Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by: Viewers Like You >> Nash: This week on New Mexico in Focus.

Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham addresses the Legislature one last time, and lawmakers react as they roll into session.

>> Grisham: Over the last seven years, New Mexico has shown what's possible.

>> Sharer: The governor took credit for a lot of stuff today.

It was because we had a thriving oil and gas industry.

>> Nash: And speaking of the state's primary, if controversial, economic driver.

We'll hear from the President and CEO of the New Mexico Oil and Gas Association too.

New Mexico in Focus, starts now.

Thanks for joining us.

I'm Nash Jones.

The Roundhouse is in session.

We head up to Santa Fe this week to hear from Senate Majority Leader, Peter Wirth and Minority Leader, Bill Sharer.

Health care proposals are a priority for both parties in this session.

And we're going to hear from Republican Senator Nicole Tobiassen and about her own family's harrowing experience of having to look beyond New Mexico to get care.

What she proposes doing about it.

Of course, we also heard from Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham while in the capital, who delivered her final state of the state address to a joint session on Tuesday.

The termed-out governor took the opportunity to revisit the legacy that she's built over the last seven years, and to tell lawmakers what she wants to see happen in her last.

>> Grisham: What we've built over the last seven years isn't just a list of accomplishments.

It's a blueprint.

It's a model for what leadership can look like here in New Mexico and across the Nation.

And it's rooted in a belief we've proved true, that you don't solve big problems by narrowing your vision, but you expand it to meet them all.

Ah -- thank you.

[Applause from audience] And it's the story of the past seven years.

You know, it starts with the children who represent the future of our state.

[Applause from audience] When I took office, too many families found childcare unaffordable, unavailable, or frankly, both.

Today, building on the hard work of legislative leaders like speaker Javier Martinez and Senator Michael Padilla and so many others.

We're ready to solve that problem once and for all.

With universal childcare provided at no cost to every single family who needs it across the state.

[Applause from audience] >> Nash: As they have each year, Republican lawmakers made their rebuttal to the press following the governor's speech.

On the Senate side, Minority Leader Bill Sharer struck a maybe surprisingly complimentary tone, while also criticizing the governor's approach to gun control and oil and gas regulation.

>> Sharer: You know, for the longest time, we've been promoting some -- public safety bills that have always been stymied.

And yet, in this case, today, the governor and I and the governor, us are on the same page, going in the same direction with health care access.

Also, she's promoting some of the same things that we've worked on for years now, particularly the med-mal reform.

You know, there's a lot of other things that are going on in there, the compact and things like that, that, that we're going to do.

But she is really pushing the Med-Mal reform issue because that is the core -- of the problem that we have with medicine today.

We don't have doctors, not because of all of the other stuff, but because they don't want to get sued into oblivion.

And so I was real happy to see that.

The governor took credit for a lot of stuff today.

We ran a lot of stuff -- happened.

Some of it even good.

But it was because we had a thriving oil and gas industry.

Had we not had a thriving oil and gas industry during her term, none of this could have happened.

And she didn't do anything to help the oil and gas industry get stronger during that time.

Okay.

It's thriving because we've got the best oil and gas in the world, the cleanest barrel of oil produced in the planet comes from the Permian Basin in New Mexico.

The cleanest natural gas in the planet comes from San Juan Basin.

That's why she has all the money to do all the great things.

>> Nash: If you'd like to watch the Governor's State of the State Address and or the GOP senators response in full, you can find both on the New Mexico in Focus YouTube channel.

>> Currier: We will absolutely get to an energy transition one day and we are working toward that.

But to get to an energy transition, you must first go through an energy expansion.

We believe in oil -- responsible oil and gas production.

We know that renewables like wind and solar and others are going to be incredibly important.

And with the demands that we have on the electric grid right now, which are continuing to grow, we need all of those energies to ensure that New Mexico remains a stable place to live, work and play.

>> Nash: Capital and Main reporter, Jerry Redfern's interview with New Mexico Oil and Gas Association President and CEO Missy Currier.

Is in about 25 minutes.

By all accounts, this session is going to be a hectic one with so many wish list items for both the governor and lawmakers.

That mad dash had to start on day one.

If they have any hope of getting all they want through.

During his State of the State address, the governor acknowledged the amount of extra work that it's going to take this year and shouted out Senator Peter Wirth.

That's where we will begin my interview with the Senate Majority Leader.

>> Nash: Senator Wirth, thanks so much for the time.

>> Wirth: Happy to do it.

>> Nash: So it's a 30 day session.

Pretty much anything that's going to get done is going to have to happen pretty quickly here.

But the governor mentioned that you have assured her that there are a few things that you want to get done as quickly as possible in the first week, even.

>> Grisham: I want to thank Senate Majority Leader Peter Wirth for recognizing the urgency of many of these issues, because they're urgent and that critical issues simply can't wait.

I thank you for your efforts to lead to fast track the road bonding package, medical licensing compacts, and our call for a modernized civil commitment law with the goal of passing them through the Senate in the first week of the session.

[Applause from audience] >> Nash: One of those was modernizing the state's civil commitment law.

What does that mean?

>> Wirth: Yeah, that's been a priority of the governor's.

A Bill, we've had, a lot of debate about in last year's Session.

So it involves the civil commitment statute, and it's those scenarios where someone who is having mental health challenges, continues to be brought into the system over and over.

And, Justice Zamora, Supreme Court justice, when she was a district judge, talked about the fact that she saw the same people over and over.

And the current code basically says there's options of putting them into extensive treatment if they reach certain criminal thresholds, or dismissing the case.

So this changes the definition of harm to self, harm to others, designed to get folks the treatment they need.

