Everybody with Angela Williamson is made possible by Fire Heart Entertainment and viewers like you.

Thank you.

To.

You from Los Angeles?

This is Kelsey's PBS.

Welcome to everybody with Angela Williamson and innovation, Arts, education and public affairs program.

Everybody, with Angela Williamson is made possible by viewers like you.

Thank you.

And that was the the honor.

Would dancing be one of my all time favorite?

And now let's make that random call with today's $10,000 question.

It's a tough one.

Who shot Alexander Hamilton in that famous duel?

All right, let's go to the phones and see who's out there.

Hello?

Hello?

For $10,000?

Who?

All the.

Excuse me.

Boom, boom.

Oh, there's a little.

No, I'm afraid your time is almost up our room.

I'm sorry.

Maybe next time.

I've.

Got milk.

I'm delighted to welcome iconic actor Sean Whalen to our conversation tonight.

Sean.

Hello.

How are you?

I am completely thrilled.

Oh.

Thank you.

Yes, because I've recently just watched you and finding a call.

Oh, and that, like I told you, you played your role well, and our audience can find that.

Yeah, but does it happen in your life that you see people on the street and they feel like they already know you?

It used to be, you know, you'd get the, you'd get the, you know.

Did you go to my high school?

Did you, you know, do I know you?

And you know, then finally I started to think, okay, I'm an actor.

And the oh, that's it, you know, and then you would describe a few shows and they would say, oh, I know you, you know, I know that show or whatever, my favorite story.

And then, you know, then that kind of got used to it.

My favorite story was a gentleman who said, I know you from something.

And I said, well, I'm an actor.

And he goes, now, now.

And I said, did you go to this acting school or did you go to UCLA?

Yes, I went to UCLA and I said, oh, are you in this department?

Social?

Sociology?

No, you're in the theater arts department?

No, I wasn't in there.

And we kept talking about different places, different dorms, everything.

And finally, I don't know, I was a cashier at the cooperage, which is our food service, and ordering out hamburgers every day.

And he goes, that's it.

So I was like, okay, well, it was that was the best, you know, non actor recognition that I ever, ever had.

And you remember that story until today I love that I love that so much.

Now when you went to UCLA you mentioned sociology.

I mean, did you go to UCLA to major and.

No.

Okay.

I actually got into the theater arts program.

I didn't know how selective it was.

I guess it was like, you know, a like 20 kids in the whole United States.

And I came from Maryland.

I got in, I got into a play the in the fall.

I was, very young, looking for my age.

And this part was a young 16 year old, and there was and I was 18 and I looked younger.

And then there's my only competition was a guy who was like, you know, six feet, had a beard.

And I was like, wow, I'm going to really have to stink to not get this role.

And I got it.

And I was in there with Daphne Zuniga, who was, in Spaceballs and Melrose Place, and, it was really good, but it was, you know, the school had a lot of, juniors and seniors that were upset that I got a role because most freshmen didn't get a role, and especially not first semester, you know, and it was very political.

And I thought, you know, I it's it.

And then you have to build sets.

And I was lazy.

So I said, you know, maybe the theater arts program isn't too much.

And I got a lot of heat from the play, and I wasn't ready for that kind of heat.

So I just finished out UCLA, and then I got into the Groundlings after that, and that's when I really was.

I was just I was too young.

I wasn't ready to to pursue it.

At 18.

I was much more prepared at 22.

And that's when I got into the Groundlings.

So tell me you said Groundlings.

Tell me about that.

Our audience wants to know.

So I, was at my senior year at UCLA.

I worked in the Boyer Clinic, which was, a place that did dialysis and blood transfusions and things like that.

And I would have to they needed a runner to go from this place that was far away from the hospital to go down through the tunnels, go to the hospitals, get X-rays, blood, you know, lab results, things like that, and bring them back.

And the doctors at work there were very friendly, and they said they'd go to the Groundlings every Sunday.

And they said you should go if you think it's fun.

And I thought, oh, man, it's like Saturday night Live type and live in person.

So I went and I was that's, you know, a lot of people say they do that when they're a little kid.

But I sat there and I went, oh, I, I, this is what I have to do.

And as soon as I graduated, I came and I, and I applied to get in.

There was a welcome class.

They let me in, but I didn't have the money.

So I was working at my job and, chin chin famous, la landmark if people know it.

And it was the one in Brentwood.

And I kept, working double shifts, triple shifts, so I could move up to be a waiter.

