♪ ♪ >> TERM LIMITS FOR TOP STATE OFFICIALS • ACCOUNTABILITY FOR THE INSURRECTION •.. AND WEARINESS WITH THAT CONTAGIOUS COVID.

WE'LL TALK ABOUT IT NEXT ON IVORY TOWER.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ WELCOME TO IVORY TOWER.

I'M BARBARA FOUGHT FROM SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY.

JOINING ME TONIGHT ON THE PANEL ARE ANIRBAN ACHARYA, FROM LEMOYNE COLLEGE; CHAD SPARBER, FROM COLGATE UNIVERSITY; AND BEN BAUGHMAN, FROM CAZENOVIA COLLEGE.

WE'VE TALKED MANY TIMES ON THE SHOW ABOUT HOW POWERFUL ANDREW CUOMO HAD GOTTEN AS GOVERNOR OVER THE ELEVEN YEARS HE SERVED.

NOW THAT HE'S OUT, OUR NEW GOVERNOR PROPOSES THAT THE TOP STATE OFFICIALS SHOULD HAVE TERM LIMITS- FOUR YEARS, ANOTHER FOUR YEARS AND THAT'S IT.

IT WOULD AFFECT THE GOVERNOR, LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR, ATTORNEY GENERAL AND COMPTROLLER.

NEW YORK IS ONE OF ONLY 14 STATES WITHOUT SOME FORM OF TERM LIMITS FOR STATE EXECUTIVES, SO SHOULD NEW YORKERS LIMIT THE >> WELL, MY GUT REACTION WOULD BE TO BE SAY YEAH, THIS WOULD BE AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO STOP CORRUPTION IN THE STATE.

MY GUT IS WRONG.

WHEN YOU TURN TO THE ECONOMIC EVIDENCE, WHAT YOU FIND IS IN THE GUBERNATORIAL TERM LIMITS ARE ASSOCIATED WITH INCREASED TAXES, INCREASED GOVERNMENT SPENDING, AND EVEN INCREASED INTEREST RATES ON MUNICIPAL BONDS.

THE REASON FOR THAT IS IF YOU THINK ABOUT INCUMBENTS, THEY HAVE AN INCENTIVE TO ENGAGE IN GOOD BEHAVIOR, DO THE THINGS THAT ELECTORS WANT.

THEY WANT TO WIN REELECTION.

WHEN YOU HAVE TERM LIMITS, IT STOPS THAT.

THEY TURN TOWARD THEIR OWN AGENDA.

>> MORE SO IN THE SECOND TERM?

>> YEAH, AND BY WAY OF COMPARISON, YOU NEVER SEE A GOVERNOR PARDON PEOPLE IN THEIR FIRST WEEK IN OFFICE, YOU KNOW.

IT'S ALWAYS LAST ACT THAT THEY DO BECAUSE IT'S SO UNPOPULAR.

THE IDEA IS THAT WHEN YOU HAVE THESE TERM LIMITS, YOU INCREASE THE FREQUENCY OF BAD INEFFICIENT FINAL TERMS AND, BY THE WAY, JUST ONE LITTLE JAB.

IT TURNS OUT ALL THESE NEGATIVE EFFECTS I'M TALKING ABOUT, THEY'RE WORSE IF THE GOVERNOR IS A DEMOCRAT.

THAT'S BASED ON SOME OLD RESEARCH.

BUT I THOUGHT IT WAS FUN TOE MENTION ANYWAY.

>> AND TO CHAD'S POINT, THE IMPORTANCE OF EXPERIENCE IS BEING UNDERMINED AS WELL.

WHEN YOU HAVE A PERFECTLY QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED GOVERNOR IN PLACE, THAT IS NOT HAVING TO RELY AND DEPEND ON THE PEOPLE AROUND THEM THAT MAY BE MORE INGRAINED IN AND HAVE MORE INVESTMENT IN A PARTICULAR WAY TO GO, THEN SOMEBODY NEW COMING IN, IT TAKES, AS WE ALL KNOW, GOING INTO A NEW JOB, A COUPLE YEARS EASILY TO EXCEL AT IT AND BE COMFORTABLE AND COMFORTABLE AND ETHICAL ABOUT IT.

SO I THINK IT LIMITS THAT AS WELL.

>> I AGREE.

IT REMIND ME OF OPTIMIZIZATION AND PERHAPS I WAS NOT AWARE OF THIS, BUT IN SCIENCE WE TALK ABOUT THE BIAS TOWARDS INCUMBENTS.

