>> From WXXI News.

This is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour will be made this coming February.

The Super Bowl parade for the Buffalo Bills will take place, of course, in Buffalo, but you have to imagine that there will be massive celebrations in Rochester and throughout the region.

If you think I'm getting ahead of myself, I am not superstitious.

I don't believe in Jinxes and the bills are winning the Super Bowl this season.

And then think about what's going to come next.

The team is getting ready to open their new stadium next year.

They've already well, they've had a little bit of fan comment about ticket prices or personal seat license prices, but what happens if the Pagulas decide that winning a Super Bowl means they can raise prices even more?

I think most people would just say they don't care.

They'd be so happy.

The bills finally won this thing five years from now, when the bills are bad again, what happens then?

I'm not trying to be cynical.

I'm actually trying to be an optimist.

I really do think the bills not only deserve to win win, but they're going to and the timing is going to be amazing.

A gift for the Pagulas moving into this new stadium.

And meanwhile, if you happen to attend the season opener against the Ravens, Joe Sayre and you left early and Josh Allen had some words for you, we're going to sort it out this hour.

Giving up on Josh Allen Joe Sayre is here.

He's a bills season ticket holder.

Since when?

>> for the last 15 years.

This is my 15th season.

>> 15th season.

And you have a seat license for the stadium next year?

>> Yeah, my wife and I committed to going in next year for the next 30.

>> For the next 30.

>> That's how long the seat license is.

>> It's like a it's a 30 year mortgage.

It's like buying a house.

Man.

>> It kind of was with the prices.

>> We'll talk about that.

and Joe's finally as optimistic as I am, by the way.

So it's nice to see you.

>> It's great to see you.

>> It's great to have you.

We're not going to ask Sandy, right.

When your first game was.

It goes way back to probably the 60s.

But your first season tickets were 1973.

>> 1973.

>> 1973, and you've got a license for the stadium next year.

>> I do, I have four tickets.

four of them, yes.

>> All right.

Hey, welcome to the program.

>> And thank you.

>> Scott Pitoniak is a best selling author, a nationally honored journalist.

He writes a weekly sports column for the RRB.

He's written about the bills for 40 years, seven books about the team and one Super Bowl to come.

What's your next book when they win the Super Bowl?

>> Well, I'm sure there's like 17 people already have lined up for that one.

So we need to find a different angle.

>> We need a good writer for it.

Come on.

>> Scott.

>> this feel like it's the year to you?

>> Yeah.

Yeah, it's to me, it's all laid out, Evan.

It is.

I look at even before the season started, I looked at the schedule.

I looked at their four toughest games on the schedule.

They were all in, you know, going to be in Orchard Park.

they were all spread out.

Their division stinks.

I didn't see any great improvement except for maybe the Patriots will be better, but I don't really think they're ready to contend with that.

No.

it's the last year of this great stadium.

You know, you talk about Sandy.

1973 was a spectacular year.

That was O.J.

Simpson's 2003 yard odyssey.

They opened that grand stadium, and it's been a it's been a, you know, a place of great memories.

So you say goodbye.

Farewell with a victory and the AFC Championship game, probably against the Ravens.

They're going to probably have to play because I don't think the Chiefs are going to make it.

And then you go to this, you know you go to the Super Bowl.

You win it and you come back and you bring the Lombardi Trophy back to the new place.

Perfect, right?

>> Pretty good.

>> Yeah.

Now I must I must say, I have predicted other seasons in which this is the season.

they're going to win it all.

And I thought that after wide right when they lost their first Super Bowl because they had a tremendous team with guys who were in the primes of their career, and they kept going back, and they went back and they went back and it didn't happen.

So strange things can happen.

We held our collective breath on Sunday afternoon when Josh went running off that field, because you never know.

And we saw what happened with Joe Burrow.

We've seen Brock Purdy, we've seen a lot of quarterbacks get hurt.

>> Jayden Daniels.

>> Maybe Jayden Daniels you know, so but got to stay healthy.

Seventeen's got to stay healthy.

And as long as seventeen's healthy, there's a way.

>> He has a mack truck in a in a uniform, though.

I mean, he seems indestructible.

And I take your point about the 90s teams, but they didn't.

As good as Jim Kelly was.

Josh Allen seems otherworldly in his ability to to elevate the people around him.

>> Yeah, you know what?

I always think of a Teddy Roosevelt saying about, you know, comparison is the thief of joy.

And I'm.

it as a as a student of history.

I really try not to be.

I try not to be a prisoner of the past, nor a prisoner prisoner of the present.

The game is totally different, Jim Kelly.

You know, quarterbacks could get killed back then.

you couldn't breathe, you know, now you can't breathe on a quarterback without a without a flag coming out.

I'm not taking anything away from Josh.

I think he is the most gifted athlete to ever play the position.

I really believe that he might be the toughest.

he has all the qualities you want, and I. And I agree with you in that point of a of a great leader elevates everybody else.

And he certainly he does more with less than any quarterback.

in the NFL right.

>> Now throwing the under read the receivers aren't bad but he's not throwing the Andre Reed.

No cook is good, but he's not Thurman Thomas.

>> Yeah he's got a great now.

He's got a great offensive line.

The rules are different.

The rules are geared towards the offense.

So much more so than in the Kelly years.

Let me tell you.

you know, so that, you know, that makes a difference when you know, you know, you can get literally turned into a pretzel and now you can't.

I mean, there's a certain safety which is good.

I'm all for that.

the way the game has evolved and so forth.

But I think, you know, we have never seen I go back to the mid 60s watching football.

I go back to Y.A.

Tittle and Johnny Unitas and Bart Starr all the way through.

And I've never seen a quarterback with all the attributes that Josh has with the package that Josh has here.

now, whether or not you know, whether or not he wins or not, we'll see.

It hasn't been his fault.

He's been a great postseason performer.

He has.

