>> The Department of Homeland Security's launch of Operation Midway Blitz this week is expected to ramp up the deployment of ICE agents to the city.

The Trump administration says the operation is designed to target, quote, criminal illegal aliens who they say have flocked to Chicago because of its sanctuary city status.

>> Chicago is a very dangerous place and we have a governor that doesn't care about crime.

My guest.

We could Chicago very quickly.

When you look at what happened DC in short period of time, honestly, it's amazing over a period 12 Otherwise on the 12th Day, we had the crime.

about jobs.

>> But others worry that innocent immigrants and even citizens could be caught up in the immigration operation.

Joining us now with more is Professor Robert Pape, political science professor at the University of Chicago, terrorism Specialist and the founding director of the Chicago Project on Security and threats.

Thanks for being here again.

Professor Pape, of course.

we should clarify, you know, the president is talking about crime and violence, but he's also talking about immigration.

And these are these are 2 different things except in the instances when immigration and crime and violence collide can come back to that later.

How is what's happening or what is expected to happen here in Chicago?

Different from what we've already seen in LA and DC.

Well, let's first start with this.

President Trump and the Trump administration is sending Chicago in much of the country.

>> Down a dark road.

I've lived in Chicago for 25 years.

I have never met anyone in Chicago who likes the crime.

I've never met this defender of crime.

However, people in Chicago and we know this from our surveys of Chicago.

People in Chicago do not like the idea of a military occupation and they don't like the idea of a police state even more.

I have been studying political violence for 30 years and my specialty within that area is military occupations by democracies.

Think British troops going to Northern Ireland August 1916, I think American going to Baghdad to suppress terrorism in 2003.

These military occupations by democracies often start out with a very legitimate purpose.

And however, over time that purpose tends to lead to constraining political liberties and leading to more violence, then they actually started with.

So you mentioned your research that you've done for a very long time.

You took a survey of 1100 Chicagoans over the summer June July of this year.

And you found that 60% of Chicagoans survey did not approve of the way President Trump.

>> Is handling immigration enforcement, especially deportation.

28% said that they would protest even if violence.

30% agreed that immigrants targeted by Trump are justified in using force to defend themselves.

And 37% agreed that the use of force is justified to remove Donald Trump from the presidency.

Was this surprising to you and what does that say about what to expect of the reactions of Chicagoans if National Guard is on the streets of Chicago's the player reason we did.

This survey was because of LA.

>> And seeing Elway and seeing the rhetoric around are ready in L a when Christie Noem said that the goal here was to reverberate other cities, not just Elway from the failed Democratic leadership that made it clear that we had to worry about Chicago.

So that's why we did the survey.

And this is hard data.

This isn't just a random phone dialing.

This is not 3 people on the street of an interview.

This is with Newark.

That's one of the most respected polling agencies on the planet Representative survey of the City of Chicago of its 2.7 million residents.

So with those numbers you read, this is hard information and notice.

This not the picture of the city that is asking for military should be opposite.

How concerned should we be that violence could erupt between?

>> Protesters, demonstrators and National Guard National Guard people.

There are numerous flash points.

This isn't just a case where there's flash points related to the protesters.

That's absolutely true.

The big picture, though, is that in the early stages of these military deployments by democracies and cities for de-escalating the violence a lot of times there's a honeymoon period.

>> So it may come as a surprise with the British going in August 1969.

Their goal was to de-escalate violence in Northern Ireland 4 months later.

However, that's when the provisional I R a was formed to use violence to kick those British troops out.

Basically what we see is this early stage of a honeymoon period can be deceptive.

You can think, oh, it's going well.

Let's expand the mission.

Well, what's the mission in Chicago?

We have a couple of missions identified by President Trump and DHS.

Number deportation of illegal immigrants, undocumented immigrants from the city of Chicago at 150,000 people.

And you're right that that could take a very long time.

Could months.

Many thousands of troops.

We're not even seeing yet the beginning of these operation Jet.

But if you were seriously talk about deporting 150,008% of the city, this would probably take a year.

This would probably involve 10's of thousands of troops and to be clear, troops cannot deport people, but they can support ICE agents in their efforts.

That's exactly right.

It would be a cut would a combined set of operations where you would be focusing on grocery stores.

You would be focusing on schools and you would be doing this in many different parts of the city.

You would focus on some areas over others.

But just today we have a nice helicopter circling up near Evanston and the residents of means 10 are suddenly very, very nervous.

And the reason is because there may well undocumented immigrants Evanston.

And so what you are seeing is the possibility even before these operations have begun to produce.

Fear is already there.

We're talking about major missions and I didn't even mention the crime.

nice to live in Oak Park.

I know about Austin very, very well.

So if you're going to go into Austin to actually permanently reduce crime, you're going need to disarm gangs, disarm people.

And this is going take a lot of time and be very dangerous.

And that is, of course, you know, if if the National Guard can be impactful in reducing that kind of community crime, that so many.

>> Chicagoans experience.

But here's governor Presser Pritzker again from earlier today talking about the deployment of ICE agents in particular earlier.

>> They have terrible plans for the communities of Illinois were frankly standing up and speaking out and ready to take them to court and do everything that we can to protect the people who live here from what Donald Trump is trying to do, which is to disrupt the country.

Not because he's going after criminals, but because she has a nefarious plan, frankly, to bring military into cities so that ultimately in the 2026 election people be normalized to the idea militarization during the next election so that he could affect the outcome of that election.

>> really about fighting crime of something else.

Well, we just saw the courts yesterday with the Supreme Court make a very important ruling here in favor of helping Trump with deportations.

And that ruling was really quite stunning because the ruling 6 to 3 and the Supreme Court is that ICE agents are now to essentially racial profile.

So it is now the case that if you have the wrong skin color, if you have the wrong accident, if you work in the wrong place with no other information whatsoever.

You can be legally detained.

So says the Supreme Court of the United States, which all the federal courts, all the state courts, are now going to have to abide by.

This opens the door.

So we talked about 150,000 undocumented immigrants in the city of Chicago.

However, there are 80900,000 Hispanic people who live in the city of Chicago.

So what the Supreme Court has just said is all 800,000 now can be subject to being detained heightens that fear which is going, which is part of the problem.

I'm pointing out the missions here is long as the missions.

They very, very small.

If we are very small numbers, were then then this will not be even hardly notice by the city in in a few months.

However, if anything close to what the missions are that President Trump is talking about start even just 25 quarter of this.

All right here, this will seriously impact the city.

So this is what we have to be aware of.

Witches just because we don't have violence breaking out tomorrow.

You know, we're an impatient attorney not coming there.

It right that we very impatient.

We things to happen.

Tomorrow said have to be alert and then kind of stay alert and also month and where our Wieters need to know their calls, which have been terrific.

>> Or no violence here that needs to happen.

Everyday violence or not.

next to my all right.

We'll be listening