From WXXI news.

This is connections.

I'm Evan Dawson.

Our connection this hour was made on Monday evening when the polls closed in Canada, and the Canadian people made a decision that looked impossible just three months ago.

In January, the Canadian Conservative Party looked certain to take power in the next election, with Pierre Poilievre in position to be the next Prime Minister of Canada.

Justin Trudeau was leaving power and the Liberal Party was in retreat.

And then came the new Trump administration.

And then came tariffs.

And then, rather inexplicable came repeated calls from Trump to annex all of Canada and make Canada the 51st American state.

And Canadians rallied back to the Liberal Party, away from conservatives.

It was enough, just enough to send Mark Carney into a full term as prime minister and for Pierre Poilievre, not only to lose his chance at leading the country while you have even lost his seat in Canadian Parliament.

In an interview with The Atlantic, Trump said, quote, you know, until I came along, remember that the conservative was leading by 25 points and then I was disliked by enough of the Canadians that I've thrown the election.

They really don't like Trump, end quote.

And it is hard to argue with that.

This stunning reversal has rocked not only Canadian politics, but the state of the relationship between the United States and Canada.

This hour, we discuss what elbows up means.

We'll talk about what this portends for the alliance between the two nations.

We'll talk about the state of tariffs, the economy and what comes next.

And we've got sound that we're going to play for you coming up from Mark Carney, from Pierre Poilievre.

And from President Donald Trump.

Let me welcome our guests in studio.

Is a dual citizen of the United States and Canada and a retired software network engineer.

Earl Dunbar, welcome to the program.

Thanks for being with us.

Thank you for inviting me.

And on the line with us is Craig Needles, who is a radio and podcast host in London, Ontario.

Craig, welcome back to the program.

Evan, glad to be back.

I mean, how do they blow this?

Craig.

Now, this is where Craig and Earl might argue a little bit, but I'm going to start with Craig because I've been reading what you wrote here.

How did the conservatives blow this election?

Craig?

there's a couple things.

One, I don't think they reacted quickly enough to the Trump issue, and that to some extent is not necessarily their fault.

I don't think anyone expected Donald Trump to start musing about 51st states back in December.

But then he did and they didn't react quickly enough.

So there's that.

Secondly, they they grew their tent pretty significantly in this election.

They got a very high vote total, but they clearly didn't grow it enough.

The liberals got more votes, so they clearly had to find more ways to appeal to voters and would hear this in American elections, too.

In suburban areas, it's not so much downtown Toronto where the conservatives lost this thing.

They were probably never going to do all that well there.

It was suburban Toronto, suburban Vancouver, suburban Montreal, where they need to pick up more seats that they didn't do.

Let me ask Earl, if you think it's fair to say that the Canadians or the Canadians, the conservatives in Canada blew this, or was it something different?

It was a different equation.

Well, I think they did blow it, but I think the roots of blowing that were planted some time ago when Pierre Poilievre decided to go almost nuclear.

Right.

he not very friendly to the press at all.

he's not very likable, to most people outside his base.

So when when Trump did what he did, I knew this would blow up on the conservatives.

But the big thing is that Pierre Poilievre had two themes.

One is Trudeau needs to go.

And the other one was, ax the carbon tax.

Right.

Which is a consumer tax on carbon, which over 80%.

correct me if I'm wrong.

of of Canadians get rebates every quarter.

So most people don't really suffer except when they see it at the gas pump.

There was like $0.15 a liter, difference, I believe.

So when Trudeau stepped aside, I think Justin Trudeau did the calculus and realized that if he stepped aside, that him as a, an issue would be gone and would take a big chunk of of Poilievre squishy support away.

when your enemy is gone, you can't rail against him anymore.

In fact, Mr. Poilievre has been saying, well, Carney is just like Trudeau, and no one really believes that.

Well, let me ask you about this, Earl.

And then I want to ask Craig about the same point.

So and I'm going to I'm going to, from my limited experience with Canadian media, because I don't see it every day.

But I'm going to defend what we have on one point here.

You say that he, you know, sort of started attacking the media and the most famous clip of Pierre Poilievre that at least I have seen is the apple clip he's eating.

He's eating this apple.

He's talking to reporters.

And for those who don't like him, it comes off as smug.

And so I kept hearing about this clip before I saw it.

Like, you got to see this clip of Paul.

I mean, like, look how smug he is.

He's, you know, and yet the reporter asking him questions is saying things like, well, there's people who are saying that, you know, you're sounding a lot like Trump these days.

And he's like, yeah, who's saying it?

And he's like, well, people.

He's like, I don't know, like who?

And the the reporter is like, well, I don't know.

And he's like, well, I was like, well, you're the one who says people are saying, I mean, yes, it is very direct, but I don't think the journalist was very prepared for that interview and it didn't come off as very smug to me.

It came off as very direct, I guess, to the point you're making is that he had a tinge of smugness that people didn't like.

You think?

Yeah, he I think he did.

And I agree with you that the journalist wasn't very well prepared or asked a question that he couldn't follow up on.

All right.

and Craig can can maybe give some more light on this that, you know, he's done other things and the conservatives have done other things.

They've been behaving was that are like the Trump and MAGA crowd of dismissing the fake news.

