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- The development of our identity takes place throughout our lifetime, but for teens they're just starting to get a perception of themselves and to understand how other people perceive them.

We're going to talk today with a great group of students from University High School to learn a little bit more about how teens try on identities to better understand themselves and come to terms with their own identity.

My name is Rhonda Herb.

This is Teen Talk on Valley PBS, and thanks so much for watching.

When we talk about teen identity, what factors are we generally talking about?

- So, in terms of development and psychology, identity is a word that refers to the entire individual.

And so when we're talking about identity, it's not just the own person's experience of us, it's our cognitive experience of ourselves, it's our cognitive experiences with other people.

It's our psychological, our emotional identities.

So, there's a lot of factors wrapped into that.

But I would say that the most important thing that we've learned in developmental neuropsychology is that our identity begins at birth, right in that infant developmental period with our interactions with our primary caregivers.

And our experience of our primary caregivers is what begins the foundation of our framework of our identity.

And so, the development of an identity, that's not something that we're just dealing with in adolescence.

That's something that has begun all the way down in infancy, but it does become really important.

There's a developmental psychologist named Dr. Erickson who talked about identity being probably the number one thing that we have to figure out during our middle to late adolescent years.

- So, let's meet our students.

And I'd like to learn a little bit more about you.

And I'm gonna ask you what sounds like an easy question, but it's a very hard question.

Who are you?

If you had to describe yourself in a sentence or two to people who don't know you, who would you say you are?

Can we start with you, Karma.

- How I would explain myself is I am somebody who is curious about the world.

I believe that my curiosity drives all other morals and everything else that I care about.

- Great, thank you.

Blue?

- Might sound a little weird, but I describe myself as a golden retriever.

I'm loyal, I'm friendly.

I'm just always excited to do new things.

I participate in drama, speech and debate, a whole bunch of different clubs on campus.

I just like to be engaged in meeting new people.

- Thank you, I appreciate that.

Isaac, can you answer that question?

- Yeah, I would describe myself as someone very curious, someone who loves learning about anything, and someone who just strongly believes in what I believe in.

- Thank you.

Are you willing to share?

- Yes, I kinda like to consider myself somebody who is also pretty curious and I love to explore and I just love life.

And I'm a big theater person too, so like any chance I get to act or sing, I will take it.

So, I just, I love life.

(laughs) - Thank you, Isabel?

- I would call myself a pretty energetic person as well as caring.

I really try to be cognitive of other people around me and give as much as I can.

- Thank you, I appreciate all of that.

Geni, I'm gonna ask you a question.

- Sure.

- You've been a counselor here for about 15 years, you said.

So, you worked with a lot of different student bodies.

What do you notice about teens dealing with identity issues?

When you think about this topic, what comes to mind for you?

- Well, I think here at our school, we're kind of this unique little cohort of students where our students are very accepting of each other.

They know each other.

It gives them a chance to really be who they wanna be.

And we don't have those typical high school where this certain student group hangs over here and this student group hangs over here.

They kind of intermingle and mix and they embrace each other.

And I think that gives them a platform to really feel like they can be who they wanna be.

And we're accepting of that.

Like our staff, our faculty are very accepting of students.

And when they tell us, "I want to refer to maybe these different pronouns," we usually will say, "Absolutely."

Or if they wanna be called something different, we say, "Absolutely."

- Thank you, thanks for sharing.

Dr. Christopherson, you mentioned earlier about Dr. Erickson, who, if I recall from a long, long time ago, has been around in the past, right?

Not a recent person on this topic, but yet the topic of identity for teens seems to be fairly new topic.

What's going on there?

It's always been a matter of growing up and reaching adulthood.

So, what's new now?

- Well, I would say that in, you know, at any different time throughout history, adolescent years have had their own cultural milieu, so to speak.

The society in which an adolescent is growing.

And so if we look at today's society, there are some new recent developments, things like social media and the pervasiveness of instant access to the internet and things like that.

And so I think being inundated as a young person in a situation in which there's this constant access to other people's lives, giving us the perception that everyone also has constant access to our life.

And so there was a researcher who once talked about some of the ideas about why adolescents have certain kinds of common behaviors, and they described something called the imaginary audience, in that when we're in our teenage years, it is as if psychologically we feel that we're always on stage and that we're always being watched and perceived by everyone else.

And that wanes significantly as we go towards our 30s, to the point where we start to feel like it kind of doesn't matter as much as it used to what I look like to other people.

And the classics from TV shows about young people who have a pimple and it's the end of the world and then a 30-year-old who has a pimple and it's like, "Oh, this is another day that ends, and why."

