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♪♪ ♪♪ >>> SHARPEN YOUR PENCILS AND CALL UP THE ACTUARIES, IT'S BUDGET SEASON IN NEW JERSEY.

HI, EVERYBODY, THIS IS "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE," I'M DAVID CRUZ.

OUR PANEL THIS WEEK HAD TO PASS A MATH TEST TO GET ON.

CARLY SIT RIHN, THE EDUCATION REPORTER FOR "POLITICO" NJ, DANIELLE MUNOZ IS THE BUSINESS REPORTER FOR THE NETWORK, "USA TODAY" NETWORK AND JOHN REITMEYER IS THE BUDGET AND FINANCE WRITER FOR "NJ SPOTLIGHT NEWS."

>>> GOVERNOR MURPHY UNVEILED HIS $48.9 BILLION BUDGET THIS WEEK INDOORS IN FRONT OF A LIVE AUDIENCE WHICH INCLUDED OUR GUEST THIS WEEK, HE IS THE REPUBLICAN SENATOR FROM MONMOUTH COUNTY, WE WELCOME DECLAN O'SCANLON BACK TO "REPORTERS ROUNDTABLE."

SENATOR, HOW ARE YOU DOING?

>> I'VE GOT A VERY UNFASHIONABLE COLD THIS WEEK.

NO COVID, BUT IT'S IRRITATING AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THAT.

>> THAT'S SO OLD FASHIONED, YOU HAVE AN ACTUAL COLD.

>> IT IS.

YOU KNOW, I'M A TRENDSETTER, I'M BRINGING BACK THE -- >> BRINGING BACK THE COMMON COLD.

>> YEAH.

>> SO YOU ARE ON THE JOINT BUDGET OVERSIGHT COMMITTEE, THE BUDGET AND APPROPRIATIONS COMMITTEE, THE JOINT COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SCHOOLS AND LAW AND PUBLIC SAFETY.

YOU ARE TOUCHING ALL PARTS OF THIS STATE BUDGET.

>> ALMOST MAKES ME SOUND POWERFUL AND IMPORTANT.

ALMOST.

ALMOST.

>> RIGHT.

SO YOU WERE IN THE CHAMBER TUESDAY FOR THE GOVERNOR'S SPEECH.

DID IT JUST FEEL ANY DIFFERENT BEING IN THE ROOM WITH ALL THOSE PEOPLE FOR AN EVENT LIKE THAT?

>> WELL, LOOK, WE'VE BEEN THERE.

THE SENATE HAS BEEN BACK FOR MANY MONTHS.

>> RIGHT.

>> IT WAS THE -- YOU KNOW, MY GOOD FRIENDS, BUT CRAZY PARANOID FRIENDS IN THE ASSEMBLY THAT WERE STILL OUT AND IN THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE.

THE GOVERNOR'S FOLKS ARE STILL GOING THROUGH THIS RIDICULOUS MASK THEATER.

SO THEY'RE IN A MEETING AND HALF THE PEOPLE -- TWO-THIRDS OF THE PEOPLE DON'T HAVE MASKS, ONE-THIRD HAS THEM BECAUSE THE GOVERNOR'S OFFICE IS STILL MANDATING IT.

IT'S RIDICULOUS.

BUT IT WAS GOOD TO BE THERE, LOOK, I LIKE THE GOVERNOR, I DISAGREE WITH HIM ON MANY THINGS.

IT WAS GOOD TO SEE EVERYONE AND IT'S NICE TO FINALLY BE FEELING LIKE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE THE GLORIOUS SPRING AND SUMMER WE ALL HAVE EARNED OVER THIS PAST FEW YEARS.

SO IT'S REALLY NICE.

>> SO WHAT DID YOU HEAR THAT YOU LIKED AND WHAT DID YOU HEAR THAT YOU DIDN'T LIKE?

>> LOOK -- >> TELL US WHAT YOU LIKED, GET THAT ANSWER OUT OF THE WAY QUICK.

>> IT'S ALWAYS BETTER TO HAVE MORE MONEY THAN YOU PLANNED ON SPENDING THAN LESS, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE LESS YOU'RE MAKING MAJOR CUTS AND HURTING PEOPLE.

PEOPLE DEPEND ON THE STATE BUDGET.

SO HAVING MORE MONEY IS ALWAYS BETTER THAN HAVING LESS MONEY.

SO I LIKE THAT.

BUT WHY DO WE HAVE THE MONEY AND HOW ARE WE GOING TO SPEND IT IS -- OR ARE WE GOING TO GIVE IT BACK ARE THE REAL QUESTIONS.