If you look at his stats the team has let him down.

The coaching decisions have let him down.

And the team the defense has let them down.

>> If 13 seconds doesn't happen, that's one of the greatest performances by a quarterback in history.

And in Mahomes was great in that game, too.

But people don't remember what Josh Allen did in that game because of 13 seconds.

And they lost that game.

Yeah, that was an all timer.

Yeah.

so given that that's the guy in the quarterback position, I know Joe Sayre would not have left early on opening night.

they're playing the Ravens.

Josh had some words for people who left early.

And you did what?

>> I left early.

>> Oh, Joe.

>> You.

It's terrible.

I could sit here and and justify it and make excuses, but simply put, we have a long drive back to Rochester.

I start my workday at 7 a.m.

on Monday mornings, and if we had stayed, we probably didn't get home till 3 or 330.

I mean, we got home at 130, leaving with eight minutes left, and in the fourth, and it was after it seemed like the bills threw the white flag up there.

but I can tell you it will not be happening again.

>> Now, Sandy, you were there at opening night?

>> Yes.

>> Did you leave early?

>> No.

>> What would you.

You want to say something to Joe next to you?

>> Don't ever do it.

You'll.

You'll learn.

I've.

I've stayed for every game.

all the time.

Because, you know, I was at the first greatest comeback.

And I told my husband.

>> 35 three, or what was it.

>> 35, 35 to 3 early in the in.

>> The Houston game?

>> Yeah, I was at the game.

>> Of course you were.

>> Yeah.

And I crossed my fingers and I said, we can do this.

And the other night it was so interesting because I said to my husband in the third quarter, you know, we're within a couple scores.

That's still a possibility with Josh Allen.

That's still a possibility.

And look what happened.

And the crowd was going wild.

You wouldn't know a lot of people left.

It was so loud.

>> Well I imagine Joe's not that loud.

He wasn't missed.

15 points is two scores, man.

I mean, that's a score and a three and out.

And then also, I mean, this is not a sports show.

You can see how powerful the bills are in this region that once a year we might talk about them in this context here.

But I do want to say to Scott Pitoniak, if you told me that to win a game against the bills, you've got to get three yards with Lamar Jackson in one play or you've got to stop Josh Allen when he's on fire in the stadium, is on fire in a drive.

I think I'm going to go for three yards in one play.

I don't think I'm punting there.

>> Yeah, yeah I you know we talk about the famous comeback, the 35 three game.

You know every time that there is one of these incredible comebacks there's an incredible come, come down.

The Houston Oilers at the time whom the bills beat in that wild card playoff game back in in 93. they kept throwing the football.

They were up 35 to 3.

You've got to milk the clock now.

And you know and the bills had some breaks Steve Christie the kicker covers recovers his own onside kick.

How often does a kicker you know.

So you have to have things like that.

So yeah I think there were some really questionable decisions made on the part of you know, of the Ravens.

that enabled that.

And who was going to expect, you know you know, Derrick Henry to fumble, right?

He's been rumbling through.

It's a bad matchup for the bills.

much worse than a Kansas City matchup.

This is because they can run the football.

And you got two really big weapons.

And it just you know.

So yeah some things had to go wrong in order for things to go right for the bills.

>> Yeah.

Can you believe Joe left early?

>> Well you know I would say that, but but I wrote a column that I fell asleep in my recliner.

Now, at least I'm in my own living room and not far from the bed.

And then I woke up, and I go, like, at first I'm a little groggy and this is a little surreal.

And I go like, okay, now I got to go watch all the highlights here and find out what happened.

You know?

>> Well, again, Sandy says never leave early.

>> Never leave early.

>> 35 three.

She didn't leave.

>> I think, you know, I think in Joe's defense the AP had the estimates of 20 to 25,000 people had left.

>> Yeah, it was a lot.

>> Yeah, it was a lot of people left, you know.

>> It still means 50,000 people had faith.

And I and I did not believe at that moment.

>> But but this is where the psychology of the region comes in that I can relate to.

I'm from Cleveland.

I mean, I was baptized in sports pain.

One of my first memories is the drive, then the fumble.

The next year, I was at the game where Michael Jordan made the shot over L0 that we all see in the highlights.

Still, I was ten years old.

I mean, I know what that is like.

And in 2016 Cleveland gets to the World Series and my best friend is there.

And he left early before we had a two run homer to tie the game in the eighth inning, he was walked.

He was out of the stadium about to pick up his car, and he's sprinting back down the street trying to get back in, or at least get into a bar to watch the rest of it.

And I said, how could you do that?

And he said, I wanted it so bad, but I didn't want to see half the stadium.

If Cubs fans celebrate there, it hurt too much.

I've been too close for too long.

I said, no, you've been too close for too long, and now you're old enough to know that your life goes on, but you don't miss the chance to see something special.

That's what Sandy would have told you.

You've had plenty of heartache.

>> Lots of heartache.

>> But you can live with it.

It's just sports.

I mean, it hurts, right?

>> It really hurts.

>> It does hurt.

>> It hurts a lot of years.

>> What hurt worse?

The four Super Bowl losses or the Josh Allen era losses so far where you know that he's playing great and this team is good enough to win and they're just not getting there.

What hurts worse.

>> Josh Allen's losses.

Yeah.

Or the team's losses.

Yeah well yeah.

>> But right.

But in the Josh Allen.

>> Era era.

>> Not getting there somehow losing these games to a team in the Chiefs I mean they're not as the Chiefs are not as good as they used to be.

So yeah it's a lot of kind of collective pain.

But you know do you get over it over time?

>> I get over it easier than I used to.

I in the, you know, Jim Kelly days, it would take me a week.

You know, and now it's more a couple of days.

>> Joe is still not over 13 seconds.

>> No, it's it's tough.

And and I think you've seen my truck, but I've got zuba's print on the hood of my truck, and that seemed like a great decision when I got it done before the start of the season.