And it's a bill that passed the Senate unanimously last session, and we actually pass it a couple times.

There's still some debate in the House, about whether this is the right approach, but it's part of the governor's agenda.

And certainly something that I felt since we had done it before, I wanted to include it in these initial four, five bills that we're going to do on an expedited basis.

>> Nash: But still unsure what your colleagues in the House, how they might react.

>> Wirth: Yeah, that's the one, Bill.

And I think I've been clear in saying we have four bills where there is agreement between both chambers and the governor, and you're going to see those move fast.

Again, we're going to try the three bills over in the Senate, which includes harm to self.

That's the one that the House is not quite on board on.

But the other two are the medical compact.

I am thrilled that, a lot of work went on in the interim.

Senator Linda Trujillo and Senator Nicole Tobiassen, work together with a bicameral, bipartisan group meeting with the medical compact committee, and they've reached agreement.

Many of the changes that were made in Senate Judiciary are going to be adopted.

And so that's one we'll move quickly.

There's also-- >> Nash: And that's specifically the Physicians Compact.

>> Wirth: Yes, that's the physicians copy.

>> Nash: And so I spoke to Speaker Martinez not long ago.

And he was saying, that he was interested in seeing that physicians compact pass as well as one for social workers.

Is the Senate also interested in both of those?

>> Wirth: We are.

And the social workers.

We've got agreement on that as well.

And so the same group met with the social worker Compact.

That bill is going to start in the House.

The medical compact in the Senate.

And then we're going to do a $1.5 billion road package bill, that's Senate Bill two.

And so and then hard to self-harmed, there's civil command is Senate Bill three.

And so my goal is to get those bills onto the Senate floor, by Friday.

And so we're actually sitting in my office here at 5:30.

We just came off the floor.

>> Nash: On Tuesday.

>> Wirth: On Tuesday.

We never typically meet on Friday.

The first kind of week of a session.

But I just felt that there was agreement and work that had been done.

And this is a model that we used in the 60 day session.

Remember, we had that failed special session.

We told the governor we needed to do more work.

We did the work.

We came back in in the 60 day session.

And in that first 30 days passed some landmark behavioral health legislation.

She mentioned today the criminal commitment statute that was done in the first 30 days.

So, you know, I've done this long enough that you know, you want to I just feel like you kind of question, why have we always done things a certain way?

And so this is different.

Definitely got some pushback from some folks.

But also especially our newer members are like, this is great, let's get to work.

They're excited to get some stuff done.

>> Wirth: Yeah, we're going to get some stuff done.

>> Nash: I'm going back just briefly to compacts.

It sounds like there's interest in getting the physician and the Social Work Compact across the line.

I saw, some 11 bills related to compacts for other types of providers, dentists, therapists, behavioral health providers, EMTs, is there an appetite to get those across the line as well, or really just those two?

>> Wirth: So I'm certainly open to whatever we can get done.

I think, though, we've set a model for how to do this.

It's not just voting them up or down.

There was a lot of misinformation, put out by certain groups saying, this is so simple.

You just vote this up or down.

You can't amend them.

Turns out that is not at all correct.

It's important that these compacts work with our New Mexico legal system.

And I'll give you an example.

I mean, the the issue of women's health care.

Gender affirming care.

These are things that you got to be careful about when you're allowing doctors from out of state to come into New Mexico.

We want to make sure that our New Mexico rules are being followed.

Subpoenas.

I mean, there's a lot of in the weeds legal issues.

You just want to get it right.

>> Nash: I also spoke with Republican Senator Nicole Tobiassen who said that, what she was hearing, about was that it may be a concern that the regulatory body that would put all of these things into action, couldn't take all of that on at once.

Is that also a concern?

>> Wirth: It is.

No, it is.

And and Senator Tobiassen and Senator Trujillo remember, Senator Trujillo was the superintendent of insurance.

And so she certainly understands that whole regulatory world.

She was instrumental in cannabis and putting that in place.

And she has told me that basically, you know, we're at the end of an administration.

They're going to get the social worker compact.

The medical compact will go to the medical board.

But she has said that basically just the amount of work it takes to implement this, having one at a time, is a reality given given the workload they have.

So I'm open to the other compacts.

I don't want there to be any message that we're not willing to do it.

I think what we've shown, though, is there's a right way to do it.

And then there's just the take a political vote way to do it.

I'm really proud of the fact that these senators came together.

Republicans, Democrats, House, Senate, worked with a committee, validated the work of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and some of the members of that committee have taken some real shots, out in the public.

And I think that's unfair.

This will be a good week to kind of hear what happened.

You'll hear Senator Trujillo talk about the process and Senator Tobiassen and I think it just validates when we take our time, we get things right and really do good things for New Mexico.

>> Nash: Another piece of addressing the doctor shortage that's come up, several times, several sessions is reforming medical malpractice insurance.

It's a priority for the governor.

She mentioned that, where do you and your caucus in the Senate stand on that?

>> Wirth: So again, I don't think there's a caucus position per se, on that issue.

I've been involved in this issue in 2021, there was a big compromise reached.

And I want to point out, there were agreements reached by the hospital association, the medical society, and the trial lawyers in 2021.

And then in 2023, it was the medical society and the trial lawyers.

I actually negotiated the agreement in 2023 with Senator Baca.

I have visited with the governor and certainly have heard her kind of list of things.

I stressed the importance of having them all talking amongst themselves, the different groups, and that's happening, and I am encouraged by that.

I've learned here that, you know, these are very powerful lobbies on both sides, and the best thing that can happen is for them to reach a compromise.

And I'm hoping that can happen.

Certainly I've heard we did three town halls the two weeks before the session in Santa Fe.

