- Cathy Ringler of Clark Wyoming found success as a first time author, with a book about a teenage girl facing bullying.

Now she's written a sequel about that same girl, a couple of years older, facing new fears.

I'm Steve Peck of Wyoming PBS.

This is "Wyoming Chronicle."

(bright upbeat music) Funding for "Wyoming Chronicle" is made possible in part by Wyoming Humanities, enhancing the Wyoming narrative to promote engaged communities, and improve our quality of life.

And, by the members of Wyoming PBS.

Thank you for your support.

- Cathy Ringler, welcome to "Wyoming Chronicle."

You've been on the show once before, a shorter segment, but you were talking about a book that you wrote.

What was the title of your first work?

- My first book was called, "Miya's Dream."

This young girl overcame a lot of obstacles, and she barrel raced and she used her art, but she was mostly up against some bullies.

And when a new kid moved into town, she knew she had to take a stand.

- Now there's another Miya's book.

She's a little bit older, although it's been, more years have passed in your life than have passed in hers since you wrote the original.

Why a sequel?

It was more than just the publisher wanted another book.

It was, you thought it was worth doing.

- One thing is so many people read "Miya's Dream," both moms, grandmas, kids, and they all asked me to write another one.

- Good.

- They said, "We wanna hear more about Miya."

Lots of parents read "Miya's Dream" with their kids.

It deals with bullying and cyber bullying.

And they came back to me and said, "That was a very, a very helpful resource, even though I didn't mean it to be when I first wrote it."

"Miya's Mountain," I looked, took a look at kids that I knew.

I do a lot of volunteer work after Covid.

And I noticed that everyone, kids and grownups are a lot more fearful.

So this time I wanted Miya to be put in a situation where she is so afraid, that she has got to make some changes in her life.

And like every kid, she goes to YouTube, she goes to her friends, she tries different avenues before she's able to reach down deep inside herself, and conquer her own internal mountain.

- And it has more of a, for people who might compare it to the first book, more of kind of an adventure story sort of tone to it, is that correct?

- Exactly.

- And you were already shooting for that.

- Exactly.

I wanted to write an adventure story.

I wanted to write a story that people couldn't wait to turn the next page.

And, because we've had so many adventures out in the mountains, my family and I, I thought, "I can just use all those, things that happen to us, exaggerate 'em some, and have poor Miya come up against them."

- Let's talk about it just for a moment.

We're speaking to you in Powell, and you've been kind enough to meet us, not quite halfway, but you live a further distance up into the, into the mountains in the community of Clark, Wyoming.

- We do.

- Tell us just a bit about where you live and what that's like.

- Well, Clark is at the foot of the Beartooth Mountains.

And we have a beautiful, beautiful view from where we live, so it's very inspiring to write.

They have a small country school, two churches and a rec center.

And I taught at that country school for 26 years.

- 26 years.

- Yeah.

It was a great job.

You might have a child for K-2, and I did K-2 and special needs.

But, pretty soon you're gonna have their brother or sister, and their, and their cousins and their siblings.

So you get to be integrated into the whole families.

- And even in a small country school like that, these issues you're talking about with your character, they exist there.

- Oh, definitely.

Definitely.

- You mentioned as well, before we came on camera, an interesting detail about your life.

You moved around a lot as a child.

What did you tell me your dad's job was again?

- Well, my dad was actually a consultant for candy companies.

So he would go into a company, and he would take a look at all their specs, like Russell Stover or Godiva.

And when that was, when they had all been fixed or whatever, that's, we would move on to the next one.

So it gave us an opportunity, my brothers and sisters and I, to meet a lot of different people and go to a lot of different schools.

So I- - That's a nice way to put it.

- Yes.

I got to understand how it felt to be the new kid, to be the kid left out.

- What are those?

And that's been a long time ago now compared to Miya.

What about those circumstances, are universal from generation to generation, do you think?

- Oh, a sense of wanting to belong.

- [Steve] Yeah.

- Wanting to have friends, wanting to fit in.

Having to make choices.

Especially in a new place where you don't know everyone, and yeah, it can be tough.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

You taught K-2 you said?

- I did in Clark.

First of all, in Cody, I taught resource room.

- [Steve] Uh-huh.

- That was K-6 back in the day.

- Yeah.

- Then I got my dream job in Clark.

I taught K-2 and special needs, and then I went to Powell for the last three years of my career and only taught first grade.

- Where does the writing come from then?