- Yeah.

Did that resonate with any of you?

Are you thinking about your own experiences or maybe your experiences relative to your parents?

Do you feel like you're growing up in a time that has a little more reflection on you and who you are and how you are perceived by the community of people you work in?

Karma, you're nodding?

- Yeah, I absolutely related to that.

You know, I feel like that my life kind of gets put in this place where everybody can see what I'm doing, what I'm up to.

And I say that as someone who doesn't post often on social media.

I still have this perception that the world can see me, so therefore something wrong becomes amplified.

- So, you are all students at University High School, which is a performing school.

You're all required to do a lot of performance.

You're all musicians and some of you also do theater and debate as well.

So, that's a type of performance, right?

How much do you think performance fits into the identity that you are constructing?

Is that a large part of who you think you are, Blue?

- Yeah, I think it's kind of, you know, it gives you an access point to be creative to kind of put yourself out there, here at UHS.

And I think it's helped me figure out who I am, because it's a way to in theater be someone who you're not and it kind of gives you a chance to reflect on what really makes you who you are, because you're trying to figure out what makes this character that you're trying to portray.

- So, parents who are listening right now and are thinking, "Well, my kids aren't going to performing school of any kind, what can I do to help them develop a positive sense of self?"

What advice do you give them as a professional?

- When we're going through our teenage years, we're trying out different identities.

We're trying out different roles, and it's not so much that we're trying out different core identities in terms of our values, what we think is good, or bad, or right, or wrong, as much as it is maybe what costume we're wearing, or what part we are playing.

And so parents can really just take a breath, be patient and try to get to know their child, try to understand, "Hey, what is it about this thing that you're doing that is so interesting to you?

What is it about that style?

What is it about these behaviors?

What are the things that are interesting to you?"

And then of course, to just be watch out for any risk factors.

- So, Geni as a school counselor here, this concept of costumes and trying on hairstyles and how we're going to show ourselves to the outside public, is this something that you've dealt with a lot?

And what advice would you have for parents?

- Yeah, similar to what he was saying, I do see some students start one way as freshman year and then evolve into other personas and doing different things, wearing different things, changing their hairstyle, you know, changing their pronouns.

We've seen students kind of go through that.

And again, it's just making that connection.

We try to reach out to our parents, and sometimes parents aren't on the same page as a student, and that's where as I always kind of feel like I'm the middle person between the school and home and bridging that gap.

And so really trying to make sure, you know, what is it sort of that the parents are expecting.

And then kind of the, we try to honor as much as we can the wishes of our students while they're here with us at our school.

And I think too, when students come to talk to me specifically, oftentimes they can't feel like they have that relationship with their parents and so I really try to just listen and validate them and help them discuss whatever they want to talk about.

- So, I'd like to ask the students now to think about this from the other side.

You're experimenting, let's say you're trying out some different identities, some different ways of behaving or showing yourself off.

How do you wish your parents, or the caregivers, or the friends in your life would react to that?

Do you even want them to react?

Do you want them to just see it as normal?

Do you want people to comment on it, engage you in conversation?

- I think it's just really important for parents to acknowledge that there is something different and acknowledge that, oh, you're trying on, do a different identity and like one, understand that maybe this isn't a permanent identity, but also to respect it as though it could be a permanent identity.

Because I think a lot of parents fall into this niche of, "They're changing so much, I just could ignore what's going on during these years 'cause it's not permanent."

Even though they might stick with that identity or might stick with that activity.

And it's important to still respect that.

And so, I like when my parents they acknowledge that I've changed my hair, I've done this, but it doesn't need to be more than, doesn't need to be a conversation, just be like a, "We see you, we're here for you."

That's cool.

- Well, I'd like to add onto that and just, you know, add that it is scary when change is happening.

That's a very common fear between us as we're changing, our parents as we're changing.

And it can be scary and I think that that is okay.

I think it could be acknowledged that this is a scary thing, but just accepting that change is happening is easier said than done, but so important.

- Thank you.

Okay, Isaac?

- Yeah, I'll just add on to what everyone else said.

Specifically, if you are a parent, it's not easy, but you made me feel like I do something wrong.

Why have they made these changes?

Why are they rejecting me?

And it's nothing personal because the individual is just trying to figure out who they are.

And who they are might not be who you want them to be or who you raised them to be, but that's okay.

And it's not easy to accept the change, which is why on both sides it's just really important to have communication.

So, I think you can try to understand both sides.

- Thank you.

Where do you think teens are getting their ideas from when they're considering identities, or qualities, or characteristics to try on?