So if you follow Canadian politics on X, or even blue Sky now, you'll find some of the same language coming out.

Right?

So he got tarred and feathered a little bit.

I characterize as maple MAGA.

Right.

He's he supported the, freedom freedom convoy, in Ottawa.

I was serving them Tim Hortons Donuts, etc..

So I think there were a number of people who said, yeah, I don't really like Justin Trudeau.

And that was based on to a certain extent, I think, personality, the way he comes across Justin Trudeau is very intelligent, but he can come across as a bit, you know, know it all right.

To some people.

And the housing crisis in Canada, was it is a big factor.

it's ironic to me that the housing, housing policy and, promotion of new housing is a provincial responsibility.

There's really not a lot the federal government can do, although they have done something, you know, and they they have funneled money into the provinces where there are agreements in place to, to increase that.

So the anger over inflation, the anger over to some extent, Covid restrictions and the economy overall was translated to Justin Trudeau.

And then he leaves and as you say, all of a sudden, the biggest attack target they had.

Right.

That was the number one attack target.

And the second attack target was the carbon tax, which I mentioned.

Right.

And what is Mark Carney do?

Day one.

He canceled the consumer carbon tax.

That's the second big issue gone.

Right.

So now Pierre Poilievre has to pivot.

And he floundered in that for a while.

He came across yes Canada first and everything.

But people who were sort of maybe tending to to support the conservatives were like, well, yeah, everybody's going to say that for the most part, except Danielle Smith in Alberta, the premier of Alberta.

Okay.

No Craig Needles, what a couple things there.

First of all, the apples, the apple clip.

Did that come off as a big problem for Polly to you?

not necessarily individually because the the point you guys made.

I think it's true.

If you're going to go what Polly up with you sound like Trump.

You best come correct.

Right.

And the pointer to the reporter in that situation did not come correct.

however, there have been Polly of news conferences and one that I was at.

It was here in London.

He did a news conference about crime, and he was asked what I thought was a pretty fair question by a CTV journalist.

And his response was to go essentially looking for a fight.

So it felt like, hey, let's brawl with the media wasn't so much a result of things the media had done, but he was going to look for it.

So individually, the Apple clip, the the bug me all that much?

No, but it was part of a pattern that may have turned some people off.

And hey, maybe some supporters thought it was great, I don't know, but it may have turned some people off.

So, on the on the Apple clip front, I would say it was, you know, in the eye of the beholder, I suppose.

But the journalists there, probably needed some backup for his point.

we're working to get sound issues corrected so I can play some sound from election night for you.

And we'll do that coming up here.

Listeners, if you want to weigh in on the Canadian elections, the future of this alliance and this relationship between the United States and Canada, you can do that by calling toll free.

844295 talk.

It's 8442958255263 WXXI for calling from Rochester, 2639994.

You can email the program connections@xxi.org.

If you're watching on the YouTube channel on Sky news.

Hello, you can join the chat there.

Let me ask Craig and Earl a little bit about the dynamics, because we're using terms that American media consumers understand in American context, which is conservative and liberal.

And when you look at Pierre Poilievre before January, he did spend a lot of time evoking the language of at least the social critique on the right, which is he used the term wokeness, he used the term, you know, and he that he was an anti-woke candidate, that he was an anti-Covid restriction candidate.

And conservatives in this country can relate to all of those things.

But that doesn't mean that being a conservative in Canada is a good match for being a conservative in the United States.

And let me start with Craig.

you know, so probably I was going to thread this needle for people who in his party who like Trump or at least like him on social terms, he's using some of that language, but then he spends the last three months trying to establish himself as a bulwark against Trump and tariffs and and an unfair treatment from the American leadership.

What does it mean to be a conservative in Canada these days, and how closely does that look to you?

Like American conservatism?

it depends on which branch of Canadian conservatism we're talking about here, because there are some Canadian conservatives who loathe Donald Trump, who think that he is economic chaos on both sides of the border.

And, hey, let's be honest, conservatives used to hate tariffs up until about four months ago.

and Canadian conservatives in a lot of cases still do.

but now there are some who would, who want to say, oh, yeah, no, Trump's the way of the future.

And this is the way we're going to get conservative policy passed is by acting like this guy.

So Polya found himself with a problem in, he couldn't go to heart after Trump because some of his base would be turned off by that.

But he had to go after him a little bit because he knew that Canadians in general were really, really angry about some of the things Donald Trump was saying 51st day tariffs, all these things so poorly he found himself in a very, very difficult position trying to ride both sides of the fence there.

And, you know, that's position that would be difficult for anybody to be in.

And they didn't do a great job.

But I think it would be very hard to effectively, taken care of both sides of that particular issue.

What I compare this campaign to, or at least the Trump part of this campaign, is the liberals were flat lining there.

We were hearing the beep on the machine.

They were flat lining.

Trump was the paddles that got the heart going.

You know, it brought them back to life.

It didn't deliver them the election.

There were some other things that did that.

But Trump was the paddles that brought them back from the dead earlier.

Can you muster any argument that says absent Trump's reelection and not only his reelection, his talk about tariffs, his action on tariffs, and the talk about a 51st date, could the liberals have won this election?

