>> CROSSLEY: WELCOME TO "BASIC BLACK."

SOME OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON OUR BROADCAST AND OTHERS OF YOU ARE JOINING US ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

I'M CALLIE CROSSLEY, HOST OF "UNDER THE RADAR," 89.7.

TONIGHT-- LIVING ABROAD WHILE BLACK.

WE, LIKE YOU, ARE DEALING WITH THE EFFECTS OF THE CORONAVIRUS PANDEMIC AND ARE TAKING PRECAUTIONS.

WE ARE WORKING WITH LIMITED STAFF, AND OUR GUESTS ARE JOINING US REMOTELY.

>> CROSSLEY: GHANA, COSTA RICA, LONDON, PARIS AND THE CARIBBEAN --THE TOP PLACES WHERE BLACK AMERICANS HAVE FOUND A NEW HOME OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES.

IN THIS SO-CALLED "BLAXIT," OR BLACK EXIT, MANY ARE ESPECIALLY MOTIVATED TO LEAVE BEHIND THE OVERT RACISM UNIQUE TO AMERICA.

IN FACT, THE NUMBERS OF EXPATS OF COLOR HAS RISEN SHARPLY DURING THE LAST FEW YEARS, LEAVING SOME TO CALL IT THE SECOND GREAT MIGRATION, AFTER THE FIRST ONE FROM 1916-1970 DURING WHICH 6 MILLION AFRICAN AMERICANS LEFT THE SOUTH, HOPING FOR BETTER OPPORTUNITIES IN AMERICA'S NORTH AND WEST.

WHO ARE THESE MOTIVATED RUNAWAYS?

AND ARE THEY FINDING WHAT THEY WANTED?

TO BE FREE OF A WHITE GAZE THROUGH WHICH THEY ARE ALMOST ALWAYS SEEN AS LESS THAN?

JOINING US REMOTELY: AUDREY EDWARDS, JOURNALIST AND AUTHOR WHO LEFT NEW YORK FOR PARIS AFTER DONALD TRUMP WAS ELECTED PRESIDENT-- SHE IS ALSO THE AUTHOR OF THE BOOK, "AMERICAN RUNAWAY: BLACK AND FREE IN PARIS IN THE TRUMP YEARS;" MUHAMMIDA EL-MUHAJIR, A DIGITAL MARKETER WHO MOVED FROM NEW YORK TO ACCRA, GHANA IN 2014; CHRISHAN WRIGHT, FOUNDER OF BLAXIT GLOBAL AND HOST OF THE "BLAXIT GLOBAL" PODCAST; AND ZENA MARTIN, AN EXPATRIATE WHO LIVED IN LONDON AND PARIS FOR 20 YEARS BEFORE MOVING BACK TO THE U.S. TO BE CLOSER TO FAMILY.

>> Crossely: WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU.

LET'S START WITH YOU, MUHAMIDA.

LIVING IN GHANA FOR SEVEN YEARS.

THOUGHT ABOUT -BGS TENSIVE TRAVEL TO SETTLE THERE.

WHAT WAS THE PHENOL MOTIVATION FOR YOU TO MOVE TO GHANA?

>> WELL, INITIALLY WHEN I CAME IT WAS FOR A ONE YEAR FELLOWSHIP.

I DIDN'T JUST LIKE DROP EVERYTHING AND MOVE RIGHT AWAY.

I THOUGHT THAT WOULD GIVE ME AN OPPORTUNITY TO SORT OF GET MY VOTE WET.

I SAW A LOT OF CHANGE AGAINING TO HAPPEN DURING EVEN OBAMA'S ADMINISTRATION.

I FELT LIKE THIS TENSE, YOU KNOW RACIAL TENSION I HADN'T FELT BEFORE.

IT JUST MADE ME VERY SENSITIVE AND I BEGAN, I CAME TO TPWAUPB A ON A TRIP.

ON THAT TRIP IS LIKE THIS IS IT.

I STARTED TO PLAN AND WITHIN SIX MONTHS I CAME TO START MY FELLOWSHIP FOR A YEAR AND STAYED ON AFTER THAT.

