- Coming up on "American Black Journal," our Black Church in Detroit series examines the current state of civil rights, 60 years after the March on Washington.

We're gonna talk about the church's role in continuing the fight for democracy, for social justice and equality.

Plus, young people share their thoughts on creating a peaceful and united Detroit.

Don't go anywhere.

"American Black Journal" starts right now.

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Thank you.

(upbeat music) - Welcome to "American Black Journal."

I'm your host, Stephen Henderson.

Today we are continuing our series on the black church in Detroit, which is produced in partnership with the Ecumenical Theological Seminary, and the Charles H. Wright Museum of African American History.

60 years ago this month, 250,000 people gathered at the Lincoln Memorial in Washington for the March on Washington for jobs and freedom.

Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., And the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, helped organize this massive march along with other civil rights leaders.

I spoke with black church leader and civil rights activist, Reverend Charles Williams II, of Historic King Solomon Missionary Baptist Church, about the impact of that 1963 March, and the state of civil rights today.

Reverend Charles Williams II, welcome back to "American Black Journal."

- Thank you for having me.

It's always good to be here.

- Yeah, it's always good to see you.

So I do wanna start with the reason we're having this conversation right now, which is that we are coming up pretty quickly on the actual 60th anniversary of the March on Washington, where of course Dr. King delivers his "I Have a Dream" speech, but also lots of other things happened.

It really is a turning point in the Civil rights movement, and its ability to demand that some significant changes take place in the next few years.

We see the passage of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, the Fair Housing Act.

All of the legislation really gets its power and the wind behind its sails, I think at this march.

We are talking before the actual anniversary, and you are planning to go to Washington to be part of that.

But I want to get you just to talk a little about how you're feeling about this anniversary and what's on your mind, what you're thinking about as we really look back to 60 years since this pivotal moment.

- You know, we, first of all, we're marching in the same spirit of those who have come before us.

I think it's very important for us to understand that we're standing on shoulders of individuals who marched to Washington DC, as Dr. King would put it, "looking for this check that's marked with insufficient funds."

But before even that, we considered those like A. Philip Randolph, who was a chief contractor, constructor of the March on Washington that we all are very familiar with, but also had threatened March on Washingtons prior.

The King era or the civil rights era of the march that we herald.

And every time we did it, and every time we've done it, we've been able to see incremental steps of progress for black Americans when A. Philip Randolph first announced the march to Washington.

We were able to desegregate the military forces, and then of course, Bayard Rustin and others thought that it might be important for us to do it again in the civil rights movement, '64 or '65, what we saw, was an opportunity for voting rights to get expanded across the country.

And then from there, of course, as you mentioned, fair Housing and then a Civil Rights Act.

60 years later, here we now see that we still have some issues that are very, very important to Black Americans across this country.

As you well know, in this era of the most, in the most divisive area that I have seen in my lifetime, not to suggest that it hadn't been more divisive, or it's not equally divisive to some of the prior years.

We've got challenges around voting, whether it's in Florida, or whether it's in Georgia, or even in Michigan.

We have challenges around the issues of police brutality as we've seen three years ago, when we witnessed a man with a knee on his neck, named George Floyd.

And I think that it becomes important for us to utilize these tools that have worked for us in the past, because obviously they have made some strides.

So as we move forward, we're marching not just to, for instance, educate a president.

I mean, it's obvious that civil rights organization leaders now have cachet with a president, as well as the vice president, as well as much of the administration across the president's cabinet, and even in the halls of Congress.

However, it's important for us to continue to highlight these issues in this country.

This is the reason why "National Action Network," we consider this not a commemoration.

It's not a dog and pony show.

I mean, there are those who say, "Well, let's, we going back to have a big parade."

No, no, we're not having a parade.

We are having a march, and we have some issues that are very important to us.

I.e.

the George Floyd Police Accountability Act, which still has not passed in this country.

I.e.

the John Lewis Voting Rights Act, which steel has not gotten through the Senate House and on a president's desk.

In the Civil Rights Movement, King's and the strategists who worked with King, I.e.

Bayard Rustin and others, their thought was, is that we have to educate the world- - Mm-hmm.

- About what's happening in this country in regards to black America.

And in doing that, and showing the world, we raise the moral consciousness of this country to have to respond to what's happening in Ukraine, and what's happening across the world.