It would be difficult, right?

I think that's an understatement.

Yeah, yeah.

it was a big factor.

It was a it was a it was a huge factor.

Okay.

So then what does it mean to be a conservative and how does that look.

You're a dual citizen right?

When you hear conservative in Canada, do you think of something different than you think of in the United States these days with conservatives?

Yes, I, I may be off base on this, but I consider them to be less far right as a group.

Right.

And it's geographical as well.

I think the big factor in, in this election that made it so close and tilted the liberals to push the liberals to a minority government, meaning they don't have the majority in the House of Commons.

was how well the, the, the conservatives did in around Toronto, not downtown Toronto, not Toronto proper, but Mississauga, Brampton, Richmond Hill and Windsor, where Windsor has been a fairly strong NDP New Democratic Party, which is for their left.

And the liberals, got, I think, shut out except for one seat in Essex County, which is sort of south of Windsor.

so you end up losing that one.

It flipped at the end.

The conservatives wound up taking it.

Oh did they.

Yeah.

So there it is.

It was tight though.

It was very tight.

It was it was tight.

But the conservatives wound up taking an NDP stronghold seat.

But that's not what you want if you're the NDP.

No not not at all.

And there was the collapse pretty much of the NDP overall.

Well, and to that point, I'm glad Earl brings this up.

And by the way, in just a moment, I'll take Paul and Brighton.

I'll take your call.

We're going to talk elbows up in a moment here.

but I'm glad Earl brings us up, because, Craig, I want you to tell us a little bit about, I have a, I was in touch.

I was reading some of the comments from a Canadian I know in the Rochester area who was lamenting the idea that this is the election, that Canadian politics starts to look a lot more like American politics, in that it looks more like a two party system.

It looks like the other parties are really collapsing into tiny single digits, and it becomes really bifurcated.

What do you see there, Craig?

Needles.

it's definitely a consideration.

Outside of Quebec and Quebec, it's still three parties because the Bloc Québécois still has still has a lot of stake there.

But yeah, here in London, as an example, this happened in a few spots in Ontario, in Windsor and in Hamilton, there were seats that were thought to be NDP strongholds, seats.

So this is the the left of the liberals party.

And they get a lot of support from union folks and people on the left of the political spectrum.

And a lot of those voters left the NDP, but not necessarily for the liberals.

For the conservatives, a lot of blue collar NDP peers who have their union cards were voting for the conservatives and to echo the point that you were talking about earlier, that is a little bit like American politics from the perspective of some of the things we've seen in Michigan or in Ohio, where the union card holding folks, not all them, but some of them that used to be reliable Democrats are voting for Trump in a big show.

So we we've seen some patterns that way in Western politics.

And I think that is obviously very, very concerning for the NDP and sort of a silver lining for what happened on Monday for the conservatives, whereas their tent has grown a little bit here.

All right.

So let me grab Paul and Brian who wants to jump in here on the phone.

I do want to jump in and elbows up.

Maybe this is this is this is very interesting.

I, I mean, I've seen this and nothing more than obviously a rebuke.

could Trump at his 51st state, you know, jib jab and all this, I mean, I'm thrilled about this.

I'm thrilled for my friends in Canada.

and again, I don't know all the ins and outs.

again, I was curious.

I'm glad you mentioned Quebec.

I was curious how, how they factor into this, but, like I said, I couldn't be happier about, the way this worked out, because we had a I think the Canadians had a chance to.

We had a mini mini Trump in waiting there.

Just look at some of his, you know, his his rhetoric and stuff.

It was just like, no, no, no, this just can't be, so I again, I don't know how your, your guests see this, but, so, so Paul, before I, before I throw it to them, let me just ask you, have you ever followed a Canadian election this closely?

actually, yes, I have, because, long story short, Toronto Maple Leaf fan forever, West.

Yes.

So when newspapers used to be available, I would buy 2 or 3, Toronto papers a week, when they were available here in Brighton at a really cool newsstand that's long gone.

But, yeah, I actually have followed it.

And, I can even find flimflam on a map.

If I had to.

yeah.

I'm just a big fan of Canada, and I was just so, I was actually on a radio show on the CBC called, cross Country Checkup a month or so ago where they were asking, Americans to chime in on our thoughts on this whole thing.

And, you know, I was I just couldn't believe, you know, hearing the bullying that the anthem was and just all that junk that was going on.

Well, it was just so, Canadian and so, Canadian.

American when you lived out, born in Buffalo, lived near the Peace Bridge, learning how to play hockey in Fort Erie.

I could go on and on.

And just for the junk as well.

I'll just jump in here.

Paul, let me just say thank you for the phone call.

I will say the booing of the American anthems at Canadian sports.

I've never seen that.

And that is remarkable, seeing liquor stores wipe American products off their their shelves and put by Canada signs that in an almost overnight response to the tariffs was pretty remarkable.

We've talked about that on this program in the last couple of months.

And Paul go Leafs in in lieu of the sabers being a playoff team, which maybe they never will be, we'll say go Leafs.

I'm kind of like you in that I know where Peterborough and the coauthors are because I listen to Barenaked Ladies and because they know Canadian politics all that well.

