>>> MAJOR FUNDING FOR "CHAT BOX" WITH DAVID CRUZ IS PROVIDED BY NJM INSURANCE GROUP, SERVING THE INSURANCE NEEDS OF NEW JERSEY RESIDENTS AND BUSINESSES FOR MORE THAN 100 YEARS.

PROMOTIONAL SUPPORT IS PROVIDED BY INSIDER NJ, A POLITICAL INTELLIGENCE NETWORK DEDICATED TO NEW JERSEY POLITICAL NEWS.

INSIDER NJ IS COMMITTED TO GIVING SERIOUS POLITICAL PLAYERS AN INTERACTIVE FORUM FOR IDEAS, DISCUSSION AND INSIGHT.

ONLINE AT INSIDERNJ.COM.

♪♪ ♪♪ >>> FOR THE FIRST TIME IN OVER A DECADE THE MAN SEATED AND APPEARING OVER THE GOVERNOR'S SHOULDER AT THE ANNUAL BUDGET ADDRESS WAS NOT FORMER SENATE PRESIDENT STEVE SWEENEY.

HI, EVERYBODY, THIS IS "CHAT BOX," I'M DAVID CRUZ.

FORMER SENATE PRESIDENT STEVE SWEENEY ENDED HIS 12-YEAR RUN AS SENATE PRESIDENT IN JANUARY AND HAS MOSTLY LAID LOW UNTIL THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF THE SWEENEY CENTER AT ROWAN UNIVERSITY.

WE WILL TALK ABOUT THAT AND A WHOLE LOT MORE AS WE WELCOME STEVE SWEENEY BACK TO "CHAT BOX."

GOOD TO SEE YOU, MAN.

>> GREAT TO SEE YOU, DAVID.

>> IT WAS A LITTLE STRANGE, I HAVE TO ADMIT, WE'RE WATCHING THE BUDGET SPEECH AND WE SEE SENATOR SCATARI BEHIND GOVERNOR MURPHY.

HOW MUCH DO YOU MISS THE GAME RIGHT NOW?

>> YOU KNOW, DAVID, OBVIOUSLY TO SAY IT WOULDN'T BE TRUTHFUL.

I MISS IT A LOT.

I MISS THE CAMARADERIE WITH THE MEMBERS OF THE SENATE, I VALUED MY RELATIONSHIPS WITH EVERYONE UP THERE AND I'M VERY HAPPY FOR NICK, THESE AREN'T LIFE-TIME POSITIONS AND I'M HAPPY FOR NICK TO GET HIS TURN.

I DIDN'T EXPECT IT THIS EARLY, BUT IT'S HIS TURN.

SO, YEAH, I MISS T I MISS IT, DAVID, BUT I'M REALLY EXCITED ABOUT ROWAN UNIVERSITY AND OUR THINK TANK.

>> YOU BEGAN YOUR ELECTED CAREER I JUST FOUND THIS OUT TODAY, YOU WERE FREEHOLDER, WHAT WAS KNOWN AS A FREEHOLDER THEN, NOW COUNTY COMMISSIONER BUT I DIDN'T REALIZE YOU WERE ELECTED IN 1997.

THIS IS YOUR FIRST MONTH OF -- IN OVER A QUARTER CENTURY WHERE YOU WERE NOT AN ELECTED OFFICIAL.

IS THAT WEIRD?

>> OF COURSE.

IT'S -- IT BECAME PART OF YOUR LIFE, BECAME PART OF YOUR ROUTINE.

I COULD TELL YOU YOUR PHONE DOESN'T RING AS OFTEN, YOU KNOW?

BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT YOU DON'T HAVE A LOT OF FRIENDS OUT THERE.

SO, YEAH, IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT FEEL, BUT, YOU KNOW, I'M ADJUSTING TO IT AND, AGAIN, EXCITED IN WHAT WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT SHORTLY.

>> SO AS YOU PROMISED YOU LAUNCHED THE STEVE SWEENEY CENTER FOR PUBLIC POLICY AT ROWAN UNIVERSITY, YOU SAID YOU WOULD COME BACK ON THE SHOW AND TALK ABOUT IT.

HERE WE ARE.

WHAT'S YOUR ROLE GOING TO BE THERE?

>> I'M GOING TO CHAIR IT, DAVID, AND JUST TO BE CLEAR, IT'S A NONPAID POSITION, SO NO ONE HAS TO QUESTION THAT.

>> RIGHT.

>> THIS IS THE STUFF THAT ACTUALLY EXCITES ME THE MOST AND IT ALWAYS DID IN GOVERNMENT, WAS LOOKING AT THE COMPLEX PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE AND COMING UP WITH SOLUTIONS.

