"Chat Box with David Cruz" is provided by the members of the New Jersey education Association, making public schools great for every child.

♪ David: Hi, everybody.

Welcome to "Chat Box."

I am David Cruz.

It is great to be back with you after a tumultuous summer.

With more drama expected as we head into the presidential election this fall.

Our guest today has been in and around it all year long.

It is a pleasure to welcome back Governor Phil Murphy.

How are you doing?

Gov.

Murphy: I am doing well.

Good to be back.

David: This year was a perfect example.

The senator and the gold bars, the Senate race, Biden, Harris.

What does it all mean?

Gov.

Murphy: First of all, I miss him so much.

A giant, a very good friend, tough as nails but fair.

The ultimate journalist.

Hats off to Michael and his family.

It has been a year.

Michael had it right.

It is hard to argue.

A lot of moving parts continuing.

Big elections not that long from now.

Without question, a year we will look back to and say, that was the year.

David: Is it a natural evolution of our political process in New Jersey?

Or are voters more assertive now in -- and being heard more?

Gov.

Murphy: I don't think you could say a conviction on corruption and official corruption is a natural evolution of anything.

Certainly nothing we should be proud of.

But I think we have opened up democracy wide in our seven years.

That is like pushing on a screen door because, to your very fair premise, voters have wanted that, and it is going in a direction that I think is the right direction and one we probably could have predicted.

David: Presidential election, just crazy changes there.

And rapid changes.

New Jersey is reliably blue, so we expect that the Democrat will win here.

So, does that get you to go jet around the country in swing states, Pennsylvania, Arizona, etc.?

Gov.

Murphy: You never take anything for granted, but I would be stunned if Kamala Harris and Tim Walz don't win New Jersey.

I think overall, it is theirs to lose.

They could, it is a very tight race.

But currently, I would rather be playing their hand nationally.

But that makes New Jersey, assuming I am right and with the caveat you never take anything for granted, that means we are exporting -- I will look at what is happening in Montclair.

They are sending buses every weekend.

That pace will pick up.

That is one example of many.

We are a big export state in terms of finances.

Tammy and I hosted the last fundraiser for President Biden.

We will undoubtedly be hosting a fundraiser for the Harris-Walls ticket.

Exporting boots on the ground, extorting money, and exporting yours truly.

We are in talks to go to New Hampshire.

We do a lot of zooms.

We want to do whatever the team needs.

David: I don't want to push you out the door too quickly, but would you take a job with the Harris administration?

CIA?

Gov.

Murphy: No.

[laughter] I've got the job of my lifetime.

We have an enormous amount we still want to do in the next 16 months.

I am expecting to sprint through the tape of January 2026.

David: Let me ask you your favorite political question.

It concerns the Senate race in New Jersey.

Let me ask it this way.

If Andy Kim asks for your endorsement, would you give it?

Gov.

Murphy: I don't see why I wouldn't.

There is no secret he was not my first choice.

Having said that, this is so important to get the right person in there voting for the Senate Majority Leader.

There is no question where I would vote.

He is saying he is not seeking endorsements from political leaders, including us.

Completely his prerogative.

I completely accept it.

But the fact of the matter is, this is an incredibly important election and it matters who you vote for.

David: He is the better candidate in your mind?

Gov.

Murphy: He is, but I know both guys as individuals.

They are both really good guys.

But I am a Democrat through and through.

David: Democrats hate to hear your standardbearer say the other guy is a good guy.

Gov.

Murphy: He is a good guy.

I don't know what else to say.

When I heard he was running for the Senate, I said to my guys, this was back when Curtis announced, I thought he was a Democrat all these years.

But listen, there is no question where I am going to vote and there is too much at stake to make sure we get the majority leader in the Senate, particularly in a year where the Senate is in the balance here.

We talk about the White House allots.

We don't talk as much about the Senate as we should.

It is a tough map for Democrats.

David: I am expecting to see that in a political ad somewhere.

Governor Murphy said I thought he was a Democrat.

Gov.

Murphy: Poor Curtis's campaign.

There is no question where I am voting.

David: Another favorite topic of yours, you are still alive so I think you know where I'm going with this.

It has been another Hellish summer.

Just reading this week, The Monitor talks about 820 cancellations between June 1 and August 31 of this year, which is more in the same three month period than any year on your watch, except 2020.

I know you are a big cheerleader for the agency, but how does that represent progress?

Gov.

Murphy: I thought Nikita's piece was really well done.

That might not be something folks would expect given how critical it was.

It called balls and strikes.

Give me a minute on this one, David.

There is a big difference between the first two or three years, including 2020, 2018 and 2019 would be on that list, and 2024.

It was a miserable summer if you are a commuter.