We all have different connections there.

but he likes the idea of elbows up.

He felt like, I don't know, Irwin when he said that polio seem like a mini Trump is.

Did you feel that way about polio?

to to some extent, I don't think he is as vicious now and as, you know, as Donald Trump.

it's a high bar, right.

and you mentioned Quebec.

Right.

And so one of the things that I thought about early on, and I think it it transpired and maybe Craig, you could, you know, chime in on this is that it's a this is a big threat to the cultural identity of Quebec, 51st state, a francophone province.

I don't think so.

So you saw some growth in liberals, in Quebec.

You saw the, the Bloc Quebecois, fall down.

They lost.

I don't know how many seats Craig can speak to that.

And by the way, shout out Craig for the best years of my life I lived in London, Ontario, was on Adelaide Street.

And, I love, love, love, love London.

So there's the other thing is that nationwide, to some extent, there is a stronger connection to Europe and Trump's attacks on NATO and all his associates who, you know, trash you in private conversations, trash, Europe.

They hate Europe, right?

I'm a big Francophile.

I started French in grade five.

I became almost fluent until I no longer was in a French environment.

My son, my son worked in Paris for almost six years.

My grandson was born in Paris.

I've been there.

I love Europe.

And I think you'll find that, you know, a lot of Canadians as well.

And there's a big Ukrainian population.

In fact, Edmonton, it jokingly has been called Edmund Chuck.

because because of a large, my first roommate in Toronto was Roger Miller.

Chuck.

and so for Trump to desert, in many people's eyes, Ukraine and to cozy up to Putin, know and to to be openly dismissive of Europe in the way that he and Vice President Vance and others have been, the way they've treated Denmark over Greenland.

You think these things factor in a good number of Canadians?

Yeah, I think it's I think it's a feeling.

Right.

You know, like this doesn't feel right.

so and and we still have, a constitutional monarchy, you know, we have a king doesn't have anything to do with daily politics or or policies.

but it's there and there's a strong tie to to Europe, to Britain, to Europe and Britain.

Greg, you want to weigh in on that?

yeah, there's definitely some of that.

So, I'll go with a couple of the provinces that that Earl just mentioned here.

So Quebec, the story there is that the results for the governing party in Quebec were the best that anyone's had since Trudeau, which doesn't actually sound that crazy until, I tell you, Pierre Trudeau in 1980.

Right.

So it's been a little bit since the governing party has done this well in Quebec.

I guess Mulrooney in 88 would have done would have been pretty close to this either way.

the liberals haven't done that well there since since since 1980.

And I think that a lot of what Earl was saying about Quebec being this, you know, there were is distinct society, and it's the French Canadian society.

Hey, we don't want to deal with the United States.

Our way of sort of pushing back against that is we're going to elect Mark Carney.

We're going to elect Liberal members of Parliament.

I think that makes sense.

There.

Alberta.

It's a tougher nut to crack for the liberals.

Obviously, there's the belief, their well-founded belief that the conservatives are going to be friendlier to the oil production and ways to sell oil.

So therefore the conservatives have a huge advantage in Alberta.

But there was some in the cities conversation about a trump, elbows up and so forth.

So that definitely would have been a factor.

And the liberals didn't have as as disastrous a showing as they normally do in Alberta.

We'll say that, elbows up as a hockey term, Craig noodles.

Right.

Yep.

It's a hockey term.

Hey, you're in the corner.

Is there someone digging out the puck next to you?

Get your elbow up and make sure you you handle that situation.

And that's become sort of the the mantra here in Canada amongst many, not everybody when it comes to what's going on with the United States elbows up.

And Mike Myers is sort of been the guiding force here.

He's going on stage on Saturday Night Live after playing Elon Musk.

And, you know, he's pointing to his elbow.

And as everyone's waving goodbye and waving at night and and wearing a Canadian Tire t shirt.

So that's become a big thing.

Mike Myers, for folks who don't know, was in election campaign commercials endorsing Mark Carney that we're seeing very, very regularly on Hockey Night in Canada broadcasts before the election came to a close.

So, that was a big part of what was going on around here.

Some people didn't love the elbows up thing, but it definitely helped the liberals more than it hurt them.

Put it that way, listeners, you're hearing Craig Needles, who's a radio and podcast host in London, Ontario, is so good.

It's so good to have Craig back on the program.

Earl Dunbar in studio with us, who's a dual citizen of the United States and Canada, and he's a retired software network engineer.

And on the other side of our only break of the hour, I've got sound.

I want you to listen to from election night.

I thought some things that Mark Carney said, you know, we're probably going to be boilerplate, obvious, but some were seemed to me to be designed to draw a direct distinction between himself and Donald Trump.

You'll hear that next.

We're going to listen to some of what Pierre Poilievre said on election night.

And I want to listen to some of what President Trump said just yesterday, about the situation.

There will also take some of your feedback if you want to share some of your feedback.

I've got a really good question about the youth vote, Canadian youth vote move toward the conservatives pretty significantly after, just like in this country being sort of a stronghold of more left leaning politics.

So that trend that showed up in the United States, especially among younger men, also showed up in Canada.

We'll talk about that and a lot more on the other side of our only break.

