Hey, homies.

Myra here.

Just a heads up, this episode is sensitive.

It gets into topics like suicide and some references to self-harm.

So take care while watching or listening.

I've always been very curious about food And the spiritual nature of nourishment and what it means only because despite humanity's advancements in AI and technology, ingesting food and eating is something we never evolve past.

This is Joseph Awuah-Darko and we are in Amsterdam in a hotel, eating my best attempt at an American black soul food dish using all Dutch ingredients.

Well, save for the Louisiana hot sauce I brought on the plane.

And dinners are really important to Joseph.

Here's the deal.

Joseph contains multitudes.

He's a Ghanaian sculptor, model, painter and musician.

In 2019, he was named as one of Forbes Africa's 30 under 30 creatives.

And he loves meeting people from all walks of life over food.

The sun is bright as my hopes and fears are here to stay, yeah.

Like so many of the people I'm drawn to on this show, He's an incredibly vulnerable, talented and complex human.

Like these dinners like the one we're having.

Well, for Joseph, they mean so much more than just breaking bread.

That's because on December 6th of last year, after a lengthy struggle with what he names as treatment resistant bipolar disorder, Joseph announced on Instagram that he was seeking to end his life through what in the Netherlands is called termination of life on request or euthanasia.

The Netherlands is one of the only five countries where that process for psychiatric conditions is legal.

I moved to the Netherlands to legally end my life.

That announcement shook the internet.

Joseph's followers have reacted with every emotion from shock to disgust, commiseration to fascination.

All in all, it's been a little bit like one of those stories you feel like you should look away from, but you can't stop watching.

Mainly because shouldn't this be private but also, thank God it's not.

Shouldn't we be having conversations about mental health and death more?

These days Joseph has more than 550,000 followers on Instagram, and I think people are intrigued because Joseph has turned what could otherwise be a pretty morbid conversation into something much more a project.

He's named the Last Supper Project, which sounds like what it is.

While Joseph awaits approval for his death.

He's dining with strangers.

He's hoping to have more than 180 dinners in total, and as I record this, he's on dinner 140.

And the dinners?

They're an event.

Joseph has been invited to dine in Paris.

London, Australia.

He's had Indonesian food, Turkish Romanian food, and had two Bedouin sisters fly over 3000 miles to cook and spend time with him.

He even attends some of his dinners virtually.

All in all, he's had more than 4000 dinner invitations from strangers all around the world.

Strangers like me.

But I'm interested in Joseph for reasons other than the shock circling big words like death.

I want to dive right into this picture of what people assume about people like him.

People suffering from a mental illness.

People who don't want to be alive anymore.

That they're irrational.

That they want a way out.

That they can't be helped or that they want attention.

Bipolar disorder, in particular, has this stigma that folks struggling with it don't always know what's best for them, or that they aren't emotionally clear.

So yeah, we're going to talk about some of that.

And then in true Homegoings fashion, we're going to go deeper because I have questions that complicate the complicated ones.

Questions like what if he isn’t approved?

Last year, just under 10,000 people in the Netherlands completed the process and ended their lives.

And 219 of them died for psychiatric reasons.

By the way, in 2010, that number was only two.

This isn't like easy to do.

Joseph doesn't have a date scheduled for his death, so I wonder what if he, like, changes his mind during this period of waiting?

There's so much hype around his decision now.

Does he feel obligated to go through with this?

What about his critics and people who say he's trying to divert attention from legal troubles?

And then there's the big question that's been burning in my belly for a while now.

One I've wanted to go back and ask pretty much every person I've known who has died by suicide, which is was this your only option?

So in April, I decided to go to Amsterdam to ask him some questions that feel like both none of my business and absolutely all of our business at the same time.

I wanted to meet him where he's at, cook him one of those suppers, and regardless of whether or not it's actually one of his last suppers, I wanted to just take a minute of his potentially incredibly precious time to listen, to understand, and of course, to take a minute to eat.

Yes.

This is so good.

From Vermont public, this is homegoings, a show that invites you to eavesdrop on candid conversations with people who will challenge what you think you know.

I'm Myra Flynn, and today, a conversation with Joseph Awuah Darko, a 28 year old Ghanaian artist who moved to Amsterdam seeking euthanasia amid a long struggle with bipolar disorder.

Joseph has been documenting his journey on Instagram and Substack.

Building a community around his Last Supper project, he's sharing meals and life with people from all corners of the world, including us.

This is his journey, and this is homegoings.

We're a proud member of the NPR network.

Welcome home.

Thi project that you’re up to came on my radar, only had you know, a few followers, and then it just kind of exploded.

So but Still, there's some folks who might not know what's going on.

What are you doing here in the Netherlands?

It’s a very layered question.

I came to the, to the Netherlands firstly because I wanted to exist authentically as a gay man and secondly as somebody who has struggled with chronic mental disorders.