The number one issue was health care.

Actually didn't get a single question about crime, which was interesting to me with over 100 people at each of these town halls.

Everyone is focused on health care, compacts and doing reforms that really help our doctors.

>> Nash: Would you say that's a priority for you this session then?

>> Wirth: It is especially with our doctors.

I mean, again, I've met with lots of Santa Fe doctors and the environment, practicing medicine, especially as an independent doctor, is harder than ever.

And so I'm sensitive to what's the challenges they're facing.

I've heard those issues.

I'm also sensitive to the to the balance that needs to be found.

You want to make sure that patients have the right when something really bad happens, to have a jury weigh in.

And again, and I've seen let me just say one more thing and I'll disclose this.

I always like to disclose this in my legal practice.

I've done mediations involving medical malpractice and wrongful death.

I've also been appointed as a court appointed personal representative in those cases.

It's given me an insight, not on a on a contingency fee.

So it's an hourly basis.

But I've been able to sit through these jury trials and seen some just horrific things and some of these big out of state corporations, hospital corporations again, have come in private equity is, you know, we're the number one private equity state.

So we've got to find a solution here in a balance.

I'm really going to work hard to find something that works for our doctors.

>> Nash: We'll hear more from Senate Majority Leader Wirth in about 30 minutes, when he shares the rest of his legislative priorities, including barring New Mexico cities and counties from contracting with federal authorities to detain immigrants.

So you just heard a considerable amount about health care from the senator, particularly two key approaches to tackling New Mexico's medical provider shortage, joining interstate compacts and reforming the state's medical malpractice laws.

Well, I caught up with the Republican senator, Nicole Tobiassen in the hallway of the round House to hear more about these proposals from her side of the aisle, Tobiassen sat on a bipartisan working group that prepared medical compact legislation for the session and is a co-sponsor of the Senate proposal.

She also knows firsthand how difficult it can be to find a doctor in New Mexico.

>> Nash: Senator Tobiassen, thanks so much for your time.

Do you feel comfortable sharing a bit about your experience and your husband's experience?

>> Tobiassen: Sure.

Beginning of September, my husband was bit here in Albuquerque by a mosquito and contracted West Nile virus viral encephalitis, which has left him on a ventilator and virtually paralyzed.

Extreme encephalopathy.

And he's been in ICU first here in Albuquerque.

We ended up having to transfer him to Cleveland Clinic for a higher level of care, you know, in Ohio.

Cleveland, Ohio.

He was there for the last month and a half.

And while we were opening, the Senate here this morning, I got word that, he landed in Houston.

They've transported him to a hospital there.

That is the number one neuro rehab center in the country.

And we I in particular am living through navigating the extreme situation New Mexico finds itself in, in relation to doctors, nurses, technicians, but especially the strain on the doctors in this state.

>> Nash: Is he in Texas?

In part because there just aren't the specialists in New Mexico to care for.

>> Nash: That is right.

Actually, when he was in ICU here in New Mexico, they couldn't really give him any physical therapy, because they didn't have the staff to do it.

And he was in a unique situation.

I call it medical purgatory, because if you're a vented patient in our state and many other states, too, but in New Mexico, you're either in ICU on a ventilator, or they ship you out.

Excuse my voice to a long term care facility, and acute care hospital of 25 beds that have even less staff, even less equipment, even less capacity to help the patient.

>> Nash: A long criticized element of what's contributing to our doctor shortage is medical malpractice insurance in New Mexico, which doesn't have a cap.

The minimum level of proof required is quite low.

The governor in her state of the state speech called for medical malpractice reform.

It was one of the places in her speech that got resounding applause, including from, Republicans.

>> Grisham: Let's approve all the medical compacts, making it easier for out-of-state license providers to practice here.

Thank you.

And now, you know, again, these are bipartisan ideas.

And, it's going to take leadership.

They're going to take leadership here.

It's going to take leadership up the middle.

But we can do it.

And let's enact real, meaningful medical malpractice reform in a way.

>> Nash: There is a bipartisan bill, that has been introduced that would cap punitive damages and also raise that level of proof that's needed.

What do you like about that bill?

And what more would you like to see?

>> Tobiassen: Well, I just want to make sure that we're clear that we're talking about the same thing, because medical malpractice is different than punitive damages.

Medical malpractice is the foundation of how a doctor is sued, and punitive damages are slapped on as an extra gimme for the trial attorneys.

Now, is it warranted?

Perhaps.

But New Mexico has the lowest barrier, the lowest burden of proof of punitive damages, basically in the country.

And what we're asking for and I haven't read the final bill.

I know that Representative Chandler, I believe, has the strongest bill going in in this matter >> Nash: and that the that's the one I'm referring to.

And Representative Gale Armstrong of your party.

It has, is a co-sponsor on that bill.

>> Tobiassen: Right Well, and I have asked to be a part of it and help in any way I can with, zero response from Representative Chandler.

And my concern is that she doesn't get the support that she needs from her own caucus, either in the House or here in the Senate.

And then we've gone a whole nother year failing every New Mexican who needs health care, even a primary care physician.

Presbyterian is no longer taking people, even on their waiting list, for a primary doctor.

We can't survive.

New Mexicans cannot access medicine, whether it's in our rural areas or right here in Albuquerque.

Again, it's why I and other families have had to ship our family members out of state at an incredible cost, incredible stressor.

Think about what so many families go through in this state when they can't get basic care.

So we have to change the definition of punitive damages to match what it is in other states.

There has to be some some level of proof that that an attorney comes to the trial with and saying, here's the proof that there was malice in regards to what this doctor did and what they're doing, and they know darn well they use punitive damages as a strong, very strong negotiating tool when they go to mediation with these doctors.