Coming up in our second hour, there are three candidates for mayor in the Democratic primary next month in Rochester.

The incumbent, Malik Evans, city council member Mary Lucien.

And the third candidate is someone without government experience.

Josh, you seen her.

He believes that that stands as a as a plus in his favor, and he's going to talk about why he's running, why he loves the city and why he wants to lead it.

Next.

Our.

Donating your used car to easy can make a huge difference to the whole community.

When you give your car to our vehicle donation program, it helps to support the independent journalism and great music.

You and so many others rely on every day.

For more information, visit Cyborg's car or call 1-877-308-2408.

This is connections.

It's going to be a packed second half hour, so let's move fast here.

Jack in Greece got to keep it tight.

Hey Jack go ahead.

Hey, hey.

Thanks so much for taking the call.

I didn't catch the whole conversation.

My apologies, but I just wanted to dial in and say, the what your guest had mentioned just a little bit earlier about, Ukrainians and Ukrainian population in Canada, and, we frequently go across the border.

We're so close, especially during the winter time.

We like to take advantage of Niagara, the lake, the beautiful town.

And one of the waitresses at one of the at the Prince of Wales Hotel was a refugee from Ukraine, and it was so powerful to speak with her.

And and this happened to be last winter and she was thanking us so much for we were providing so much help at the time to Ukraine.

And they were so happy to be in Canada.

And what struck me is, you know, how close we think, thank you to Canada.

I don't think of you as another country.

I think of Canada as our neighbor, a good neighbor.

And just to see the whole rhetoric around the 51st state, let me when we were up in Niagara on the Lake, just about, also this year a number of times.

So the last time was about a month ago.

And, and some of the people were so angry and you had to talk to him for a little while because you know, that that the they said, you know, I've got a good at home.

And he'd come and try to invade medium and the see that changed so quickly.

It's just heartbreaking and I just hope will be honest.

So thank you for yeah thank you Jack I mean I'll echo.

Yeah.

may I have many more occasions to visit Niagara on the Lake, man.

Never have to go to a bachelor party again in Niagara Falls.

That's how I feel.

But, big difference when you see the Niagara.

And, to Jack's point about that anger, I think the anger really galvanized when it became less of a joke and more I mean, even five days ago, four days ago, The Atlantic put out the full transcript of their interview with Donald Trump from last weekend.

I mean, this is less than a week old.

And here is what he said.

2 or 3 different journalists interviewing him about a lot of things.

And he brought up Canada.

He said, well, the Canadians, here's the problem I have with Canada.

We're subsidizing them to the tune of $200 billion a year.

And we don't need their gasoline.

We don't need their oil, we don't need their lumber.

We don't need their energy of any type.

We don't need anything.

They have, I say, would make a great 51st state.

I love other nations, I love Canada, I have great friends.

Wayne Gretzky is a friend of mine.

I mean, I have great friends.

It's by the way.

So we were reading his comments like the stream of consciousness thought, I'm gonna try to finish this.

It sounds very strange, he said.

I said to Wayne, I'm going to give you a pass, Wayne.

I don't want to ruin his reputation in Canada.

I know they don't like me.

I said, just pretend you don't know me, Wayne.

But they're great people, you know, they do 90% of their business with us, remember?

If they were a state of ours, no more tariffs, they'd have lower taxes.

We would have to guard them militarily.

And Goldberg says to them, so you seriously still want Canada to become a state?

And Trump says, yes, I think that would be great.

I think that's Craig Needles where the anger came in, where it was like, this is apparently not a joke to this guy.

He's talking about Greenland.

He's talking about Canada, as if they are just things that can be annexed.

for starters, my bachelor party is in Niagara Falls.

See?

I mean, I've been to too many, man.

I don't need any more of that.

I mean, the guys, my wedding, I think we were up, like, 6 or 7 grand playing blackjack that weekend, so that worked out okay.

yeah, it it got people really ticked off, really annoyed.

Here's how you know, Canadians are upset.

Annoyed.

There's a lot of people who are angry at Wayne Gretzky, which I didn't even think was possible to happen.

And it's like I didn't even know that was on the table.

Yeah, but there was a lot of anger towards Wayne Gretzky because he won't stand up and say, hey, yeah, my my guy Donald here, he has a really bad 51st date idea that should never happen.

And that's how, you know, people are really upset and people are really annoyed is, oh, we're willing to be pissed off at Wayne Gretzky of all people over this.

So yeah, it is it has got some people upset.

There are people in this country, a lot of them in the border crossing numbers are back this up that have canceled vacations, United States that have changed plans of going to the United States because they're so mad.

They feel so betrayed by what's gone on here.

It's a situation where, hey, we're supposed to be close friends, we're supposed to be allies, we're supposed to be partners.

And instead it's you talking about annexing us in the United States, talking about subsidies.

But the reality is that's a trade deficit.

It's not a subsidy.

And the president either doesn't care to know the difference or is pretending to not know the difference.

And there's a lot of people who are just really angry about that.

And you can see it anywhere you go in Kent.

So, Earl, just briefly, you're a dual citizen when, when did it become something that if it made you angry, how long did it take for you to actually start taking it seriously when he started talking about 51st?

well.

