The Cities with Jim Mertens
The Cities | Pandemic Economics | Covid-19 Vaccine Difficult
Season 11 Episode 10 | 27m 29sVideo has Closed Captions
The Cities | Pandemic Economics | Covid-19 Vaccine Difficulties
The Cities with Jim Mertens - Thomas Sadler, Western Illinois University Economics Professor joins Jim to discuss the health of our economy and his book "Pandemic Economics." Plus, Laura Kopp, President and CEO of CASI discusses issues facing seniors trying to get the COVID19 vaccine.
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
The Cities with Jim Mertens is a local public television program presented by WQPT PBS
The Cities is proudly funded by Wheelan-Pressly Funeral Home & Crematory.
The Cities with Jim Mertens
The Cities | Pandemic Economics | Covid-19 Vaccine Difficult
Season 11 Episode 10 | 27m 29sVideo has Closed Captions
The Cities with Jim Mertens - Thomas Sadler, Western Illinois University Economics Professor joins Jim to discuss the health of our economy and his book "Pandemic Economics." Plus, Laura Kopp, President and CEO of CASI discusses issues facing seniors trying to get the COVID19 vaccine.
Problems playing video? | Closed Captioning Feedback
How to Watch The Cities with Jim Mertens
The Cities with Jim Mertens is available to stream on pbs.org and the free PBS App, available on iPhone, Apple TV, Android TV, Android smartphones, Amazon Fire TV, Amazon Fire Tablet, Roku, Samsung Smart TV, and Vizio.
Providing Support for PBS.org
Learn Moreabout PBS online sponsorship- [Narrator] Wheelan Pressly Funeral Home and Crematory a proud supporter of WQPT, has been serving quad city families since 1889.
Now providing live stream capabilities for viewing your loved one's funeral or memorial service at their chapel in Rock Island.
- We'll be studying this pandemic for years and it starts in a Western Illinois University classroom.
And meeting the needs of those unable to get the COVID vaccine in The Cities.
(soft music) Getting the COVID vaccine to older citizens in Eastern Iowa and Western Illinois is proving more difficult than first thought.
One group that's trying to correct that tells us how seniors can get their shot easier.
That's still ahead.
But first when the pandemic first hit we worried about two things, our health and our jobs a Western Illinois University professor combined the two to look at the health of our economy.
His textbook "Pandemic Economics" looks at the macro and micro impact of this worldwide pandemic known as COVID-19.
Thomas Sadler joined me from Macomb.
You have been living in this pandemic, you and your students.
I mean, was this just kind of natural that you had to incorporate this into classwork?
- Yeah, absolutely.
There's no way around it because we talk about in our economics classes, we talk about recessions.
We talk about shocks to the economy.
And so there's no bigger shock to the economy than a global pandemic.
So it actually fit pretty well within the flow of our courses.
And so it was pretty clear that we would need to address this anyway in our courses that talk about the macro economy and talk about what happens when an economy slows down.
But it also became pretty clear that they would be a pretty interesting and compelling topic for its own class.
Which is what became pandemic economics.
- Well, you take a look at history and you just think of the great depression.
And then more recently you think of the great recession.
But like you said, there has never been anything like this if for no other reason, just the speed that it occurred.
- Yeah, that's right.
And what's different about this, especially compared to the great depression and the great recession that you mentioned, is that this was a deliberate recession.
That we remember back to March and April of last year of 2020.
That once it became clear that the virus was spread all throughout our country, we realized we need to start shutting things down.
Shutting aspects of the economy down, shutting businesses down.
And so this was a deliberate recession.
And so we deliberately sent people home from work and economic activity started to plunge at the same time.
And so this was a very different situation.
We had not experienced that.
Although some of the recessionary effects that we've been observing now for almost a year, do have parallels with these previous downturns like the great recession and the great depression.
- Has this really put managed economy, so to speak, to the test?
- Yes, yes, absolutely.
And so from the perspective of a lot of the things that we talk about in class.
We talk about things like economic policy and economic policy has been really important.
We saw a big fiscal stimulus package last year.
Where we were talking about the extension of unemployment benefits and stimulus checks that we received in the mail.
And there's more conversation about that right now, if we're gonna receive more checks in the mail from the federal government and unemployment insurance being extended.
So this has been a test of how to manage the economy in a period of time, not only when there's a downturn in economic activity, but the virus continues to spread.
