE NUMBER OF GENERALS AND ADMIRALS.

THEY DID A STUDY OF THIS IN THE LATE 90S AND SAID NO, IN FACT IF YOU LOOK AT OUR MISSIONS WE ACTUALLY NEED MORE.

THE REASONS BACK IN WORLD WAR II WE DIDN'T HAVE CYBER AND SPACE AND CARE AND WE DIDN'T HAVE THE PARTNERSHIPS WE HAVE ALL OVER THE GLOBE.

SO IN FACT WE NEED THAT.

AND WHAT HE IS DOING BY CUTTING THIS 20%, HE HAS TO DO IT BY THE FIRST OF JANUARY, HE IS TAKING OUT CENTURIES WORTH OF EXPERIENCE.

IT TAKES 25 YEARS TO BE A GENERAL, 25 YEARS.

AND YOU CAN'T BRING SOMEBODY IN LATERALLY.

SO HE IS TAKING OUTY NOMPLE US AMOUNT OF EXPERIENCE.

AND PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCED OVER THE LAST 25 YEARS OF WAR.

THESE ARE NOT PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN RESTING OVER THE LAST QUARTER CENTURY.

>> SO YOU LOSE THAT EXPERIENCE.

AND AS THIS IS HAPPENING, TARA, THE DEFENSE DEPARTMENT HAS REQUESTED A RECORD $1.5 TRILLION BUDGET FOR 2027 BECAUSE THE EMPHASIS IS MORE ON TECHNOLOGY THAN ON THE KIND OF EXPERIENCE THAT TY IS TALKING ABOUT.

DO YOU HAVE A REACTION TO THAT?

>> IT IS VERY MUCH CONCERNING ME BECAUSE FIRST OF ALL, NOT THAT WE SHOULDN'T FOCUS ON TECHNOLOGY.

WE ALL KNOW THAT IS THE FUTURE.

WE KNOW THAT.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS THAT MANY OF THE PEOPLE THAT HEGSETH AND OTHERS ARE SUGGESTING WILL BE BROUGHT IN ARE PRIVATE CONTRACTORS.

THEY'RE NOT PEOPLE WHO HAVE NECESSARILY A MILITARY BACKGROUND OR MILITARY MINDSET.

AND WHAT YOU REALLY NEED IS SOMEONE WHO CAN MERGE THOSE TWO TOGETHER.

NOW DON'T GET ME WRONG.

YOU CAN LEARN FROM THE PRIVATE SECTOR.

THEY CAN BE ADVISERS.

BUT THE WAY THIS IS BEING LOOKED AT, THEY REALLY WANT THE PRIVATE SECTOR TO BE ALMOST LEADING THIS.

ANOTHER CONCERN IS ONE OF HEGSETH'S OTHER PROPOSALS IS THAT HE IS GOING TO MAKE IT A COMPETITION BETWEEN STATES TO BUILD THE BEST MILITARY-- I'M GOING TO CALL IT FORTRESS, MILITARY OPERATIONS WITHIN THEIR STATE AND THIS IS GOING TO BECOME A COMPETITION.

NOT ABOUT IS THIS WHAT IS NECESSARY FOR THE STRATEGIC PROTECTION OF THE UNITED STATES.

JUST WHAT LOOKS THE BEST AND IS THE PRETTIEST?

>> I WOULD REALLY LOVE TO SEE THE REPORTS ON THE NEW MANDATORY ANNUAL TESTOSTERONE SCREENING FOR MALES OVER 30.

SO NOW MOVING ON.

THE CENSUS BUREAU IS PLANNING TO DROP RACE-RELATED QUESTIONS FROM THE 2030 CENSUS TAKING.

THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION CLAIMS THAT RACIAL DATA ARE NO LONGER USEFUL AND IN FACT THAT THEY ARE IMMATERIAL TO THE CONSTITUTIONAL MANDATE TO CONDUCT A POPULATION HEAD COUNT EVERY 10 YEARS.