- Well, even when I was teaching, I'd write shorter articles, newspaper, magazines, whatnot.

But I wrote for my students, because I found out if you're telling a story, you don't have any classroom management issues.

They're not out in the hall going through their backpacks and visiting, they're in that classroom, 'cause they know you're telling a story.

Also, I found out that if I had a good enough story to introduce a unit, I would could motivate them to be more interested in the unit.

- Sort of inadvertently, there's been a bit of a storytelling theme for our season of "Wyoming Chronicle."

We did a story, or a show on the new PhD program with storytelling at its base at the University of Wyoming.

- I watched that.

- Thank you.

- Yes.

- Went to the Piedmont Kilns, the old charcoal kilns that are left over down in southwest Wyoming.

And he was a historian who said, "I don't like dates, and memory and that stuff, but I love the word that's," the word, "History" contains the word "story."

Both said exactly what you said.

- Exactly.

- Starting there, it's a great way to get, to get people's attention, and getting their attention, then they can listen, you can tell 'em almost anything you need to, you want to.

- That's true.

Our brain craves a story.

And that's been documented with documents of research.

- So, Miya's dream began as a shorter thing.

Was that written for your students or publication elsewhere?

- Actually, that was written as a entry to a contest for Wyoming Writers, Young Adult.

- [Steve] Yes.

- And I was fortunate enough to read it.

This was five years ago.

I was fortunate enough to write it, and the judge wrote me a nice little paragraph at the end of the story, and she said, one of the things she said was, "I loved the character of Miya, and you should turn it into a novel."

- Hmm.

- So I made, I said, "Okay.

That's always been on my bucket list.

I'm gonna sit down and write a novel."

Not imagining how hard it really was going to be.

- Yeah.

For example.

- For example, for me, it's easy to come up with the beginning, and, but the middle is tough.

I'm one of the people who don't, who have an outline, but it's a loose outline.

- Mm-hmm.

So as my characters talk to me, I go here and there and everywhere.

And sometimes we go down, way down rabbit trails.

So that means I have to rewrite a lot.

But I usually have an idea of the next scene in my mind at least.

- Know where you're going.

- Right.

Know where I'm going.

- The roadmaps.

- Right.

- Not so specific.

- Right, right.

And you know, as you're writing this, this one actually took two and a half years.

Lots of times you're talking to your character internally, or maybe even out loud as you're taking a walk, or riding your bike or your horse.

So, they've become a part of your life, part of your family.

- I can imagine that writing a short story to enter in a one time contest as you did.

That's one thing.

"Make this into a novel," he said, she said.

- "She said."

Yes.

- Boom.

Easy.

- Right.

- Not so easy.

It took you a long time.

How long did it take you to get to "Miya's Dream?"

- Yeah, there was some stops and starts.

And the first publisher that I pitched it to was actually interested.

She went outta business.

But the next one I pitched it to has published both books.

So this was about three years total.

- Hmm.

- Yeah.

- Pitched it to a publisher.

Did you have an agent who did that for you?

- [Cathy] No.

- Or were you your own representative?

- Right.

That's, that's a hard thing.

I don't have an agent, but through Wyoming Writers, which is a great organization, if anyone is interested in becoming a writer, they should definitely join.

It's a wonderful organization.

They, every year at our conference, we have publishers that come and visit.

And so if you have work, you can pitch it to a, pitch it to a publisher.

Not only can you pitch your book, you also have to pitch your marketing plan.

And that's very important in today's- - Okay.

That's a good question.

- Yeah.

- What was your marketing plan?

Had you thought about that particularly?

- I had, and I looked at my strengths and weaknesses.

You know you have to do social media.

That's not my strength.

But I have a wonderful son-in-law who had a minor in graphic design, and he helped me set up all of that, and my website.

Since then, he's moved to Haymarket Virginia to train the horses that lay the veterans to rest at Arlington National Cemetery.

- Yeah.

- So he's not right next door, but he still helps me.

- Well, if it's the sort of work he does, he's right next door this way.

- He can do it remotely.

So social media is harder for me, but I still do it.

We have to.

I have a newsletter.

That's a big help too.

- Yeah.

- How often does that come out?

- Every other week.

And again, in the newsletter, I choose someone that's inspirational to me, and I tell a story.

- I see.

- You've mentioned the term, "Young Adult."

What's, in the world of writing, publishing, and reading, what does the young adult genre, is that the word, the young adult classification mean to you?