And then I got in in January 2027.

And back then the groundlings moved quicker.

Like now.

It takes years to get to the system, but I got through in two years.

I was in their Sunday show, by in 1989, and I had a, really good run in the Sunday show, and it was Lisa Kudrow.

Tim Bagley recognized.

Well, yes.

And I, then moved on from there to go do dramatic acting because I had an audition.

And as the casting director goes, wow, you don't know how to do this.

She goes, you're great on stage, but you got to learn how to audition, break down parts and things.

So I got a coach and went to Playhouse West and kind of been doing, drama and comedy.

I love comedy, it's my first love, but I've been probably doing mostly drama, which is interesting, because I really went into comedy and, and so, you know, like we were discussing before the cameras rolled, you never know the journey that's going to come at you.

You just have to get on a journey.

Anyone wants a start, especially if it's something you want to explore.

Correct?

Right.

Exactly.

So I wanted to get better at being an actor, not just a really good person on The Groundlings, but maybe if I had focused more and stayed in the Groundlings longer, I might have been on Saturday Night Live.

You just don't know.

You have no idea, because I know a lot of people who should have been on there that weren't, and I know a lot of people that should have been on there.

There were.

So you never know.

Well, and at this point you're so you're early on in your career in your mind.

And this happens to all of us in our minds.

We want to be something.

Yes.

But then we start exploring and those doors open.

Yeah.

So my question is, is, so how does a still young Sean, transition from Groundlings and then end up in this iconic commercial, the path of most actors that I knew back in my day in the early 90s was you would study then you, you know, try to get a commercial agent.

That was the way in way back then when you got a commercial, you were called Taft-Hartley and you'd get the SAG eligible.

Yes.

And so if you booked a commercial, they wouldn't care if you were in SAG or not.

They just would say, okay, we're going to Taft-Hartley.

You.

So now you're SAG eligible.

So I got into a commercial for I you might know this caboodles makeup.

How did you have to boodles what was it like?

Yes.

Or like the fishing tackle box?

Yes.

I had a purple one, and I think I might have had a lime green one.

Yes, yes.

Caboodles.

Now I'm going to go back to YouTube and find that commercial.

So yeah.

So I was my first commercial for MTV.

Okay.

And I that was my first commercial.

And then I in the 80s as you maybe you don't know, but I there was feathered hair and I had straight, straight hair.

And they, and, I had straight hair.

And then in the 90s, it was okay to have spiked hair.

So for me, I just put gel in my hair, stuck it straight up, and I would wear it to my commercial auditions.

And they said, you look like Stan Laurel from Laurel and Hardy, which I kind of do.

And I, and he they go, you look like a punk rock, Stan Laurel.

Which this one, Marc story was, he did the all the old, very dry Little Caesars commercial.

Yes.

And I did a bunch of those and so then you would get a commercial agent, and then after you did some commercials, you would get a theatrical agent.

So I was still doing commercial, you know, commercial stuff.

And I did have a theatrical by that time.

And the milk commercial was just another one, you know, same guys with the young guys my age, all character actors.

And, this one character actor had done work with Michael Bay who direct.

Yes.

And so everybody thought he was going to get it.

So they brought me in the they brought me in the room.

They had peanut butter, they had bread.

And they said and gave me the script and said, you know, just just play along with it.

And I because I knew I was never going to get it.

I slathered on a ton of peanut butter, shoved it in my mouth, and they didn't have an ending.

They just basically it ended when they said, sorry, you didn't win.

And from what they told me, why I got the part was a lot of the other guys threw their stuff, got angry, bang the table, screamed, cried, broke down, sobbing, and I was the only one.

It was like, oh, I've wasted my life.

Yeah, I guess I was kind of like, Aaron Burr.

Like why?

You know, I mean, you see, I've been on this thing and I'm going, oh, I messed up.

And they said, that's the ending we need.

So they hired me.

And I also thought I was too young.

I thought the whole spot would be much more tragic.

And I think that's what they said.

They said if it was an older man, then it's really tragic.

Yeah, but a very young guy obsessed with it.

It's still can be funny.

Yes.

It was.

Oh.

So, and then when I booked it, Michael Bay just said, do what you did in the commercial.

And I did it over and over and over again, and it got immediate, one the Commercial Academy Award through the club goes, please go see.

Yes.

We had to pull that out.

Yes, we had to pull that off that Cleo Ward's Cleo Awards.