IT IS EASY FOR INCUMBENTS TO GET RE-ELECTED AND KEEP GETTING RE-ELECTED, SO AS A RESULT, I DO THINK FOR STATEWIDE ELECTIONS AT LEAST, THERE SHOULD BE SOME KIND OF TERM LIMIT IN ORDER TO OPTIMIZE THAT ASPECT OF CORRUPTION, VIS-A-VIS HIGHER MUNICIPAL BOND AND OTHER ECONOMIC FACTORS.

BUT I THINK THERE SHOULD NOT BE TERM LIMITS FOR LEGISLATORS PER SE BECAUSE LEGISLATORS HAVE AN INSTITUTIONAL MEMORY THAT GO ON FOR A LONG TIME AND MANY LEGISLATORS, YOU KNOW, SUFFER DEFEAT FROM NEW INCUMBENTS IN U.S. CONGRESS ALSO.

THAT WOULD BE MY TWO CENTS.

>> IT'S FUNNY THAT YOU BRING UP THE LEGISLATURE THING.

I'M SAYING THAT TERM LIMITS ARE BAD, DESPITE THE FACT THAT 80% OF AMERICANS THINK THEY'RE A GOOD IDEA.

BUT THE LEGISLATIVE THING IS INTERESTING BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT MORE ECONOMIC EVIDENCE ON THAT QUESTION OF SOME OF IT DEVELOPED BY A COUPLE OF RESEARCHERS OUT AT UNIVERSITY OF ROCHESTER ACTUALLY.

BUT AGAIN, THESE TERM LIMITS THEY'RE ASSOCIATED WITH A LOT OF TERRIBLE OUTCOMES AND SO, FOR EXAMPLE, THEY DON'T CHANGE THE DEMOGRAPHIC CHARACTERISTICS OR IDEOLOGICAL DISPOSITIONS OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ELECTED.

THEY TAKE AWAY POWER FROM VOTERS IN THE SENSE THAT PEOPLE CAN'T VOTE FOR THE CANDIDATES THAT THEY MIGHT WANT.

IT DOESN'T DO MUCH TO REDUCE CORRUPTION BECAUSE INSTEAD OF TURNING TO LIKE SENIOR COLLEAGUES FOR MENTORSHIP, THEY TURN TO STAFFERS AND LOBBYISTS AND SO FORTH.

IT WEAKENS THE LEGISLATIVE BRANCH, SHIFTS POWER TO THE EXECUTIVE AND ON AND ON AND ON.

SO YEAH, I FEEL A LITTLE BIT WEIRD SAYING 80% OF THE PEOPLE, YOU ARE WRONG.

THESE TERM LIMITS ARE A BAD IDEA.

>> WE DO HAVE TERM LIMITS.

WE CALL THEM ELECTIONS.

AND TO CHAD'S POINT, THE FACT THAT YOU ARE TAKING A CHOICE AWAY, SOMEBODY THAT HAS PROVEN THEMSELVES, IN THE OFFICE THAT THEY'RE IN OR, YOU KNOW, LEGISLATING, I THINK THAT WE ARE TAKING THOSE CHOICES AWAY FROM VOTERS.

>> BUT BEN, LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED WITH CUOMO OR SOME OF THE SENIOR PEOPLE IN THE LEGISLATURE; JUST AMASSING SO MUCH POWER, I THINK OF THE OLD DAYS OF SHELLY SILVER AND NOTHING COULD HAPPEN UNLESS HE SAID YES IN THE LEGISLATURE.

>> BUT I DON'T SEE IT AS A TIME THING.

I DON'T THINK IT'S A MATTER OF HOW LONG YOU ARE IN A POSITION.

IN FACT, YOU SHOULD GET BETTER AT UNDERSTANDING WHERE YOU CAN FALL AND WHERE YOU CAN MAKE MISTAKES AND HAVE THE PROPER PEOPLE AROUND YOU RATHER THAN JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE IN A POSITION FOR A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF TIME ALL OF A SUDDEN NOW YOU ARE GOING TO BE CORRUPT.

I DON'T THINK THE TWO GO HAND IN HAND.

>> I WOULD LIKE TO SAY ENTREMPED POWER CREATES BARRIER TO INCREEING.

SHOULD WE THEN GET RID OF TERM LIMITS FOR THE U.S. PRESIDENT?

OR IS IT ONLY FOR STATES THAT WE SHOULDN'T DO IT?

>> WELL, WE CAN'T BECAUSE IT'S AN AMENDMENT.

>> RIGHT.

>> WE CAN PASS ANOTHER AMENDMENT.

