- Coming up on "American Black Journal," our Black Church in Detroit series looks at the intersection between politics and religion.

We'll talk about the upcoming Detroit mayoral race, which has two ministers vying for the city's top job.

Plus, we'll discuss how the black church can help get out the vote and promote civic engagement.

You don't wanna miss today's show.

"American Black Journal" starts right now.

- [Narrator] Across our MASCO family of companies, our goal is to deliver better living possibilities and make positive changes in the neighborhoods where we live, work, and do business.

MASCO, a Michigan company since 1929.

Support also provided by the Cynthia & Edsel Ford Fund for Journalism at Detroit PBS.

- [Narrator 2] The DTE Foundation is a proud sponsor of Detroit PBS.

Through our giving, we are committed to meeting the needs of the communities we serve statewide to help ensure a bright and thriving future for all.

Learn more at dtefoundation.com.

- [Narrator] Also brought to you by Nissan Foundation and viewers like you.

Thank you.

(upbeat music) Welcome to American Black Journal.

I'm your host, Stephen Henderson.

Today we're looking at the connection between politics and religion.

It is part of our Black Church in Detroit series, which is produced in partnership with the Ecumenical Theological Seminary and the Charles H. Wright Museum of African-American history.

On Election Day, November 4th, here in 2025, Detroiters are going to cast their votes for the city's next mayor.

And both candidates are also ministers.

So what role, if any, is faith gonna play in running the city?

Also, as we mark the 60th anniversary of the Voting Rights Act, how can the church help increase voter turnout and make sure African Americans participate in the democratic process?

Here to help answer those questions, our reverend Dr.

Theodore Turman, he is president of ETS, and Reverend QuanTez Pressley, who is lead pastor at Third New Hope Baptist Church, and a participant in an initiative, called Lift Every Voice and Vote Detroit.

Thanks to both of you for being here on "American Black Journal."

- Thanks for having me here.

- Yeah.

It's great to have you here.

- So as I said, we have two ministers who are the candidates for mayor.

First of all, I can't remember another time when that was true.

I'm not gonna say it's never happened 'cause I didn't go back and look it up.

But certainly it's unusual, and I just want to get both of your reactions first, to the idea of a pastor in the Manoogian Mansion, which is a foregone conclusion at this point.

Either way, that's what we will have.

What does that mean for the church?

What does that mean for the city?

What does that mean for us as Detroiters?

- It's unusual, but not at all unsurprising, I would say.

I think first of all, the African American Church has long been a space for leadership development.

Many people gave their first public speeches in church.

Many of them learned how Robert's Rules of Order, learned how to run meetings.

And so the African American church has historically been a place, a training ground for future leaders.

So in that regard, I don't think it is surprising, even if it may very well be unusual.

What does it mean?

I think that what it won't mean is a particular advancement of a specific religious agenda outside.

I think both candidates kind of talk about pursuing fairness, pursuing, making sure that all of Detroit is attended to, and that those feelings, those carings are rooted in their faith, but not necessarily that a specific religious tradition will be favored.

And I think that is true, based on both the candidates' track record and their statements of how they intend to lead.

- Yeah, yeah.

QuanTez, when I met you, you were working in politics for the city council.

Now you're a pastor.

So again, the connection between the two is not all that unfamiliar, but we haven't had a pastor as mayor at least in a very long time, if ever.

What do you draw from that?

- Yeah, I mean, obviously my life being this parallel path between politics and religion.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- I have fought against the bifurcation between the two.

I think that faith always informs our values and the quality of life that we expect not only for our families, but also our neighbors.

And so I'm actually encouraged to see that these two candidates will have the opportunity to lead our city.

You know, oftentimes when the climate is as hard as this one seems to be, it is people of faith who have the courage and the fortitude to be able to step up to a very challenging circumstance and to put their hand to the plow to see what work can be done.

So, it is yet to be seen how either of them will lead, but I indeed believe that their faith will, indeed, inform the ways that they lead.

- Yeah.

Do you feel like the church community in Detroit, which of course is large and influential and just part of the fabric of so many people's lives here, will have a different relationship with this administration's next administration, because it's a pastor who's in charge and in addition to being mayor, does it have that sort of effect of elevating the idea of the church community, QuanTez?

- I'm hoping it goes the other way.

- Okay.

- That for whoever ultimately wins, that they will have an appreciation and an understanding of the power and the potency of congregations.

- Okay.

- And as a result, not kind of silo us on the sides, they come and do visitations every now and then, will really being able to see us as partners in being able to create the communities and neighborhoods that our residents and citizens desire.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- I think looking at how both campaigns have been run since the primary, one of the things that you might notice is that many of their community conversations have taken place in congregations.