THE GOVERNOR HAS A HABIT OF HOARDING MONEY, ACTUALLY, OF DELAYING IT AND ONLY PARSING IT OUT SLOWLY, EVEN IF TIMES WHEN IT'S URGENTLY NEEDED AS WE'VE SEEN OVER THE LAST SEVERAL YEARS.

SO THIS IS MORE OF THE SAME.

WE HAVE A $4.6 BILLION -- I MEAN, IT'S AN OBSCENE AMOUNT OF MONEY -- THAT WE OVERCOLLECTED IN TAXES LAST YEAR.

OVER AND ABOVE WHAT WE BUDGETED FOR, OVER AND ABOVE WHAT THE GOVERNOR'S PROJECTIONS WERE SAYING WE WERE GOING TO COLLECT.

REPUBLICAN PROJECTIONS WERE MUCH CLOSER TO REALITY, BUT EVEN WE WERE WAY OFF.

SO IT'S GOOD TO SEE OUR ECONOMY REBOUNDING, BUT WHEN YOU HAVE A SITUATION LIKE WE HAVE NOW WHERE YOU HAVE MAJOR INFLATION, YOU HAVE PEOPLE HURTING, YOU HAVE GAS PRICES SOARING AND YOU HAVE AN OVERCOLLECTION IN TAXES, THE RIGHT THING TO DO WITH IT IS TO GIVE IT BACK TO THE PEOPLE FROM WHOM YOU TOOK MORE OF THEIR MONEY THAN YOU SHOULD HAVE AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE.

SO YOU HELP THEM AND HELP THE SMALL BUSINESSES THAT ARE STILL STRUGGLING.

>> LET ME GET A COUPLE OF PANEL QUESTIONS IN HERE.

DANIEL, YOU HAD A QUESTION?

>> THANKS FOR JOINING US TODAY.

SO I'M CURIOUS, YOU DID TOUCH ON THIS, BUT I AM CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THE GOVERNOR GOT RIGHT IN THE BUDGET.

A LOT OF THE CRITICISMS I'VE HEARD FROM REPUBLICANS SEEM TO BE MORE SO THAT THIS DOESN'T DO ENOUGH, THIS WASN'T DOING ENOUGH TO REACH GOALS OF AFFORDABILITY AND ECONOMIC PROSPERITY IN THE STATE.

>> WELL, LINE BY LINE, WE HAVE OUR AREAS OF DISAGREEMENT THAT, I GUESS, IT'S NATURAL TO FOCUS ON, THAT'S OUR JOB, RATHER THAN -- RATHER THAN SPEND TIME ON THE, YOU KNOW TENS OF THOUSANDS OF BUDGET LINE ITEMS THAT PERHAPS ARE REASONABLE.

YOU KNOW, I HAVEN'T EVEN GONE THROUGH THE ENTIRE BUDGET YET LINE BY LINE, BUT WE START WITH FOCUS ON THE OBVIOUS AREAS WHERE WE DIFFER.

I'M NOT SURE THERE'S ANY PART OF THE BUDGET THAT, YOU KNOW, SHINES BRIGHTLY.

WE EASILY COULD HAVE, YOU KNOW -- THE GOVERNOR TALKS ABOUT SCHOOL FUNDING AND HOW SCHOOL FUNDING INCREASES OUR PROPERTY TAX CUTS, BUT HE FAILS TO MENTION THAT THE BULK OF INCREASES ARE GOING TO ONE-TENTH OF OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS.

ONLY HALF OF THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE EITHER GETTING CUTS OR GETTING INCREASES THAT DON'T KEEP UP WITH INFLATION.

SO BY HIS OWN MATH HE'S INCREASING PROPERTY TAXES ON MORE THAN HALF OF OUR SCHOOL DISTRICTS, AND PROPERTY TAX PAYERS.

200 DISTRICTS ARE GETTING CUTS THAT COULD EASILY HAVE BEEN AVOIDED.

LOOK, I SLIPPED BACK AWAY FROM YOUR QUESTION INTO WHERE WE DISAGREE, BUT THAT'S WHERE THE FOCUS IS.

I WOULD SUGGEST AMONGST THE LINE ITEMS WE HAVE NOT YET MENTIONED THERE ARE PROBABLY A FEW WE WOULD ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH.

I'M NOT SURE THAT THAT'S PRAISE, BUT THAT'S THE BEST I COULD DO.

>> CARLY, YOU HAD SOMETHING YOU WANT TO ASK HERE.