>> Crossely: I WILL ASSUME THERE ARE NO REGRETS?

>> NO, NEVER.

NOT A DAY.

I KEEP THINKING MAYBE I'M IN LIKE THE HONEYMOON STAGE.

I THOUGHT AFTER THE FIRST YEAR.

OKAY.

THE SECOND YEAR.

OKAY.

FIVE YEARS.

YOU KNOW, NOW SEVEN YEAR ITCH, I DON'T KNOW I AM HERE AND LOVE IT EVERY DAY.

I HAVEN'T HAD ONE REGRET.

YES THIS IS HOME FOR THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.

>> Crossely: OKAY, ZENA YOU MADE IT OVERSEES WHEN YOUR EMPLOYER SAID YOU COULDN'T MOVE ON BE HALF OF THE COMPANY.

YOU DID ANYWAYS.

>> I DID.

KREFPLT WHAT WAS THE MOTIVATION FOR TO YOU LIVE ABROAD?

>> FOR ME IT WAS BASICALLY THAT I REALLY WANTED TO EXPERIENCE LIVING SOMEWHERE ELSE.

I HAD LIVED IN SEVERAL PLACES OF THE UNITED STATES.

HI A SENSE OF ADVENTURE.

SO, MUCH LIKE MUHAMIDA I THOUGHT IT WAS A ONE-YEAR ADVENTURE.

ONE YEAR TURNED INTO TWO.

TURNED INTO A YEAR IN PARIS.

TURNED INTO FIVE YEARS WHERE I ACQUIRED DUAL CITIZENSHIP.

THEN THE NEXT THING I KNEW IT WAS TWENTY YEARS.

I LOVED EVERY MINUTE OF IT EVEN WHEN IT WASN'T ALWAYS PERFECT.

>> Crossely: NO REGRETS TOO, RIGHT.

>> NONE WHATSOEVER.

Crossely: OKAY.

AUDREY, YOU WROTE A BOOK ABOUT WHY YOU LEFT.

"AMERICAN RUNAWAY."

EXPLAIN IT, EVEN IF YOU FELT THAT.

A LOT OF BLACK PEOPLE SAID, I WILL LEAVE THE COUNTRY IF TRUMP IS ELECTED.

DID YOU IT >> I DID, CALLIE, I DIDN'T THINK I WOULD HAVE TO.

I SAID IF TRUMP IS ELECTED I WILL LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

I DIDN'T THINK FOR FOR A MINUTE THAT WOULD HAPPEN WHEN IT DID HAPPEN I KNEW PEOPLE IN PARIS.

I THOUGHT HOWEVER I WAS GOING TO BE IN PARIS ONLY THROW MONTHS.

I REALLY THOUGHT THAT IN THREE MONTHS THE UNITED STATES WOULD REALIZE A MISTAKE HAD BEEN MADE.

TRUMP WOULD BE OUT.

BOY, WAS I WRONG.

SO, I WENT FROM THINKING I WOULD BE AWAY FOR A LITTLE BREAK TO REALLY THINK ING ABOUT HOW WILL I MAKE THIS MORE OF A PERMANENT MOVE.

>> Crossely: WHEN YOU REALIZED IT WAS WOULD MORE OF A PERMANENT MOVE WERE YOU FEELING OKAY ABOUT IT, NO REGRETS IN TERMS OF MAKEING THAT MOVE?

>> YOU KNOW I HAD NOT THOUGHT OF BEING A TERMINANT EP PAT.

I'M NOT PERMANENT E PAT NOW.

COVID DERAILED BY STAY IN PARIS.

I CAME BACK DURING THE HOLIDAYS.

WE WERE HIT WITH A LOCKDOWN I'M STILL HERE WAITING TO GO BACK.

LIKE ZENA I HAVE FAMILY, A SON, GRAND CHILDREN.

SO I'M NOW THINKING OF PARIS AS A SECOND HOME.

I HAVE ALWAYS HAD A SECOND HOME.

I HAVEN'T HAD A SECOND HOME INTERNATIONALLY.

I'M COMFORTABLE WITH, I LIKE HAVING ANOTHER PLACE TO BE.

