>>> IMAGE FUNDING FOR CHAT BOX WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY THE MEMBERS OF THE NEW JERSEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, MAKING PUBLIC SCHOOLS GREAT FOR EVERY CHILD.

NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS, AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY INSIDER NJ, A POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE NETWORK, DEDICATED TO NEW JERSEY POLITICAL NEWS.

INSIDER NJ IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION AND INSIGHT.

ONLINE AT INSIDER NJ.COM.

♪ >>> HELLO, EVERYBODY, WELCOME TO "CHAT BOX," I'M DAVID CRUZ.

WE BEGIN WITH THE MAN WHO WILL BE REMEMBERED BY MANY AS THE FACE OF THE GLOBAL PANDEMIC FIGHT IN AMERICA.

HE WAS BOTH A VOICE OF REASON AND COMFORT, AND A LIGHTNING ROD FOR CRITICS AND CONSPIRACY THEORYISTS TO THIS DAY.

HE'S LEAVING HIS JOB AS DIRECTOR OF THE NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES, AND AS CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER TO THE PRESIDENT.

IT'S A PLEASURE TO WELCOME TO "CHAT BOX" DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DOC, GOOD TO MEET YOU, WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU, GOOD TO BE WITH YOU.

>> HERE WE ARE ALMOST THREE YEARS REMOVED FROM THE FIRST COVID CASES IN AMERICA.

IT'S REALLY IN THE REARVIEW MIRROR FOR A LOT OF US.

YOU HEARD THE PRESIDENT LAST WEEK SAY COVID IS OVER.

WHAT DO YOU THINK WHEN YOU HEAR THAT?

>> WELL, I THINK THERE COULD BE SOME MISUNDERSTANDING ABOUT THAT BECAUSE WHAT THE PRESIDENT WAS REFERRING TO WAS THE FACT THAT IF YOU GO BACK SEVERAL MONTHS TO ON THIS PART OF A YEAR WHEN WE WERE HAVING 800 TO 900,000 CASES A DAY AND 3 TO 4,000 DEATHS PER DAY.

THAT WAS THE -- STAGE OF THE PANDEMIC.

NOW WE ARE MUCH BETTER OFF WHERE WE HAVE 3 TO 400 DEATHS PER DAY AND FAR, FAR FEWER INFECTIONS.

HOWEVER, AND IT'S AN IMPORTANT HOWEVER, DAVID, THAT DOES NOT MEAN IN THE STRICT SENSE OF THE WORD THAT THIS PANDEMIC IS COMPLETELY OVER, AND IT'S GONE, AND WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT.

WE STILL ARE IN A SITUATION WHERE I'M NOT COMFORTABLE AT ALL WITH ACCEPTING 400, 300 DEATHS PER DAY AS BEING NORMAL TO ACCEPT.

WE'VE GOT TO DO MUCH, MUCH BETTER THAN THAT.

AND THERE'S ALSO THE LOOMING THREAT, WHICH WE'VE EXPERIENCED MULTIPLE TIMES OVER THE LAST 2 1/2 YEARS, THE THREAT OF THE EMERGENCE OF YET AGAIN ANOTHER VARIANT THAT COULD ELUDE THE PROTECTION THAT'S BEEN BUILT UP FROM VACCINES AS WELL AS FROM PRIOR INFECTION.

SO ALTHOUGH WE'RE IN A MUCH, MUCH BETTER PLACE THAN WE WERE A YEAR AGO, WHICH IS WHAT THE POINT THAT THE PRESIDENT WAS MAKING, WE STILL HAVE A GREAT CHALLENGE IN FRONT OF US.

WE'VE GOT TO DO MUCH, MUCH BETTER THAN WE'RE DOING NOW.

WE'VE GOT TO GET MANY MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED.

AND NOW THAT WE HAVE A BIVALENT UPDATED VACCINE THAT MATCHES TO THE CIRCULATING STRAIN, WE'VE GOT TO GET A LOT MORE PEOPLE TO GET THAT UPDATED VACCINE.

I GOT MINE YESTERDAY IN NEW YORK, AND I HOPE THAT LITERALLY HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, NOT ONLY IN THIS COUNTRY, BUT THROUGHOUT THE WORLD, GET THAT UPDATED VACCINE.