We have the responsibility to respond to what's happening right here in this country.

So, when a President Biden, and when delegates and diplomats go to world conferences, the question may come up.

We saw that there was a big march that was happening in your country around issues that black Americans are facing.

How are you dealing with that while you are checking me with your American moral authority?

And so I think it's important, as we march in Washington, and as we deliver these messages and hear these speeches, that are broadcast all over the world, to understand that they tried out the way for presidents and for congressional leaders to act.

Because you can't point your finger at any other country when you got three fingers pointing back at you.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

So one of the things I think is really an interesting thing to think about right now is what would work.

As you point out, we have a lot of things that we need done in Washington, we have a lot of things we need done locally.

It used to be, as you point out, that look, if you got enough people out to march, and demand change, that it would happen.

It seems we live in a very different era now.

Talk about how at the National Action Network where you're on the front lines while this... How different does the work look, and what is the call, I guess, to people to get behind and to join, to make sure that we keep the momentum going in terms of change?

- Yeah.

I think it's just important for us to continue to sacrifice our bodies and uplift our voices.

And a time where on January 6th, folks decided to go inside of the capitol and try to so-called take over the country.

I think it makes very good sense for us to continue to use our bodies and our voices.

You know, I think the biggest misconception is that we're doing this under the guise of safety.

It's not safe.

It really isn't safe.

And it, and it really is a challenge to the structure.

It's safe to send a tweet.

Yeah.

It's safe to make a Facebook post.

Yeah.

But when you spend your time and your resources, there is no greater picture of displeasure.

And there's no way to unupset the landscape of this country, than people all over this country, black Americans, white Americans from all over this country gathering together to say that "These issues are here.

I'm going to hold them up and show them to you, and they matter, and you've got to move."

I mean, I think one of the misconceptions is, is that if something goes viral in a tweet or in a Facebook post, that that excuses us from having to put boots on the ground.

Boots on the ground are always, will always be important.

Look, I've been a part of protests with 10 people and 10,000 people, and a hundred thousand people.

And it did not matter how many folks were there.

When people sacrifice their time, their energy, their resources, and they gather together, and they organize, and they stand together collectively, that tradition, that strategy, that tactic will never be denied.

- 2023 is also the 60th anniversary of the Detroit Walk to Freedom, which of course also featured Dr. Martin Luther King, and an early version of his "I Have A Dream" speech.

There was a reenactment of that march here in the streets of Detroit in the summer of 2023.

And "American Black Journal" held a town hall to talk about what's happened over the last 60 years, and about the work ahead.

Here are a few clips from that conversation.

You were a young boy when this march happened, and you attended the Walk to Freedom here in Detroit.

Take us back.

What do you remember about that day?

- Well, actually, you know, my exposure to civil rights movement began before that.

My dad took me everywhere.

You know, I've sat in on planning meetings for the March on Washington that was held in Washington, A. Philip Randolph, all those folks were people that I knew.

And because of my dad's work, and his exposure to violence and the unsafe conditions...

I mean, I lived the Civil Rights movement.

I mean, I was as much a, you know, a non-violent participant in that movement as anyone.

I mean, it was in the ethos of who I was.

So, for Dr. King to come to Detroit, where I had seen him else places, it's really resonated with me for a variety of reasons.

One, I was very familiar with restrictive covenants.

We grew up in a Jewish neighborhood, the only neighborhood where, you know, blacks could live pretty much at one point on the west side.

I knew about stress.

Well, not stress at that time, it was the Big Four.

And black Plymouth furries with, you know, machine guns in the back window.

So to me it was Dr. King coming to not only address what was going in the south, but also the experiences of discrimination, segregation, that we had experienced in the north.

- Reverend Pierce, Dr. King's leadership grows out of the church, and is rooted in the church throughout his life.

Talk about in a religious context today, the way you see that youth leadership stepping forward, and coming together maybe in the same way.

- Young people are beginning to speak up and step up.

In the church, I am proud to say that we're seeing more pastors begin to go back, to using the pulpit to speak to the injustices that we see, to encourage the people that the church is still the forefront, as it always has been, of the social justice movement.

I think Dr. King really encouraged us all through his history, and through what he fought for, and what he stood for.