BUT CRITICS SAY, ELIMINATING RACE DATA WILL MAKE IT HARDER TO TRACK AND RACIAL DISPARITIES.

AND ALSO WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THE COUNTRY ON THAT FRONT.

SO TARA, WHERE ARE YOU IN THIS DEBATE?

>> ABSOLUTELY THIS DATA SHOULD NOT BE ELIMINATED.

PART OF THE PROBLEM BEGAN WITH THE 2020 CENSUS AND HOW CERTAIN QUESTIONS WERE WORDED.

FOR EXAMPLE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS ADDED WAS PEOPLE COULD CHECK A BOX THAT SAID OTHER RACES.

YOU COULD CHECK TWO BOXES.

ONE OF THE THINGS THEY FOUND IS THAT HISPANICS CHECKED OTHER RACES.

THERE WAS ANOTHER BOX THAT ASKED PEOPLE OF MIDDLE EASTERN ORIGIN, ENCOURAGING THEM TO CHECK THE BOX WHITE BUT THEN TO PUT ON A LINE WHAT YOUR ACTUAL ETHNICITY OR ORIGIN WAS.

AND SO THERE WAS CONFUSION CREATED.

WELL, UNFORTUNATELY, UNDER THIS CURRENT ADMINISTRATION, THAT CONFUSION IS BEING USED AS THE BASIS FOR ELIMINATING QUESTIONS ABOUT RACE AND ELIMINATING WE SHOULD NOTE, MANY NON-CITIZENS HERE ON APPROPRIATE VISAS, ET CETERA.

STUDENTS, ET CETERA.

AND SO WHAT WAS A REAL REALLY SORT OF FORMULAIC ISSUE THAT NEEDED TO BE RESOLVED IS NOW BEING USED TO ELIMINATE RACE QUESTIONS.

WHAT IT IS GOING TO DO IS ELIMINATE VERY IMPORTANT DATA THAT NOT ONLY IS USED TO SHOW DISPARITIES IN SERVICES, GOVERNMENT PROGRAMS, POVERTY, ET CETERA, BUT IT IS ALSO DATA USED BY BUSINESS.

AND I FOUND IT VERY INTERESTING.

IT IS A COMPANY CALLED AFFIRM AT THIS.ORG HAS SENT OUT A MESSAGE TO ALL OF THEIR CUSTOMERS SAYING THAT IF THIS PROPOSAL GOES THROUGH, AND I'M GOING TO QUOTE "WILL I AM FACT WORKFORCE ANALYTICS EEO BENCHMARKS PAY EQUITY STUDIES, DIVERSITY REPORTING ET CETERA."

AND THEY'RE ALREADY ADVERTISING THEIR BUSINESS AS ONE WAY THAT EMPLOYERS CAN GET THE INFORMATION THAT MIGHT GET LOST IF THIS GOES THROUGH IN THE CENSUS.

>> BUT WHAT THE OTHER SIDE OF THIS, BEN, THAT CONTINUING TO HAVE US CLASSIFY OURSELVES BY RACE IS TO REINFORCE THE IMPORTANCE OF RACE IN COUNTRY THIS?

AT SOME POINT, DO WE HAVE TO JUST FORGET ABOUT THIS THE?

>> YES, BUT WE ARE NOT THERE.

WOULD I LOVE TO BE THERE.

I'M A BIG STAR TREK FAN AND LOVE THE IDEA THAT IT'S NOT PART OF PEOPLE'S SELF IDENTITY AND COMMUNITY THAT THEY TEND TO BE DRAWN TOWARDS AND HAVE REAL IMPACTS OUTSIDE OF THAT.

THE BOTTOM LINE IS THIS CENSUS HAS BEEN AND IS BEING USED AS A KIND OF AN ANCHORING PART FOR A LOT OF OTHER DATA SETS LIKE TARA SAID.