LIKE, DAVID, WE FIXED THE PENSION FUND, WE GOT IT FUNDED, YOU KNOW?

WE ARE ON THE TRACK OF SCHOOL FUNDING, INITIATIVES THAT WE DID.

WE GOT A BOND RATING UPGRADE BECAUSE A LOT OF THINGS THAT THE LEGISLATURE DID WITH THE GOVERNOR LAST YEAR, YOU KNOW, WITH THE DEATH DEFEASANCE CAME FROM THE LEGISLATURE, FULLY FUNDING THE PENSION IN PARTNERSHIP WITH THE ADMINISTRATION.

LONG STORY SHORT I LIKE FIXING THINGS, DAVID, AND, LOOK, RIGHT NOW IN NEW JERSEY YOU HAVE TWO THINK TANKS, ONE ALL THE WAY TO THE LEFT AND ONE ALL THE WAY TO THE RIGHT AND THAT'S WHAT'S WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY.

I'M IN THE MIDDLE AND THIS THINK TANK THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE IS -- THE BOARD IS GOING TO BE VERY BIPARTISAN, IT'S GOING TO BE TACKLING THINGS THAT WE ALL KNOW THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED, YOU KNOW, DAVID, THERE IS A LOT OF THINGS THAT SCHOOL CONSOLIDATION, WE STARTED THE CONVERSATION, WE GOT SCHOOLS TALKING ABOUT IT, NOW WE'VE GOT TO GET IT OVER TO THE GOAL LINE.

CONSENSUS FORECASTING FOR BUDGETING, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE YEAR BUDGETING, THINGS THAT OTHER STATES DO AND DO WELL AND WILL MAKE NEW JERSEY A BETTER STATE AND LOOK BETTER IN THE EYES OF THE FINANCIAL PEOPLE, TOO, SHOWING THAT WE'RE RESPONSIBLE.

WE'VE MADE SOME GREAT STRIDES, WE'VE MADE SOME GREAT STEPS AND, YOU KNOW, THE GOVERNOR ANNOUNCED THIS NEW REBATE PROGRAM AND THAT'S GREAT, BUT -- AND I MEAN BUT -- THE REAL COST OF GOVERNMENT HAS TO BE ADDRESSED AND THAT'S WHAT WE LOOK TO DO HERE.

>> SO HOW ARE YOU GOING TO DO THAT?

WHAT'S THE ACTUAL WORK OF THE SWEENEY CENTER GOING TO BE?

>> WELL, FIRST I HIRED SOMEBODY A LOT SMARTER THAN ME OR ROWAN DID, MARK, WHO IS OUR POLICY DIRECTOR.

WHEN I WAS IN THE SENATE AND THINGS WE DID FROM THE PORT AUTHORITY, BUS TERMINAL, TO TRANSPORTATION ISSUES.

SO HAVING MARK AT THE HELM OF THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.

LOOK, I'M GETTING CALLS FROM ALL OVER THE STATE FROM EXPERTS IN DIFFERENT AREAS -- IN THEIR DIFFERENT AREAS OF EXPERTISE SAYING I WANT IN.

I WANT TO HELP.

YOU KNOW, WE'VE BUILT SOME CREDIBILITY OVER THE YEARS, DAVID, THAT WE DO KNOW HOW TO FIX THINGS.

THE EASY THINGS HAVE BEEN DONE.

THE REBATE PROGRAM IS GREAT BUT THEY ARE NEVER SUSTAINABLE.

WE NEED TO FOCUS ON THE THINGS THAT ARE OUT THERE DRIVING THE COST OF GOVERNMENT.

I WILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

SALEM COUNTY THEY GOT THEIR STUDY BACK.

IF THEY DO THE EASIEST PART OF CONSOLIDATION, WHICH IS BASICALLY JUST CREATING AN ADMINISTRATIVE DISTRICT, THEY'RE GOING TO SAVE BETWEEN 6.5 AND 8 MILLION DOLLARS JUST BY NOT CLOSING SCHOOLS, MOVING KIDS, DOING NOTHING BUT HAVING A REGIONAL ADMINISTRATION.

SO IF WE REALLY WANT TO SAVE MONEY THERE'S MONEY TO BE SAVED OUT THERE, DAVID, AND SALEM IS THE SMALLEST COUNTY IN THE STATE, AS YOU KNOW.

>> SO HOW DOES THE SWEENEY CENTER DEAL WITH THAT, CREATING LIKE WHITE PAPERS, HAVING SYMPOSIA, THAT KIND OF STUFF?

>> ALL OF THE ABOVE.