>> YEAH, A PERFECT SEGUE.

SENATOR, ON SCHOOL AID, I KNOW A SLUE OF REPUBLICAN LAWMAKERS SENT OUT STATEMENTS OPPOSING THE ONGOING S-2 CUTS TO THESE 182 SCHOOL DISTRICTS, SO I WANTED TO ASK YOU IS THERE ANY APPETITE IN THE LEGISLATURE TO PUT MORE MONEY INTO SCHOOL FUNDING OR WHAT IS THE PROPOSED SOLUTION FOR THESE DISTRICTS THAT ARE GETTING CUTS?

>> THANK YOU, CARLY, THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION AND IT'S ONE REPUBLICANS HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT SINCE S-2 WAS PROPOSED AND I ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THERE WERE MANY DISTRICTS THAT FOR A LONG TIME BECAUSE WE FOOLISHLY FROZE THE SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA WERE GETTING MORE MONEY THAN THEY SHOULD HAVE UNDER THE FORMULA.

AND AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO ADDRESS THAT.

S-2, I THINK, DID IT THE WRONG WAY AND DID IT TOO QUICKLY.

BUT EVEN IF S-2 WERE THE RIGHT POLICY, AND I OPPOSED IT AND STILL DO, IT'S UNCONSCIONABLE IN TIMES WHEN THESE SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE STRUGGLING TO HAVE CUTS IN A YEAR WHEN YOU HAVE BILLIONS OF DOLLARS FROM FEDERAL -- WE HAVE $3 BILLION WE HAVE NOT YET EVEN HINTED HOW WE'RE GOING TO SPENT, OR -- AND $4.6 BILLION IN OVERCOLLECTION.

SO, YES, WE WOULD UNDO THOSE CUTS, NO QUESTION.

IT IS UNCONSCIONABLE TO INFLICT THEM NOW WHEN DISTRICTS ARE STRUGGLING, WHEN TAX PAYERS ARE STRUGGLING, THE GOVERNOR IS PARTLY RIGHT, SCHOOL AID DOES TRANSLATE TO AN IMPACT ON PROPERTY TAXES.

WHERE THAT IS BEING CUT OR NOT KEEPING UP WITH INFLATION IT IS GOING TO CAUSE AN INCREASE IN PROPERTY TAXES.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> SO REPUBLICANS ARE ON BOARD, THE QUESTION IS DO THE DEMOCRATS -- ARE THEY WILLING -- WE'RE GOING TO SUGGEST THIS -- THAT WE REWRITE THAT PART OF THE BNLT AND WE UNDO THOSE CUTS.

THEY ALL SHOULD BE UNDONE AT THIS POINT.

>> ALL RIGHT.

LAST ONE, $900 MILLION TAX REBATE FOR MIDDLE CLASS HOMEOWNERS AN RENTERS, FEES WAIVED ON A WHOLE BUNCH OF OTHER STATE SERVICES, NO FARE HIKES ON NJ TRANSIT.

DID THE GOVERNOR AT ANY POINT #GIVE IT BACK?

>> NO.

A PITTANCE, LET'S SAY A PITTANCE.

THE WAIVING OF THE FEES, EVIDENCE, IT'S 60 MILLION BUCKS, DO THAT MATH, IT'S UNDER 7 BUCKS A PERSON.

I WILL BUY A HAPPY MEAL, THANK YOU, GOVERNOR MURPHY.

AS FAR AS THE REBATE PROGRAM GOES, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE WE HEARD THIS BEFORE THAT PROPERTY TAX -- A NEW PROPERTY TAX REBATE PROGRAM.

I WILL TELL YOU IT WAS FIVE AND THEY ALL WERE GARBAGE AT THE END OF THE DAY.

FIRST THINGS CUT, GIVE ME A BREAK.

WE HAVE $4.6 MILLION RIGHT NOW OR WE'RE SCHEDULED TO HAVE THE NEXT COUPLE MONTHS.

GO I HAVE IT BACK.

THE GOVERNOR WOULD GIVE AN EXTRA $500 MILLION, 15 MONTHS FROM NOW YOU DON'T SEE THAT UNTIL SPRING OF 2023.

PEOPLE ARE STRUGGLING NOW.

PEOPLE ARE BEING CRUSHED BY INCREASES IN GAS PRICES, BEING CRUSHED BY INFLATION.

IT'S THEIR MONEY.