>> DOES THAT KIND OF NUANCED MESSAGING FROM THE PRESIDENT HURT EFFORTS TO AS YOU SAY GET MORE PEOPLE BOOSTED AND MORE PEOPLE VACCINATED?

>> WELL, I THINK IN SOME RESPECTS PEOPLE MAY GET THE WRONG IMPRESSION OF THAT.

AND THAT'S THE REASON WHY WE'RE OUT HERE AND MY CONVERSATION WITH YOU AND OTHERS, DAVID, CLARIFYING THAT.

THAT WE CAN'T JUST LET OUR GUARD DOWN.

AND THE PRESIDENT, IN FAIRNESS TO HIM, HE DID SAY THAT.

HE SAID WE HAVE CHALLENGES AHEAD, AND WE CAN'T LET OUR GUARD DOWN.

AND THAT'S EXACTLY THE POINT.

>> YOU MENTIONED THE VIRUS AROUND THE WORLD.

WHAT IS THE STATUS OF THE VIRUS INTERNATIONALLY?

>> WELL, B.A.5 IS STILL A DOMINANT VARIANT THAT'S STILL DOMINANT IN THIS COUNTRY.

WHAT WE'RE SEEING IS THE INKLINGS OF THE APPEARANCE OF OTHER SUBLINEAGE VARIANTS OF THE SOME KRON.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE BF 7, THE BA 4.6 AND OTHERS THAT HAVE MULTIPLE DIFFERENT NUMBERS ASSOCIATED WITH THEM.

BUT THEY ARE VARIANTS THAT WE HOPE DON'T ELUDE BETTER THE PROTECTION THAT ONE GETS FROM VACCINES AND FROM PRIOR INFECTION.

>> YOU MENTIONED SEVEN PRESIDENTS THAT YOU'VE ADVISED GOING BACK TO REAGAN.

BUT ONLY TWO IN THIS GLOBAL PANDEMIC.

WHAT WAS THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ADVISING PRESIDENT TRUMP, AND ADVISING PRESIDENT BIDEN?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO GET INTO THE DETAILS OF THAT.

IT WAS A VERY DIFFICULT TIME.

IN THAT OFTEN THE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE AND DATA TOOK SECOND PLACE TO ANECDOTAL DISCUSSIONS ABOUT THINGS.

AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I HAD TO DO SOMETHING THAT WAS VERY UNCOMFORTABLE FOR ME.

I DIDN'T RELISH DOING THAT.

I HAD TO PUBLICLY DISAGREE WITH SOME OF THE STATEMENTS OF THE PRESIDENT, AND OTHERS IN THE ADMINISTRATION.

SUCH AS THE EFFICACY OR NOT OF INTERVENTIONS LIKE HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE, AND OTHERS.

THE IDEA THAT THE VIRUS IS GOING TO DISAPPEAR AND BE GONE, JUST LIKE MAGIC.

I MEAN, I HAD TO PUSH BACK ON THAT.

WHEREAS, NOW WE REALLY TRY TO STAY AS MUCH AS WE CAN STRICTLY BASED ON THE EVIDENCE AND THE DATA AND THE SCIENCE.

>> AS WE SAID IT'S BEEN THREE YEARS REMOVED FROM OUR FIRST CASES IN NEW JERSEY.

CAN YOU LOOK BACK YET AND SAY I CAN'T BELIEVE WE WERE DOING THIS BACK IN 2020, SOMETHING THAT SEEMS SO COUNTER TO WHAT WE KNOW NOW?

>> WELL, THE ANSWER IS ALWAYS YES, DAVID, BECAUSE WE WERE DEALING WITH A MOVING TARGET.

WHAT WE KNEW IN JANUARY AND FEBRUARY WAS NOT WHAT WE ABSOLUTELY KNOW NOW.

A LOT ABOUT THE VIRUS THAT WE DIDN'T FULLY APPRECIATE, LIKE HOW EASY IT IS TO SPREAD FROM PERSON TO PERSON.

THAT IS SPREAD BY AEROSOL.

THAT 50 TO 60% OF THE TRANSMISSIONS OCCUR FROM SOMEONE WITHOUT ANY SYMPTOMS.

WE DID NOT KNOW THAT IN JANUARY.

IT WAS ONLY AS WE GOT INTO FEBRUARY AND MARTHA WE FULLY APPRECIATE THAT, WHICH THAT INFLUENCED GREATLY RECOMMENDATIONS AND GUIDELINES.