AND WORKING WITH LEGISLATORS, CURRENT LEGISLATORS, TO PITCH THE IDEAS WITH THE ADMINISTRATION THAT CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

HEY, DAVID, I WAS OVER THE TOP THRILLED WHEN I HEARD THAT THE GOVERNOR IS FULLY FUNDING EXTRAORDINARY SPECIAL EDUCATION.

THAT'S SOMETHING WE STARTED YEARS AGO AND HE'S CONTINUING IT AND WE FINALLY GOT TO 100% FUNDING.

I'M FOREVER GRATEFUL THAT THE GOVERNOR INCLUDED THAT FUNDING.

YOU KNOW, SO, AGAIN, IT'S PUTTING THINGS IN PLACE -- NOTHING GETS FIXED OVERNIGHT HERE, NOR CAN IT BE.

SCHOOL FUNDING, SEVEN-YEAR RAMP UP, BUT GUESS WHAT, I THINK WE ARE AT YEAR FIVE NOW.

YOU KNOW, AGAIN, DAVID, IT'S PUTTING PLANS IN PLACE TO SEE THE RATING AGENCIES RECOGNIZE THAT WE'RE DOING THINGS BETTER NOW.

THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN IN ONE MONTH, THAT'S HAPPENED BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN WORKING FOR YEARS TO DO IT AS THE GOVERNOR SAID.

WE'VE BUILT UPON YEARS OF SERVICE SO, YOU KNOW, THE PANDEMIC REALLY SLOWED US DOWN.

WE WERE -- WHEN WE DID THE PATH TO PROGRESS, THEY WERE THE OBVIOUS TOUGH THINGS THAT ADMINISTRATIONS AND PARTIES DIDN'T WANT TO DO FOR YEARS AND WE WERE MAKING PROGRESS ON IT AND THEN WE HAD TO STOP.

BUT 70 SCHOOL DISTRICTS AROUND THE STATE ACTUALLY STUDYING CONSOLIDATION NOW.

THAT'S ONE HELL OF A POSITIVE SIGN.

SO, LOOK, NEW JERSEY IN MY MIND IS THE GREATEST STATE IN THE COUNTRY.

IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED AND IT'S FIXABLE.

YOU KNOW, DAVID, I WANT TO SAY REAL QUICK, SELF-SERVICE GAS, WHAT'S NOT BROKEN, DON'T NEED TO BE FIXED.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

I LEFT AND THEY TRIED TO RUSH THIS THROUGH.

NEW JERSEY -- >> I HAD THAT AS ONE OF THE QUESTIONS I WAS GOING TO ASK YOU.

SO YOU'RE NOT A PROPONENT NECESSARILY OF PEOPLE PUMPING THEIR OWN GAS?

>> DAVID, I'M PAYING $5 A GALLON RIGHT NOW, WHEN GAS GOES DOWN YOU WON'T KNOW WHETHER YOU WERE PAYING FOR IT OR NOT.

AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED.

AND THERE'S 10,000 PEOPLE THAT PUMP GAS IN NEW JERSEY THAT HAVE JOBS PUMPING GAS.

YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A PROPONENT.

THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH NEW JERSEY FINALLY BEING THE ONLY ONE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT.

AND I BELIEVE WE'RE DOING IT RIGHT.

>> SO WHAT'S THE CENTER -- I IMAGINE THAT WORK HAS ALREADY BEGUN ON THE FIRST ISSUE THAT YOU'RE GOING TO TACKLE EITHER BY A SYMPOSIA OR BY ISSUING A REPORT.

WHAT'S THE FIRST EVENT THAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE COMING OUT OF THE INSTITUTE THERE?

>> YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE-YEAR BUDGETING, FIRST THINGS WE'RE LOOKING AT IS CONSENSUS FORECASTING, MULTIPLE YEAR BUDGETING AND SCHOOL CONSOLIDATION.

I'M EXCITED BECAUSE WE GOT LUCILLE DAVIE, FORMER EDUCATIONAL COMMISSIONER, SHE'S INVOLVED, SHE'S GOING TO BE A FELLOW, MIKE VRANCHEK WHO VERY MUCH UNDERSTANDS BUDGETING, HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN STATE BUDGET FOR YEARS.

SO WE'RE BRINGING ON EXPERTS THAT HAVE CREDIBILITY AMONGST BOTH PARTIES AND, AGAIN, HAVING A BIPARTISAN BOARD, DAVID, AND THE BOARDS ARE GOING TO BE VERY BIPARTISAN.