IT'S A CONSTITUTION THAT CAN BE CHANGED, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

>> WELL SPEAKING OF AMENDMENTS IN ORDER TO DO THIS IN NEW YORK, I BELIEVE WE HAVE TO HAVE A CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT WHICH WOULD MEAN THE VOTERS, IF I UNDERSTAND THE PROCESS RIGHT, WOULD HAVE TO DO IT.

CHAD, IS THERE LIKELIHOOD IN NEW YORK THAT THE VOTERS WOULD GO TO TERM LIMITS?

>> 80% IS THE SUPPORT RATE FOR TERM LIMITS SO I WOULD IMAGINE IT WOULD GET PASSED BUT I'M ALSO THINKING ABOUT THIS CORRUPTION ISSUE IN GENERAL, RIGHT?

WHEN I FIRST GOT THIS QUESTION, I THOUGHT WELL I'M IMMEDIATELY GOING TO GO TO THE EVIDENCE ON HOW CORRUPT OUR STATE ARE THAT DON'T HAVE GUBERNATORIAL LIMITS, THE 14 STATES MENTIONED.

IT INCLUDES NEW YORK, ILLINOIS, STATES I CONSIDER TO BE FAIRLY CORRUPT.

BUT IT ALSO INCLUDES MINNESOTA AND WASHINGTON AND TEXAS AND UTAH AND A COLLECTION OF STATES THAT I DON'T THINK IS INHERENTLY OR CORRUPT OR JUST BY REPUTATION, NOT TOO CORRUPT.

SO I DON'T THINK THAT'S NECESSARILY THE RIGHT SOLUTION TO OUR PROBLEMS ON THIS FRONT.

>> TRANSPARENCY IS.

HUMANS ARE FALLIBLE.

>> ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT GOVERNOR HOCHUL PROPOSED IS NO EXTRA INCOME FOR THESE STATE OFFICIALS.

IS THAT A GOOD IDEA, BEN?

>> I DO.

I THINK ANYTHING YOU CAN DO TO MITIGATE THE CHANCE OF GOING DOWN A PATH OR-- THE PROBLEM WITH CORRUPTION, IS IT TENDS TO BE INCREMENTAL.

THEY'LL DO SOMETHING THAT IS JUST A LITTLE BIT MORE SHADY, A LITTLE MORE SHADY AND THEY JUST NEED MORE TRANSPARENCY.

THEY NEED TO HAVE THE MORAL COMPASS AND KEEP CHECKING IN WITH THAT.

AND THAT'S WHAT IT IS REALLY ABOUT.

WE KNOW HUMANS ARE FALLIBLE.

>> SPEAKING OF HUMANS BEING FALLIBLE, THIS WEEK... LOTS OF NEWS THIS WEEK MARKING ONE YEAR SINCE THE INSURRECTION AT THE CAPITOL.

WE'VE TALKED A LOT ABOUT THE POLITICAL ANGLES TO THAT.

SO I'D LIKE TO TAKE A DIFFERENT TACK TONIGHT AND TALK ABOUT JUSTICE AND ACCOUNTABILITY OF THOSE INVOLVED.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL GAVE US AN UPDATE THIS WEEK ON WHAT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT HAS DONE: 725 PERSONS ARRESTED AND CHARGED, 325 PERSONS CHARGED WITH FELONIES; 20 PLED GUILTY, 40 CHARGED WITH CONSPIRACY TO OBSTRUCT A CONGRESSIONAL PROCEEDING OR OBSTRUCT LAW ENFORCEMENT; 17 SET FOR TRIAL.

I LEARNED AS A REPORTER THAT PROSECUTIONS TAKE TIME.

THEY ARE METICULOUS ABOUT BUILDING THEIR CASES.

YOU WOULD KNOW THIS FROM YOUR POLICE WORK.

SO WHAT'S YOUR ASSESSMENT OF HOW THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT IS HANDLING THIS?

>> I THINK THEY HAVE BEEN DOING A GREAT JOB.

WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY THAT IS A DRIVE-THRU SOCIETY MENTALITY.

WE GO ON AMAZON AND WE GET SOMETHING IN THREE DAYS.

THAT'S NOT HOW OUR JUSTICE DEPARTMENT WORKS.

THAT'S NOT HOW JUSTICE WORKS IN THE UNITED STATES.

IT TAKES TIME.

TYPICALLY IT TAKES A YEAR FOR A NORMAL CASE TO GO IT TO TRIAL EVEN THOUGH THINGS ARE SET UP FOR SPEEDY TRIAL.

SO YOU HAVE THAT PART.

SO IT COMES DOWN TO THE DUE PROCESS.

IT'S ESSENTIAL TO OUR JUSTICE SYSTEM HERE IN THE UNITED STATES AND IT'S APPLIES BOTH AT THE CIVIL AND CRIMINAL LEVEL.