>> CAN WE SAY THAT WE'VE LEARNED A BIG LESSON YET, OR ARE WE STILL KIND OF GOING THROUGH THE PROCESS?

>> WELL, WE'VE LEARNED A LOT OF LESSONS, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I EMPHASIZE.

I HOPE THAT WHEN THIS IS BEHIND US FOR THE MOST PART, WE DON'T PUT IT ASIDE, AND FORGET THE LESSONS LEARNED.

AND OUR CORPORATE MEMORY WANES OVER TIME.

WE'VE GOT TO BE PREPARED FOR THE INEVITABILITY OF ANOTHER PANDEMIC THAT COULD POSSIBLY EVEN BE WORSE THAN THIS.

THOUGH IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE THAT.

IT IS POSSIBLE.

WE DON'T KNOW WHEN THAT WOULD OCCUR.

BUT WE'VE GOT TO BE PREPARED FOR IT.

SO HOPEFULLY THIS IS REALLY A VERY IMPORTANT WAKEUP CALL FOR US.

>> RIGHT NOW WHAT DO WE HAVE TO WATCH OUT FOR AS THEY SAY WINTER IS COMING.

WHAT PRECAUTIONS DO WE HAVE TO TAKE?

AND IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IT'S FOREVER PRECAUTIONS?

>> WELL, IN SOME RESPECTS IT'S FOREVER, BUT CERTAINLY WHEN WE'RE IN THE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF A CHALLENGE NOW, AS YOU GET INTO THE WINTER MONTHS, ANY RESPIRATORY DISEASE, BE IT COVID, OR OTHER OF OUR RESPIRATORY VIRUSES, INCLUDING INFLUENZA, AND PARA FLU, AND RESPIRATORY VIRUS, YOU HAVE A GREATER CHALLENGE AS YOU GET INTO THE WINTER MONTHS BECAUSE PEOPLE TEND TO CONREGAIT INDOORS, USUALLY WITH LESS THAN OPTIMAL VENTILATION AND THAT'S THE PERFECT SETUP FOR THE SPREAD OF A RESPIRATORY DISEASE.

THE WAY YOU COUNTER THAT, IS THAT YOU MAKE USE OF THE COUNTER MEASURES THAT WE HAVE AVAILABLE TO US, AND THAT'S WHAT WE JUST MENTIONED A MOMENT AGO, DAVID, IF YOU'RE NOT VACCINATED, GET VACCINATED.

IF YOU HAVEN'T BEEN BOOSTED, GET YOUR BOOST.

IN THIS COUNTRY WE ONLY HAVE 68% OF THE POPULATION VACCINATED, AND ONLY ONE-HALF OF THOSE HAVE RECEIVED A SINGLE BOOST.

THAT IS FAR, FAR LOWER THAN MANY COUNTRIES, INCLUDING LOW AND MIDDLE INCOME COUNTRIES.

SO IF YOU RANK US, ABOUT HOW WELL WE'RE DOING WITH VACCINES, WE'RE NOT DOING AS WELL AS WE SHOULD BE DOING.

>> ARE WE BECOMING AN IMMUNIZATION AVERSE SOCIETY?

>> I HOPE NOT, DAVID.

BECAUSE VACCINATIONS ARE ONE OF THE TOOLS HISTORICALLY THAT HAVE SAVED THROUGHOUT THE WORLD HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF LIVES THROUGHOUT THE YEARS, LITERALLY HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF LIVES.

AND WE REALLY CANNOT FALL INTO A SITUATION WHERE WE DON'T FULLY APPRECIATE THE ADVANTAGES OF VACCINES, BE IT A VACCINE AGAINST COVID, OR A VACCINE AGAINST MEASLES, OR POLIO, OR WHAT HAVE YOU.

THEY ARE TRULY LIFE SAVING.

>> AS YOU SAID WE WENT 100 YEARS BETWEEN THAT -- THE INFLUENZA PANDEMIC, OF EARLY 1900s, AND COVID.

ARE WE LIKELY TO SEE THE TIMES SHRINK BETWEEN GLOBAL PANDEMICS?

>> IT'S UNPREDICTABLE, DAVID, WE DON'T KNOW.

REALLY, QUITE FRANKLY.