AND UNTIL WE DON'T CARE WHAT RACE YOU ARE WHEN WE ARE HIRING YOU, WHEN WE ARE NOT SEEING-- LITERALLY NOT SEEING THAT IN OURSELVES AND OTHER PEOPLE, WE ARE JUST NOT THERE.

SO THE REALITY IS THAT IT IS PART OF-- IT'S TIED TO TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN FUNDING.

IT'S TIED TO ALL SORTS OF DIFFERENT THINGS.

IT IS AN ANCHOR POINT FOR A COMMON DENOMINATOR THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE.

>> AS A SOCIETY, WE STILL THINK IN TERMS OF RACIAL AND ETHNIC IDENTITY.

IF I CALL AND REPORT A SUSPICIOUS PERSON NEAR MY HOME, THE FIRST THING THEY'RE GOING ASK, YOU KNOW, WHAT RACE THIS IS PERSON.

TY, THIS MOVE HISTORICAL?

>> IT IS COMPLETELY AHISTORICAL.

THE FIRST CENSUS IS 1790.

IT IS IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT WE MUST HAVE A CENSUS.

IN THAT CENSUS WE WERE MEASURING 3/5 OF A HUMAN, WHICH IS IN THE CONSTITUTION THAT SOUTHERN STATES USED TO INCREASE THEIR POLITICAL POWER THAT ENSLAVED PEOPLE COUNT AS 3/5.

WE HAVE ALWAYS HAD A CENSUS DONE BY RACE BECAUSE IT'S PART OF THE AMERICAN EXPERIENCE OF RACE IS PART OF THE AMERICAN EXPERIENCE.

AND I JUST THINK THIS IS A BAD IDEA FOR ADMINISTRATION THAT IS FAMOUS FOR BAD IDEAS.

AND AS A HISTORIAN, I HAVE USED THE CENSUS DATA TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND HOW WE WERE IN THE PAST AS A DIFFERENT COUNTRY.

THE ONLY WAY DO THIS IS TO HAVE THE CENSUS DATA.

IT'S THE FIRST TOOL A HISTORIAN USES.

RACE MAY BE A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT.

HUMANS ARE 99.9% THE SAME.

AS A MAMMAL, WE ARE THE LEAST DIVERSE OF ANY MAMMAL, BUT AS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT, IT'S VERY REAL RACISM IS THE VIRUS IN THE AMERICAN DIRT, ALWAYS HAS BEEN.

WE HAVE TO HAVE AN ABILITY TO UNDERSTAND IT TO DEAL WHICH RECENTLY APPROVED THE FITS ROY RIVER IN AWE STRAIL AUSTRALIA AS THE ROWING AND CANOEING VENUE FOR THE 2032 SUMMER OLYMPICS.

THE PROBLEM IS THAT IT HOLDS ABOUT 500 CROCODILES AND WHEN ASKED, THE OLYMPIC COMMITTEE-- I ASKED ABOUT THE DANGER, THE OLYMPIC COMMITTEE SAID WELL DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT.

THE WATER WILL BE COOL AT THAT TIME AND SO THEREFORE, THE CROCODILES WILL BELEY THANCHIC-- LETHARGIC.

THEY WILL BE OKAY.

>> MY F TO A CLOSED ALLIGATOR ALCATRAZ.

THE INSPECTOR GENERAL REPORT CAME OUT FROM MANY MONTHS AGO.

BUT THEY DESCRIBED INADEQUATE LIVING, FAILURES OF GIVING PROPER MEDICAL CARE, FOOD, HYGIENE, IN PARTICULAR, HALF OF THE-- IT WAS HALF THE DESIGNATED LIVING SPACE THAT THEY WERE LIVING IN.

SO 29 SQUARE FEET VERSUS THE 75 SQUARE FEET THAT IS THE MINIMUM.

SO THE BOTTOM LINE IS DETENTION AUTHORITIES, THEY HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO MEET BASIC HUMAN NEEDS.

>> TY FROM CROCODILES TO ALLIGATOR ALCATRAZ.

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO TALK ABOUT?

SNAKES?