ANOTHER PLACE TO HAVE COMMUNITY, ANOTHER PLACE TO HAVE FRIENDS, ANOTHER PLACE TO HAVE TO NAVIGATE AND MANAGE A LIFE THAT APPEALS TO THE RUN AWAY IN ME SO TO SPEAK.

>> Crossely: YOU KNOW THAT RUN AWAY HAS A DOUBLE THING.

IN THIS CONVERSATION, YOU MEANT THAT, AUDREY.

>> YES I TALKING ABOUT THAT IN THE BOOK.

RUNNING HAS BEEN PART OF OUR HISTORY FROM THE BEGINNING.

>> Crossely: YES.

CHISHAN, YOU HAVE TRAVELED EXTENSIVELY.

NOT YET LIVED ABROAD.

YOU ARE READY TO GO.

YOU STARTED A PODCAST AND INDUSTRY AROUND HELPING YOU AND OTHER FOLKS THINKING ABOUT IT SERIOUSLY AND DOING IT, TO GET IN POSITION TO LIVE ABROAD.

WHAT IS MOTIVATING YOU TO WANT TO LIVE ABROAD?

>> THAT IS A GREAT QUESTION.

I FEEL SO FREE WHEN I'M ABROAD.

IT'S, IT'S ADDICTIVE.

YOU KNOW, TO BE OUTSIDE OF THE U.S. AND SEEN AS A PERSON FIRST.

IT IS JUST SO LIBERATING.

I LOVE TRAVELING THE WORLD, MEETING OTHER PEOPLE, BEING EMBRACEED P EVERY COUNTRY I HAVE BEEN IN.

I JUST DON'T HAVE THAT UNFORTUNATELY THAT SAME EXPERIENCE WHEN I'M IN THE STATES.

>> Crossely: I WANT TO PICK UP ON THAT.

BECAUSE WHAT YOU HEAR, PART OF YOUR GLOBAL PODCAST IS TO INTERVIEW EX PATS ABOUT THEIR EXPERIENCE.

OF COURSE WE TAKE WHO WE ARE WHEREVER WE GO.

THEY'RE EXPRESSING DIFFERENT EXPERIENCES AS YOU HAVE FELT IN A SHORT-TERM WAY WHILE TRAVELING.

WHEN YOU TALK TO ALL OF THE FOLKS THAT YOU TALK TO, I SHOULD PHEPBLGS YOU HAVE TEN THOUSAND PEOPLE LISTENING TO YOUR PODCAST.

WHAT ARE THEY SAYING?

BLACK FOLKS, ARE THEY SAYING I NEED TO BE SOMEPLACE ELSEWHERE I DON'T HAVE TO BE BLACK FIRST?

TELL ME ABOUT THAT.

>> PEOPLE ARE, WE GET REAL CLEAR ON YOUR WHY.

YOUR WHY IS WHAT IS GOING TO SUSTAIN YOU.

YOU KNOW, WE -- I TRY TO REHE FORCE THAT.

JUST LEAVE THE U.S. OR WHAT YOU CALL HOME WON'T REMOVE EVERY ISSUE YOU HAVE.

FOR FOR SOME IT CAN BE ECONOMICS, RACISM, BEING SHUT OUT OF OPPORTUNITIES AND FEEL SIMILAR TO ME THAT ABILITY TO BE FREE AND BE SEEN AS A HUMAN BEING.

NOT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO, YOU KNOW NEGATE WHERE WE COME FROM OR THAT WE'RE BLACK.

IT'S JUST KNOWING THAT AS BLACK PEOPLE OF THE DIASPERA OUR SPORES ARE SPRINKLED ALL OVER THE PLANET.

THERE IS NO PLACE WE CAN'T OR SHOULDN'T IN HABIT.

IT'S BEING ABLE TO BREAK FREE OF THAT CONSTRUCTING OF THE URBGTS STATES.

IT'S UNIQUE TO THE UNITED STATES AND REALIZING YOU CAN ACHIEVE THE AMERICAN DREAM BUT OUTSIDE OF AMERICA.