But I'll tell you, driving home from Buffalo, I watched the Kansas, the most recent Kansas City loss in a bar in Buffalo with with my friends that live out there driving home with that zubaz on the hood was one of the most frustrating experiences of my entire life.

>> Yes.

Right there you can't get away.

>> From can't get away from it.

>> But that's what's going to make it so sweet.

Joe, can you look ahead just for a second and ask yourself what it's going to be like for bills fans?

>> Yeah, I mean, to me it like it it would be so incredibly special.

And it's and that's because of what the bills mean to me.

It's it's not about the reason I have season tickets isn't about what's on the field.

It's about in the kettles parking lot, 8 to 12 times a year, 8 to 11 times a year with some of my best friends in the world, people that I grew up with from high school to friends that I made in college, to friends I've made in adults.

We have 25 of us who I know that I'm going to see at least eight times a year.

And it's it's how special it would be for them as well that makes it that special, that would make it that special for me.

>> What would it mean to you?

>> It would be a thrill of a lifetime, because I remember when we lost the wide right game and they had a celebration down at City Hall, and we went and that was amazing.

And they lost.

So I can't even imagine what it would be like with that city.

If they win.

>> Get ready Sandy.

>> Get ready.

>> It's good.

It's going to be it's going to be wonderful.

Let me grab a phone call from Joe in Penfield, who was at the Ravens game, I think.

Is that right?

Joe?

>> Yes.

>> And go ahead.

>> Yeah.

So I've been a season ticket.

I'm a Joe, too, but I'm a Joe that stays because.

Because I know and we all know about Josh and what he can do.

And Josh Allen I believe I've been a season ticket holder for 12 to 15 years.

And you know, if the bills do win the Super Bowl it's going to be a great, a great it's going to feel really good for my self-esteem.

And it'll be erroneous self esteem.

But that's okay.

>> Oh, man.

I hope you get it, Joe.

I think you're going to get it this year, man.

This is happening.

>> All right.

Hey.

>> Please be careful to it.

Sounds like you're standing on the side of 490.

Just be wherever you are.

Be careful.

Be careful.

If you're celebrating in bills games this year when they win games, there's not going to be any more close games until, like the end of the season.

That's another thing that I'm going to scold you for.

Every game you're going to go to for a while is gonna be a blowout.

This was a chance for something tense, fun.

>> You can't scold me worse than I've scolded myself.

okay.

All right.

>> That's.

>> That's just fine.

Listeners, if you want to join the program, it's 844295 talk.

It's toll free.

8442958255263 WXXI.

If you call from Rochester.

2639994, email the program Connections at wxxi.org.

Let me read an email from Gary who said the Pagulas are going to price me out of being a fan.

I just don't understand how a bunch of billionaire owners in this league always convince the government to pay for their stadiums, then they raise ticket prices past what I can afford.

What am I supposed to do?

That is from Gary.

I feel for you, Gary.

Man.

Like that's we've kind of talked about that over the years.

Scott.

That's tough when the average fan is wondering if they can afford it.

>> Yeah, I always worry about this.

I mean I've seen this happen in other places.

you know, I think the atmosphere in Cleveland is not what, you know, what it used to be and stuff, since they changed and I saw it at Yankee Stadium, like, they, they, they, you know, they priced out the Bleacher Creatures essentially, you know, like you went from people would be able to sit in the bleachers for $20 a game, and all of a sudden you're charging them 150 and the whole you can just sense you go there and you just see, this is not the same place that it used to be.

So I really feel for you know, there's the thing about bills fans and season ticket holders, many of them, there's a lot of generational fans.

and this is a family tradition.

and this has been passed down from generation to generation.

And, you know, you've got people with eight season tickets that couldn't just not they can't afford the psls.

you know, so I am concerned about that.

you know, and as you said, things are cyclical in the beginning and they'll probably be bad again at some point here.

I mean, every team, you know, goes through these ebbs and flows and ups and downs and and so forth and.

>> Not Cleveland.

It's just bad all the time.

>> Bad all the time.

>> But Cleveland doesn't have any ups.

We just stay down.

So we allow for some franchises like the Ravens don't have any downs.

So it's a neat little equilibrium.

It's fun.

It's fun.

>> But I, I do feel I do feel for the average fan because I think I think yeah, they've, they've they changed the pricing on the psls after there was like, you know, an outcry, a backlash.

Yeah.

I mean, that did come down.

You know, they, they squeezed as much as they could initially and then they gauged it and they said like, well, we better make some adjustments now in, in order to fill this place.

But I think I do think a lot of people got priced out and I feel for them because they're true fans, you know, I mean, and and in some respects it means even more to them.

this is their this is their vacation.

This is everything else.

This is their and and their self-esteem gets tied into as we as we know in sports, you know, how you feel about yourself and your community and so forth.

So I feel for them.

>> Joe's talked about this.

You've traveled, you've seen them on the road and you price in kind of vacation kind of pricing to watch the bills.

That's a big ask for a fan.

But but you do it.

>> Yeah.

And you know likely for us that means not as many away games or or selling a couple home games to to make the away games.

I mean, not only the not only on the PSL side, but, you know, my wife and I did make the decision.

We upgraded where we sat.

It was the same PSL regardless, but we took the higher season ticket cost to get more of the amenities.

As we get older, shorter lines to the bathroom, shorter concession heated areas.

>> You can.

>> Order this.

Are you serious?

>> That's part.

>> Of it.

Well, so we're sitting in the charge bar, but our our cost per ticket right now is roughly about $165 a game.

When you look at it, only regular season games per per seat.

We're six rows from the field in the new stadium.

Six rows from the field.

Our cost per ticket's going to be about $350 a game.

So it's gone.

It's it's certainly skyrocketed.

But to us, we knew the PSL were coming.

It was something we had planned for.