There's no two ways about it.

But when you look at the cause of the breakdowns, dramatically different.

Early on when we got here, it was self-inflicted.

The prior administration had defunded NJ Transit.

There were not enough engineers, the equipment was old.

It was overwhelmingly on NJ Transit.

As the article pointed out, quite rightfully, we have a good relationship with Amtrak, but this is forced -- first and foremost on them.

We leased space from them.

We are doing a lot with them to get out ahead.

Joint inspections would be one area.

They need funding from the Feds.

The infrastructure is very old that we lease and run our trains on.

NJ Transit is not blameless, but we need the other folks to punch out there -- to punch at their weight.

David: How do you get Amtrak on the same page?

Gov.

Murphy: I got them in the same room together in June.

We came up with a plan that was one both sides agreed to and have been pursuing.

The end of the summer was not great by any means, but June was the worst part of the summer by far.

They need funding.

They need at least $300 million to fund new wires, which are above that tend to fail in extreme heat, which is part of the reason these bad months happened during the summer.

We are getting the gateway tunnels built after my predecessor had canceled them.

Two new tunnels.

You will get one seat rides to new communities when that is done.

The trajectory is right.

We are going in the right direction.

It ain't going to be overnight.

David: You are familiar with the song "Cuando, Cuando, Cuando?"

Gov.

Murphy: I am.

There are 175 new double-decker's on order.

Good things are happening.

The let me say unequivocally, the summer sucked and I am not happy about it either.

David: You apologized by offering this fair holiday, for which you got criticized anyway because the whole point is the agency is tough to fund, and now you're giving money back.

Gov.

Murphy: I got a lot more applause than criticism.

David: On the fare holidays?

All right.

Gov.

Murphy: We need to find a permanent source of funding.

I applaud the corporations that will put a lot of coin into this, and God willing they will get a lot back from this because they employ an overwhelming amount of our folks.

But that was the tip of the cap to say it was a lousy summer.

This isn't the solution.

Never said it was the solution, but we owe you something.

That is what that was.

David: On the other hand, whereas you want commuters to show that it is NJ Transit's problem, but also external issues, but at the same time, 3% fare hikes in perpetuity whether you are doing well or not doing well?

Gov.

Murphy: After 60 years of no fare hikes.

We have to keep up.

It is a reality.

I promised folks we would get this fixed and I reiterate that promise today.

It is not cheap.

By the way, there are funding sources all over the place.

The corporate transit fee, the rate hike.

The estate is still putting a bunch in every year.

The Turnpike is committed to a long-term support of NJ Transit.

All of it is reality.

We cannot get there on any one of the legs of the stool.

David: Is it fair to ask there be some benchmarks that the agency should meet?

Because they don't even have public hearings on those automatic fare hikes.

Should they be required to meet some benchmarks?

Gov.

Murphy: I am open to that.

But folks, when they are hearing 3%, the fare hike is what it is, then it is indexed.

That is the reason there are no hearings.

Folks know what that is going to be in perpetuity.

Am I open-minded?

Absolutely.

I want you to know, I am very tough on NJ Transit.

To their credit, they are very hard on themselves.

They are not happy with this summer either.

We want to give people what they pay for and they didn't get it this summer.

Our commitment is to do just that.

David: Are you riding it more often?

Gov.

Murphy: Less.

I have to get back to it.

I was riding once a week during COVID.

I want to get back to doing it.

Our kids ride it all the time.

They have had largely good experiences.

Knocking on wood because we have one of them on the rails today.

[laughter] David: Commuter advocates still vacant.

People say it has been years now.

I think the last we heard is it is difficult to find a qualified candidate.

But the agency has researched, found, made a deal with, and closed on a huge lease here in our building upstairs, and you are able to do that, but you cannot find a commuter advocate?

Gov.

Murphy: Two things.

That is an NJ Transit board decision.

I am not on the board.

Any of this.

I strongly encourage them to fill that position, as I have from moment one.

I think you know this as well as I do.

All you have to do is go on social media and find out what the consumers and commuters think about the service.

While that position should be filled, it is the right thing to do, we have a very stark, real-time sense of how the commuter is feeling about their experience.

David: And you encapsulated it by saying it sucked.

Gov.

Murphy: I said it myself.

This summer was not acceptable.

Before we get -- David: Before we get into the weeds, how was Toronto?

One man's trade mission is another man's junket.

How -- what can we say in five years where we can say, that came out of the trade mission to India or Israel?

Gov.

Murphy: If you come with us on these missions and follow my wife and me all around, junket is the last word you will think of.

We work our tails off.

In Toronto, a three city visit.

Ottawa, largely government and some start up.

Toronto, largely film and television where New Jersey is now a superpower in that business.