>> Crossely: SO, ZENA, EXPLAIN TO SOMEONE LISTENING TO THE CONVERSATION THAT HASN'T BEEN ABROAD ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE OF BEING BLACK IN AMERICA AND BEING BLACK IN LONDON AND PARIS, PRIMARILY, FOR YOU.

>> THE DIFFERENCES ARE VERY MUCH WHAT CHISHAN WAS SAYING.

YOU'RE OFTEN SEEN AS A PERSON FIRST.

YOUR COLOR MAY OR MAY NOT MATTER.

THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE ISN'T RACISM.

AS CHRISHAN THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO EXPERIENCE RACISM.

FOR MY CASE IT WAS MORE INSTITUTIONAL.

SOME OF MY JOBS.

SOME WERE FABULOUS.

OTHERS NOT SO FAST BECAUSE OF THAT INSTITUTIONAL RACISM.

YOU DO FEEL THAT SENSE OF FREEDOM.

THERE IS NOT THAT SAME HISTORY, ALTHOUGH OBVIOUSLY SLAVERY EXISTED IN THE U.K. AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THERE ISN'T THE SAME, YOU KNOW, THE CHAINS, THE BURDEN THAT YOU CARRY WITH YOU PERHAPS THE FEAR THAT YOU MAY EXPERIENCE JUST WALKING AROUND.

ONE OF THE THINGS I ABSOLUTELY LOVE ABOUT LONDON AND PARIS IS THE DIVERSITY OF SO MANY PEOPLE.

WHEN YOU'RE ON PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION OR WALKING AROUND.

HEARING THE DIFFERENT LANGUAGES.

SEEING LOTS OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE WHERE AS I WOULD SAY THAT IN MANY PLACES IN THE U.S.

UNLESS IT'S A REALLY BIG CITY, YOU KNOW, THERE IS A LOT OF SEGREGATION STILL.

YOU KNOW EVEN SAY IN CHURCHES OR THINGS LIKE THAT.

THAT, THAT I REALLY ENJOYED JUST HAVING THAT SENSE OF FREEDOM.

BEING ABLE TO TRAVEL TO SO MANY OTHER PLACES WITHIN TWO HOURS YOU CAN BE IN ANOTHER COUNTRY AND SOAK UP THAT CULTURE.

THAT WAS TRULY WONDERFUL.

>> Crossely: SO, MUHAMIDA, YOU'RE PRIMARILY IN A BLACK COUNTRY.

YET, IT'S NOT AMERICA.

HAVING LIVED IN NEW YORK.

HAVE YOU LIVED EVERYWHERE, LIVING IN NEW YORK EXTENSIVELY AND NOW THIS, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE IN TERMS OF RACISM PLAYING ITSELF OUT OR NOT?

>> I WILL SAY THIS, I WENT TO HOWARD UNIVERSITY, YOU KNOW SOMETIMES I JOKE THAT LIVING IN GHANA IS LIKE HOWARD BUT LIKE THE COUNTRY.

[LAUGHING] >> YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

OF COURSE WHEN -- I ALWAYS LIKEN IT TO LIKE A BLACK COLLEGE EXPERIENCE, RIGHT.

I MEAN AT HOWARD MY GOD IT BLACK EXCELLENCE, IT'S BEAUTIFUL.

IT'S EVERYTHING BUT THERE IS THIS DYSFUNCTION THAT YOU KNOW BLACK PEOPLE HAVE, YOU KNOW SOMEONE IS STEALING FUNDS IN THE A BUILDING.

MOST RECENTLY STUDENTS HAD LIKE -- YOU KNOW ISSUES WITH THE WATER OR MOLD IN THE DORMS.

YOU'RE LIKE THIS IS 2020, WHAT IS GOING ON.

IT'S LIKE THIS LOVE/HATE THING.

RACISM IS NOT THERE.

RIGHT.

THERE IS ALL OF THESE OTHER THINGS THAT BLACK FOLK GOT ALL OVER THE WORLD.

SO, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW OVERT RACISM LIKE THAT MAY NOT BE A ISSUE.

THERE IS, THIS IS A VERY INTERNATIONAL METROPOLITAN CITY.