We knew that the tickets were going to increase.

And I just tell my wife, well, I just got to go make more money to support the Buffalo Bills.

Like it's it's not ideal, but but that is unfortunately the cost to having a a football team.

And we're lucky they're still here in Buffalo.

>> And what does your wife say.

>> she says yeah you have to go make more.

>> Money.

>> Does she love the bills?

>> She she does.

she's a huge fan.

I mean, she let she she encouraged bills.

Bills themed celebrations around our wedding, our birthday or our wedding cake was zuba's.

She's willing to use, you know, 1 or 2 vacations a year to go to a bills game or to go to a bills away game.

And she's there every, every Sunday.

Sunday with me.

>> So don't screw this up, Joe.

>> No.

No plans on that.

>> Sandy, for you.

you know, Gary writes in to say that he feels like he's priced out as a fan.

What do you think?

As a fan who's been going?

You've been a season ticket holder since 1973.

I think season tickets in 1973 were not what they are in 2026. worth it to you?

>> Very worth it.

Every minute.

And we decided to get the four tickets like you talked about generational.

I'm hoping that my brothers and their families will use them after me like we did after my dad and I have to say, our season ticket price.

went down a little bit for next year.

>> How's that?

>> I don't know, okay.

they told us what it would be, and we were like, wow, that's really something.

And now, will it be that after the first year, you know, I don't know, but they did go down.

But we had to pay the PSL.

But I look at it as that's my entertainment.

I love it.

I mean, I would give up other entertainment, going out to eat, doing any of that to go to a bills game.

>> and the seat license is different than the seat prices individually.

Is that right?

You got to buy the license, which is the right to buy the seats.

And the licenses range from 750 for upper level end zone seats to $50,000 for club seats, is what I'm reading.

Is that about right?

>> Yeah, yeah.

>> And there was like only 400 of those 50,000.

Like I think that's their corporate sponsors.

It's like, a glassed in box on the 50 yard line.

Like the majority of the psls for the like, we're corner end zone, 100 level.

So, so.

>> Can you disclose what your PSL was?

>> Yeah.

>> Happy to our PSL was $5,000 a.

>> Seat per seat per seat.

>> But as soon as you got the section next to us, it was 4000 a seat.

And then as soon as you got up into the upper rows, it was it was much cheaper.

And I have a friend friend that just bought, bought him at I think $750 for a PSL.

So there, there was price points for everyone.

And honestly the the upper deck in the new new stadium, I've had the, you know, luck and opportunity to go to some of these new stadiums with that stacked seating like those are going to be the best seats in the house.

Like you're going to.

>> See the action really well.

>> That 400 level is going to be by far the best way to watch the game.

>> Sandy, can you disclose what you had to pay for?

>> PSL 2500 2500?

Yeah, okay.

And we're in the upper deck.

at the same seat we had basically in the current stadium.

>> So let me let me get Hoover in Pittsford on this subject.

Hey Hoover, go ahead.

>> Hey, Ivan.

Good program again as always.

You get better every day.

Seriously.

No, you stimulate us in the community.

I don't go to bills games anymore.

And.

And I'll tell you why in a second, but let's do an analysis of why the price, the ticket prices and everything else has gone up.

When you pay a guy over $100 million and you pay people who are banging their heads against each other, you know, $40 million, who's who's who's going to pay for that?

Besides the TV sponsors and the franchise values have gone up.

Look at what's Dallas now?

A billion and a half worth?

>> No, there's a. lot of 10 billion.

>> Or whatever it is.

You know, it's to me, it's kind of laughable.

And I'll tell you why.

my son went to the University of Alabama.

I had season tickets for a number of years.

I went to many, many, many SEC games in different locations, including Tuscaloosa.

And our tickets were quite reasonable for the season.

Tickets.

And we went to a national championship game when we won at the Sugar Bowl, and I got to see an undefeated Alabama team beat an undefeated University of Miami team in the stadium with the cloud of Bear Bryant over the fans.

It was an emotional moment for everybody who was an Alabama fan.

Anyway, my grandson is a senior at Alabama now.

And you know, so the tradition carries on.

But I don't go to the bills games anymore because I went when some of my grandkids and that were a little bit younger.

And what I saw in the parking lot, I tried to explain to them that these are adults who are just having fun, but what they saw was people jumping off of cars onto tables, people puking between cars, people urinating all over the place.

And it was a bizarre behavior.

I was embarrassed, embarrassed to be there with other adults.

So we don't go anymore.

And I'm not going to expose my kids or my wife to that kind of behavior.

But if that's what turns you on, that's fine.

But for me, I'm not doing it, man.

And I'm not paying that kind of money either.

So anyway, I'll turn it back to the people that love the bills because I like them.

But frankly, I used to be a Patriots fan until Belichick left.

So now I at least I cheer for, the bills because I live.

>> In Rochester.

There you go, Hoover.

Thank you I appreciate that.

So Hoover has seen some things he doesn't like.

Sandy, have you ever jumped through a table.

>> No.

>> Never.

You've you've been a Bill season ticket holder since 1973, right?

>> I have not I've seen a lot of people do it, but I have not done it.

>> Could you think you could do it now at your age?

No, no.

It wouldn't end well.

>> Wouldn't end well.

>> What do you think of table jumping?

Are you are you good with it?

>> Sure.

>> It's fun.

>> Yeah.

People laugh.

Have fun I it's okay.

>> okay.

Have you seen some of the stuff Hoover's talking about?

>> You know, I've seen it probably in the 80s.

I have not seen any of that recently, I really haven't.

I really think in my opinion, where I sit and where I go, that just doesn't happen.

I sit with people that we've sat with ever since.

What about.

>> What about pregame?

>> No, no.

>> okay, Joe, have you jumped through a table.

>> Three.

>> And how has it gone for you?

Did you break the table?

>> Broke the table each time?

have a 2 in 1 record when going through tables.