REPUBLICAN PROPOSAL WOULD RESPONSIBLY GIVE UP TO $1,000, AROUND $1,000 PER HOUSEHOLD ACROSS THE BOARD AND STILL LEAVE MONEY ON THE TABLE TO INCREASE OUR SURPLUS MARGINALLY, THIS IS NOT A TIME WHEN YOU WANT TO BE DRAMATICALLY INCREASING YOUR SURPLUS.

>> I'M GOING TO HAVE TO LEAVE IT THERE.

SENATOR, I KNOW YOU LOVE TO TALK BUDGETS BUT WE'VE RUN OUT OF TIME, DECLAN O'SCANLON, THANKS FOR COMING ON.

HOPE YOU FEEL BETTER >> THANKS, DAVID.

I APPRECIATE T GOOD SEEING EVERYONE.

>>> LET'S WELCOME IN OUR PANEL, CARLY, DANIEL, JOHN.

JOHN, THIS IS BUDGET AND FINANCE WRITER WEEK, MY FRIEND.

STOP ME IF YOU'VE HEARD THIS ONE BEFORE, WHAT ARE YOUR BIG TAKE A WAYS FROM THIS BUDGET?

>> IT'S A BIG BUDGET, FIRST OF ALL.

I MEAN, RECORD SPENDING, THE BIGGEST NUMBERS WE HAVE SEEN IN A REALLY LONG TIME AS THE SENATOR WAS JUST REFERRING TO, WE'RE HAVING A BIG SURGE IN TAX REVENUE AND THAT ALLOWS LAWMAKERS TO DO THINGS THAT THEY HAVEN'T REALLY BEEN ABLE TO DO FOR A LONG TIME, WHICH IS ACTUALLY DECIDE WHERE ADDITIONAL REVENUE SHOULD GO INSTEAD OF WHERE CUT BACKS SHOULD BE TAKEN.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, A YEAR OVER YEAR SPENDING INCREASE OF MORE THAN 5%, THAT'S ACTUALLY FAIRLY MODEST FOR GOVERNOR MURPHY IN RECENT YEARS AND REALLY -- AND ACTUALLY LOWER THAN THE YEAR OVER YEAR RATE OF INFLATION RIGHT NOW, BUT STILL ADDS A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF MONEY TO THE BUDGET, YOU KNOW, WITH BIG INCREASES FOR THINGS LIKE SCHOOL FUNDING, FOR THE DIRECT PROPERTY TAX RELIEF YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THAT WILL GO -- THE BIGGEST BENEFITS WILL GO TO PEOPLE WHO ARE MOST LIKELY TO BE ON FIXED INCOMES LIKE SENIORS AND THE DISABLED.

AND SO, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME DEFINITE NOTEWORTHY ELEMENTS TO THIS BUDGET, YOU KNOW, THE SENATOR TALKED ABOUT SURPLUS, THE SIZE OF THE SURPLUS WOULD NEARLY DOUBLE AND THAT'S SOMETHING THAT NEW JERSEY HAS DONE A REALLY POOR JOB OF DOING IN THE PAST, MAINTAINING A VERY THIN SURPLUS ON PRETTY HIGH SPENDING, WHICH MEANS WHEN YOUR REVENUES HAVE SOME SORT OF A HICCUP, YOU HAVE TO MAKE MID-YEAR CUTS AND IN THE PAST WE'VE SEEN THINGS LIKE THAT PROPERTY TAX RELIEF GET CHOPPED OUT OF THE BUDGET BECAUSE THE SURPLUS HAS NOT BEEN ROBUST.

AND THEN THERE'S GOING TO BE AN EFFORT TO PAY DOWN MORE DEBT.

SO, YOU KNOW, SOME NOTEWORTHY THINGS.

I'M A LITTLE SURPRISED THAT REPUBLICANS HAVEN'T TAKEN MORE CREDIT FOR THE INCREASE IN PROPERTY TAX RELIEF.

I THINK IT'S FAIR CRITICISM TO SAY THIS ISN'T GOING TO COME OUT UNTIL NEXT SPRING BECAUSE IT IS A LONG WAY TO WAIT WHEN THE STATE'S COFFERS ARE FLUSH RIGHT NOW.

THEY'VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABILITY FOR QUITE A WHILE AND I'M SURPRISED THEY HAVEN'T SAID WE'VE GOT MURPHY TALK BEING IT NOW AS WELL.

>> CARLY, I THINK I HEARD THE GOVERNOR SAY ALMOST A QUARTER OF THE STATE BUDGET IS DEDICATED TO EDUCATION.

WHAT'S THE SCHOOLS NEWS COMING OUT OF THE BUDGET THIS WEEK?