Of which the diagnosed one of which I have is, is is bipolar disorder, When I was 16, I felt that finding nonviolent solutions to deal with my treatment resistant bipolar disorder, the best solution would be here in a place like the Netherlands, where medically assisted death is legal.

And I want to make something very clear.

I appreciate, acknowledge and celebrate people who are able to live with their chronic mental disorders, whether it's schizophrenia, whether it's bipolar disorder, whether it's psychosis, whether it's borderline personality disorder, whatever on the spectrum, I really think it's beautiful.

is the right to choose, you know, If you want to live or die?

Yes, the right to choose if you want to pursue that path.

I mean, you don't choose.

Ultimately, you have to be approved for euthanasia.

Right.

It's not something that I do.

Whenever I see my comment section, Because again, I understand that ignorance is in high demand.

And also one thing that my presence on social media has taught me is that very few people actively engage in critical thinking or basic comprehension skills, but that, you know, and I mean that in the most earnest way, you know.

But that aside, I think that whenever people ask, you know, so when am I choosing a date?

You know, it's an oxymoron.

I can't choose a date.

GP and a specialist have to approve my desire to pursue euthanasia.

I can't, you know, it's a process.

Exactly.

And it's also another misconception.

Euthanasia.

And I know people won't get this in their head because I've said it so many times, but I'm happy to repeat, like to repeat it.

Euthanasia is preventative.

I'm going to say it again, euthanasia is preventative.

It is not a phone call, an appointment and an injection.

It's it's it's a process by which you go through a series of once you qualify, you know, I'm still yet to qualify as I don't yet have Dutch health insurance.

But once you qualify, I'm not yet, but once once one does qualify and formally applies, you will go through a long bureaucratic series of evaluations and reviews.

And guess what?

There's a waiting list.

There's a wait period to be evaluated and assessed So even then, right?

I, I have heard and personally spoken to people who have been on the waitlist for 13 months.

I've I've spoken to people who've been on a waitlist for two years, because sometimes a prerequisite to probably being approved for euthanasia is to be formally diagnosed with something.

Of course, right?

Yeah.

I mean, also, whether that's from my research, whether that's a physical ailment or can be mental.

Yeah, which can be harder to diagnose.

So whether it's a physical ailment or a mental ailment and I don't put those two on higher or lower pedestals, I think it is both equal.

You have to like there is a wait period to see a specialist if you're going through the public system, if you can't afford, which is most people private assessments, the wait periods take at least minimum nine months and then maximum 2 to 3 years.

So it's not a fast process.

You know, there is time to smell the roses and see if this is really something that you want to pursue.

And I've spoken to, people who have Started the process and stopped.

Yeah, you’re 28 and I feel like for some of those watching right now, like that's pretty young.

Yeah.

I'm not the youngest person pursuing this despite the fact that I am young.

sometimes I do get a bit fatigued by the sensationalism or the attempt to sensationalize.

And don't get me wrong, I you know, I understand that journalists have a job.

I understand that media corporations be it independent or legacy media have an agenda to maximize and optimize on clicks.

You know, we live in late stage capitalism.

I get, you know, it doesn't matter how much a journalist smiles at me, I know, I know with as much integrity, which is that they have a job, right.

And and that I'm a source, amongst other things, in that context.

And so I really try and I think what I'm also trying to do is protect my peace as I navigate what is a very personal decision.

And the only reason why I want to do interviews, is because I want to be a part of the critical destigmatization of what it means to speak about chronic mental disorders and suicide.

Statistically, over 300,000 people have ended their lives violently this year.

We aren't even halfway into 2025.

This includes one of my dear friends in the UK over eight weeks ago.

Yeah, it was kind of complicated.

This includes one of my favorite indie film directors, Jeff Baena.

I think quite a few people, the thousands of people who trauma dump, in my DMs and in my comment sections because my, my Instagram has become this weird, safe space to do that, which is, which is something I've even had to sort of try and create a boundary around in my mind.

But suicide is all around us.

But it seems to be something that I find not only in African cultures, but in South Asian cultures and cultures and parts of of Britain where there is there's lots of stoicism, in parts of the African-American community is not spoken about.

And my only job, the reason why I care to come and speak to any journalist, knowing the agenda that they have, is for my agenda to normalize these discussions at the risk and detriment of being perceived as doing this for clout or for attention.

I mean, those who say, I'm doing this for attention are right.

It's it's it's it's attention for a cause dear to my heart.

So that's why it's so, so yes, it is in that regard.

But I don't really care to profile myself in the context of pursuing assisted euthanasia, because I am more than that as a person.

And at the end of the day, I, I only want to be a vessel for others to have that discussion as well.

after the murder of George Floyd in America Folks were having a really hard time seeing Black people as human beings once again.

There’s such an expectation to be resilient.

It's almost a very naughty word at this point.