And then, Spielberg saw it and a friend of mine said, hey, you know, you're going your life is going to change.

Because he was using young actors Vince Vaughn from from, swingers and stuff like that.

And so, and then like a year and a half, I tried out for twister and got it.

So that's what changed everything killed my commercial career, though I could never that milk commercial.

No one ever wanted to work with me again at that time, because I was the milk guy.

And so if you're the milk guy and you're selling a truck, you don't want them to go, oh, the milk guy's in a truck.

You want to go?

There's a guy driving that truck, you know?

Can we talk about.

I don't think I've ever had a guest talk about this, but can we talk about stereotypes of.

Oh, yeah, Hollywood.

And and is there absolutely no way to overcome those stereotypes?

What do you have to do?

Something different?

Well, I mean, for commercials, I think it's different because it's there to sell their product.

That's it.

Yeah.

Like that's the only thing.

So anything.

So the guys who said, you know, can you hear me now or like Flo or whatever, she was, she was a growling.

She is a great name.

I'm thinking up to you.

What?

But he's he's an established actor who went and did this contract.

But but like the.

Can you hear me?

Hear me now, guys?

Yes, he did several and made millions of dollars.

I only did one.

And it was only California.

Only for the first two years.

And so I was making 1100 every three months before taxes and agent.

So I was probably making $400, I probably $1,200 at least, giving you milk for that.

But then it did so well in California, they sold it nationally and then nationally, and then it was really good for a couple of years, good money.

And that was good for a couple years.

But usually even those they hang on for a long time just in case they bring it back.

And they dropped it.

And then a year later, they're like, hey, can we, bring it back for just one quarter?

And my agent said, not if you can pay the holding fee that you should have paid them, you know, and they bring it back every once in a while.

But, you know, it kind of it's so great because people come up to me.

Oh, I just saw that the other day on TV.

And I go, no you didn't.

No, no, no you didn't.

You saw it on YouTube.

Yeah.

You saw it on it to tell you something, right.

You didn't see it, but it was mainly that.

And then I was known for my funny faces because that's what that commercial was.

So I did the movie Jury Duty, where they wanted to make funny faces, and they did, you know, idle hands where they wanted me to funny, you know, funny faces.

And yes, you have to break out of that.

But luckily, because of my drama training, I luckily got some good dramatic roles so people would see both sides.

And then, you know, my goal, personal goal was, I don't want to be the milk guy anymore.

I want to be that guy who I've seen you in something.

And, you know, you said you set an intention like that.

You don't know how it's going to change.

But as long as you have that intention and move towards it slowly, eventually I became that guy.

You know, that's my email.

That guy.

Yes.

And, you, Because I'm that guy, then, like, I know you're from that thing in there, you know, then now I know my demographic.

You know, if I'm a big guy with tats on his face and wearing black leather, I would to go.

You're my one of my horror fans.

And you probably know me from people under the stairs or, you know, a young girl, in their 20s.

I go, you know me from Disney Channel and Hannah Montana, and an older woman knows me from Never Been Kissed.

And, you know, Midwestern people know me mostly from twister and, you know, so it's funny, I know my demographic now that I can go, I think I know you know me from well, you are putting in that UCLA degree into play by being able to do your demographics.

That's true.

Analyze that.

I never thought of it.

Yes.

You know, when my daughters say you didn't use your degree, I'm going to say yes.

Yes.

Did.

Yes yes yes.

You you.

Absolutely.

That's a great way to end our first segment.

When we come back, you are in some great light streaming shows, movies.

You have some great projects.

So I want to talk about that.

Great.

Thank you.

Come back to hear more from Sean.

We've had over 50 kids come through this home.

God knows what would have happened to him if it wasn't for us.

I'm sure they're very grateful.

My apologies.

The facts are just a lot less dramatic than Miss Beverly would like us to believe.

Welcome back.

Sean.

That was an incredible first segment.

What I took away from it is how you decided to set your intention to make sure how you remembered.

Yes.

I mean, how do you come up with that is very philosophical.

Well, I just think that you know, I was I started my journey also.

I was very into self-help books when I was in my 20s, at Playhouse West.

Bob Carnegie, who opened the school and ran the school, was very much telling us to we we had book assignments.

We had to do a book report every month.

We had to read a book every month.

And he always said, do these self-help books because he said, you know, the actor is to lead by emotions in the craft, but they don't know the toughness of the business.