>> YEAH, SO IT IS THE LARGEST PORTION OF THE BUDGET.

I THINK, YOU KNOW, SEEING REVENUES COME IN HIGHER THAN EXPECTED AND SEEING THE STATE BEING FLUSHED WITH CASH THIS YEAR, THERE WAS SOME SHRED OF HOPE THAT MAYBE THE GOVERNOR WOULD, YOU KNOW, PROPOSE FULLY FUNDING THE SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA THIS YEAR.

THAT IS NOT THE CASE.

HE'S DECIDED TO CONTINUE ON YEAR FIVE OF THIS SEVEN-YEAR PHASE IN OF GETTING TO FULL FUNDING.

SO THE IDEA IS, YOU KNOW, WE WILL GET THERE BY, YOU KNOW, TWO YEARS FROM NOW.

WHAT THAT MEANS IN PRACTICE IS 182 SCHOOL DISTRICTS ARE GOING TO SEE THEIR SCHEDULED CUTS FOR THIS YEAR.

I MEAN, THEY WERE TOLD TO EXPECT THEM BECAUSE IT'S BEEN GOING ON FOR THE PAST FIVE YEARS UNDER THIS S-2 REDISTRIBUTION OF AID, BUT STILL IN A TEACHER SHORTAGE I THINK A LOT OF DISTRICTS WERE KIND OF HOPING THAT MAYBE THERE WOULD BE MORE HUNDRED IN THE BUDGET FOR THEM THIS YEAR AND THAT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.

AT THE SAME TIME -- AND THIS IS SOMETHING SENATOR O'SCANLON MENTIONED, TOO -- THERE'S GOING TO BE A LOT MORE BEHIND THE SCENES NEGOTIATING, IT'S GOING TO BE AN INTERESTING KIND OF POLITICAL THING TO WATCH AS FORMER SENATE PRESIDENT STEVE SCALISE IS NO LONGER IN HIS POSITION AND THE GOVERNOR SEEMS TO HAVE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A BETTER RELATIONSHIP WITH THE NEW SENATE PRESIDENT SO IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE KIND OF WHAT THINGS CHANGE AND HOW -- YOU KNOW, WHETHER OR NOT THE CUTS ARE SOFTENED IN THE LEGISLATURE'S PROVOST BUDGET OR WHETHER EVERYONE AGREES THAT IT'S, QUOTE, THE RESPONSIBLE THING TO DO TO JUST CONTINUE ON THE SEVEN-YEAR PLAN.

>> DANIEL, CONGRATS ON THE NEW GIG.

WATCH OUT FOR CHARLIE STYLE, THOSE GUYS ARE A REALLY BAD INFLUENCE.

HOW IS IT GOING OVER THERE SO FAR, SERIOUSLY?

>> THINGS ARE GOOD.

WROTE ABOUT A GOOD THING ABOUT INFLATION, GOOD TIMES.

>> GOOD TIMES.

>> YEAH.

>> I ALWAYS WATCH THIS SPEECH FOR SIGNALS.

WHAT WAS THE REACTION FROM THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY TO THIS?

>> I THINK IT'S SIMILAR TO THE REPUBLICAN REACTION THAT THERE'S NOT ENOUGH BEING DONE, THE UNEMPLOYMENT TAX HIKES THAT ARE BEING PASSED ON TO BUSINESSES, THEY SAY THAT ARP MONEY OF THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION'S FEDERAL COVID RELIEF NEEDS TO BE GOING TOWARDS THAT.

THERE NEEDS TO BE MORE DIRECT RELIEF, DIRECT MONEY TO THE BUSINESSES NOW SO THEY CAN OFFSET THE PRICE INCREASES OF INFLATION ACROSS THE BOARD.

AND BUSINESS OWNERS, BUSINESS COMMUNITY AND ADVOCATES THAT I TALK TO DON'T FEEL LIKE THAT'S REALLY BEING DONE, ANYTHING TO SHIELD BUSINESSES AND THEIR CUSTOMERS AND THEIR WORKERS FROM THE INCREASED COST OF LIVING, INCREASED INFLATION.

>> THEY ALSO DIDN'T GET ANY HELP ON THE UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE PAYMENT.

THEY WANTED THE STATE TO PICK THAT UP, BUT SO FAR IT'S STILL ON THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY, RIGHT?

>> RIGHT.

YEAH.