WE HAD A PANDEMIC FLU.

THAT WAS HISTORIC IN ITS DESTRUCTION IN 1918.

AND THEN IT WASN'T UNTIL 1957 THAT WE HAD THE NEXT PANDEMIC.

AND THEN 1968 WAS ANOTHER ONE.

AND THEN YOU HAD THE 2009 PANDEMIC, WHICH WAS A LOT OF CASES, BUT A VERY MILD DISEASE.

AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU GET A PANDEMIC OF SOMETHING THAT ISN'T INFLUENZA.

IT'S A CORONAVIRUS.

IT'S ENTIRELY UNPREDICTABLE.

>> IS IT ACCURATE TO KIND OF FEEL THAT HUMANS ARE IN A BIOLOGICAL WAR THAT WE'RE LOSING?

>> WELL, I THINK IF WE DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THE IMPORTANCE OF EXAMINING, AND BEING CAREFUL ABOUT THE ANIMAL/HUMAN INTERFACE, THAT WE WILL CONTINUALLY PUT OURSELVES IN DANGER.

IF YOU LOOK AT THE OUTBREAKS OF RELEVANCE, HISTORICALLY IN OUR OWN LIFETIMES, AND BEFORE, 75% OR MORE OF THE NEW INFECTIONS THAT CHALLENGE US ARE ZOONIC, IT COMES FROM AN ANIMAL THAT JUMPS SPECIES TO A HUMAN.

THE PANDEMIC FLU OF 1918, HIV, EBOLA.

SARS CO VEE 1, SARS-CoV-2.

IT REALLY IS IMPORTANT.

THE BIRD FLUS THAT THREATEN US ARE ALL VIRUSES THAT JUMP SPECIES WHEN YOU HAVE AN ENCROACHMENT INAPPROPRIATELY OF THE ANIMAL/HUMAN INTERFACE.

>> ARE WE PAYING ENOUGH ATTENTION NOW TO UPOMONKEYPOX, EVEN POLIO WE'VE SEEN OUTBREAKS.

>> WE'VE BEEN CHALLENGED WITH AN OUTBREAK OF MONKEYPOX, THANK GOODNESS IT'S COMING DOWN NOW IN THE NUMBER OF CASES.

FORTUNATELY FOR US BECAUSE OF PREPARATION, AGAINST A SMALLPOX BIO TERROR ATTACK WE ALREADY HAD IN PLACE VACCINES THAT WERE DEVELOPED, AND ANTI VIRALS THAT WERE DEVELOPED.

THE SITUATION WITH POLIO IS DIFFERENT.

WE CAN COMPLETELY STOP ANY ISSUE WITH POLIO BY JUST MAKING SURE THAT OUR CHILDREN ARE VACCINATED, AND THEY SHOULD BE VACCINATED.

THE POLIO CASE IN NEW YORK WAS IN A COUNTY THAT HAS A VERY LOW LEVEL OF VACCINATION FOR POLIO.

SO THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN PREDICTABLE.

THAT SOONER OR LATER YOU'RE GOING TO GET A POLIO CASE WHEN YOU UNDERVACCINATE YOUR POPULATION.

>> YOU HAVE SEEN THE WORST OF, AND THE BEST OF WHAT HUMAN KIND CAN DO.

ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC THAT WE CAN AVOID JUST DESTROYING OURSELVES?

>> WELL, YEAH, I HOPE SO, DAVID.

THAT WOULD BE A TERRIBLE OUTCOME.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S BEEN SO DISTURBING, AT LEAST OVER THE LAST 2 1/2 YEARS WITH THIS PANDEMIC THAT WE ARE EXPERIENCING NOW HAS BEEN THE DISTORTION AND THE DISINFORMATION, AND MISINFORMATION THAT HAS GONE AROUND, THAT HAS CREATED A REALLY CHALLENGE FOR THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD.

BECAUSE PARTICULARLY WITH SOCIAL MEDIA, THINGS THAT MAKE NO SENSE AT ALL, THAT RANGE FROM PURE CONSPIRATORIAL THEORIES TO OUT AND OUT MISINFORMATION HAS MADE IT VERY DIFFICULT TO MOUNT A VERY GOOD RESPONSE AGAINST A PANDEMIC THAT'S CHALLENGING ALL OF US.