- [Stephen] In churches, yeah.

- They've utilized these long, established forums for advancing their campaigns.

And so I expect for a teacher, when they become a politician to understand their and appreciate schools, I would understand someone who's worked on the plant to have an appreciation for plant workers and plant life.

And so I would expect someone who's been reared and raised in the local church to understand the value of these communities, and how they can be tools for the advancement of the entire city.

- Yeah, yeah.

What are some of the things that you feel the church community needs that might be more in a spotlight or more highlighted, I guess, by a pastor who was the mayor?

- Hmm, interesting question.

Well, I think first of all, I want to acknowledge the diversity of black churches in Detroit.

- Right.

They're not one thing.

- And so, right, so like, - There are 4,000 churches in the city, I think is the number.

- I think a storefront church's needs are gonna be a little bit different from a multi-site or, you know, a east side versus west side.

So there's a lot of diversity with our needs.

I think all of our constituencies are wrestling with resources.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- They're wrestling with sufficient paying jobs.

They are wrestling with making sure that the educational system is preparing them adequately for the jobs that will be there when they graduate.

I think that with regard to, and I think one of the challenges of the city is better communicating what already exists.

The city has been working so hard, there's a lot to do, but often, our communities don't know what's going on, or don't know what they can take advantage of.

And so we need better pipelines of communication between the city and our local congregations, and the constituencies with which we both serve.

- Yeah.

QuanTez?

- Yeah no, for me, I think there's three areas that I think that the church could really be a value add for whoever the next mayor might be.

After serving on the police commission, I became aware of the enormous challenge that mental health is in our city.

And I think churches could really come alongside our civic organizations to be able to help in that regard.

Secondarily, housing is a real issue, and often the churches are on the front lines of recognizing that issue as people are coming into our places of worship, talking about not being able to pay their rent or losing their homes.

And so if there was some relationship in that regard, that could help.

And then lastly, is around literacy.

You know, in reading our history, most of our ancestors were learning how to read by learning the hymns and reading scripture, and how often that goes overlooked in our context today, knowing how difficult literacy is in our community right now.

I think those are three main areas that the church could really play a powerful role in moving our city forward.

- Yeah.

Have you talked with the two candidates and kind of relayed that idea to them?

And I am curious of what their reaction was.

- Yeah, no, I have not spoken to either of the candidates in depth about those particular issues, but I look forward to having those conversations with whoever comes out the victor.

- Well, they both watch the show, so maybe they'll pick up on that.

Have you had a chance to talk to either of them?

- I've had a chance to talk to one particular campaign, but not both.

I think that this has been a campaign that's kind of divided churches.

- Yeah.

Oh, that's interesting.

- One of the things that it's my hope is that people will sort of talk to the candidates and say, we want to win regardless of who wins.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- And so these are the things that are important to us, and we want to make sure that you are listening to us.

And so, you know, we understand that, you know, it takes certain kind of machinations in order to run and hopefully win.

And that even when you mention things, every candidate kind of turns it to their platform.

And so they say, well, it's really this kind of issue.

So we've done our best to kind of communicate what we think is important in the areas in which we both live and school.

And our hope is that we have a receptive audience after the election.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

So both candidates have talked about the dynamic in the city where, you know, things are getting better in many, many ways for many, many people.

Change is, I feel like on almost every corner in the city.

But at the same time, there are people who are not experiencing that change as much as others, or not experiencing it in a positive way.

And I feel like both candidates have talked about the need to change that, to include more people, to lift more folks up.

And I wonder what that looks like from the church perspective.

I mean, that's a dynamic that I think churches see in their congregations, of course, all the time.

And I wonder what you make of the opportunity to do that and then the obligation to do it, and whether a pastor in that role will be maybe better at keeping that in mind and doing things.

QuanTez?

- I mean, that really is the hope.

I think that, again, as you stated, I think the churches are geared towards a focus and a sensitivity to the unheard, the overlooked, and the left out, the marginalized.

And so to center them in conversations around policy and resource distribution, I think really would be a kind of change in the approach that past leaders have used.

And you know, obviously, you know, as you stated, the change is very evident across our city, but if people aren't feeling that change, it is not effectuating in how they feel included in what's happening here in the city of Detroit.

And so I think it's dual, one, having a sensitivity and focus on those communities, but then being ministers, we should be effective communicators of that.

And so being able to help people to see what's being done so that they can see their place in Detroit's progress.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- On the one hand, you have a stream of politician who is narrowing their focus on who their actual constituents are, right?

We see that on the federal level, really, like the only people I really have to listen to are the people are my people.

I think that ministry leaders have experience in understanding that their constituents is far more broad.

That particularly when we become senior pastors, we understand we're pastoring people.