Well, first of all, I was annoyed with Wayne Gretzky when he endorsed Stephen Harper.

So just Earl wants to claim a longer, long time.

that's fair, that's fair.

But.

But most Canadians were okay.

Yeah.

I mean, I think.

No, no, he was not an object of.

No, no, no, no, he was not central.

I think another thing is maybe an unrealized thought or sense among Canadians is like, okay, Trump keeps saying these things.

We know he just says stuff, right?

but he keeps saying we don't need anything from them.

You know, we don't need their oil.

We don't need the gas, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Well, then why are we buying it, right?

I mean, oil imports.

Clearly he's wrong about Fluor.

He's wrong.

He's posturing.

He's posturing.

Absolutely.

But if you don't need anything from Canada, why do you want it to be a 51st state?

Wouldn't it be a basket case if that were true?

So I think a lot of people realize that subconsciously, without being able to put it into words.

Well, maybe Bill in Rochester wants to weigh in on the idea of dairy products.

Hey, Bill, go ahead.

thanks, guys.

Yeah, I, I've heard that, American dairy products have pretty aggressive tariffs in Canada.

I want to read was that, there's some not as threshold above which, Canada slapped a tariff on north of 150% and American dairy products and, then also just American, you know, American provides some defense, I guess, where Canada as well.

So I was wondering if you guys have any comments on that or if you just reject that out of hand that that the tariffs are fair, that are in place, from Canada's perspective.

Thanks.

Yeah I know, I mean let's we talked tariffs in detail.

Bill.

a couple times now in the last couple of months on this program, dairy tariffs are one of the really sort of sensitive points that this administration has.

And many people on our side of the border have they.

My understanding on the dairy tariffs is they set in once a level of purchase reaches a certain point.

And we haven't made well, we haven't reached that point yet, but it's something like a 150 or 290% tariff.

I mean, it's a big tariff.

And Trump views that as you know, anathema to a working relationship.

And I wonder, I mean, Craig, are people talking about dairy tariffs.

How do you see that.

You know, they're talking they're talking about them a little bit.

And what we're hearing about the dairy tariffs is the why management in Canada.

And this is getting into a whole big kettle of fish.

But supply management in Canada on this side of the border is actually something that's seen as negative.

And there are quotas at certain farmers are allowed to produce and milk winds up getting wasted.

It's it's a messy political issue, especially because the farmers that it impacts are the ones mostly in Ontario and in Quebec.

So it turns into a very regional situation where politicians are afraid to touch supply management.

It's a third rail thing, basically the PPC, the far right party in this country, they're the only ones willing to even discuss what the supply management is, a good thing or a bad thing.

They think it's a bad thing.

I actually think there's something to that.

However, what I point out to people who are talking about the dairy tariff situation Canada is us.

MCA addresses this.

It's set those tariffs, it's set the limits where those tariffs begin.

And I can't help but notice who the president was when Usmca was negotiated.

So Donald Trump doesn't like that there is dairy tariffs.

Fair enough.

But you had a chance to negotiate that with Usmca and you clearly let it go then.

2018 or something like that.

Greg.

Yeah, it was 2018.

So it's something that could have been handled and wasn't.

And I get where Americans come from when they say, hey, we don't necessarily love supply management.

Your stuff goes over the border.

ours doesn't do the same.

Fair point.

Reasonable.

And I think that people should be open to a conversation there.

But, Trump saying, oh, yeah, there's an automatic tariff on every drop of dairy that comes over the border.

That's also not true.

And if Trump has an issue with the dairy tariffs, he should talk to the guy that negotiated Usmca, which I was told at the time was the greatest trade deal that ever happened.

So, like Gillian writes the program lamenting the state of the relationship between the United States and Canada.

And she notes that, as we reported on news this morning, the Rochester City School Board has canceled its annual field trip to Canada.

They say it's too risky this year.

Algonquin Provincial Park, beautiful place.

regularly scheduled international trip is not going to happen this year.

And, so, yeah, I mean, I think going both ways, you may see, that kind of tightening of travel.

And that's too bad.

That is too bad.

I want to listen to some of that.

I want to listen to some of what Mark Carney said on election night.

So, the the prime minister of Canada, in this clip is he's going to talk about Trump, but he begins talking in a way that, at least to my ears, was designed to say, not all international leadership has to sound like the American leader.

I am going to begin with the value of humility.

And by admitting that I have much to be humble about.

That's true over my long, that it's not an applause line.

It's just a statement of fact over my long career, I have made many mistakes, and I will make more, but I commit to admitting them openly, to correcting them quickly and always learning from them.

You know, humility underscores the importance of governing as a team in cabinet and in caucus and working constructively with all parties across Parliament of working in partnership with the provinces and the territories and with indigenous peoples.

And at this time, it underscores the value of bringing together labor, business, civil society to advance the nation building investments.

We need to transform our economy.

Humility is also about recognizing that one of the responsibilities of government is to prepare for the worst, not hope for the best.

As I've been warning for months, America wants our land, our resources, our water, our country has never.

But these are not.

These are not idle threats.

President Trump is trying to break us so that America can own us.

That will never that will never, ever happen.

but we.