>> THAT'S WHY I ASKED THAT, BECAUSE THERE IS SO MUCH DIS, AND MISINFORMATION OUT THERE, AND SOCIAL MEDIA IS NOT GOING AWAY.

IT SEEMS LIKE WE'RE IN THIS PERPETUAL ECHO CHAMBER.

AND PEOPLE ONLY LISTEN TO WHAT THEY WANT TO LISTEN TO.

AND THERE'S A REAL DANGER IN THAT WHEN IT COMES TO SCIENCE, AND MEDICINE, AND PANDEMICS.

NO?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

THAT'S THE BIG DANGER.

BIG ENEMY OF PUBLIC HEALTH IS MISINFORMATION, AND DISINFORMATION, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU HAVE THE MACHINERY OF SOCIAL MEDIA, WHICH DOES NOTHING BUT AMPLIFY THAT.

>> YOU TALK ABOUT SERVING SEVEN PRESIDENTS, BEING 54 YEARS, READY TO RETIRE NOW.

WHAT DOES RETIREMENT LOOK LIKE FOR A GUY LIKE YOU?

I ASSUME YOU'RE RETIRING.

>> DAVID, I'M STEPPING DOWN FROM GOVERNMENT SERVICE.

BUT I'M NOT, QUOTE, RETIRING.

I HAVE A NUMBER OF THINGS THAT I WOULD LIKE TO DO.

I HAVEN'T MADE ANY DEFINITIVE PLANS BECAUSE I WANT TO MAKE SURE I STAY WITHIN THE GUIDELINES OF ETHICS, WHICH MEANS YOU DON'T WANT TO BE NEGOTIATING ANY JOB OUTSIDE UNTIL ACTUALLY YOU STEP DOWN BECAUSE YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE CONFLICTS OF INTEREST.

BUT I WANT TO SPEND TIME TEACHING AND WRITING AND TRAVELING AND TRYING TO DO SOME OF THE THINGS IN A DIFFERENT VENUE THAT I'VE BEEN DOING NOW ALL OF THESE YEARS, TO TRY AND HOPEFULLY BE AN INSPIRATION TO YOUNGER GENERATION OF SCIENTISTS, AND WOULD BE SCIENTISTS, ABOUT WHY IT'S SO IMPORTANT, AND GRATIFYING, TO SEEK A CAREER IN PUBLIC HEALTH, AND IN PUBLIC SERVICE.

>> BECAUSE DESPITE ALL YOUR TREMENDOUS ACCOLADES, I MEAN, YOU FLEW IN UNDER THE RADAR IN THE BROADER CULTURAL SENSE, BUT THIS PANDEMIC HAS MADE YOU A HOUSE HOLD NAME, AND FACE.

CAN YOU EVER GO BACK TO JUST BEING A PRIVATE GUY?

>> I HOPE SO.

WE'LL SEE HOW THAT WORKS OUT, DAVID.

>> AND AM I TO UNDERSTAND YOU'RE A WASHINGTON NATIONALS FAN?

>> I AM.

I AM.

I KNOW, IT'S BEEN A BAD COUPLE YEARS.

>> YOU WERE BORN IN BROOKLYN, MAN.

>> I KNOW, BUT WHEN I WAS IN BROOKLYN, DAVID, I WAS A NEW YORK YANKEE FAN.

>> OH, WOW.

YOU KNOW, YOUR WIFE, I'M TOLD, IS ROYALTY IN ESSEX COUNTY HERE.

>> YES.

>> IN NEW JERSEY.

ANY POSSIBILITY THAT YOU'LL BE COMING TO JERSEY?

>> IT'S POSSIBLE.

YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE PLACE THAT MY WIFE'S BIRTH, AND WHERE HER FAMILY'S FROM.

SO IT'S ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY.

>> HOW DO YOU WANT PEOPLE TO REMEMBER YOU?

WHAT IT IS THAT YOU'VE DONE, THE PERSON THAT YOU'VE BEEN?

>> WELL, I WANT PEOPLE -- I WOULD LIKE PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, TO JUDGE ME FAIRLY, AND TO APPRECIATE THAT I DEVOTED MY ENTIRE PROFESSIONAL CAREER AS A SCIENTIST, AS A PHYSICIAN, AND AS A PUBLIC HEALTH PERSON, TO SAFEGUARD AND PROTECT THE HEALTH OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC.