So I, I will go through a table at the last possible home game of the year.

So this year, hopefully that's the AFC Championship game.

And we've only lost one of those that have gone through a through a table.

As for the stuff Hoover's talking about, I think you know, that's using certain special like that's painting the brush of many with the actions of of a few.

I mean any any collection of, of people partying and having a good time is going to do that.

So if you're not going to go to a bills game, then you're not going to concerts.

You're not you're not doing things like that.

But I mean, our tailgates are are a lot of fun.

They're respectful, like they're.

positive energy positive.

Yeah.

Like I don't I don't know why jumping through a table is a bad thing unless you're doing it in a dangerous way or impacting other people.

>> Hold on.

Before I ask Scott how many tables he's jumped through, I think it's zero.

I what do you mean you're 2 in 1 jumping through two.

>> Like the bills have won.

Two of the games have jumped through a table.

>> I thought, like you personally.

Like your body.

Like like only once did you get injured.

>> No, I haven't been.

Well, it I've been hurt, but I've never been injured.

There's a there's a big distinction.

Have you.

>> Been sore the next day?

>> I've been sore for weeks after with some of them.

>> Now you start to feel like what Josh Allen feels like.

You have a lot in common.

>> Well, I'm getting well.

I mean, we the same height.

I'm a little heavier than he is, but.

Yeah.

I mean, to me, it's just it's just people having fun, like, that's that's part of football.

>> Yeah.

For those who've never jumped through a table, what's the psychology of it?

Why are you doing that?

>> I like to be the center of attention.

And when there's 150 people standing out there cheering, cheering you on, or is you is you give a little rah rah speech before you go to walk in the game and then jump off the back of either my truck or my wife's Jeep.

Won't do that again.

With her shocks, I got way too high in the air and it hurt badly.

but it's just it's just something that's kind of.

It's uniquely buffalo, and it's it's a fun experience.

And again, I think it goes back to me just enjoying being the center of attention.

>> Was it cool seeing Jason Kelce appreciate that stuff.

>> Yeah I mean I love Jason Kelce.

Like he's a guy that if I could have put anyone from another team on the bills like Jason Kelce is a Buffalo bill.

>> So even though you're you're you're playing the Chiefs like you were good with some of that stuff.

>> Yeah it.

>> Was good nature.

Yeah good nature.

>> Like my my take on sports fandom is like like again we've been to a lot of stadiums.

I'm good with with some some talk, talk and smack things of that nature.

Like as long as you don't do it with cruel intentions and aren't trying to hurt someone, like it's all in good fun.

It's just it's just sports.

>> I'm with you there.

I one of the one of the dudes I coach in baseball, he told me.

Surprised me.

He told me he's a Ravens fan, and he and his dad were given two tickets, like, right down near the field.

He had never been to a football game, and he was almost in tears for the opportunity to go see it.

I have not spoken to him.

He wasn't at the game this past weekend.

I was I did not get a chance to find out how it went.

Being at his first ever NFL game, loving the Ravens and losing like that.

But I hope he was treated well by bills fans.

That's what I hope.

I hope that he was treated respectfully, you know, because in the end, each other, sure.

But we got to be able to be in a society together where we're not throwing punches.

That's the stuff I don't get at all.

>> Yeah, I haven't seen a fight at a bills game in in years.

Like good.

When they were bad, it seemed to be a regular occurrence.

>> People fought more when they're bad.

>> But now that they're good, I mean, I've seen more fights at away stadiums than I have at, at at the Ralph.

>> That's interesting.

I see in Cleveland there's very little fighting because everyone's already resolved to losing.

I saw a guy wearing a shirt that said we almost always almost win.

And I thought, that's a great way to describe Cleveland fandom.

So, Scott I assume you've never jumped through a table?

>> No.

>> okay.

are you a fan of the practice?

>> I'm really not.

>> No.

>> No, I'm not, I'm not.

I don't get it.

Number one, I think it's destructive.

>> Hold on.

He just.

Joe just described.

>> No, I understand, I understand, and it's not a believe me, I love bills Mafia.

I love the passion of bills fans.

I think the thing I love most about bills fans is their philanthropic side.

You know, when something goes wrong, they're contributing.

I think it's one of I wish every fan base would model that behavior.

I think that's fabulous.

>> Scott's talking about for people who don't know, is when there have been big important games and an opponent has had something happen.

you know, take the Tyrod I think Tyrod Taylor era where they got into the playoffs on that crazy ending.

And the Baltimore game Cincinnati plays Baltimore.

Buffalo needs Cincinnati to win.

If I'm remembering this on New Year's Eve they get into the playoffs.

And the bills fan base floods charitable donations to you know one of the Bengals.

>> Andy Dalton, the quarterback who delivered the victory.

Yeah.

And they've done it other times too.

Like you know with officiating has been a little bit, you know, questionable against the bills they'll donate to a you know, a site you know, for, for the, for the blind whatever.

Oh my God.

Well, yeah, but it's still it is still going.

It's a good positive.

Yeah, yeah.

And and on and on.

You'll see these things.

I like that.

as far as the tables, I just don't get it.

I, I've seen, I've seen a lot of people get hurt.

and I have seen, you know, I have seen fights and they talk about the Browns and the bills when there's a night game security really, really doesn't like that.

That's when the most arrests are between the Browns.

Browns.

And if it's a Browns game in in Orchard Park or whatever, for whatever reason.

And if it's a night game now, they're not going to have to worry about that because the Browns are not good.

So they're not going to be at night or whatever.

But no, I I look I admire the passion of fans.

I think one of the problems and it's gotten better, much better over the years in Buffalo and other places is one of the root causes is just people get blasted, obliterated with the alcohol, and they do things that they would never, ever think of doing.

Behavioral, you know, wise and stuff.

So I think that's gotten better.

There's been more and more restrictions cutting.