Oh my God.

Yeah, yeah.

And so I've always, you know, wanted to dig into some of the ways in which we are not monolithic in how we think about life and death, right?

which makes you so interesting.

But then there's also this thing where like, people have kind of there's a trauma porn going on also about black pain and the black gays.

So I guess, like, have you been experiencing that divide?

I guess, in your own.

Like I want to put this out there, but yeah, are people going to care if I'm not talking about death?

You know, I had a German guardian friend who I'm no longer speaking to, who told me that to my face at a lovely pub in Amsterdam that, you know, and I'm going to use, I'm going to try and imitate his broken English.

I mean very sweet guy.

I think he speaks more German than he does English.

But he said, we blacks don't get depression like we've been through slavery.

We've been through so many things.

Speaking to your resilience, of course.

The R word, Yeah.

Which I do think is also quite pornographic, resilience.

That's a different conversation.

Because.

Yeah, because, because, because, because resilience speaks to this idea of being a shock absorber for humanity as black woman, are expected to be in so many cases.

That’s out whole job, Right?

But going back to that anecdote I got up from the table and left That was the end of our friendship.

You didn’t say anything?

No no no no no I just, I wrote about it on Substack.

I, I mean it sort of begs the question was he really a friend?

I mean, I didn't, you know, I realized that two things can be true at the same time.

He's a wonderful person, right.

And we're on a different wavelength when it comes to showing compassion for people of our skin tone who are going through mental health issues.

And there's a difference between, boosting someone's energy by by trying to, Give them some encouragement and some zeal to keep going and just gaslighting someone straight up, from, from a very toxic, toxic point.

You’re saying your experience and he’s saying no.

No.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's a complete block.

You’re like, this isn’t up for debate.

This is my experience.

you know, and and so that's something that I definitely have struggled with like, trauma porn, in one instance It's important to highlight these very horrific and real things that have happened throughout our history.

But on another hand, it seems like within museums all over the world, be it the MoMA, you know, be it, the Frick, be it the Tate, We’re all hanging and dead.

Like, you know, be any of those museums within a largely white contemporary art world.

It is what it is.

For better or for worse, there seems to be a demand for that in some capacity.

Right.

That can be problematic.

But I do think that when it comes to the last, the Last Supper project it's also been about a huge celebration of life and being in the present.

My page has been as much about celebrating the precious nature of time and who we spend it with and how we nourish each other as well as it has been about the gruesome horrors of living with a chronic mental disorder, with bipolar disorder, in my case.

But I think that because the brain, the human brain, has negativity bias, which has been scientifically proven, you know, negativity bias is the reason why you can see a hundred amazing positive comments, but focus on the three nastiest ones, because the brain has, you know, fright, you know, fight or flight Negativity bias.

I think people people like to I think people people like to jump to the lazy conclusion that, my page glamorizes suicide as opposed to celebrates what it means to be alive, and to and to connect with people at a really meaningful level through food.

I've already read a million people ask if you’re concerned about about romantisizing suicide?

Yeah, yeah.

I’ve read your response which is of course no and it's very much in line with what you've just said about the celebration of life but then Recently I saw, you know, a mother who was kind of begging you on Instagram to please stop posting this, please stop doing this.

My daughter has depression, she’s young, she's kind of like being encouraged in this direction.

So would you take it down?

You put a poll on Instagram to see if your Audience wanted you to stop sharing this vulnerability or keep it going.

Yeah.

And I was surprise to see, overwhelmingly so many people want to keep sharing.

Yeah.

First question is do you worry about her daughter?

So I worry about everybody who is navigating chronic mental disorders.

So I worry about that woman's daughter.

I worry about my friends.

I worry about strangers who tell me about wanting to know about my process, of which I never respond because I'm doing this, every time a journalist asks me, in a pre-interview: So, you know, Joseph, so what are the stages?

What are the stages like?

I think?

I love your journalist voice, is that what we sound like?

No, but, you know, you all sound so well-intentioned, but it's like, you know, it's something, you know, a journalist will ask on the phone, you know.

Oh, I'm speaking my editor, this being my producer, but also just tell me, like, where you got what are the stages, right?

And they all feel a bit silly because I end up responding and saying, you know, I'm doing this for the first time.

Like, like, you know, that the weird novelty and attention I've received for opening up about my decision to pursue this doesn't make me an expert, but this is my first time exploring this.

And so no, I can't give you the Jackson five ABC of what it means to go through medically assisted death.

I, it's my first time and the and they all come to this conclusion like, oh yeah, you're right.

But but but it's true.

I don't claim to be an expert.

But we should be able to google it anyway as journalists.

Right?

What the process is.

You know, it's like it's it's a and also it's a very it's also a very personal question to ask somebody.

It doesn't matter how transparent or vulnerable I'm being in the open scrapbook that is my Instagram.