WE'RE GOING TO BE ABLE TO SELL THINGS THAT NEED TO BE SOLD AND AT THE END OF THE DAY WE ALL AGREE NEW JERSEY IS TOO EXPENSIVE.

WE CAN DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT OR WE CAN JUST COMPLAIN.

I WANT TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

>> YOU MENTIONED MARK, HE'S BEEN ON YOUR STAFF FOR SOME TIME AND HE'S THE FIRST HIRE OVER THERE, THAT PROMPTED SENATOR DURR, YOUR SENATOR, BY THE WAY, TO SAY THAT THE SWEENEY CENTER CAN'T BE BIPARTISAN.

>> WELL, THAT'S -- LISTEN, I'M GOING TO GIVE HIM THE CREDIT OF BEING NEW AND BEING NAIVE.

WATCH WHAT WE DO AND THEN TELL ME I'M NOT -- ASK ANY REPUBLICAN SENATOR THAT'S SITTING THERE NOW IF I HAVEN'T BEEN BIPARTISAN IN MY ENTIRE CAREER.

>> I GUESS YOU COULD ASK CHRIS CHRISTIE THAT QUESTION, TOO.

>> YOU COULD ASK CHRIS CHRISTIE THAT, TOO.

I FOUGHT WITH HIM AS MUCH AS I WORKED WITH HIM AND EVERYONE KNOWS THAT.

SO YOU CAN'T RECREATE THE PAST.

THE PAST IS THE PAST AND I'M PROUD OF WHAT WE DID AND I FOUGHT WITH CHRISTIE AND CALLED HIM BAD NAMES AT TIMES WHEN HE DESERVED IT AND WHEN WE DID THINGS LIKE REORGANIZING HIGHER EDUCATION, A LEGACY MOMENT IN THIS STATE THAT OTHER GOVERNORS COULDN'T DO, HE DESERVES THE CREDIT FOR IT, DAVID.

LISTEN, ONE THING NOW NOT BEING SENATE PRESIDENT ALLOWS ME TO DO IS COMPLETELY BE BIPARTISAN AND HOPEFULLY MY SUCCESSOR RECOGNIZES THAT AND TRIES TO BE BIPARTISAN AND NOT PARTISAN.

>> EVERYBODY TALKS ABOUT YOUR STATE OF MIND ALMOST, YOU KNOW, AFTER YOU LEFT, BUT IT REALLY DOES GIVE YOU A FREEDOM TO BE, AS YOU SAID, BIPARTISAN, BUT ALSO TO NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT THE POLITICAL RAMIFICATIONS NECESSARILY OF EVERYTHING THAT COMES OUT OF -- OUT OF ROWAN, RIGHT?

>> YEAH.

WELL, LISTEN, ROWAN, YOU KNOW, UNDER DHAKA WE HAVE THREE MEDICAL SCHOOLS, 20,000 KIDS.

THERE ARE ONLY TWO STATES IN THE COUNTRY LIKE ROWAN, MICHIGAN STATE AND ROWAN.

I WANTED TO BE AT ROWAN, DAVID, AND, AGAIN, GOOD POLICY IS REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRAT AND INDEPENDENT.

GOOD IS GOOD, BAD IS BAD.

AND WHAT HAPPENS IS -- AND NOT KNOCKING THE OTHER THINK TANKS, LIKE THEY'RE SERVING THE PURPOSE THEY WERE SET UP FOR.

THE PROBLEM IS 10% ON BOTH SIDES IS DRIVING WHAT 80% WANT AND I'M WELL 80% TRYING TO DRIVE COMMON SENSE SOLUTIONS TO PROBLEMS THAT HAVE REALLY DOGGED THIS STATE FOR YEARS.

>> EVERYBODY SAYS THIS IS A SIGNAL, A FIRST STEP, THAT STEVE SWEENEY IS NOT DONE WITH POLITICS.

WE ALREADY HAVE ONE REPUBLICAN ANNOUNCED THAT HE'S RUNNING FOR GOVERNOR IN 2025.

DO YOU WANT TO JUMP IN HERE RIGHT NOW AND SAY THAT YOU'RE IN FOR GOVERNOR IN 2025?

>> YOU'RE NOT GETTING ME.

GOOD TRY.

LISTEN, I SAID I WASN'T DONE.

I DON'T KNOW WHERE LIFE IS GOING TO TAKE ME.

WHAT I DO KNOW RIGHT NOW IS I'VE BEEN GIVEN AN OPPORTUNITY TO DO SOMETHING I CARE A GREAT DEAL ABOUT, WHICH IS MAKING GOVERNMENT MORE EFFICIENT AND MORE AFFORDABLE AND MAKING NEW JERSEY THE PLACE THAT WE ALL DESERVE TO STAY, LIVE, WORK AND NOT HAVE TO MOVE WHEN YOU RETIRE.