SO WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING, WHAT'S BEING PROPOSED BY A NUMBER OF PEOPLE OF LAWMAKERS AND BUSINESS ADVOCATES IS THAT ARP MONEY RATHER THAN BUSINESSES PAY THE TAX INCREASE TO REFILL THE UNEMPLOYMENT TRUST FUND, WHICH IS REALLY DRAINED DURING COVID, THOSE ARE TAX INCREASES FOR BUSINESSES, MURPHY AND I THINK SWEENEY HAS SAID TO THAT THE MONEY NEEDED TO REFILL THE UNEMPLOYMENT TRUST FUND, WOULD EAT INTO BASICALLY ALL THE MONEY THAT NEW JERSEY GOT FROM THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION SO THAT'S NOT REALLY FEASIBLE.

I THINK BUSINESSES STILL THINK THERE IS A CHANCE TO GET SOME OF THAT MONEY FROM THE ARP ALLOCATION TO GO TO GIVE RELIEF TO BUSINESSES.

>> THE GOVERNOR PAINTS A PRETTY ROSY PICTURE OF THE STATE'S ECONOMY, MILLIONAIRES UP, ECONOMIC ACTIVITY UP FROM THE BOTTOM 4 TO THE TOP 4 IN THE COUNTRY, VENTURE CAPITAL WAY UP.

ARE THINGS REALLY LIKE THAT IN JERSEY, DANIEL?

>> I THINK SORT OF THE CRITICISM I HEARD IS THAT IT'S EASY TO SAY THE ECONOMY IS DOING GOOD IF YOU TAKE A SNAPSHOT OF LIKE NUMBERS DURING ANY PARTICULAR QUARTER.

IT'S REALLY HARD TO SAY WHETHER ANY PARTICULAR GOVERNOR'S ECONOMIC POLICIES ARE GOING TO PAY OFF DURING THEIR TERM.

REALLY THESE THINGS TAKE MANY, MANY YEARS.

SO IT'S REAL EASY TO CHERRY PICK ANY KIND OF STATS THAT BUILD YOUR CASE THAT THE ECONOMY IS DOING GOOD OR THIS PARTICULAR FINANCIAL SECTOR ISN'T DOING GOOD, THEREFORE, WE NEED TO DO THIS KIND OF POLICY.

SO I THINK ANY OF THOSE -- SOME OF THE POINTS THAT HE RAISED SHOULD BE TAKEN WITH A GRAIN OF SALT.

>> ONE OF HIS BECOME BIG ANNOUNCEMENT WAS THIS $900 MILLION TAX REBATE FOR HOMEOWNERS, THE SO-CALLED ANCHOR PROGRAM.

JOHN, YOU AND OTHERS HAVE CAST A KIND OF SKEPTICAL EYE TOWARDS THESE KINDS OF THINGS BECAUSE THEY ARE A LITTLE LIKE COTTON CANDY, RIGHT?

THEY'RE SWEET BUT SOON DISSOLVE SOMETIMES.

>> YEAH, I WOULDN'T COUNT MYSELF IN THAT -- IN THAT GROUP.

ACTUALLY, I'VE BEEN DIGGING INTO THE NUMBERS AND I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, PROS AND CONS WHEN THE STATE TRIES TO ADDRESS HIGH PROPERTY TAXES WITH PROGRAMS SUCH AS THESE, BUT THE WAY -- AND THIS IS REALLY THE HOMESTEAD PROGRAM THAT WOULD BE CONTINUED, MURPHY IS REBRANDING IT, BUT THE CURRENT ARCHITECTURE OF THE HOMES IN THE PROGRAM WOULD BE CARRIED ON AND IT WILL DIRECT THE BIGGEST DIRECT CREDIT, SO THESE HAVE BEEN DISPARAGED AS GIMMICKS IN THE PAST BUT A REFORM OF A DECADE OR TWO AGO TURNED THESE INTO DIRECT CREDITS ON QUARTERLY TAX BILLS.

IT DOES EFFECTIVELY LOWER THE TAX BILL OF A RECIPIENT IN THE YEAR -- OR IN THE QUARTER IN WHICH THAT CREDIT SHOWS UP.

SO THE WAY THAT IT'S STRUCTURED IS THE BIGGEST CHECKS WILL GO TO SENIOR AND DISABLED HOMEOWNERS MAKING UNDER $100,000, THOSE MOST LIKELY TO BE ON FIXED INCOMES WHO GET HIT THE HARDEST BY INCREASES IN PROPERTY TAXES AND WOULD PROBABLY BE MOST AT RISK OF, YOU KNOW, LOSING THEIR HOME IF THEY CAN'T KEEP PACE WITH THEIR PROPERTY TAX BILL.