- That's a good question because it's kind of been shifting.

Now we have young, young adult, which is what "Miya's Dream" is.

So it's probably 12 through 16, although a lot of adults have enjoyed the book.

And as an adult, I like to read Young Adult.

I think lots of the writing is tighter.

But this one has, you know, no sex, no violence, nothing like that.

Whereas more of the young adult books are dealing with more mature themes.

This is just a girl conquering the mountain.

And there's like, as a matter of fact, when my grandson was reading it here, Jake is her friend, her good friend.

He supports her.

They've known each other forever and he supports her.

Here, they're actually moving their relationship to the next level.

So there is a kiss in there.

And Stetson was so disappointed.

He's like, "Whaa Miya!"

(Cathy laughs) but it's still, it's young adult, young adults.

- None of us is stuck in time.

- That's right.

That's right.

- It marches on.

Were you ever bullied?

Would you consider yourself to have been- - You know, - a bullied kid?

- It's hard to say.

Moving around so many different places, again, we were, I was one of five kids.

- [Steve] Yeah.

- So we always had each other to depend on.

And back when we were growing up, there was not the cyber bullying there is now.

- It's just a new world.

- Yeah.

But my own kids, from listening to them, they weren't necessarily bullied, but they were the kids who felt badly when they had, when they observed somebody else being bullied.

And so there's that whole group of kids who don't quite know what to do.

And that affects them almost as much as the child being bullied, or the bully themselves.

If you look at the research, the bullies when they grow up, aren't usually very happy people.

- Yeah.

Research.

So you didn't just say, "Here's what I think."

- Right.

No.

Just from years and years of teaching, and looking at that problem, and trying to find all kinds of different kinds of ways to solve it.

- [Steve] Mm-hmm.

- Yeah.

- I'm a 12, 13-year-old kid entering middle school, and I'm having a problem with a kid on the school bus or in the lunchroom.

What do I do about that?

- What do you do?

And you know, and if you read "Miya's Dream," I give you a whole bunch of ideas.

But- - What's one thing, a couple things that she did?

- Well, one thing she didn't do, was she was ashamed and embarrassed to bring up the situation to her parents.

- [Steve] Hmm.

- And I would say that that was because they wanted to help her.

They tried to help her.

They were already in her corner.

But she didn't do it.

Which is, I think a lot of kids think twice about it at that age.

- I wonder why that is.

- Yeah.

- Do they fear that dad's gonna go over and try to punch somebody in the nose, or- - Or, maybe, or maybe they're just trying to become independent, you know, taking those steps.

One thing that she does do that was right, that was a good thing, is when this other girl's being bullied, Miya brings her to a teacher at lunch.

Because the classroom is one of the, I mean, the lunchroom is one of the places where the bullying happens.

And so they, she takes her to her art teacher, Miya's an artist, and they, he allows the kids to work on art during lunch.

'Cause he understands how important that is too.

Well, Miya's friend isn't an artist, but he sees the problem, and she tries to do all kinds of things (Cathy laughs) with her art, which is just not an artist like me.

And, but he allows them to stay in that safe place.

That's, you know, one of the things that helps her to grow.

- Finding a safe place.

- Is finding a safe place, finding a teacher, a mentor, someone who's gonna stand up for you.

- Yeah.

And not stand up for you necessarily in a - [Cathy] Right.

- Another bullying, confrontational way- - Right.

- But in a way that works for you.

- Right.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And there's so many kids in that situation.

- Okay.

Give us the brief synopsis of the adventure that Miya goes through in the second book.

- Miya is looking forward to going to the state track meet to watch Jake.

She's been looking forward to it for months.

And, at the last minute, there's a glitch with the forest service leaves.

And her mom tells her that she's gotta ride the fence, because they have to turn the cows out the next day.

And Miya is 15, and she's upset, and angry, and mad, and she just huffs off on her horse.

And as she's riding along, she looks up on the mountain, and she sees an elk horn.

And she starts thinking, "You know, if I had that horn, I might be able to buy a cute new pair of jeans, I could start saving for those shoes."

And without thinking about the ramifications that the sun is not on that side of the mountain, that there's still snow here and there, that it's very, very steep, she just takes her horse, and she heads up after that Elkhorn.

Well, she runs into, she runs into ice, she runs into all kinds of things.

And she realized that she's putting her good horse, and herself in jeopardy as she actually starts to fall.

- Hmm.

Sounds exciting.