Do you think social media has a big impact?

Do you think film, literature, TV, where do you get ideas from and how do those become something serious that somebody wants to try to embrace?

- I think it comes from who and what you value.

So, oftentimes, like I'm trying to figure out my identity and what it means to be a man, but due to a lack of a father I have to look for other places for that.

Looking in media, social media, books, you know, the other men around me in my life, teachers, uncles, et cetera.

And so people can get identity from different places, from just people, the things that they value, whether it be friends, teachers, media, et cetera.

- Great, thank you.

So, I'm gonna come back to you and we've hinted at this, but I'd like to explore a little further.

So, when parents are concerned that their kids aren't fitting in, don't have connections, aren't part of a community, when do we decide intervention is the next route, and what does that look like?

- You know, intervention can look like a lot of different things.

It doesn't necessarily immediately mean that we need to seek professional help or mental health resources, because sometimes intervention can look like reaching out to school counselors, to some of the teachers, just to figure out, "Hey, here's some things that I'm noticing about my child."

And one of the things that parents can look to is any significant changes in their child.

So, if their child goes from being a very socially active child to being a very withdrawn child, then those significant changes, while they could be just a part of development, it can also be a sign that maybe we're struggling in some way.

And, you know, I think that resistance to reaching out to get help is more a human thing than it is a child or adolescent thing.

And so it can be really hard to say, "Mom, dad, I'm struggling and I really want help," because we so desperately want to feel like we're successful, to feel that we are fitting in and that we're being accepted by our peer groups.

- Geni, I wanna come back to you.

Do you hear from parents, do parents contact you, as Dr. Christopherson was saying earlier, do you feel like you're a method for them to have a conversation about concerns they might be having about their kids?

- Absolutely, so, I mean, being, there's just two counselors here at our school and we have a small course load, caseload here, parents do.

We try to be very visible so that parents feel that they can call us for help or for resources.

I get pretty frequent calls, whether it be just, something happened at home and they wanna let someone at the school know, or this may be going on, or they notice these changes at home, you know, and then they call and they wanna know, "Are these changes also happening at school or is this just a home thing?"

So, we're kind of like, I've mentioned before, that bridge between home and school.

- Do you feel that those concerns from parents and students have increased in the time that you've been in this position?

- Absolutely, and even, especially after the pandemic when we saw a lot of these students that were socially isolated, I was doing home visits just to make sure students were okay.

But what we've seen since then is this larger amounts of anxiety and stress.

Now, there was even added pressure and they were, they're scared, they're anxious about everything.

And it just seemed that after the pandemic things got heightened.

- Did any of you as students feel that going through the pandemic had an impact on who you were starting to become?

- I was given a lot of time to reflect on who I was and what I believed in.

And I feel like it was a, well, I mean, the pandemic was horrible.

It gave me a chance to really reflect on who I was, and I think coming back it was difficult to socialize and everything, but I sort of, I was able to get it together and through drama actually, I was able to meet new people.

And it was a good experience, like coming back and being able to sort of reenter the world with a new perspective.

- Did it teach you some important things, do you think?

- I think so, yes, yeah.

- Yeah, thank you everybody.

I wanna ask if anyone here knows anyone that you think has been mistreated, treated poorly because of identity issues?

Does anybody have any friends like that in your cohort?

Isaac, you wanna start?

- We have a couple neurodiverse students at campus, and it's hard to accept that people are different than you.

And unfortunately, sometimes we don't understand a person.

That lack of understand means to fear and mistrust, which that means to hate.

And so unfortunately, you have that.

- You have seen that.

And ladies, you both raised your hand.

- I would like to continue that, because I wanted to talk about my two brothers, both of them have autism.

We've known this their whole life, and they have been mistreated by their peers at various schools that they've been to.

And it's really sad to see, like Isaac said, how this hate stems from just not understanding why they're different.

I think that in the age of social media, we see all these people who are just so much the same, because the persona they put on the internet is not real.

And so, yes, there are people in this world who are different, we're all different.

But now we have this extra layer of, well, we see all these people on social media who are so fake, why isn't everybody like this?

And those two things together are dangerous.

- Thank you, Blue?

- Yeah, and I think things are pretty good at UHS, but there's always gaps.

And I think it's really hard, 'cause we're a very academically rigorous school.

It's, I think a lot.

There's definitely, I definitely know some other students, some friends of mine that struggle more because they're neurodiverse, because this is much more academically challenging than what they're used to.

And it's a hard combination, 'cause they, the community is great and a lot of us work really hard, but there's always like there is some disconnect because there's, students that are excelling academically and students that are excelling less academically.