HERE IS THE GOOD NEWS, THERE'S PLENTY OF ROOM TO BRING THE COSTS DOWN.

WE HAVE THE MOST EXPENSIVE GOVERNMENT THAT YOU CAN POSSIBLY HAVE.

SO THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS WE CAN DO TO BRING THE COSTS DOWN.

I SAY, DAVID, THE BIGGEST REGRET -- PROBABLY THE BIGGEST REGRET THAT I HAD IN THE 12 YEARS AS SENATE PRESIDENT IS I DIDN'T MAKE THE PROPERTY TAX CAP ZERO.

I MADE IT 2%.

IF YOU REMEMBER, CHRISTIE WAS AT 2.5, I CAME IN AT 2 AND I UNDERESTIMATED MYSELF.

WE SHOULD HAVE DONE ZERO BECAUSE I'M TELLING YOU RIGHT NOW THESE TOWNS WOULD HAVE CAME IN -- MAYORS ARE VERY TALENTED PEOPLE, BRAVE PEOPLE, MAYORS AND COUNCIL PEOPLE AND COMMISSIONERS.

IF YOU GIVE THEM A MARK THEY'LL HIT IT AND UNFORTUNATELY I MISJUDGED IT.

2% IN MY MIND IS TOO MUCH.

>> DID YOU WATCH THE GOVERNOR'S BUDGET SPEECH THIS WEEK?

>> YES.

YES.

>> $48.9 BILLION, I THINK THAT'S THE LARGEST STATE BUDGET EVER.

WHAT POPPED OUT OF YOU IMMEDIATELY?

>> WHAT POPPED OUT AT ME IS THAT -- LOOK, THERE IS A LOT OF GOOD THINGS IN THAT BUDGET, A LOT OF GOOD THINGS.

AND GREAT WITH THE REBATE PROGRAM AND I VOTED FOR REBATE PROGRAMS, BUT TO BE PERFECTLY HONEST WITH YOU THEY ARE NOT SUSTAINABLE, THEY DON'T WORK AND IT'S NOT ATTACKING WHAT'S WRONG.

WE NEED TO NEGOTIATE A NEW PENSION PLAN.

WE NEGOTIATED A NEW HEALTH CARE PLAN WITH THE TEACHERS WHEN I WAS THERE, DAVID, AND, AGAIN, DRIVING -- DRIVING MORE SHARED SERVICES, CONSOLIDATIONS TO TRY TO BRING THE COST OF GOVERNMENT DOWN.

AND, LOOK, WHAT I PICKED UP ON, WHICH MADE ME VERY HAPPY, IS WHEN I WAS LEAVING I KEPT SAYING, HEY, GUYS, AFFORDABILITY, AFFORDABILITY.

AND WHEN I LEFT I HEARD EVERYONE SAY, THE SPEAKER, THE SENATE PRESIDENT AND THE GOVERNOR, WE'RE GOING TO FOCUS ON AFFORDABILITY.

AND I'M THRILLED THAT HE'S ANNOUNCED A BUDGET WITH NO TAX INCREASES AND FEES.

ENOUGH OF THAT.

IT'S TIME TO GO IN THE OTHER DIRECTION.

>> SO MUCH MONEY FLOODING INTO THE STATE COFFERS, IT'S REALLY TEMPTING TO SPEND IT ALL.

DOES THIS BUDGET REPRESENT IN YOUR MIND A DRUNK SPENDING SPREE OR IMPORTANT INVESTMENTS?

>> WELL, I HAVEN'T SEEN -- LISTEN, EDUCATION IS AN IMPORTANT INVESTMENT, YOU KNOW, DAVID, AND I'M THRILLED THAT HE'S INVESTING IN PRE-K.

I DON'T THINK ANY OF THAT IS WASTED, I THINK THAT IS INVALUABLE, BUT WE'VE GOT A LOT OF FEDERAL MONEY STILL.

WE NEED TO FIX OUR UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM.

WE NEED TO FIX OUR MOTOR VEHICLE SYSTEM.

I LOOK AT A LOT OF THAT MONEY AND SAY LET'S FIX NEW JERSEY GOVERNMENT AND THEN IF THERE'S THINGS LEFT OVER OBVIOUSLY WE WILL SPEND IT WHERE IT'S APPROPRIATE TO FIX PROBLEMS.

WE'RE VERY FORTUNATE THAT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAS GAVE US ALL THIS FEDERAL MONEY FOR OUR ROADS AND BRIDGES AND OUR INFRASTRUCTURE.