- Yes.

Yeah (Cathy laughs) That's just the start.

- But you do it not just to tell a whiz banger story.

She confronts things, she begins to think more, what would the word be?

More constructively after she's in trouble, than she did before she got into it.

And... - When she realizes now, that she's starting to become afraid of heights, she starts to problem solve as Miya did in the dream.

- Problem solve.

That's what I meant.

- So, of course, being a kid, she goes back to YouTube, and all kinds of things, her friends, whatnot, and she comes up with a plan, but some things work, some things don't.

Like one thing, she reads it, "Lavender, the smell of lavender is supposed to relax you as you're sleeping."

So she does a warmer, wax warmer with lavender, but then she decided it just smells like her grandmother's underwear drawer, and gets rid of the wax warmer.

You know?

So.

- Well there's some humor here too.

- There's starts and stops.

Right, exactly.

- Yes.

- Things that happen at the rodeo that are funny.

But eventually, she's gotta take that trip to the high mountains with a little boy and a dad, and Jake goes, and Jake's mom initially starts, but has to turn back.

- Mm.

You have a nice illustration on the cover.

Are books illustrated other than that?

- Nope.

No illustrations.

Just, which is, you know what most middle grade, and- - Yeah.

- Young adult.

No, just the covers.

- It's not a kids picture book, in other words.

- Right.

Exactly.

- Who is your artist for the cover illustrations?

- That's something that my publisher- - Publishers saw to that.

- Right, right.

She did.

And we worked together really well.

She allowed me to have some input.

And at first, the bridle was wrong on the horse, the horse's ears, you can see he's a paint horse, where she had a black forehead and white ears.

- And that just doesn't happen.

- Right, right.

And as a teacher, who's had so many kids be disappointed in things that aren't right- - People notice, don't they?

- In books?

- Oh my goodness, yes.

- And as you say, you're trying to engage them with a story, and you don't want anyone, a little reader stubbing your toe or something like that.

- Distracted by that.

For sure.

- We've talked about the aspect that social media and electronic media have, have now on communication for everybody.

You and I are of a generation where we didn't grow up with that.

We now live with it, but our kids and grandchildren, it is a way of life for them.

And it's not gonna go away.

- Right.

- How does that all strike you?

Has it been a good thing, a bad thing?

In between?

What do you feel about so much of our lives now being here and here, and six inches from our faces instead of where they used to be?

- I think it's important as parents and grandparents to say to the kids, "Yes, it's a, devices are a part of our lives."

- [Steve] Yeah.

- And you should know how to use them and use them well.

However, if you're always on your device, you're missing the opportunity to meet with other people, to learn so much from them, to go out and have adventures.

And if you can't have adventures, what are you gonna look back on?

What are you gonna write about?

What are you gonna think about?

- Yeah.

That's a, that's a multifaceted answer there.

Because some kids would say, "Well, I don't care if I don't meet other people.

I've got every, I've got this enormous social world right here."

But- - Right.

But, it's a fantasy.

- You'd sitting still all your life, an adventure you might have had.

And that's a good point.

What are you gonna look back on?

The golden days of staring at your phone.

- Exactly.

When you could have been out fishing, camping, hiking, riding.

- There's room for, I think the what the world of communication and invention that showed us, there's room for all of it.

Nothing, I think I'm, I read some conclusion that when I thought about it, it seemed right to me that there's really nothing that's ever been invented, that isn't still in use, at least in some way, whether it's the rock or the stick.

Good point.

- In some way it, we're just constantly adding on.

And this has been a big thing to, to add on.

You're more comfortable in the social media world yourself than you used to be because of that, or- - Because of this, yes.

And because, well, when I was on the board for Wyoming Writers, we did a lot of things.

And then when Covid hit and we all had to Zoom.

- [Steve] Yeah.

- As a matter of fact, when I was chosen as one of two storytellers, to tell a story at the National Storytelling Convention, that was during Covid and that was on Zoom.

So that was wonderful, 'cause I could have never traveled to South Carolina and told my story, told my five minute story.

So that was- - What was it?

She was a black lady in Montana who, rebel, she was the first black woman, she was the first woman to carry the mail in Montana.

And she was also the first black woman to do that too.

But anyway, that was the story I told.

It was quite an honor.

- Oh, good.

Do you write like this?

Do you write like this?

- I love the computer, because you can shift things, and change things, and delete things.