It's, it's it's almost like asking, God forgive me, but it's almost like asking, someone who is transgender or transitioning where they’re at in their process.

And I think, I, I think that once I create that parallel it makes more sense, you know, because you can't ask somebody that, you know, not not not really.

You know, but I, I think that because people feel as if I, I You can ask somebody about their transition and where they're at but I understand the answer is personal.

I mean, You can ask them, but only if they feel safe.

Maybe there’s an assumption of safety though, because you do share so much.

But I still think that, you know, it's dehumanizing.

I share what I choose to share.

That's up to you right?

I'm not sharing because I have a gun to my head or somebody who's interrogating me, asking me questions.

That's voluntary.

It's still different when somebody is like sort of imposing that question on you.

Like, if there wasn't any bureaucracy and you had Dutch health insurance and you qualified for assisted euthanasia and could have the injection tomorrow, would you do it?

That was the question you asked me.

And and, you know, quite frankly, after that's very intense and again, journalism but but and and I understand why she did that.

But it was retriggering.

It's like choosing to be vulnerable and being put in a position where I have to, I always feel cornered.

Yeah.

It's it it does sometimes make me wonder if talking about it is doing is doing me more of a disservice than is helping normalize these discussions.

Like you personally?

Yeah,, as somebody who still has to despite the responsibility I've taken on to to normalize these these discussions, a responsibility that I know no one gave me, but I've chosen to take it upon myself.

I do have to achieve the the balance, right?

And so for me, that has been, that has been, that has been, a complex duality in my mind the entire time.

One of the questions I had when I first met you in our pre-interview, the first thing out of your mouth was like, I'm not special.

Like, there are so many people who have decided to do this, and you seem really surprised by the attention that you were getting.

Even though you're using it on purpose to shine this light.

Yeah.

So I did a little research on exactly how not special you are.

Okay, so according to the regional euthanasia review committee, the number of people in the Netherlands, who die by assisted suicide has increased by 10% as of last year.

Wow.

Wow.

That’s a very big number, so that's gone from that's like nearly 10,000 people choosing to die by assisted suicide.

And the majority of the people, 80% of those people, a little more than 80% are choosing this because of some physical ailments.

So they have cancer, they’re stage 4 and not able to go on.

Yeah.

But, only 219 people have been granted death in this way, due to a mental illness, right?

Or a mental disorder or something that, isn't physical, right?

Yeah.

And so I guess my point is, like, you are special.

You are doing something that is unique, right?

You are choosing to die and a small group, only a handful of people have been granted this.

But let me say that yeah, only a handful of people have been granted.

But not everyone who applies is approved.

Right.

Exactly.

I think the audience and you understand that what that means as far as the number of zeros to add.

What I said I'm not special.

This is what I mean.

Since we're talking numbers, as I've already said in this interview, over 300,000 people have violently ended their lives.

Let's just sit with that.

What do you consider a violent ending?

Compared to a non-violent ending?

I just mean they have taken their own lives not through euthanasia.

So my logic, which might be erroneous, but but humor me here.

My logic is that anyone who dies not by assisted euthanasia has ended their lives violently.

Okay.

I don't know if you know other approaches which you know, not through euthanasia which are nonviolent.

Do we know?

I’m thinking about this, I’m trying to think, like I’ve lost quite a few folks in my life to suicide, Yeah.

more than I’d like, it’s in my family and I think, I don't know if they would have thought that it was violent.

I wonder if they thought this was the best way to do it.

When I say violent, I mean it In almost an objective capacity.

So, like, you can, you think, can you name or think about not not even two or 3 or 4, just one way of ending one's life that is not violent?

Maybe not but it’s all But that's my point.

No matter how it’s done it’s all very different to what my brain can wrap around.

No, but but I think what we say violence, we we mean they suffered before they died.

Got it, yeah.

Okay, that’s the answer, that’s what we mean by violent.

That's my that's my litmus test for what violent means.

And so that that number is, is that is a stat is a statistic that I have almost joined to somebody who has attempted in the past.

Right.

And I've documented that.

So this is also not my first rodeo.

This is not my first time coming to terms with wanting to end my life.

This is my first time speaking about it in the capacity, you know, and talking about it in the context of doing it nonviolently through medically assisted death.

And so when I say I'm not special, I'm talking about that number, the over 300,000 people who have ended their lives in 2025, let's not add the previous year or the year before that, but just this year alone, which is alarming.

And again, the larger number, which is the 900 million of us, 1 in 8 people living with some sort of mental disorder.

So that's what I mean when I say I'm not special.

I mean that, and and also, let's even make it sillier.

I am not the first person to cry on social media.

I haven't broken any records on that front.

I'm not the first person to talk about suicide ideation on social media, I'm not and won't be the last.

I'm not the first person to write about it Right, or to vocalize it.

You know to to vocalize and write about it In a book that's going to be sold or in a, in a newsletter.