WE'RE GOING TO GET OUR INFRASTRUCTURE UP.

THOSE TYPE OF INVESTMENTS ARE IMPORTANT.

I WILL GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE.

SMALL THING, OUR BROAD WALKS.

OUR BOARDWALKS ARE FALLING APART.

OUR BOARDWALKS GENERATE LOTS OF MONEY, LOTS OF TAX MONEY FOR THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY, TOURISM DOLLARS.

I'M HOPEFUL THAT THEY'RE GOING TO PUT A POT TOGETHER TO REBUILD THE BOARDWALKS AND NOT GIVE IT AWAY, 75/25 MATCH, SOMETHING LIKE THAT SO THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GOING TO BUILD WHAT YOU NEED AND NOT WHAT YOU WANT.

BUT, YOU KNOW, LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT, DAVID.

AGAIN, MOTOR VEHICLE NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

YOU KNOW, OUR UNEMPLOYMENT SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE INVESTED IN AND IMPROVED.

YOU KNOW, I'M NOT -- I'M NOT AN ANTI-ROB ASERIO GUY.

I THINK ROB HAS DONE THE BEST HE CAN.

WHAT PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND AND I'M NOT SOMEONE AS AN EXCUSER, EITHER, BUT WHAT PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND IS THERE'S HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS THAT NEVER PAID INTO UNEMPLOYMENT THAT GOT UNEMPLOYMENT.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

THE SYSTEM WAS BUILT FOR WHAT WE HAD AND YOU BASICALLY EXPANDED IT DRAMATICALLY WITHOUT EXPANDING THE WORKFORCE.

THE WORKERS NEED TO COME BACK, DAVID, ALL THE WORKERS NEED TO BE BACK IN THEIR BUILDINGS NOW, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY IT'S EASY TO CRITICIZE.

THERE'S OTHER UNDERLYING PROBLEMS THAT NEED TO BE ADDRESSED.

>> IT'S ALMOST LIKE A HOUSE OF CARDS OVER AT UNEMPLOYMENT AND MOTOR VEHICLES.

YOU GET A COMPUTER TO GO DOWN, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT THE UNEMPLOYMENT OFFICE, ONE COMPUTER GOES DOWN, NOBODY GETS THEIR UNEMPLOYMENT CHECKS.

I MEAN, WE STILL HAVE -- WE WERE HEARING THIS WEEK, PEOPLE WHO WERE SAYING THAT THEY STILL HAVEN'T RECEIVED UNEMPLOYMENT CHECKS FROM MONTHS AND MONTHS AGO.

>> YEAH.

WELL, LIKE I SAID, DAVID, THAT'S WHY HAVING THIS FEDERAL MONEY, WE NEED TO INVEST IT.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING, DAVID?

WE KNOW WHERE WE HAVE PROBLEMS.

>> THIS GOVERNOR, THOUGH, SENATOR, HE DIDN'T EVEN MENTION EITHER OF THOSE TWO THINGS AS AN EXPENDITURE THAT WAS NECESSARY.

>> WELL, LISTEN, BUT HE DID HIS BUDGET.

THESE ARE FEDERAL DOLLARS THAT ARE SEPARATE THAT ARE DONE THROUGH JBAC SO THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S NOT ON HIS RADAR.

AGAIN, THIS IS A ONCE IN A LIFETIME OPPORTUNITY TO FIX SOME PROBLEMS THAT YOU HAVE.

YOU KNOW, THE MONEY FELL OUT OF THE SKIES, IT FELL OUT OF -- CAME FROM WASHINGTON JUST LAID IT ON OUR LAPS AND YOU CAN MAKE THE INVESTMENTS TO MAKE SURE THE THINGS THAT DON'T WORK NOW WORK IN THE FUTURE, OR YOU CAN IGNORE IT.

AND I'M HOPEFUL, AND I HONESTLY THINK THAT THE ADMINISTRATION IS GOING TO PAY ATTENTION TO, YOU KNOW, BEFORE WE FIX OTHER THINGS, WE HAVE TO FIX OURSELVES.

WE NEED TO INVEST IN NEW JERSEY'S GOVERNMENT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S FUNCTIONAL.

WE GAVE MONEY TO HOSPITALS TO BE PREPARED NEXT TIME, RIGHT, FOR THE PANDEMIC.

IT WAS A WISE INVESTMENT.

YOU KNOW, WE DID IT SOUTH, CENTRAL, NORTH.

SO, AGAIN, I THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, IT'S A LOT OF MONEY IN THE BUDGET, WITHOUT QUESTION, BUT WE NEED TO INVEST IT THE PROPER WAY AND I THINK A LOT OF THE THINGS THE GOVERNOR SPOKE ABOUT ARE GOOD INVESTMENTS.