So we're living in a world that's experiencing two crisis simultaneously.
And that's a really difficult environment for policy.
- Well and really unchartered territory in so many different ways.
Are you right that a trade off between public health and economic health led to widespread problems?
I want to talk about the problems in a moment but was there any other choice than the government's getting involved?
- No, I don't think so.
I don't think there was any other choice.
And so there's this interesting debate that's been going on among economists and policy makers about the extent to which a country should prioritize health first.
It's pretty clear that we don't want the virus to spread to the extent to which that it could, if it's left unchecked.
We want to limit the amount of people that suffer from the spread of the virus.
So it's pretty clear that we want to prioritize health early on.
However, when we're sheltering in place.
There are other problems that arise.
People become anxious.
People are isolated, the level of depression goes up.
And so these social costs start emerging at the same time.
And it becomes pretty clear that we've got a balance economic activity and public health.
And so we need to start figuring out ways, what we were thinking last year to open businesses back up.
And so here's where the balance between the economy and health started coming into play.
Because as soon as we started easing restrictions and people started going back to work, especially by the end of the summer and into the early fall last year.
We started seeing the cases rise again.
And so this became a really interesting trade-off that we have to face in terms of society as a whole.
How do we balance economic costs with public health benefits?
- The other thing it seems to me is that, when you think of economics, those of us who didn't study economics, and I apologize for that.
You just think of it as being numbers and kind of detached from the sociology part of our environment.
This really puts a face on economics.
- Yeah, absolutely.
So economics has to do with the incentives that are involved with our material existence, of course.
Having to do with our jobs and providing for families and that sort of thing.
So we talk about issues like that and trends like that within the field of economics.
But we've got to remember that there are people involved.
So when the recession gets worse that means the unemployment rate goes up.
And that means more people are out of work.
Those are all individuals.
And so then it's the case that if the government can step in and help it's individuals that are being helped.
At the same time in terms of public health, we've all experienced it.
We all know people who have been sick.
We've all known people who perhaps have lost their lives during the course of this pandemic.
So we've tried to put a face onto these crisis, these dual crises that are going on right now.
And I think that brings the field of economics to life.
When we can talk about how all these effects are impacting us on an individual basis and in terms of our communities as well.
- When it comes to this pandemic everybody dealt with it in a different way, and you actually took a look at it in a far reaching global way on other countries, how they handled it.
And let's be honest.
I mean, the pandemic hit countries in the level of severity in very different ways.
Plus other countries have different types of society or different types of government involvement in the economy.
Did you find rights and wrongs when it comes to the global look at how this pandemic affected the economy?
- Yeah, absolutely.
And I think these results have been coming out now for a little while.
It's been undertaken in many academic contexts.
So we've got lots of lists that we can take a look at.
It's at certain countries that have fared better than others.
One that comes to mind perhaps is New Zealand that we often see at the top of the list.
Well, New Zealand had some natural benefits 'cause it's an Island country.
So it was a little bit easier for them to close off their borders for people coming in.
So that helped slow down the spread of the virus at least from the outside.
And so they had to turn internally and figure out how to slow the spread of the virus there.
So that's one thing, geographical factors and how connected countries are with other countries.
But in another factor certainly that's come to mind is governance.
And so that's probably the most important thing that has set certain countries apart.
That there's a theory called crush and contain, which is kind of catchy.
It's got a catchy name to it, crush and contain.
So the countries that crushed the virus to the extent to which they could early on, and then when subsequent waves came infection waves came, they contained it.
So not only that people have to be on board with the plan.
People have to buy into collective action.
And so a lot of the countries that performed really well over the course of the last year judged by a decreasing number of cases where they're not struggling as much right now.
These are the countries that we're able to address the problem head-on, they had a lot of public buy-in at the same time and they managed to stay focused over time.
Now, no country has been perfect, but the question has been, what's the optimal mix of policies like sheltering in place and mask wearing and social distancing and quarantines and closing businesses.
What's the optimal method of going about doing these things?
And a lot of countries have done really well in balancing these competing objectives.
- And it seems like the countries, 'cause you pointed out a few.
The homogeneous governments or societies, when you think of New Zealand as you pointed out.
But you also think of Italy which was hit very early on.
Or you think of the Nordic countries Sweden and Finland that were doing very well.
And then they got a rash of the epidemic.
And then they had to change the way they were doing it.