As Mark Carney on election night to Earle when he talks about humility there.

What's what stands out to you as a dual citizen?

Well, I think that the humility that he's talking about, is not being weak.

It's being cognizant of what may be your own, lack of resources or experience.

And I think that's one thing that.

Right, I don't think correctly, but that Justin Trudeau became someone who people thought, well, maybe he's all about himself, you know, and the way he worked with cabinet, etc..

So, the other thing is it's a contrast to the US.

We're number one in the world.

We have the good stuff.

You guys don't don't you want to be us?

Right.

that whole Europe thing, you know, they're terrible.

We're the greatest.

Everything we do is the great, right?

Right.

You know, and I was watching one of those sort of fluffy international, real estate shows the other day, and there were there was a couple from Nashville who were moving to Paris.

the woman had a really good job there.

So they were looking for an apartment in Paris, and in one scene, they're in one of the markets that, you know, that that happened every day in Paris.

And they looked at the produce and the volume of it and the quality and everything, and how friendly everybody was.

And the real estate agent who was American said, you know, people come here thinking the Americans come here thinking, we have everything, you have nothing.

And then they find out it's the reverse.

Like the Europeans have quality.

Are they all as rich as Americans?

No.

The quality of life is different.

Right.

So Canada is sort of in the middle, like, you know, we have a hectic pace.

we have, transportation issues, housing issues, that are different from, from Europe.

So I think the humility is basically saying we're not the only people in the world.

We need to get along with people.

We need to be part of an international community.

Exactly.

Yeah.

So now I want Craig to respond to some of what people have said.

So we're gonna listen to Pierre Poilievre, the conservative leader, who again, if you're just joining us and you're not a Canadian political junkie, three months ago, he was going to be the next prime.

I mean, for the last year, he was going to be the next prime minister of Canada.

Conservatives in Canada were on the rise.

Justin Trudeau was very unpopular.

He was going to leave office eventually, and this was going to be a shooting.

And then it all changed.

And we have not only is not the new prime minister, he loses his seat in Parliament to Bruce Van Joy.

So let's listen to some of what Pierre Poilievre said on election night.

We know that change is needed, but change is hard to come by.

It takes time.

It takes work.

And that's why we have to learn the lessons of tonight so that we can have an even better result the next time the Canadians decide the future for the country.

Canadians Canadians have opted for a razor thin minority government, a virtual tie in the vote count.

So I would like to congratulate Prime Minister Carney on leading this minority government.

No, no, there.

We will have plenty of opportunity to to debate and disagree.

But tonight we come together as Canadians.

We will do our job.

Yes, we will do our job to hold the government to account.

But first.

We congratulate people from all political backgrounds on participating in the democratic process.

And as I said, while we will do our constitutional duty of holding government to account and proposing better alternatives, we will always put Canada first as we stare down tariffs and other irresponsible threats from President Trump.

Conservatives will work with the Prime Minister and all parties with the common goal of defending Canada's interests and getting a new trade deal that puts these tariffs behind us while protecting our sovereignty.

And the Canadian people.

Let's pair probably have on election night now, first of all, and that is a pretty classy set of statements.

There.

And certainly in contrast to what we are used to in recent elections, didn't challenge the legitimacy of the voting, had to accept losing, had to accept losing a seat in Parliament.

Did so with grace.

Congratulated the winner, said that you hold them to account, but you root for them and you work together.

I thought there was a lot of class there.

Now he also says he wants to continue to lead the conservatives.

He's 45 years old.

He spent his life in politics, essentially in Canada, preparing for this moment.

Craig Needles, what's the future for Pierre Poilievre and Canadian politics?

You know, I had a conservative MP on my podcast yesterday or a conservative MP elect, I should say, and I asked him the very same question.

I said, you know, listen, Paul, you lost a seat in Carleton.

Does that mean that his time as conservative leader is limited hearing?

And Andrew Layton's response was, no way.

I think that he had a very good election overall, the seat issue is a problem, but that something that could hypothetically be remedied.

There's a few ways and we can get into that if you'd like, but he is of the belief that Pierre Poilievre will and should continue to lead the Conservative Party of Canada going forward.

And, I think that that's the way it's going to turn out.

My thought on election night was, oh, man, this guy's cooked.

You can't not have a seat in Parliament and and be the leader of the opposition, but that, that is not going to be the case going forward.

I think that he is probably going to find a way to hold on here, but he better win the next election.

Well, I'll say, because if he doesn't win that one, he's going to be in, he's going to be in a bad way.

do we need an explainer, Evan, on the the way that the Canadian parliament works?

And how about if you don't like your 30 to 45 seconds, go for it.

Sure can.

Yeah.

imagine, in the United States, if the House of Representatives got to decide who the president was, that's basically how Parliament works.

And everyone in the House gets to vote.

Hey, here's who I think should be the president of the United States.

And whoever is essentially House speaker.

They actually get the role of president.

And that's basically what goes on with our parliament.

Here is the candidates go out and say, all right, if you vote for me, the Liberal candidate, I think Mark Carney should be prime minister.

You go for me, the conservative candidate.

I think Pierre Poilievre should be prime minister.

And they decide when they get to parliament based on who has the most seats there.