I'm not I'm not doing anything special.

And, and, and this is all my way of saying that, you know, a lot of people accuse me of being brave.

I don't know what that means, because I, you know, I don't have the adult, modulator that most people have, you know, that line between one's interiority and exterior to the very adult choreography of how are you doing?

I'm fine.

I don't have that.

I'm I'm I'm I, I try and live with as much rawness as possible.

Maybe that’s what’s special though?

Maybe, but but but is that really special?

Because it's something that we, all of us can do and something that I hope my page encourages but what am I saying?

It's not something that many people have done on my page in my comment sections and are doing, as we speak, present continuously, right?

Quite bravely.

And whether it's a woman telling me, you know about how her mother jumped out a window or somebody sending me a long letter in a DM the day their twin brother passed away, that day.

I'm always very touched.

I'm always very touched by the Bravery that people have reciprocated when they speak about these, these very real, difficult topics.

And so when I say I’m not important it’s the last supper project is not about Joseph Awuah-Darko and his journey with euthanasia or bipolar disorder.

The last project is about human beings indulging in radical curiosity and vulnerability about the way in which we speak about this issue, which affects all of us.

This sense of being suicidal, you know, you know, suicidality can change in minutes.

You know, it's not a perennial state.

and I posted that video about my decision in a, in a moment where I did really want to go there than what I meant it when I said it.

And in moments between then and now, I still have felt that we sometimes other times I felt other.

And so it's What’s the other feeling?

Oh my God, The other is when I'm on my feet for nine hours helping my best friend who designs these amazing menus, cook for strangers.

You know, it's when I am on a run, or even just like a Sunday walk in Amsterdam and it's really pretty.

And I have a sort of faint optimism about being young and in my body and, and and able to hold a man's hand in public in a country that allows me to do that.

It's when I'm, you know, those moments of joy when I'm, you know, writing and I find that things are clicking and I'm able to flow.

And it's those moments where when, when I'm on an unironic date and, I get to indulge in what it means to be in somebody's embrace, you know, because, And those moments feel like?

Like, like Like, you don't want to do this?

Those moments feel like, oh, the sun can shine again.

Like hope.

Yeah, you know.

But the problem with self-awareness at my level, and I'm sure a level that I share with many other people is that, you know, that the lows are coming just around the corner.

I saw this post of yours recently, it’s like you’re almost afraid of your joy.

I'm, I am and I think I hope and pray, and I've already heard that quite a few bipolar people agree with this.

I am terrified of joy.

Such a sad thing to say actually, but It makes me sad to hear.

Yeah, my hands are even shaking but yeah, I'm I'm, like, terrified of joy.

I'm terrified because it's, anyone who's been on the spiral knows that when you enter the sunken place of what it means to be in a depressive episode, right?

Because bipolar, bi, the binary of being bipolar.

Bipolar is that you go through these high hypomanic peaks and these low hyper depressive lows.

That's the bi, the binary of it all, right?

So you can’t really trust your joy.

You can't trust your joy.

You can't trust yourself.

It's not time.

You can't clock it.

You know, no one talks about the violence of that limbo.

That's what you want to end.

That is exactly it and also, no one talks about about the capacity for two things being true at the same time.

Yes, hypomania looks like six Instagram Reels a day.

Looks like being able to write on my Substack looks like.

Be able to record videos and press share and post.

It looks like that, you know, looks like I'll be able to show up on time to visit the farmers market with my friend as we prepare to serve strangers a six course pescatarian menu.

That's, that's hypermania.

It's productive.

It's falsely bubbley sometimes.

Because I think sometimes people, people, want you to apologize for your high functioning depression.

Right, like it can’t be that bad if they see you doing well.

Yeah, because they think you've always got it.

But you know, I think what I'm trying to do is, is to shake that up a bit.

I don't, like, wanting to pursue assisted death you know, my friend Emmanuel got approved after years of being in crisis centers and being on medication you know, like, like he's been through it.

But when I when I met him for the first time on my 30th Last Supper, he looked like a perfectly charming, sweet, well adjusted young man.

So at the end of the day, people, I think that there are these violent, small minded misconceptions about the life and lived experience of somebody who is bipolar or who is struggling with the chronic disorder or somebody criticizing me for going to my first Paris fashion week to support somebody I respect and admire.

Even though we view life differently, you should apologize for your high functioning depression.

You should apologize for, being able to be functional and masking and hypermania.

You should apologize for still looking, you know, good.

Whatever that means, quote unquote.

Because a very triggering question an interviewer asked me like, Joseph, for listeners, they want to know you seem like a fairly articulate, bright, brilliant, attractive young man.

Why, they'll be thinking, why do you want to at all?

And I calm down.

And I responded to her and I told her, well, if being young, gifted and Black was enough not to want to kill yourself, I guess many people would still be alive.