MOST TO BE FARE, MOST OF THE BUSINESS CLASS COMMUNITY ARE FOREIGN.

SO THEY'RE LEBANESE, THEY'RE FRENCH, THEY'RE ENGLISH.

YOU KNOW THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT -- THERE ARE CERTAIN PLACES THAT WE ALL KNOW WE'RE NOT GOING.

WE DON'T FEEL LIKE IT'S AFRICA THEY WANT THEIR SAFE SPACES, RIGHT.

SO, YOU KNOW THERE ARE RACIAL ISSUES THAT EXIST.

IT'S NOT LIKE, I DON'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH THEM UNLESS, YOU KNOW, I PUT MYSELF, YOU KNOW, IN THOSE PARTICULAR CIRCUMSTANCES.

SO, THAT IS WHAT I WOULD DEFINITELY SAY.

IT'S DEFINITELY, YOU KNOW, ANY OF YOU HAVE ATTENDED OR BEEN TO A BLACK COLLEGE CAMPUS, YOU KNOW, THAT IS, THAT IS THE BEST EXAMPLE THAT I CAN GIVE.

>> OKAY, MUHAMIDA.

HU, YOU KNOW.

COME ON.

AUDREY, YOU HAVE WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY IN YOUR BOOK ABOUT JUST BEING STARTLED BY NOT GETTING THE REACTION THAT YOU WOULD GET IN THE UNITED STATES.

EXPLAIN.

>> WHAT I HAVE ALWAYS SAID ABOUT FRENCH, CALLIE, THEY LET ME BE.

I GO NO THE RITZY RESTAURANT OR RITZY DEPARTMENT STORE.

THERE ISN'T A VISCERAL REACTION TO MY BLACKNESS.

I'M NOT FOLLOWED, THAT HAPPENS IN AMERICA.

PEOPLE DON'T LOOK AT ME LIKE, WHY ARE YOU HERE?

THAT HAS HAPPENED IN AMERICA.

THE FRENCH GRANT YOU TWO THINGS.

ONE, YOUR HUMANITY AND YOUR AUTONOMY.

THAT MEANS I CAN SIT, I CAN SIT IN A CAFE ALL DAY.

I HAVE DONE THAT AND NOBODY BOTHERS ME.

NOBODY BRINGS ME THE CHECK INDICATEING IT'S TIME TO GO NOW.

THEIR ATTITUDE IS YOU ASK FOR THE CHECK WHEN YOU'RE READY TO GO NOW.

THAT'S A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE THERE.

IS ALSO A FEELING OF SAFETY.

MOST EUROPEAN COMPANIES I DARE SAY ALL DON'T HAVE AMOUNT OF GUNS AS IN AMERICA.

I DON'T WORRY SOMEONE IS GOING TO MUG ME.

I DON'T WORRY I WILL GET INTO AN ALTERCATION AND SOMEONE WILL PULL A GUN AND SHOOT ME.

THESE ARE THINGS I WORRY ABOUT IN NEW YORK AND THE UNITED STATES.

IT'S MORE PREVALENT OUTSIDE OF NEW YORK.

THERE IS THE FEELING OF BASIC RESPECT FOR YOUR HUMANITY.

WHICH ARE LITTLE THINGS YOU WOULD THINK BUT IN AMERICA WHERE THAT IS RARE, IT BECOMES HUGE WHEN YOU'RE OUTSIDE OF AMERICA.

>>.

Crossely: SO, CHRISTAN, THE PEOPLE YOU INTERVIEW MUST TALK ABOUT BUILDING A COMMUNITY.

THEY'RE NOT THAT MANY OF US WHERE WE GO, EXCEPT WHERE MUHAMIDA IS.

SO THIS WOULD SEEM TO BE SOME SENSE, PERHAPS, YOU TELL ME WHAT YOU'RE GETTING FROM THE INTERVIEWS THAT YOU, FROM THE PEOPLE YOU TALK TO WHO HAVE LIVED ABROAD EXTENSIVELY.

DO THEY FEEL A LOSS OF COMMUNITY OR IS THEIR COMMUNITY A DIFFERENT THING?