That's the easiest way to explain it.

But Polyakov, all the sudden he doesn't have a seat in parliament, despite having one for 20 years going into this because he lost in a pretty significant upset.

So now the question is can somebody resign by election comes in.

How does Pierre Poilievre get himself into Parliament before this term really expires, which could take as long as four years?

And now I want to listen to some of what President Trump said.

Now, keeping in mind the idea that it has long been said about President Trump, that if you want him to do something, you want to be the last person to have spoken to him before he makes a decision.

And here he is after having spoken to Mark Carney after the election and preparing for a state visit.

Let's listen.

Are you interested in rebuilding relations with Canada and if so, how?

No.

Well, I think we can have a great relationship.

He called me up yesterday.

He said, let's make a deal.

You know, he said he was running for office.

They were both.

They both hated Trump.

And it was the one that hated Trump.

I think the least that one.

I actually think the conservative hated me much more than they and the so-called liberal.

He's pretty liberal guy.

But now I spoke to him yesterday.

He couldn't have been nicer and I congratulated him.

You know, it was a very mixed, signal because it's almost leaving, which makes it very complicated for the country.

It's pretty tight race, but he's a very nice gentleman, and we, he's going to come to the white House very shortly within the next week or less.

Interesting that Trump says it was really tight there.

It's going to make it hard to govern almost exactly the way the American election was tight.

And yet he's claiming a mandate.

an Earl, by the way, was you were shaking your head when you heard Trump say he thinks that people have hated Trump more than Mark during the election.

Well, in situations like this, I think you can just take whatever Trump says and believe the opposite because you know him.

He.

Pierre Poilievre he's not Trump.

Yes.

but he's he's not, he's not Trump's friend.

Right.

But a lot of the policies are the same.

He, he he campaigned on law and order.

Right.

I mean, the crime rate in Canada is very, very low compared to the US.

the the biggest issue that is in people's minds is shootings in Toronto, which where did all the guns come from?

Right.

and Poilievre was tight with the anti-vax and and and against Covid restrictions.

So you're not buying it from me?

Not this time.

No.

Okay.

And then let me close with this.

Gary sends this this note.

The BBC had an article titled Younger Voters in Canada flocked to the conservatives.

Voters under the age of 34 voted 44 to 31, or at least did so.

Said so in polling before the election, said they're going to vote conservative.

And here's what the BBC writes.

In Canada, there is now a generational divide with young voters who are concerned about housing Unaffordability crime and the cost of living coalescing around the conservatives.

It's a reversal from 2015, when youth voted in record numbers, helping sweep Carney's predecessor Justin Trudeau, to power.

But this election, baby boomers, those over the age of 60, were an essential component to the Liberal success.

Meanwhile, younger Canadians, particularly young men, rallied behind the conservatives end quote.

And so Gary emails to ask.

This seems to be contrary to the general feeling that the next generations are supposed to be more liberal.

Do economic issues trump cultural issues?

And did the left go too far on cultural issues in Canada, or a bit of both?

Craig Needles how do you see this one?

We got just over a minute left here.

it's a bit of both.

So the housing thing still wound up being the big deal for voters.

As you said, under the age of 35.

And the conservatives wound up having some success there because the liberals have dropped the ball on the housing issue since Trudeau took office in 2015.

There's no way around that.

And there's debates around what they could have done differently.

Were immigration rates too high, where their issues when it came to, how quickly you could build things.

That's more of a provincial problem and municipal problem.

But nonetheless, when the rent checks were due, people didn't really care whose fault it was.

They just knew that they were too expensive and they were having a hard time moving out of mom and dad's basement.

So that is definitely an issue to watch.

And that's part of, I think why the NDP collapsed a little bit is because they used to rely on some of those young voters who again, switched over to the conservatives.

So yeah, the Trump thing was a big deal, especially for voters sort of age 40 and over.

But the housing thing in the affordability thing definitely still very, very much on the radar.

And issue number one for a lot of voters, especially those under 40.

Yeah, I mean, if you're if you're under the age of 40 and you cannot afford to buy your own house and you've been working no matter what country you live in, you're going to be upset with the party in power, and you're going to look at absolutely what needs to change.

And that is a big problem here.

It's a big problem.

Canada I want to thank Craig Needles, who's a radio and podcast host in London, Ontario, for being so generous with your time.

Thank you Craig.

We'll do this every few years.

I love having you on the program.

Here we do.

I have a great time, Evan.

Thank you.

Go, Leafs right.

Go go go.

Leafs.

I'm sorry.

No.

Leafs.

Go, go!

You have to have this.

Thank you.

Thank you very exactly.

Earl Dunbar is a dual citizen of the United States and Canada.

He is a Go Leafs go guy.

He's a retired software and network engineer.

It's been lovely having you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

Glad to be here.

More connections coming up in just a moment.

Oh.

This program is a production of WXXI Public Radio.

The views expressed do not necessarily represent those of this station.

Its staff, management, or underwriters.

The broadcast is meant for the private use of our audience.

Any rebroadcast or use in another medium without expressed written consent of Z is strictly prohibited.

Connections with Evan Dawson is available as a podcast.

Just click on the connections link at WXXI news.

Org.