AND THAT'S WHAT I HOPE I'M REMEMBERED BY.

>> ALL RIGHT, DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, A GREAT PLEASURE TO MEET YOU.

THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

GIVE US A QUICK WORLD SERIES PREDICTION, SINCE YOUR NATIONALS ARE NOWHERE NEAR IT.

>> I'M GOING TO STAY AWAY FROM THAT.

NO PREDICTION HERE, DAVID.

GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> ALL RIGHT, DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US, GOOD TO SEE YOU.

>> MY PLEASURE.

>> LET'S MAKE A PIVOT HERE.

ONE OF THE THINGS WE MISSED MOST DURING THE PANDEMIC WAS MUSIC.

LIVE MUSIC, SPECIFICALLY.

THANKFULLY, WE'RE REEMERGING FROM THAT DARK PLACE, AND NOT A MOMENT TOO SOON.

I HONESTLY DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO TELL YOU HOW MANY JAZZ GREATS OUR NEXT GUEST HAS ACCOMPANIED FROM BOUZA TO TITO, DIZZY, MONGO, MANY, MANY MORE.

HE'S A MASER DRUMMER, PERCUSSIONIST, BAND LEADER, COMPOSER AND HE HOSTED A LATIN CRUISE ON WBGO IN NEWARK, IT'S A PLEASURE TO WELCOME TO CHAT BOX BOBBY SANABRIA.

I HAVEN'T SEEN YOU IN A HUNDRED YEARS MAN.

>> YOU LOOK PRETTY GOOD FOR A HUNDRED YEARS.

SO DO I.

>> EXACTLY.

YOU SAID WHEN THEY FIRST APPROACHED YOU TO TAKE OVER THE LATIN JAZZ CRUISE ON WBGO AFTER THE GREAT WILDA RIVERA LEFT YOU SAID YOU COULD ONLY DO IT IF YOU COULD EDUCATE THE LISTENERS, RIGHT?

>> YES, YES.

AND AMY NOZ TO HER CREDIT, SAID THAT'S EXACTLY WHY I'VE ASKED YOU TO DO IT.

IT'S BEEN GREAT FOR THE LAST FOUR YEARS, EDUCATING THE PUBLIC ABOUT THIS GREAT AMERICAN ART FORM THAT WAS BORN HERE, ACTUALLY IN SPANISH HARLEM IN 1939 WITH THE MACHIDOAFRO CUBANS.

SINCE THEN IT'S EXPANDED TO ALL 22 COUNTRIES.

WE'RE IN AN EXCITING TIME PERIOD FOR JAZZ RIGHT NOW.

>> YOU AND I TALKED THE OTHER DAY FOR THE FIRST TIME IN, AS I SAID, MANY YEARS, AND WE TALKED FOR A HALF HOUR EASY ABOUT JUST ONE PIECE OF MUSIC, AND IT STARTED WITH MY QUESTION ABOUT THE SO CALLED SPANISH TINGE IN JAZZ.

TELL ME ABOUT SOUVENIR DE-PUERTO RICO.

>> THAT WAS WRITTEN BY A GREAT GENTLEMAN RECOGNIZED AS AMERICA'S FIRST GREAT COMPOSER AND PIANO -- PART FRENCH, PART GERMAN, AFRO HAITIAN.

HE WAS KNOWN AS A SUPER CREOLE, IF THERE EVER COULD BE SUCH A TERM, BY DR. ROBERT FER RIS THOMPSON, THE IMMINENT SCHOLAR -- COLLEGE, A ART HISTORIAN.

HE LIVED, GREW UP RIGHT OVER CONGO SQUARE IN NEW ORLEANS, AND HEARD DRUMMING, AND THAT WAS THE ONLY PLACE IN THE UNITED STATES WHERE RAND DRUMMING OF AFRICAN DESCENT WAS ALLOWED.

HE GREW UP THERE.

SUPREMELY INFLUENCED.

BECAME A WONDERKIN, STUDIED IN PARIS, UPON HIS RETURN HE STARTED TOURING ALL OVER LATIN AMERICA, PUERTO RICO, CUBA AND BRAZIL.

AND IN PUERTO RICO HE WAS TAKEN ABACK BY THE MUSIC OF THE COUNTRY SIDE BY THE FARMERS.

AND HE COMPOSED THIS PIECE.