WHEN I SAY COMMUNITY I MEAN BLACK COMMUNITY >> ABSOLUTELY WE ARE AS PEOPLE AS BLACK PEOPLE WE'RE VERY COMMUNAL.

AS SOON AS WE GET SOMEWHERE WE WANT TO FIND SOMEONE ELSE.

SO, I THINK AT THIS TIME IT'S REALLY SPECIAL BECAUSE WE HAVE TECHNOLOGY TO FACILITATE THAT.

YES, I HAVE BLAXIT GLOBAL.

THERE ARE FACEBOOK GROUPS AND YOU HAVE DIGITAL COMMUNITIES.

THEN PEOPLE MAKE THE CONNECTIONS AND GET TOGETHER WHERE THEIR NEW HOME COUNTRY IS.

THERE IS ALSO COMMUNITIES LIKE BLACK IN BALI.

SO IT'S REALLY SPECIAL THAT YOU KNOW PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO LEVERAGE TECHNOLOGY TO GET THAT SENSE OF COMMUNITY AS WELL AS WHAT I THINK IS UNIQUE ABOUT THE BLACK EX PAT EXPERIENCE.

EVEN WHEN WE MAKE THE JOURNEY TO AN ADOPTED COUNTRY WE STILL HAVE AN ABILITY AND DESIRE TO POUR BACK IN TO ENCOURAGE OTHER PEOPLE TO MAKE THE JOURNEY AS WELL.

>> Crossely: ZENA, WAS IMPORTANT TO HAVE A BLACK COMMUNITY IN LONDON?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

WHEN I I FIRST MOVED THERE THE PARTICULAR KNOWLEDGE GEE DIDN'T EXIST.

NO SOCIAL MEDIA OR PODCASTS.

I'M AGING MYSELF NOW.

SO I HAD TO FIND MY COMMUNITY, MUCH OF WHICH PROBABLY WAS INDIVIDUAL INSTEAD OF GROUPS.

NOW, THERE IS A CHAPTER IN LONDON, THAT DIDN'T EXIST WHEN I FIRST MOVED THERE.

THINGS LIKE THAT.

YOU DON'T HAVE THE GROUPS THAT PERHAPS WE HAVE IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO, I MAKE FRIENDS BUT DIDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE A WHOLE BLACK COMMUNITY.

I DIDN'T HAVE, YOU KNOW MY CREW BASICALLY.

SO, THAT WAS MORE CHALLENGEING.

THEN I ALSO JUST REALLY POURED MYSELF INTO CHARITABLE WORKS.

I SERVEED ON BOARDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

THAT WASN'T NECESSARILY BLACK COMMUNITY BUT AT LEAST IT WAS COMMUNITY.

THAT CERTAINLY HELPED.

KREFPLT MUHAMIDA, YOU TALKED ABOUT THE EMBRACING LARGE COMMUNITY.

DID YOUR AMERICAN AMERICANESS SET YOU APART IN AFRICA.

DOES THAT MAKE A DIFFERENCE BUILDING COMMUNITY IN A MOSTLY BLACK COUNTRY?

>> I'M DEFINITELY A FOREIGNER.

YOU KNOW.

ALTHOUGH IF I'M JUST WALKING AROUND ON A DAY TO DAY AND NOT TALKING, NOBODY KNOWS THAT.

I MEAN I AM, YOU KNOW, AN AMERICAN SO THERE IS A LOT OF CULTURAL DIFFERENCES, YOU KNOW.

I HAVE TO LEARN, THIS CULTURE THAT I'M IN.

ALSO TRY TO HELP PEOPLE UNDERSTAND MY CULTURE AND PERSPECTIVE AS WELL.

SO, YOU KNOW MOST PART I FEEL I'M EMBRACEED IN THE CIRCLES I'M IN.

ALSO I HAD A LOT OF RESPECT FOR, YOU KNOW, THE PEOPLE AND THE SOCIETY HERE.

LIKE I, THE WAY I APPROACH IT.

I'M NOT LIKE, I'M AMERICAN AND I KNOW EVERYTHING.