So they get to know the you were supposed to be vulnerable in the show, but we better have a thick skin for the business.

So he would make us read these kind of tougher books.

You know, seven Habits of Highly Effective People, Tony Robbins, things like that.

And I think it was more that and also, you know, simply I just didn't want to be known as the milk guy when I was 60, you know what I mean?

And so I wanted to go, okay, you know, that's great that that got me in the door, but now I have to try to be known as an actor.

And and so you always have to I think it's the hardest thing is you have to pivot and be flexible.

And, you know, I remember seeing a documentary that frightened me.

It was the guy who was like, I just want to do what my dad did in the factory clothes.

Your dad made eight track tapes.

They don't make them any more.

I can't help you out.

So you you you can't weep about what isn't.

You have to go.

How do I adapt to what is?

And I think that's what was happening to me.

I go, okay, if I don't do anything, I will be the milk guy at 60 and I'll be the only thing people will remember me mean.

I don't want to be that guy.

Everybody that has a long career in this industry has had to learn to pivot since, you know, we both were talking about being children of the 80s.

Yeah.

Because, you know, since the 80s, we have streaming.

Yes.

Independent filmmaking has exploded.

Yeah.

You know, it's you have YouTube, you have so many things.

So how did you pivot so that we're now seeing you, you're streaming, you have a you have an appearance on a show that's on Disney.

Yes.

And you have movies that are now produced by independent filmmakers.

How did you do that?

Well, I think I think what happened for me was, when social, you know, when Facebook came in like 2009.

Yes, I had a ton of friend requests and I go, I don't know, these people.

And one of my friends from New York, like, we know you, he's a jazz drummer, said, listen, my friend Vincent said, you got to accept these people.

I said, why he?

Because they're all your fans and of course they're not.

And he goes, watch.

And I just, I remember one night literally going to accept, accept, accept it.

And I probably accepted like 400 people and literally all the messages were roach people under the stairs.

And I know you from Batman Returns and like, you have to come to this horror convention and, you know, so it opened up this whole new, dialog with an audience.

And I say social media and these horror conventions and all these public, you know, things where I go do autographs and meet people.

And when people are nice to you on, you know, I'll like their comments.

I'll comment back.

If I'm doing a live streaming thing, they're like, oh, you're so down to earth.

I go, I don't think I'm down to earth.

I think the people who aren't doing this are kind of jerks because we were just raised correctly, you know, my daughter was just praised because she had eye contact.

She's a hostess.

And she because they thought she was fantastic, because she has eye contact and could speak clearly.

And I go, is that the standard that like, she's exceptional because she can have eye contact.

But I said that's who I am.

I said I just and I interacted with the fans and I just felt, well, what would they want from me?

Fun and silly stuff.

So I always take silly photos and do caption contests.

I'll I'll dress up as a character and go name my weird character.

So they're always interacting with me where I'm playing and having fun with them.

And so I don't ask for a lot of things.

I don't ask for a lot of things to go watch me on the show.

Oh, of course, post when I have something.

But if all you do is post about, you know what you're doing, you know, watch me on this show.

Do this for me.

What are you doing for them?

You know, and so I think I always try to be more, you know, down to earth and talk to them just like they would.

And I say, if I'm inviting you into my digital space, it's like inviting you into my home.

So I would be your guest.

You're my guest.

So I'm going to treat you better.

And then that really blew up on TikTok.

I just I'm so lucky.

I met a girl who taught me all about it, one of my friends.

And right before the pandemic, it saved me mentally, because I had something to do.

All day, and then I, it saved me, creatively, because all these people started to recognize all my work from the 90s, and they were all coming in and they'd say, oh, you're so underrated.

You're so underrated.

And so then when I was funding my first movie, crust, that's now on to be and it's on, Amazon Prime, and it's about a lonely guy who lives in the laundromat who collects the leftover socks, and then when he gets bullied, he cries.

When I'm going, it turns into a sock monster named crust.

Super cute.

And it and it takes care of all his enemies.

And I wrote it right after my depression.

So my guy was depressed and got through it through this sock monster.

But they all funded it.

And I said, you know, I did an Indiegogo and that, and I said, how is this happening?

And they said, we said we wanted to see you in bigger parts.

You've always treated us with respect.

So we're going to help you fund your problem, your movie.

And it was just so what a night it was like, It's a Wonderful life, you know what I mean?

It's about healing, right?