Unless we won a hundred percent of the vote, we're pastoring people who didn't vote for us, who voted for the other man or woman or what have you, and do not intend to leave the church.

And so I think we have much more experience in listening to the concerns of people who cannot help us advance our agenda in advocating for people who have historically not, necessarily, had a voice.

And so I think it is a unique skill that oftentimes ministers have, and then in this instance, can bring to bear to serve the broad constituency of the city of Detroit.

At least, that's our hope, - [Stephen] Yeah.

- Will take place.

- Yeah.

You mentioned housing in particular, which I think is one way in which the change in the city just plays out really differently, depending on where you are and who you are.

What would you expect, you know, a mayor who's a pastor to understand about housing, I guess that somebody else would not?

- Just the difficult financial burden, - [Stephen] Yeah.

- Keeping a roof over your family's head is.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

Yeah.

- And I think that, you know, - [Stephen] It's an incredible burden in the city.

- Truly, truly.

- And I think a lot of folks who don't experience it or don't have people around them who experience it, really don't understand how bad it is.

- And they would know that it doesn't have a particular look.

- Yes.

Right.

- Because oftentimes we are approached by individuals who have the nice clothes appear to have the appearance of some sort of a professionalism, who again, is living in someone else's home, or transient as far as their housing.

And so I think that, you know, understanding, oftentimes there's an attempt to try to blame an individual for the circumstances that they're in.

And I think that these persons who are informed by their faith will have a greater understanding of the systemic factors that often belie people and put them in these circumstances to make very difficult decisions.

So hopefully that provides them a little extra insight on how to support these individuals and families.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

- As pastors, I think we've all learned, housing affects everything.

Housing affects education, right?

Where you live affects what jobs you can get to.

Where you live affects healthcare, right?

And I think oftentimes, when the community comes to us for support, we've learned over time that there were no easy fixes, there were no quick fixes.

And we've had to learn how to build coalitions, how to build relationships with DTE and Consumers Energy and Thaw and the United Way and all nonprofit, other congregations, other block, you know, neighborhood block clubs.

We've had to learn that it really does take all of these institutions kind of coming together to meet the very basic needs of our citizenry.

And so I think that the complexity of pastoring and sort of understanding that will hopefully translate to the mayor's office.

- Yeah, I do wanna talk about 60th anniversary of the Voting Rights Act.

It's still law on the books.

In some ways, it's changed a lot, been gutted a little, but it's still a very important part of our history and of course, of the power that African Americans have at the ballot box.

And we see that in every election, especially in the city of Detroit.

QuanTez, you're working specifically on this issue.

I wanna give you a chance to just talk about the work that you're doing and sort of where we are with voting rights and voter participation.

And those are two different things, but they're related.

They're both pretty important in Detroit.

- Yeah, it's a fascinating reality to realize that this country has only been a democracy for that short amount of time.

- [Stephen] 50 years.

- Truly a short amount of time.

And it also impresses upon us that it has been our communities that have made America what it has been known to be across the world.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- And so I think that with the initiative I'm part of, Life Your Voice and Vote, it's the church reclaiming that power, recognizing that it is our congregation, the people power who have the opportunity to push the conversation forward and to secure these rights that so many of our fore parents sacrifice their lives for.

And so, you know, as we engage with our congregation, you know, and present for them that it is not only a right, but responsibility to exercise our voice and our vote in every manner that we can.

I think that it helps to push back some of these attacks against our rights and enfranchisement in this country.

- Yeah, and talk a little about the specifics with Lift Every Voice and Vote.

- Yeah, so it's intended to help every registered and eligible vote in our congregation vote at a hundred percent.

- Yeah.

- And the church is one of the few places that meets on a regular basis with the opportunity to communicate clearly to its constituents.

And we wanna be able to activate that constituency in getting the vote out.

And so it's a nonpartisan effort.

We are basically encouraging people to do their research and their due diligence, but above all, make sure that they're registered, their families are registered, make sure they're educated around the issues, and then that they actually mobilize and get out to vote.

And so we've been using technology to ensure that we communicate with congregants.

And even in the primary, we saw that our congregation actually voted at a higher percentage than the general population.

And so after coming out of that effort, I believe we started about 10 churches, now we're at 20 churches, and we're hoping that it continues to grow, seeing again, our congregations as a effective vehicle to ensuring that our community's voices are heard and our votes are counted.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

Getting people to vote is, you know, part of the equation here, and getting 'em to recognize that that's important.

But, you know, the democratic participation that we're talking about, I think goes beyond election day to other things, to talk about the kind of things that are going on in your world with that.

- It's a challenge to educate people on how their government works.

I think when people understand how their government works, it creates realistic expectations.