SO, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY WHEN YOU DO THIS THROUGH THE STATE BUDGET IT'S SUBJECT TO THE WHIMS OF THE REVENUE CYCLE, SO IN YEARS WHEN REVENUES ARE UP YOU CAN DO THINGS LIKE THAT.

THE QUESTION WAS ALWAYS BEEN SUSTAINABILITY.

OVER A DECADE AGO JON CORZINE TRIED TO PUMP UP THE MONEY FOR THE HOMESTEAD PROGRAM AND IT LASTED FOR ABOUT A YEAR BECAUSE THE GREAT RESCISSION HIT AND TOOK THAT MONEY AWAY.

INCOME LIMITS WERE SLASHED AND RENTERS' CHECKS WERE TAKEN AWAY.

I THINK THESE TYPES OF PROGRAMS ARE WELL-MEANING AND WHEN THEY'RE STRUCTURED IN THE WAY THAT THEY CURRENTLY ARE WHERE THE BIGGEST CHECKS GO TO THOSE WHO PROBABLY NEED THE MOST RELIEF, I THINK THERE'S ACADEMIC RESEARCH THAT SUGGESTS THAT CAN BE EFFECTIVE, THE QUESTION IS ALWAYS SUSTAINABILITY AND WHETHER YOU CAN SUSTAIN FUNDING FOR PROGRAMS LIKE THIS AT THE LEVELS THAT'S BEING PROPOSED AND, YOU KNOW, MURPHY IS SAYING THAT THIS SHOULD BE THE FIRST IN A THREE-YEAR EXPANSION.

SO WE WOULD GET UP TO ABOUT A BILLION AND A HALF.

IT WILL BE NEARLY $900 MILLION IN THE BUDGET IF IT'S ACCEPTED BY LAWMAKERS.

HE WANTS THAT TO EVENTUALLY GET UP TO $1.5 BILLION.

SO, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME QUESTIONS FOR SURE ABOUT THIS, BUT, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY IF IT RETAINS THE CURRENT STRUCTURE THAT MURPHY IS CALLING FOR, WHICH, AGAIN, PUSHES THE BIGGEST RELIEF TO THOSE WHO PROBABLY NEED IT THE MOST IN A DIRECT CREDIT THAT DOES EFFECTIVELY LOWER THEIR TAX BILL, I THINK SOMETIMES SOME OF THE CRITICISMS ARE DISMISSIVE OF THOSE WHO ARE IN CIRCUMSTANCES WHERE THIS IS REAL RELIEF FOR THEM.

>> CARLY, FOR THE LIFE OF ME I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA.

CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO THE CLASS WHAT IT IS AND HOW THE NUMBERS THIS THIS BUDGET RELATE TO THAT?

>> YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO DOES NOT UNDERSTAND THE SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA.

YOU ARE NOT ALONE IN THAT.

IN SPEAKING WITH COLLEAGUES AND FOLKS FROM OTHER STATES IT IS CLEAR THAT NEW JERSEY'S WAY OF FUNDING SCHOOLS UNTHIS FORMULA IS AMONG THE MOST PROGRESSIVE IN THE COUNTRY, YOU KNOW, ON PAPER, RIGHT?

SO IN THEORY EVERY STUDENT KIND OF GETS ASSIGNED A WEIGHT BASED ON HOW MUCH IT'S ANTICIPATED IT WOULD COST TO EDUCATE THEM, YOU KNOW, ENGLISH LANGUAGE LEARNERS GET A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A WEIGHT, LOW INCOME STUDENTS GET A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A WEIGHT AND THEN IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE THE STATE LOOKS AT THAT NUMBER AND SAYS, COOL, THIS IS HOW MUCH IT'S GOING TO COST, YOU KNOW, RAISE HOWEVER MUCH YOU CAN IN PROPERTY TAXES AND DON'T WORRY WE WILL FILL IN THE REST WITH STATE AID.

IN PRACTICE THE STATE HAS NEVER HAD ENOUGH MONEY TO DO IT SO IT'S BEEN FLIPPED WHERE THE DISTRICTS WILL SAY, HEY, THIS IS HOW MUCH IT'S GOING TO COST US AND THE STATE WILL SAY, COOL, THIS IS HOW MUCH WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO GIVE YOU AND THEN THE REST IS KIND OF ON THE TAXPAYERS.

SO I THINK KIND OF THIS YEAR THERE WAS HOPE THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A CONSTITUTIONAL, YOU KNOW, FORMULA THAT WAS BLESSED BY THE COURTS.