That has pastors, we have more, more of our responsibility than just to encourage people, you know, part of the Bible, we talk about and pray about, pray to, and preach about a Jesus, a savior who was a fighter for the oppressed people.

And so we have that same responsibility, and Dr. King showed us that.

And I, and again, I'm proud to see that we are equipping and pouring into the generation and the church, as it relates to making sure the social justice still remains at the forefront, even in the church.

- Yeah.

Let's talk a little about Hopewell, and what you see there.

And in particular, what you see young people drawn to, in terms of the causes or the issues, or the challenges that we still face in our communities in Detroit.

What do you hear from them about what motivates this idea that things can be better, and they need to take the lead in making that happen?

- Absolutely.

I think we read more now, right?

We pay attention to what's going on in and around our communities.

And so I think when our generation, from what I hear from my congregants, when they see things going on in the community, when they see things going on around them, they are now triggered to talk, they're now triggered to speak up and fight, and fight in a respectful way, unless we have to fight other ways, right?

And so they are, they are encouraged, they are eager to see the things that our grandparents taught us, the things that history has showed us, to not see that blood sweat and tears go to default.

And so when I talk to some of our congregants, a lot of the, a lot of the injustices that we see, both directly in the community and higher up, it really triggers the fight that's within us.

And so, I'm excited about that.

I'm very excited about that, to see our generation not being quiet, and really standing up and sticking up for what we believe in.

- Talk about later that year, when your mother takes you with her to Washington, to see Dr. King again, and see him give basically the same speech that he gave here, but it's a much bigger stage.

There are way more people.

What was that like?

- That was also exciting.

Let me say, hearing Dr. King's voice, he captivated you regardless to your age.

So to hear him a second time, to participate in a march with, I couldn't tell that it was twice as many people, because I was, I'm only five feet tall now, so I'm sure I was about 4'10" then.

But it was just, you know, massive people all over.

The difference, though, with the Washington, DC march, it was, I'm sure 20 degrees hotter, hotter and humid.

But I arrived early.

And we went to the Washington march because Dr. King asked us in Detroit to come in and join he and others.

We didn't have the fear that something was gonna happen to us, we were gonna be hosed or anything like that.

But we knew that our courage came from a higher authority, so to speak, as Dr. King was a reverend to me, more than he was just a speaker.

Since most of his speeches always referenced scripture.

When you hear that kind of message, you get a different kind of encouragement, and certainly fearlessness.

People weren't afraid to die then.

I'm not afraid to die now, because there's a cause, there's a reason, there's a purpose that we have to fulfill.

- The Church of the Messiah on Detroit's east side, is celebrating the young activists in its congregation, who are promoting peace and unity here in the city.

During this year's 17th annual Arise Detroit Neighborhoods Day, the church held an event where youth leaders presented their strategies for creating a better Detroit.

"American Black Journal" contributor, Deja Moss was there, and has the story.

- Today is a Arise Detroit neighborhood' Day.

And we are celebrating all of the positive things happening in the city of Detroit.

Primarily for the young people, a lot of you do great things.

But the media only want to report the bad things.

The bad things make the news.

But the good things that happen with young people in the city of Detroit sometimes don't do it.

But, today we celebrating all of the positive young people doing great things in the city of Detroit.

So, this is your day.

We here to celebrate you all and the things that you do.

- PPM, that's Peace & Prosperity, Youth Action Movement, which is an organization geared towards young, amazing individuals through the ages of 12 to 18 and 18 to 25.

We talk about and organize around all things, such as identity building, speaking truth to power, and learning how to turn a lot of that pain into purpose, to ultimately help them become the best version of themselves.

- We represent Peace, Prosperity Movement, Youth Action Detroit, AKA, PPM.

We are a youth organization group supported by One Love Global.

We network with another, build collective power, and improve community year 'round.

And our priorities are community safety, ending violence, environmental justice, and education justice.

We recognize these interconnected issues, with racial justice at the heart.

We are here today because we believe youth voice is important when it comes to elections, leaderships, and ending all violence in all forms.

Our opinions matter, even if we can't vote yet, because decisions are being made to impact our future generations and our lives right now.

- Our young people are not just our future, they are our today.

As one of the young ladies said, "A lot of our older people are getting older."

You know.

And so it's time for our young people to stand up, it's time for our young people to have a voice, and it's time for them to move and shake.