I don't know if they still cut beer sales off after halftime.

and this all goes back to Bill Polian because we saw some really unruly behavior during the Super Bowl years and stuff, and they started making movements towards we can't do this anymore.

>> Well, your co-panelists say a lot's changed.

They think it's a very positive for the most part.

and hopefully people know that number one, getting really drunk is never a good idea.

But also if you're there to enjoy a special like a special afternoon or an evening, you know you want to be able to remember it the next day here, you know.

>> And I think, you know what Joe was talking about getting together with his friends and stuff.

I think that's a tremendous thing.

This is because this is what's important about sports.

You know, and about the bills.

When we look at it in our area, you know, we are in such a polarized time, we don't agree on anything.

We agree we have so much anger.

And we finally have we have very few things where we can gather people together and just put all our differences.

>> Doesn't matter who you voted for.

Yeah.

Doesn't matter.

>> Yeah.

And let's not talk about that right now.

Let's not let's like let's like, you know, relate to one another on a human level.

And I think that to me is the power of sports at its best when it's at its best, it can galvanize a community the way it's galvanized this region.

So I, I think that's great.

And I think that's something that appeals.

You see the these outside commentators or players or whatever when they come to Buffalo and they see this reaction and they go like, this is pretty cool.

This is pretty cool.

What this is, you know, the way that, you know, they love it and maybe they, you know, John Murphy, the longtime voice of the bills.

And I've had this conversation like, you know, like they just, you know, people talk about this.

You know, they bills fans invest way too much money, way too much emotion, way too much self-esteem in this.

And it's all right.

It's all right.

To a certain extent.

>> I think Joe and Sandy can attest to that.

Hey, Wyatt, in Ontario, I'm going to take your call after this only break.

Wyatt wants to talk about bills culture versus other teams culture.

And that's an interesting observation.

Scott Pitoniak, longtime sports writer and author is with us here.

I want him to write his eighth bills book about their upcoming Super Bowl win, which they're going to win.

And then we've got a couple of bills season ticket holders, Joe Sayre and Sandy Wright, who's been going to games since before Joe and I were alive.

So amazing stories here.

Let's come right back.

We'll take that call, Wyatt, and more of your feedback on the other side.

I'm Evan Dawson Wednesday on the next Connections we sit down with some Ukrainians visiting Rochester, and we'll sit down with University of Rochester professor Randy Stone to talk about what's going on in Ukraine, about Russia's recent comments about NATO and about their actions in Poland and elsewhere, about the fragile NATO alliance and what happens in the future.

That's coming up Wednesday on Connections.

>> Support for your public radio station comes from our members and from Mary Cariola center, supporting residents to become active members of the community, from developing life skills to gaining independence.

Mary Cariola Center Transforming lives of people with disabilities.

More online at.

Mary Cariola and live.

Presenting An Evening with Rosanne Cash and John Leventhal, Tuesday, September 23rd at 8 p.m.

At the Theater at Innovation Square.

Tickets available online at Theater.

>> Com this is Connections.

I'm Evan Dawson and this is Wyatt and Ontario on the phone.

Hey, Wyatt, go ahead.

>> Hey there.

first of all, let me just say that, I'm not trying to outdo you, Evan, but I've been a Cleveland Browns fan dating back to Frank Ryan.

>> There you go.

>> Handing off to Jim Kelly and Leroy Kelly.

so I've been disappointed longer than you.

Many event.

I was curious, given how particularly the recent hard knocks episodes on the bills.

Really stressed the culture and the interaction with fans.

It was the highlight from the way I was seeing it every week, how these people and it was genuine.

It wasn't.

You didn't feel it was staged.

You felt that there was some real warmth between the fans and the team.

I'm just curious for those who have been lucky enough to see other venues.

I haven't only been to Buffalo, but how that compares with the rest of the NFL.

>> it's a good question.

Scott, you want to start?

>> Yeah, I won that one.

That is somewhat similar.

If you've if you've ever been to Green Bay, Green Bay is kind of similar to Bills Mafia in that you have it's kind of a collegiate atmosphere.

If you've been to a big, big time college game, you'll see this.

I sense that at, you know, at bills games at Green Bay.

But Green Bay, you've got people coming.

There's this little town the size of Greece, and it has this NFL franchise.

And they draw people from all over the state and from Chicago and other states and so forth.

And on game day, I mean, it's just an incredible atmosphere there.

And you see similar things that you see at a bills tailgate.

you know, regulars parking in the same place and grilling in the same place and, and whatever.

So I would say that that is one place in particular that strikes me now.

Kansas City, you know, they they're another regional type franchise to where I think that they, they, they have a similar type relationship.

You know, if you're that small, you know, if you're in a small market or whatever like these, I think you have these closer relationships.

>> You have to.

Right.

>> Yeah.

Yeah.

This isn't New York.

This isn't L.A.

so I think that that contributes to it.

The, the smaller market.

I mean, we've seen it in Cleveland for years.

it was like that too.

I think I think there's a, you know, again, I think it the size of the market has a lot to do with that.

>> Yeah.

L.A.

is an interesting contrast.

Amazing stadium, but all of the electricity of a number two pencil I mean just just a very different thing.

And you've traveled with the bills.

So what would you say to Wyatt there.

>> Yeah.

So I couldn't tell if I was asking about, like, the team culture or the fan.

I think.

>> That's part I think part of it is the an internal team culture too.

>> So I mean, on the fan culture, I fully agree with Scott.

Our trip to Kansas City, a few we went three years ago, I think for regular season game was one of the best experiences I've had at an away game.

You had fans offering offering a barbecue like Kansas City fans.

We won that game on a curriculum and had a big interception in that game.

And they were saying after the game, like, we'll see you in the playoffs.

But on a team culture, you know, you read about it in in the media a lot about these players saying it's different in Buffalo and Joey Bosa saying he's never spent as much time with his teammates over the first, like ten years of his career as he just has in the last six months.