Is the way that the society is structured somewhat easier when it comes to handling the economy, Vis-a-vis the United States which has such open borders and it's kind of an all for one at times, and then everyone's going their own way at other times?
- Absolutely public buy-in is very important.
You mentioned Sweden.
Sweden's an interesting case because early on, they didn't do all that much to slow the spread of the virus.
Their mentality is that they wanted to move as quickly as they could to what's called herd immunity, when the majority of the population is immune to the virus.
But they did have to pull back.
Because they were having a very hard time with that.
So that's kind of a one end of the spectrum that idea.
At the end of the other end of the spectrum, China, of course, most famously where the virus originated and they were struggling early but they contained it pretty early on as well.
And they're not in the top 10 of countries right now in terms of the number of confirmed cases.
Even though they have the highest population in the world.
And a lot of that has to do with public buy-in, they're also much more authoritarian than we are.
And so their system mirror is not going to work here.
And so it's a combination of having a very clear vision having full information, conveying that information to the public and then having public buy-in.
One thing that's interesting about the United States is that a lot of these decisions were decentralized.
As we know, that it was left up to the States and has been over the course of the last year or so, in terms of figuring out what to do, going through the stages when things are open, when things are closed, including businesses, including schools.
And so essentially we've had 50 different methods in the United States of addressing this pandemic and also addressing the economic collapse.
So over time this is gonna make for some great opportunities for research.
'Cause we're gonna be able to evaluate which States have done better than others.
So it has to do with policy and it has to do with public buy-in from the people in terms of what they wanted to do as well.
- Now, of course, this is a textbook that you wrote.
It doesn't have all the answers but it is designed to ask the big questions to your students.
What are the big questions we should be asking right now?
- That's a really good question.
So this textbook, I'm glad you brought it up.
It's called "Pandemic Economics" and it's in production right now.
And so the date of publication here is next month is March of 2021.
So it should be out pretty soon.
A lot of questions.
So the pandemic phase includes the shutdown and then the recession and then economic recovery which will eventually come.
That always comes after recession.
So one question is what's the optimal level of shutdown?
So we've talked a little bit about the balance between health and the economy.
Well, we wanna preserve human life.
We wanna crush and contain the virus as much as we possibly can, but we also at the same time can't put everybody out of work.
Or if we do send people home we've got to support them, in terms of public policy.
We've gotta have income assistance.
So what's the optimal balance between health and economic activity.
So that's with the shutdown then with the second interval with the recession.
How long should we be happy with the decline in economic activity?
That's a very painful thing for the country to go through.
As we've known now, as we experienced in the great recession in 2008 and 2009.
This is not an experience that we enjoy.
We don't like it to happen for a long period of time.
So at some point soon we wanna start propping the economy back up.
We wanna start stimulating the economy.
And what extent should that happen over time?
And then also in terms of economic recovery, what's that gonna look like over time?
Because that's intertwined with business activity, it's intertwined with us going back to restaurants going back out and spending our money.
That's intertwined with schools opening up.
And so how does a process of economic recovery unfold as well?
So the book talks about that along with many other topics there are many other topics addressed.
And so it's kind of a first attempt from an economics perspective to analyze what the pandemic is gonna look like.
- And it's certainly not the final chapter is what you're saying, because like you said.
I mean the future is gonna be very interesting based on what has happened over the last 12 months.
- Absolutely.
And I think, hopefully by the fall of this year or maybe early next year when this pandemic is over.
And we can identify the fact that economic recovery is underway.
Then we'll be able to start comparing this pandemic phase to previous major recessions like the great recession and the great depression.
And that's gonna be pretty interesting to evaluate it, just in terms of a downturn in economic activity, that's always important.
But the length of the recession that's gonna be important as well.
How many people were put on of work?
How long did it take for these people to get their jobs back?
And so these are really big, important questions and we can't answer those now.
So it sounds like that's a good idea for a second edition in about two or three years.
- Thomas Sadler, Western Illinois University economics professor and author of the new textbook "Pandemic Economics".
We're halfway through February.
And hopefully the harshest of the winter weather is now behind us.
Lora Adams has been busy looking for things you might consider doing.
If you plan to go out and about.
- [Lora] This is out and about through March 2nd.
Join part two of Junior Achievements trivialBowl March 9th at 5:30 PM.
Or celebrate the opening of the highly anticipated exhibition for America, February 18th at 6:30 PM via zoom at the Putnam Museum.