There was silence.

So let me ask if some of these people who have these misconceptions, you know this, it sounds like it just doesn't match what they think sickness or illness is supposed to look like.

If they saw you on one of your lows, would it match?

It would.

I have had let me try and describe that without getting emotional.

And that's okay, I'm happy to go there.

Lows look like bed rotting, bed rotting, not being able to brush your teeth, and that even being an accomplishment when you are in a low.

lows looks like holding in your urine for long hours because you don't want to get up from your bed.

I want same as it is in the most in there was visceral way.

So people understand what it means.

It means self-sabotage.

There's a there's a cute guy you like.

You've been asked out on a date.

you're going through this crippling, neurologically painful spiral.

Her in bed, your duvet is wet from cold sweats.

The date is at 7:30 p.m..

It's now 7:50 p.m.

Your date is asking you where you are.

The guilt, the ugly guilt is eating at you, telling you how worthless you are, telling you how inconsiderate you are.

You're crying.

All you have to do is lift up your finger and respond to your date and say like, I can't do it today or I'm not able to do it, or I, I'm, I'm really I'm really not feeling too well, can’t even do that because that not even entirely the truth, but it's a well-meaning person who has showed up for you, and you can't even show up for them.

And it's eating at you and eating at you and eating at you.

You're spiraling even more.

You.

You're then indulging in violent negative self-talk.

This is all familiar.

You know, the self-talk is it's getting worse.

You feel alone.

Your worthlessness is amplified at any with more qualities about yourself disappear.

It's getting darker and darker.

You have left the phone unanswered, you have refused to answer all the nine missed calls you now have, It's now 9 p.m. you have entered jackass status in your mind.

The self-talk gets worse and worse and worse.

Your thoughts get darker.

Some of us like to reinforce, so we go watch very sad music.

You go and look for videos of people who have ended their lives.

We feel entirely isolated because the world is happening around us.

It's spinning.

Five more sentences or two more sentences from what I've just described can be a suicide attempt.

It’s death.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

And this is what it is.

What I've described to you is what it is.

And it's a helplessness that makes you frustrated because you aren't telling yourself, of course, at this moment that it's neurological and that you inherited it because I did inherit my my bipolarity it's inherited.

Are you telling yourself that it's you're fault?

Exactly.

You are blaming yourself beyond all salvageable or any redeemable qualities about yourself.

It doesn't matter what you accolades are in that moment.

It doesn't matter.

It doesn't matter if somebody said, you look nice that day, doesn't matter.

All you can think about is how horrible, inconsiderate, disgusting and worthless you are.

And you could deeper the even the bed feels like it's the Salvador Dali mode and it's sinking.

You know, it's one of those situations and if you're lucky, on those nights and you also prone to self-harming, if you're lucky, you cry yourself until you get a headache and fall asleep and then wake up tomorrow the cycle continues.

And it takes a support system, antidepressants or drugs and some sort of self determination, including the episodes shifting from depressive to manic.

For that to that to happen, you know.

Yeah.

And I'm sure anyone listening to me like understands exactly what I'm saying.

Like you have to wait for the next harmful thing which is your mania.

Yeah.

to reach and then pull you out of that?

Exactly.

Or some sort of support system or some sort of drug that that numbs you.

And so the cycle continues.

Can I askyou a question?

Yeah.

How are you doing today?

Today I, as I told you when you met me outside with that very refreshing hug, I'm in the midst of a depressive episode.

I woke up with that very familiar spiraling feeling.

It's not the cabinet.

Sorry.

Yeah.

I woke up in a very depressive episode.

Which which tends to be quite existential and dark.

So I called my best friend, Ellie, who has these two lovely dogs.

Use a dog.

I gorgeous golden doodles, and she actually just said, you know, let's go back, cut some, rosemary from my garden and just come in and spend time with my, my doodles, And this is the thing about the violence of healing.

Why?

You see why you're surviving.

You know, like a part of me knows that you'd be fine if I didn't show up today.

But at the same time, the energy, time, resources, effort, strength that you've put into making this happen, along with your team.

Yeah.

Part of me wanted to honor that.

And so.

The issue with being.

With having this invisible disease.

And I love I love how it's called an invisible disease.

And having this neurological disability is that the world doesn't really cater to you that way.

I'm sick.

Because I don't have a mind that allows me to enjoy being alive and I, I am crippled.

That's the word.

That is the word.

Unfortunately, I am crippled by that.

It's it's sort of like it's a sort of like neurological leprosy.

You know, I'm crippled by that, that invisible disease.

And it's super hard to explain to somebody who is, who is committed to you It’s scary for people to hear about or talk about if they can't understand it.

Most things people can’t understand, Yeah.

You know, scare them.

Yeah.

So no, it's it's it's it's it it continues to be a journey to just try to educate people and and like I said, my story is only a vehicle for other people's stories.