SO THE PROBLEM HERE IS THE REQUIREMENT OF THE LEGAL MATTERS TO BE RESOLVED ACCORDING TO ESTABLISHED RULES AND PRINCIPLES AND THAT'S THE DUE PROCESS COMPONENT WE ARE SEEING PLAY OUT.

>> WILL THE PUBLIC BE WILLING TO WAIT AS LONG AS IT IS GOING TO TAKE FOR THESE 300 AND SOME... >> UNFORTUNATELY I DON'T THINK THE PUBLIC HAS A CHOICE.

THAT IS HOW OUR SYSTEM HAS BEEN SET UP AND THAT'S-- WE CONTINUE TO VOTE FOR PEOPLE TO GO AND LEGISLATE LAWS THAT HAVE DUE PROCESS AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE AT.

>> CHAD, I'M THINKING THAT THOSE WHO ARE STILL SUPPORTING THE FORMER PRESIDENT WILL JUST USE THIS AS ANOTHER INDICATION THAT THERE IS A VENDETTA AOUT AGAINST HIM.

>> I SHARE THOSE FEARS, WHEN I'M READING THE LITERATURE ON HOLDING THE PRESIDENT ACCOUNTABLE FOR THIS.

I THINK HE IS MORALLY CULPABLE IN THE INSURRECTION BUT LEGALLY IS ANOTHER MATTER.

AND I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A MUCH HARDER THING TO PROVE.

AND IN TERMS OF HOPE, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, I SORT OF-- I'M UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THE IDEA THAT A SITTING PRESIDENT IS GOING TO GO AFTER THE FORMER PRESIDENT.

I MEAN PRECEDENT THAT SETS IN TERMS OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY IS WORRISOME TO ME.

SO AGAIN IN TERMS OF HOPE, I'M SORT OF HOPING IT'S NEW YORK STATE, THE FRAUD CASES THAT ARE GOING TO GET TRUMP AS OPPOSED TO THIS PARTICULAR.

>> BUT WHAT THIS HIM SAYING NOBODY IS ABOVE THE LAW.

WE WANT TO GO UP THE CHAIN.

>> HE IS RIGHT TO DO THAT.

SO WHEN I SPEAK ABOUT HOPE AND WHAT I HOPE, YES, I HOPE TRUMP BEARS CONSEQUENCES.

BUT AT THE SAME TIME, LIKE IF THEY DON'T FIND THAT LINK BETWEEN TRUMP AND THE LEGAL LINK HERE.

I MEAN WE CAN'T GO AFTER HIM FOR THAT.

>> AND I DO THINK IT'S IMPORTANT FOR THEM TO KNOW WHAT DID TRUMP KNOW BEFORE JANUARY 6.

WHAT DID HE SAY?

WHAT DID HE DO OR NOT DO IN PARTICULAR, LEADING UP TO WHAT HAPPENED TO THE ON THE DAY OF THE 6th AND THEN WHAT HAPPENED IS IT TRUE HE SAT AND WATCHED FOR 90 MINUTES AND DID NOT SEND ANY SUPPORT TO THE HEART OF OUR DEMOCRACY?

SO I DO THINK THAT THOSE QUESTIONS HAVE TO BE ANSWERED.

>> YEAH, SO I AGREE WITH YOU THAT, YOU KNOW, FAST TRACK JUSTICE IS NOT JUSTICE BUT THERE NEEDS TO BE DUE PROCESS.

I WANT TO POINT OUT THE CONTENT OF THE DUE PROCESS.

A FORMER FBI AGENT WHO WORKS FOR THE BRENDAN CENTER FOR JUSTICE SAID THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT FEDERAL PROSECUTORS HAVE TREATED WHITE SUPREMACIST AND FAR RIGHT VIOLENCE FAR MORE LENIENTLY THAN THEY TREAT NON-VIOLENT NON-WHITE PROTESTORS AND NON-WHITE TERRORISTS.

THAT BOTHERS ME BECAUSE IF YOU SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING HERE IS DOMESTIC TERRORISM THERE.

WERE CASES WHERE YOU KNOW, THESE PEOPLE WHO WERE PROSECUTED, THEY CRIED BOO HOO IN COURT SAYING TRUMP TOLD THEM TO DO THIS IN THEIR DREAMS OR WHAT NOT.

AND THEN LATER ON WENT INTO FOX NEWS DOWNPLAYING THE ENTIRE INCIDENT; RIGHT?