WPPT and the Moline Public Library hosts the black church.
This is my story, this is my song.
A PBS documentary screening and discussion February 19th at noon.
Also February 21st at 3:00 PM, hosted by St. Ambrose.
The Mississippi Valley fairgrounds host Friday Night Fright Fest featuring Shawn West vs. Steven Edwards, February 19th at 6:30 PM.
Plus the Midwest Motorsports Auction takes place there February 26th and 27th from 4-10.
Onstage Two Rooms by Lee Blessing.
The story of married American educators working in Lebanon during the mid 1980s.
February 19th through 21st at St. Ambrose University.
Or join Tomfoolery on Tremont with Rebecca Gibson, two showings at seven and 9:30 PM.
The 27th at Renwick Mansion in Davenport.
Check out circuit 21 two virtual shows.
Let's do it, Let's fall in love through the 21st.
And Big Rock Candy Mountain where a merry band of misfits sneak into a theater hoping to stay out of trouble.
Available through March 1st.
For more information, visit wqpt.org.
- [Narrator] The quad cities is all in this together.
We take care of one another 'cause that's who we are.
So mask up, wash your hands, stay informed and continue to support our QC businesses.
We rally together while staying apart.
So that in time we can get back to the very best version of the Quad Cities.
- The rollout of the COVID 19 vaccine been difficult for many people.
But perhaps most affected have been the seniors who do not have direct access to computers or even cell phones.
So much of the early registration process has required going online.
But that's now changing.
We've talked with Laura Kopp, the President and Chief Executive Officer of CASI, the Center for Active Seniors.
About new efforts to reach everyone eligible for a COVID-19 vaccination.
- A huge shout out to the Scott County Health Department in recognizing that there was going to be a very vulnerable high risk group of seniors that might not be able to navigate an online only registration process.
And for reaching out to CASI.
For over 50 years CASI has been the Scott County, Quad Cities, the Iowa Quad Cities, primary resource for older adults.
This is where they go to find information.
And so it was a great partnership from the beginning.
And CASI was uniquely positioned to reach out to older adults that were really high risk of not receiving the vaccine, not maybe having access to information or technology.
So we feel like we're uniquely positioned as the community's only comprehensive senior center to help those seniors navigate this virtual world, this virtual reality, if you will.
And to help them access this lifesaving vaccination.
- Now there's a group called Alternatives, that is in Rock Island County that we'll be dealing with Rock Island County cases in the coming week.
You're already in the process.
As far as Scott County is concerned.
You've been overwhelmed, I know that, from so many people who have contacted you.
I mean is your system able to handle this huge influx of people?
- So far so good.
We've been in contact with the company that runs our phone system.
They've been really great and helping us to manage call volume and to expand our capabilities as much as we can.
I think there's been some confusion out there that because people maybe got a busy signal or a voicemail box was full, that maybe they thought that our system was down.
Our system never went down.
Our system managed just fine.
We just had that much volume.
So we have folks that are working our phones, every day five days a week, 8:00 AM through 5:00 PM.
But for every call that they're taking and they take their time to speak with our seniors and to make sure they're giving them good advice and good information and helping them to the best of their abilities.
For every one of those calls, there's probably four others that are coming in at the same time.
And I can tell you that first day that we announced our partnership with the health department.
We had so many calls coming in that we had no free lines to make calls out.
So staff was using their own personal cell phones to make those calls but our system is working just fine.
I think we just want folks to know that there has been an overwhelming response that we are so proud to meet that response.
Just be patient as we give you an opportunity to leave a message.
And for us to get back to you - When you're on the front line, being patient is easier said than done.
I mean, you've heard stories from people who haven't seen their grandkids for a year.
It's heartbreaking how desperate some people are for this vaccine.
It's almost cruel to the point that there's so little vaccine out there for these people who so desperately want it.
- It does, it does feel that way.
And I think in addition to that, Jim.
I think for older adults, so folks that really are not comfortable with finding information online.
When so much of that information is exclusively online or they don't know where to find it.
I think for those folks there's a perception that the vaccine is out there.
They just have to find it.
And they feel at a disadvantage because maybe they're not as technology savvy they feel as if they were just fast enough or smart enough or technology savvy enough they would be able to find it.
So there's almost this panic of feeling, I'm ill-equipped to find where I need to go.
And they feel as if they're missing out on an opportunity that really isn't there yet.
We just don't have enough vaccine to meet the need.