They scare them that they asked for everything they own.

College accounts for their children, what their spouses own.

They get everything financial in their life and they tell them, hey, we have punitive damage slapped on this case.

So they use it as a negotiating tool to get them to, settle for the highest amount possible on the medical malpractice side of the case.

So they're not necessarily, getting those damages on the punitive side.

>> Nash: And so this would cap those damages.

What do you see as standing in the way of a bill like this that has bipartisan support?

>> Tobiassen: I'm going to tell you historically, it's been very specific trial attorneys that are in the Senate and in the House, and unfortunately, they're Democrats.

And so the medical compact bill that I'm a co-sponsor on, that is laying the foundation partly for doctors from all over the country to service our our patients that are in so desperate need and to use technology even to see those patients virtually.

However, if we pass that and we don't pass in this session, the medical malpractice reform that not only readdress punitive damages, how they're how they're, defined, how they're capped and then stacking of occurrences.

So, for instance, my husband had a neurologist at Presbyterian that saw him and she said, I'm in five cases, not because I killed five patients or I was part of a bad outcome.

It's because I was asked to just look at a chart.

They didn't even need a neurologist.

But what they do is if someone believes there's a bad outcome, there's zero barrier to entry to sue them for punitive damages and again, use it as a negotiating tool.

And they put every nurse, every technician, every doctor, every person that had anything to do with that patient in a lawsuit, lawsuit and with all the punitive damages.

So we have to get this under control.

>> Nash: So let's talk about those compacts here.

Sponsor one.

There's there's some at this point, 11, bills to join these compacts.

Would you like to see, New Mexico join more of these compacts than simply the doctors or the social worker?

>> Tobiassen: Of course, I think that we should reasonably, join all ten compacts.

Social work is on the table.

I think it's starting here in the Senate with Senator Trujillo, I believe.

And then we have the medical, licensure compact that I'm a co-sponsor with, with Trujillo.

and Duhig that has probably the most support that I know of.

And then I was told by someone in the Senate that the reason why we're not going to address the other ones is we don't have time to do the research and the regulatory department can't handle all of that.

I mean, I'm going to ask some really big questions going forward, especially sitting on Senate Finance and ask why in the world with the thousands of state employees that we have and technology that we have at our disposal, why is that such a huge undertaking?

It's not because, I guarantee you, if there was a senator or representative in a place of power in this building that wanted to see it get done on the Democrat side, it'd get done.

>> Nash: Now, I want to ask you again to to break down if let's say the physicians compact and the social work Compact do get passed despite, all these others that are on the table.

But medical malpractice reform does not.

Those punitive damages don't get capped.

How does, does one affect the other?

>> Tobiassen: Well, okay.

If you if we pass the compacts, it opens up the fact that, let's say you were in the military and your spouse is a doctor, you now can move with your spouse and your family here in a heartbeat and know within a week, maybe two weeks max, that your spouse can practice in this state as a doctor.

That's a win for our five bases, especially when the federal government has blatantly said no more assignments, no more new missions in New Mexico.

Until you fix what's happening in the medical realm in your state.

So that's huge from that perspective.

However, if you are a doctor wanting to dabble in New Mexico, especially work remotely, you are still subject to the medical malpractice laws and how we've set everything up here in New Mexico.

And I would ask, unless you just have a big heart to serve some people that really need help.

You're opening yourself up to potential litigation that you wouldn't see necessarily in your home state.

So if you're from Texas and you decide to practice here, you're opening up yourself to a lot more potential lawsuits than if you just stayed in Texas.

And I guarantee you there's plenty of patients for you in Texas.

So they go hand in hand.

It becomes some kind of political, hey, we fixed it.

We addressed it.

It won't be true if we only passed the compacts.

It's a toe in the water.

It has to come along with medical malpractice reform.

It's a must.

>> Nash: You are in the minority.

And I've heard from GOP leaders over the last several sessions, including special sessions, that they're feeling left out of the process, not included in negotiations before a session.

Gavels in, left out of any kind of influence, around what gets done during the session?

Do you relate with that?

>> Tobiassen: Yes, because look at what my family is living through.

We are living through the most extreme dire medical situation that anyone could ever find themselves in.

And I am fighting every single day.

I've fought for four and a half months to keep my husband alive, just to get him to a point where he can get to a rehab facility that will take him in this state.

Doctor after doctor were telling me he was probably just going to die.

You know why?

Because they were going to ship them off.

They're going to ship them off to a long term care facility.

And in this building, everyone, at least in the chamber -- in this chamber, in the Senate, knows what my family has been going through.

>> Nash: How do you navigate being able to have some influence be at the table?

>> Tobiassen: Well, you start trying to call people, which I have.

I am not on the medical malpractice bill, and I would certainly like to be if I read it in and agree with what's in there.

From what I'm hearing, it's really a good bill.

But will it get passed?

And why aren't we bringing along senators or Representatives that understand this, that have lived it, that are passionate about it, to make sure that we help whip up the votes from the rest of the caucus or the rest of the chamber to get it done for every New Mexican.

And when you say, I'm in the minority.

Well, I'm a Republican.

I'm in the minority.

But when it comes to the desperate need for access to medical care, I am in the vast majority with every New Mexican.

>> Nash: Senator, thanks for your time.

>> Tobiassen: You're more than welcome.

Thank you.

>> Nash: Despite some trepidation from Democratic leaders, several interstate compact bills not just two cleared, their first House committee on Wednesday.

A big thank you to Senator Tobiassen for sharing both her insight and her personal story with us.