SO I THINK THERE WAS A HOPE THAT MAYBE WITH AN INCREASE IN REVENUES FOR THE FIRST TIME SINCE 2008 NEW JERSEY COULD REALLY FULLY FUND THIS FORMULA AND SEE HOW IT WORKS FOR STUDENTS, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S WORKING AT ITS EXPECTATION.

>> AND DISTRICTS FOUND OUT ON THURSDAY WHAT THEIR STATE AID WAS GOING TO BE AS A RESULT OF THAT.

HAVE YOU HAD TIME TO LOOK OVER THOSE NUMBERS ENOUGH TO SAY KIND OF WHO WON AND WHO LOST OF MOST SIGNIFICANCE?

>> YEAH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, THE BIGGEST WINNERS ARE YOUR NEWARKS, YOUR PATTERSONS, YOU KNOW, CAMDEN, TRENTON, THOSE ARE ALL KIND OF IN THE TOP IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, GETTING MORE FUNDING THIS YEAR.

YOU KNOW, AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BARREL ARE, YOU KNOW, SOME DISTRICTS LIKE TOMS RIVER REGIONAL, I THINK ASBURY PARK IS DOWN THERE.

SOME DISTRICTS THAT ARE KIND OF, QUOTE, OVERFUNDED, WHICH, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY NO SCHOOL IS GOING TO SAY THEY'RE RECEIVING MORE MONEY THAN THEY KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH, BUT IT'S THIS CONCEPT THAT YOU'VE BEEN RECEIVING MORE STATE AID OVER THE YEARS THAN YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO, YOU KNOW, YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO BE KIND OF MAYBE CHARGING YOUR TAXPAYERS A LITTLE BIT MORE, OR IT COULD BE THAT MAYBE AND WHEN WE LAST CALCULATED IT YOU HAD MORE STUDENTS AND NOW YOU HAVE FEWER.

SO WE'RE GOING TO ADJUST THE AID ACCORDINGLY.

THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS GOING ON WITH THE FOLKS WHO ARE GETTING CUTS, BUT I DO THINK IT'S INTERESTING THAT THE GOVERNOR DOES HAVE HIS REFRAIN THAT, YOU KNOW, INJECTIONS INTO SCHOOL FUNDING MEANS PROPERTY TAX INCREASES -- OR DECREASES, SORRY.

>> RIGHT.

YEAH.

>> AND I THINK THAT'S -- YOU KNOW, AS ANYONE WOULD SAY, IT'S A LOT MORE NUANCED THAN THAT, RIGHT?

SO THE DISTRICTS THAT ARE SEEING REALLY BIG INCREASES IN STATE AID, YEAH, THEY WILL PROBABLY BE ABLE TO GIVE THEIR TAXPAYERS, YOU KNOW, ZERO TAX INCREASES THIS YEAR.

I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE IN EDISON, BUT FOR THOSE WHO ARE RISKING CUTS IT'S GOING TO MEAN THEIR TAXPAYERS HAVE TO PONY UP A BIT MORE AND THAT'S KIND OF THE STATE OF THINGS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

ALMOST UNNOTICED IN ALL THIS TALK OF BUDGETS IS THIS NEW POLL OUT FROM EAGLETON THAT SHOWS THE GOVERNOR'S JOB APPROVAL RATING FALLING TO 49% AND ONLY 33% SAY THEY HAVE A FAVORABLE OPINION OF HIM.

DANIEL, IF THIS POLL CAME OUT A WEEK BEFORE ELECTION DAY, WE MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT A -- BUDGET RIGHT NOW, NO?

DOES IT SEEM LIKE THE GOVERNOR'S POP LATTER HAS SLIPPED?

>> I AM A BIT CURIOUS ABOUT HOW MUCH PEOPLE ARE TYING THIS TO SORT OF NATIONAL DEMOCRATS' THINKING ABOUT HOW HIGH PRICES ARE, MAYBE DISSATISFACTION OF HANDLING OF THE UKRAINE CONFLICT, GAS PRICES EVEN THOUGH MURPHY DOESN'T HAVE CONTROL OVER THERE, SOME SORT OF GUILT BY ASSOCIATION CONSIDERING NEW JERSEY HAS HAD A NOTORIOUSLY HIGH PROPERTY TAXES AND COST OF LIVING.

I'M OF THE OPINION THAT PEOPLE ARE THINKING BIDEN, MURPHY, THINGS AREN'T GOING WELL, I DON'T LIKE IF YOU ARE FEE, FOR EXAMPLE.

>> ALL RIGHT.

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