>> I'M GOING TO TALK ABOUT DARREN BEATY, A SENIOR OFFICER IN THE STATE DEPARTMENT.

HE SAID THAT NATO WAS A GREATER THREAT THAN COMMUNIST CHINA, THAT PUTIN IS BRAVE AND STRONG.

HE PRAISED JANUARY 6 AND CALLED FOR MASS STERILIZATION OF "LOW I.Q.

TRASH."

A WHITE NATIONALIST.

WE TALKED ABOUT HEGSETH BUT THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE IN THIS DESCRTION WHO SHOULD NOT BE THERE.

GOVERNMENT IS SERIOUS BUSINESS FOR SERIOUS PEOPLE AND WE HAVE TOO MANY PEOPLE LIKE BEAD NECESSITY GOVERNMENT.

I CAN'T WAIT TO BRING EXPERTISE BACK.

>> AND SO NOW WE ARE GOING TO MOVE TO ANOTHER PART OF OUR EXPERTISE, OUR AS.

STARTING AGAIN WITH YOU, TARA.

>> TO CONGRESSMAN KEVIN MULLIN, SENATOR DICK DURBIN AND A GROWING POPULATION OF PAN-ASIAN COMMUNITY ACTIVISTS WHO ARE PROTESTING THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES AND RECORDS ADMINISTRATION DECISION TO CLOSE ITS SAN FRANCISCO AND CHICAGO OFFICES.

THIS WOULD LIMIT ACCESS TO OVER A MILLION RECORDS, ESPECIALLY THOSE OF ASIAN-AMERICAN, NATIVE HAWAIIAN AND PACIFIC ISLAND COMMUNITIES.

>> MY A GOES TO HOW LONDON'S SCIENCE MUSEUM CELEBRATED STAR TREK'S 60th ANNIVERSARY.

LAST MONTH, FANS GATHERED AT THE MUSEUM TO CELEBRATE THE ANNIVERSARY.

ALMOST A THOUSAND HELD THE VULCAN SALUTE IN UNISON FOR AT LEAST A MINUTE.

THIS HARMLESS COLLECTIVE SILLINESS AND SHARED CULTURAL ENTHUSIASM AT A MUSEUM IS GREAT BECAUSE YOU HAD A THOUSAND PEOPLE NEARLY AGREEING ON THE SAME THING, WHICH IS TRULY SCIENCE FICTION.

>> SO I HAVE A TWO FOR ONE BECAUSE I LOVE THE POST OFFICE.

HERE IS A STAMP OF THE POST OFFICE AND A FREE PRESS.

SO NPR, PBZ, "WALL STREET JOURNAL," "NEW YORK TIMES" CONTINUE TO INFORM AND HOLD THE POWERFUL ACCOUNTABLE TO THE PEOPLE.

PART OF THE FREE PRESS IS THE ACADEMIC FREEDOM WE AT THIS TABLE ENJOY AT OUR SCHOOLS, INCLUDING HAMILTON COLLEGE.

WE CAN GIVE OUR OPINION WITHOUT FEAR.

AND I CHERISH THAT RIGHT AS SHOULD ALL AMERICANS.

>> CONVERSATION HERE IN THE STUDIO, BEFORE WE GO, A SHOUTOUT TO JIM OF JAMESVILLE, WHO WROTE TO SHARE HIS DISMAY AT HOW FAR THE COUNTRY HAS MOVED FROM BELIEF IN A HIGHER POWER WE'D LIKE TO HEAR FROM THE REST OF YOU TOO, OUR EMAIL ADDRESS IS, IVORY TOWER AT WCNY.ORG.

IF YOU WANT TO WATCH THE SHOW AGAIN OR SHARE IT WITH SOMEONE ELSE, GO TO OUR WEBSITE, WCNY.ORG.

I'M NINA MOORE.

FOR ALL OF US HERE AT "IVORY TOWER," HAVE A GREAT NIGHT AND SEE YOU HERE NEXT WEEK.