I JUST -- REBATE PROGRAMS, I WOULD RATHER SEE GO INTO FIXING THINGS.

>> LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT.

IT'S SOMETHING LIKE A $900 MILLION PROGRAM, BUT YOU MAKE THE POINT ABOUT HOW THESE ARE NOT SUSTAINABLE AND THAT SOMETIMES EVEN MONEY THAT GETS INTO THAT BUDGET LINE GETS TAKEN OUT AND PUT INTO THE GENERAL OPERATING FUNDS.

IS THAT HOW THESE KIND OF FUNDS DIE?

>> OF COURSE.

>> THESE PROGRAMS?

YEAH.

>> BECAUSE WE DO -- HERE IS WHY MULTIPLE-YEAR BUDGETING IS IMPORTANT, BECAUSE YOU HAVE A BETTER WINDOW OF PROJECTION TO SEE IF YOU'RE HAVING A BAD YEAR COMING AND YOU DON'T SPEND AS MUCH THE YEAR BEFORE.

YOU KNOW, COUNTY GOVERNMENTS, YOU HAVE TO DO -- WHICH I'M FAMILIAR WITH -- FIVE-YEAR BUDGETING, SIX-YEAR CAPITAL PLANS.

THERE'S NO REASON THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY SHOULDN'T GET ONE MULTIPLE YEAR.

LISTEN, I'M NOT EXPECTING FIVE.

DO TWO.

DO A TWO-YEAR BUDGET SO THAT YOU CAN SEE WHAT'S COMING YOUR WAY AND THIS WAY YOU DON'T -- YOU DON'T SPEND ALL THE MONEY THIS YEAR AND BE BROKE NEXT YEAR.

>> YOU MENTIONED SCHOOL FUNDING, PRE-K AND SPECIAL ED, ET CETERA.

THE GOVERNOR STATED ABOUT 24% OF THIS BUDGET IS SCHOOL FUNDING.

HE TALKED ABOUT THE SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA, BUT DIDN'T SAY IT NEEDED TO BE REFORMED, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT YOU SAY ALL THE TIME, RIGHT, THIS SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA NEEDS FIXING.

WHY DOES IT NEED FIXING?

>> I SAY IT NEEDS TO BE REVIEWED.

>> OKAY.

>> I'M NOT SAYING IT NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> I THINK, LIKE ANYTHING, IT SHOULD BE LOOKED AT EVERY SO MANY YEARS, DAVID, JUST TO MAKE SURE IT'S HITTING ITS MARKS.

I ACTUALLY BELIEVE SINCE I WAS INVOLVED IN THE SCHOOL FUNDING FORMULA AND I WAS THE SPONSOR OF S-2 THAT STARTED FIXING THE DISPARITIES AMONGST THE FUNDING, I THINK WE DID GOOD.

NOW, IN MY MIND WE'RE GIVING SCHOOLS A LOT OF MONEY NOW, A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY AND THEY'VE BEEN RUNNING THEIR SCHOOLS.

MAYBE SOME OF THAT MONEY SHOULD GO BACK TO TAXPAYERS.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN?

MAYBE A DOLLAR GOES TO THE SCHOOL, A DOLLAR GOES TO THE TAX -- BACK TO, YOU KNOW -- IT HAS TO BE USED TO REDUCE TAXES.

DO BOTH BECAUSE A LOT OF THESE SCHOOL DISTRICTS WERE RUNNING THEIR SCHOOLS WHETHER WE WERE FUNDING THEM PROPERLY OR NOT.

THEY WERE RUNNING THEIR SCHOOLS.

NOW THEY'RE GETTING A LOT OF MONEY.

SO PROBABLY A CRAZY THING TO SAY AND IT WILL PROBABLY MAKE SCHOOL BOARD PEOPLE GET VERY UPSET, BUT SOME OF THAT MONEY SHOULD GO BACK TO TAXPAYERS TO REDUCE THEIR PROPERTY TAXES.

>> SO WE ALSO GOT OUR FIRST UPGRADE -- BY WE AND US I MEAN THE STATE OF NEW JERSEY -- GOT THEIR FIRST CREDIT UP RATING, IT'S GOT TO BE AT LEAST A DECADE.

MOODY'S SAID NOT BAD, JERSEY.

THAT'S A CAUSE FOR CELEBRATION, RIGHT?