Meanwhile, outside the Roundhouse on opening day, a large coalition of demonstrators marched from the Santa Fe Plaza to rally at the Capitol under the banner “We Got Us”, hosted by Youth United for Climate Crisis Action, or YUCCA.

More than two dozen advocacy organizations showed up for what was billed as a mass mobilization.

Attendees demanded action on a host of issues, from racial justice and economic justice to immigrant detention and climate change, noting how they're all intertwined.

>> Guillen: The rise of fascism is directly tied to the consolidation of wealth, land, energy and control.

When top corporations rule, democracy dies and communities are left fighting for survival.

This is why climate justice, migrant justice, workers rights and abolition are not separate struggles.

We are not here to tweak a broken system.

We are here to transform it.

We didn't come here today to ask Blackstone or anyone inside the Capitol for permission.

We came here to resist because New Mexico is not a commodity.

Our water is not an asset, our energy is not a profit stream.

So let me say it very clearly.

New Mexico is not for sale.

>> Nash: Blackstone, which Guillen referenced is a massive private equity firm with plans to acquire TXNM energy, the parent company of PNM, the state's largest electric provider.

We are going to head back inside the roundhouse here in a moment, but let's stick with energy and the environment a bit longer.

Last week, we introduced you to a weekly segment on oil and gas policy that we're going to bring you throughout the session with the help of local journalist Jerry Redfern.

Well, the reporter from nonprofit news outlet Capital and Maine is back tonight with his first installment, a conversation with Missy Courier, President and CEO of the New Mexico Oil and Gas Association.

>> Jerry: Missi Currier, President and CEO of the New Mexico Oil and Gas Association.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

>> Currier: Yes, thank you, Jerry, for having me.

I'm glad to be here and I look forward to our conversation.

>> Jerry: Yeah.

Me too.

So let's let's start off sort of easy like, you know, what is the program hoping for this particular legislative session?

I mean, what bills are you hoping to see come up, or are you expecting to see come up?

>> Currier: You know, we're really excited about this session and the possibility of what could come from it.

First, we would love to see the Reclamation Fund pass, a bill recently filed by representative Mark Murphy and Representative Debbie.

Sarenana would refund the reclamation fund, the oil and gas companies have actually been paying a conservation tax on every single oil barrel of oil produced in the state of New Mexico since the 70s, and a percentage of that conservation tax has gone to the Reclamation Fund.

What the Reclamation Fund does is if a bad actor or a bad company of some sort goes out of business and they didn't, they didn't clean up their well and they didn't reclamate the land.

The Reclamation Fund is there, which is funded by oil and gas, to ensure that the land can be returned back to its native state.

The Reclamation Fund does have a lot of money in it right now, not only from the oil and gas companies that are paying directly into it, but also some federal funds.

But we'd really like to see the Reclamation Fund beefed back up, and ensuring that the full percentages going into the Reclamation Fund.

A few years ago, some of the funding was lost from that because it was pulled from the Reclamation Fund into the general fund.

So just making sure that those dollars are going back for their original intent is something we're excited about.

>> Jerry: Yeah.

So I was looking at that bill again, and I had a question for you, actually, since I'm guessing you're going to know this pretty well so that oil and gas conservation tax, that oil and gas producers pay, that goes to a couple of different things though, doesn't it?

It goes to the Reclamation Fund, but it doesn't.

Also part of that go to the operation of the oil and gas or the oil conservation division.

>> Currier: It does.

It helps there.

And there's also funds there to help with education about energy throughout the state.

Right.

So we're primarily focused on the reclamation side of it and not changing where the rest of the dollars are.

>> Jerry: But it from what I read the bill, it's said that currently about 20% of that conservation tax goes to the Reclamation Fund, but that's to bump to 50% next year, or 75% in 2028 and 100% in 2029, which means all of that conservation tax now will be going to reclamation.

Yes.

But what about the moneys that previously went to the oil conservation division or the education?

And just for our listeners at home, the oil conservation division is kind of the main policing body for the oil and gas industry in the state.

So it almost kind of looks a bit like a defunding action there.

>> Currier: Not a defunding, just a shifting of the funds.

We have worked with the oil conservation division, and I believe Representative Murphy, as well as Representative Sarinana, are having conversations with their fellow legislators to better understand how we can ensure that O.C.D.

doesn't lose any money for the purposes that they're in place for, because we want a fully funded agency.

That's incredibly important for a lot of reasons, and that's one of the reasons that there is a stair step in that bill.

So that we can incrementally work our way into not losing money from OCD and ensuring other dollars are there to backfill it.

And parts of the original legislation, you might have seen that the shift would have happened right away.

This legislation allows for the stair steps so that those dollars don't go anywhere.

>> Jerry: So then where is the makeup funding going to come from for the oil conservation division?

>> Currier: So that will come.

Of course, the appropriators will take a look at how they best what to fund from the general fund.

And there might be dollars that are shifted around there to ensure that there is not a loss of funding.

And, of course, we all hope that production stays high so that the state can continue to enjoy higher profits so that the dollars are there.

>> Jerry: Okay.

So you're thinking that the funding would actually come from the general fund instead of from the automatic taxation that comes in currently?

I just want to make sure that I have that clear.

>> Currier: That is clear.

And as you know, M.N.R.D and OCD are funded through the general fund and other places like the Rec fund.

So we do anticipate that the general fund can absorb any dollars that are being shifted around knowing that that's the purpose of the general fund.

>> Jerry: Okay.

So next question I have is last session, it came up a lot, both in advertising and in other places, and from legislators themselves, mostly on the right side of the aisle, that the oil and gas industry was out of favor in New Mexico and out of favor with the New Mexico Legislature.