That's what I that's the word I use all the time is I'm very humbled because I don't understand why.

And they go, because you treat us like you're equals.

And one of my common phrases, I can listen, your job is not less important than mine.

I said, the only difference is I show up in your living room and at your local movie theater.

Everything else is the same.

I'm hustling for work.

I'm trying to pay bills.

I go, everything's the same.

You know that we're the same.

You know, when students ask me why I'm teaching, I said, we're working actors.

We have to.

Sometimes we have to have a second gig.

Yeah, exactly.

Yes.

So I think that that that was the nicest thing to navigate, these, these new mediums, by having more direct contact with your fans.

And they are now the gatekeepers, not a studio head who goes, I don't see Sean Whalen as a lead actor.

They go, no, no, no, we'd like to see him as a lead actor.

So we're going to put money to see him as a lead actor.

So that was that is very humbling, you know, and it's humbling.

You love your craft, but you also love the energy that you're getting from your fans.

Well, look, we as actors, our prime goal is to study behavior.

So who has behavior?

I'm not going to study a cat.

I'm going to study human beings of all types sizes.

You know, there was a study that just came out that said longevity is not to do with, you know, if you smoke or drink or whatever.

It's how many people you talk to during a day, meaning the guy at the clean.

I go to a gym and, you know, it's a it's not a big boujee gym.

Planet Fitness, and I'm the only one who says hello to the woman claiming no one else does.

And I go, you know why?

And she's so.

Oh, hi.

See, I'm not trying to be demeaning.

Go.

Oh, I'm going to say nice to clean.

It's just she's a person and she's helping keep this place clean.

And I thought, God, it's just a weird thing, but my love of people is my job.

I want to ask you, how has Sean been able to keep being authentic through a very you know, it's this career just has so many ups and downs.

How have you been able to do that?

Anything in any business, especially nowadays, you know, in the old days you could have a job at a company, be there for 50 years, get the gold watch that doesn't exist there, like, oh, you need a safe job.

Tell me one safe job.

There's none, there's none.

So you better be ready to adapt.

And I think that boredom and wanting to find new things has helped me.

And of course, it's hurt me on some things that I'd say, oh, I'm going to do this.

And then I died.

It doesn't last as long as I wish, but I think that's it.

It's the adaptability.

And again, my love of people.

I'm not networking and schmoozing.

I'm being me.

You know what I mean?

When you networking, you can tell you're just networking for, you know, that's decent, genuine.

But I love meeting people.

I love seeing people in their different journeys.

And so that is natural networking in its own way.

I mean, and it's paying off.

I just did a, show that, Magnum P.I.

in Hawaii where the guy brought me back, no questions asked.

They called and said, Come to Hawaii.

And I was like, okay.

And it was a big part and the whole thing.

And I said, how did you find me?

He goes, oh, I worked on jury duty 25 years ago.

Disney Channel is you mentioned, the Halloween episode of Wizards of Waverly Place.

They worked with me 16 years ago.

If I was a jerk and disinterested and didn't, I don't think they would have brought me back.

16 years later, they're bringing me back to do the same character because I was good to work with.

And that's what I think the industry has changed when I started, it was 30% attitude.

It's 70% talent.

I think that's flipped.

I think it's 30% talent and 70% do.

I want to work with you because, you know, I it's hard.

It's difficult.

And Tina Fey said it best if I'm walking in the hallway 3:00 am and you walk out of your office, I have to be glad to see you and not go.

What are they doing here?

And I think having the good attitude and enjoying people and the experience of just being on this planet helps a ton.

It's a perfect way to end our conversation.

Shot.

You made my job so easy.

Oh thank you, thank you're welcome.

And thank you for spending some time with us and letting our audience just get to know the person behind the faces that we've seen.

Yes.

And I'm actually going to make sure this weekend I watch twister again.

Yeah.

You and there are thousands of others I know, I know, I said it to my audience.

Will be watching too.

Yes, yes.

Do you want to say where I can be found?

Oh, yes.

Yeah.

At Sean Whalen, actor on TikTok at Sean Whalen, actor on Instagram and even on Facebook.

You can find me on all those places.

I got so excited I forgot that.

Thank you for reminding me.

I know you said you wanted to make sure I said that.

And you're good at remembering your lines.

Thank you.

Thank you, and thank you for joining us on everybody with Angela Williams.

And viewers like you make this show possible.

Join us on social media to continue this conversation.

Good night and stay well.