CALLED MARCH OF THE HIBAROS, BASED ON AN OLD AGINALDO, A CHRISTMAS CAROL WE WOULD DO IN PUERTO RICO.

♪ IT'S AMAZING.

AND HE QUOTES THAT VERBATIM IN THE PIECE.

SO HE'S THE BEGINNING, IN MY OPINION, OF WHAT WE CALL LATIN JAZZ.

BECAUSE HE WAS THE FIRST TO USE AFRO CARIBBEAN, AFRO LATIN RHYTHMS IN A SENSE, IN AN AMERICANIZED WAY FROM HIS NEW ORLEANS BACKGROUND.

BUT NEW ORLEANS IS A CARIBBEAN CITY ANYWAY, THE NORTHERN MOST CARIBBEAN CITY IN MY OPINION.

>> YEAH.

>> SO IT'S IN KEEPING WITH THAT.

SO WE CAN TRACE THE MUSIC ALL THE WAY BACK TO HIM, AND THEN RAG TIME HAS ELEMENTS OF THE CUBAN HABANERA, AND PUERTO RICAN DANCE, ET CETERA, UP UNTIL WHAT WE DO TODAY WITH GREAT MUSIC THAT'S HAPPENING WITH PEOPLE LIKE SANTANA, VALDEZ, YOURS TRULY AND MANY, MANY OTHERS.

AND TITO RODRIGUEZ.

>> THESE ARE INFLUENCES THAT GO BACK TO THE 1840s, 1850s.

>> YES, INDEED, YES, INDEED.

LATIN JAZZ IS UNIQUELY AN AMERICAN ART FORM.

IT GOT CODIFIED IN 1939 WITH THE MACHID O AFRO CUBANS IN SPANISH HARLEM AT A SMALL JEWISH CATERING HALL CALLED THE PARK PALACE BALLROOM, ORIGINALLY CALLED THE GOLDEN CASINO BUT THEY REALLY CODIFIED EVERYTHING INTO ONE COHESIVE UNIT USING THE COMPLEX ARRANGING TECHNIQUES OF JAZZ HARMONY AND OF COURSE FEATURING JAZZ SOLOISTS AS IMPROVISERS AND THEY WERE THE FIRST BAND TO USE CONGAS, AND -- THAT'S A NEW YORK INNOVATION.

IMAGINE A SALSA BAND TODAY WITHOUT ANY OF THOSE INSTRUMENTS.

>> SO LATINOS ARE HOT NOWADAYS, IT COMES AND GOES IN CYCLES, I THINK, BUT SOMETHING THAT DRIVES ME CRAZY, AND I KNOW I'M GOING TO SOUND LIKE AN OLD MAN HERE, AND YOU'RE GOING TO SOUND LIKE AN OLD MAN TOO, BUT WHAT DRIVES ME CRAZY IS WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT LATIN MUSIC AS IF IT'S ONE THING.

I MEAN, IS THERE A MORE DIVERSE MUSIC, REALLY?

>> WELL, FORGET IT.

I MEAN, THE PROBLEM IS TODAY THAT PEOPLE LISTEN TO LATIN POP, WHICH IS BASICALLY POPULAR MUSIC DONE BY LATINO ARTISTS.

LATIN POP AND LATIN ROCK, YOU HAVE ROCK -- IT'S BASICALLY AN ARTIST DOING ROCK WITH SPANISH LYRICS, ET CETERA, LATIN POP AS WELL, WITH BALLADS, ET CETERA, AND THEN RAG TONE HAS THAT CONCERT, RHYTHM WHICH WE CALL IN PUERTO RICO -- AND THAT'S JUST ONE RHYTHM.

WE HAVE THOUSANDS OF RHYTHMS.

I MEAN, COLOMBIA ALONE HAS OVER 150 STYLES OF MUSIC, JUST TO NAME ONE PLACE.

SO YOU MULTIPLY THAT BY 22 COUNTRIES, YOU'VE GOT AN INCREDIBLE WEALTH OF RHYTHMIC KNOWLEDGE THAT WE INHERITED FROM AFRICA.

BECAUSE WE ARE CHILDREN OF AFRICA, RHYTHMICALLY.

THAT'S WHERE OUR RHYTHMS CAN BE DIRECTLY TRACED TO.