SO I WANT TO SEE THE REPUBLICAN PARTY OR PEOPLE WHO LOVE AMERICAN DEMOCRACY AND THE RULE OF LAW AND THE CONSTITUTION KIND OF STAND UP AND SAY THAT THIS IS A TERRIBLE THING AND THESE PEOPLE ARE ACTUALLY DOMESTIC TERRORISTS: AND I'M NOT SEEING THAT KIND OF A PROSECUTION AND PEOPLE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT VARIOUS FORUMS.

>> PLEASE GO AHEAD.

>> I GOT EXCITED ABOUT WHAT YOU WERE SAYING BECAUSE I TOTALLY AGREE.

WHEN I THINK ABOUT THE ACCOUNTABILITY ISSUE, YOU KNOW, I THINK ABOUT HOW DONALD TRUMP, JR. AND HIS BILLIONAIRE PETER TEAL ARE HOLDING CHENEY ACCOUNTABLE FOR HER PARTICIPATION IN THIS COMMITTEE, BUT RAISING MONEY FOR HER PRIMARY CHALLENGER.

AND THE SAD REALITY IS THAT THEN THERE IS NO INCENTIVE FOR REPUBLICANS TO PLAY ALONG UNLESS WE AS VOTERS ACTUALLY INCENTIVIZE THEM TO DO-- TO HAVE INTEGRITY.

AND SO ON THAT, LET'S REMIND OURSELVES ABOUT JOHN KATKO AND HOW HE WAS ONE OF 10 REPUBLICANS WHO SUPPORTED THE SECOND IMPEACHMENT.

HE WAS ONE OF THE ARCHITECTS OF THE BIPARTISAN COMMISSION THAT UNFORTUNATELY DIED IN THE SENATE.

AND IF THAT SORT OF THING IS IMPORTANT TO YOU AND IF YOU ARE A DEMOCRAT, I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO CROSS PARTY LINES TO VOTE FOR HIM IN NOVEMBER AND MAYBE EVEN CHANGE POLITICAL AFFILIATION TO VOTE IN THE PRIMARY IF HE ENDS UP HAVING A PRIMARY CHALLENGE BECAUSE WITHOUT PEOPLE LIKE THAT IN GOVERNMENT, IT FURTHER WEAKENS OUR DEMOCRACY.

>> I WANT TO ADD A LITTLE BIT ON THE BROADER ASPECT OF SOCIOLOGICAL RESEARCH I WAS FOLLOWING.

ABOUT FIVE OR SIX YEARS AGO THIS LOVELY RESEARCH CAME OUT FROM GERMANY WHERE THE RESEARCHERS FOLLOWED ABOUT 800 ELECTIONS IN 20 DEVELOPED COUNTRIES AND SHOWED THAT AFTER A FINANCIAL CRISIS, THERE IS A HUGE UPSURGE OF SUPPORT FOR RIGHT WING POLICIES AND VOTES AND A LOT OF BLAMING MINORITIES AND SO SFORTSDZ AND ON AVERAGE RIGHT WING PARTIES INCREASE THEIR VOTE BY 30%.

THAT HAS NOT BEEN THE CASE IN THE UNITED STATES.

THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN LOSING POPULAR VOTES FOR A LONG TIME.

IN THAT CONTEXT OF THE STUDY I JUST WANT TO SAY THAT DEMOCRATS NEED TO BE A LITTLE BIT FORWARD LOOKING.

I LIKE THERE IS SOMEBODY NEEDS TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE.

THIS COMMITTEE IS GOING THROUGH ITS WORK, DOING THE SUBPOENAS BUT WHAT ABOUT THE VOTING RIGHTS BILL?

WHAT ABOUT OTHER LEGISLATION THAT, YOU KNOW, THE AMERICAN PEOPLE HAD GIVEN THE THREE CHAMBERS, RIGHT?

LIKE TO THE PRESIDENT.

BUT WE ARE NOT SEEING MUCH OF.

IF THERE IS BETTER LEGISLATION WHICH HELPS THE WORKING POOR AND SO ON, WE WOULD SEE A DIFFERENT, YOU KNOW, CHANGE AT A SOCIOLOGICAL LEVEL.

>> LET ME GET IN THE OTHER ACCOUNTABILITY FACTOR HERE, THE HOUSE COMMITTEE LOOKING AT WHAT HAPPENED AND BEN YOU SAID WE NEED TO KNOW WHO IS DOING WHAT, WHEN AND WHERE.

WHAT IS THE SENSE OF THIS HOW COMMITTEE AND HOW IT'S PROCEEDING AND THE REPORT HOW IT WILL BE PERCEIVED?

>> IT'S A LOT MORE OBJECTIVE THAN PEOPLE BELIEVE IT IS GOING TO BE.