I think over the years, we did not really understand how fragile democracy was.

And then at the same time, many in our communities did not see our circumstances change, while the politicians rotated.

And so it created a sense of, what does it matter?

And it's really hard to get someone to care, once they finally stopped caring.

- [Stephen] Yeah.

- And so that's what I think- - Yeah, pulling someone back in - Absolutely.

- It's really difficult.

- So I think it's a lot easier to catch 'em before they stop caring, - Yeah, that's right.

- Than it is to sort of get them to sort of reengage, like Maverick in "Top Gun."

But that's still our responsibility to try, - Yeah.

- To sort of remind them what the stakes are, to remind them that people wouldn't be trying to take it away if it wasn't valuable, if it didn't make a difference, if it didn't have the power to actually change circumstances with both an engaged political official who doesn't just take office and then disappear, - Yeah.

- Who will still be in the streets, who will still be putting out commercials about what things are going on after the election, who will still be doing town halls, but then also to remind the citizen that they have a responsibility to be engaged, - Yeah.

- After November as well.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

I want to give both of you a chance to talk about what you would say to the two candidates, the day after the election.

One of 'em is gonna win, right?

And I would really love to know if you had 10 minutes with that person, what things you would say to them about what was ahead, and I guess what the expectation really would be from the church community about what they would do and what they would do first, and how they would approach the job?

QuanTez, what would you say to them?

- God be with you, you know?

Truly.

- First, right?

I think we would all say that.

- Yeah, but the chasm in which they're stepping into leadership is unprecedented, you know?

And obviously we're focused on the local level, but the local level exists among state politics and federal politics, which, you know, it's just a lot, it is a lot.

And, you know, unfortunately, you know, what would be my kind of emphasis, and I think a lot of, you know, faith leaders and also believers is an area where the mayor really has little control, which is around education and then seeing at the federal level, you know, what kind of assaults are happening.

I mean, that's gonna be a really, a difficult lift.

- [Stephen] Yes.

- But then obviously, you know, as I spoke earlier, housing and mental health, I really do think would be the ones that I would really kind of press hard on them being focused on because they're just such extraordinary issues in our community, and everyone is touched by it in some degree.

- Yeah.

Yeah.

Theodore?

- Number one, I would say be here.

- Yeah.

- We need you to be the mayor of the city of Detroit, not a candidate for another office.

And so we really need you to lock in on Detroit.

Over communicate.

I think as pastoral leaders, one of the things that has gotten us in most trouble was when we just assumed, because we had the office, we could do whatever we wanted and we'll catch the people up whenever.

And I think that as an executive leader, you benefit from communicating to your constituency as often, as transparently, as quickly as you can.

Even when things aren't going well, please communicate, be a collaborative leader.

And so one of the things that we're asking the mayor to do, whoever the candidate is, is make the table bigger so that there are more voices, so that we can have a better conclusion, a better resolution to these issues, because more factors were brought into the conversation.

And so just build a bigger table and we will support you.

- Yeah.

- We will challenge you.

We will hold you accountable.

We will tell you when you are wrong.

We will celebrate you when you are right.

But you will be our mayor regardless of who you are.

And we're rooting for you.

- Yeah.

- We're rooting for you because we're rooting for us.

- Yeah.

- And so, you know, God bless you, and let's get to work.

- Yeah, yeah.

- Yeah.

- I mean, I can remember during both the Kilpatrick and the Coleman Young administrations, the really close relationships that they had with the religious community in the city.

And I think we're headed toward something more like that than we've seen in some other times.

And so it's kind of an interesting development.

It'll be something to watch.

All right.

So, you know, I was gonna ask both of you to say who's gonna win, but I know that's not okay.

- Detroit is gonna win.

- There you go.

I love that.

- That is the right answer.

- Absolutely.

- That's right.

All right, well it was great to have both of you here.

Thanks for coming by.

- Thanks for having us.

- Thank you.

- So that'll do it for us this week.

You can find out more about our guests at americanblackjournal.org, and you can connect with us anytime on social media.

Take care, and we'll see you next time.

(upbeat music) - [Narrator] Across our MASCO family of companies, our goal is to deliver better living possibilities and make positive changes in the neighborhoods where we live, work, and do business.

MASCO, a Michigan company since 1929.

Support also provided by the Cynthia & Edsel Ford Fund for Journalism at Detroit PBS.

- [Narrator 2] The DTE Foundation is a proud sponsor of Detroit PBS.

Through our giving, we are committed to meeting the needs of the communities we serve statewide to help ensure a bright and thriving future for all.

Learn more at dtefoundation.com.

- [Narrator] Also brought to you by Nissan Foundation and viewers like you.

Thank you.

(bright music)