We have over 27,000 residents in Scott County alone that are over the age of 65 which is the eligibility age frame.
And there were 500 doses for that first community vaccination clinic.
So there is a paltry amount to serve the population that is here in Scott County alone.
And I realized that it's easier said than done to have patience.
But I hope what we're doing with taking a wait list and managing communication a little bit more effectively.
Where we can communicate with 2,000 older adults all at one time to let them know what's going on.
And that if you are on our list, we will be getting to you and we will be helping you to access that vaccination.
I hope that that's at least in some small part helping to alleviate some of that anxiety.
And feeling as if maybe someone has their needs in hand.
- I think you're right about this.
There's so many people who are willing to stand in line.
They just wanna know where the line is.
And that's, what's so difficult.
You've got Quayside in Scott County, you got Alternatives in Rock Island County.
You've got a Unity Point.
You've got a Genesis Health.
You've got Community Health, all of these organizations trying to make sure that people do get the vaccination.
Are you confident that whatever it's called whether you call it a group 1B, or if you just say seniors or people who are most at risk.
Are you confident they're going to get their shots?
- I absolutely am.
I absolutely am.
We are in constant contact with the Scott County Health Department and we work very closely every other day of the year, not just now but every other day of the year.
We work very closely with our health system partners.
And the conversations that we've been having and the responses that I've been getting this week as we've been reaching out to older adults to help get them set up with a vaccination appointment.
2/3 of the people that I have called that were earlier on in our wait list have already received their first vaccination.
2/3 of the people that I called yesterday said I already received my first shot.
My doctor called me.
I was able to get it through Walgreens.
I was able to access it somewhere else.
And so that's what we want.
That doesn't bother us at all.
If we call someone on our list and they've already had it, we thank them.
We wish them the best of luck.
And then we move on to the next person on our list.
'Cause I think everyone who's at that table really just wants to ensure that seniors have access as quickly as possible.
99% of the deaths in Iowa have been individuals over the age of 55.
So it is not lost on any of us that are sitting at that table, how strategically at risk that group is and how targeted that group is with this virus.
So I do, I have total confidence in what we're doing.
- When you think of CASI, you think of their building on Kimberly road, you kind of think of them meeting place.
You also think of the fact that seniors can easily become very isolated.
I know that's one of the prime missions that you have is to get people interconnected.
Seniors interconnected.
This pandemic has done the absolute opposite.
And don't you have a feeling that seniors are perhaps more isolated than they've ever been before?
- Well, absolutely.
We have an absolute mental health crisis when it comes to older adults.
Many of the older adults that we're talking to have not left their house since last March.
And that is no joke that is not left to the confines of the four walls of their domiciles because they are too afraid to go out.
They know that they are high risk if they are over the age of 65.
And so we've heard a lot of stories from folks as we've been making these phone calls, of how truly isolated they are and how grateful they are.
We do monthly or bi-monthly calls to our membership just to reach out and let them know that we're thinking about them.
If they have any needs, our senior advocacy program is still running.
And one of the things that I heard repeatedly yesterday, was how much they look forward to even just that prerecorded phone call that I send out once a month, because it's a voice they recognize.
And they feel as if someone is calling and checking on them.
And it's a voice from the outside.
And it just really resonated with me how very lonely and isolated this population is.
So, yes, absolutely.
I think we have a mental health crisis on our hands.
For this older population that really struggles with having those meaningful connections.
And you're right CASI, one of CASI key pillars is socialization and we've not been able to do that, since last March.
- Our thanks to Laura Kopp President and Chief Executive Officer of CASI in Davenport.
On the air, on the radio, on the web on your mobile device and streaming on your computer.
Thanks for taking some time to join us.
As we talk about the issues on The Cities.
(soft music) - [Narrator] Wheelan Pressly Funeral Home and Crematory a proud supporter of WQPT, has been serving quad city families since 1889.
Now providing livestream capabilities for viewing your loved one's funeral or memorial service at their chapel in Rock Island.

- News and Public Affairs

Top journalists deliver compelling original analysis of the hour's headlines.

- News and Public Affairs

FRONTLINE is investigative journalism that questions, explains and changes our world.












Support for PBS provided by:
The Cities with Jim Mertens is a local public television program presented by WQPT PBS
The Cities is proudly funded by Wheelan-Pressly Funeral Home & Crematory.