But at the same time, last year, we had the oil and gas stay at the House, which passed unanimously in favor of the oil and gas industry.

And honestly, for the last several years, very, very few regulatory changes that would affect the oil and gas industry have passed, much less made it out of committee hearings.

I'm wondering why you say that it is out of favor somehow.

>> Currier: You know, it's, last session we worked on 30 bills that would have had a direct and negative impact to oil and gas and ultimately the state of New Mexico.

We understand that when we are one of the largest industries in the state, there will always be a large focus on us.

We appreciate that.

And we understand that what we do get frustrated by is because of the legislative and regulatory burden that we're constantly facing.

It's often feels as if we're fighting a battle, as opposed to finding ways to collaborate to move the state forward.

And that's something that's incredibly frustrating for our industry.

>> Jerry: Okay, I get that.

But you essentially won.

You say there were 30 bills roughly that came up last session that you were fighting against, and I think there were maybe two that perhaps passed.

And I think I'm being a little generous there.

I mean, do you have an extremely strong track record?

The oil and gas industry has an extremely strong track record of keeping those sorts of bills from passing.

I don't know, I should say keeping them from passing, but they don't pass.

>> Currier: We can certainly have detractors, but that doesn't mean that we're always losing.

>> Jerry: I'm okay.

Well, let's put it this way.

So the next thing was that back on Tuesday, Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham, in her state of the state, speech, was calling for sort of working across the aisle, people working together.

And I have to admit, I was a little surprised.

Just minutes less than an hour after she finished her speech, I got an email in my inbox from denoga.

saying that Santa Fe needs a reality check.

And I was kind of surprised by this.

And I'm wondering what the reality check is that you're talking about here.

Considering has just said that you know, you actually have a pretty good track record of getting what you want passed, passed what you don't want passed, not passed.

What is the reality check that you think Santa Fe is missing?

>> Currier: We are, and we're very proud of this.

But New Mexico is currently the number one emission reducing state in the country.

That's really cool.

That's something that we should all be proud of.

But it also means that we are one of the worst states for education.

We're one of the worst states for crime.

We're one of the worst states for health care.

So when there continues to be an incredibly large focus on industry, when we're doing our part, we just want to continue to remind our legislators and others that there are big problems in this state that we would hope that we would focus on and find bipartisan ways to move those forward without it constantly being a battle over the industry.

That does so much for the state, not only economically, but even environmentally.

>> Jerry: Yeah, I think most legislators actually truly appreciate the money that comes in from industry, they say.

So I have to believe what they say sometimes at least.

But to to back up a bit, you know, it's a funny thing.

I just happened to come across a study yesterday by a group called the rhodium Group, which is a big international group that tracks energy production across the planet, but particularly here in the United States.

And September of last year, they came out with a big study, state by state, showing greenhouse gas emissions across sectors.

And it was very clear that actually greenhouse gas emissions from the oil and gas industry in New Mexico have dramatically increased between 2020 and through the end of 2024 and projected up through 2028.

So I'm not sure where the idea that emissions are reducing come from.

I mean, the numbers that they had were 2024 megatons of CO2 emissions in 2020, 41 megatons released in 2025.

And again, these sorts of numbers are reflected in emissions that have been tracked here in the Permian Basin in New Mexico.

So I'm not sure that's quite accurate.

>> Currier: Well, I haven't seen the study, Jerry.

And if you have time, please send it to us because I'd like to look it over.

But what I can speak to is since 2020, production has actually increased in New Mexico.

So with an increase of production, of course there might be an increase of emissions.

We've also found ways to further diversify the economy in the Permian.

We also have several other industries that also have emission emitters.

Even Bernalillo County, for example, can have emissions that sometimes make them look just as bad as the Permian.

So with that in mind, I'm very proud of the companies and the work that they're doing.

As you know, the governor's executive order that came out in 2019 that says that 98% of gas has to be captured at the wellhead.

All of that had all of those changes have to take place by 2027.

And over 95% of our companies are already achieving that a year ahead of the goal.

There's been several studies done that shows that while emissions in production are up in the Permian, it also shows that emissions are coming down, especially on the New Mexico side, because of innovations in technology.

So are there emissions?

Yes, because we live in an industrial society.

But that certainly doesn't mean that vast improvements haven't been made and that they and that our companies do better each and every day to ensure that we're doing the best that we can.

Okay.

>> Jeff: Well, I will just point out again the study from the rhodium Group.

So that's just one.

Another one is actually numbers collected by the New Mexico Environment Department at their air monitoring stations in the Permian Basin, and by other groups that have worked on their that show, at the very least, flat emissions or problems with ozone in that region or increasing that's been going on for at least a half dozen years or more.

We'll leave it there.

We apparently disagree on this.

So you only thing that I'll end with there is that, as Secretary Kenney has said, so many of the reports that he's showing are the numbers are improving in the Permian.

So let's visit more when we've got time to compare reports and see if we can get more on the same page.

I'm happy to have that conversation.

>> Jerry: Okay, so, last question I think we have here and we're bumping up against time.

Your ads regularly tout, the amount of money that oil and gas industry pays toward the state economy.

Emphasis on education and child welfare.

But I think we can both agree that burning these same fossil fuels leads to a warmer climate for those kids in the future, and more difficult times for them to live in.

So how do you square that particular circle of oil and gas industry?

Yes.

Helping pay for things in the state that help kids, but at the same time make it more difficult down the line.

>> Currier: I don't think it's a circle to square.

I think it's very obvious that technology, science and innovation are the answer to that question.

We will absolutely get to an energy transition one day and we are working toward that.

But to get to an energy transition, you must first go through an energy expansion.