(Cathy laughs) - I've read about writers that, "Well, I write a hundred thousand words a year in long-hand, and I think, "You do?"

- [Cathy] Yeah, I know.

- Wow.

- Good for you.

- Think what you could do if you use the keyboard.

That's certainly what I found in my newspaper career, certainly was the faster I could type it, the better I'd like it.

I could- - Get those thoughts out.

- My fingers could keep up with what I was thinking.

- [Cathy] Right.

- So you do that.

And I taught a young adult writing group this summer.

- Teacher.

- And the kids, of course, just can type so fast, and their thoughts just meld so easily on.

I don't think they could write on paper.

- When you began writing it, and try to expand into the novel, how did you chart your course?

Or what was progress to you?

Some writers have a sentence, or word, or page goal.

- Right.

A lot of writers go for number of words.

- [Steve] Yeah.

- Word count.

That never worked for me.

- [Steve] Yeah.

- So what I would do is, I would write a scene, and I would have in my mind, the next scene I wanted to work on tomorrow.

And then tomorrow, I would go back and I'd rewrite that first scene, and then I'd write the next scene.

So scene by scene.

And towards the end, with this book, especially when it was crunch time and the publisher really wanted it, she wanted me to write like lots of scenes.

(Cathy laughs) And that was pretty hard for me.

I had to go to the library here at the college, and lock myself in.

- So the publisher here was wanting, was putting some heat on you.

Was there an editor that you were working with, or?

- The publisher actually hires two editors, two to three, depending, you know, like a line editor, and just people look at different aspects of the book.

- [Steve] Yeah.

- And so she was in charge of all that.

So then they went through it, and came back to me with their changes.

Well, it's in the contract that they can't change anything without my approval.

- [Steve] Mm-hmm.

- So for instance, this, the story I tell about this one is, because we need more urban people, in the barrel races, Miya enter up, you call it "entering up," and you enter up at the rodeo, you enter up at a jackpot.

Well, they took out all my ups, and they just had her enter.

And that was so awkward to me when I'd read the sentence, that I made 'em put 'em all back in.

- Yeah, just as awkward as the incorrect illustration of the paint horse would be.

- Right.

- People who read that aren't gonna be like, - "Yeah.

Rodeo particularly has some odd- - [Cathy] Right.

- Conventionally odd kind of things.

He won the average.

- Right, exactly.

- And isn't an average, it's - No, no - Accumulation.

It's, that's sort of the opposite of an average.

But that's, if you, if you don't say it that way, you're a- - Right.

- You're a greenhorn.

- They'll put down the book.

- Yeah.

- And in this one too, there's a lot of scenes where she's packing in the mountains.

Well, you have to get that across, the actual packing, you know, the ropes, and the pack saddles, and the panniers and all that.

But, you have to keep in mind that these kids, especially I think now that with their devices, their attention span isn't very long.

So you've gotta sneak those in, so that they can follow the story.

- [Steve] Yeah.

- But not belabor them.

- [Steve] Yeah.

- But they're getting the authentic treatments even if they know it's something jam down their throat, viewing it as a lesson.

It's just part, part of the story.

- Part of the book.

Right.

- So the editing process was okay, but- - It was okay.

We went back and forth several times.

- [Steve] Yeah.

It is what it is.

- It a long time.

Right.

It is what it is.

And they were patient with me, and I tried to be patient with them.

You know, there's a few things I couldn't, I couldn't bend on, but most of it, I was like, "Oh, that sounds good.

You made it a lot better.

Thanks."

- You have a point sometimes.

- Right.

- Editors isn't all bad.

Every, all writing can can use editing.

At least that's what I used to tell them.

- [Cathy] Yeah, yeah.

- People that I was, that I was working with.

- And I write with a writing group in Cody too, and not, most of them aren't horse people.

So, when I would bring a scene to them, they would ask for a lot of clarification, which was good.

Perfect.

- When I was writing a lot more than I do now, for a newspaper job, I often had sort of the generic imagined audience in mind.

Who do I think is gonna read this?

Who do I want to read this thing, and get, what I'm trying to get at is, who- - Yeah, that's a good point.

- Who's that for you?

- So, you know, it's harder to market middle grade books, because the gatekeepers are parents and grandparents.

Very often the kids don't buy the books themselves.

I mean, did you, as a middle grader?

You might've gone to the library, and you know, checked out, "What did we read back then?

Uh, Gary Paulson?

(Cathy laughs) You know.