THEY HAVE INTERVIEWED HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE AND THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT ARE BRINGING SIGNATURE SIGNIFICANT INFORMATION FORWARD THAT CAN'T BE SHARED AT THIS POINT.

BUT I DO WANT TO SAY THAT THE PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE IS THAT GOING BACK TO THE POINT THAT WAS JUST BEING MADE IS THIS DIVISION VERSUS DIVERSITY.

DIVERSITY IS GOOD.

DIVISION IS BAD.

AND WE ARE NOD CROSSING THE AISLE-- WE ARE NOT CROSSING THE AISLE.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

IT IS SO POLARIZED RIGHT NOW THAT THEY'RE NOT WILLING TO NEGOTIATE IN A LOT OF PLACES EXCEPT FOR A FEW EXCEPTIONS THAT CHAD POINTED OUT.

>> WELL LET ME MOVE US TO OUR THIRD TOPIC, THE OTHER THING IN THE NEWS THIS WEEK.

COVID, IT IS STILL HERE AND IT'S SPREADING FASTER THAN A SHORT-DISTANCE RUNNER.

IN THE NEXT FEW WEEKS, WE'RE EXPECTED TO BREAK RECORDS IN THE NUMBER OF CASES.

I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU, BUT I JUST WANT IT TO BE OVER.

IT'S TAXING MY AND OUR RESILIENCE.

DO WE JUST HUNKER DOWN FOR THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS AND GET THROUGH THIS?

HOW DO WE COPE?

>> IT'S A VERY DIFFICULT QUESTION.

WE WERE CELEBRATING THE HOT VACCS SUMMER AND EVERYBODY WAS HAPPY AND NOW WE ARE IN THE NO VACCS WINTER SO I DON'T KNOW.

OMICRON IS SCARY IN THE SENSE IT IS HIGHLY CONTAGIOUS BUT THE RESULTS ARE SHOWING THAT MAYBE IT'S NOT THAT DEADLY.

IT'S MORE MILD ERIN EFFECTS, ESPECIALLY FOR-- MILDER INFECTION ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE WHO HAVE HAD VACCINATIONS.

SCHOOLS AND COLLEGES ARE ASKING EVERYBODY TO GET BOOSTERRED.

IT'S MANDATORY IN LeMOYNE AND IN OTHER, I THINK A FEW OTHERS.

SO YES, WE SHOULD HUNKER DOWN A LITTLE BIT, ESPECIALLY YOU KNOW, FOR A PERSON WHO HAS 27 MONTH-OLD CHILD WHO CAN'T GET VACCINATED, I WORRY ABOUT CHILDREN AND THERE HAVE BEEN STORIES OF CHILDREN GETTING ADMITTED TO ICU BUT I ALSO WORRY ABOUT THE MENTAL HEALTH.

PEOPLE THINK IS ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

THERE NEEDS TO BE A LONGER TERM STRATEGY WHERE WE MIGHT NEED TO ACTUALLY HAVE TO LIVE WITH THIS VIRUS IN SOME WAY OR ANOTHER.

BUT YOU KNOW, VACCINE, AGAIN, MY THING WOULD BE GET VACCED TO THE MAX.

>> HOW DO WE COPE?

GET VACCED, GET BOOSTED AND GET ON WITH LIFE.

I MENTIONED THAT I GUESS THE LAST WEEK, END OF THE YEAR SHOW, THAT HAS SOME SORT OF WEIRD OPTIMISM WHEN IT COMES TO OMICRON BECAUSE AS YOU SAY, THE SYMPTOMS ARE FAIRLY MILD AND IT'S STILL THE CASE IF YOU ARE VACCINATED, THE RISK OF HOSPITALIZATION AND DEATH ARE FAIRLY LOW.

THE NEW EVIDENCE I THINK THAT HAS COME OUT IN THE LAST WEEK IS YOU HAVE ISRAEL'S FORMER CORONAVIRUS CZAR HAS COME OUT AND SAID THAT OMICRON IS A WAY OF GETTING THE HERD IMMUNITY WITHOUT OVERWHELMING THE HOSPITALS.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE PUSHED BACK ON THAT A LITTLE BIT BUT THERE IS SOME EARLY EVIDENCE IN LAB WORK FROM SOUTH AFRICA THAT SUGGESTS THAT EXPOSURE TO OMICRON REDUCES YOUR CHANCE OF GETTING DELTA AND SO THAT'S A POSITIVE THING.

WHERE MY FEARS LIE ARE THAT NUMBER ONE I'M GOING TO HAVE TO GET BOOSTED MORE THAN I WANT TO AND I DON'T REACT WELL TO IT.