We believe in oil and responsible oil and gas production.

We know that, renewables like wind and solar and others are going to be incredibly important.

And with the demands that we have on the electric grid right now, which are continuing to grow, we need all of those energies to ensure that New Mexico remains a stable place to live, work and play.

So will we transition from oil and gas one day?

Yes.

Is it going to happen in our lifetime?

Probably not.

And Intel Innovation, technology and science allows us to move completely away from oil and gas.

We will continue to produce in affordable, reliable and sustainable ways.

>> Jerry: Okay, I kind of hear what you're saying.

Unfortunately, we have to wrap up.

We've gone a bit past our time.

I will make a quick note that I tend to think that if you say things not going to happen, it probably won't happen.

It will be more difficult for it to happen.

So I'd like to say that perhaps in our lifetime things will change in that way, but I guess that will be another discussion for another day.

Missi Currier of Nemelga, thank you so much for taking the time.

>> Currier: Thank you, I appreciate you.

>> Nash: Thank you to State Oil and Gas Association President and CEO Missy Currier and Capital and Maine reporter Jerry Redfern.

You can expect more from him on the oil and gas front next week.

Earlier this hour, you heard Republican Senator Bill Sharer throw some praise the governor's way.

Her public safety ideas are among those that he and other Republicans like.

But Sharer thinks those proposals need to go further.

And when it comes to her push to ban assault weapons, Sharer says that is a definite no go.

>> Sharer: A significant portion of our crime problem in New Mexico today is cartels.

We're not selling assault weapons to cartels through our through our local gun dealers.

No, they're selling to us.

The cartels make so much money in New Mexico that if they wanted to buy a tank, they could buy a tank.

And they're not going to do that through the FFL's.

And so it's amazing to me that she thinks by picking on legitimate New Mexico businesses, that somehow that's going to solve the crime problem.

Absolutely wrong.

Same with the assault weapons ban that only helps the cartels.

That does not help any citizen of New Mexico.

And it's absurd that we would even go down that path.

We want to make sure that we are helping all of the law enforcement do the right thing for us.

It needs to be the municipalities.

It needs to be the counties, but it also needs to be the federal government.

Right now, the cartels are a big part of our crime problem in New Mexico, and they truly can.

They make so much money.

They truly can buy any weapon they want.

They can outgun us immediately by the meaning the cities of the state.

And so we need the federal government to help us with that.

That's important.

She did mention one of the things that was been changed.

Pretrial detention.

We used to have pretrial detention.

If you were a threat or perceived to be a threat, we held you until the trial.

But it was the Democrats that did away with that and crime skyrocketing.

So she's come back to us with that pretrial detention.

Keep the bad guys off the street.

It's just that simple.

If they're not on the street, they're not causing trouble for anybody.

>> Nash: In recent years, as noted there by Senator Sharer the Democratic governor has found herself on the opposite side of the political aisle, joining a chorus of state Republicans in her push for tougher public safety policies.

In her state of the state address, Lujan Grisham reiterated her hardline stance on public safety, one that's found plenty of disagreement in her own party.

Returning back to my conversation with Senate Majority Leader Peter Wirth.

I asked him where he stands on a few high profile proposals, including Senate Democrats shift to supporting a ban on ICE contracts for immigrant prisons in our state.

>> Nash: You told the Santa Fe business community recently that your caucus is on board with a proposal to ban ice contracts for immigrant prisons in New Mexico.

We have three of them.

That proposal passed the House last year and stalled in the Senate.

So what's changed?

>> Wirth: So I think what changed the big thing is that Senator Cervantes, who is the chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, from Las Cruces, also the chair of the courts Corrections Interim Committee, held hearings, on this issue over the summer.

And I think he's changed his position.

He is now a sponsor, a primary sponsor has signed on to the House bill with four other, House members.

And so, again, that was a big shift.

We've had this bill that's been around for a number of years.

They actually it came to the floor one year and failed.

>> Nash: Right.

>> Wirth: So it's something that again, given what we're seeing.

>> Nash: Is the current landscape and what we're seeing and, the killing of Renee Good, is that part of what's driving this?

>> Wirth: I think and I said this in the paper and again, we've reached a point where I would say it's a tipping point.

And I think, again, folks looking at that just can't believe what you're seeing.

And the videos are such that certainly for me, I question what what in the world we've come to that we've gone to this level and now we have 1500 troops apparently lined up ready to go into Minnesota.

I just think it's an important signal to send that New Mexico doesn't want to be in this business.

>> Nash: A high on the governor's priority list is further funding for universal child care.

>> Grisham: More kids and high quality care, more providers and childcare centers across the state, training and support for childcare workers and educators, a permanent fund and trust fund that guarantee their impact.

A constitutional amendment that etched our promise into law.

We're not just making progress, we're building a system focused on child well-being.

Changing lives a foundation for a financially secure future.

A legacy that New Mexico families can count on.

And again, it's a blueprint that the rest of America can and should follow.

And now I'm asking you for $160 million recurring increase for universal child care, to cement our legacy as a state of generational opportunity instead of a state with generational poverty.

>> Nash: The Legislative Finance Committee has proposed far less than that.

Where do you stand on funding for universal childcare?

>> Wirth: So I hope we can find a way to get there.

It may not all be recurring.

Again, we've been very creative.

The governor also touted our bond rating going up.

One of the reasons the bond rating has gone up is because we've taken non-recurring money, put it into these funds, and then we're able to spend over a number of years using non-recurring money.

It's called the Grow Fund.

And I think you could see some piece of this done out of that.

You also, we have an early childhood fund that's at $10 billion.

And so I'm confident that when we get around the table, we can come up with something that that gets us where we need to go.