- Hatchet.

- Hatchet, right, of course.

But, so this one had to be marketed both to kids, and to adults.

This one, kids are buying more of their books, but I've found, the people that actually get in contact with me are usually parents, usually moms who said, "I would like my daughter to be able to read about a cowgirl who's dealing with anxiety."

- So, a parent contacts you and says, "I'd like to have this book."

- Yeah.

- You say, "Here's how you can get it."

- Right.

Either Amazon, they can go on Amazon.

- So you're on Amazon.

- Of course.

Or in Our town, they're in three different bookstores.

I also have a website, and if they order through my website, I'll personalize it.

If a parent says, you know, "My kid has a horse named so and so," I'll personalize it, and I also send 'em a leather bookmark.

Has my ice mountain icon at the top.

- [Steve] That sounds very nice.

- Because I want them to understand that, you know, things are gonna get hard.

- [Steve] Mm-hmm.

- But.

- And it also tells 'em a person wrote this book.

- Exactly.

Here you are.

- And they might not ever see you, but they, it's not just a manufactured product, it's, it was in your hands.

- Right.

- At this, at this point.

- For them.

- Yeah.

A nice, a nice touch.

A question that I often ask guests is, thinking back to your days traveling around with your family inspecting candy factories, did you ever think you'd end up here?

When did this different kind of life begin to appeal to you or occur to you?

- Well, I always loved horses.

Was one of those kids.

- Yes, you did.

- And my parents let me take riding lessons, and they bought me a pony.

And she was a kid eating pony named jingles.

And then so that I had horses growing up.

- [Steve] You did?

- I met my husband on a dude ranch, the North Fork, the flying- - What were you doing at the dude ranch?

Well this is kind of funny.

- [Steve] Okay.

- I was the bartender, although I was a college kid, and I had no idea how to make any drinks.

So people would ask me for a dry martini and I'd say, "What's in it?"

(Cathy laughs) You know.

"We can figure it out."

My husband was the Wrangler.

So we had five girls and a couple guys working at that dude ranch.

We had a wonderful time.

Think about being a sophomore in college, and being let loose on a dude ranch.

- Where was that?

- It was up the North Fork in Cody, flying on.

I went went to the rodeo every night.

We had a grand old time.

Then, I went back to college, and the next- - And where was that?

- Michigan State at that point, came back and worked for a camp in Sula Montana, which we took kids out on pack trips.

And then after that I spent some time with my husband, we finished up my degree, and we got married, and here we are.

- [Steve] Hmm.

- Yeah.

- Good story.

Good Wyoming story.

- Yes.

And now my kids of course are all horse people, and- - Yeah.

- Yeah, we all ride and pack in the mountains.

- How old are they and where do they live?

- Well now Alex and Ashley, they just moved to Haymarket, Virginia to train horses for the army, so to lay the veterans to rest.

And, but they used to live five miles away from us in Clark.

And then Rebecca, and her husband and their kids, they live on the Willwood and Powell.

- Yeah, - My grandson lives to rope.

- Your grandson?

- Yeah.

- What's his name?

- Stetson.

- And how old is he?

- He is 13.

And his sister Denali, she barrel races, she's eight.

- So, they read the books?

- They had.

Their mom read this one to 'em when they were camping.

We always take camping books.

- That's the book that had the kiss in it.

- That's a book that has just a chaste kiss, since Stetson was upset.

Yes.

- Yeah.

Two books with Miya.

- Mm-hmm.

Yes.

- Working on a third, working on a different project?

What's next for you as a writer?

- Well, my husband said, "Why don't you take a little break, because this is so all absorbing."

So I've just been writing a few short stories, a few poems, I've submitted some things to a couple magazines just for fun, and else, a lot of people who've read "Miya's Mountains" say, "Don't quit now."

You know, "Give us a third book."

She's only 15.

- Only 15.

- And so that, that might be in the works.

- Cathy, I'm very glad to have made your acquaintance.

And I say this sometimes, and I, when I mean it, I'm really glad to know you're out there.

- Well, thank you Steve.

- You're writing, you're reading and writing books, and thinking about how to write a book that would be, will be entertaining, and also do some good.

And seem to have found a receptive audience to those, not necessarily dueling ideas, but companion ideas.

- Yes, I think I have.

And I'm excited to keep writing.

- Good, glad to hear that.

And thanks for being with us on "Wyoming Chronicle."

- Thank you.

Thank you for inviting me.

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