AND THEN THE SECOND IS AT THAT TIME-- THE SECOND IS THAT PEOPLE AND THEIR FEAR WILL BE DRIVEN TO PURSUE KIND OF TERRIBLE POLICIES LIKE WHAT WE SAW IN CHICAGO, THE SHUTTING DOWN OF THE SCHOOLS LAST WEEK.

THAT'S JUST NONSENSE, WHICH IS WHY I SAY GET ON WITH LIFE.

>> BEN, HOW ARE YOU COPING OR WHAT TIPS DO YOU HAVE FOR ME OR OTHERS TO COPE?

>> YEAH, WELL, I THINK YOU HAVE TO ADAPT.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE BEEN LIVING WITH FOR A FEW YEARS AND WE KEEP WAITING FOR TOMORROW BECAUSE TOMORROW IS GOING TO BE BETTER.

WHAT IF IT'S NOT?

AND I THINK THE FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN REALLY BOGS PEOPLE DOWN.

THAT IS THE PRIMAL FEAR OF HUMANS, IS THE FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN AND THE GOOD NEWS IS ALL DATA IS POINTING TO THIS CURRENT VARIANT AND FUTURE VARIANTS TO BE YES, MORE CONTAGIOUS, BUT LESS HARMFUL AS FAR AS PUTTING PEOPLE IN THE HOSPITAL AND DEADLY.

>> YEAH, SO, YOU KNOW, THERE WERE SOME SIGNISTS WORKING WITH BIDEN'S TRANSITION TEAM AND RECENTLY CAME OUT WITH AN ARTICLE IN THE JOURNAL OF AMERICAN MEDICAL ASSOCIATION AND THE ADMINISTRATION DIDN'T LIKE THIS ARTICLE.

THEY DIDN'T WANT TO TALK ABOUT IT ANYWAY, SO YOU KNOW, THERE WAS LIKE WHAT IS A NEW NORMAL?

DEFINING NEW NORMAL IS WHERE THE COMBINED RISK OF ALL VIRAL RESPIRATORY ILLNESSES, INCLUDING COVID-19, RIGHT, DOES NOT EXCEED THE RISK DURING THE PRE-COVID YEARS.

SO THAT'S WHEN WE CAN CALL IT A NEW NORMAL BECAUSE THE RISK WILL ALWAYS BE THERE.

IT SHOULD NOT EXCEED THE RISK WHAT HAVE WE HAD BEFORE COVID-19 AND FOR THAT THEY'RE VERY SPECIFIC.

INVESTMENT IN VARIANT SPECIFIC VACCINES, MANDATES.

THEY'RE VERY MUCH IN FAVOR OF THESE MANDATES.

AND NATIONALIZED ELECTRONIC DATABASE CALLED A SMART DATABASE WHICH PROTECTS THE PRIVACY OF PEOPLE BECAUSE NOW THE INFORMATION IS VERY IMPORTANT WHO IS GETTING VACCED AND SO ON AND IT'S A PATCHWORK ACROSS STATES SO A CENTRALIZED DATABASE NEEDS TO BE THERE ACCORDING TO THE SCIENTISTS.

AND, YOU KNOW, ON MANDATES WE HAVE MANDATES EVERYWHERE.

WHERE I ALIE TO COME TO THE U.S. TO STUDY, THERE WERE VACCINE REQUIREMENTS I HAD TO MEET WITHOUT WHICH I COULDN'T GET ON WITH MY GRADUATE DEGREE.

SO I AM NOT AGAINST MANDATE ISSUE AT ALL BECAUSE ULTIMATELY FOR THE SAFETY OF OTHER PEOPLE, THE SAME WAY WE HAVE TO GET A DRIVER'S LICENSE TO DRIVE A CAR.

IT'S KIND OF THE SAME THING FOR ME.

>> AND LET ME GO BACK TO YOUR QUESTION.

TELEHEALTH IS ANOTHER AREA THAT I HAVE THAT HAS GIVEN ME MORE HOPE AS WELL THAT ADVANCEMENTS IN TELEHEALTH WHERE PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO HAVE OR GET THERAPY TO GET MEDICINE THROUGH THEIR COMPUTER TALKING TO THEIR DOCTOR, IS OPENING UP THE DOORS FOR PEOPLE THAT DON'T LIVE IN MAJOR CITIES THAT HAVE ALL THE PSYCHIATRISTS, RIGHT?

AND PEOPLE THAT LIVE OUT IN THE COUNTRY TYPICALLY WOULD HAVE TO DRIECH 30 OR 40 MINUTES INTO A CITY THAT HAVE THE RESOURCES.

THAT GIVES ME HOPE.