I thought it was powerful.

Her speech today.

And I think it's a powerful message that New Mexico is sent to the country on this issue.

So I'm hopeful we can get there.

And that's going to be another one of those around the table.

>> Nash: And when you say get there, universal for everybody accessible no matter somebody's income.

>> Wirth: Yeah I mean I think that's certainly the program that's been rolled out.

And I do think again, at what the guardrails are, what the timing is, all those questions will be brought up.

And we've got to figure out how to do it.

>> Nash: The governor said in her speech that she has been pushing for years for more backbone around public saftey proposals.

>> Grisham: Communities are coming together and talking about a public safety agenda.

And frankly, I've asked for more backbone by all of us, not just legislators.

Every elected official, every community leader.

If anyone tells you we've done enough to rein in violent crime, ask them if they would say that to a family made smaller by violence.

When they say it to the parents trying to protect their kids, would they say it to the children who've lost someone they love?

Because we refuse to keep dangerous criminals behind bars?

I don't think they would, and we shouldn't.

Why don't we have pretrial detention like the federal model that keeps suspects charged with violent crimes behind bars while they wait, trial, await trial, and protect our communities from violent predators who destroy lives, families and communities.

It's a real issue and an epidemic, and it requires us to lean in.

And I'm hoping that you will do that.

>> Nash: Your caucus hasn't always seen eye to eye with her ideas of how to get that done.

But I can't imagine that you would say it's been an issue of resolve in your chambers.

How did you react to the idea that it's a backbone issue in part.

>> Wirth: Well, I appreciated her saying and recognizing all the work we have done.

I actually went back before some of the town halls.

We've passed over 62 penalty increases during this administration.

So this is an issue we have constantly been working on.

And but at the same time trying to do it right.

There are some big kind of, I think, nonstarter.

Her attempt to undo the constitutional amendments.

Adjust or change the standard there.

I think there's constitutional problems with that.

I also focus on the fact that she was targeting dangerous defendants, which is exactly what the constitutional amendment does.

It creates a process to hold those that are dangerous, pretrial.

>> Nash: And that's something that voters overwhelmingly approved.

>> Wirth: And that's exactly right.

And before that passed, again, we had a system where a very dangerous defendant who had access to money would be out on the street.

So again, she was focusing on the dangerous defendants.

I mean, I think we will look at these proposals, do them one step at a time.

Some probably are nonstarters.

That's one for me.

That's a nonstarter.

I know the felon in possession is one.

I think we've increased the penalty five times during her administration.

She wants another increase.

I know that's one that's been around a while.

>> Nash: Is that a nonstarter?

>> Wirth: It's a tough one for me.

So again, I don't think that's the direction we'll go, but there's some other.

>> Nash: Where might there be some agreement between the legislature and the governor?

>> Wirth: Yeah, I think that her work on the commitment issue, we did criminal competency, the civil commitment, we've talked about that.

I think that's certainly going to be one.

There's a human trafficking bill.

I definitely want to look at.

And we kind of take it one step at a time.

Just remind all the viewers 30 day sessions.

Basically, unless a bill is given a message, it's not germane.

And so we're going to have a whole scramble to get bills introduced, get messages down and kind of line them up.

And then 30 days is a short period of time.

>> Jones: Some things could even just time out.

>> Wirth: Absolutely.

I mean, you're going to see a ton of health care bills.

I mean, I think we just introduced 14 health, 13 health care bills, all the priority bills.

So the health committee is going to be extremely busy.

And then, you know, committees get backed up.

And yeah it's tough.

30 days is a short period of time.

Yeah.

No doubt.

>> Nash: Yeah, no doubt.

Is there anything else that was on the that is on the governor's wish list?

This is her last regular session in office.

Is there anything else that you see as probably getting, a little sticky or not getting through that?

She really wants to see you in her last session.

>> Wirth: Yeah, that's a good question.

I was encouraged with her focus on structured literacy.

I know there's some there's some math proficiency bills, things of that nature which I support.

Some of those have gotten held up in the house.

So we'll see what happens on those.

I'll certainly be watching those, but I'm going into this session kind of feeling confident.

New Mexico is in an amazing place given our budget situation.

Our friends in Colorado are looking at $1 billion shortfall.

They got the president cutting all their childcare funding.

And yet we're in a place where we're starting with additional recurring money and then these buckets of non-recurring money that helps a bunch.

We had two successful special sessions.

I think being able to backfill health care premium cuts that are happening in Washington for New Mexicans was a huge deal.

And of course, snap food for 460,000 New Mexicans.

Just the fact that we came together bipartisan votes, to make that happen kind of gave us some momentum going in and back to where we started.

I think that doing this work up front, we'll have some victories right out of the gate.

And so that also sets the tone.

It's crazy to think it's only two weeks, you know, that we're looking at.

But that will be the middle of the session.

And I'm hopeful that we've got a big signing ceremony like we did in the 60 day session halfway through and just accomplishments and then get down to the hard work of the final pieces.

>> Nash: We'll be watching.

Leader Wirth, thank you so much.

>> Wirth: Absolutely.

>> Nash: Thanks once more to Senator Wirth, and a special thanks to our crew for their work in Santa Fe this week and for the remainder of the session.

Before we go, I am going to throw in another plug for the NMIF newsletter.

In addition to a link and descriptions of each segment, we use the space for some pretty decent writing if I did say so myself, you can subscribe to it at nmpbs.org.

And be sure to join us for more reporting from the Roundhouse and other stories next week, for New Mexico PBS, I'm Nash Jones until then, stay focused.

>> Funding for New Mexico in Focus is provided by: viewers like you.