SO WHEN YOU'RE HEARING EVEN THAT SIMPLE REGATONE BEAT IT'S HARKENING BACK TO OUR TRUE MOTHER LAND, RHYTHMICALLY, AFRICA.

WITH MELODY AND INDIAN ASPECTS AS WELL.

YOU'VE GOT THE ULTIMATE FUSION MUSIC, WITH JAZZ, HARMONY AND ARRANGEMENT TECHNIQUE, AND ITALIAN AMERICAN BROTHERS AND SISTERS USED TO SAY IN SOUTH BRONX AND SOUTH BROOKLYN, FORGET ABOUT IT.

>> FORGET ABOUT IT.

YOU TALK ABOUT ALL THE INFLUENCES AND ALL THE RHYTHMS IN THIS MUSIC.

WE'RE NOT SHOWCASING THE BEST OF OUR MUSIC ON COMMERCIAL RADIO, ARE WE?

I MEAN, WHAT -- IS THE BIGGEST DIFFERENCE JUST MUSICIANSHIP?

INDIVIDUAL MUSICIANS PLAYING?

>> WELL, THE THING IS -- THERE'S TWO ASPECTS.

THERE'S THAT ASPECT, INDIVIDUALS, MUSICIANS PLAYING, POPULAR MUSIC IS DRIVEN BY VOCALS, BY SONG WRITING.

AND IT'S ALSO DRIVEN TODAY BY TECHNOLOGY.

YOU MIGHT BE HEARING SOMETHING THAT YOU LIKE AS FAR AS A POP PIECE, OR A REGATONE PIECE BUT MORE THAN LIKELY THERE'S NOT A REAL DRUMMER ON THERE, OR EVEN REAL PERCUSSION.

IT'S ALL COMPUTER BASED.

WHERE WHAT WE DO IN THE WORLD OF JAZZ AND LATIN JAZZ, WE TREASURE ONE THING, ESPECIALLY JAZZ PEOPLE, AUTHENTICITY, AND THAT'S TO US THAT HUMAN BEINGS ARE PLAYING THE INSTRUMENTS, THEY'RE IN THE MOMENT INSTANTANEOUSLY REACTING TO ONE ANOTHER WHETHER ON THE STAGE OR IN THE STUDIO.

THAT'S THE GREAT THING ABOUT MY PROGRAM THE LATIN JAZZ CRUISE I GET TO SHOWCASE THAT IN A MYRIAD NUMBER OF WAYS BECAUSE LATIN JAZZ ISN'T JUST AFRO CUBAN RHYTHMS AND AFRO BRAZILIAN RHYTHMS, WHICH ARE THE TWO MAIN DRIVING FORCES IN LATIN JAZZ.

BUT THERE ARE -- AS I SAID BEFORE, NUMEROUS, HUNDREDS, HUNDREDS OF RHYTHMS FROM ALL OF THE DIFFERENT COUNTRIES.

I TRY TO -- I SHOWCASE THAT EVERY WEEK AS MUCH AS I CAN, DIVERSITY IN THE MUSIC.

>> ALL RIGHT, SO MANY AVENUES TO TRAVEL.

BOBTY SINABRIA, GREAT TO SEE YOU, MAN, THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

>> THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY AND THE PRIVILEGE AND IT WAS AN HONOR.

>> THAT IS "CHAT BOX" FOR THIS WEEK, OUR THANKS ALSO TO DR. ANTHONY FAUCI.

FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER AT DAVID CRUZNJ, AND SUBSCRIBE TO THE YOUTUBE CHANNEL FOR ORIGINAL CONTENT EVERY DAY.

YOU CAN ALSO FIND US ON NJPBS.ORG.

I'M DAVID CRUZ.

FROM THE ENTIRE CREW OVER HERE, THANKS FOR WATCHING, WE'LL SEE YOU NEXT WEEK.

>>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR CHAT BOX WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY THE MEMBERS OF THE NEW JERSEY EDUCATION ASSOCIATION, MAKING PUBLIC SCHOOLS GREAT FOR EVERY CHILD.

NJM INSURANCE GROUP.

SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY INSIDER NJ, A POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE NETWORK DEDICATED TO NEW JERSEY POLITICAL NEWS.

INSIDER NJ IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION, AND INSIGHT.

ONLINE AT INSIDER NJ.COM.

♪