What I've learned throughout some of this work, most of this work, is that the youth that we have are brilliant.

We just have to figure out ways to bring that out of them.

If we figure out the right systems and mechanisms to bring out the intelligence, our youth in our communities will flourish.

- As a youth of Detroit, you know, I've seen myself come through the roughs, I've seen other children come through the roughs and make something of themselves when I've seen others give up on us.

And I'm never giving up on Detroit.

- We are intentional on investing in our youth, and building them up to be the best versions of themselves from their own perspectives.

Not how the world sees them, not how society molds them into being, but how they are created, and God's gifts and Gods talents.

- PPM is giving me a opportunity to be someone I really wanna be in life, giving me an opportunity on, I can grow more than just school.

And to be in a classroom, and just sit down and listen and learn.

It's actually given me a lot of room to walk around, look at things from a different perspective.

- PPM has helped me because I was a person who struggled with staying out of, like an angry, as like an angry person.

I was a angry person, and I used to have very bad anger issues.

And PPM has helped me grown to be able to control my anger, and to help me mature as a young lady.

- What I learned is how to communicate.

Communicate is a big part, 'cause usually I just be like, "I'm just gonna stay quiet."

But now I get to (sighs) basically use my voice, and that's basically what PPM about, hearing the youth voice.

- So it's very hard to become what you don't see, right?

And so it's very, very important.

At first, I think that we provide good examples to the youth of what peace and unity looks like.

Because ultimately the only, the backside of that, if you don't do these things, is destruction of your own communities.

So it's very important for the longevity of our communities, for the progression of our communities, that the youth understand these things very early on about why this is essential, for us all to move forward as a community as a city, as a culture, as a people, everything.

- I believe that as we watch our elders, and as we watch leaders from the past, I think it creates an opportunity for young people to step up and see the pitfalls that they have taken, and be able to lead in a place, from a place of integrity and honesty, and transparency.

- I think action is more important than anything.

That's just my, my personal opinion, I would say.

Anytime I've been in a meeting with Pastor Barry, I'm always the one who's like, "Okay, we've talked, what's next?"

Like, all I care about is next steps.

What are we gonna do next to make sure we get our plans into fruition, to actually come out and and be seen in the world?

- Let's go people!

- Oftentimes, the stereotype is that young people don't care about their community, young people are not involved in their community.

Young people are just out being violent, and doing things that are egregious to the the community.

However, today, Pastor Barry called forth a lot of young people who are in the community doing some great work, whether it's in real estate, whether it's in education, whether it's in political aspect, whether even in ministry.

There are a lot of young people here today, who are doing some great things that Pastor Barry is showcasing and highlighting.

- I feel like our youth is facing that, not being able to speak without like an adult bringing them down.

And with PPM, we are allowed to do that, 'cause we have adult speakers for us.

So even if that adult does try to like fight us back or whatever, we know we have people to back us up for it.

- I love to learn this thing called life, alongside our youth organizers and our young adults, and just be the story in a sense that, I wish I knew of, or the story that I wish was read to me, when I was a young black woman from inner city Detroit, who also didn't have many folks in my corner to help me find my way.

- When I'm older, I want my kids to be how I was when I was younger.

I want them to be a part of the PPM and everything, and just show 'em the right way.

Start 'em, start 'em on a good path like I was.

- I am peace.

- I am peace.

- And I am Detroit.

- I am Detroit.

- And I'm making it happen.

- And I'm making it happen.

- We applaud you all today.

God is good.

- Thank you.

(applause) - That's gonna do it for us this week.

You can find out more about our guests, @americanblackjournal.org.

And you can always connect with us on social media.

Take care, and we'll see you next time.

(upbeat music) - [Actor 1] From Delta Faucets, to Behr Paint, Masco Corporation is proud to deliver products that enhance the way consumers all over the world experience and enjoy their living spaces.

Masco, serving Michigan communities since 1929.

Support also provided by the Cynthia & Edsel Ford Fund for Journalism at Detroit Public TV.

- The DTE Foundation proudly supports 50 years of "American Black Journal," in covering African American history, culture, and politics.

The DTE Foundation and a "American Black Journal," partners in presenting African American perspectives about our communities and in our world.

- Also brought to you by, Nissan Foundation, and viewers like you.

Thank you.

(gentle piano music)