>> I'VE GOT TO CUT YOU OFF, CHAD BECAUSE IT'S TIME TO OPEN UP THE GRADEBOOK AND ANIRBAN, WHAT IS YOUR F FOR THE WEEK?

>> TO MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN FOR CONTINUING TO PEDDLE LIES ABOUT COVID-19 AND VACCINES.

SHE WAS BLOCK INNED TWITTER AS TWITTER SUSPENDED HER ACCOUNT INDEFINITELY.

>> AND CHAD, YOUR F. >> TO MICHIGAN RESIDENTS WHO RECEIVED 8.5 BILLION IN FRAUDULENT UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE CLAIMS DURING THE COVID PANDEMIC.

THAT IS ON TOP OF AN ADDITIONAL $43.7 BILLION IN FRAWLTD CLAIMS THAT THE STATE CAUGHT AND REJECTED.

>> BEN.

>> ANTONIO BROWN MELT DOWN IS WHERE MY F IS GOING.

AS A STEELERS FAN, ANTONIO BROWN FAN, IT WAS SAD TO SEE THE MELT DOWN THAT HAPPENED IN THE THIRD QUARTER OF THE TAMPA BAY VERSUS JETS GAME.

HE HAD A COMPLETE LACK OF RESPECT FOR COACHES DECISIONS, SPORTSMAN SHIP WHILE THE GAME WAS GOING ON AND THE TEAM WAS TRYING TO COME BACK FROM BEING DOWN, HE RUNS ON TO THE FIELD, DOES JUMPING JACKS IN THE END ZONE AND RUNS OUT OF THE STADIUM.

>> SHOULD ANY OTHER TEAM PICK HIM UP?

>> NO.

>> THAT WAS A QUICK ANSWER.

LET'S TURN TO OUR As.

SOMEBODY HAS DONE SOMETHING WELL IN THE PAST WEEK ANIRBAN, TELL US ABOUT IT.

>> EL WITH, MY A GOES TO THE SCIENTISTS AND ENGINEERS WHO HELPED DEVELOPED NEW WEBB TELESCOPE THAT WILL BE ABLE TO ANALYZE RADIATION FROM THE TIME OF THE BIG BANG, 36 BILLION YEARS OF OLD LIGHT THE TELESCOPE WILL BE ABLE TO SEE AND OPEN UP NEW HORIZONS FOR SCIENTIFIC EXPLORATION.

>> SO INTERESTING TO SEE WHAT WILL COME OF THAT.

CHAD.

HOW ABOUT YOUR A?

>> MY A COMPLEMENTS ANIRBAN'S F. MY A GOES TO TEXAS REPUBLICAN FORMER NAVY SEAL DAN CRENSHAW FOR CALLING MARJORIE TAYLOR GREEN AN IDIOT FOR OPPOSING FEDERAL FUNDING TO AID HOSPITALS BATTLING OMICRON.

YES, I THINK THAT'S CHILDISH NAME CALLING BUT IT'S REFRESHING TO SEE I BIT OF PUBLIC WITHIN PARTY CRITICISM WHEN IT'S JUSTIFIED.

>> AND BEN, YOUR A?

>> MY A GOES TO A SECRET DONOR WHO SENT $180,000 IN CASH TO THE CITY COLLEGE OF NEW YORK.

NOW 15 LONG WITH IT WAS A NOTE THAT LONG AGO THAT DONOR HAD GRADUATED WITH DEGREES IN PHYSICS, MATHEMATICS, WENT ON TO GET A DOUBLE Ph.D.

IN PHYSICS AND ASTRONOMY.

AND THE REASON FOR THIS IN THE NOTE WAS THE EXCELLENT EDUCATION THAT THEY WERE AFFORDED AND THAT THEY HAD A LONG PRODUCTIVEY MEN'SLY REWARDING SCIENTIFIC CAREER.

>> SO THIS WAS-- >> SECRET DONOR WHO SENT A BOXFUL OF HARD CASH THAT SAT IN THE MAIL ROOM AT THE COLLEGE THERE FOR A BIT AND THEN THEY NEEDED TO DO AN INVESTIGATION TO MAKE SURE IT WASN'T BAD MONEY, RIGHT?

THAT IT WASN'T MONEY THAT WAS EARNED THROUGH ILLICIT GOODS.

AND AFTER A THREE-MONTH INVESTIGATION BY AUTHORITIES, DUE PROCESS, THE MONEY WAS TURNED BACK OVER TO THE COLLEGE.

>> WE SHOULD ALL HOPE THAT SOME OF OUR STUDENTS WOULD DO THAT IN THE FUTURE.

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