And in Buffalo.

But I don't pay attention enough attention to other teams to have any idea if if the bills culture is different.

I do think what Sean McDermott and Brandon Beane have built in that building is special.

And, you know, a lot of people criticize Sean McDermott, say he's not the guy.

He's 100% the guy.

Like you hear Dion Dawkins talk about him a week ago, about his growth as a person and as a coach over the last seven years.

Like there's certainly a fantastic culture in Buffalo.

And that comes from McDermott being the Pagulas to to a stance.

I know, I know they're involved in the football side and then the people in the locker room.

>> Sandy on the on the the culture in the stands and with the fans.

Has it always been this way?

I mean, or is this a recent phenomenon?

Have the bills always done a good job of fan outreach and making you feel connected, feel valued?

>> I don't think it's used to be as good as it is now.

mm-hmm.

we hear more from our rep.

You know, we get more information from them.

They've even been sending us a couple of gifts.

I haven't gotten.

>> Those gifts yet.

Yeah I've seen them on Twitter.

>> Yeah.

sending us gifts.

but I think it is the culture.

I mean, I've seen people around me.

Their kids grow up and have kids.

You know, I've been there so long and we're like a family.

We see each other outside of football.

Sometimes.

It's amazing.

I've been to 19 other stadiums, and I was trying to think when you asked that question, have I seen anything quite like it?

I can't think of any, really.

I've been to Indianapolis.

I didn't see it there.

I didn't see tailgating.

so-fi.

I wasn't impressed at all with that place and the fans, you know, it's just a different, like you said, a different feel, a different atmosphere.

>> Yeah.

And, you know, there's a lot of Cleveland fans in my family.

And so every, every year in Chautauqua, when we get together for the big family reunion for Christmas, I got one cousin who walks in and annoys half of us from Cleveland, and everybody else knows what to do.

He walks in the door and he puts his bags down.

He just goes, hey, hey, and yeah, and what do they all say, Stan?

They all just do it right back.

>> At us.

Hey.

>> Yeah.

Right back.

And then.

And then it's.

Let's go Buffalo.

And the Cleveland fans are going like, oh.

>> My.

>> Gosh.

But I mean no, it's special.

And this is a special time.

That's why it's going to be amazing all throughout this winter to see what happens when they pull it off.

It's going to be really, really cool.

but why did I think it was a really good point on culture, even within the team?

And I think Joe's Joe's a pretty good defender of Sean McDermott.

I mean, culture matters.

If you have ever coached at any level, I don't care if you've coached Little League.

Your culture matters.

In fact, it literally it matters the most.

But it really culture matters the most everywhere you go.

And that's not easy to set.

You can't just automatically find an X and O's person to be also a good culture person.

So really, really good call there.

Why did I appreciate that?

Here is John who says Evan and guess I too am a member of the Factory of Sadness.

The Browns Factory of Sadness, for those who don't know, is the name of the Browns Stadium.

the bills are second or third on my depth chart.

Cells are a slap in the face of the fan and the consumer.

Because of the New York State taxpayer aid, the super healthy TV contracts to the NFL and franchises, streaming services, and the vending prices that have priced me and my family out of the venue.

My son's PSL cost was $8,000 per seat.

Come on, Mr.

Pegula and Mr.

Goodell get real.

That's from John.

He calls himself a Browns guy.

But you know we've talked about it 8000 for some people as a as a seat license.

That's something you factor into the price of being a fan who wants to be there.

You know go ahead Joe.

You want to jump in there.

>> No I mean I don't disagree with him at all.

Like psls are brutal.

And they're, you know, the Pagulas are worth $7 billion or whatever it is.

I mean, we're seeing it in Denver.

The Waltons are funding an entire stadium and building a district of their of their community.

Granted, the Waltons are worth $100 billion.

So there's a big difference there.

you know, I'm just thankful the state of New York was willing to make an investment in that stadium, because without that investment, I guarantee you there was plenty of other cities and states that would have happily paid much more for the Buffalo Bills.

And and I would have been brokenhearted if the bills ever left Buffalo.

I would stop watching football.

>> This is something Scott Pitoniak said years ago on this program, when there was that debate about it, Scott made the point of number one, if you're if you're upset about the taxpayer investment, that's a valid opinion to have, and there will be a market that will do it.

And that's where they would go.

So, Sandy, for you for years, that point about, you know, the investment, the tax, do you care about your tax dollars?

I mean, do you have any qualms at all about state money going to fund?

>> I really don't, because state money goes to a lot of other things that I don't participate in.

And so I think, okay, that's okay.

And they are the owners are doing the over cost and paying for the over cost.

>> And my guess is the fans in that stadium on Sundays or Mondays or Saturdays or whatever are all different political stripes, but are largely united on this issue.

They wanted the team to stay.

They were willing for the state to step in and do it.

Do you care about the politics of the person next to you when you're there?

On game day?

>> Sandy never comes up.

>> Never comes up.

People don't talk about it, right?

No.

In fact, you probably even want it to come up.

>> Do you know?

>> okay.

You just want to.

You want to high five people and and and celebrate with them.

>> Right.

A lot of high fiving.

>> That's right.

That's exactly right.

That is.

Thank you, Scott Pitoniak, for reminding us that there are still things in this world that can transcend what seems like it has to dominate everything.

It's hard to remember.

Like I say this to my 13 year old, it didn't always feel like, well, how does that person vote?

Why do you care?

Like, why do we?

We care about it everywhere we go, but it didn't always feel that way.

I know it feels existential and raw right now, but we need we need places away from that stuff, don't we?

>> Yeah, I call them talk to my wife about this oasis of joy.

You know that when life is really bothering you and all these, you know extra circumstances here that you have no control over or little control over.