And mom trail which was built around a finte--Montreal which was built around a fintech conference.

Last fall, we went to South Korea, Taiwan, Japan.

There is a very significant corporate that is very seriously, I would say high probability, to partner with us doing big manufacturing innervation hub in New Jersey.

That would be a huge deal.

You mention India.

We have gotten thousands of jobs out of that trip and that continues to be the case.

You've got higher Ed joint research projects.

We have now done eight countries.

We will do a few more.

Higher ed is a piece of this.

Cultural, government to government, and cold-blooded jobs and investment.

Homerun experience in Canada more broadly.

David: Speaking of getting into the weeds, a viewer question.

I still cannot homegrown marijuana.

It is double the price of neighboring states, the marijuana.

Five years hard time felony for growing your own.

It is not what voters intended.

What is his problem?

I added the accent.

Gov.

Murphy: I cannot speak to the Senate president but I have been open to home grow from day one.

I understand why we have not had it from day one.

You want to let the industry get on its feet.

And I would say to whoever the person is, God bless them for asking this.

I support it at the right moment.

I really believe that.

Let's get this thing up on its feet, particularly for the minority women and veteran owns -- veteran owned.

Look at some of our neighbors and how the industry is going there.

Not so hot.

It was too slow at the beginning.

I now think the pace is right.

Home grow should be on the list, on the agenda.

Let's let the industry get more on its feet first.

David: Rua -- are you a Harris fan?

Gov.

Murphy: They have been exceptional fans.

I cannot say enough good things about them.

David: That was a yes?

Gov.

Murphy: I cannot say enough good things about them.

David: OK. A couple of lawsuits out there right now.

The kind of stuff you cannot always comment on, so I will try to be artful in how a phrase the question.

Gov.

Murphy: Shocking.

David: [laughter] Settlement talks in school disaggregation lawsuit.

Some of the things they are talking about is expanding programs to let some kids go to school outside of their home districts.

Changes to vocational school admissions.

New magnet schools that would admit kids from surrounding regions.

You ultimately have to put your stamp of approval on any settlement.

Are those things the kind of changes needed to get your support?

Gov.

Murphy: You are absolutely right, I will not get into the details of these confidential discussions.

Let's remember that a big chunk of school segregation is due to housing segregation.

You cannot talk about schools only without talking about affordable housing, first-time homeowner allowances and other programs we have been pursuing since the beginning to make housing more affordable and more equitable.

But, listen, they are confidential discussions.

I will not get into the specifics.

But it feels like there is real progress being made.

We will see where this lands.

It looked like a really tough nut to crack.

I think all sides probably thought that in the beginning.

But I am knocking on wood again.

Progress feels like it is in the right direction.

We shall see.

David: Another lawsuit, this one brought by a couple towns, trying to block new affordable housing efforts.

Do some towns need to get with the program, or are there concerns out there that are legitimate enough to go to court over?

Gov.

Murphy: Again, I won't get into the specifics, but these nine towns are suing over legislation, which I signed earlier this year, which is landmark legislation, which will make the process for building out affordable housing a lot more transparent, a lot faster, a lot more equitable.

I am not a lawyer, but I am highly confident that law will hold up in court.

But again, we shall see.

David: I guess what I am trying to get to is what are their objections and do you agree?

Gov.

Murphy: I don't want to get into the specifics of why they filed this lawsuit, but I will say I am incredibly proud of the law I signed and the lawyers are telling me they are highly confident it will hold up in court.

David: Would you support Jersey City and Newark being required to fulfill -- to have a requirement for affordable housing?

Because currently they are exempted, and that is where a lot of the pressure on rents are going up.

In Jersey City, it is through the roof.

Gov.

Murphy: Anything that would have state money involved, we would require it.

We have a whole series of good government requirements.

Union labor.

Clearly, affordable housing.

So, if the state has any involvement in that, the answer is absolutely.

I spoke at an affordable housing conference yesterday.

We have a shortage of 200,000 units in the state.

So, we could move the needle in communities where we are not getting it to move right now.

I would be all for that.

David: I saw a piece about a federal bill to ban hedge funds from buying and owning single-family homes across the country.

They have been a scourge on a lot of towns, mine included.

Gov.

Murphy: I didn't see the article, but we have done a lot, especially with Senator Brittany Timberlake on working through that challenge to make sure that the so-called man on the street to buy a house is not crowded out by a big Financial Services player.

I am proud of the progress we have made.

MI open minded to do more -- am I open-minded to do more?

Absolutely.

David: Congress has called for a ban.

Are you for that?

Gov.

Murphy: I will come back to you on that.

David: What do you think of the new plan for Pompidou, the French museum?

Gov.

Murphy: We love the project.