WE'RE SO MUCH BETTER IN THE WEST.

YOU KNOW THE TYPICAL.

I'M HUMBLE.

I HAVE TRAVELED MY WHOLE LIFE.

I LEARNED THAT ALONG THE WAY.

PEOPLE SAY YOU DON'T SEEM LIKE AN AMERICAN.

SO, YES.

I JUST TRY TO BLEND IN AND CONNECT AS MUCH AS I POSSIBLY CAN.

I HAVE, YOU KNOW THIS YEARNING TO UNDERSTAND, YOU KNOW, I FEEL LIKE I'M CONNECTING WITH MY LOST CULTURE EVEN THOUGH I HAVEN'T DONE DNA TEST OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

I'M LIKE THIS IS THE GROUND THAT MY ANCESTORS WALKED AND I WANT TO UNDERSTAND THE MUSIC, THE LANGUAGE I LOVE GOING, THIS ONLY MAKES SENSE IN GHANA.

IN THE SHANTI CULTURE FUNERALS ARE A HUGE CELEBRATION.

I LOVE GOING TO FUNERALS.

THAT'S ONE -- >> Crossely: WAIT THAT SOUNDS LIKE NEW ORLEANS.

COME ON NOW.

>> EXACTLY.

WE GOT IT AUTHENTIC.

THAT IS WHEN I FEEL I'M TRANSPORTED THROUGH TIME.

YOU KNOW ALL OF THESE PEOPLE I SEE DRIVEING CARS AND SUITS.

YOU SEE THEM SUDDENLY WITH TRADITIONAL CLOTHES AND YOU KNOW THE CHIEFS COME OUT.

YOU KNOW IT'S LIKE YOU'RE TRANSFORMED TO A DIFFERENT TIME.

I LOVE BEING ABLE TO CONNECT WITH THAT.

I FEEL I'M REESTABLISHING LIKE, YOU KNOW, LIKE A PERSON WITH AMNESIA.

I'M REBUILDING WHAT WAS LOST.

EVEN THOUGH, YOU KNOW, I TRY NOT TO STAND OUT AS AMERICAN UNLESS IT WILL BENEFIT ME.

OTHERWISE I LIKE TO JUST BLEND IN AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE.

>> OKAY.

>> THERE ARE TIMES TO BE AMERICAN AND TIMES NOT TO BE.

>> I BET THERE ARE.

>> AUDREY YOU HAD A BIT OF A COMMUNITY ALREADY.

YOU SPENT TIME THERE BEFORE.

YOU WENT THIS TIME POST TRUMP YOU HAD A BIT OF A BUILT INCOMMUNITY.

DID YOU FEEL YOU WERE MISSING COMMUNITY?

>> NO, ONE OF THE REASONS I CHOSE PARIS, CALLIE, THERE IS A HISTORY OF BLACK AMERICAN COMMUNITY.

THIS IS A HISTORY OF BLACK AMERICANS GOING TO PARIS SEEKING REFUGE FROM AMERICAN ACEISM.

THE HISTORY STARTED IN WORLD WAR I WHEN A NUMBER OF BLACK AMERICAN SOLDIERS WERE FIGHT AGO LONG SIDE THE FRENCH.

THEY DEVELOPED RELATIONSHIPS.

THE FRENCH DEVELOPED A REAL RESPECT AND ALSO REFERENCE FOR BLACK AMERICANS FOR OUR HISTORY, STYLE, MUSIC, LITERATURE.

THERE IS THIS SIM BEE OTIC SIMBIOTIC RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE TWO.

I NOW PEOPLE IN PARIS.

MY ROOMMATE FROM COLLEGE, A WHITE GIRL AS I CALL HER MARRIED A FRENCH MAN.

I LIVED WITH HER WHEN I FIRST TRIED TO RETIRE TO PARIS IN 2007.

AT THAT TIME THE EURO AGAINST THE DOLLAR WAS JUST TOO STRONG.

I COULDN'T AFFORD IT I HAD.

I KNEW BLACK AMERICANS WHEN I MOVED THERE AND MET MORE WHEN I MOVED.