And while there is a lot of respect for each other, they, sometimes students don't get along or don't respect that we're different and stuff.

Definitely be better.

- So Karma, what do you wish people would do differently?

Thinking specifically about your brothers and how they are treated, what would you like to tell other teens to do differently to help people who are in these situations?

- I think that you need to not react immediately.

My brothers' autism, they both have things that are very obvious.

For example, one of them talks in a very monotone voice, and that is something he's been made fun of before.

I think instead of reacting immediately and letting your mind just go, I think you need to really think about, "Is this appropriate for me to say?

Is there a reason that this might be?"

And this doesn't just apply to their autism, but for everybody, I think we need to think about why it is that we think this, why do we wanna say this?

Because we all have negative thoughts and implicit biases, whether we want to admit it or not.

So, we should really think about it before we put words out there.

Or even worse, type something that's going to forever be on the internet because I don't think that anybody's legacy should be one of hate.

- So, I'd like to ask you final question to kind of wrap this up.

We heard these great stories from these students.

If we've got parents at home listening and thinking, "I don't know how to help my children even dream a dream, let alone how to move in that direction."

What advice would you have to help them start that dialogue?

- Well, I think that these students present a great example of the fact that if we listen, they're going to express things that they're interested in.

I think that they're helping kids recognize that what they're interested in can be something that they drive for.

One of the things that I would say that we know most of all, is that there's a good likelihood that what we're interested in when we're young is probably not gonna be the thing that we're interested when we're old.

Because, you know, we ask questions like, "What are you gonna do in 10 years?"

And we have this, "Oh, I know exactly what I'm gonna do in 10 years."

But maybe that changes and we go hotdog vending style.

And so one thing we know though is that the development of skills in chasing after a goal creates general skills that will apply to anything that we end up doing.

And so helping kids develop whatever thing they're interested in in that moment is a great thing to do, because they're gonna develop skills that will help them even in different kinds of environments or different kinds of careers that they end up in.

And so by developing skills in the moment, just on random things that you're interested in, that will give you lots of skills in the future that you'll be able to apply wherever it is you land, whatever it is you end up doing.

- Geni, any comment as the school counselor on this topic?

- Yeah well, something, I don't know if you guys remember, but I never asked students what they wanna be when they grow up.

I ask them what problems do they wanna solve?

Because I think that's the greater question.

What do they really see something out in our community or the community at large?

And what problems do they see and what would they, how would they wanna solve?

What do they wanna solve in that community?

And as we know, many of the careers that these students may end up doing, they may not even exist yet.

So, that's always something that I share with our students and parents.

And you know, I know certainly there's always those ideas and we want our, I don't know, for our children to, obviously be contributing members of our society and that we want them to strive and reach their goals.

And we're gonna, we definitely have ideas that we like our students and especially for parents, we have ideas we want our children, you know, of what we want them to do.

But I think it's important that they start realizing that they've gotta figure out, you know, based on their strengths, their skills, and what they're learning in their education, how can that push them?

Because I certainly didn't start out as wanting to be a school counselor.

I didn't, I bounced around majors of all kinds before I landed into school counseling.

And that's why I tell them they don't have to have it figured out right now.

And it's just getting through this chapter, through K-12, and then from there they go on to the next chapter and they start figuring that out.

And so that's kind of, I have those conversations with students and parents so that that way it takes off some of that edge and that pressure that sometimes our students really start to put on themselves when they think, "I've gotta be that doctor.

I gotta be this, I gotta be that."

- I think that, to build on that, just one final thought is, it's more important to instill values.

I've met an elementary school teacher recently who in a similar vein doesn't ask what his students wanna be.

He asks them, "Well, what kind of person do you want to be when you grow up?"

And he focuses that conversation on the kind of person that you're developing, your kindness, your compassion, your empathy, your capability for doing things for other people.

And so, as parents work with their children in terms of developing the kind of person that they're going to be, then it takes off a lot of that stress of what person, or what career, or what paycheck or salary that I need to chase after?

- Thank you, thank you for adding that.

I appreciate that very much.

So, I wanna thank all of our students for being here with us today and for sharing so openly and honestly.

We appreciate you and your stories.

Dr. Christopherson and Geni Bird, thank you for joining us today from the high school.

Thank you for watching and being with us today for this very important topic on Teen Talk about teen identities.

We hope we've given you some ideas to stimulate conversations in your community as well.

Thank you.

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Fresno County Superintendent of Schools, Ascend Behavioral Health, Balance Kids, Learn4Life High Schools, CalViva Health, and Kepler Neighborhood School.