This would have been a feather in the state's cap, in Jersey City's cap.

The math didn't work.

It was an unending deficit that was substantial, double digits, millions.

We said, we love the project.

And we do.

To this day, I love it.

But we will not fund something that never sees the light of day as a financial matter.

I have not dug into his plan, to be honest with you.

If it can get built -- the big thing is the local community embraces it.

If the citizens in that neighborhood in Jersey City embrace it and to support it, that puts it in an entirely different place than if you're fighting with them.

I cannot tell you the specifics but if the locals want it, they deserve to get a shot.

David: A couple environmental questions.

You conditionally vetoed this relief bill and people called it cowardly and despicable.

What happened?

That got unanimous approval in the legislature.

Gov.

Murphy: I don't want to speak for the legislature, but I have a high degree of confidence that that conditional veto will be confirmed by the legislature.

We made that in our judgment stronger, not weaker.

It is going to protect the legal challenges to anyone's settlement.

You are seeing a conflating between so-called blue Akers programs, where you basically say no mas.

I have been flooded three or four times, and if someone raises their hand voluntarily.

Versus action that can be taken unilaterally against an individual who does not see it that way.

This cleans that up and makes the legal lines clear.

We think it makes it stronger.

If I thought this was going to sit around for many more months, I would not have gone that route.

We have a high degree of confidence this will get settled soon.

David: It is a very emotional reaction.

Gov.

Murphy: It sure is.

I have been in the neighborhoods myself.

David: What is your message?

Gov.

Murphy: We are still here.

We've still got your back.

This is a specific message.

When I got here, there were families in overwhelming pain still from Sandy, and it had been how many years later?

Seven or eight years later.

I don't want to walk out of here with another set of families who were crushed by Ida in that same pain.

I want to make sure the legal lines are drawn and their claims are rightfully processed, and that is our objective.

David: You say you will sign a casino smoking ban.

My question to you is, do you think that casinos should be smoke-free?

Gov.

Murphy: As a health matter, I have said this from day one.

I am not sure what the debate is.

But folks need to understand there is a union that is with the dealers, and another larger union that sees this differently.

Folks need to understand that, number one.

Number two, we never thought this would be settled in court.

It turns out, we were right, including the New Jersey Supreme Court has said they will not hear this.

Thirdly, it needs to be settled by legislation.

I have said for years, if a bill comes to my desk, I will sign it.

David: Is it fair to criticize you -- Gov.

Murphy: I'm sure.

David: [laughter] For going to see Donald Trump, or hanging out with Jared Kushner?

Trump is a very unlikable guy.

I will say that myself.

What could you possibly talk about with Donald Trump?

Gov.

Murphy: During the dark, dark days of COVID -- so this is March, April, May June of 2020, we were on the verge of losing many thousands more lives.

That White House, for all the criticism I have of them -- you can imagine who's side I am on this year, whose side I was on when President Biden or Secretary Clinton ran -- they saved, working with us, literally thousands of lives, and I will never forget that.

That is where I will leave it.

I am a proud Democrat but I am also a proud American, and more importantly, the governor of New Jersey, everybody in New Jersey, not just some of us.

David: Viewer question.

$800 million for a Camden arena?

Why doesn't state government have a Marshall plan for truly distressed areas of the city?

It is always corporate interests first, residents second.

That is more of a statement.

Gov.

Murphy: I respect the question but they don't understand with the project is.

I don't know that we are going to get it.

I don't know where this lands.

It will either remain in Philadelphia or come to Camden.

This is transformational.

This is an arena, it is housing, it is affordable housing, it is mixed use, it is parks, fairies -- parks, ferries.

Camden has been on a good project tree -- a good trajectory.

The economic benefits to that community will be overwhelming if this thing lands in Camden and I hope it does.

David: I've got about 30 seconds.

I am not trying to push you out of office, but are you thinking yet about what is the next thing?

Podcast?

Gov.

Murphy: No.

[laughter] May cohosting with you.

We have so much on our agenda with you.

We are committed to sprint to the tape over the next 16 months, and that is exactly what we are doing.

There's all sorts of -- whether it is from clemency to our economic agenda and lots in between, we have a full plate.

David: Is there one thing, maybe a state bank?

I just threw that in there to mess with you.

Gov.

Murphy: I still want to do that.

David: You have two years left to do that.

Gov.

Murphy: 16 months.

I wish I had two years.

David: Great to see you.

That is "Chat Box" for this week.

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I am David Cruz.

For all the crew here at Gateway Center in downtown Newark, thanks for watching.

We will see you next week.

Announcer: Major funding for "Chat Box with David Cruz" is provided by the members of the New Jersey Education Association, making public schools great for every child.

♪