THE SENSE OF COMMUNITY HAS ALWAYS EXISTED IN THAT CITY WHICH IS REALLY ONE OF THE REASONS I CHOSE IT PLUS IT'S A BEAUTIFUL CITY, EXTREMELY GORGEOUS.

I LIKE FRENCH PEOPLE.

I MAB ONE OF THE FEW PEOPLE THAT ACTUALLY LIKES FRENCH PEOPLE.

PEOPLE SAY THEY'RE A A ALOOF AND ARROGANT.

IF YOU CREATE THIS STYLE AND BEAUTY YOU CAN BE ARROGANT.

I'M NOT MAD.

I GIVE IT TO YOU.

>> Crossely: CHR ISHAN, IN YOUR CONVERSATION DO YOU SEE OR FOAL THE DRUM -P BEAT OF MORE BLACK AMERICANS LOOKING TO LEAVE.

WHERE IS THE CONVERSATION ON YOUR PODCAST NOW.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

MUCH TO MY SURPRISE.

THE PODCAST IS LESS THAN A YEAR OLD.

WE HAVE GROAN.

I HAVE SEEN PATTERNS.

UNFORTUNATELY WHEN THINGS ARE, YOU KNOW ROUGH IN AMERICA WHETHER IT'S POLITICAL LANDSCAPE OR POLICE INTER ACTION WITH SOMEONE YOU SEE A INFLUX OF PEOPLE.

THERE ARE MORE PEOPLE THAT ARE CURIOUS AND WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT'S LIKE IN COUNTRY X.

WHAT IT'S LIKE FOR BLACK PEOPLE.

WHAT IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW TO MOVE YOUR CAR OR REALLY A BIG THING FOR MANY EX PATS IS ONE CREATING THE SENSE OF COMMUNITY.

ALSO PREPARING YOUR FAMILY AND THEN MAINTAINING THAT CONNECTION.

YOU CAN BREAKUP WITH AMERICA.

YOU CAN'T NECESSARILY AS EASILY UNTANGLE YOURSELF FROM YOUR FAMILY.

YOU KNOW JUST MAKING SURE THAT WE GIVE PEOPLE THE RESOURCES AND TOOLS TO HAVE THOSE CONVERSATIONS.

TO, YOU KNOW, THEY KNOW IF THERE ARE CHALLENGES THAT BLAXIT GLOBAL CAN BE A SUPPORT SYSTEM AS WELL.

>> Crossely: ARE YOU SAYING IN THE PAST THERE MAY OF BEEN MORE, MAYBE OR MAYBE NOT BUT NOW PEOPLE ARE JUST GOING.

>> YES.

DEFINITELY.

WE USUALLY HAVE OPPORTUNITIES FOR PEOPLE TO PUT THEIR DATE.

I KEEP TRACK OF PEOPLE.

WE WILL CELEBRATE THEIR MOVE AND JUST YOU KNOW CHEER THEM ON AND BE A SUPPORT.

EVERY DAY THERE IS A CHALLENGE.

IT MAYBE A CHALLENGE GETTING RESIDENCY.

IT MAYBE A CHALLENGE FINDING A JOB OR STARTING A BUSINESS, WHATEVER IT IS.

WE'RE THERE TO SUPPORT IN ANYWAY.

>> Crossely: LAST SECONDS, WHEN ARE YOU LEAVING CHR ISHAN?

>> 2023.

AS SOON AS MY DAUGHTER GRADUATES HIGH SCHOOL I AM MAKING MY MOVE.

>> Crossely: WHERE YOU GOING?

>> RIGHT NOW IT LOOKS LIKE COSTA RICA.

MY EXPLORE TORY TRIP IS LATER THIS YEAR.

>> Crossely: ALRIGHT.

WE WILL LEAVE IT THERE.

I THANK YOU ALL FOR JOINING ME ON THE BROADCAST.

THAT IS THE END OF OUR SHOW.

THANKS TO ALL OF OUR GUESTS AND THANK YOU FOR JOINING US.

STAY WITH US AS WE CONTINUE OUR CONVERSATION ON FACEBOOK AND TWITTER.

♪ Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org