Yeah, I really appreciate you sharing some of that very personal information about your lows.

Because I do think, there’s gotta be some people out there that don’t know that maybe they share some of the same qualities but the way you’ve described it, maybe they’ll be able to recognize it.

Yeah, I hope so.

And it also sometimes I get caught up in wondering I might just be negative.

Am I just whining?

And the answer is no.

I think the worst part about coming forward, the thing that I've seen most in my comment section by men white, black, blue, purple by men in general as well, and some women as well, was a lot of black women as well, even though black women have also been the most compassionate and beautiful and kind to me, but two things can be told the same time.

It's a vibe.

Is is man up, man up, man up, man up, man up.

How we, you know, how the cognitive dissonance of how we see men should be more emotionally intelligent, but also live in a world that doesn't allow them to indulge in their emotions.

I could scream on this microphone right now, and I, That would really hurt our ears.

I yeah, I know, but, but how both those two things happened to be true at the same time.

So, man up meaning please stop sharing.

Yeah.

Stop being a Excuse my French pussy.

Stop being a wimp.

Stop being an attention seeking, negative Debbie Downer.

Yeah, it’s bumming us out.

Exactly.

Lighten up.

I mean I think probably like your real on social media .

You're a real person.

Like what's ironic about these people rising up man up and not continue to follow you and create and create algorithm, stimulating comments.

But anyway, yeah, this is not in an odd way.

Right, and contiue to do this is that in an odd way It's like it bothers them so much because they care about you like you're a real person.

And to see a real person talking about dying, that's even though it's on social media, it seems more graspable than a fictional character.

in an indie flick.

It’s a real person doing it, right?

It lets you know how much more possible it is for the rest of us.

That's so true.

But I always say, I have lived a life stranger than fiction, and I think fiction is always derived from the real.

So I do think that it's it's very comparable.

Yeah.

You know, it's almost the same thing.

Oh, one feeds the other.

I know, I know.

All the crime documentaries out there, like they, they use the news that goes on in the world to create the next episode.

Exactly.

You know, so it's a catch 22.

And I think that sometimes I think people are there is a double standard and I'm okay with it as long as we can just call it what it is.

I am okay with the double standard because we can just call it that, you know?

There’s just due diligence question that I want to ask you.

Yeah.

To just give you a chance to, like, clear it up.

if it’s out there, right?

Because things that have come up on like Reddit, and places that I’ve seen, So, one is that, you know, there was a point in time where you were owing other artists money, and so all of this is a ruse.

It’s all of a performative ruse, you've moved to the Netherlands to escape having to, you know, pay up what you owe.

What do you say to that?

You know, Ghana has a legal system which works, I've been out of Ghana for a very long time.

Everyone knows the family I come from in Ghana.

It's not a secret.

It's very Googleable.

And so, also probably indiscreet to say, but, you know the political party in power now, my family also has ties too.

My uncle belongs to that political party.

So I would be if I played straight, if I played a straight man in Ghana.

Or was remarkably closeted and remained in the closet, I would have a very comfortable life.

Like, you know, in that part of the Global South.

I would be fine.

So escaping that comfort or leaving that comfort Your saying that you don’t need to owe anymore money?

I don’t need to do that, if it was about money.

two things can be true at the same time.

I’m going leave it to the legal system to come up with the truth you know, because I have a lawyer who's working on my name.

But I'm pretty confident that you will find that, it's entirely fabricated and that at the same time, you know, I welcome doubt.

I welcome, skepticism, I welcome doubts, critique, skepticism.

I welcome shame, but I no longer serve those masters.

I'm fallible in many ways as a person.

But that is not one of my flaws.

And as far as, like, dealing with the reality of, I think it would be pretty disgusting and unnecessary if, you know, anybody would use, chronic mental disorders as a, as a route to make money.

Also, the other ways to make money, So just like catagorically speaking, your saying this is just not true?

Yeah, it's not.

And I think that's that's all I can say about that.

basically this whole interview we’re speaking about what's happening on Instagram and Substack, which is so interesting, it’s like we’re here talking about a thing that's over there.

But, I’ve never seen social media used as such a diary.

But, I also see people who are coming to you and saying, I've been thinking about doing this for a while, like, you are inspiring me.

And then I see people come and say, I've, like, fallen in love with you since you started this, and with your heart and your soul in this tender way that you're talking about these things.

and please don’t take your life because, you know, we care abou you and we want you to stay and the community just keeps growing, growing and growing, so, I just wonder what does this communiety mean for you, in regards to this decision, is there a world in which you you take them up on it, you know, you decide not to die?

I love that, you know.

I don't believe in the single narrative of perceiving myself as a good person or as a messianic figure, or as a thought leader in anything.

I'm none of those things.

I'm a person.

I'm 28.