Just got to try to glom onto those, you know, and visit those oasis of joy, whatever they might be for you, whether it's the theater, you know, whether whether it's a football game.

we've got to try to find some commonality or we're just not going to survive.

As a society.

We really aren't.

And so, you know, there's a lot bad about sports.

But I think that, again, at its best, it has this power to bring us together.

And, you know, to to find the humanity in one another and, you know, and unite behind a, you know, a cause.

And you might say it's frivolous, a football game.

All right, so whatever.

But there is some value to it.

>> You know, I think so for sure.

Joel writes in to say that's the power of the NFL and other leagues.

And he does say, by the way, he says new stadium, fewer seats on the backs of taxpayers and more significantly, the Seneca nation.

I love the bills.

And I was at the bills comeback in January 1993 against the Oilers.

So I'm no less a fan than every member of Bills mafia, but no need for us to pay for the stadium.

That's from Joel.

and Patrick has an idea for your next book.

Patrick says for Scott's next book interview, the fans that hold seat licenses find out who they are, what their story is, how long they've been there, and you're going to get great stories with people like Sandy who've been there for decades, who are going to feel that emotion build up there.

So Patrick says, bring it back to the fans, especially the Sandy writes, who've been there for decades.

>> Oh, that's a great idea.

>> For a book.

>> That's a great idea.

Yeah.

>> Can Patrick be your agent?

>> Yeah.

>> Yeah.

>> I need an.

>> Agent.

>> Just ask my wife.

I need an agent.

>> so as we get ready to wrap up here, I just want to thank our guests and listeners.

I just got a note from Art.

listen, in the kitchen over at Lento art says I was there.

I didn't leave early.

So satisfying to hear those Baltimore fans get real quiet.

Go, bills.

Josh Allen is the Goat.

So there you go, Art.

even the kitchen crew over at Lento wanted to let Joe Sayre know you made a mistake.

But you know what?

It's going to be better because you're going to be at every playoff game.

You got that mean when you've got these seat licenses, you're going to the playoff games, right?

>> Yeah.

So you like around the around the beginning of December, you can essentially you'll get invoiced for whatever your playoff tickets would cost.

And they just guarantee you your two seats.

And then like if those games don't happen, you get a refund or put it towards next year or, or whatever.

But yeah, we'll we'll be there and you know, hopefully we'll be in Buffalo watching watching the Super Bowl come, come February.

Not not at obviously the stadium.

>> Where is the Super Bowl this year?

>> new New Orleans.

>> No.

So San Francisco isn't it?

Leave, leave.

I think it is San Francisco because I think Josh gets to go back to his home state to win it all.

If you want to add on to this whole thing.

Right.

Perfect.

You know, perfect storm.

>> But I want to watch it in Buffalo, like at a friend's house in Buffalo so that I can see the city after that win.

>> I'm sure there's going to be some huge party gathering viewing party.

>> Yep.

Confirm there.

Thank you.

Julie.

San Francisco Scott's correct.

So that'll that'll be fun.

February 8th.

For those who are are going to put on the calendar in case you want to head out there and look for tickets and the bills will be there.

but the bills will be home for the AFC Championship.

You'll be at home for that.

>> Yeah.

Is I mean, as long as they get the one seed.

>> At the.

>> Stadium home.

So.

>> Well, they're going to get the one seed.

>> Yeah.

Evan you keep you do this every year though I've got years of text messages with you saying this is the year Joe.

We're on the third year of that.

>> I have never seen an athlete like Josh Allen.

I've been waiting for a quarterback for the Cleveland Browns like this since Bernie Kosar and Josh Allen runs circles around Bernie Kosar.

this is going to surprise you, but Tim Couch and Johnny Manziel did not live up to the Josh Allen level.

And I'm surprised every year when they don't get there, I admit that.

But they're going there this year.

That's it.

That's it.

Drop the mic.

The bills are going to the Super Bowl.

Look at Rob.

Not literally.

Our engineer is knocking on wood back there.

I'm not super I don't control this.

That's not how it works.

That's not how the universe works.

Julie Williams is like you do and you're ruining this.

Sandy, have a great year.

Have a great time with the bills, and I can't wait to talk to you after they win the Super Bowl.

You want to come back here?

>> Yes.

>> Let's bring the same panel back.

Here you go.

Here's an invitation.

February.

Maybe a few days after Super Bowl, you guys have all recovered a little bit.

Come on back.

All right, all right.

You're coming back.

>> Coming back.

>> You're coming back.

And in the meantime, enjoy the season.

Thank you.

A season ticket holder since 1973 went to games at the old Rockpile all the way through.

Thank you for being here.

>> Thank you.

And I want to just add, I love snow games.

>> Snow games.

That's a right.

That's another great tradition.

The throne of the snow.

There's so many great traditions.

Enjoy it.

I know you're nervous about me ruining this for you.

It's happening.

And I'm going to be celebrating with you.

>> It's a it's a great ride either way.

No matter the outcome.

But there's an outcome that we want and hopefully we will get.

>> I might even trip and fall through a table with you.

If they win a Super Bowl this.

>> Year.

I'll hold you to that in here.

When we come back.

>> I don't know about that.

>> I want to see it.

>> I don't think we have enough production capacity.

>> For me to do that on the air there.

>> Looking.

>> I'll bring.

>> The table.

Scott Pitoniak all these great.

>> Books and there's more material to come for you, sir, we enjoy your work in the RBA and elsewhere.

Thanks for being here.

>> Thanks.

And hopefully one of my columns then will be right.

One of my predictions if they win it all.

>> Thanks everyone.

Talk to you tomorrow.

>> This program is a production of WXXI Public Radio.

The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station.

Its staff, management or underwriters.

The broadcast is meant for the private use of our audience.

Any rebroadcast or use in another medium without expressed written consent of WXXI is strictly prohibited.

Connections with Evan Dawson is available as a podcast.

Just click on the Connections link at wxxinews.org.