>> LISTEN, WHAT WE SAID, AND THE GOVERNOR SAID IN HIS BUDGET ADDRESS, WHAT WE DID TOGETHER OVER THE LAST FOUR YEARS, WHICH I WAS A BIG -- I WAS A PART OF, WAS GETTING THE PENSION FUNDING TO WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE.

YOU KNOW, DAVID, AND THAT'S A BIG NUMBER, BUT WE'RE THERE AND WE DID IT EARLY.

WE SENT SIGNALS TO THE RATING AGENCIES THAT WERE DOING IT BETTER.

WE GOT MORE WORK TO DO, BUT THE DECISIONS WE MADE IN THE LAST BUDGET SENT THE RIGHT SIGNALS AND TO GET A BOND RATING INCREASE TO ME IS ONE OF THE MOST -- YOU KNOW, IT'S SO BORING TO OTHERS.

THAT'S ONE OF THE MOST EXCITING THINGS YOU COULD POSSIBLY TALK ABOUT TO ME BECAUSE MY BETTER MY BOND RATING THE LESS IT COSTS ME TO BORROW MONEY, I'M SAVING MONEY.

WE ALL SHOULD BE EXTREMELY PROUD, BOTH SIDES OF THE AISLE, THAT WE GOT THAT BOND RATING UPGRADE.

I WANT TO CONGRATULATE THE ADMINISTRATION BUT ALSO THE LEGISLATURE BECAUSE THE LEGISLATURE DROVE A BIG PART OF THAT.

>> YOU STILL THINK, THOUGH, AND I THINK YOU MENTIONED THIS BEFORE, THAT THE PUBLIC PENSION PROGRAM NEEDS REFORMING.

YOU THINK THAT THE STATE NEEDS TO NEGOTIATE A NEW DEAL THERE?

>> ABSOLUTELY.

AND, YOU KNOW SOMETHING, DAVID, THAT WILL DRIVE OUR PENSION RATING RATE -- I MEAN, OUR BOND RATING WAY UP.

>> YEAH.

>> ONCE WE SEND A SIGNAL THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH A PENSION FUND THAT IS REALLY NOT IN GREAT SHAPE.

AND, LOOK, WE'VE HAD A COUPLE GOOD YEARS LIKE WITH THE BOND MARKET -- NOT THE BOND MARKET BUT WITH THE MARKETS.

THAT'S NOT ALWAYS GOING TO BE.

NOW, THEY'VE MADE -- AGAIN, GIVE THE GOVERNOR CREDIT, WE GOT OUR ASSUMPTION RATE, WHAT WE ASSUME OUR INVESTMENTS IS AT 7%, ARE GOING TO BE AT 7%.

THAT'S MORE RELIABLE THAN THE 7.5 AND 7.75.

SO WE'RE ACTUALLY IN A GOOD PLACE FISCALLY, BUT WE NEED TO FIX THE PENSION.

AND WHAT I TELL PEOPLE IS THE WAY PENSIONS WORK, DAVID, IS SIMPLE.

THE NEW PEOPLE PAY FOR THE OLD PEOPLE ON RETIREMENT.

YOU KNOW, THE YOUNG PAY FOR THE OLD.

THAT'S IN EVERY PENSION.

AND WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO TELL SOMEONE WHEN THEY COME INTO WORK, MAKE THEM A PROMISE THAT THIS IS THAT PENSION THAT THEY'RE GOING TO GET AND THEY'RE ACTUALLY GOING TO GET IT WHEN THEY RETIRE.

BECAUSE WE MADE PROMISES BEFORE AND THEY PLAYED SO MANY GAMES WITH THE PENSION, THEY SCREWED IT UP.

YOU KNOW, IF WE MAKE CHANGES WE WILL BE ABLE TO REDUCE THAT PAYMENT FROM 6.8 OR WHATEVER.

SO, AGAIN, IT'S -- IT'S A SCALE THAT YOU HAVE TO BALANCE AND IF YOU BALANCE IT PROPERLY YOU DON'T HURT ANYONE, YOU HONOR YOUR COMMITMENTS TO EVERYONE THAT HAS IT COMING, IT'S JUST A NEW TEAM AND NEW DEAL.

>> ALL RIGHT.

STEVE SWEENEY, COMING TO A POLICY DEBATE NEAR YOU.

GOOD TO SEE YOU, SENATOR.

THANKS FOR COMING ON WITH US.

>> THANKS FOR HAVING ME AND I LOOK FORWARD TO SEEING YOU IN THE FUTURE WHEN WE START PRESENTING SOME THINGS SO YOU CAN PROMOTE THEM IF YOU THINK THEY MAKE SENSE.

>> THAT'S "CHAT BOX" FOR THIS WEEK.

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HAVE A GREAT WEEK.

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