I, I cherish the fact that despite reasons for skepticism or, doubt that I have been upheld by a community that can see me in every single video, I think that the reason why I continue to build a community is because there are some things you just can't fake when it comes to connecting with people.

You can’t fake real engagement.

Somebody told me that a long time ago.

And, and and that's why I'm talking about I think people people are dying to feel something real, you know, There’s a lot of irony in what you just said there, yeah.

You know, you know, they really are.

And and yeah, despite the play on words and and dying for realness.

people want to help and I think, I think people, people really understand that, they also see a lot of what they're going through, what I'm going through, really and truly and and that if this was about anything other than being real, you know, I don't think they would be there.

You know, I, I don't think that they would be there.

For people second guessing your authenticity in this, Yeah.

People seem to be begging you to stay on this earth.

And I think that I'm open to the surprise of of of having my, you know, my life.

Look, it'll be it would be disingenuous to say that my life has been changed by the loss of a project.

Yeah.

It has too.

Yeah.

It and and when I, when I opened up on December 9th, I expected to be bullied off social media.

This wasn't part of the plan.

The last of a project came as a result of me realizing that people actually showed more compassion than they showed vitriol for me, coming forward as somebody who used to post self-help content, know, the plan was to was to be meme coated for ugly crying, or to be or to be reprimanded for, for even, even speaking about something like this, which is largely taboo and to quietly leave the sphere of social media, which can be at times quite, toxic.

So so so so I've, I, I look forward to learning more about what that means for me.

You know, I'm, I'm not uninterested in that.

You know, even with all that's going on in my life and, and, I'm just really humbled by, I'm just really humbled by the The willingness people have had to rally around me with every dinner invite.

That's that's what I care about.

And, and and to be able to, to connect at that level That’s a lot of love.

Yeah, it is, it is, it is.

But I think what people need to remember is that I wasn't alien to love before this project.

I mean, yes, this is at a whole new level, This is a lot of love.

but yeah, you know, this is at a whole new level and it's remarkably touching and I'm always surprised by it.

And I always feel undeserving of it in some capacity.

But as Bob Marley famously said, you can't run away from yourself, right?

All of this love does not fix bipolar disorder.

No, it doesn't.

I still live with myself in all my imperfection and all my fallibility and my disorder as I, you know, I still have to face the day.

I still have to encounter the guilt I feel about experiencing joy.

I still have to count all the all these things.

So if there was a person, you know, like that question that you hated, if there was a way for you to end your life with one shot, would you do it?

My question, if there was a way for you to end your suffering from bipolar disorder tomorrow, Would you do that?

A thousand percent.

and to say that, you know.

Saying I want it, I can start saying I wanted to die on December 9th probably was some sort of cry for help as well.

It was a cry for help that I meant, but I was still a cry for help.

It doesn't mean.

I'm not uninterested in that help.

That's what I will do, will be with people.

It's not death or nothing.

all everyone wants to do when they're in my position?

Is just to have a brain that allows you to enjoy being alive.

That's really it.

Thanks so much for joining us.

If you want to continue to be a part of the homegoing family, stay in touch at homegoings.co and subscribe to the homegoing podcast wherever you listen.

Take good care.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

He said in this interview, I said, I guess authentic to you and what you would like to be saying to me, instead of having.

Yeah, asking, I guess what I would like to say is because, no, I don't have anything to ask.

But because I know everyone and everyone's interviewing me.

But I think more to say that, The human experience.

Is one which is more than the binary of heroes and villains, and that I hope that if my life is a testament to anything at all, it is a testament to the fact that many things can be true at the same time.

You know that, You know that at the end of the day, it is, it is it is possible that Martin Luther King, for example, as much as he did, went above and beyond for advancing the civil rights of black people.

He was probably also a problematic father and a womanizer.

That but the there is, as much as she did a lot to advocate for the marginalized in society, she also had a very problematic aspect to her methods that Mahatma Gandhi, as much as he you did advocate for peace, there was a beacon of that was also a colorist, which is why statue was taken out at the University of Ghana a few years back.

And so that I. I am trying to write home that I'm a person, you know, I have chosen to document my journey knowing that there are people who will be committed to misunderstanding me and why I'm doing what I'm doing, but is choosing choosing to do it, and that I don't want to be viewed as somebody who is coming from a perspective of being perfect, or the perfect beacon of what it means to be popular.

But I will say that what I hope I continue to be able to do is to show people that humanity is multifold manifold, that it's it's it's there is a plurality to what it means to be a person.

So my name is Joseph Walker.

I'm 28, I'm bipolar, but I am more than my medical chronic mental disorder.

You know, I many things to many people and that's okay.

Yeah.

Thank you for so much time.

Yes.

Thank you.

That was that was that was amazing.

And I appreciate the sort of the safe the safe space you created for me to to talk about these things because that's always so much easier said than done.

So it means a lot.

Yeah.

Yeah.